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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom Never told you?

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Speaker 1: From house stuff works dot com. Hello, Welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: This is Molly and I'm Kristin Christina and talk about

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Speaker 1: breast milk. Breast milk. I've already done one podcast on breastfeeding, yes,

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Speaker 1: and we pretty much focused on the benefits, or you know,

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Speaker 1: the alleged benefits, because some people aren't completely sold on it.

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Speaker 1: Of feeding milk to your child through your breast, the bonding,

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Speaker 1: the fatty uh minerals that go through to the to

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Speaker 1: the baby. But there's someone out there who can't breastfeed,

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Speaker 1: and there's someone out there who make a ton of

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Speaker 1: excess breast milk, and there's some babies who can't drink formula.

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Speaker 1: Can all these people meet in the middle, And that

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Speaker 1: is what this podcast is about. Because we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about breast milk banks, we're gonna talk about breast milk swaps,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about selling your breast milk, yes, And

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Speaker 1: we're not going to get into, like Molly said, the

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Speaker 1: pros and the potential cons of breastfeeding, where the breast

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Speaker 1: is best, and all of that debate we have a

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Speaker 1: separate episode where we cover all those points. We're just

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Speaker 1: gonna stick to the banking and the bank and all

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Speaker 1: the extra stuff. So let's start with the milk banks,

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Speaker 1: which are I was surprised to find kind of a

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Speaker 1: big historical thing. Um. The first milk bank was established

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Speaker 1: in Vienna, Austria in nineteen o nine, and by nineteen

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Speaker 1: nineteen there was one in Boston and another in Germany.

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Speaker 1: And basically in the early twenty century, there were a

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Speaker 1: lot of ill and premature children, and the mothers who

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Speaker 1: could make extra milk were asked to give it to

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Speaker 1: those sick babies, and the sick babies thrived. So people

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Speaker 1: were like, hey, it seems like maybe if we can

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Speaker 1: give some excess breast milk to the sick babies who

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Speaker 1: whose mothers maybe can't feed them because they're orphaned or

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Speaker 1: because they were born so prematurely that milk hasn't come in,

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Speaker 1: maybe they will get better. Right. And of course this

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Speaker 1: milk banking, breast milk banking practice traces back to wet nursing,

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Speaker 1: when you know women who couldn't produce would give their

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Speaker 1: or wealthier women would have another milk producing lady breastfeed

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Speaker 1: their child for them. In fact, in the thirteenth century,

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Speaker 1: European women made more money working as wet nurses than

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Speaker 1: any other occupation open to women. But I wonder in

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Speaker 1: the thirteen centuries there were many options. I'm sure there weren't,

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Speaker 1: But the idea of using someone's milk that wasn't your

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Speaker 1: own is a very old concept, and so that's why, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, milk banks eventually came up in that early

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Speaker 1: twenty century, and now there are several located all around

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Speaker 1: the US and all around the world, and they are

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Speaker 1: designed so that women who have excess breast milk can

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Speaker 1: donate it after going through a huge battery of tests,

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Speaker 1: because you can spread infection through best breast milk. They

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Speaker 1: go through the test, they sack up their breast milk

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Speaker 1: in a certain way, and they send it off to

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Speaker 1: the bank, and the bank can then ship it out

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Speaker 1: to premature infants, orphans, people who have immune deficiencies because

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Speaker 1: breast milk might help them. And there are a ton

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Speaker 1: of actual stories where it just really helps those infants

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Speaker 1: thrive in a very hard situation. Right For instance, um,

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Speaker 1: they think that premature babies for fed breast milk will

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Speaker 1: have shorter stays up to fifteen days on average in

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Speaker 1: neonatal intensive care units, and they're less likely to develop

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Speaker 1: retina problems that can lead to poor vision. And they

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Speaker 1: also think that breast milk protects against an intestinal disease

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Speaker 1: that premature infants are especially susceptible to. Now there are

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Speaker 1: some studies that also say that we need more evidence

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Speaker 1: that donor breast milk has such wonderful qualities, because, like

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Speaker 1: you said, there there is risk for infection that can

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Speaker 1: be spread through breast milk, but there has never in

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Speaker 1: this country been an adverse effect after using a breast

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Speaker 1: milk bank, probably because of the amount of testing that

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Speaker 1: milk banks do for their owners and on the milk. However,

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Speaker 1: breast milk, because it is qualified as a food, is

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Speaker 1: not regulated by the f d A or the CDC,

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Speaker 1: so it's it's somewhat of an unregulated industry. But as

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Speaker 1: I said, no safety incidents yet and pretty pricey. And

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Speaker 1: it's pretty pricey, and this is coming from information from

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Speaker 1: the Human Milk Banking Association of North America, which was

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Speaker 1: formed in and it seems like the pretty much the

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Speaker 1: Cornerstone milk Banking organization in the US, and while it

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Speaker 1: isn't FDA regulated, they do a lot of testing not

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Speaker 1: only on the mothers who donate, but then on the

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Speaker 1: milk as well and pasteurized in a very specific kind

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Speaker 1: of way. It's an extensive process and as a result,

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Speaker 1: the milk is not exactly cheap. It typically goes four

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Speaker 1: up to three three dollars to four fifty per ounce.

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Speaker 1: And you think, oh, it's just a few bucks. Well,

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Speaker 1: if your infant is drinking the average thirty ounces per day,

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Speaker 1: that is some pricing milk. It's like golden milk. And

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Speaker 1: insurance doesn't cover this. Yeah, that's one of the next

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Speaker 1: I think fight. We'll see that milk banks try and

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Speaker 1: uh fight is getting insurance companies to cover this. But

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Speaker 1: as you said, these studies are saying, we can't quite

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Speaker 1: be sure yet if all this anecdotal evidence that breast

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Speaker 1: milk is good for babies carries on, if it's just

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Speaker 1: don't or milk, or if it needs to come straight

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Speaker 1: from a woman's the mother's breast, and so on and

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Speaker 1: so forth, but the need is absolutely there. Um. The

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Speaker 1: Human Milk Bank Association of North America h Jim Banna. Um,

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Speaker 1: really they're running low on milk. They saw a nearly

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Speaker 1: fourfold increase in milk distribution from two thousand to two

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Speaker 1: thousand nine, But a lot of the banks dotted around

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Speaker 1: the country, UM are running low. And they're wondering whether

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Speaker 1: these milk banks are running low because of the Internet

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Speaker 1: and something called milk swapping. Yeah, let's say that you

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Speaker 1: have all this excess milk and it doesn't feel right

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Speaker 1: to you to ask some mother of a premature infant

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Speaker 1: to buy it for three fifty announce and you don't

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Speaker 1: want to throw it away. You don't want to throw

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Speaker 1: it away, and you also don't like this idea of

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Speaker 1: like shipping it up and mailing it seems like a

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Speaker 1: big castle. You can turn to the internet, dial up

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Speaker 1: a website and you can find hundreds of communities where

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Speaker 1: women are swapping milk among their own friends and among

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Speaker 1: their own towns. So you can say, instead of shipping

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Speaker 1: the soft where someone has to buy it, I can

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Speaker 1: give it to the baby next door. Then this woman

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Speaker 1: I are going to have, you know, a bond. It

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Speaker 1: builds friendships. It's all free, and milk swaps are sort

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Speaker 1: of the the big thing going on right now. Right

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Speaker 1: A couple of the main groups are eats on feats

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Speaker 1: in milk share, and I think we should also note

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Speaker 1: that people who women who donate to the milk banks

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Speaker 1: through the Milk Bank Association in North America aren't compensated.

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Speaker 1: And it's similar with the milk swap. It's like the

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Speaker 1: recycle thing. You just you're you're trading. I know, I've

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Speaker 1: got this great thing that women need. I can give

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Speaker 1: it to someone who needs it, whether it's you know,

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Speaker 1: a woman down the street who adopted a baby, a

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Speaker 1: woman who had surgery on her breasts and can't produce milk.

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Speaker 1: It's a way to build community quarantities women and to

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Speaker 1: not have to go through all the runaround that a

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Speaker 1: milk bank would make you go through. And there's also

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Speaker 1: a really cool project called the International Breast Milk Project

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Speaker 1: that sends UM breast milk abroad. Is particularly to African

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Speaker 1: mothers because of the prevalence of HIV and AIDS because

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Speaker 1: HIV and AIDS can transfer through breast milk and formula

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Speaker 1: will often be mixed with unclean water. So the International

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Speaker 1: Breast Milk Project provides these African mothers with UM with

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Speaker 1: breast milk that isn't that isn't changed potentially with HIV

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Speaker 1: and AIDS that will then be passed onto their babies. Right.

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Speaker 1: But what the milk banks are saying is that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's great to give the breast milk to a neighbor.

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Speaker 1: It's wonderful that we want to donate breast milk abroad.

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Speaker 1: But the reason that their breast milk costs three ounce

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Speaker 1: is they're underwriting all that testing that a donor goes through.

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Speaker 1: And so that's sort of the big controversies that in

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Speaker 1: a milk swap you don't have to go through all

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Speaker 1: that testing. You're kind of trusting a woman who, yes,

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Speaker 1: is breastfeeding her own child, but you know, could you

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Speaker 1: possibly passing on some sort of disease or infection to

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Speaker 1: your own And in addition just to the screening that

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Speaker 1: mothers who are donating to the milk banks have to

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Speaker 1: go through, there's also a pasteurization process that will eliminate

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Speaker 1: bacteria from the breast milk, and then they will fur

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Speaker 1: their test samples for bacterial growth, and then the milk

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Speaker 1: will be sealed in four ounce glass bottles and delivered

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Speaker 1: frozen to a milk bank so it's it's a much

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Speaker 1: more rigorous process. Yeah, so someone are saying it's better

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Speaker 1: for me just to be able to walk down the

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Speaker 1: street and give the breast milk to someone in my

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Speaker 1: community who needs it. And as with most things involving breastfeeding,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of controversial. Should you milk bank, should you

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Speaker 1: milk swap um, It's it's kind of a big debate

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Speaker 1: right now in terms of what you should do with

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Speaker 1: all this excess milk, and perhaps one of the most

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Speaker 1: controversial options of what to do with excess breast milk,

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Speaker 1: should you sell it? Sell it? Money's gotta go. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you've just had a baby, you can't really work. Maybe

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Speaker 1: maybe you can make a lot of money. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if it's fetching, if it's fetching three bucks and ounce.

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Speaker 1: There is a story about this in Wired magazine and

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Speaker 1: it profiled one woman who is she was a single mom.

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Speaker 1: I think she was putting herself through school. She discovered

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Speaker 1: that she could sell her breast milk online. And she

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Speaker 1: only an organic diet, took care of herself, you know,

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Speaker 1: it didn't smoke things like that, and she made twenty

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Speaker 1: grand Yeah in a year. I mean, I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: enough for me to have a baby, But you gotta

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Speaker 1: start questioning at this point. I mean, so far I've

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Speaker 1: talked about babies in Africa, premature infants. It's all very altruistic.

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Speaker 1: All of a sudden, when you start putting money on

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Speaker 1: it, it it gets really kind of creepy because there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of men apparently who just want to buy

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Speaker 1: a breastcatres. There are some sexual fetishes that go along

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Speaker 1: with buying breast milk and um. So, you know, on

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Speaker 1: the one hand, it's great that this one was able

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Speaker 1: to make so much money to put herself through school

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Speaker 1: and support her infant, but it seems like the more

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Speaker 1: money that's involved, the kind of creepier it gets in

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Speaker 1: terms of of where the money is going and how

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Speaker 1: we're going to protect the process of woman breastfeeding right,

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Speaker 1: And I can understand the ethical quandaries associated with selling

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Speaker 1: your breast milk. At the same time, to me, the

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Speaker 1: fact that there is a market for it is indicative

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Speaker 1: of a the need that's not being met and also

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Speaker 1: the need for more maternal support that isn't being meant

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Speaker 1: that that a woman instead of you know, is having

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Speaker 1: to think about how she can make ends meet to

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Speaker 1: care for her child and is having to sell her

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Speaker 1: breast milk online. Very true, except I'm thinking of a

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Speaker 1: quote from Salon Christian that said, once it's a product

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Speaker 1: and it's sellable, how do we protect the process? The

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Speaker 1: minute you turn breastfeeding into a product, you're creating less

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Speaker 1: of a culture that's supporting the process. So, I mean

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Speaker 1: that makes some sense to me in terms of if

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Speaker 1: it's if it's only something that brings money to people. Uh, well,

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Speaker 1: we still have the laws that protect a woman's right

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Speaker 1: to have a lactation room, um, to build a breastfeed

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Speaker 1: in public. So it's very interesting. And the Salon article

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Speaker 1: I cited was asking the question, would you eat breast

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Speaker 1: milk ice cream? Yes? The baby Gaga I screamed that

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Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of you all out there have

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Speaker 1: heard about. Was what country was he making this? And

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Speaker 1: this wasn't in the US. This guy in London ice

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Speaker 1: cream maker decided, Hey, why don't I make some ice

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Speaker 1: cream with breast milk instead of cow's milk? And he did,

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Speaker 1: and he called it baby Gaga, And at first the

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Speaker 1: food safety folks over in the UK said, oh my goodness.

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Speaker 1: So they got pulled off. But then, um, they're going

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Speaker 1: to actually let him make and sell this breast milk

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Speaker 1: ice cream. But now Lady Gaga's lawyers are on them,

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Speaker 1: which I would be far more frightened of Lady Gaga's

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Speaker 1: lawyers than food safe jeanspectors. But another quote from that

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Speaker 1: article that stood out to me was from a woman

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Speaker 1: who works with the nonprofit Mother's Milk Bank in Austin,

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Speaker 1: and she writes that the reason maybe that people are

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Speaker 1: kind of um picked out by the idea of eating

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Speaker 1: breast milk, I s because let's admit, it's not something

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Speaker 1: everyone wants to eat necessarily different. We have sort of

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Speaker 1: taboos about breast milk, I think in this country. Sure,

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Speaker 1: But she writes that that taboo exists for a reason.

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Speaker 1: So long as there were taboos, they protected babies from

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Speaker 1: the misappropriation of milk by people who are bigger and stronger,

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Speaker 1: and who, being adults, could procure and process other foods independently.

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Speaker 1: So it all goes back to if we sell our

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Speaker 1: breast milk, will the premature infants get the milk that

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Speaker 1: they need, or you know it will It becomes sort

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Speaker 1: of a luxury market for people who want the exotic

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Speaker 1: experience of drinking about breast milk. But I will say

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Speaker 1: I don't think that a woman selling her breast milk

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Speaker 1: on her own is I mean, if we're talking about

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Speaker 1: better or worse, I mean, I think that much better

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Speaker 1: than say California based company pro Lacta, which is the

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Speaker 1: first corporation to develop and sell breast milk for a profit.

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Speaker 1: Um to me, that is the negative direction that this

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Speaker 1: could go in. Like, yes, it would. It preserves the

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Speaker 1: process and the pasteurization and make sure that everything is

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Speaker 1: very clean in bacteria free. But for instance, an average

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Speaker 1: ten weeks supply of the Prolacta bioscience product will cost

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Speaker 1: over ten grand for baby, and the mothers aren't compensated

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Speaker 1: for it. So it's tricky. It's tricky, And at this point,

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Speaker 1: I'd love to open it up and here, if we've

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Speaker 1: got listeners out there who have donated breast milk, who

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Speaker 1: have gotten breast milk donations, if you have worked on

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Speaker 1: a milk swap, what is your relationship to don't our

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Speaker 1: breast milk? And should it be fine for women to

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Speaker 1: sell their breast milk if they want to? Let us

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Speaker 1: know your thoughts, Mom stuff at how stuff Works dot

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Speaker 1: com is our email address, and now we'll read a

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Speaker 1: couple of listener emails. I have an email here from Aaron.

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Speaker 1: It's about the Human Trafficking podcast, and she writes, I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to let you guys know about an organization

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Speaker 1: called Raffa House. Rafa House is a group of dedicated

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Speaker 1: individuals that work toward free girls that are trapped in

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking in Southeast Asia. The girls are taken to

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Speaker 1: safe houses and rehabilitated. They're also taught different traits so

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Speaker 1: that they can make money for themselves or for their

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Speaker 1: families without being involved in prostitution. It's a very cool

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Speaker 1: resource for everyone to look up Rafa House. I've had

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Speaker 1: an email here from a Lana about the human Trafficking episode,

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Speaker 1: and she writes that this is an issue dear to

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Speaker 1: my heart and everyone should do their part to protect

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Speaker 1: other people. When I lived in Los Angeles, a group

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Speaker 1: of women I knew would go around to massage parlors

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Speaker 1: in any other place that might be suspicious, investigate in

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Speaker 1: whatever ways they could. And I know that Atlanta, where

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Speaker 1: you and I are, Molly, is a really big hub

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Speaker 1: for human trafficking. And yes, she is right states trying

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Speaker 1: to pass laws regarding that, and she says there's some

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Speaker 1: great resource in groups that are putting a lot of

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Speaker 1: energy into liberating as many people as possible. And they

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Speaker 1: include International Justice Mission, which is a lot of legal

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Speaker 1: professionals who are putting their skills to good use. And

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Speaker 1: other here in other countries, night Light which is which

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Speaker 1: works with a lot of women and they have a

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Speaker 1: lot of good information as well. And then hand in Cloth.

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Speaker 1: She says, this is my favorite and I planned to

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Speaker 1: go visit possibly next summer. A woman started this business

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Speaker 1: is a way for women in Kolkata, India to have

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Speaker 1: an option other than selling themselves. The women learn a

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Speaker 1: certain type of stitch from their mothers and they stitch

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Speaker 1: their stories into every blanket that they make out of

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Speaker 1: old stories. They are beautiful and accessible way to support women.

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Speaker 1: So I hope you find these interesting and continue to

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Speaker 1: use your positions to share the knowledge. And that's what

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Speaker 1: we aim to do. Share knowledge and share knowledge with us.

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Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com is our email.

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Speaker 1: interact with listeners You can also follow us over on

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Speaker 1: Twitter at Mom Stuff Podcast, and finally, you can check

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Speaker 1: out our blog during the week, It's Stuff Mom Never

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