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Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realisted. Is now secret that we are all cinephiles.

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Speaker 1: We have different actually we have three very different complimentary

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Speaker 1: backgrounds in the world of film and fiction. And Paul

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Speaker 1: as well. Paul is a noted filmmaker who just classes

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Speaker 1: up this show with us. And when we talk about

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Speaker 1: the world of film. Even if you were just a

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Speaker 1: casual person, you know you watch popcorn flicks or whatever,

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Speaker 1: everybody knows Stanley Kubrick. He is so accomplished, He is

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Speaker 1: such a luminary that he himself is the basis of

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Speaker 1: not one, but multiple conspiracy theories. Right, he faked the

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Speaker 1: moon landing, he predicted the future, and the shining or

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Speaker 1: the shining is about the moon landing? Right? What else?

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Speaker 1: Those are the big ones?

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Speaker 2: How are you going to go out with eyes Wide

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Speaker 2: shut as your last movie? My god?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's the most like Illuminati movie of all

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Speaker 3: time ever. Yeah, a little bit non or some naughty

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Speaker 3: bits in that one too. Kubrick is neat because he's

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Speaker 3: not what you'd exactly call prolific. He has a very

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Speaker 3: finite body of work and each one of them, banger

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Speaker 3: after bang, are very different, and yet somehow with the

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Speaker 3: signature kind of style.

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Speaker 2: But he's just really is just the detail. It's the detail,

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Speaker 2: the detail in every single thing that you see.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, how he would go out and make little

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Speaker 1: models to figure to figure out the correct lighting for things.

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Speaker 1: That's that's that's and I love what you're pointing out there,

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Speaker 1: the quality over quantity argument. I mean, before we get rolling,

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Speaker 1: just I've never asked you guys, what, in your opinion,

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Speaker 1: are are Kubrick's lesser known films that people should check

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Speaker 1: out his older ones.

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Speaker 3: I think The Killing is really great. It's a black

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Speaker 3: and white film from I believe the sixties early sixties,

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Speaker 3: and it very much is a similar kind of unreliable,

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Speaker 3: out of order story as like Reservoir Dogs.

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Speaker 4: I would I think I've read The Tarantine.

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Speaker 3: I was really into The Killing, but it's like a

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Speaker 3: heist movie, and a lot of people don't know that one.

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Speaker 4: I think it's excellent.

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Speaker 2: Confession, I've never seen that movie, but it's on my list.

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Speaker 4: It's very same.

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Speaker 1: I don't think i've I don't think i've seen it either,

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Speaker 1: but I do. You know what that reminds me of

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Speaker 1: when to talk about nonlinear nonlinear filmmaking. The first time

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Speaker 1: I saw The Godfather Parts one and two. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to date myself. I got it from a videotape rental

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Speaker 1: place because there were three tapes.

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Speaker 4: It was three tapes, I believe it was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a lot of tapes. But here's here's

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Speaker 1: the deal. I watched it by myself. Was the first

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Speaker 1: time I'd ever seen it. I was pretty I was

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Speaker 1: pretty young, but old enough to know better. Someone had

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Speaker 1: put the tapes in the wrong order and the containers

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Speaker 1: and I was so I was watching it out of

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Speaker 1: order as I see. Yeah, I was like, this is crazy.

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Speaker 2: Well, and the time the storytelling in that moves in

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Speaker 2: and out of time as well. So yes, I can't

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Speaker 2: imagine you.

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Speaker 3: Could have been easily convinced that you were doing the

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Speaker 3: right thing that you wouldn't have like stopped and known

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Speaker 3: something was a miss, but it was.

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Speaker 1: It was Godfather one and two. Just watched it all

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Speaker 1: straight through it. I'm like, why does Robert de Niro

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Speaker 1: keep showing up and then disappearing? Oh?

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Speaker 3: You you were watching parts of two intermingled with parts

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Speaker 3: of one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I got part two. That's even crazy tapes.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's funny.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, obviously you know Coppola, another incredible luminary,

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Speaker 3: known for an excellent war movie, Apocalypse Now. Kubrick also

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Speaker 3: one of the top contenders for a movie about the

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Speaker 3: Vietnam War ever made Full Metal Jacket. Yeah, honestly. But

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Speaker 3: to your point, Ben, there is you know, he's famous

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Speaker 3: for his fastidiousness.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: Shelley Devall famously was forced to do that scene walking

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Speaker 3: up the stairs with the baseball bat and the shining

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Speaker 3: like one hundred and twenty times. I think it made

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Speaker 3: the Guinness Booke Award records for the most takes and

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Speaker 3: I was like, where are those other takes? He apparently

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Speaker 3: burns them right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because we wanted to I remember we talked about

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Speaker 1: this past way and.

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Speaker 4: To see these.

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Speaker 1: But be that as it me. Despite the fact that

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Speaker 1: he has a finite body of work, Stanley Kubrick has

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Speaker 1: a continuing and indeed evolving legacy in the world of

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Speaker 1: conspiratorial thoughts.

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Speaker 4: Dare we say mythology.

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Speaker 5: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 5: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 5: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt Been

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Speaker 2: married nine years, Frederick.

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Speaker 3: Hey, congratulations, Matt, been married nine years, Frederick.

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Speaker 4: My name's Noel. Been divorced for a couple of years Brown.

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Speaker 1: Yes, congratulations, Matt been married nine years, Frederick. They call

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Speaker 1: me Ben. Our super producer Paul one Take Decandi is

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Speaker 1: away on adventures, but we are joined with our super producer,

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Speaker 1: Casey Pegram, who you may recognize from several other shows

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Speaker 1: here at How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 6: Hey, guys, thanks for having me in today.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on the show, Casey. Most importantly, if

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Speaker 1: you're listening to this, that means you are you, you

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Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff They don't want

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Speaker 1: you to know.

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Speaker 4: It really is Matt's ninth anniversary.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. That's really funny for this. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not while you're listening, but while we are listening

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Speaker 2: to ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Unless this episode somehow comes out on the same day

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Speaker 1: we record it, which usually doesn't happen unless quick peek

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Speaker 1: behind this curtain. We got something wrong. But yes, massive

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Speaker 1: congratulations Matt. A lot of people may not know that

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Speaker 1: you and Casey have worked together extensively in the past

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Speaker 1: in the film world.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's right. We owned a company together for a

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Speaker 2: while there he shot my wedding. We made numerous projects together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, shout out to Bright Elephant.

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Speaker 2: Oh dear, oh.

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Speaker 1: No, Now people will know what to search on Google.

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Speaker 1: There might be some stuff on Google.

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Speaker 6: I don't know. I think the website is no no longer.

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Speaker 4: He shot up your wedding, and you guys are still

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Speaker 4: he did.

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Speaker 2: But it was it was like celebratory style in the airport.

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Speaker 1: It was like a wedding. It was I think it

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Speaker 1: was a bank heist wedding.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, one of those.

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Speaker 1: And how cinematic would that be? Speaking of amazing segues, guys,

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Speaker 1: we're finally getting to an episode that a lot of

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Speaker 1: you have asked us about in the past. I mean,

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Speaker 1: for years, we're all film buffs here at the studio,

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Speaker 1: and like many of you, we spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: time kicking around theories and discussing the implications of various

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Speaker 1: works as well as there are greater influences on later

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Speaker 1: films and filmmakers. Today, we are diving into one of

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Speaker 1: the most well known conspiracies in the world of and

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Speaker 1: to do this justice we have to begin with a

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Speaker 1: single man. His name is Stanley Kubrick.

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Speaker 3: Old stan the Man Kubrick was born on July the

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Speaker 3: twenty sixth of the year nineteen and twenty eight in

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Speaker 3: the Bronx. You guys ever been to the Bronx.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I have never been there often.

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Speaker 4: Oh wait, we went to the Bronx once.

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Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, we were briefly there on that one.

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Speaker 4: Day the hidden buildings. Yeah yeah, yeah, that's not such

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Speaker 4: a secret anymore. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: His dad was a physician and his mother a housewife.

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Speaker 3: And he was a bad bad boy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was notoriously bad at school. In elementary school,

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Speaker 1: he had about as many absences as he did attendance days.

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Speaker 1: He was an outcast once he got to high school.

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Speaker 1: He later claimed, I never learned anything at school, and

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Speaker 1: I never read a book for pleasure until I was nineteen.

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Speaker 1: But when he did, he caught the bug. And originally

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Speaker 1: he wanted to either play baseball or be a writer.

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Speaker 1: Imagine how different the world would be if we were

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Speaker 1: talking about Stanley.

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Speaker 2: Kubrick, the third baseman.

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Speaker 1: The third baseman, right, And he did have one shining

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Speaker 1: aspect or moment in high school. It wasn't all rainy,

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Speaker 1: gray days and sad songs on the radio. He turned

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Speaker 1: out to be a promising photographer, which I think happens

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Speaker 1: with a lot of people who later go on to

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Speaker 1: become directors, Right, They start off with still photography and

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Speaker 1: they have a gift for it.

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Speaker 4: Do we talk about why Casey's on the show today.

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Speaker 1: Because it all's not here?

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Speaker 4: Well, no, but he's.

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Speaker 3: Also I mean, come on, guys, Casey's like a film

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Speaker 3: for Sionado.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah. We went to film school together at Georgia

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Speaker 2: State University and Casey was in several of my classes

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Speaker 2: and he always knew more than the professors, and he

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Speaker 2: would never admit to that, but he did.

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Speaker 1: Casey has an encyclopedia knowledge of film lore.

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Speaker 4: So Casey Kober. He shot a lot of stuff early

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Speaker 4: on for was it Look Magazine?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Look Magazine? And yeah he was.

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Speaker 6: He was quite the accomplished kind of photo journalist, even

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Speaker 6: right from the start. And yeah, I mean obviously the

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Speaker 6: everything that he learned and technically about still photography also

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Speaker 6: tends to apply to filmmaking. So he kind of got

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Speaker 6: in early that way.

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Speaker 1: So the point holds, right, Is that something we see

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Speaker 1: with other directors as well, Casey?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, certain directors, you know, every director is different. Some

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Speaker 6: have more of like a theater kind of background. Or

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Speaker 6: a writer background, but definitely the ones that are like

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Speaker 6: more hands on with the camera and tend to think

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Speaker 6: more in terms of images. Photography is like a great,

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Speaker 6: great way to get into filmmaking.

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Speaker 1: So he started on this path early. Right age sixteen,

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Speaker 1: he's selling photos to Look, and the next year, by

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Speaker 1: the time he's seventeen, they hired him full time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I was just gonna say, it's obviously a

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Speaker 3: great way to kind of establish your meis enceinn you know,

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Speaker 3: where you kind of figure out how to frame things

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Speaker 3: and what No, you know, you figure out you know

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Speaker 3: you're framing and do it with still photography. You can

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Speaker 3: certainly apply that to moving images as well. Absolutely, in

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Speaker 3: the way you place objects in the frame.

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Speaker 2: Oh, most certainly.

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Speaker 1: And we have a little bit of a romanticized picture

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Speaker 1: of his early life because when he wasn't traveling for

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Speaker 1: Look as a photographer, he spent most nights at the

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Speaker 1: Museum of Modern Art or.

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Speaker 2: MoMA, Yeah, or at a park playing chess.

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Speaker 1: He did that a lot, and that that seems really cool.

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Speaker 1: That's way more productive than a lot of things that

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Speaker 1: the average person would do in the evening. Unfortunately, he

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Speaker 1: was rejected from every college he applied to every single

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Speaker 1: one full stop.

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Speaker 4: Because he was a bad boy. He probably didn't have

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Speaker 4: the transcripts needed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he probably just didn't have the grades. But it

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Speaker 1: seemed like he wasn't a huge proponent of organized education

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Speaker 1: to begin with. However, he did not waste time. The

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Speaker 1: time he would have spent in college, he spent working

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Speaker 1: on documentary shorts financed by friends and family. These were

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Speaker 1: some of his early works.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he thought he could make a good deal

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Speaker 2: of money making these types of things because there was

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Speaker 2: another company and Casey, I don't know if you know this,

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Speaker 2: but or I don't know if you do have the

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Speaker 2: answer to this question, but there was some company that

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Speaker 2: was supposedly selling documentary shorts for fifty thousand dollars something

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Speaker 2: in say, forty thousand dollars at the time, and he thought, well,

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Speaker 2: I can do that. I can sell those and make

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Speaker 2: a ton of money. I'll spend ten thousand dollars, make

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Speaker 2: thirty thousand dollars or something like that, only to find out, oh,

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Speaker 2: oh no, you can't sell a documentary short for that

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Speaker 2: much money.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know the name of that company, but Kubrick,

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Speaker 6: you know, later on in his filmmaking career, was always

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Speaker 6: kind of a very very active producer on his films,

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Speaker 6: and he controlled the budgets very very metigulously, and it

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Speaker 6: was all with an eye towards being able to have

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Speaker 6: the time to do the films the way he wanted

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Speaker 6: them and never have that pressure to just have to

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Speaker 6: get the shot and move on. So he learned very

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Speaker 6: very early on that you have to control the money

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Speaker 6: in filmmaking, and that's what's going to allow you to

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Speaker 6: get that perfect shot every time.

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Speaker 1: You know. That's that's a really good point, because that's

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Speaker 1: something a lot of directors when they're first starting out

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Speaker 1: get wrong, right, that you have to do the unfund

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Speaker 1: stuff as well as the creative stuff. Kubrick's first feature

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Speaker 1: was this military drama called Fear and Desire, came out

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Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty three. Oddly enough, he made it without

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Speaker 1: the help of a studio. To your point, Casey, he

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Speaker 1: was somewhat of a one man band who is multitasking,

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Speaker 1: not just with the budget, not just directing, but also editing,

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Speaker 1: working sound, doing cinematography, doing things ordinarily would be a

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Speaker 1: group of people's individual jobs.

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Speaker 3: He would also shoot physically. You know with the camera.

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Speaker 3: He didn't like have a cinematographer. He was that guy.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean in later films he did work with cinematographers,

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Speaker 6: but even then it was kind of understood that the

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Speaker 6: cinematographer was like his backup in a way, like if

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Speaker 6: the cinematographer was not there for some reason, Cooper could

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Speaker 6: obviously step in and do it just as well. There's

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Speaker 6: an anecdote when he's making his first semi commercial feature

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Speaker 6: where he was working with a very well respected cinematographer

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Speaker 6: and Kubrick told him the lens he wanted and where

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Speaker 6: he wanted to put the track. He was going to

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Speaker 6: do a dolly shot, and the cinematographer had a different

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Speaker 6: idea about how to do the shot, maybe something a

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Speaker 6: little more conventional, And so he put the tracks somewhere

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Speaker 6: else and he put on the lens he felt like

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Speaker 6: putting on, and Kubrick, you know, caught it right away

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Speaker 6: and said, I didn't tell you to put the dolly there.

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Speaker 6: I didn't tell you to put the track there. I

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Speaker 6: didn't tell you to put the lens on. So do

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Speaker 6: what I said, or you know, you're you're fired off

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Speaker 6: this film. And from then on I think that cinematographer

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Speaker 6: knew he could not like pull a fast one on Kubrick.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because he's paid meticulous attention to detail, right, And

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Speaker 1: it's something that shows in his filmography. We know from

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Speaker 1: fifty seven nineteen fifty seven, just in case we came

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Speaker 1: on glued. From time there to nineteen ninety nine, he

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Speaker 1: made numerous feature films I believe ten, and these include

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Speaker 1: some of the greatest hits, right, Spartacus in nineteen sixty

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Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty two, which I do have to say,

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Speaker 1: despite the premise, is a fantastic book by Nabokov.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you liked it.

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Speaker 1: Did you read it?

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Speaker 2: I read some of it. I watched some versions the

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Speaker 2: versions of it. Is there only one version.

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Speaker 6: Of there's like a jam Iron Yeah, yeah, Adrian Line

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Speaker 6: version that was like in the nineties or something.

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Speaker 1: It has one of my favorite depictions of a death scene,

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Speaker 1: at least the novel.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.

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Speaker 1: In the first page, and there's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a spoiler. The narrator is super unreliable and a terrible

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Speaker 1: person is talking about how his mother passed away, and

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Speaker 1: all you learn is there's this parenthetical where it's just

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Speaker 1: like Picnic Comma Lightning and then it moves on. It's

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite death scenes.

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Speaker 3: He also has one of the best and most redundant

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Speaker 3: names in literature, Humbred Humbered.

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Speaker 1: I enjoy quite a lot and this socide, like Lolita,

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Speaker 1: is a very controversial story, and it's got some hugely

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Speaker 1: problematic things, but Kubrick never never hesitated. I guess to

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Speaker 1: address controversial themes like Doctor Strangelove or how I learned

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Speaker 1: to stop worrying and love the bomb which made nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty four. That's predictably something that we dig, right, yea,

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Speaker 1: and I went back as we research. I'm sure. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you guys did too, to look at some great

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Speaker 1: clips from that one. In particular, you watch the Nuke

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Speaker 1: of course, of course I have dreams about that.

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Speaker 4: Slim Pickens, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you gotta go, what a way? What

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Speaker 1: a way to go?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd be pretty cooling on WHATLD feel like.

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Speaker 3: You'd probably just get vaporized instantly, Yeah, only after the

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Speaker 3: high of writing the thing.

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Speaker 1: I guess eventually you pass out, though first, wouldn't you.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess it depends on the elevation

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Speaker 1: terminal velocity thing.

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Speaker 4: That's true point. He also probably wouldn't be able to

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Speaker 4: hold onto the thing with your legs like that.

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Speaker 1: I mean that guy fall from. That guy was definitely

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Speaker 1: easy to thigh master of some sort. He had, you

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Speaker 1: know what he had, h what's a good phrase? He

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Speaker 1: had saddle ride in thighs. Mmmm, this is getting weird.

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Speaker 6: The hustlin Pickens was was unaware that movie was a comedy.

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Speaker 6: Oh really, And he was, you know, he's kind of

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Speaker 6: known for being like a player in westerns and stuff.

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Speaker 1: And he loved the story.

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Speaker 6: And I think he had more of like a sincere

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Speaker 6: interpretation of it, and in Kubrick did not disabuse him

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Speaker 6: of that notion.

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Speaker 3: So and yet he rode the nuke yeah yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: waving his hat around the circles, going yeah.

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Speaker 1: I didn't think that was he was all about it.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was sincere. In nineteen sixty eight, Stanley

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Speaker 1: Kubrick releases what remains one of his most popular films,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one, A Space Odyssey. On a side

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Speaker 1: note here, the first manned moon landing, according to the

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Speaker 1: official story, occurred on July twentieth, nineteen sixty eight, which

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Speaker 1: will be importantly.

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Speaker 2: A mere hours after the Chapiquitic incident.

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Speaker 1: Oh really interesting.

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Speaker 2: True.

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Speaker 3: And in case anyone was interested and wants some spoilers

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Speaker 3: for the relatively un spoilable ending of two thousand and

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Speaker 3: one in Space Odyssey, there is an interview that surfaced

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Speaker 3: recently where Kubrick kind of goes beat by beat about

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Speaker 3: what that ending is supposed to mean.

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Speaker 4: Something that he typically did not do.

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Speaker 3: But this was like for I think Japanese television, and

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Speaker 3: it was something that never really made it over here

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Speaker 3: until very recently, but it's worth checking out if you

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Speaker 3: want to go over to Esquire and here Stanley Kubrick

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Speaker 3: explained the two thousand and.

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Speaker 4: One Space out of the ending in a rare unearthed video.

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Speaker 4: That's the name of the article.

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Speaker 1: Which we should post on Here's where it gets crazy, Yeah, definitely,

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Speaker 1: which is our Facebook community page, hang out with Us.

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Speaker 1: He has other works, of course, a clockwork Orange Barry

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Speaker 1: Lyndon the Shining, a personal favorite of mind full Metal Jacket.

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Speaker 1: And while he's making these amazing iconic works of film,

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Speaker 1: he is also, of course kind of living a life

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Speaker 1: outside of his job, but only kind of. He's married

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Speaker 1: three times. He has three daughters in the early nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: he moves to the UK and begins to build a

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Speaker 1: reputation as a close almost JD. Salinger level, but maybe

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Speaker 1: not quite. He avoids interviews, There barely any photographs of him,

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Speaker 1: none of them are formal, and he spends little time

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Speaker 1: outside of the studio.

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Speaker 4: He looks like you would picture a typical hermit.

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Speaker 1: Might look, yeah, a beard.

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Speaker 4: Beard, kind of shaggy on kempt hare.

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Speaker 2: And it should be noted that he takes huge breaks

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Speaker 2: in between feature films as the years kind of go by,

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Speaker 2: and his last like four films I want to say

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Speaker 2: three or four film.

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Speaker 4: Aura, So yeah, Terrence Malick.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it takes him a long time between projects. And

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Speaker 6: there is more history there of other films he tried

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Speaker 6: to get off the ground and for one reason or

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Speaker 6: another it didn't end up happening, or he decided he

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Speaker 6: didn't want to make. Probably the biggest one is Napoleon

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Speaker 6: that he was going to do, I think after two

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Speaker 6: thousand and one, and he spent years and years kind

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Speaker 6: of creating this like day by day account of Napoleon's life.

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Speaker 6: He had this whole like index card catalog system of

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Speaker 6: where Napoleon was on like every single day of his life,

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Speaker 6: just about wow. And he made you know, he put

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Speaker 6: years of his life into it. And ultimately there was

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Speaker 6: other Napoleon movies that came out in the same period

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Speaker 6: that did not perform well at the box office, and

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Speaker 6: he couldn't get it made after that.

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Speaker 4: You know, I've never seen a Napoleon movie. Have you

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Speaker 4: guys seen a Napoleon movie.

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Speaker 1: I've seen Bill and Ted. Yeah, but you'd.

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Speaker 3: Think that, you know, maybe he's just an unsympathetic character.

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Speaker 3: She's very well, okay, that must be a but no,

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Speaker 3: but casey to your point. So with this whole methodical

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Speaker 3: card catalog system, probably a bit of a neurotic, a

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Speaker 3: little bit of a stickler obsessive.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there was a sweet thing I found in

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Speaker 1: the research. While he was living in the UK and

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Speaker 1: becoming increasingly reclusive, his sister would tape football and baseball

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Speaker 1: games for some of his favorite teams, like the New

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Speaker 1: York Giants, and she would send him to She would

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Speaker 1: send these to him in the mail, so he still

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Speaker 1: had that human connection. Stanley Kubrick dies in his sleep

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Speaker 1: on March seventh, nineteen ninety nine, mere hours after delivering

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Speaker 1: a pri of eyes Wide Shut, and this would become

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Speaker 1: his last film. But it's where our story really begins,

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Speaker 1: and we'll get to it after a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 1: We're back. So these are just the brief highlights, very

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Speaker 1: brief highlights, as it were, of Kubrick's life and times,

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Speaker 1: and there's much much more to his story off screen.

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Speaker 1: In fact, even in the on screen stuff. Entire volumes

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Speaker 1: of literature have been dedicated to the story behind a

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Speaker 1: single Kubrick film, like Full Metal Jacket or The Shining

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Speaker 1: or Eyes or two thousand oh yeah, especially or Eyes

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Speaker 1: Wide Shut.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I always felt like that movie was secretly, not so

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Speaker 3: secretly about the illuminati.

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Speaker 4: You did a kind of.

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Speaker 1: A there's a surprising amount of fringe journalists and researchers

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Speaker 1: who believe that A. Well, they tend to agree with

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Speaker 1: your point, Noel. They believe that his most influential work

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Speaker 1: has little or nothing to do with what the public

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Speaker 1: perceives is his of wooll of.

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Speaker 2: I what the hell is that?

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Speaker 1: It's your body of work?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's your tight, tight body of work.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, can we really fast just casey? I think

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons, just before we get into all this,

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons that people feel that way is because, uh,

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Speaker 2: he dealt a lot with visual symbols, symbology, things that

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Speaker 2: represented other things that would be in a shot or

442
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 2: the shot would be a certain way to speak beyond

443
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 2: just what is occurring, what you're seeing on screen, or

444
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 2: what's what you're hearing.

445
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think Kubrick, again going

446
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 6: back to kind of his his origins and still photography,

447
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,680
Speaker 6: was was all about the image and composition and symbology

448
00:21:54,800 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 6: and kind of going into the deeper layers of story telling,

449
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 6: you know, Joseph Campbell, Carl Jung, that kind of stuff,

450
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 6: the idea of archetypes and these kind of like primal

451
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 6: tendencies in narratives and and things that recur in stories

452
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 6: over and over throughout you know time. So he was

453
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 6: kind of tapped into a lot of that.

454
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 1: I think we've said up before, got to say it again.

455
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 1: There's an excellent article by Cormack McCarthy that addresses this

456
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:30,360
Speaker 1: concept of symbol as communication beyond articulated language. It's called

457
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 1: the kakul A problem. Where did language come from? We

458
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: should totally post that in case you would love this.

459
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 6: That sounds great, actually, yeah, and just kind of something

460
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 6: that occurred to me. Kubrick once he was living in

461
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,239
Speaker 6: England and sort of, you know, being a little bit

462
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 6: more perhaps reclusive. He was having like tapes of American

463
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 6: football games and baseball games I think sent over to

464
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 6: him from the United States. But in one interview he

465
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 6: actually says that the commercials interested him more than the

466
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,160
Speaker 6: games themselves, because just something that could tell a complete

467
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 6: story within the span of thirty or fifteen seconds. The

468
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 6: economy of that, of means of communicating that in just

469
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 6: a handful of images in the best advertising really fascinated him.

470
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 1: I would love to see him review commercials.

471
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 3: I've always felt that way about like jingles or like

472
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 3: making a little tent fifteen second theme tune for a show.

473
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 3: I dabbled in that with some of our podcasts. It's

474
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 3: really fun to try to communicate a kind of beginning, middle,

475
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 3: and end of something in a very finite short amount

476
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 3: of time.

477
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 2: Can you guys imagine the multiverse where Kubrick just was

478
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 2: working for Procter and Gamble or some other huge company

479
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 2: and just making commercials.

480
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: One let's best, let's write one. Let's do it. I'm

481
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: not kidding. Let's let's write Stanley Kubrick ad somehow Well, okay,

482
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 1: so these people, these journalists and researchers who do read

483
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 1: something in the tea leaves or feel that they have

484
00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: divined something beyond the surface story of these films. They

485
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 1: argue that his films are just a message leading to

486
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 1: his larger, secret great work, which I know is a

487
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: loaded term. They argue that Stanley Kubrick participated in some

488
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: of the world's most insidious cover ups, and that this

489
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 1: participation later tortured him so much so, in fact, that

490
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: he hid clues to the truth in his own work.

491
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. First and foremost and most

492
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: well known conspiracy involving Stanley Kubrick is.

493
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 2: What the moon landing that never was?

494
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: Was? This was? Yeah, no human beings ever actually landed

495
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 1: on the Moon, they say. Instead, the US government secretly

496
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: contracted with Stanley Kubrick to film a fake moon landing

497
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: of high enough quality to fool the world, and then

498
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 1: swore him and everyone else involved to secrecy on pain

499
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: of death.

500
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 2: Well, that's obviously true. Let's move on. Now there's more

501
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 2: to parse out here.

502
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: We can tell you how the story began to circulate.

503
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:10,719
Speaker 1: So it began being taken seriously by people after Stanley

504
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 1: Kubrick's death. This was not around when he was alive,

505
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: and the most prominent mentions we can find someone seriously

506
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: alleging this come from a writer and director named Jay Wadner,

507
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: who began publicizing what he saw his clues supporting this concept,

508
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: and we can dive into this. We do want to

509
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: warn anyone who hasn't seen The Shining for some reason,

510
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: go watch it now. This is going to examine in

511
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: detail aspects of The Shining.

512
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 2: It's not major spoiler territory, but there are a couple

513
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 2: of spots that are troublesome.

514
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 3: But surely both the movie and the book are well

515
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 3: beyond the statute of limitations.

516
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 4: Sure spoilers at this.

517
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 2: Point, but The Shining is one of those movies that

518
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: even if you haven't seen it by now, you should

519
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 2: see it before anyone spoils it.

520
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: Absolutely, but you probably also know the stories I read.

521
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 1: You know it's so it's almost a trope. It's almost

522
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 1: an agglomeration of tropes at this point. But still, I

523
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 1: guess we should do the countdown for spoilers.

524
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 2: Forty thirty nine.

525
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 3: That's that one about the dude that plays piano and

526
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 3: kind of loses his marbles.

527
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 2: Yep, that's the one. I know what you're talking about.

528
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 2: I can't think of the act.

529
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 3: It's called Shine, Jeffrey Rush's first big picture.

530
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: Nice spoilers Jeffrey Rushes and Shine. Yep, if that's if

531
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 1: that was if that was the question you wanted answer

532
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 1: to him.

533
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 4: Here's a spoiler for Shine. His father.

534
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 3: His father's father breaks his violin, and that dad makes

535
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 3: him into a bitter old man, turns him into a penis.

536
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: No, it does so. Fact of the Shinen with an

537
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: I N G in Jesus assessment Jack and Danny Torrance.

538
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: The dad and the son represent different aspects of Kubrick himself.

539
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 1: So Danny is the gift, youthful, idealistic director who's in

540
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: tune with a greater message. Danny in the story is psychic,

541
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: and so symbolically that's Kubrick being capable of seeing things

542
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: no one else can see. Danny also has a knact

543
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: for telling people things that should ordinarily be kept quiet. Jack,

544
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: on the other hand, the father is the quote practical,

545
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 1: pragmatic guy who wants to be a great artist, and

546
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: he's apparently willing to do anything to accomplish his goal

547
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: of becoming a writer. So to support this, j cites

548
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: several perceived physical similarities Jack's practice of smoking Marlborough's the

549
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 1: same kind that Kubrick smoked. To the earlier point about

550
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: his appearance, he says Jack looks unkempt, unshaven.

551
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: As the film progresses, he begins looking more and more

552
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: like the behind the scenes footage of Cubrick Kubrick and yeah,

553
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 2: it's I mean, it is interesting.

554
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 3: Kubrick also was known to carry an axe around set. Yes,

555
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 3: wave it wildly if people to get them to do what.

556
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 2: Shelley Duvall get back over here when I say action.

557
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: Go true story. He never used the door knob, only

558
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: access his whole life.

559
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 4: You have like a metal phobia, like.

560
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 1: You Ben he Uh you know, maybe he just had

561
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: a pro axe thing. Okay, uh, yes, yes, uh. The

562
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: he does look unkempt, and you see this in the

563
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 1: behind the scenes footage He and Jack Nicholson playing Torrents

564
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: become increasingly I don't want to say decrepit, but wild looking.

565
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: And the Overlook Hotel in this reading represents America. It's shiny,

566
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: it's wealthy, but it is built upon blood and terrible,

567
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: terrible secrets.

568
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 4: We talked about the baking powder cans.

569
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Calvi it comes in a little bit later, but

570
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: that's something we can touch on now.

571
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 3: Well, I only mentioned because Ben talks about how it's

572
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 3: built on blood money and then.

573
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 2: Well they mentioned in the film, I believe that built

574
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 2: like an Indians.

575
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 6: When they're when they're doing the tour, he says, we

576
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 6: had to repel several Indian attacks while we were building

577
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 6: this place, which.

578
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: Is just such a throwaway line in there too, it

579
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: makes it more sinister.

580
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 3: But visually, there's a whole like crazy stockpile of calumet

581
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 3: baking soda or powder that has the you know, the

582
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 3: traditional Indian chief headdress, very conspicuously turned towards the camera.

583
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 6: Isn't that right case, Well, it's in profile and uh.

584
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 6: And it's also Hallerin who was giving the tour of

585
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 6: the of the kitchen, is in the same profile as

586
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 6: the Indians. So there's been some suggestion that Kuprick is

587
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 6: drawing a parallel visually between you know what what happened

588
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 6: historically to Indians and African Americans as well in the

589
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 6: United States.

590
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: But to Jay, it's all about faking the moon landing. Yeah.

591
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 2: Yes, in this context, it's like, this is America, and

592
00:29:54,840 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 2: here is the most important part, right, the the hotel manager.

593
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: Hm hm, or at least the first one we meet, right.

594
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: He apparently represents the face of the American government. Where's red,

595
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: white and blue. He has a US flag in his office.

596
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: He sits in front of an eagle, the power behind

597
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: the throne and the lunar lander of the Apollo eleven mission,

598
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: Jay notes, was called the Eagle. Oh, the deal that

599
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: Jack makes with this manager, he can pursue his creative

600
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: interest so long as he takes care of the Overlook,

601
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: and the manager tells Jack his main job is to

602
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: prevent the Overlook Hotel from looking like it is decaying.

603
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and here we're talking about America again. If we

604
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 2: taken in the context that he sees it in that

605
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: we're going to need you to fake this thing so

606
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 2: it doesn't look like we are the decaying force within

607
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 2: these Cold War powers, which is another big thing here.

608
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, there we go. Okay, So the storm that hits

609
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: the Overlook is, again, according to Jay, representative of the

610
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: Cold War between the USSR and the US. This Cold

611
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: War and efforts to hide real American technology. Flying saucers,

612
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: in his opinion, are the primary motivations behind the faked

613
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: moon landing. The Torrance family then in America and Kubrick

614
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:16,719
Speaker 1: are trapped in the Cold War. Uh, there's they call

615
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: it pregnant. Yeah, there's a there's another thing that goes

616
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: that ties into the Native American artistic motifs, right, that

617
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: are all throughout the Shining Uh in the room where

618
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: he where Jack is attempting to write and going crazier

619
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: and crazier and throwing that tennis ball. The wall has

620
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: this Native American motif that, according to j looks like

621
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: a bunch of rockets about.

622
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, watch well, you know there is and there's

623
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: also so much Native American just imagery. And sure there's

624
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: so many symbols within the hotel. You look at the

625
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 2: carpeting in certain areas and I just really quickly, I'd

626
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: love to ask Casey if do you think there's any

627
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 2: salt to that reading of this film that perhaps the

628
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 2: overlook is in some way the United States.

629
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: I think there's something to it. Yeah, I don't.

630
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 6: I don't necessarily buy into the whole Kubrick is guilty

631
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 6: about the moon landing and he's kind of addressing that

632
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 6: in the Shining. But I do think there is something

633
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 6: to the idea that the Overlook Hotel standing in for

634
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 6: the United States and the film in some ways being

635
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 6: about the past kind of continuing into the present and

636
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 6: kind of never truly being gone.

637
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 3: I think it's a loop the way it's depicted in

638
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 3: the film, like, yeah, the spoiler alert. But you know Jack,

639
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 3: he's always been there, He's always been the caretaker.

640
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 6: Well you notice, like at the end of the film,

641
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 6: when when you see that picture of Jack Nicholson on

642
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 6: the wall with all the people in like nineteen twenty one,

643
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 6: I think it is Yeah, it's July fourth, It's like

644
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 6: the fourth of July.

645
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: Ball Oh yeah, dun, dun, dun.

646
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 3: And my whole thing is, why wouldn't Kubrick do this

647
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 3: for funzies? You know, It's like it seemed like an

648
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 3: odd choice for me anyway, to make like this horror movie.

649
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 3: It's nothing he'd ever done before. It just seemed like

650
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 3: kind of out of left field. It makes sense to

651
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 3: me that he would have kind of not an agenda,

652
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 3: but some twist on it that would make it a

653
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 3: little more fun for him than just doing a traditional

654
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 3: you know, straight up horror film.

655
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, straight up horror film.

656
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's a good point. So j W

657
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: would agree with you, and people who think it's about

658
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: the moon Landy would agree with you. Back to a

659
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: tennis ball. When those ghost twins throw the ball to Danny,

660
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: he stands and for the first time in the film

661
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: we can clearly see his sweater it's a rocket with

662
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: the words Apollo eleven. So in crudely beneath that's a

663
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: smoking gun for the proponents.

664
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he says, we the viewer gets to see

665
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: the launch of the Apollo eleven rocket as he's you know,

666
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 2: ascending from sitting down.

667
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, And look, I don't want to write this stuff

668
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: off entirely, but there are some inaccuracies with his reading.

669
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: So in the original version of The Shining Danny experiences

670
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: this horrible psychic event in room two seventeen. In the film,

671
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 1: this occurs in room two thirty seven. Jay argues that

672
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: the average distance between Earth and the Moon is two

673
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty seven thousand miles, and that this change

674
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: in room numbers is an allusion to this idea. However,

675
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: the actual average distance from Earth to the moon is

676
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: more like two hundred and thirty eight eight hundred and

677
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: fifty five miles and that's that's per Nassa.

678
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 2: Oh, but you know he's working with net right.

679
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: That was waiting for someone to say that. Yeah.

680
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 6: So it's been suggested that it was more to do

681
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 6: with the hotel not wanting their real room two three

682
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 6: or two one seven to be uh, you know, for

683
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 6: people to be like scared of staying there. The hotel

684
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 6: that they used as the exterior of the hotel in

685
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 6: the film. A lot of the interiors are on a set.

686
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 4: Isn't that the isn't that an Oregon?

687
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: Yeah?

688
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think something Timberline lodge.

689
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, someone told me it was.

690
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 4: I have a hat from there. I've got at the

691
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 4: Portland Airport.

692
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 3: I may have talked about it on the show before,

693
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 3: but someone pointed out that that in fact.

694
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 4: Was the place that was used as that as the

695
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 4: overlook in the in the movie.

696
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 6: And in another kind of really weird coincidence, the hotel

697
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 6: that Stephen King had stayed at that kind of gave

698
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 6: him the idea in the first place to write the

699
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 6: book is called the Stanley Hotel.

700
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: Oh, nice coincidence probably, And Stephen King notoriously not a

701
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: fan right Rubrick's film.

702
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 2: It was very different.

703
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,240
Speaker 3: It was very different, and I think that really supports

704
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 3: the idea that Kubrick was having a little having a

705
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 3: bit of fun.

706
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: Was doing something. In addition, yeah, which I think is

707
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: an important point, So did J and people who agree

708
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: with him. Room two thirty seven represents the symbolic set

709
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: on which the Apollo eleven landing was faked, and he

710
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: believes that, due to the nature of shifting perceptions of

711
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: reality in the room, that as Dick Hollerand said, nothing

712
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: in the room is real. And the fact that Jack

713
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: later lies to his wife about it, Wendy claiming he

714
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: saw nothing in the room, is interpreted by Jay to

715
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 1: mean that Kubrick lied about faking the moon landing and

716
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: then said, Hey, what's the best way to tell people

717
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 1: about this? I should make the shining.

718
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: You should have a woman in a bathtub become very old,

719
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,959
Speaker 2: very fast, all of a sudden. Yeah, that was good,

720
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 2: That's what I would do.

721
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: I got chills.

722
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 4: So that's a really scary scene.

723
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: Is so much.

724
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 3: I don't find the shining particularly scary overall, but that

725
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 3: scene sticks with.

726
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: Me when I do when I do a lot of research.

727
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: I actually play low fi chill wave instrumentals and the

728
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: Shining on mute, and it makes it makes it a

729
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: different film, and it's actually great.

730
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 3: Speaking of that, have you seen the funny spoof trailer

731
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 3: for The Shining with featuring Peter Gabriel Salisbury Hill.

732
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 4: And it's just like makes it look like a total

733
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 4: rom com.

734
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 3: It just just goes to show that it's so easy

735
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 3: to reframe things with music and just clever cutting, and

736
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 3: it's like Shining.

737
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: Yes, So he has some other things for people who

738
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: believe that the moon landing was faked. Rubric did it

739
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: and told us about in The Shining point to other

740
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: small details like casey like you said with July fourth,

741
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 1: which I had no idea, and that that's fascinating. I

742
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: have to go back and watch it again. And then

743
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: here's what I thought you guys would find interesting. You know,

744
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: he's typing in the manuscript, he's going crazy, and he

745
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: just writes over and over again in different formats. All

746
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 1: work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. According

747
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: to j that should actually be read is not all

748
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,919
Speaker 1: work but a eleven work and no play makes Jack

749
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: a dull boy. Oh, come on a eleven standing for

750
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 1: of course Apollo eleven. I think we've solved it.

751
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 4: Wow.

752
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, I don't want to throw I

753
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: don't want to throw spurs at ja JW. But it

754
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 2: you know, that's reading into things pretty hard.

755
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 3: But there are some recurring Apollo eleven themes in the movie.

756
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 3: But it was also very much in the the consciousness

757
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 3: of the time. You know, the sweater, the rocket pattern

758
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 3: and stuff.

759
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 6: You know he does he does throw out a quick

760
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 6: reference in a clockwork orange. Also there's a character who's

761
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 6: talking about man on the moon and.

762
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but think about how again, just what you

763
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 2: guys said, how massive that is in the zeitgeist from

764
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 2: that moment forward and then had a decay rate to

765
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 2: the point where we still are interested in talk about it.

766
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: Literally one of the top five moments in human history.

767
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 1: And I don't know which which one it is. I'm

768
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: just being conservative. I don't want to say it's the

769
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: best one, because have you get I saw an amazing

770
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 1: tuba solo video a while back.

771
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 4: Man, you sent it to me and I have yet

772
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 4: to crack it open.

773
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: My guy, I should apologize. I get a little fixated,

774
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 1: myopic and I think I texted numerous people during the day.

775
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 3: This It just said all caps Tuba solo and then yeah,

776
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 3: so it was you know, you couldn't really mistake it

777
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:03,800
Speaker 3: for anything.

778
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: It's great, though, Okay.

779
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 2: Can we get do the most? My favorite thing about

780
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 2: all of this theory, and it's the thing that kind

781
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 2: of solidifies it for me because I understand, as Casey

782
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 2: and we were all saying before the America symbol as

783
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 2: the overlook, and this deal that's being made that with

784
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 2: the main character that subsists, it's all. It has always

785
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 2: been there and it will always be there if you

786
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 2: if you look at it again, all those things together,

787
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 2: this deal that they make, could it be that this

788
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 2: is Stanley Kubrick making a deal with the American government

789
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 2: in that hotel office that sets up the entire thing,

790
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: the entire world in which Kubrick then exists. I mean

791
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 2: to me that I can totally see. I can totally

792
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 2: see that.

793
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what you're you are persuading me here, Matt.

794
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 1: It's still something people debate. I mean, unsurprisingly not everybody agrees. Yeah, right, but.

795
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 2: I don't fully agree. But it's this is one of

796
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 2: those I want to believe things.

797
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,720
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we still have to get those posters.

798
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: How many did you say it was too many? Thirteen? Fourteen? Yeah, thirteen, Okay,

799
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: so we'll only get twelve. There's another piece of intrigue

800
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: that emerges around the shining in twenty fifteen or so,

801
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: clips of someone purporting to be Stanley Kubrick's surface, and

802
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: in these clips, the subject appears to take credit for

803
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: faking the moon landing. He calls it his masterpiece, he

804
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: totally owns it, and says that he filmed it. However,

805
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,359
Speaker 1: critics note that several parts of the interview strongly call

806
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,760
Speaker 1: the authenticity of the footage into question.

807
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't look like Stanley Kubrick. It doesn't sound

808
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 2: like Stanley Kubrick.

809
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's probably not Stanley Kubrick.

810
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 2: They said. The interview occurred in May of nineteen ninety nine,

811
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 2: after he had already died.

812
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can hear the guy who's doing the

813
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: interview refer to the person purporting to be Stanley Kubrick

814
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: as Tom and saying, Okay, Tom, let's do it this

815
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 1: way so that I think we can dismiss. Additionally, his daughter,

816
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 1: Kubrick's daughter, Vivian Kubrick strongly objects to these claims, and

817
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: she dismisses them outright. We have a statement that she

818
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: released on Twitter regarding this.

819
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 2: V coup one one one what v I ku?

820
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: And then four ones, and you can read that in full.

821
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: It's pretty well written. It sounds very reasonable. One line

822
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: that we all thought you would really enjoy is where

823
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: she says there are many very real conspiracies that have

824
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: happened throughout our history and are happening presently. I'm only

825
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 1: too aware of the dreadful manipulations perpetrated by government, secret services, banksters,

826
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: the military industrial complex, et cetera. But claims that the

827
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: moon landings were faked and filmed by my father. I

828
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: just can't understand it. How can any one believe that

829
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: one of the greatest defenders of mankind would commit such

830
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: an act of betrayal.

831
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 2: I think Vivian would really like our show.

832
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: I hope.

833
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 6: So, yeah, she'd be into it, Thanks Casey. I follow

834
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 6: her on Twitter side. She really posts a lot of

835
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 6: conspiratorial stuff.

836
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 2: Guess what boys follow?

837
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's official, Matt.

838
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 6: That's it's not a full endorsement because she I think

839
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 6: she posted some kind of problematic stuff sometimes.

840
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 2: Too, well, we're gonna follow in anyway because.

841
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 4: She ain't no follow back girl.

842
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: Oh that's just because I was worth it. But of

843
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: course there are alternate interpretations of the Shining. There's this

844
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: great documentary called Room two thirty seven came out in

845
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,479
Speaker 1: twenty twelve. I remember we all talked about it at work.

846
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: That examines other analyzes of the work. And here the

847
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: big ones. This is one that we mentioned earlier. The

848
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,760
Speaker 1: Shining is about the genocide of Native Americans, and as

849
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: Casey No pointed out, there is a ton of imagery

850
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:05,280
Speaker 1: right and purposeful framing of shots to support that idea.

851
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 1: Other people will say, yes, it's about genocide, but not

852
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: the genocide of Native Americans. It's about the Holocaust. And

853
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: then of course someone will say no, the Shining is

854
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: about faking the moon landing. Someone will say no, the

855
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: Shining is a retelling of the minotaur myth.

856
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 4: Okay, is there is there a maze in the book?

857
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 6: No, No, they're they're just hedge creatures. That's one of

858
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 6: the one of the big big changes.

859
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: And also in the in the book, the Overlook Hotel

860
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,919
Speaker 1: explodes because the kid manages to set the boil boiler off.

861
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: Yeah right, and it was the first time I learned

862
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: the word dasn't.

863
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 4: It's one of the.

864
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: Last things that possessed Jack Torrets is screaming as his

865
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: ghost riddled.

866
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 4: Body dies, some kind of witchy word.

867
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: It's like, it's like you dare not.

868
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 6: Oh, it doesn't. Interesting.

869
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 4: It was very interesting. It doesn't dare kazoo zoo. Have

870
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 4: you seen the Exorcists? The name of the demon in

871
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,399
Speaker 4: Exorcist too, it's bazoo zoo. That's all.

872
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: We are not getting the spoilers out.

873
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 2: Hey, you know what we didn't mention what's that? Because

874
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 2: I don't agree with any of the stuff you guys

875
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 2: are talking about. I think the shining is an allegory

876
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,800
Speaker 2: for leaving or leaving the gold standard.

877
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: The decline of the gold stage. Yes, that's another thing

878
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 1: people have argued. The filmmaker of two thirty seven, Rodney Ashton,

879
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: I believe his name is, he personally doubts all of

880
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: these interpretations. And there are a couple of other things

881
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,720
Speaker 1: that weaken the idea of this moonlanding concept just based

882
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: on the film. Prior to the writer j W's claims,

883
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: there were two guys who proposed the idea as a

884
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 1: joke on the internet. And then there was a mockumentary

885
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: that I think we've all seen in this room, A

886
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,280
Speaker 1: Dark Side of the Moon, which is almost a Christopher

887
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: Guest style look at the faking of the moon landing.

888
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 4: No, I haven't think I even't heard of this.

889
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: It's pretty funny, it's pretty good. Problem is it was

890
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: often taken seriously and people will cite it as evidence.

891
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like that vampire documentary what we do in

892
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 2: the Shadows. I mean, that's great, It's it's real, and

893
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 2: people think it's just a documentary. It's the inverse I

894
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 2: guess of this.

895
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good contrast there, Matt.

896
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 4: So, I'm not sure what you guys are doing here.

897
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: Okay, I think we're going to a commercial break.

898
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 4: Okay, let's do it.

899
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 1: We're back. So there's another conspiracy of play here that

900
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: we we mentioned at the very top of the show,

901
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 1: but we didn't really dig into Stanley Kubrick and the

902
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:49,240
Speaker 1: Illuminati aka Eyes Wide Shut, the last film he made

903
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: or almost finished making, right depending on your interpretation, and

904
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: one that really freaked a lot of people out.

905
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think largely because it's the only film to

906
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 3: feature Nicole Kidman wiping her bum?

907
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 2: Oh is that what?

908
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 4: Yep?

909
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: Well it yeah, that was the original title. I think

910
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: the only film.

911
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 4: I was wiping her bum?

912
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: The only film featuring Nicole Kibben wiping her bum.

913
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 2: Well, it's a Darryl Yes, Nicole wiping her bum. Aside,

914
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 2: there are a lot of things that have been brought

915
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: up before that perhaps this movie had to do it.

916
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 2: The first one that I read had to do with

917
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 2: Scientology and whether or not this whole film was kind

918
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 2: of a jab at the This is not me speaking,

919
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 2: This is other people speaking. The cult like similarities or

920
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 2: the cult like things that Scientology has within it. Tom Cruise, well,

921
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 2: that's the well again.

922
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 6: Like also, Vivian Kubrick, who we've talked about, is now

923
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 6: a Scientologist.

924
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: Yes, And the people online will purport that this is

925
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 2: Stanley Kubrick fighting against it, as like you've taken my

926
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 2: daughter and I'm very upset. I'm making this whole movie

927
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 2: exposing you. However, she did not join Scientology until after,

928
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,280
Speaker 2: at least at the very very tail end of production

929
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 2: on this film.

930
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:12,399
Speaker 1: So the timeline's a little tough.

931
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're talking about a man writing a film sure,

932
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 2: and then coming up with the shots for it and

933
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 2: all this it doesn't line up, but having Nicole and

934
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 2: Tom as the lead characters interesting connection there.

935
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: Perhaps, perhaps weren't you telling us off air that there's

936
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: this idea of Kubrick making Eyes Wide Shut just to

937
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: put them through the ringer?

938
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's been purported by several articles, don't Casey.

939
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've heard anything about this.

940
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 6: But there's like, there's one scene in Eyes Wide Shut

941
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,319
Speaker 6: that feels a little bit weirdly out of place. It's

942
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 6: where Tom Cruise is kind of walking the streets of

943
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 6: you know, the backlot version of New York that they

944
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 6: built in England at night by himself, and he passes

945
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 6: these kind of like frat guys and they don't get

946
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 6: out of his way and they bump into him and

947
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,320
Speaker 6: they kind of like start yelling kind of homophobic stuff

948
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 6: at him. And there has been some suggestion that that

949
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 6: scene was in there almost as Kubrick's potential commentary on Tom.

950
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,800
Speaker 6: You know, there's been rumors for years about about Tom Cruise,

951
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 6: so you know, just just not even so much Kubrick

952
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 6: falling down on one side or the other of that

953
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,800
Speaker 6: whole thing, but just kind of I don't know, prodding

954
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 6: Tom Cruise and like the control of his image and

955
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 6: all that kind of stuff.

956
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:33,280
Speaker 1: But isn't Also isn't Kubrick very well known for putting

957
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: all actors through the ringer? Yeah?

958
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, well, and also Scatman Crothers, who plays hallerin

959
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 6: in The Shining, tells a story about having to do

960
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 6: some line of dialogue like hello or something like a

961
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 6: hundred times and finally kind of crying out and exasperation,

962
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 6: mister Kubrick, what do you want? And you know, Kubrick

963
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 6: just saying I'm just waiting to get it right, or

964
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 6: you know, just just keep trying it.

965
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: Yes, toast of line.

966
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 2: Well, but it goes, it goes much much deeper than that.

967
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 2: There's there's a there's an article in Vanity Fair that

968
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 2: discusses specifically how Kubrick pushed the relationship of Nicole Kidman

969
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 2: and Tom Cruise on set and offset there was this

970
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 2: fairly very short sex scene between Nicole Kidman's character and

971
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 2: some other man, and Kubrick barred Tom Cruise from being

972
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,240
Speaker 2: on set and they shot it for like six days

973
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 2: and it's this tiny little sex scene Tom Cruise was

974
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: not allowed to be told anything about what was happening. Again,

975
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 2: this is his wife, right, and that's that's one of

976
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 2: those things that almost I can see him as a

977
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 2: director trying to unsettle both of them on purpose, right,

978
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 2: test their marriage because in the movie they're married, and

979
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 2: then he's testing their actual marriage. And he would have

980
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 2: them sit down and do essentially therapy with Stanley, with

981
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 2: the three of them together in a room and talk

982
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,280
Speaker 2: about their actual marital problems, and then that into the movie.

983
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 3: Well, and I made the joke about the bomb wiping

984
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 3: thing earlier not to keep harping on.

985
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 4: That, but that sort of fed into that too.

986
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 3: The idea that he made them kind of behave in

987
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 3: in the scene as as a married couple, would you know,

988
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 3: and go about their business and kind of having gotten

989
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 3: past that honeymoon period where you're gonna, you know, take

990
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 3: a pee with the door open and not worry that

991
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 3: your husband's standing right there.

992
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,359
Speaker 2: You know. These are these are two of the most

993
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 2: powerful and famous actors in all of Hollywood at the

994
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 2: time at the time that he that he is kind

995
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 2: of toying with And I wonder how much of that

996
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:36,240
Speaker 2: is him, Like I don't know, just really exercising the power.

997
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. But also at this time, you know, he's a

998
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 1: he's already a legendary director. So he's kind of like

999
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 1: at the level in the terms of directing, he's kind

1000
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,240
Speaker 1: of like at the level Prince was in terms of music.

1001
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 1: People just don't say no to him. Yeah, except after

1002
00:50:55,440 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 1: his death. So he The big question about Isa Wide Shut, right,

1003
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: is he purposely torturing the actors like a cat with

1004
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 1: a mouse? Is he fighting against scientology using the language

1005
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: of symbolism. The thing you'll find perhaps most curious if

1006
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: you have seen as Wide Shut before, or if you

1007
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 1: are not too familiar with the story you want to

1008
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: dive into it. The thing you might find most curious

1009
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:28,720
Speaker 1: is that many people argue about the cut of the film.

1010
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 2: Yes, the final cut right right.

1011
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: Kubrick's contract had some hard lines preventing studios from editing

1012
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:41,760
Speaker 1: his work without his consent. Again, he's still the same

1013
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 1: very hands on director he was back in the fifties.

1014
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 1: The essentially going through the legal eese. His position is

1015
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 1: it's done when I say it's done, and then when

1016
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: I say it's done, it's definitely done. No studios intruding

1017
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 1: don't tell me to put in a new actor or

1018
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:02,479
Speaker 1: some dumb scene with a talking dog. I run the show.

1019
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 6: And that that carried through even to the marketing of

1020
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 6: his films. He designed all the posters himself, he cut

1021
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:11,280
Speaker 6: all the trailers himself, and he was heavily, heavily involved

1022
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 6: in selling the movie even after he was done working

1023
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 6: on it.

1024
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: So then he after his untimely death, these critics and

1025
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 1: researchers wonder whether the cut that premiered in theaters was

1026
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 1: the actual final cut he won it. So were there

1027
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: scenes that might have been left out without his consent

1028
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: or altered? I mean, what gives casey?

1029
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, yeah, so there there is some truth to

1030
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 6: this in a certain sense. I mean maybe it goes

1031
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 6: deeper if you if you buy into that theory, but

1032
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 6: you know, just sticking to like what is definitely known

1033
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 6: to be definitely true. Kubrick was contractually obligated. Even though

1034
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 6: he had final cut, he was still contractually obligated to

1035
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 6: deliver an R rated film for the US market. And

1036
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,879
Speaker 6: since he died, you know, just as he had kind

1037
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 6: of finished his final cut, he never had a chance

1038
00:52:57,719 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 6: to kind of go back and forth with the MPAA

1039
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 6: over that rating once they did deliver an NC seventeen

1040
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 6: because of some of the nudity and the orgy sequence.

1041
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah there are there are orgies, yes, just just.

1042
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 6: Kind of one big one. But that, uh.

1043
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,800
Speaker 2: One is to assume there have been multiple.

1044
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,280
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, it's it's a it's a recurring event.

1045
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 6: But uh so, you know, they were they were kind

1046
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,760
Speaker 6: of in a real predicament because there's so many people

1047
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 6: that are clamoring to see like the final master work

1048
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 6: of this legendary director, and they can't release it into

1049
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 6: most theaters the way in NC seventeen works in the

1050
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 6: United States. It's it's a real problem commercially. So what

1051
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 6: they arrived at as a compromise was that they use

1052
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 6: CGI to put these kind of ridiculous looking, very static,

1053
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 6: very like Uncanny Valley esque nude figures standing with their

1054
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 6: back to the camera in front of the more explicit action.

1055
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 6: And in this way they didn't have to actually alter

1056
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 6: like the rhythm of the cutting or reshoot anything. But

1057
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 6: it absolutely stands out. I mean, nineteen ninety nine, the

1058
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:05,880
Speaker 6: state of creating those kinds of you know, post production

1059
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 6: human like figures was not great.

1060
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, still not super great even know if you saw

1061
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,919
Speaker 3: Rogue one, but yeah, grand Moth Tarkian or whatever. Yeah,

1062
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 3: totally took me out of that movie. Man, that Uncanny

1063
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:19,879
Speaker 3: Valley effect is alive.

1064
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,919
Speaker 6: And well, and so they but in Europe they did

1065
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 6: get the unfiltered unaltered version right away. And now if

1066
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 6: you buy the movie on Blu Ray in the US

1067
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 6: or DVD or probably streaming, it's it's also the unaltered version.

1068
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 4: It is not like as an option like it is.

1069
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:34,919
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1070
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:36,959
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think it just defaults to it. It doesn't even

1071
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 6: I could be wrong about that, but I think it is.

1072
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:41,799
Speaker 1: So what was being covered? Is it like penetration?

1073
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it's like people on a table and you

1074
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 6: can kind of see what's going on. So there's like

1075
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 6: people kind of standing in front. I mean there's there's

1076
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 6: really nothing like super graphic about any of it, but

1077
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 6: it you know, it doesn't leave a whole lot to

1078
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 6: the imagination.

1079
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 3: Probably nothing that we haven't already seen in like films

1080
00:54:57,960 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 3: like Caligial Efforts.

1081
00:54:59,080 --> 00:54:59,879
Speaker 1: Oh for sure. Yeah.

1082
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 6: It wasn't like there were all these rumors when he

1083
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 6: was making the film that it was like going to

1084
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 6: be triple X rated and it was like the most

1085
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 6: explicit thing. Ever, and then when the film actually came out,

1086
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 6: I think most people were kind of like, this is

1087
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 6: like way more tame than we were told to expect.

1088
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,920
Speaker 2: It's because they cut out the puppet love making scene

1089
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 2: they're going to be in there.

1090
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: Which was the original second title of the film. Yeah,

1091
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 1: puppet love making scene by Stanley Kubrick. So there's one

1092
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:32,400
Speaker 1: other elephant in the orgy room here, and it is

1093
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 1: the Illuminati.

1094
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:37,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, the masks and the robes and the rituals the idea.

1095
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: The idea is that Kubrick, by way of being in

1096
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: the entertainment industry, got embroiled in a massive global Free

1097
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,760
Speaker 1: Mason Illuminati conspiracy, and he devoted much of his career

1098
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 1: to referencing this through symbols and codes. Just like the

1099
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 1: moon Landing Shining argument, which is that Kubrick made the

1100
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: shining as sort of insurance to save his life from

1101
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 1: this cabal. The eyes wide shut Illuminati argument says that

1102
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 1: he while he was always pushing the envelope, he actually

1103
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 1: crossed the line for this secret of cabal when he

1104
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 1: depicted specifically trauma based mind control, similar to concepts that

1105
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:22,720
Speaker 1: explored in things like Project Monarch and other related theories,

1106
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 1: and that instead of Kubrick passing away after turning in

1107
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 1: the film, he was assassinated.

1108
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:30,359
Speaker 2: HM.

1109
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 1: So one of the big questions that I think we

1110
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 1: should ask about this concept is if this group is

1111
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: so powerful and if they were so worried that they

1112
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 1: killed him after he turned in the final cut, where

1113
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 1: were they when he was filming the thing?

1114
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 2: Well, it took Casey, correct me if I'm wrong. I

1115
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 2: think it took like eighteen.

1116
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 6: Yes, it was very very long shoot. And when you

1117
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 6: consider that, you know, Tom Cruise and Nicole Kimmon are

1118
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 6: both like extremely in demand actor at that moment, and

1119
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 6: even now you know, for that matter, they they really

1120
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 6: had to kind of shut their lives down and just

1121
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 6: like dedicate everything to being on this shoot and.

1122
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 2: Miss out on a billion dollars worth of probably right right, Well,

1123
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 2: it is interesting though when you think about some of

1124
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 2: the things, at least that I was reading in that

1125
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 2: Vanity Fair article about the weird ways of shooting, Well

1126
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 2: they were they would shoot Tom Cruise on a set

1127
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 2: with essentially green screar or projected images.

1128
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 6: But yeah, rear rear like old school rear projection. For

1129
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 6: in the UK for weeks Yeah, like.

1130
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 2: Just get that one shot of him walking around and

1131
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 2: just forced Tom Cruise to do that for weeks. And

1132
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 2: it makes me wonder if he's kind of if this

1133
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 2: theory holds true, that he's kind of obfuscating what's actually

1134
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 2: going into the movie and what's actually what the symbols

1135
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 2: that he's showing. Ok, maybe that was a strategy.

1136
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 1: Like a red herring false trails.

1137
00:57:58,360 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe, I don't know.

1138
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 6: There's like a dreamlike kind of feeling that he's trying

1139
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 6: to convey. And even though he does have like second

1140
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 6: unit photography happening in actual New York, when you look

1141
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:11,439
Speaker 6: at the movie, it doesn't really feel like New York.

1142
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 6: It kind of feels like a dream idea of what

1143
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 6: New York is. And Yeah, I don't know. I'm kind

1144
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 6: of tempted to think that it was less about like

1145
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 6: putting Tom Cruise through the Ringer for the heck of it,

1146
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 6: and probably more down to just you know, technical perfectionism

1147
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 6: of Kubrick's part to have it not feel like just

1148
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 6: a bogus effect shot or something.

1149
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 2: Gotcha.

1150
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 1: So this is by and large where the conversation about

1151
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: eyes Wide Shut lives. We do know that Stanley Kubrick

1152
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:47,919
Speaker 1: was no stranger to conspiracy theories on his own. There's

1153
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: a famous scene in Doctor Strangelove where he mentions fluoride.

1154
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, talking about the flooride o case. You don't

1155
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 2: happen to know a quote or anything, do you.

1156
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 6: I'm trying to think about the floor. The one that

1157
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 6: I'm thinking of is to and I women in my essence.

1158
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 2: But I think in this one they're having a discussion

1159
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 2: about fluoride in the water.

1160
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 6: I believe, Yeah, yeah, I do remember that.

1161
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: That is Yeah, I have a quote here that might

1162
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 1: be helpful. I'm not gonna do the voice, but it's it's.

1163
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 2: Is it a conversation?

1164
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1165
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Man.

1166
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 2: Drake, do you realize that, in addition to Florida eight

1167
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 2: and water, while they are studies underweight to Florid eight, salt, flour, fruit, juice, soup, sugar, milk,

1168
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 2: ice cream, ice cream, Man Drake, children's ice cream?

1169
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:34,440
Speaker 1: Oh oh, Jack, you.

1170
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 2: Know when fluoridation first began? I h nineteen hundred and

1171
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 2: forty six, nineteen forty six, Man Drake, How does that

1172
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 2: coincide with your post war commie conspiracy? Huh? It's incredibly obvious,

1173
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 2: isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious

1174
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 2: bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual, certainly without

1175
00:59:54,480 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 2: any choice. That's the way your hardcore commie works.

1176
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 1: That's a pretty classic scene from the film. We don't

1177
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 1: know for sure Stanley Kubrick's personal thoughts on fluoride, but

1178
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 1: we do know his personal thoughts on the concept of

1179
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 1: extraterrestrial intelligence.

1180
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 2: Oh yes, we found an excerpt from Playboy Magazine, the

1181
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:24,439
Speaker 2: Triple excerpt. Oh, actually, I think around that time it's

1182
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 2: probably like Double X.

1183
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 4: Maybe Playboy was never Triple X.

1184
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 3: They've always Yeah, soft god, I'm really demonstrating my knowledge.

1185
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 2: NOA, would you like to regale us with some of that?

1186
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 4: Boy? Would I?

1187
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 2: Nineteen sixty eight. By the way, Playboy Magazine, Stanley Kruper

1188
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 2: two thousand and one of Space Odyssey has just come out.

1189
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 4: I'm gonna do my Kubrick voice.

1190
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 3: Extraterrestrials may have progressed from biological species, which are fragile

1191
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 3: shells for the mind at best, into immortal machine entities,

1192
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 3: and then, over innumerable eons, they could emerge from the

1193
01:00:56,720 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 3: crystalis of matter transformed into bings of pure energy and

1194
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 3: spirit that doesn't really, I.

1195
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:08,439
Speaker 2: Don't know irons, Yeah, I can't.

1196
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 4: I can only do evil.

1197
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 3: These beings would be gods to the billions of less

1198
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 3: advanced races in the universe, just as Man would appear

1199
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 3: a god to an ant.

1200
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 2: So here he's talking specifically about the possibility of extraterrestrial

1201
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 2: intelligence existing. He's not saying they exist here we've taken

1202
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 2: an excerpt, but yeah, he's just postulated on what it

1203
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 2: would be like.

1204
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 1: And he makes a point which is actually pretty flattering

1205
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 1: for us when you think about it. He makes the

1206
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 1: same point that we made in previous episodes, which is

1207
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 1: that the idea of inorganic life forms being the successful

1208
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 1: explorers of the stars is a little more likely than

1209
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 1: organic life forms.

1210
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 2: Yes, and he even gets into that.

1211
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 3: The important point is that all the standard attributes as

1212
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 3: signed to God in our history could equally well be

1213
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 3: the characteristics of biological entities who billions of years ago

1214
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:12,640
Speaker 3: were at a stage of development similar to man's own

1215
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 3: and evolved into something as remote from Man as Man

1216
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 3: is remote from the prime ordial ooze from which he

1217
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 3: first emerged.

1218
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 1: That was a great I mean.

1219
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great, and just a great job, great thought.

1220
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 2: I know, I know that's an agglomeration of other people's

1221
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 2: thoughts in a way from Stanley Kubrick. But still it's

1222
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 2: well well told.

1223
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 1: Would you say it's well framed? Sorry, guys. Well. In conclusion, first,

1224
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 1: we know this episode ran a little bit long, but

1225
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 1: we hope you enjoyed it as much as we have today.

1226
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 1: In conclusion, there's no question that Kubrick's work lends itself

1227
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 1: to a vast array of interpretation. That's the thing about

1228
01:02:56,720 --> 01:03:03,440
Speaker 1: interpretations of works of art. Interpretations are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Absolutely,

1229
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 1: and ultimately, it could be argued that all works of

1230
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 1: art belong to the audience perceiving them in terms of

1231
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: the meaning, right because once the artist is dead then

1232
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 1: they have no real say, which is a very controversial point.

1233
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 1: I used to hate it when my professor's pointed that out.

1234
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:24,160
Speaker 2: Well, especially if you're an artist that just wants to

1235
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 2: allow your stuff to speak for itself, and you don't

1236
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:27,480
Speaker 2: want to be talking to press all the time. I

1237
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 2: don't want to have to go through every little frame

1238
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 2: and say this is what this means. I'm teaching you.

1239
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 2: I'm telling you how to read my films, and you're

1240
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 2: not doing it. Get out of my sight, I'm going

1241
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 2: back to the UK right.

1242
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 1: And the intensely symbolic nature of the stories Kubrick specifically

1243
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 1: tells arguably communicate to the audience on a semi or

1244
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 1: subconscious level, accessing those primal archetypes cited by people like

1245
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:54,480
Speaker 1: Carl Jung or Fraser, the author of The Golden Bow,

1246
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 1: or Joseph Campbell, and again that Cormack McCarthy article I

1247
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 1: probably already post on here's where it gets crazy, but

1248
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 1: we're posting it again. By golly, by gum, it's worth it.

1249
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 1: In the case of the Shining and the moon landing theory,

1250
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: the interpretations do honestly seem pretty subjective but fascinating and compelling.

1251
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 1: Problem is some inaccuracies poke holes in the case. As

1252
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 1: for the idea of a secret cabal functioning behind the scenes,

1253
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 1: pulling the strings of industries, religions and governments across the world, well,

1254
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 1: the entertainment industry certainly does have a version of that.

1255
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 1: They are called producers.

1256
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 2: Oh burn all your producers out there, And this is

1257
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 2: one thing I just wanted to speak to Casey as

1258
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 2: well about this. In general, there is a frenetic pace

1259
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 2: that's inherent in the filmmaking process, where I don't know

1260
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 2: if any of you out there have had the experience

1261
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 2: of being on a set of any kind of either

1262
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 2: for a student film, a school project. Maybe you've worked

1263
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 2: on a big production before, but if so, you know

1264
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:01,200
Speaker 2: that there are major changes that occur to everything from

1265
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 2: the script to the set dressing, to the camera angle

1266
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 2: that that's going to be used in the lens, and

1267
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 2: everything in between. It happens in real time when you

1268
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 2: have a director with a vision who is seeing something

1269
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:14,840
Speaker 2: that isn't necessarily written down.

1270
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 6: Oh absolutely right, yeah, yeah, I mean, and again the

1271
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 6: reason that Kubrick needed eighteen months to shoot Eyes Wide Shut,

1272
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 6: which if you watch the final film, it's kind of

1273
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 6: baffling how it could take so long to shoot it

1274
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 6: because it's a lot of like simple interiors and a

1275
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 6: couple people in a room talking. But it is because

1276
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 6: exactly that that he wanted to be able to try

1277
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 6: things this way. Do a scene here, do a scene there,

1278
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 6: you know, change the location, change the lighting. There were

1279
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 6: even actors that dropped out because they couldn't keep doing

1280
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 6: the movie, so some stuff had to be reshot in

1281
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 6: that way. So I mean, he he very much like

1282
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:55,440
Speaker 6: looked at. He prepared his films meticulously, but he still

1283
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 6: they were like very much kind of living documents that

1284
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 6: he was making when when it came time to shoot them.

1285
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:04,240
Speaker 2: And if you want to just to see an example

1286
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 2: of this, there's a great clip on YouTube where you

1287
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 2: can see behind the scenes shining footage where you can

1288
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 2: see Kubrick actually making these decisions about how to get

1289
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 2: the shot with Jack Nicholson standing at the door talking

1290
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 2: to his wife and this really low angle shot that

1291
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 2: he's just kind of messing around. As they're hanging around

1292
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 2: trying to figure out how to frame the thing. Sanley

1293
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,439
Speaker 2: gets down below and goes, oh, yeah, yeah, let's try

1294
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 2: this one.

1295
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's got the director's viewfinder and he lays down.

1296
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 6: He's just like, yeah, let's do it from here.

1297
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, And that kind of thing occurs in

1298
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 2: filmmaking all the time. And sometimes when you think about

1299
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:45,920
Speaker 2: someone like Stanley Kubrick making these films that every moment

1300
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:48,880
Speaker 2: is planned out in a notebook somewhere in a grimoire

1301
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 2: that he's got here on my plans, it probably isn't

1302
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 2: the way it worked out.

1303
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 6: Unless it's Alfred Hitchcock. And then maybe because he always said,

1304
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 6: you know, and make my movie before the camera ever

1305
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 6: comes on.

1306
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 1: And we should also we should also note that Alfred

1307
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Speaker 1: Hitchcock was a monster off screen to his talent at

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01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 1: least yeah yeah, which I think one time, Casey, when

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Speaker 1: we were shooting some video, I think I heard you

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01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:25,680
Speaker 1: say something like that too. All right, well, Casey Pegrim,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today on this

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Speaker 1: show and imparting some of your Kubrick wisdom to us

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01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 1: and the audience, and of course thank you, as we said,

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01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 1: for tuning in. This is the end of today's episode,

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01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 1: but not our show. You can find us on Instagram,

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Speaker 1: you can find us on Twitter, you can find us

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01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 1: on Facebook.

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Speaker 2: Well that's it for this episode of Stuff they Don't

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Speaker 2: Want You to Know. You can get into contact with

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Speaker 2: fashioned email.

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01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:08,360
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