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Speaker 1: So conspiracy realists, welcome to tonight's classic episode. We talked,

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Speaker 1: I think, in a couple of shows over these many

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Speaker 1: years about something called chlorophobia, which is a huge, a

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Speaker 1: huge fear in the post gacy environment of the Western world,

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Speaker 1: the fear of clowns.

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Speaker 2: Those clowns are scary, y'all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and like you know, pop cultucture hasn't really

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Speaker 3: given them a break at least the clowning profession, which

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Speaker 3: once was a reputable field, and now you know, folks

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Speaker 3: that are clowning for a living have all this chlorophobia

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Speaker 3: stuff to deal with with, like movies like It and

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Speaker 3: then of course the hugely popular remake of It.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and this particular incident that we are going

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Speaker 2: to be discussing or I guess maybe time frame, time

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Speaker 2: period where there were just there seemed to be clowns everywhere.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a great exploration of our previous discussions. Well,

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Speaker 2: I guess the post this happening, but previous to this

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Speaker 2: moment in time right now, about how social media really

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Speaker 2: was changing everything. Right, this is twenty nineteen October right

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Speaker 2: at the end, right around Halloween actually, and there were

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Speaker 2: so many videos of clowns just hanging out, purported to

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Speaker 2: be just wandering around.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not doing professional clowning, just sort of lingering at

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Speaker 1: the edge of a roadside or a forest or copes

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Speaker 1: of trees. It all began in August in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: when five photographs of what appeared to be a suspicious

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Speaker 1: clown were discovered, and these photographs took place in Green Bay, Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: But as you said, Matt, this is more than just

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Speaker 1: an exploration of some creepy people in unusual dress. This

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Speaker 1: is an exploration of the social media world in which

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Speaker 1: we now reside. Ye, all right, let's roll it.

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Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 4: production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt Eho.

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Speaker 1: It's me No, they call me Ben. We are joined

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Speaker 1: as always with our super producer Paul Mission Control Deck.

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Speaker 1: At most importantly, you are you. You are here, and

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Speaker 1: that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 1: It is the most wonderful time of the year. If

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Speaker 1: you're listening to this episode, as it comes out today,

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Speaker 1: Conspiracy Realist, Happy Halloween.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the Spookables are all around you.

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Speaker 3: Spookables, Yes, that like lunchables.

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Speaker 2: That's what my son calls them.

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Speaker 1: Really, that's a great name, and it's a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I like how it has a little bit more edge

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Speaker 1: than something being simply spooky. Right, you've probably heard that

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Speaker 1: spoopy spoopy. It's like cute spooky.

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Speaker 2: Oh nice. Yeah, he's into the real, real deal, legit

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Speaker 2: spookable stuff.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I told you guys, I've been

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Speaker 3: watching like R rated eighties horror movies with my ten

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Speaker 3: year old daughter.

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Speaker 2: Sounds like a good idea.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's fine. It's just like, mainly we watched

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Speaker 3: the first two Child's Play movies because they're just hilarious.

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Speaker 3: They're only rated R because of some slightly bad language.

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Speaker 3: But like she kids at her school used those words

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Speaker 3: and she knows not to use them and mixed company.

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Speaker 3: But we've had a really good time. And last night

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Speaker 3: after she went to bed, I watched My Bloody Valentine.

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Speaker 3: Have you seen this? It's about a crazed miner in Ontario, Canada,

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Speaker 3: and it's the most Canadian horror movie.

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Speaker 2: I've ever seen in my life as in m like minors, minors,

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Speaker 2: coal miners.

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Speaker 1: And I actually get in a conversation met with with

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Speaker 1: your wife a few weeks or a month or so back,

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Speaker 1: where I was thinking, I've got some books that I

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Speaker 1: think Matt's kid will love. The word I think I

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Speaker 1: told you this. She told me, I was worried that

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Speaker 1: maybe because I don't know what kids read, I was

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Speaker 1: worried that maybe the books would be like too scary,

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Speaker 1: you know, like scary stories telling the dark. Probably want

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Speaker 1: to wait a few years on that one or something

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Speaker 1: or amphegory. But her reply was he already has so

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Speaker 1: many books.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he certainly does.

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Speaker 1: Well let him know, let him know when, well, you guys,

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Speaker 1: let me know when it is appropriate to send them

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Speaker 1: the creepy stuff. Because I think when we're kids, we

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Speaker 1: all have this fascination to one degree or another with

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Speaker 1: things that scare us, right, with things that make our

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Speaker 1: heartbeat race, things that make us mistake a pile of

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Speaker 1: clothes in the dark for an evil figure crouching clothes

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Speaker 1: to the bed. And one of the biggest, surprisingly common

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Speaker 1: fears in the Western world is something called col roaphobia.

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Speaker 1: That's a word for the day that means the fear

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Speaker 1: of clowns. This is a pretty recent word, it comes

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Speaker 1: about in the nineteen nineties, but it describes a long standing,

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Speaker 1: arguably ancient unease that is doubtlessly familiar to many of

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Speaker 1: our fellow listeners. Clowns are a little bit different here

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Speaker 1: in the US because we live in a post gay

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Speaker 1: sy environment. John Wayne Gacy, the notorious, infamous serial murderer

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Speaker 1: who also had a reputation or an alternate identity as

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Speaker 1: a clown. This affected the cultural zeitgeist in a number

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Speaker 1: of ways, and it has consequences, ripple effects that remain

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Speaker 1: with us today. Matt, you and I I believe, were

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Speaker 1: at was it the Museum of Crime or Murder in DC.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we saw actual Pogo the clown suits.

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Speaker 3: Which was his alter ego. Oh and at the Museum

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Speaker 3: of Death in Hollywood they have several of his paintings

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Speaker 3: that he did of himself as a clown, and his

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Speaker 3: shoes are there as well.

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Speaker 1: And this this calls to mind another episode we did

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Speaker 1: on the controversy surrounding serial killer memorabilia and art, which

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Speaker 1: you know, I listened back to a while ago, and

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Speaker 1: I gotta say objectively, not that bad.

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Speaker 3: Not bad at all. I can't remember who I heard

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Speaker 3: say this, gosh, and then this is this. I think

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Speaker 3: it's an interesting point though, the idea that killers should

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Speaker 3: not be publicized, their identity should not be publicized, because

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Speaker 3: then it allows them to profit off of their crimes.

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Speaker 3: I think that's an interesting concept.

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Speaker 1: Especially in cases of terrorism where someone simply wants to

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Speaker 1: be a martyr for a cause. But back to clowns.

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Speaker 1: So because US, at least partially because of John Wayne Gacy,

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Speaker 1: but probably because of some other long standing, hardwired psychological

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Speaker 1: quirks in our brains, People from all walks of life,

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Speaker 1: especially here in these United States, are pretty comfortable nowadays

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Speaker 1: being upfront and transparent about their fear of or distrust

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Speaker 1: of clowns. People have no problem saying I don't like clowns,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to see it, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: This is a cultural phenomenon. It's not necessarily a global attitude,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of other countries clowns are these beloved

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Speaker 1: figures of fun and festivity, Like in Central America, you

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Speaker 1: know the parade is really poppin' when a gang of

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Speaker 1: clowns comes in. I don't know what the group name

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Speaker 1: for clowns is. You know how there's like a parliament

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Speaker 1: of owls and unkindness of ravens, clowns, a murder of clowns,

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Speaker 1: a car of clowns, a honk of clowns. I like

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Speaker 1: murder of clowns. So here in the US, the fear

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Speaker 1: of clowns eventually, too long ago, reached a boiling point.

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Speaker 1: It became a national and then international panic. Here are

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Speaker 1: the facts. Our story today starts on August first, twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: in Green Bay, Wisconsin, five photos of what appeared to

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Speaker 1: be a creepy clown surfaced. This clown was wandering, literally

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Speaker 1: wandering around a parking lot under a bridge somewhere in

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Speaker 1: Green Bay, and this went viral thanks to the Internet.

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Speaker 1: We can only conjecture that it must have been a

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Speaker 1: slow news cycle, because the pictures got national media attention.

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Speaker 1: Fox News was all over at USA Today was all

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Speaker 1: over it. Eventually The New York Times was writing about this.

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Speaker 1: Shortly after August fifth. A Facebook page pertaining to the

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Speaker 1: pictures or purporting to pertain to the picture's surface, and

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Speaker 1: they said the name of this clown is Gags. Gag. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, and it wasn't just any clown. It looked

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Speaker 2: to be someone who was purposefully trying to be creepy,

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Speaker 2: right because the character, this person whoever, was wearing all

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Speaker 2: of this makeup and everything. It wasn't like your cutesy

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Speaker 2: clown makeup. There were some there's an edge to it

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Speaker 2: that appeared to be sinister in some way. And I

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Speaker 2: believe it was what the character was holding balloons.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, nah, not your vibe. Huh, that's not a

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Speaker 1: lick you're going for. Yeah, it's a very good point, Matt.

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Speaker 1: It was purposely done up like a scary Halloween clown,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, not like a fun welcome

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Speaker 1: to McDonald's clown, which I would argue was also still

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Speaker 1: pretty creepy. Here's what happens. Numerous pundits speculate on this story,

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Speaker 1: and because the is not very much in the way

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Speaker 1: of solid factual reporting here, there's just not much to

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Speaker 1: the story other than these five creepy pictures and a

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Speaker 1: Facebook page. At this point, pundits are going wild. They're saying,

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Speaker 1: what's going on here? Is this a childish prank? Is

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Speaker 1: this alone unhinged lunatic? Is this part of something larger.

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Speaker 1: We'll get back to that, but first, here's Carol with

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Speaker 1: the weather, that kind of stuff or is it an

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Speaker 1: attempt at gorilla marketing? And it turned out it turned

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Speaker 1: out that our story gets sewed up in a pretty

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Speaker 1: i would say, relieving way.

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Speaker 3: So eight days later, a filmmaker by the name of

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Speaker 3: Adam Krause actually came forward and revealed that this was

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Speaker 3: nothing but a marketing stunt. He and his crew were

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Speaker 3: actually filming a short piece called Gags the Clown and

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Speaker 3: Bloody Disgusting, which is a horror blog quoted Kraus as saying,

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Speaker 3: we filmed the short and secret and released photos of

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Speaker 3: the sightings quote quote because I wanted to convince my

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Speaker 3: town that there was a creepy clown wandering the streets

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Speaker 3: late at night. We released the pictures August first, twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 3: and it blew up from that point on. It went

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Speaker 3: viral very quickly. I announced that it was just a

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Speaker 3: short film eight days later, but that didn't stop the

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Speaker 3: craze from kicking into high gear. What do you guys think,

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Speaker 3: Is this a form of terrorism like it? Should there

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Speaker 3: be some burden of responsibility on individual like this? That

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Speaker 3: is doing something that is legitimately terrorizing a town.

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Speaker 1: There's not a way to make it illegal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say. According to Captain Kevin Warwick

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Speaker 2: Wryh of the Green Bay Police Department where this was

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Speaker 2: first occurring, where gags made the appearances and the Facebook

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Speaker 2: group started and everything, he said, this person is not

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Speaker 2: breaking the law. He can walk in a clown costume

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Speaker 2: anywhere he wants.

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Speaker 3: You can't call it like menacing or something like that.

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Speaker 3: What point had something become menacing? I know that's a crime.

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Speaker 1: If someone's loitering, or if someone is giving the reasonable

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Speaker 1: if there's reasonable suspicion or that they would be about

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Speaker 1: to commit a crime, right, So, and that's tough to

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Speaker 1: prosecute one. I don't want to lose this part though,

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Speaker 1: because Kraus did say this is for my film.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, after it's like known or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like every time we see

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Speaker 1: a red meat headline in the news, only to see

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Speaker 1: it corrected on page thirty two of the next issue

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Speaker 1: of the paper, or thrown in at the very end

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Speaker 1: and find print on a website for a broadcast news show.

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Speaker 1: People just don't care about their attractions and there we go.

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Speaker 1: All's well, that ends well, right, This wasn't the first

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Speaker 1: time viral marketing had fooled unsuspecting denizens of the Internet

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Speaker 1: or the media. Shout out to Blair Witch Project, which

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Speaker 1: I think is one of the most famous recent examples.

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Speaker 1: But those clown sightings did not stop in Green Bay, Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: In fact, they escalated kind of the way that you

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Speaker 1: know one like one of my favorite songs in the

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Speaker 1: Hall of Mountain King escalates du Da Dada.

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Speaker 2: And things really did get weirder after that because it

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Speaker 2: inspired not it inspired people, but it also made those

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Speaker 2: creative juices flow about what could I do that would

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Speaker 2: be even creepier.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to pause here for our usual ad break.

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Speaker 1: This one is a little different today because Matt, you

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Speaker 1: and I were thinking about this. We're talking about this

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Speaker 1: great clown panic, but one of today's sponsors is addressing

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Speaker 1: a more personal panic that occurs to a lot of

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Speaker 2: Right, you know, Ben, we've been talking about people panicking

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Speaker 2: about things that are out there in the world that

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Speaker 2: may or may not be real. We're gonna explore it

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Speaker 2: a little more as we continue the episode. But something

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Speaker 2: there is the fear and panic involved with losing your hair.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Matt. Two out of three men will experience

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Speaker 2: You've heard it, Keeps, Yeah, I have. And it's really

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Speaker 2: cool because you used to have to go to the

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Speaker 2: doctor and talk to somebody and say, you know, hey,

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Speaker 2: I think I'm dealing with this. What can we do?

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Speaker 2: But thanks to KEEPS, you don't have to physically go

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Speaker 1: All right. Yeah, just like clown attacks, prevention is key here.

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Speaker 1: hair they used to have.

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Speaker 2: So while you're sitting there wherever, you are, either peering

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Speaker 2: out a window or looking, you know, down the alleyways

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Speaker 2: in fear of all those clowns that may be lurking

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Speaker 1: And whether you are on your phone or not, there's

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Speaker 1: That's k e e p S dot com slash conspiracy.

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Speaker 2: Again, that's k E E P s dot com slash conspiracy.

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Speaker 2: Now let's get back to those clowns.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. That's right. Clown sightings began

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Speaker 1: to pop up all around the country, and they were

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Speaker 1: unrelated to the short film from Wisconsin. The next widely

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Speaker 1: reported creepy clown sightings occurred in Greenville, South Carolina.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, on August twenty first, twenty sixteen, there was an

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Speaker 3: alleged clown sighting in Greenville at the Fleetwood Manor apartment complex.

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Speaker 3: When I was originally reading this, I was really wishing

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Speaker 3: it was at the Fleetwood Mac concert. That would have

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Speaker 3: been cool. But no, in this complex, children reported witnessing

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Speaker 3: clowns or a group of clowns. A murder of clowns.

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Speaker 3: Is that we decided on a gaggle of clowns attempting

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Speaker 3: to whisper or talk to the children. Now, that's got

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Speaker 3: to be not cool, right, that's come on, that's.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's so it's so strange because at this

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Speaker 2: point the the image and the role of a clown

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Speaker 2: has been relegated to things like children's parties. Still that

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Speaker 2: that's where you will maybe find a clown, or maybe

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Speaker 2: at the circus or the rodeo, maybe a swingers club

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Speaker 2: or my basement, but wherever it is.

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Speaker 3: Well, But culturally we've like flipped the script where now

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Speaker 3: I think people first and foremost think of clowns as

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Speaker 3: creepy demon child eaters as opposed to you know, friendly

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Speaker 3: child performers.

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Speaker 1: We do.

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Speaker 2: But again, like, if you you can go online right

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Speaker 2: now and hire a clown to do a children's party,

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Speaker 2: that is one of the main things you can do.

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Speaker 2: So if there are clowns out in let's say, in

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Speaker 2: a part complex somewhere talking to kids, if you're not

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Speaker 2: aware of some kids party that's happening, maybe that's all

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Speaker 2: it is. I'm just saying it's it's tough because it

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Speaker 2: also creeps me out personally, and I wouldn't like it

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Speaker 2: if my son was there and saw some clowns that

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Speaker 2: were trying to whisper to him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, he's the thing of what they were whispering.

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Speaker 3: And the children told their parents are the clowns who,

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Speaker 3: by the way, were set up with these flashing green

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Speaker 3: laser lights. They told the children that they lived in

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Speaker 3: an abandoned house in the woods near a small lake.

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Speaker 1: As you do. Uh huh, small talk conversation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: See, that's where it becomes terrifying, right.

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Speaker 1: And the police did investigate, and they did find a

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Speaker 1: trail in the nearby woods, and the trail did lead

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Speaker 1: to a house. There was a small lake by the house.

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Speaker 1: But at this point, no evidence of clowns or any

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Speaker 1: evidence of clown paraphernalia was ever found. So there wasn't

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Speaker 1: even a bottle of seltzer or anything.

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Speaker 2: That is so funny to me, no evidence of clowns

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Speaker 2: was discovered.

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Speaker 1: I love or paraphernalia.

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Speaker 3: I love that the notion of clown paraphernag like.

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Speaker 1: There's one size sixteen shoe, Yeah, just on the trail.

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Speaker 1: And this is strange because it's we we have to

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Speaker 1: think of the children and the complex, and then we

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Speaker 1: have to think of their families too. What do you

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Speaker 1: do when the police throw up their hands and say, well,

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Speaker 1: we we couldn't find any clowns or clown paraphernalia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but we will be patrolling I guess for the

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Speaker 2: next couple days.

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Speaker 1: We'll keep an eye out. South Carolina, though, is far

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Speaker 1: from a unique case. Over the next few months, reports

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Speaker 1: of creepy, suspicious sketch clowns popped up in every single

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Speaker 1: US state and Puerto Rico as well. The Guardian was

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Speaker 1: following this story. They had some great articles on this.

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Speaker 1: They describe it thustly. They say clowns began to terrorize

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Speaker 1: children and sometimes attack people, while commentators spoke of panic

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Speaker 1: and hysteria. In Pennsylvania, a teenager was reported to have

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Speaker 1: been murdered by someone in a clown mask, although police

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Speaker 1: later said it was the victim who had the mask.

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Speaker 1: So still, in this time of panic, just having a

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Speaker 1: clown mask in play during the crime is enough for

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Speaker 1: this to be lumped into lumped into the same phenomenon

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Speaker 1: of reporting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can see here where if something goes

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Speaker 2: viral enough anywhere in the world and it gets shared

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Speaker 2: enough on let's say international social media or internationally accessible

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Speaker 2: social media, it's kind of what we've been talking about.

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Speaker 2: You can see where people will think, oh, well, how

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Speaker 2: do I make a post or something, or how do

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Speaker 2: I make something happen in my local town that's also

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Speaker 2: going to get me or this famous through my post,

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Speaker 2: because it really did go fully international after that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing. The spark was lit all in

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Speaker 1: all people in eighteen. Different countries other than the US

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Speaker 1: started reporting clown sightings over the course of twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: and these were You know, it's weird because we know

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Speaker 1: the panic in the US has a discrete start date.

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Speaker 1: It's August first, twenty sixteen, but we also see some

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Speaker 1: preceding attacks or similar instances in Europe. In twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 1: there was a creepy clown sited in Northampton, England, and

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Speaker 1: these sightings occurred in the town for two months September

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Speaker 1: and October. They were also the work of filmmakers. But

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Speaker 1: the stuff that we see happening after the US panic

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Speaker 1: catches fire internationally. This stuff is genuine, like crime in

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Speaker 1: Ontario and Canada, people dressed up as clowns and were

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Speaker 1: chasing children and when they got dismissed from school, and

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Speaker 1: then someone dressed as a clown was chasing down a

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Speaker 1: group of people in Chile with a baseball bat. People

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Speaker 1: started using clown makeup and clown mask as a go

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Speaker 1: to disguise in their criminal endeavors.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was reading a story about in Norway people

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Speaker 2: were reporting that they would see weapon wielding clowns chasing

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Speaker 2: cars and stuff and apparently it really did catch on

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Speaker 2: in a couple of places in Scandinavia.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in Sweden and October twelfth there was someone dressed

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Speaker 1: as a clown who stabbed a teenage boy with a knife,

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Speaker 1: and there were some other stabbings across the world. Luckily

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Speaker 1: these appeared to be isolated incidents. Here's the thing, though,

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Speaker 1: the international community reacted pretty strongly to this. There was

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Speaker 1: a protest held by professional clowns in a Rio Grande

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Speaker 1: dus Soul in Brazil. And here I believe it's time

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Speaker 1: for us to make a note. In the interest of fairness,

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Speaker 1: we have to say hashtag not all clowns. There's a

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Speaker 1: huge industry of people who work professionally as clowns, you know,

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Speaker 1: in circus trained academy, dellate trained. And these folks have

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Speaker 1: no interest in committing crimes, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: And they certainly don't want to be saddled with the

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Speaker 1: stereotype that they want to say. You know, it's a

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Speaker 1: job for them. They're not going to dress up and

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Speaker 1: wait in the woods to clown at children in the dark.

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Speaker 1: That would be like us waiting waiting in the woods

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Speaker 1: and then podcasting people hopefully less scary way more nerdy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean no, you're right. It's a it's a

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Speaker 2: profession and in a lot of times, in a lot

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Speaker 2: of cases of passion for the individual. And there's a

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Speaker 2: quote here from this article in sputneknews dot com and

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Speaker 2: it says this trend has a really unpleasant impact on

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Speaker 2: us as professionals of this art. I and my colleagues

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Speaker 2: in this state appear at various events, for example, at

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Speaker 2: birthday celebrations, and when we go out in the street

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Speaker 2: or arrive at these celebrations, people are looking at us strangely,

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Speaker 2: and you can imagine how that would affect you. And

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Speaker 2: it goes on to say this has started to affect me.

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Speaker 2: Customers are canceling work, replacing clowns with something else. This

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Speaker 2: is one of the oldest professions in the world. Our

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Speaker 2: goal is to bring joy to everybody, from babies to

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Speaker 2: one hundred year olds.

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Speaker 1: And this is only one example of a larger global response.

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Speaker 1: On October twelfth of twenty sixteen, the Russian Embassy in

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Speaker 1: London put out an official warning to UK citizens and

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Speaker 1: Russians alike because of the clown scare. So a country

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Speaker 1: state department said, okay, if you're here in London watch

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Speaker 1: Out for clowns.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think of what it's akin to,

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Speaker 2: like an orange alert watch out for smog kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we need a clown watch.

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Speaker 2: The terror watch that we have while there.

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Speaker 1: Like, how many honks is it? You know, watch out?

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Speaker 1: London is a four honk city, So out of context,

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Speaker 1: that probably sounds very strange, but it's it's a good question.

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Speaker 1: You know. This reached state actor level, and then also

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Speaker 1: private industry responded. There were shops in New Zealand that

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Speaker 1: stopped selling clown costumes or banned it. Many schools banned

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Speaker 1: clown costumes or just yeah clown like stuff too, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this also remember this is twenty sixteen, so this

433
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:50,959
Speaker 1: occurs hand in hand with public recognition of the music

434
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 1: fan base, right the insane clown posse fans known as

435
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: juggalos Yes, who also, by the way, did not have

436
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: a big part in this, because again hashtag not all clowns.

437
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

438
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 1: So in October though, this starts to also hit one

439
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: of the most popular clowns in the United States, Ronald

440
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: McDonald is sent to the bench by his fast food

441
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: owners because the heat got to him, he had to

442
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: get a low profile was too hot for Ron, so

443
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: he left the public eye for a little while because

444
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: the last thing McDonald's wanted to be associated with was,

445
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: you know, being bad in any way for children, other than,

446
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: of course the food at McDonald's.

447
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 2: Hey, they've changed their game a little bit.

448
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: Come on, and those fries still, man, they're great.

449
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 2: And honestly, as weird as it sounds, those chicken mcnugs,

450
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 2: I'm telling you.

451
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 1: You think it's nostalgia, No it's not.

452
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 3: It's not.

453
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 1: Part of you is still there now.

454
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: I think they upped their game or something because we

455
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 2: were very do isn't to get right. I'm not promoting

456
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 2: McDonald's right now, I promise you. I'm just saying I

457
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 2: tried one of their chicken McNuggets so that I did

458
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,479
Speaker 2: remember as a child not enjoying. But then they are

459
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 2: much better now, That's all I'm saying.

460
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 1: Well, you know what, Matt, maybe I should give it.

461
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: I should give it another shot. I read a really

462
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: interesting essay about the shape of those McNuggets there. You know,

463
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: their their specific shapes and how they're created. But I'll

464
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 1: still try it. Also, Target pulled clown mask from all

465
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: their stores and from their website, and people started to

466
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 1: look at this in a critical analytical way. They said, Okay,

467
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: these reports don't actually have much in common. They're occurring

468
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: in various parts of the world that are very different

469
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: from one another. They're often not every time, but often

470
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 1: it appears there's no real law that was broken. It's

471
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: just someone being creepy. In most cases amounted to something like, hey,

472
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: there's a suspicious person or group of people dressed in

473
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: a way that makes me uncomfortable. And another common trope

474
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: was that these clowns appeared to be, as you said,

475
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 1: no menacing people, and in many cases they were reported

476
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: as giving chase, although sometimes the victims would change their

477
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 1: story and say, I thought this clown was gonna chase me.

478
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: It was just standing there.

479
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 3: But there's a ton of YouTube prank videos. Yeah, creepy

480
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 3: clowns chasing people like.

481
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 1: A lot, and those are for humor, right, they're for humor.

482
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 3: But at the time, I'm assuming the person featured has

483
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 3: to sign a release afterwards or something like that to

484
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 3: be featured.

485
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: But several of those the faces of the victims are

486
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 2: so they didn't get permission. I would just say that

487
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: that is illegal.

488
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 3: That strikes me as illegal.

489
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 2: That is a form of terrorism in a way, if

490
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: you were going to scare someone out of their wits

491
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 2: by dressing up as creepily as you can, setting up

492
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 2: a camera and then chasing somebody while they are in

493
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: fear for their life.

494
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: And some people can see that as humorous, but we

495
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: have to remember those folks who are being chased, or

496
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: those folks who are being menaced, are genuinely frightened. You know,

497
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: they're terrified.

498
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: And I would say, if you find that funny, maybe

499
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: do some reevaluating.

500
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 3: That's all.

501
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: Well, we can't emphasize this enough. There really were people

502
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: dressed as clowns, and they really were stalking and in

503
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: some cases attacking folks across the planet. By October twenty fifth,

504
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, a little more than three years ago exactly now,

505
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: as you're listening to this news pundits were so deep

506
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: in this story that they started reporting and alleged to

507
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: get this clown led purge or large scale attacks set

508
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: to take place on Halloween. What's interesting about this kind

509
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: of news story is that it really doesn't take much

510
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: for something to be alleged. It could be an anonymous

511
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: tip to the news station that has no follow up,

512
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: So it could literally be anyone calling it's incredibly unethical.

513
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: But it could also be someone from the news station

514
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: who was like, we need some hot for Saturday. So

515
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: luckily there were no documented wide scale purges. However, on

516
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: October thirty, first Halloween twenty sixteen, a family in you

517
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: guessed at, Florida was attacked in mass by a group

518
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: of people dressed as clowns wearing clown mask. They were

519
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: attacked by about twenty people.

520
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: That's insane. Allegedly, they were checking their car right when

521
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 2: this happened was like eleven pm at night. Then all

522
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 2: of a sudden, these people show up.

523
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, you know we all have we all have

524
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: a pretty good fortitude stats. You know, if we're D

525
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: and D characters, we don't scare particularly easy. But even

526
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: for us, getting run up on by twenty people, trust

527
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: a clowns, that's a lot. That's a lot, especially if

528
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: they are if they are armed blades or with you know,

529
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: blunt objects or god forbid guns.

530
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean one of the people. Okay, So

531
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 2: let's just talk about that. It was a it was

532
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: a group of people in a car. I think it

533
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 2: was five people in a car, maybe more, and they

534
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 2: like hit something in the car. Right, they're in their truck.

535
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: They're in this big truck. They hit something in the truck.

536
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 2: They got out to check out what it was. They

537
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: got As they exited their vehicle to check on everything,

538
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: they get attacked by a bunch of people wearing masks,

539
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 2: some of them clown asked. Some of them appear to

540
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 2: be what they would call purge masks. One of the

541
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 2: victims got stabbed in the head and another one got

542
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 2: hit in the head with a hockey stick. It was

543
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 2: a real brutal attack, that is this is just an

544
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: awful thing that occurred. And apparently one of the one

545
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: of the victims, one of the people who got attacked,

546
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: recognized some team that was a part of the.

547
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: Group, right yeah. Jeff Brown, who is one of the victims,

548
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: said that the group of clowns had a knife, hockey sticks, clubs, bats,

549
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: and he was He said they were probably just looking

550
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: for anyone who would get stopped at the light. And

551
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: he said they was able to lift one of the

552
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: masks of a team off in the struggle and recognize

553
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: the kid as a kid from his neighborhood. As far

554
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: as we know, no arrest were made, at least at

555
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: the time of the stories reporting, so we don't know

556
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: what happened with that. But we bring this example here

557
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: to emphasize that unlikes the Unlike some other outbreaks of

558
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: hysteria or global panics, there were genuine crimes happening here.

559
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: There were people conspiring to dress up as clowns and

560
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: attack maybe random people, maybe people that they had their

561
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: eye on for one reason or another. So these sightings

562
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: were real. But what exactly was happening. We'll attempt to

563
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: answer that after a word from our sponsors. Okay, so

564
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: was the I'll say it, I'll take the bullet on

565
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: this one. Was this actually some sort of I can't

566
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: believe I'm saying this clown conspiracy to upset the status

567
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: quo in some way through random acts of violence?

568
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, like a Project Mayhem type thing, but with clowns maybe?

569
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: Yeah? Maybe? I mean, was this perhaps some sort of

570
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: Juggalo esque protest. Again, as far as we know, the

571
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: Juggalo community was not involved with this panic, but you

572
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, was it some sort of

573
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 1: thing that got spun into a different narrative by the media,

574
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: or was this just another example of mass hysteria like

575
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: the satanic panic, you know, like as we learned in

576
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 1: our recent True True Detective episode, which is still either

577
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: my least or my most favorite title recently, as we

578
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: learned there there's often more to the story than we

579
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: see reported in the news. To answer our question about

580
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: this phenomenon, it's actually best for us to begin from

581
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: a folklore angle. There's a guy named Benjamin Radford go

582
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: Benz who is the author of a book called Bad Clowns,

583
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: and in his work, Radford busts some myths that we

584
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: have about clowning in the modern day. Specifically, he writes,

585
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: it is misleading to ask when clowns turned bad, they

586
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: were never real good, because although the word chorophobia comes

587
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: about in the nineties, the thing is clowns have been

588
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: around forever in myth and folklore, in unrelated cultures. People

589
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: who had never met before they had things like clowns,

590
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: but they were often antagonistic. They were deceivers, they were tricksters.

591
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: They were associated with entering the edge of the edge

592
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: of civilization, speaking hidden truths. They were associated with infernal

593
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: powers at times, and Let's also consider Alex Pentlands, author

594
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: of a book called Social Physics, How Good Ideas Spread.

595
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: He says the clown phenomenon is in some ways just

596
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: the standard craze. He compares it actually to planking. You

597
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: guys remember planking.

598
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's when you delay flat on a thing, right.

599
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I walked in our old office one time.

600
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 1: I walked into our rec room and I learned about

601
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: planking because as least as an exercise, because I saw

602
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: about fifteen or more of our colleagues, not speaking, just

603
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: laying on the floor, propped on their elbows, and I

604
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do. But I stood there for

605
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: a second. No one said anything, no one looked at me,

606
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: and so I decided the most prudent move was to

607
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: walk out backwards, and that's what I did.

608
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 2: Definitely keep an eye on everyone.

609
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 3: It was like a flash mob type phenomenon for a while.

610
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 3: Whe people would like plank on different things, like a

611
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 3: cabinet or something, and you'd walk in. It was an

612
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 3: episode of the Office about it. Hm hmm, that's that's

613
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 3: all I got on planking.

614
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but it just speaks to a larger thing

615
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 2: when it's kind of what I was saying earlier, when

616
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 2: there's a trending phenomena like that, it is in our

617
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 2: nature to want to be a part of the group,

618
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 2: and you know, glom onto it in a way or

619
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 2: show your uniqueness by doing this thing in a way

620
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 2: that only you would do or could do. And you know,

621
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 2: we're we're just basically comparing that, And it's kind of

622
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 2: what Pentland is doing here saying that this is what

623
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 2: the clown thing was. It was another ice bucket challenge.

624
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: Right right. But he also said this fad, this clown

625
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 1: sighting craze also hit upon a deeply buried cultural meme.

626
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,240
Speaker 1: He said, children are scared of clowns, so this gives

627
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:32,760
Speaker 1: it more virality than another thing like an ice bucket challenge.

628
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 1: Not you know, more people were probably terrified of clowns

629
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: than are of ice buckets.

630
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 3: Did you hear that the ice bucket challenge is a

631
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 3: conspiracy theory about it?

632
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 1: I did, Yeah, yeah, yeah, what is it?

633
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 3: There's a say I think it was just this one

634
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 3: kind of fringy writer Selina Owen's on a world Net

635
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 3: daily accusing it of being some sort of satanic ritual

636
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 3: tricking people into I don't know, exactly. The logic is there,

637
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 3: But you can you can you can call anything. Any

638
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 3: of these viral phenomenon could be construed to some sort

639
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 3: of mass ritual, right, I mean that's sort of what

640
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 3: it is. Is people glom onto it and they recreate it,

641
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 3: like the flash mobs versus the creepy clowns versus the planking,

642
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 3: any of that kind of stuff. You could look at

643
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 3: as some sort of weird collective, unconscious kind of like dance.

644
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 5: Right.

645
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, anything can be a ritual, and anything

646
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: could be a satanic ritual, you know, if you have

647
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: the right attitude about it. Isn't magic all about intentionality

648
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: in theory? That's a callback to uh, what was that

649
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: our magic debate on Harmontown. Yeah, So with this in mind,

650
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: when we look at it from a folkloric perspective, we

651
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: see another salient point. Also from the Guardian, again they

652
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 1: cover this like four or five different times, and they

653
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,359
Speaker 1: said they also attributed part of the panic to the

654
00:38:54,400 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: ways in which it was described by print and broadcast media.

655
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: They said, consider how charged the vocabulary of the reports

656
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: will be when you hear this on your evening news.

657
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: They don't say someone saw a clown. They refer to

658
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: these things as sightings. Yeah, the same way you would

659
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: say someone cited there was a UFO sighting or a

660
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: locknest sighting, And it mythologizes these human beings when really

661
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: they're just people in costumes.

662
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they can do it wherever they want as

663
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 2: long as they're not hurting anybody.

664
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: And then the idea. Okay, So the Mirror over in

665
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: the UK reports this, you know, in the early days

666
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 1: of the panic spreading to the United Kingdom, they say,

667
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,720
Speaker 1: quote in one of their headlines, creepy clowns approach girls

668
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: walking to school and terrifying UK craze was this was

669
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: a variant of the first sentence in the article, because

670
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: the first sentence in the article in the or says

671
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: two schoolgirls were approached by two creepy clowns yesterday as

672
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: the terrifying American craze hits the UK. It's true that

673
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:14,320
Speaker 1: it was already quote American craze, but the headline calling

674
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: it a terrifying UK craze wasn't true because there had

675
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: only been a couple of incidents. Yeah, how many incidents

676
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: make a craze? Right? Like when when does a hill

677
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: become a mountain kind of question.

678
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,919
Speaker 3: Right after it's a mole hill, right, it goes straight

679
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 3: from mole hill to mountain.

680
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: And what's the size of a heap? You know what

681
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: I mean. Yeah, there's linguistic ambiguity there, But it also

682
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,439
Speaker 1: could be kind of a self fulfilling prophecy to call

683
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: this thing a craze before it happens. I mean, you know,

684
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: if Paul Mission controlled Decan and I go to Applebee's

685
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: after this, and then we start calling it the new

686
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: Applebee's craze that's sweeping the nation, would more people be

687
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 1: likely to go because they want to To your point, Matt,

688
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 1: be part of the conversation.

689
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: I think you're right. I think you might have to

690
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 2: add in a few more people. If you've got like

691
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: five posts that said the new Applebee's craze, I think

692
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 2: you've got something going there.

693
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: Not an advertisement for Applebee's, right, nor McDonald's nor McDonald's.

694
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: But in this case, what we see, what we see

695
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: very quickly is the clown stuff itself is exactly as

696
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: we described. It's sort of a viral phenomenon that to

697
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: your point, no people glombed onto sometimes to assist in

698
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: the execution of crimes they were already probably planning to do.

699
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: In other cases, it was people who said, we want

700
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: to prank some folks. But when we look into the

701
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:56,439
Speaker 1: psychological causes, the socio political environment and soil in which

702
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,919
Speaker 1: this thing exists and grows, then we see there's more

703
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: to the story. We've talked about this before, and this

704
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: is probably just my own crippling cynicism. But anytime I

705
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: see something that is not terrible go viral, I assume

706
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: that it's being pushed to cover up some real horrific,

707
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 1: terrible thing happening.

708
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 3: I don't think you're far off, Ben, you know, so, No, No,

709
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,439
Speaker 3: although it is hard to predict virality, I will say that, yeah,

710
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 3: you know the intentions, it may be that, but it's

711
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 3: like no one can guarantee a viral smash. Otherwise, you know,

712
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 3: they'd be hiring those people left and right.

713
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: So I've got a theory about this whole thing that

714
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 2: I want to present to you guys, all right, laid

715
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 2: on me. Okay, here are the facts of Matt's theory.

716
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 3: This we call the section Matt's facts.

717
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 2: Yes, sure, this is the These are Matt's facts. So

718
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 2: we've got the gags the clown incident that occurs when

719
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 2: is it October? Is it October or is it September

720
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen?

721
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: Though right, the first one occurs in Green Bay, Wisconsin,

722
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: August first, twenty sixteen.

723
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 2: So that's August early August twenty six, twenty sixteen. Then

724
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: almost a year later, a year and a month later,

725
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 2: the remake of Stephen King's It comes out, a major

726
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 2: Hollywood production with massive marketing arms behind it. Okay, it

727
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 2: would be beneficial for the people making it to reignite

728
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 2: people's fear of clowns.

729
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 3: Well, you know about the phony clown protest, Right, the

730
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 3: phony clown protest was phony. According to Vanity Fair, a

731
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 3: clown rally against the IT movie was actually a publicity

732
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 3: stunt for the IT movie. The new IT adaptations have

733
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 3: probably been causing problems for real life clowns, whose businesses

734
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 3: have allegedly suffered as a whole new generation of kids

735
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 3: sour to Bozo's of the world, so it was hardly

736
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 3: surprised when clowns planned to gather and rally against It

737
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 3: in New York. It turns out, however, that the rally

738
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 3: was a fake, nothing more than a publicity stun in

739
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 3: promotion of the very movie it claimed to be raging against.

740
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 2: See. So this is what I'm saying, you guys, What

741
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 2: if this entire thing, starting with gags and the short

742
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 2: film or whatever was occurring, there was all away to

743
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 2: get clowns back into our zeitgeist immediately the forefront of

744
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 2: our minds, so that it would come out and we

745
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 2: would have to go see it.

746
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,839
Speaker 1: That's interesting. I don't I'm honest. I'm gonna be honest

747
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 1: with you, man, I don't know if I'm one hundred

748
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: percent on board with it, because it feels like when

749
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: real acts of violence started to occur, the company or

750
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 1: studio involved would want to distance themselves.

751
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: Well, that's why they never admitted to doing it. That's

752
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 2: why they never admitted to starting the whole craze. See.

753
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: Okay, so there on a we didn't start the fire y.

754
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, they went, oh, oh, somebody got stabbed in the head.

755
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 1: We're out, and we're out. Nobody say anything until the

756
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: trailer releases. I mean maybe maybe perhaps I will say though,

757
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: because I know I'm sounding a bit conspiratorial here and

758
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: it is just my opinion, I will say that now

759
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,439
Speaker 1: more than ever to steal the line from Fox News.

760
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: Yet again, it is now more than ever, it is

761
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: surprisingly easy for some people to influence virality and to

762
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: determine which stories are seen. If anyone listening believes that

763
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:31,919
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg cannot literally ping someone at Facebook and say

764
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: kill this story and promote this one, then you are

765
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: being offensively naive like that. Because there's so few people

766
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:44,359
Speaker 1: who control the faucets of information at this point, then

767
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: clearly it could happen. I'm not saying it does. I'm

768
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: not saying this is a case in which that occurs.

769
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: But I'm saying the reality is there, and to think

770
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 1: otherwise is at this point to be wilfully ignorant of

771
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 1: the reality.

772
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:00,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I would agree. There are a lot of

773
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 2: levers to be pulled within the realms of social media

774
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 2: in places where you can post things and then have

775
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 2: them become viral.

776
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,879
Speaker 1: Or what if met? What if? What if you're right

777
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: and you're even more right than the original theory? What

778
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: if this all dating back to twenty sixteen. Arguably twenty

779
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: thirteen was just one long viral lead up to the

780
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 1: Yaquing Phoenix Joker film.

781
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 3: Or maybe there's clown film collusion maybe all of the

782
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,240
Speaker 3: studios that have on their slates of content clown content,

783
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 3: they've all gotten together to perpetrate this conspiracy against the American.

784
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: Public CFC Clown Film Collusion.

785
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think it was Stephen King himself in

786
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 2: the gags, the clown costume.

787
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 3: Now he doesn't leave his manner, Oh okay.

788
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 2: And then it was Joe Hill himself.

789
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 1: And it's tough to tell the difference. You know, if

790
00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:59,479
Speaker 1: you just saw those guys walk it down the street,

791
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: Joe Hill, do us look like a young Stephen King?

792
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: Does he really? Yes?

793
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 3: I've never seen it very.

794
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 1: Much physically, Yeah, yeah, very very much.

795
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 3: That's unfortunate. What Stephen King is a funny looking dude?

796
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 3: Always want to You don't think so?

797
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 2: What a handsome devil Stephen King? You're kidding me, I don't,

798
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 2: I don't.

799
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 3: I think Stephen King himself would acknowledge that he's a

800
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 3: funny looking dude. Have you seen Creep Show or he

801
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 3: plays the weird guy?

802
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, but uh, but I think he tells great stories.

803
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 1: Shout out to by the way, that's right, Shout out

804
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: to Rob.

805
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 3: I just got a free trial to shut her.

806
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: Oh it's great.

807
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 3: Just so I can watch, So I can watch creep

808
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 3: shreap show, and I'm very much excited to do so.

809
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: Report back if you can't, Let's know what you think

810
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: when you see it. I will. Indeed, this leads us

811
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 1: to a question that we can't really answer today, A

812
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: couple of questions, and one of them is this, does

813
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: the access to aubiquitous information give us more of an

814
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: ability to think critically about things? Or does it give

815
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:02,439
Speaker 1: us more of an opportunity to spread and transmit our

816
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: own fears to other populations?

817
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 3: Well, it's both, right, depends on how you use it

818
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 3: and how you handle it, how you comport yourself in

819
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 3: this our internet age.

820
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,919
Speaker 1: But which of those two, I agree? Which of those

821
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 1: two do we see happening more often? Yeah?

822
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:21,479
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, I think it's the latter. Right.

823
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm right there with you. But we still have

824
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 1: hope for the future. Right, And we know that outbreaks

825
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: of widespread public hysteria are surprisingly common in the historical record.

826
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: We've got this great book about it that I lug

827
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: around sometimes. And if this odd story about the Great

828
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: Clown Panic of twenty sixteen, as The Guardian called it,

829
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: if this odd story leads us to anything. It's one

830
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: crucial question, what new panic looms on the horizon, And

831
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't wait

832
00:48:58,120 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts.

833
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 3: It's right let us know what you think. You can

834
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 3: reach to the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on

835
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 3: Facebook X and YouTube on Instagram and TikTok or Conspiracy

836
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 3: Stuff Show.

837
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 2: If you want to call us dial one eight three

838
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:15,240
Speaker 2: three STDWYTK. That's our voicemail system. You've got three minutes,

839
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 2: give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if

840
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 2: we can use your name and message on the air.

841
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 2: If you got more to say than can fit in

842
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 2: that voicemail, why not instead send us a good old

843
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 2: fashioned email.

844
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 5: We are the entities to read every single piece of

845
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 5: correspondence we receive.

846
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:31,760
Speaker 3: Be aware, yet not afraid.

847
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 5: Sometimes the void writes back conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

848
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to know is a production

849
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,839
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850
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851
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