Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realisted. Is now secret that we are all cinephiles.
Speaker 1: We have different actually we have three very different complimentary
Speaker 1: backgrounds in the world of film and fiction. And Paul
Speaker 1: as well. Paul is a noted filmmaker who just classes
Speaker 1: up this show with us. And when we talk about
Speaker 1: the world of film. Even if you were just a
Speaker 1: casual person, you know you watch popcorn flicks or whatever,
Speaker 1: everybody knows Stanley Kubrick. He is so accomplished, He is
Speaker 1: such a luminary that he himself is the basis of
Speaker 1: not one, but multiple conspiracy theories. Right, he faked the
Speaker 1: moon landing, he predicted the future, and the shining or
Speaker 1: the shining is about the moon landing? Right? What else?
Speaker 1: Those are the big ones?
Speaker 2: How are you going to go out with eyes Wide
Speaker 2: shut as your last movie? My god?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's the most like Illuminati movie of all
Speaker 3: time ever. Yeah, a little bit non or some naughty
Speaker 3: bits in that one too. Kubrick is neat because he's
Speaker 3: not what you'd exactly call prolific. He has a very
Speaker 3: finite body of work and each one of them, banger
Speaker 3: after bang, are very different, and yet somehow with the
Speaker 3: signature kind of style.
Speaker 2: But he's just really is just the detail. It's the detail,
Speaker 2: the detail in every single thing that you see.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, how he would go out and make little
Speaker 1: models to figure to figure out the correct lighting for things.
Speaker 1: That's that's that's and I love what you're pointing out there,
Speaker 1: the quality over quantity argument. I mean, before we get rolling,
Speaker 1: just I've never asked you guys, what, in your opinion,
Speaker 1: are are Kubrick's lesser known films that people should check
Speaker 1: out his older ones.
Speaker 3: I think The Killing is really great. It's a black
Speaker 3: and white film from I believe the sixties early sixties,
Speaker 3: and it very much is a similar kind of unreliable,
Speaker 3: out of order story as like Reservoir Dogs.
Speaker 4: I would I think I've read The Tarantine.
Speaker 3: I was really into The Killing, but it's like a
Speaker 3: heist movie, and a lot of people don't know that one.
Speaker 4: I think it's excellent.
Speaker 2: Confession, I've never seen that movie, but it's on my list.
Speaker 4: It's very same.
Speaker 1: I don't think i've I don't think i've seen it either,
Speaker 1: but I do. You know what that reminds me of
Speaker 1: when to talk about nonlinear nonlinear filmmaking. The first time
Speaker 1: I saw The Godfather Parts one and two. I'm going
Speaker 1: to date myself. I got it from a videotape rental
Speaker 1: place because there were three tapes.
Speaker 4: It was three tapes, I believe it was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a lot of tapes. But here's here's
Speaker 1: the deal. I watched it by myself. Was the first
Speaker 1: time I'd ever seen it. I was pretty I was
Speaker 1: pretty young, but old enough to know better. Someone had
Speaker 1: put the tapes in the wrong order and the containers
Speaker 1: and I was so I was watching it out of
Speaker 1: order as I see. Yeah, I was like, this is crazy.
Speaker 2: Well, and the time the storytelling in that moves in
Speaker 2: and out of time as well. So yes, I can't
Speaker 2: imagine you.
Speaker 3: Could have been easily convinced that you were doing the
Speaker 3: right thing that you wouldn't have like stopped and known
Speaker 3: something was a miss, but it was.
Speaker 1: It was Godfather one and two. Just watched it all
Speaker 1: straight through it. I'm like, why does Robert de Niro
Speaker 1: keep showing up and then disappearing? Oh?
Speaker 3: You you were watching parts of two intermingled with parts
Speaker 3: of one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I got part two. That's even crazy tapes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, obviously you know Coppola, another incredible luminary,
Speaker 3: known for an excellent war movie, Apocalypse Now. Kubrick also
Speaker 3: one of the top contenders for a movie about the
Speaker 3: Vietnam War ever made Full Metal Jacket. Yeah, honestly. But
Speaker 3: to your point, Ben, there is you know, he's famous
Speaker 3: for his fastidiousness.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: Shelley Devall famously was forced to do that scene walking
Speaker 3: up the stairs with the baseball bat and the shining
Speaker 3: like one hundred and twenty times. I think it made
Speaker 3: the Guinness Booke Award records for the most takes and
Speaker 3: I was like, where are those other takes? He apparently
Speaker 3: burns them right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we wanted to I remember we talked about
Speaker 1: this past way and.
Speaker 4: To see these.
Speaker 1: But be that as it me. Despite the fact that
Speaker 1: he has a finite body of work, Stanley Kubrick has
Speaker 1: a continuing and indeed evolving legacy in the world of
Speaker 1: conspiratorial thoughts.
Speaker 4: Dare we say mythology.
Speaker 5: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 5: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 5: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt Been
Speaker 2: married nine years, Frederick.
Speaker 3: Hey, congratulations, Matt, been married nine years, Frederick.
Speaker 4: My name's Noel. Been divorced for a couple of years Brown.
Speaker 1: Yes, congratulations, Matt been married nine years, Frederick. They call
Speaker 1: me Ben. Our super producer Paul one Take Decandi is
Speaker 1: away on adventures, but we are joined with our super producer,
Speaker 1: Casey Pegram, who you may recognize from several other shows
Speaker 1: here at How Stuff Works.
Speaker 6: Hey, guys, thanks for having me in today.
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on the show, Casey. Most importantly, if
Speaker 1: you're listening to this, that means you are you, you
Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff They don't want
Speaker 1: you to know.
Speaker 4: It really is Matt's ninth anniversary.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. That's really funny for this. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not while you're listening, but while we are listening
Speaker 2: to ourselves.
Speaker 1: Unless this episode somehow comes out on the same day
Speaker 1: we record it, which usually doesn't happen unless quick peek
Speaker 1: behind this curtain. We got something wrong. But yes, massive
Speaker 1: congratulations Matt. A lot of people may not know that
Speaker 1: you and Casey have worked together extensively in the past
Speaker 1: in the film world.
Speaker 2: Right, that's right. We owned a company together for a
Speaker 2: while there he shot my wedding. We made numerous projects together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, shout out to Bright Elephant.
Speaker 2: Oh dear, oh.
Speaker 1: No, Now people will know what to search on Google.
Speaker 1: There might be some stuff on Google.
Speaker 6: I don't know. I think the website is no no longer.
Speaker 4: He shot up your wedding, and you guys are still
Speaker 4: he did.
Speaker 2: But it was it was like celebratory style in the airport.
Speaker 1: It was like a wedding. It was I think it
Speaker 1: was a bank heist wedding.
Speaker 4: Yeah, one of those.
Speaker 1: And how cinematic would that be? Speaking of amazing segues, guys,
Speaker 1: we're finally getting to an episode that a lot of
Speaker 1: you have asked us about in the past. I mean,
Speaker 1: for years, we're all film buffs here at the studio,
Speaker 1: and like many of you, we spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time kicking around theories and discussing the implications of various
Speaker 1: works as well as there are greater influences on later
Speaker 1: films and filmmakers. Today, we are diving into one of
Speaker 1: the most well known conspiracies in the world of and
Speaker 1: to do this justice we have to begin with a
Speaker 1: single man. His name is Stanley Kubrick.
Speaker 3: Old stan the Man Kubrick was born on July the
Speaker 3: twenty sixth of the year nineteen and twenty eight in
Speaker 3: the Bronx. You guys ever been to the Bronx.
Speaker 1: Yes, I have never been there often.
Speaker 4: Oh wait, we went to the Bronx once.
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, we were briefly there on that one.
Speaker 4: Day the hidden buildings. Yeah yeah, yeah, that's not such
Speaker 4: a secret anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 3: His dad was a physician and his mother a housewife.
Speaker 3: And he was a bad bad boy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was notoriously bad at school. In elementary school,
Speaker 1: he had about as many absences as he did attendance days.
Speaker 1: He was an outcast once he got to high school.
Speaker 1: He later claimed, I never learned anything at school, and
Speaker 1: I never read a book for pleasure until I was nineteen.
Speaker 1: But when he did, he caught the bug. And originally
Speaker 1: he wanted to either play baseball or be a writer.
Speaker 1: Imagine how different the world would be if we were
Speaker 1: talking about Stanley.
Speaker 2: Kubrick, the third baseman.
Speaker 1: The third baseman, right, And he did have one shining
Speaker 1: aspect or moment in high school. It wasn't all rainy,
Speaker 1: gray days and sad songs on the radio. He turned
Speaker 1: out to be a promising photographer, which I think happens
Speaker 1: with a lot of people who later go on to
Speaker 1: become directors, Right, They start off with still photography and
Speaker 1: they have a gift for it.
Speaker 4: Do we talk about why Casey's on the show today.
Speaker 1: Because it all's not here?
Speaker 4: Well, no, but he's.
Speaker 3: Also I mean, come on, guys, Casey's like a film
Speaker 3: for Sionado.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. We went to film school together at Georgia
Speaker 2: State University and Casey was in several of my classes
Speaker 2: and he always knew more than the professors, and he
Speaker 2: would never admit to that, but he did.
Speaker 1: Casey has an encyclopedia knowledge of film lore.
Speaker 4: So Casey Kober. He shot a lot of stuff early
Speaker 4: on for was it Look Magazine?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Look Magazine? And yeah he was.
Speaker 6: He was quite the accomplished kind of photo journalist, even
Speaker 6: right from the start. And yeah, I mean obviously the
Speaker 6: everything that he learned and technically about still photography also
Speaker 6: tends to apply to filmmaking. So he kind of got
Speaker 6: in early that way.
Speaker 1: So the point holds, right, Is that something we see
Speaker 1: with other directors as well, Casey?
Speaker 6: Yeah, certain directors, you know, every director is different. Some
Speaker 6: have more of like a theater kind of background. Or
Speaker 6: a writer background, but definitely the ones that are like
Speaker 6: more hands on with the camera and tend to think
Speaker 6: more in terms of images. Photography is like a great,
Speaker 6: great way to get into filmmaking.
Speaker 1: So he started on this path early. Right age sixteen,
Speaker 1: he's selling photos to Look, and the next year, by
Speaker 1: the time he's seventeen, they hired him full time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I was just gonna say, it's obviously a
Speaker 3: great way to kind of establish your meis enceinn you know,
Speaker 3: where you kind of figure out how to frame things
Speaker 3: and what No, you know, you figure out you know
Speaker 3: you're framing and do it with still photography. You can
Speaker 3: certainly apply that to moving images as well. Absolutely, in
Speaker 3: the way you place objects in the frame.
Speaker 2: Oh, most certainly.
Speaker 1: And we have a little bit of a romanticized picture
Speaker 1: of his early life because when he wasn't traveling for
Speaker 1: Look as a photographer, he spent most nights at the
Speaker 1: Museum of Modern Art or.
Speaker 2: MoMA, Yeah, or at a park playing chess.
Speaker 1: He did that a lot, and that that seems really cool.
Speaker 1: That's way more productive than a lot of things that
Speaker 1: the average person would do in the evening. Unfortunately, he
Speaker 1: was rejected from every college he applied to every single
Speaker 1: one full stop.
Speaker 4: Because he was a bad boy. He probably didn't have
Speaker 4: the transcripts needed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he probably just didn't have the grades. But it
Speaker 1: seemed like he wasn't a huge proponent of organized education
Speaker 1: to begin with. However, he did not waste time. The
Speaker 1: time he would have spent in college, he spent working
Speaker 1: on documentary shorts financed by friends and family. These were
Speaker 1: some of his early works.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he thought he could make a good deal
Speaker 2: of money making these types of things because there was
Speaker 2: another company and Casey, I don't know if you know this,
Speaker 2: but or I don't know if you do have the
Speaker 2: answer to this question, but there was some company that
Speaker 2: was supposedly selling documentary shorts for fifty thousand dollars something
Speaker 2: in say, forty thousand dollars at the time, and he thought, well,
Speaker 2: I can do that. I can sell those and make
Speaker 2: a ton of money. I'll spend ten thousand dollars, make
Speaker 2: thirty thousand dollars or something like that, only to find out, oh,
Speaker 2: oh no, you can't sell a documentary short for that
Speaker 2: much money.
Speaker 1: That's interesting.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know the name of that company, but Kubrick,
Speaker 6: you know, later on in his filmmaking career, was always
Speaker 6: kind of a very very active producer on his films,
Speaker 6: and he controlled the budgets very very metigulously, and it
Speaker 6: was all with an eye towards being able to have
Speaker 6: the time to do the films the way he wanted
Speaker 6: them and never have that pressure to just have to
Speaker 6: get the shot and move on. So he learned very
Speaker 6: very early on that you have to control the money
Speaker 6: in filmmaking, and that's what's going to allow you to
Speaker 6: get that perfect shot every time.
Speaker 1: You know. That's that's a really good point, because that's
Speaker 1: something a lot of directors when they're first starting out
Speaker 1: get wrong, right, that you have to do the unfund
Speaker 1: stuff as well as the creative stuff. Kubrick's first feature
Speaker 1: was this military drama called Fear and Desire, came out
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty three. Oddly enough, he made it without
Speaker 1: the help of a studio. To your point, Casey, he
Speaker 1: was somewhat of a one man band who is multitasking,
Speaker 1: not just with the budget, not just directing, but also editing,
Speaker 1: working sound, doing cinematography, doing things ordinarily would be a
Speaker 1: group of people's individual jobs.
Speaker 3: He would also shoot physically. You know with the camera.
Speaker 3: He didn't like have a cinematographer. He was that guy.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean in later films he did work with cinematographers,
Speaker 6: but even then it was kind of understood that the
Speaker 6: cinematographer was like his backup in a way, like if
Speaker 6: the cinematographer was not there for some reason, Cooper could
Speaker 6: obviously step in and do it just as well. There's
Speaker 6: an anecdote when he's making his first semi commercial feature
Speaker 6: where he was working with a very well respected cinematographer
Speaker 6: and Kubrick told him the lens he wanted and where
Speaker 6: he wanted to put the track. He was going to
Speaker 6: do a dolly shot, and the cinematographer had a different
Speaker 6: idea about how to do the shot, maybe something a
Speaker 6: little more conventional, And so he put the tracks somewhere
Speaker 6: else and he put on the lens he felt like
Speaker 6: putting on, and Kubrick, you know, caught it right away
Speaker 6: and said, I didn't tell you to put the dolly there.
Speaker 6: I didn't tell you to put the track there. I
Speaker 6: didn't tell you to put the lens on. So do
Speaker 6: what I said, or you know, you're you're fired off
Speaker 6: this film. And from then on I think that cinematographer
Speaker 6: knew he could not like pull a fast one on Kubrick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he's paid meticulous attention to detail, right, And
Speaker 1: it's something that shows in his filmography. We know from
Speaker 1: fifty seven nineteen fifty seven, just in case we came
Speaker 1: on glued. From time there to nineteen ninety nine, he
Speaker 1: made numerous feature films I believe ten, and these include
Speaker 1: some of the greatest hits, right, Spartacus in nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty two, which I do have to say,
Speaker 1: despite the premise, is a fantastic book by Nabokov.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you liked it.
Speaker 1: Did you read it?
Speaker 2: I read some of it. I watched some versions the
Speaker 2: versions of it. Is there only one version.
Speaker 6: Of there's like a jam Iron Yeah, yeah, Adrian Line
Speaker 6: version that was like in the nineties or something.
Speaker 1: It has one of my favorite depictions of a death scene,
Speaker 1: at least the novel.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: In the first page, and there's a little bit of
Speaker 1: a spoiler. The narrator is super unreliable and a terrible
Speaker 1: person is talking about how his mother passed away, and
Speaker 1: all you learn is there's this parenthetical where it's just
Speaker 1: like Picnic Comma Lightning and then it moves on. It's
Speaker 1: one of my favorite death scenes.
Speaker 3: He also has one of the best and most redundant
Speaker 3: names in literature, Humbred Humbered.
Speaker 1: I enjoy quite a lot and this socide, like Lolita,
Speaker 1: is a very controversial story, and it's got some hugely
Speaker 1: problematic things, but Kubrick never never hesitated. I guess to
Speaker 1: address controversial themes like Doctor Strangelove or how I learned
Speaker 1: to stop worrying and love the bomb which made nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty four. That's predictably something that we dig, right, yea,
Speaker 1: and I went back as we research. I'm sure. I'm
Speaker 1: sure you guys did too, to look at some great
Speaker 1: clips from that one. In particular, you watch the Nuke
Speaker 1: of course, of course I have dreams about that.
Speaker 4: Slim Pickens, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you gotta go, what a way? What
Speaker 1: a way to go?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd be pretty cooling on WHATLD feel like.
Speaker 3: You'd probably just get vaporized instantly, Yeah, only after the
Speaker 3: high of writing the thing.
Speaker 1: I guess eventually you pass out, though first, wouldn't you.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess it depends on the elevation
Speaker 1: terminal velocity thing.
Speaker 4: That's true point. He also probably wouldn't be able to
Speaker 4: hold onto the thing with your legs like that.
Speaker 1: I mean that guy fall from. That guy was definitely
Speaker 1: easy to thigh master of some sort. He had, you
Speaker 1: know what he had, h what's a good phrase? He
Speaker 1: had saddle ride in thighs. Mmmm, this is getting weird.
Speaker 6: The hustlin Pickens was was unaware that movie was a comedy.
Speaker 6: Oh really, And he was, you know, he's kind of
Speaker 6: known for being like a player in westerns and stuff.
Speaker 1: And he loved the story.
Speaker 6: And I think he had more of like a sincere
Speaker 6: interpretation of it, and in Kubrick did not disabuse him
Speaker 6: of that notion.
Speaker 3: So and yet he rode the nuke yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: waving his hat around the circles, going yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't think that was he was all about it.
Speaker 1: I thought that was sincere. In nineteen sixty eight, Stanley
Speaker 1: Kubrick releases what remains one of his most popular films,
Speaker 1: two thousand and one, A Space Odyssey. On a side
Speaker 1: note here, the first manned moon landing, according to the
Speaker 1: official story, occurred on July twentieth, nineteen sixty eight, which
Speaker 1: will be importantly.
Speaker 2: A mere hours after the Chapiquitic incident.
Speaker 1: Oh really interesting.
Speaker 2: True.
Speaker 3: And in case anyone was interested and wants some spoilers
Speaker 3: for the relatively un spoilable ending of two thousand and
Speaker 3: one in Space Odyssey, there is an interview that surfaced
Speaker 3: recently where Kubrick kind of goes beat by beat about
Speaker 3: what that ending is supposed to mean.
Speaker 4: Something that he typically did not do.
Speaker 3: But this was like for I think Japanese television, and
Speaker 3: it was something that never really made it over here
Speaker 3: until very recently, but it's worth checking out if you
Speaker 3: want to go over to Esquire and here Stanley Kubrick
Speaker 3: explained the two thousand and.
Speaker 4: One Space out of the ending in a rare unearthed video.
Speaker 4: That's the name of the article.
Speaker 1: Which we should post on Here's where it gets crazy, Yeah, definitely,
Speaker 1: which is our Facebook community page, hang out with Us.
Speaker 1: He has other works, of course, a clockwork Orange Barry
Speaker 1: Lyndon the Shining, a personal favorite of mind full Metal Jacket.
Speaker 1: And while he's making these amazing iconic works of film,
Speaker 1: he is also, of course kind of living a life
Speaker 1: outside of his job, but only kind of. He's married
Speaker 1: three times. He has three daughters in the early nineteen sixties,
Speaker 1: he moves to the UK and begins to build a
Speaker 1: reputation as a close almost JD. Salinger level, but maybe
Speaker 1: not quite. He avoids interviews, There barely any photographs of him,
Speaker 1: none of them are formal, and he spends little time
Speaker 1: outside of the studio.
Speaker 4: He looks like you would picture a typical hermit.
Speaker 1: Might look, yeah, a beard.
Speaker 4: Beard, kind of shaggy on kempt hare.
Speaker 2: And it should be noted that he takes huge breaks
Speaker 2: in between feature films as the years kind of go by,
Speaker 2: and his last like four films I want to say
Speaker 2: three or four film.
Speaker 4: Aura, So yeah, Terrence Malick.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it takes him a long time between projects. And
Speaker 6: there is more history there of other films he tried
Speaker 6: to get off the ground and for one reason or
Speaker 6: another it didn't end up happening, or he decided he
Speaker 6: didn't want to make. Probably the biggest one is Napoleon
Speaker 6: that he was going to do, I think after two
Speaker 6: thousand and one, and he spent years and years kind
Speaker 6: of creating this like day by day account of Napoleon's life.
Speaker 6: He had this whole like index card catalog system of
Speaker 6: where Napoleon was on like every single day of his life,
Speaker 6: just about wow. And he made you know, he put
Speaker 6: years of his life into it. And ultimately there was
Speaker 6: other Napoleon movies that came out in the same period
Speaker 6: that did not perform well at the box office, and
Speaker 6: he couldn't get it made after that.
Speaker 4: You know, I've never seen a Napoleon movie. Have you
Speaker 4: guys seen a Napoleon movie.
Speaker 1: I've seen Bill and Ted. Yeah, but you'd.
Speaker 3: Think that, you know, maybe he's just an unsympathetic character.
Speaker 3: She's very well, okay, that must be a but no,
Speaker 3: but casey to your point. So with this whole methodical
Speaker 3: card catalog system, probably a bit of a neurotic, a
Speaker 3: little bit of a stickler obsessive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there was a sweet thing I found in
Speaker 1: the research. While he was living in the UK and
Speaker 1: becoming increasingly reclusive, his sister would tape football and baseball
Speaker 1: games for some of his favorite teams, like the New
Speaker 1: York Giants, and she would send him to She would
Speaker 1: send these to him in the mail, so he still
Speaker 1: had that human connection. Stanley Kubrick dies in his sleep
Speaker 1: on March seventh, nineteen ninety nine, mere hours after delivering
Speaker 1: a pri of eyes Wide Shut, and this would become
Speaker 1: his last film. But it's where our story really begins,
Speaker 1: and we'll get to it after a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1: We're back. So these are just the brief highlights, very
Speaker 1: brief highlights, as it were, of Kubrick's life and times,
Speaker 1: and there's much much more to his story off screen.
Speaker 1: In fact, even in the on screen stuff. Entire volumes
Speaker 1: of literature have been dedicated to the story behind a
Speaker 1: single Kubrick film, like Full Metal Jacket or The Shining
Speaker 1: or Eyes or two thousand oh yeah, especially or Eyes
Speaker 1: Wide Shut.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I always felt like that movie was secretly, not so
Speaker 3: secretly about the illuminati.
Speaker 4: You did a kind of.
Speaker 1: A there's a surprising amount of fringe journalists and researchers
Speaker 1: who believe that A. Well, they tend to agree with
Speaker 1: your point, Noel. They believe that his most influential work
Speaker 1: has little or nothing to do with what the public
Speaker 1: perceives is his of wooll of.
Speaker 2: I what the hell is that?
Speaker 1: It's your body of work?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's your tight, tight body of work.
Speaker 2: Well, well, can we really fast just casey? I think
Speaker 2: one of the reasons, just before we get into all this,
Speaker 2: one of the reasons that people feel that way is because, uh,
Speaker 2: he dealt a lot with visual symbols, symbology, things that
Speaker 2: represented other things that would be in a shot or
Speaker 2: the shot would be a certain way to speak beyond
Speaker 2: just what is occurring, what you're seeing on screen, or
Speaker 2: what's what you're hearing.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think Kubrick, again going
Speaker 6: back to kind of his his origins and still photography,
Speaker 6: was was all about the image and composition and symbology
Speaker 6: and kind of going into the deeper layers of story telling,
Speaker 6: you know, Joseph Campbell, Carl Jung, that kind of stuff,
Speaker 6: the idea of archetypes and these kind of like primal
Speaker 6: tendencies in narratives and and things that recur in stories
Speaker 6: over and over throughout you know time. So he was
Speaker 6: kind of tapped into a lot of that.
Speaker 1: I think we've said up before, got to say it again.
Speaker 1: There's an excellent article by Cormack McCarthy that addresses this
Speaker 1: concept of symbol as communication beyond articulated language. It's called
Speaker 1: the kakul A problem. Where did language come from? We
Speaker 1: should totally post that in case you would love this.
Speaker 6: That sounds great, actually, yeah, and just kind of something
Speaker 6: that occurred to me. Kubrick once he was living in
Speaker 6: England and sort of, you know, being a little bit
Speaker 6: more perhaps reclusive. He was having like tapes of American
Speaker 6: football games and baseball games I think sent over to
Speaker 6: him from the United States. But in one interview he
Speaker 6: actually says that the commercials interested him more than the
Speaker 6: games themselves, because just something that could tell a complete
Speaker 6: story within the span of thirty or fifteen seconds. The
Speaker 6: economy of that, of means of communicating that in just
Speaker 6: a handful of images in the best advertising really fascinated him.
Speaker 1: I would love to see him review commercials.
Speaker 3: I've always felt that way about like jingles or like
Speaker 3: making a little tent fifteen second theme tune for a show.
Speaker 3: I dabbled in that with some of our podcasts. It's
Speaker 3: really fun to try to communicate a kind of beginning, middle,
Speaker 3: and end of something in a very finite short amount
Speaker 3: of time.
Speaker 2: Can you guys imagine the multiverse where Kubrick just was
Speaker 2: working for Procter and Gamble or some other huge company
Speaker 2: and just making commercials.
Speaker 1: One let's best, let's write one. Let's do it. I'm
Speaker 1: not kidding. Let's let's write Stanley Kubrick ad somehow Well, okay,
Speaker 1: so these people, these journalists and researchers who do read
Speaker 1: something in the tea leaves or feel that they have
Speaker 1: divined something beyond the surface story of these films. They
Speaker 1: argue that his films are just a message leading to
Speaker 1: his larger, secret great work, which I know is a
Speaker 1: loaded term. They argue that Stanley Kubrick participated in some
Speaker 1: of the world's most insidious cover ups, and that this
Speaker 1: participation later tortured him so much so, in fact, that
Speaker 1: he hid clues to the truth in his own work.
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. First and foremost and most
Speaker 1: well known conspiracy involving Stanley Kubrick is.
Speaker 2: What the moon landing that never was?
Speaker 1: Was? This was? Yeah, no human beings ever actually landed
Speaker 1: on the Moon, they say. Instead, the US government secretly
Speaker 1: contracted with Stanley Kubrick to film a fake moon landing
Speaker 1: of high enough quality to fool the world, and then
Speaker 1: swore him and everyone else involved to secrecy on pain
Speaker 1: of death.
Speaker 2: Well, that's obviously true. Let's move on. Now there's more
Speaker 2: to parse out here.
Speaker 1: We can tell you how the story began to circulate.
Speaker 1: So it began being taken seriously by people after Stanley
Speaker 1: Kubrick's death. This was not around when he was alive,
Speaker 1: and the most prominent mentions we can find someone seriously
Speaker 1: alleging this come from a writer and director named Jay Wadner,
Speaker 1: who began publicizing what he saw his clues supporting this concept,
Speaker 1: and we can dive into this. We do want to
Speaker 1: warn anyone who hasn't seen The Shining for some reason,
Speaker 1: go watch it now. This is going to examine in
Speaker 1: detail aspects of The Shining.
Speaker 2: It's not major spoiler territory, but there are a couple
Speaker 2: of spots that are troublesome.
Speaker 3: But surely both the movie and the book are well
Speaker 3: beyond the statute of limitations.
Speaker 4: Sure spoilers at this.
Speaker 2: Point, but The Shining is one of those movies that
Speaker 2: even if you haven't seen it by now, you should
Speaker 2: see it before anyone spoils it.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, but you probably also know the stories I read.
Speaker 1: You know it's so it's almost a trope. It's almost
Speaker 1: an agglomeration of tropes at this point. But still, I
Speaker 1: guess we should do the countdown for spoilers.
Speaker 2: Forty thirty nine.
Speaker 3: That's that one about the dude that plays piano and
Speaker 3: kind of loses his marbles.
Speaker 2: Yep, that's the one. I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2: I can't think of the act.
Speaker 3: It's called Shine, Jeffrey Rush's first big picture.
Speaker 1: Nice spoilers Jeffrey Rushes and Shine. Yep, if that's if
Speaker 1: that was if that was the question you wanted answer
Speaker 1: to him.
Speaker 4: Here's a spoiler for Shine. His father.
Speaker 3: His father's father breaks his violin, and that dad makes
Speaker 3: him into a bitter old man, turns him into a penis.
Speaker 1: No, it does so. Fact of the Shinen with an
Speaker 1: I N G in Jesus assessment Jack and Danny Torrance.
Speaker 1: The dad and the son represent different aspects of Kubrick himself.
Speaker 1: So Danny is the gift, youthful, idealistic director who's in
Speaker 1: tune with a greater message. Danny in the story is psychic,
Speaker 1: and so symbolically that's Kubrick being capable of seeing things
Speaker 1: no one else can see. Danny also has a knact
Speaker 1: for telling people things that should ordinarily be kept quiet. Jack,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, the father is the quote practical,
Speaker 1: pragmatic guy who wants to be a great artist, and
Speaker 1: he's apparently willing to do anything to accomplish his goal
Speaker 1: of becoming a writer. So to support this, j cites
Speaker 1: several perceived physical similarities Jack's practice of smoking Marlborough's the
Speaker 1: same kind that Kubrick smoked. To the earlier point about
Speaker 1: his appearance, he says Jack looks unkempt, unshaven.
Speaker 2: As the film progresses, he begins looking more and more
Speaker 2: like the behind the scenes footage of Cubrick Kubrick and yeah,
Speaker 2: it's I mean, it is interesting.
Speaker 3: Kubrick also was known to carry an axe around set. Yes,
Speaker 3: wave it wildly if people to get them to do what.
Speaker 2: Shelley Duvall get back over here when I say action.
Speaker 1: Go true story. He never used the door knob, only
Speaker 1: access his whole life.
Speaker 4: You have like a metal phobia, like.
Speaker 1: You Ben he Uh you know, maybe he just had
Speaker 1: a pro axe thing. Okay, uh, yes, yes, uh. The
Speaker 1: he does look unkempt, and you see this in the
Speaker 1: behind the scenes footage He and Jack Nicholson playing Torrents
Speaker 1: become increasingly I don't want to say decrepit, but wild looking.
Speaker 1: And the Overlook Hotel in this reading represents America. It's shiny,
Speaker 1: it's wealthy, but it is built upon blood and terrible,
Speaker 1: terrible secrets.
Speaker 4: We talked about the baking powder cans.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Calvi it comes in a little bit later, but
Speaker 2: that's something we can touch on now.
Speaker 3: Well, I only mentioned because Ben talks about how it's
Speaker 3: built on blood money and then.
Speaker 2: Well they mentioned in the film, I believe that built
Speaker 2: like an Indians.
Speaker 6: When they're when they're doing the tour, he says, we
Speaker 6: had to repel several Indian attacks while we were building
Speaker 6: this place, which.
Speaker 1: Is just such a throwaway line in there too, it
Speaker 1: makes it more sinister.
Speaker 3: But visually, there's a whole like crazy stockpile of calumet
Speaker 3: baking soda or powder that has the you know, the
Speaker 3: traditional Indian chief headdress, very conspicuously turned towards the camera.
Speaker 6: Isn't that right case, Well, it's in profile and uh.
Speaker 6: And it's also Hallerin who was giving the tour of
Speaker 6: the of the kitchen, is in the same profile as
Speaker 6: the Indians. So there's been some suggestion that Kuprick is
Speaker 6: drawing a parallel visually between you know what what happened
Speaker 6: historically to Indians and African Americans as well in the
Speaker 6: United States.
Speaker 1: But to Jay, it's all about faking the moon landing. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yes, in this context, it's like, this is America, and
Speaker 2: here is the most important part, right, the the hotel manager.
Speaker 1: Hm hm, or at least the first one we meet, right.
Speaker 1: He apparently represents the face of the American government. Where's red,
Speaker 1: white and blue. He has a US flag in his office.
Speaker 1: He sits in front of an eagle, the power behind
Speaker 1: the throne and the lunar lander of the Apollo eleven mission,
Speaker 1: Jay notes, was called the Eagle. Oh, the deal that
Speaker 1: Jack makes with this manager, he can pursue his creative
Speaker 1: interest so long as he takes care of the Overlook,
Speaker 1: and the manager tells Jack his main job is to
Speaker 1: prevent the Overlook Hotel from looking like it is decaying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and here we're talking about America again. If we
Speaker 2: taken in the context that he sees it in that
Speaker 2: we're going to need you to fake this thing so
Speaker 2: it doesn't look like we are the decaying force within
Speaker 2: these Cold War powers, which is another big thing here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there we go. Okay, So the storm that hits
Speaker 1: the Overlook is, again, according to Jay, representative of the
Speaker 1: Cold War between the USSR and the US. This Cold
Speaker 1: War and efforts to hide real American technology. Flying saucers,
Speaker 1: in his opinion, are the primary motivations behind the faked
Speaker 1: moon landing. The Torrance family then in America and Kubrick
Speaker 1: are trapped in the Cold War. Uh, there's they call
Speaker 1: it pregnant. Yeah, there's a there's another thing that goes
Speaker 1: that ties into the Native American artistic motifs, right, that
Speaker 1: are all throughout the Shining Uh in the room where
Speaker 1: he where Jack is attempting to write and going crazier
Speaker 1: and crazier and throwing that tennis ball. The wall has
Speaker 1: this Native American motif that, according to j looks like
Speaker 1: a bunch of rockets about.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, watch well, you know there is and there's
Speaker 2: also so much Native American just imagery. And sure there's
Speaker 2: so many symbols within the hotel. You look at the
Speaker 2: carpeting in certain areas and I just really quickly, I'd
Speaker 2: love to ask Casey if do you think there's any
Speaker 2: salt to that reading of this film that perhaps the
Speaker 2: overlook is in some way the United States.
Speaker 1: I think there's something to it. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 6: I don't necessarily buy into the whole Kubrick is guilty
Speaker 6: about the moon landing and he's kind of addressing that
Speaker 6: in the Shining. But I do think there is something
Speaker 6: to the idea that the Overlook Hotel standing in for
Speaker 6: the United States and the film in some ways being
Speaker 6: about the past kind of continuing into the present and
Speaker 6: kind of never truly being gone.
Speaker 3: I think it's a loop the way it's depicted in
Speaker 3: the film, like, yeah, the spoiler alert. But you know Jack,
Speaker 3: he's always been there, He's always been the caretaker.
Speaker 6: Well you notice, like at the end of the film,
Speaker 6: when when you see that picture of Jack Nicholson on
Speaker 6: the wall with all the people in like nineteen twenty one,
Speaker 6: I think it is Yeah, it's July fourth, It's like
Speaker 6: the fourth of July.
Speaker 1: Ball Oh yeah, dun, dun, dun.
Speaker 3: And my whole thing is, why wouldn't Kubrick do this
Speaker 3: for funzies? You know, It's like it seemed like an
Speaker 3: odd choice for me anyway, to make like this horror movie.
Speaker 3: It's nothing he'd ever done before. It just seemed like
Speaker 3: kind of out of left field. It makes sense to
Speaker 3: me that he would have kind of not an agenda,
Speaker 3: but some twist on it that would make it a
Speaker 3: little more fun for him than just doing a traditional
Speaker 3: you know, straight up horror film.
Speaker 4: Yeah, straight up horror film.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's a good point. So j W
Speaker 1: would agree with you, and people who think it's about
Speaker 1: the moon Landy would agree with you. Back to a
Speaker 1: tennis ball. When those ghost twins throw the ball to Danny,
Speaker 1: he stands and for the first time in the film
Speaker 1: we can clearly see his sweater it's a rocket with
Speaker 1: the words Apollo eleven. So in crudely beneath that's a
Speaker 1: smoking gun for the proponents.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he says, we the viewer gets to see
Speaker 2: the launch of the Apollo eleven rocket as he's you know,
Speaker 2: ascending from sitting down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And look, I don't want to write this stuff
Speaker 1: off entirely, but there are some inaccuracies with his reading.
Speaker 1: So in the original version of The Shining Danny experiences
Speaker 1: this horrible psychic event in room two seventeen. In the film,
Speaker 1: this occurs in room two thirty seven. Jay argues that
Speaker 1: the average distance between Earth and the Moon is two
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty seven thousand miles, and that this change
Speaker 1: in room numbers is an allusion to this idea. However,
Speaker 1: the actual average distance from Earth to the moon is
Speaker 1: more like two hundred and thirty eight eight hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty five miles and that's that's per Nassa.
Speaker 2: Oh, but you know he's working with net right.
Speaker 1: That was waiting for someone to say that. Yeah.
Speaker 6: So it's been suggested that it was more to do
Speaker 6: with the hotel not wanting their real room two three
Speaker 6: or two one seven to be uh, you know, for
Speaker 6: people to be like scared of staying there. The hotel
Speaker 6: that they used as the exterior of the hotel in
Speaker 6: the film. A lot of the interiors are on a set.
Speaker 4: Isn't that the isn't that an Oregon?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think something Timberline lodge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, someone told me it was.
Speaker 4: I have a hat from there. I've got at the
Speaker 4: Portland Airport.
Speaker 3: I may have talked about it on the show before,
Speaker 3: but someone pointed out that that in fact.
Speaker 4: Was the place that was used as that as the
Speaker 4: overlook in the in the movie.
Speaker 6: And in another kind of really weird coincidence, the hotel
Speaker 6: that Stephen King had stayed at that kind of gave
Speaker 6: him the idea in the first place to write the
Speaker 6: book is called the Stanley Hotel.
Speaker 1: Oh, nice coincidence probably, And Stephen King notoriously not a
Speaker 1: fan right Rubrick's film.
Speaker 2: It was very different.
Speaker 3: It was very different, and I think that really supports
Speaker 3: the idea that Kubrick was having a little having a
Speaker 3: bit of fun.
Speaker 1: Was doing something. In addition, yeah, which I think is
Speaker 1: an important point, So did J and people who agree
Speaker 1: with him. Room two thirty seven represents the symbolic set
Speaker 1: on which the Apollo eleven landing was faked, and he
Speaker 1: believes that, due to the nature of shifting perceptions of
Speaker 1: reality in the room, that as Dick Hollerand said, nothing
Speaker 1: in the room is real. And the fact that Jack
Speaker 1: later lies to his wife about it, Wendy claiming he
Speaker 1: saw nothing in the room, is interpreted by Jay to
Speaker 1: mean that Kubrick lied about faking the moon landing and
Speaker 1: then said, Hey, what's the best way to tell people
Speaker 1: about this? I should make the shining.
Speaker 2: You should have a woman in a bathtub become very old,
Speaker 2: very fast, all of a sudden. Yeah, that was good,
Speaker 2: That's what I would do.
Speaker 1: I got chills.
Speaker 4: So that's a really scary scene.
Speaker 1: Is so much.
Speaker 3: I don't find the shining particularly scary overall, but that
Speaker 3: scene sticks with.
Speaker 1: Me when I do when I do a lot of research.
Speaker 1: I actually play low fi chill wave instrumentals and the
Speaker 1: Shining on mute, and it makes it makes it a
Speaker 1: different film, and it's actually great.
Speaker 3: Speaking of that, have you seen the funny spoof trailer
Speaker 3: for The Shining with featuring Peter Gabriel Salisbury Hill.
Speaker 4: And it's just like makes it look like a total
Speaker 4: rom com.
Speaker 3: It just just goes to show that it's so easy
Speaker 3: to reframe things with music and just clever cutting, and
Speaker 3: it's like Shining.
Speaker 1: Yes, So he has some other things for people who
Speaker 1: believe that the moon landing was faked. Rubric did it
Speaker 1: and told us about in The Shining point to other
Speaker 1: small details like casey like you said with July fourth,
Speaker 1: which I had no idea, and that that's fascinating. I
Speaker 1: have to go back and watch it again. And then
Speaker 1: here's what I thought you guys would find interesting. You know,
Speaker 1: he's typing in the manuscript, he's going crazy, and he
Speaker 1: just writes over and over again in different formats. All
Speaker 1: work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. According
Speaker 1: to j that should actually be read is not all
Speaker 1: work but a eleven work and no play makes Jack
Speaker 1: a dull boy. Oh, come on a eleven standing for
Speaker 1: of course Apollo eleven. I think we've solved it.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, I don't want to throw I
Speaker 2: don't want to throw spurs at ja JW. But it
Speaker 2: you know, that's reading into things pretty hard.
Speaker 3: But there are some recurring Apollo eleven themes in the movie.
Speaker 3: But it was also very much in the the consciousness
Speaker 3: of the time. You know, the sweater, the rocket pattern
Speaker 3: and stuff.
Speaker 6: You know he does he does throw out a quick
Speaker 6: reference in a clockwork orange. Also there's a character who's
Speaker 6: talking about man on the moon and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but think about how again, just what you
Speaker 2: guys said, how massive that is in the zeitgeist from
Speaker 2: that moment forward and then had a decay rate to
Speaker 2: the point where we still are interested in talk about it.
Speaker 1: Literally one of the top five moments in human history.
Speaker 1: And I don't know which which one it is. I'm
Speaker 1: just being conservative. I don't want to say it's the
Speaker 1: best one, because have you get I saw an amazing
Speaker 1: tuba solo video a while back.
Speaker 4: Man, you sent it to me and I have yet
Speaker 4: to crack it open.
Speaker 1: My guy, I should apologize. I get a little fixated,
Speaker 1: myopic and I think I texted numerous people during the day.
Speaker 3: This It just said all caps Tuba solo and then yeah,
Speaker 3: so it was you know, you couldn't really mistake it
Speaker 3: for anything.
Speaker 1: It's great, though, Okay.
Speaker 2: Can we get do the most? My favorite thing about
Speaker 2: all of this theory, and it's the thing that kind
Speaker 2: of solidifies it for me because I understand, as Casey
Speaker 2: and we were all saying before the America symbol as
Speaker 2: the overlook, and this deal that's being made that with
Speaker 2: the main character that subsists, it's all. It has always
Speaker 2: been there and it will always be there if you
Speaker 2: if you look at it again, all those things together,
Speaker 2: this deal that they make, could it be that this
Speaker 2: is Stanley Kubrick making a deal with the American government
Speaker 2: in that hotel office that sets up the entire thing,
Speaker 2: the entire world in which Kubrick then exists. I mean
Speaker 2: to me that I can totally see. I can totally
Speaker 2: see that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what you're you are persuading me here, Matt.
Speaker 1: It's still something people debate. I mean, unsurprisingly not everybody agrees. Yeah, right, but.
Speaker 2: I don't fully agree. But it's this is one of
Speaker 2: those I want to believe things.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we still have to get those posters.
Speaker 1: How many did you say it was too many? Thirteen? Fourteen? Yeah, thirteen, Okay,
Speaker 1: so we'll only get twelve. There's another piece of intrigue
Speaker 1: that emerges around the shining in twenty fifteen or so,
Speaker 1: clips of someone purporting to be Stanley Kubrick's surface, and
Speaker 1: in these clips, the subject appears to take credit for
Speaker 1: faking the moon landing. He calls it his masterpiece, he
Speaker 1: totally owns it, and says that he filmed it. However,
Speaker 1: critics note that several parts of the interview strongly call
Speaker 1: the authenticity of the footage into question.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't look like Stanley Kubrick. It doesn't sound
Speaker 2: like Stanley Kubrick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's probably not Stanley Kubrick.
Speaker 2: They said. The interview occurred in May of nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 2: after he had already died.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can hear the guy who's doing the
Speaker 1: interview refer to the person purporting to be Stanley Kubrick
Speaker 1: as Tom and saying, Okay, Tom, let's do it this
Speaker 1: way so that I think we can dismiss. Additionally, his daughter,
Speaker 1: Kubrick's daughter, Vivian Kubrick strongly objects to these claims, and
Speaker 1: she dismisses them outright. We have a statement that she
Speaker 1: released on Twitter regarding this.
Speaker 2: V coup one one one what v I ku?
Speaker 1: And then four ones, and you can read that in full.
Speaker 1: It's pretty well written. It sounds very reasonable. One line
Speaker 1: that we all thought you would really enjoy is where
Speaker 1: she says there are many very real conspiracies that have
Speaker 1: happened throughout our history and are happening presently. I'm only
Speaker 1: too aware of the dreadful manipulations perpetrated by government, secret services, banksters,
Speaker 1: the military industrial complex, et cetera. But claims that the
Speaker 1: moon landings were faked and filmed by my father. I
Speaker 1: just can't understand it. How can any one believe that
Speaker 1: one of the greatest defenders of mankind would commit such
Speaker 1: an act of betrayal.
Speaker 2: I think Vivian would really like our show.
Speaker 1: I hope.
Speaker 6: So, yeah, she'd be into it, Thanks Casey. I follow
Speaker 6: her on Twitter side. She really posts a lot of
Speaker 6: conspiratorial stuff.
Speaker 2: Guess what boys follow?
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's official, Matt.
Speaker 6: That's it's not a full endorsement because she I think
Speaker 6: she posted some kind of problematic stuff sometimes.
Speaker 2: Too, well, we're gonna follow in anyway because.
Speaker 4: She ain't no follow back girl.
Speaker 1: Oh that's just because I was worth it. But of
Speaker 1: course there are alternate interpretations of the Shining. There's this
Speaker 1: great documentary called Room two thirty seven came out in
Speaker 1: twenty twelve. I remember we all talked about it at work.
Speaker 1: That examines other analyzes of the work. And here the
Speaker 1: big ones. This is one that we mentioned earlier. The
Speaker 1: Shining is about the genocide of Native Americans, and as
Speaker 1: Casey No pointed out, there is a ton of imagery
Speaker 1: right and purposeful framing of shots to support that idea.
Speaker 1: Other people will say, yes, it's about genocide, but not
Speaker 1: the genocide of Native Americans. It's about the Holocaust. And
Speaker 1: then of course someone will say no, the Shining is
Speaker 1: about faking the moon landing. Someone will say no, the
Speaker 1: Shining is a retelling of the minotaur myth.
Speaker 4: Okay, is there is there a maze in the book?
Speaker 6: No, No, they're they're just hedge creatures. That's one of
Speaker 6: the one of the big big changes.
Speaker 1: And also in the in the book, the Overlook Hotel
Speaker 1: explodes because the kid manages to set the boil boiler off.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, and it was the first time I learned
Speaker 1: the word dasn't.
Speaker 4: It's one of the.
Speaker 1: Last things that possessed Jack Torrets is screaming as his
Speaker 1: ghost riddled.
Speaker 4: Body dies, some kind of witchy word.
Speaker 1: It's like, it's like you dare not.
Speaker 6: Oh, it doesn't. Interesting.
Speaker 4: It was very interesting. It doesn't dare kazoo zoo. Have
Speaker 4: you seen the Exorcists? The name of the demon in
Speaker 4: Exorcist too, it's bazoo zoo. That's all.
Speaker 1: We are not getting the spoilers out.
Speaker 2: Hey, you know what we didn't mention what's that? Because
Speaker 2: I don't agree with any of the stuff you guys
Speaker 2: are talking about. I think the shining is an allegory
Speaker 2: for leaving or leaving the gold standard.
Speaker 1: The decline of the gold stage. Yes, that's another thing
Speaker 1: people have argued. The filmmaker of two thirty seven, Rodney Ashton,
Speaker 1: I believe his name is, he personally doubts all of
Speaker 1: these interpretations. And there are a couple of other things
Speaker 1: that weaken the idea of this moonlanding concept just based
Speaker 1: on the film. Prior to the writer j W's claims,
Speaker 1: there were two guys who proposed the idea as a
Speaker 1: joke on the internet. And then there was a mockumentary
Speaker 1: that I think we've all seen in this room, A
Speaker 1: Dark Side of the Moon, which is almost a Christopher
Speaker 1: Guest style look at the faking of the moon landing.
Speaker 4: No, I haven't think I even't heard of this.
Speaker 1: It's pretty funny, it's pretty good. Problem is it was
Speaker 1: often taken seriously and people will cite it as evidence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like that vampire documentary what we do in
Speaker 2: the Shadows. I mean, that's great, It's it's real, and
Speaker 2: people think it's just a documentary. It's the inverse I
Speaker 2: guess of this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good contrast there, Matt.
Speaker 4: So, I'm not sure what you guys are doing here.
Speaker 1: Okay, I think we're going to a commercial break.
Speaker 4: Okay, let's do it.
Speaker 1: We're back. So there's another conspiracy of play here that
Speaker 1: we we mentioned at the very top of the show,
Speaker 1: but we didn't really dig into Stanley Kubrick and the
Speaker 1: Illuminati aka Eyes Wide Shut, the last film he made
Speaker 1: or almost finished making, right depending on your interpretation, and
Speaker 1: one that really freaked a lot of people out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think largely because it's the only film to
Speaker 3: feature Nicole Kidman wiping her bum?
Speaker 2: Oh is that what?
Speaker 4: Yep?
Speaker 1: Well it yeah, that was the original title. I think
Speaker 1: the only film.
Speaker 4: I was wiping her bum?
Speaker 1: The only film featuring Nicole Kibben wiping her bum.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a Darryl Yes, Nicole wiping her bum. Aside,
Speaker 2: there are a lot of things that have been brought
Speaker 2: up before that perhaps this movie had to do it.
Speaker 2: The first one that I read had to do with
Speaker 2: Scientology and whether or not this whole film was kind
Speaker 2: of a jab at the This is not me speaking,
Speaker 2: This is other people speaking. The cult like similarities or
Speaker 2: the cult like things that Scientology has within it. Tom Cruise, well,
Speaker 2: that's the well again.
Speaker 6: Like also, Vivian Kubrick, who we've talked about, is now
Speaker 6: a Scientologist.
Speaker 2: Yes, And the people online will purport that this is
Speaker 2: Stanley Kubrick fighting against it, as like you've taken my
Speaker 2: daughter and I'm very upset. I'm making this whole movie
Speaker 2: exposing you. However, she did not join Scientology until after,
Speaker 2: at least at the very very tail end of production
Speaker 2: on this film.
Speaker 1: So the timeline's a little tough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're talking about a man writing a film sure,
Speaker 2: and then coming up with the shots for it and
Speaker 2: all this it doesn't line up, but having Nicole and
Speaker 2: Tom as the lead characters interesting connection there.
Speaker 1: Perhaps, perhaps weren't you telling us off air that there's
Speaker 1: this idea of Kubrick making Eyes Wide Shut just to
Speaker 1: put them through the ringer?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's been purported by several articles, don't Casey.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've heard anything about this.
Speaker 6: But there's like, there's one scene in Eyes Wide Shut
Speaker 6: that feels a little bit weirdly out of place. It's
Speaker 6: where Tom Cruise is kind of walking the streets of
Speaker 6: you know, the backlot version of New York that they
Speaker 6: built in England at night by himself, and he passes
Speaker 6: these kind of like frat guys and they don't get
Speaker 6: out of his way and they bump into him and
Speaker 6: they kind of like start yelling kind of homophobic stuff
Speaker 6: at him. And there has been some suggestion that that
Speaker 6: scene was in there almost as Kubrick's potential commentary on Tom.
Speaker 6: You know, there's been rumors for years about about Tom Cruise,
Speaker 6: so you know, just just not even so much Kubrick
Speaker 6: falling down on one side or the other of that
Speaker 6: whole thing, but just kind of I don't know, prodding
Speaker 6: Tom Cruise and like the control of his image and
Speaker 6: all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: But isn't Also isn't Kubrick very well known for putting
Speaker 1: all actors through the ringer? Yeah?
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, well, and also Scatman Crothers, who plays hallerin
Speaker 6: in The Shining, tells a story about having to do
Speaker 6: some line of dialogue like hello or something like a
Speaker 6: hundred times and finally kind of crying out and exasperation,
Speaker 6: mister Kubrick, what do you want? And you know, Kubrick
Speaker 6: just saying I'm just waiting to get it right, or
Speaker 6: you know, just just keep trying it.
Speaker 1: Yes, toast of line.
Speaker 2: Well, but it goes, it goes much much deeper than that.
Speaker 2: There's there's a there's an article in Vanity Fair that
Speaker 2: discusses specifically how Kubrick pushed the relationship of Nicole Kidman
Speaker 2: and Tom Cruise on set and offset there was this
Speaker 2: fairly very short sex scene between Nicole Kidman's character and
Speaker 2: some other man, and Kubrick barred Tom Cruise from being
Speaker 2: on set and they shot it for like six days
Speaker 2: and it's this tiny little sex scene Tom Cruise was
Speaker 2: not allowed to be told anything about what was happening. Again,
Speaker 2: this is his wife, right, and that's that's one of
Speaker 2: those things that almost I can see him as a
Speaker 2: director trying to unsettle both of them on purpose, right,
Speaker 2: test their marriage because in the movie they're married, and
Speaker 2: then he's testing their actual marriage. And he would have
Speaker 2: them sit down and do essentially therapy with Stanley, with
Speaker 2: the three of them together in a room and talk
Speaker 2: about their actual marital problems, and then that into the movie.
Speaker 3: Well, and I made the joke about the bomb wiping
Speaker 3: thing earlier not to keep harping on.
Speaker 4: That, but that sort of fed into that too.
Speaker 3: The idea that he made them kind of behave in
Speaker 3: in the scene as as a married couple, would you know,
Speaker 3: and go about their business and kind of having gotten
Speaker 3: past that honeymoon period where you're gonna, you know, take
Speaker 3: a pee with the door open and not worry that
Speaker 3: your husband's standing right there.
Speaker 2: You know. These are these are two of the most
Speaker 2: powerful and famous actors in all of Hollywood at the
Speaker 2: time at the time that he that he is kind
Speaker 2: of toying with And I wonder how much of that
Speaker 2: is him, Like I don't know, just really exercising the power.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But also at this time, you know, he's a
Speaker 1: he's already a legendary director. So he's kind of like
Speaker 1: at the level in the terms of directing, he's kind
Speaker 1: of like at the level Prince was in terms of music.
Speaker 1: People just don't say no to him. Yeah, except after
Speaker 1: his death. So he The big question about Isa Wide Shut, right,
Speaker 1: is he purposely torturing the actors like a cat with
Speaker 1: a mouse? Is he fighting against scientology using the language
Speaker 1: of symbolism. The thing you'll find perhaps most curious if
Speaker 1: you have seen as Wide Shut before, or if you
Speaker 1: are not too familiar with the story you want to
Speaker 1: dive into it. The thing you might find most curious
Speaker 1: is that many people argue about the cut of the film.
Speaker 2: Yes, the final cut right right.
Speaker 1: Kubrick's contract had some hard lines preventing studios from editing
Speaker 1: his work without his consent. Again, he's still the same
Speaker 1: very hands on director he was back in the fifties.
Speaker 1: The essentially going through the legal eese. His position is
Speaker 1: it's done when I say it's done, and then when
Speaker 1: I say it's done, it's definitely done. No studios intruding
Speaker 1: don't tell me to put in a new actor or
Speaker 1: some dumb scene with a talking dog. I run the show.
Speaker 6: And that that carried through even to the marketing of
Speaker 6: his films. He designed all the posters himself, he cut
Speaker 6: all the trailers himself, and he was heavily, heavily involved
Speaker 6: in selling the movie even after he was done working
Speaker 6: on it.
Speaker 1: So then he after his untimely death, these critics and
Speaker 1: researchers wonder whether the cut that premiered in theaters was
Speaker 1: the actual final cut he won it. So were there
Speaker 1: scenes that might have been left out without his consent
Speaker 1: or altered? I mean, what gives casey?
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, yeah, so there there is some truth to
Speaker 6: this in a certain sense. I mean maybe it goes
Speaker 6: deeper if you if you buy into that theory, but
Speaker 6: you know, just sticking to like what is definitely known
Speaker 6: to be definitely true. Kubrick was contractually obligated. Even though
Speaker 6: he had final cut, he was still contractually obligated to
Speaker 6: deliver an R rated film for the US market. And
Speaker 6: since he died, you know, just as he had kind
Speaker 6: of finished his final cut, he never had a chance
Speaker 6: to kind of go back and forth with the MPAA
Speaker 6: over that rating once they did deliver an NC seventeen
Speaker 6: because of some of the nudity and the orgy sequence.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah there are there are orgies, yes, just just.
Speaker 6: Kind of one big one. But that, uh.
Speaker 2: One is to assume there have been multiple.
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, it's it's a it's a recurring event.
Speaker 6: But uh so, you know, they were they were kind
Speaker 6: of in a real predicament because there's so many people
Speaker 6: that are clamoring to see like the final master work
Speaker 6: of this legendary director, and they can't release it into
Speaker 6: most theaters the way in NC seventeen works in the
Speaker 6: United States. It's it's a real problem commercially. So what
Speaker 6: they arrived at as a compromise was that they use
Speaker 6: CGI to put these kind of ridiculous looking, very static,
Speaker 6: very like Uncanny Valley esque nude figures standing with their
Speaker 6: back to the camera in front of the more explicit action.
Speaker 6: And in this way they didn't have to actually alter
Speaker 6: like the rhythm of the cutting or reshoot anything. But
Speaker 6: it absolutely stands out. I mean, nineteen ninety nine, the
Speaker 6: state of creating those kinds of you know, post production
Speaker 6: human like figures was not great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, still not super great even know if you saw
Speaker 3: Rogue one, but yeah, grand Moth Tarkian or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 3: totally took me out of that movie. Man, that Uncanny
Speaker 3: Valley effect is alive.
Speaker 6: And well, and so they but in Europe they did
Speaker 6: get the unfiltered unaltered version right away. And now if
Speaker 6: you buy the movie on Blu Ray in the US
Speaker 6: or DVD or probably streaming, it's it's also the unaltered version.
Speaker 4: It is not like as an option like it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think it just defaults to it. It doesn't even
Speaker 6: I could be wrong about that, but I think it is.
Speaker 1: So what was being covered? Is it like penetration?
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it's like people on a table and you
Speaker 6: can kind of see what's going on. So there's like
Speaker 6: people kind of standing in front. I mean there's there's
Speaker 6: really nothing like super graphic about any of it, but
Speaker 6: it you know, it doesn't leave a whole lot to
Speaker 6: the imagination.
Speaker 3: Probably nothing that we haven't already seen in like films
Speaker 3: like Caligial Efforts.
Speaker 1: Oh for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 6: It wasn't like there were all these rumors when he
Speaker 6: was making the film that it was like going to
Speaker 6: be triple X rated and it was like the most
Speaker 6: explicit thing. Ever, and then when the film actually came out,
Speaker 6: I think most people were kind of like, this is
Speaker 6: like way more tame than we were told to expect.
Speaker 2: It's because they cut out the puppet love making scene
Speaker 2: they're going to be in there.
Speaker 1: Which was the original second title of the film. Yeah,
Speaker 1: puppet love making scene by Stanley Kubrick. So there's one
Speaker 1: other elephant in the orgy room here, and it is
Speaker 1: the Illuminati.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the masks and the robes and the rituals the idea.
Speaker 1: The idea is that Kubrick, by way of being in
Speaker 1: the entertainment industry, got embroiled in a massive global Free
Speaker 1: Mason Illuminati conspiracy, and he devoted much of his career
Speaker 1: to referencing this through symbols and codes. Just like the
Speaker 1: moon Landing Shining argument, which is that Kubrick made the
Speaker 1: shining as sort of insurance to save his life from
Speaker 1: this cabal. The eyes wide shut Illuminati argument says that
Speaker 1: he while he was always pushing the envelope, he actually
Speaker 1: crossed the line for this secret of cabal when he
Speaker 1: depicted specifically trauma based mind control, similar to concepts that
Speaker 1: explored in things like Project Monarch and other related theories,
Speaker 1: and that instead of Kubrick passing away after turning in
Speaker 1: the film, he was assassinated.
Speaker 2: HM.
Speaker 1: So one of the big questions that I think we
Speaker 1: should ask about this concept is if this group is
Speaker 1: so powerful and if they were so worried that they
Speaker 1: killed him after he turned in the final cut, where
Speaker 1: were they when he was filming the thing?
Speaker 2: Well, it took Casey, correct me if I'm wrong. I
Speaker 2: think it took like eighteen.
Speaker 6: Yes, it was very very long shoot. And when you
Speaker 6: consider that, you know, Tom Cruise and Nicole Kimmon are
Speaker 6: both like extremely in demand actor at that moment, and
Speaker 6: even now you know, for that matter, they they really
Speaker 6: had to kind of shut their lives down and just
Speaker 6: like dedicate everything to being on this shoot and.
Speaker 2: Miss out on a billion dollars worth of probably right right, Well,
Speaker 2: it is interesting though when you think about some of
Speaker 2: the things, at least that I was reading in that
Speaker 2: Vanity Fair article about the weird ways of shooting, Well
Speaker 2: they were they would shoot Tom Cruise on a set
Speaker 2: with essentially green screar or projected images.
Speaker 6: But yeah, rear rear like old school rear projection. For
Speaker 6: in the UK for weeks Yeah, like.
Speaker 2: Just get that one shot of him walking around and
Speaker 2: just forced Tom Cruise to do that for weeks. And
Speaker 2: it makes me wonder if he's kind of if this
Speaker 2: theory holds true, that he's kind of obfuscating what's actually
Speaker 2: going into the movie and what's actually what the symbols
Speaker 2: that he's showing. Ok, maybe that was a strategy.
Speaker 1: Like a red herring false trails.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe, I don't know.
Speaker 6: There's like a dreamlike kind of feeling that he's trying
Speaker 6: to convey. And even though he does have like second
Speaker 6: unit photography happening in actual New York, when you look
Speaker 6: at the movie, it doesn't really feel like New York.
Speaker 6: It kind of feels like a dream idea of what
Speaker 6: New York is. And Yeah, I don't know. I'm kind
Speaker 6: of tempted to think that it was less about like
Speaker 6: putting Tom Cruise through the Ringer for the heck of it,
Speaker 6: and probably more down to just you know, technical perfectionism
Speaker 6: of Kubrick's part to have it not feel like just
Speaker 6: a bogus effect shot or something.
Speaker 2: Gotcha.
Speaker 1: So this is by and large where the conversation about
Speaker 1: eyes Wide Shut lives. We do know that Stanley Kubrick
Speaker 1: was no stranger to conspiracy theories on his own. There's
Speaker 1: a famous scene in Doctor Strangelove where he mentions fluoride.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, talking about the flooride o case. You don't
Speaker 2: happen to know a quote or anything, do you.
Speaker 6: I'm trying to think about the floor. The one that
Speaker 6: I'm thinking of is to and I women in my essence.
Speaker 2: But I think in this one they're having a discussion
Speaker 2: about fluoride in the water.
Speaker 6: I believe, Yeah, yeah, I do remember that.
Speaker 1: That is Yeah, I have a quote here that might
Speaker 1: be helpful. I'm not gonna do the voice, but it's it's.
Speaker 2: Is it a conversation?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Man.
Speaker 2: Drake, do you realize that, in addition to Florida eight
Speaker 2: and water, while they are studies underweight to Florid eight, salt, flour, fruit, juice, soup, sugar, milk,
Speaker 2: ice cream, ice cream, Man Drake, children's ice cream?
Speaker 1: Oh oh, Jack, you.
Speaker 2: Know when fluoridation first began? I h nineteen hundred and
Speaker 2: forty six, nineteen forty six, Man Drake, How does that
Speaker 2: coincide with your post war commie conspiracy? Huh? It's incredibly obvious,
Speaker 2: isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious
Speaker 2: bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual, certainly without
Speaker 2: any choice. That's the way your hardcore commie works.
Speaker 1: That's a pretty classic scene from the film. We don't
Speaker 1: know for sure Stanley Kubrick's personal thoughts on fluoride, but
Speaker 1: we do know his personal thoughts on the concept of
Speaker 1: extraterrestrial intelligence.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, we found an excerpt from Playboy Magazine, the
Speaker 2: Triple excerpt. Oh, actually, I think around that time it's
Speaker 2: probably like Double X.
Speaker 4: Maybe Playboy was never Triple X.
Speaker 3: They've always Yeah, soft god, I'm really demonstrating my knowledge.
Speaker 2: NOA, would you like to regale us with some of that?
Speaker 4: Boy? Would I?
Speaker 2: Nineteen sixty eight. By the way, Playboy Magazine, Stanley Kruper
Speaker 2: two thousand and one of Space Odyssey has just come out.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna do my Kubrick voice.
Speaker 3: Extraterrestrials may have progressed from biological species, which are fragile
Speaker 3: shells for the mind at best, into immortal machine entities,
Speaker 3: and then, over innumerable eons, they could emerge from the
Speaker 3: crystalis of matter transformed into bings of pure energy and
Speaker 3: spirit that doesn't really, I.
Speaker 2: Don't know irons, Yeah, I can't.
Speaker 4: I can only do evil.
Speaker 3: These beings would be gods to the billions of less
Speaker 3: advanced races in the universe, just as Man would appear
Speaker 3: a god to an ant.
Speaker 2: So here he's talking specifically about the possibility of extraterrestrial
Speaker 2: intelligence existing. He's not saying they exist here we've taken
Speaker 2: an excerpt, but yeah, he's just postulated on what it
Speaker 2: would be like.
Speaker 1: And he makes a point which is actually pretty flattering
Speaker 1: for us when you think about it. He makes the
Speaker 1: same point that we made in previous episodes, which is
Speaker 1: that the idea of inorganic life forms being the successful
Speaker 1: explorers of the stars is a little more likely than
Speaker 1: organic life forms.
Speaker 2: Yes, and he even gets into that.
Speaker 3: The important point is that all the standard attributes as
Speaker 3: signed to God in our history could equally well be
Speaker 3: the characteristics of biological entities who billions of years ago
Speaker 3: were at a stage of development similar to man's own
Speaker 3: and evolved into something as remote from Man as Man
Speaker 3: is remote from the prime ordial ooze from which he
Speaker 3: first emerged.
Speaker 1: That was a great I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great, and just a great job, great thought.
Speaker 2: I know, I know that's an agglomeration of other people's
Speaker 2: thoughts in a way from Stanley Kubrick. But still it's
Speaker 2: well well told.
Speaker 1: Would you say it's well framed? Sorry, guys. Well. In conclusion, first,
Speaker 1: we know this episode ran a little bit long, but
Speaker 1: we hope you enjoyed it as much as we have today.
Speaker 1: In conclusion, there's no question that Kubrick's work lends itself
Speaker 1: to a vast array of interpretation. That's the thing about
Speaker 1: interpretations of works of art. Interpretations are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and ultimately, it could be argued that all works of
Speaker 1: art belong to the audience perceiving them in terms of
Speaker 1: the meaning, right because once the artist is dead then
Speaker 1: they have no real say, which is a very controversial point.
Speaker 1: I used to hate it when my professor's pointed that out.
Speaker 2: Well, especially if you're an artist that just wants to
Speaker 2: allow your stuff to speak for itself, and you don't
Speaker 2: want to be talking to press all the time. I
Speaker 2: don't want to have to go through every little frame
Speaker 2: and say this is what this means. I'm teaching you.
Speaker 2: I'm telling you how to read my films, and you're
Speaker 2: not doing it. Get out of my sight, I'm going
Speaker 2: back to the UK right.
Speaker 1: And the intensely symbolic nature of the stories Kubrick specifically
Speaker 1: tells arguably communicate to the audience on a semi or
Speaker 1: subconscious level, accessing those primal archetypes cited by people like
Speaker 1: Carl Jung or Fraser, the author of The Golden Bow,
Speaker 1: or Joseph Campbell, and again that Cormack McCarthy article I
Speaker 1: probably already post on here's where it gets crazy, but
Speaker 1: we're posting it again. By golly, by gum, it's worth it.
Speaker 1: In the case of the Shining and the moon landing theory,
Speaker 1: the interpretations do honestly seem pretty subjective but fascinating and compelling.
Speaker 1: Problem is some inaccuracies poke holes in the case. As
Speaker 1: for the idea of a secret cabal functioning behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: pulling the strings of industries, religions and governments across the world, well,
Speaker 1: the entertainment industry certainly does have a version of that.
Speaker 1: They are called producers.
Speaker 2: Oh burn all your producers out there, And this is
Speaker 2: one thing I just wanted to speak to Casey as
Speaker 2: well about this. In general, there is a frenetic pace
Speaker 2: that's inherent in the filmmaking process, where I don't know
Speaker 2: if any of you out there have had the experience
Speaker 2: of being on a set of any kind of either
Speaker 2: for a student film, a school project. Maybe you've worked
Speaker 2: on a big production before, but if so, you know
Speaker 2: that there are major changes that occur to everything from
Speaker 2: the script to the set dressing, to the camera angle
Speaker 2: that that's going to be used in the lens, and
Speaker 2: everything in between. It happens in real time when you
Speaker 2: have a director with a vision who is seeing something
Speaker 2: that isn't necessarily written down.
Speaker 6: Oh absolutely right, yeah, yeah, I mean, and again the
Speaker 6: reason that Kubrick needed eighteen months to shoot Eyes Wide Shut,
Speaker 6: which if you watch the final film, it's kind of
Speaker 6: baffling how it could take so long to shoot it
Speaker 6: because it's a lot of like simple interiors and a
Speaker 6: couple people in a room talking. But it is because
Speaker 6: exactly that that he wanted to be able to try
Speaker 6: things this way. Do a scene here, do a scene there,
Speaker 6: you know, change the location, change the lighting. There were
Speaker 6: even actors that dropped out because they couldn't keep doing
Speaker 6: the movie, so some stuff had to be reshot in
Speaker 6: that way. So I mean, he he very much like
Speaker 6: looked at. He prepared his films meticulously, but he still
Speaker 6: they were like very much kind of living documents that
Speaker 6: he was making when when it came time to shoot them.
Speaker 2: And if you want to just to see an example
Speaker 2: of this, there's a great clip on YouTube where you
Speaker 2: can see behind the scenes shining footage where you can
Speaker 2: see Kubrick actually making these decisions about how to get
Speaker 2: the shot with Jack Nicholson standing at the door talking
Speaker 2: to his wife and this really low angle shot that
Speaker 2: he's just kind of messing around. As they're hanging around
Speaker 2: trying to figure out how to frame the thing. Sanley
Speaker 2: gets down below and goes, oh, yeah, yeah, let's try
Speaker 2: this one.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's got the director's viewfinder and he lays down.
Speaker 6: He's just like, yeah, let's do it from here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, And that kind of thing occurs in
Speaker 2: filmmaking all the time. And sometimes when you think about
Speaker 2: someone like Stanley Kubrick making these films that every moment
Speaker 2: is planned out in a notebook somewhere in a grimoire
Speaker 2: that he's got here on my plans, it probably isn't
Speaker 2: the way it worked out.
Speaker 6: Unless it's Alfred Hitchcock. And then maybe because he always said,
Speaker 6: you know, and make my movie before the camera ever
Speaker 6: comes on.
Speaker 1: And we should also we should also note that Alfred
Speaker 1: Hitchcock was a monster off screen to his talent at
Speaker 1: least yeah yeah, which I think one time, Casey, when
Speaker 1: we were shooting some video, I think I heard you
Speaker 1: say something like that too. All right, well, Casey Pegrim,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today on this
Speaker 1: show and imparting some of your Kubrick wisdom to us
Speaker 1: and the audience, and of course thank you, as we said,
Speaker 1: for tuning in. This is the end of today's episode,
Speaker 1: but not our show. You can find us on Instagram,
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Speaker 1: on Facebook.
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