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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. It's a journey into madness and mayhem. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to digress for one second because I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: why did I get wrong in that previous conversation. So Daniel,

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Speaker 1: let me clear this up. When you were talking about

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Speaker 1: Charles Waterton and that he had been the dauntless one

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Speaker 1: at the school where Sir Arthur Conan Doyle had attended,

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Speaker 1: that one of the reasons why this kid had become

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Speaker 1: so famous. He was a legendary student, kind of the

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Speaker 1: best boy of all time in Yeah. Actually he actually

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Speaker 1: discovered jury in his effects. It made actually the first

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Speaker 1: artificial respirator. Yeah, and so that was interesting that this guy,

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Speaker 1: Charles Waterton was also kind of a hoaxter and that

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Speaker 1: he Yeah, and I wondered, so that's what I was

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Speaker 1: when I had said, well, he was kind of an

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Speaker 1: idol of him. See I got Oh, now I understand

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Speaker 1: where the references coming from shore the red Haler Monkey. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: where he basically he was choices exorbitant amount of money

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Speaker 1: for bringing stuff back in from from South America back

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Speaker 1: to Europe. Uh so he actually made a mockery of

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Speaker 1: the of the of the guy who charged him and

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Speaker 1: basically configured this red Howler monkey to look like the

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Speaker 1: missing link type of thing, right, And of course Doyle

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Speaker 1: would later with the Toetown man who says you as

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Speaker 1: you're alluding to do one debtor and make the real

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Speaker 1: mixing link. And I think that was what so I

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Speaker 1: thought that was why it was so interesting, was that

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Speaker 1: I thought you had made that connection in the book.

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Speaker 1: Is that here he was, you know, as a young

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Speaker 1: as a boy. He saw how everybody was enamored with

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Speaker 1: this guy who was kind of also living sort of

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Speaker 1: this dual life. He was making all these amazing medical achievements,

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned, the Karri and the U and the

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Speaker 1: artificial respirator and the artificial respirator, but at the same

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Speaker 1: time he had this devilish streak where he liked to

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Speaker 1: sort of tweak the nose of the establishment, and he

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Speaker 1: had created the first missing link hoax and that led

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Speaker 1: that led to the piltdown Man. And I thought, wow,

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Speaker 1: that that that connection twenty five exactly. You ever right

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Speaker 1: on the money. Yeah, But that's really because I think

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Speaker 1: that speaks directly to this fracture inside of Sir Arthur

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Speaker 1: Conan Doyle that if you're right. He even had a

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Speaker 1: model for this, where you could be very respectable and

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Speaker 1: everybody loves you, but you know, behind the scenes, you

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Speaker 1: could be your very own Moriarty. You could be that

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Speaker 1: person who's pulling the strings and making other people believe

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Speaker 1: things that you want them to believe. Yes, And he

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Speaker 1: actually did it with a lot of his friends actually

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Speaker 1: in the murder club he was in it called Atlur Society.

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Speaker 1: He brought people to seances with him to show then

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Speaker 1: how they were actually real. And the people the club

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Speaker 1: was saying, you're you're like a You're like a four

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Speaker 1: year old. This is obviously it's fake, don't you. Don't

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Speaker 1: you see it? You know they're using phosphorus to make

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Speaker 1: his chin line up, just like you wrote about ten

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Speaker 1: years ago in The Hound of the Basketball. How are

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Speaker 1: you being taken by this um? But he was so interesting,

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Speaker 1: the real deal. So he actually lost a lot of

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Speaker 1: friends that way, and he's one of his closest friends.

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Speaker 1: James Barry, who wrote Peter Pan told him, listen, you

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Speaker 1: and I are great friends. We play in the cricket

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Speaker 1: field together, but do not tell me to believe in spiritualism.

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Speaker 1: If you do, you and I, our friendship is over.

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Speaker 1: So he had to like find a balance between what

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Speaker 1: he believed or who he was going to bring into

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Speaker 1: these his ideas, and he walked the fine line all

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Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, and I just spirituals, I mean the

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Speaker 1: fairies and all of that other stuff. He sended the

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Speaker 1: two teenage girls with the Fairies, yeah, coloring book and

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Speaker 1: took pictures of the fairies. And the thing about that

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Speaker 1: is Arthur Conan Doyle before he was no as the

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Speaker 1: writer of Sherlock Holmes. He had his own column in

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Speaker 1: the British Journal of Photography in the in the early

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Speaker 1: eighteen eighties, so you took him aout like eight years

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Speaker 1: before Sherlock Holmes came out. So when this, when the

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Speaker 1: fairies were being you know, shown to the world in

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Speaker 1: the eighteen twenties, he was he was an expert photographer.

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Speaker 1: He knew how to fake a photograph, so he should

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Speaker 1: have known or he did know that these were fake.

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Speaker 1: And he was just trying to tell the world, No,

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Speaker 1: this world that he lives in, this magical thinking world,

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Speaker 1: is real. Is a matter of fact. His father guard

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Speaker 1: the cart and Doyle's father and a lot of believed

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Speaker 1: in fairies and that he could talk to birds and

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Speaker 1: he could see them, and it's something that his son

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Speaker 1: actually believes in two And it's this this farther some

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Speaker 1: relationship that really was what got me going on the

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Speaker 1: origin of Jack the Ripper actually, because what happened was

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Speaker 1: when I came across his medical school's thesis and we

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Speaker 1: were talking about you, you had to write a thesis

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Speaker 1: to become a doctor at age twenty five. So when

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Speaker 1: he when he was approaching that age, he wrote a

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Speaker 1: thesis for med school on the final phases and stages

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Speaker 1: of syphilis. And you know, and I read about this

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Speaker 1: in the jama I. You know, I called Edinburgh Medical School.

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Speaker 1: I said, can I get a copy of his of

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Speaker 1: his thesis? They sent it over. It's one hundred and

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Speaker 1: thirty pages. The first thing I noticed were some of

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Speaker 1: the dates that he quotes in the beginning of the thesis,

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Speaker 1: or only two weeks later he's submitting it, so he's

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Speaker 1: quoting articles that were only two weeks old. So he

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Speaker 1: wrote this thing about two to three weeks. He took

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Speaker 1: him at a pH d thesis pace. It's like it's

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Speaker 1: almost unheard of him. It's I couldn't do it, which

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Speaker 1: is why I was so impressed. But some of the

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Speaker 1: information contained inside was what really got me going what

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Speaker 1: was going on with his mind? Because the first thing

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Speaker 1: was he writes very anecdotally, like you're sitting at a

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Speaker 1: table with a man who's squinting reading the newspaper, and

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Speaker 1: I'm going, what is he talking? Like he does he

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Speaker 1: know someone with syphilis that he wouldn't be sitting at

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Speaker 1: the tape at the table with the guy. And then

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Speaker 1: he starts really describing this one obscure sign of syphilis,

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Speaker 1: which is the loss of a knee jerk reflects called

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Speaker 1: the Westfield sign, and he goes on and on about this,

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Speaker 1: and then at the end of this thesis he writes

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Speaker 1: about the treatments, because you know, that's how you have

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Speaker 1: to do, like this breakdown of how you treat and

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Speaker 1: how you how you diagnose, And at the end he

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Speaker 1: actually says, you know, the treatment of syphilis is anmial

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Speaker 1: nitrate up to you take. He start with one like

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Speaker 1: millim and he says, I myself, he says, I myself

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Speaker 1: have taken up to forty without any ill effect. So

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Speaker 1: the first thing that caught me was why is a

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Speaker 1: guy without syphilis taking toxic doses of that only is

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Speaker 1: known to treat syphilis. I mean, did he think he

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Speaker 1: had it when he was twenty five years old? Which

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Speaker 1: is what got me going into doing all this research

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Speaker 1: about what was going on in his life and who

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Speaker 1: is this Anne going to bat? Like? Why is he

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Speaker 1: sitting at a table with someone? Okay, wait, so let

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Speaker 1: me back and so amal nitrate isn't that today we

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Speaker 1: call poppers and that isn't like connected to the sex drug?

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Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, blood vessels, right, yeah, but I mean it

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Speaker 1: makes you frenetic, and people take poppers and then they

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Speaker 1: go dancing and then have you know, the theory is

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Speaker 1: is that you have this uninhibited, wild animal like sex

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Speaker 1: on amal nitrate. I mean that sounds like what was

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Speaker 1: happening with some of the victims later on with Jack

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Speaker 1: the Ripper. I mean that well, I mean maybe none

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Speaker 1: of the Ripper victims were raped. No, I don't mean that,

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Speaker 1: but I mean in terms of the frenzy of the oh,

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Speaker 1: the cutting and the whatever. I mean, that's just that

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Speaker 1: that's so interesting to me that you brought up. I

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Speaker 1: would never I didn't make that connection with with amal

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Speaker 1: nitrate until just now, but taking very high doses. And

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Speaker 1: he actually says the first thing you get at the headache,

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Speaker 1: So we actually knew, Yeah, profile this guy was really

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Speaker 1: you know, you're talking this is a medicine he's taking.

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Speaker 1: He's hopped up on paupers and and and of course,

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Speaker 1: and why would you want to do this if you're

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Speaker 1: running about it in your thesis and you're confessing to

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Speaker 1: your professors that you're taking such a medicine for condition,

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Speaker 1: which kind of was like, you know, what is he

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Speaker 1: what is he doing here? Yeah? Is that? What happened

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Speaker 1: next was I actually ordered this book called The Doyle Diary,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was going to be that the Colone

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Speaker 1: and Doyle, because why would you who else would be

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Speaker 1: the Doyle Diary? It actually happened to be about his father,

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Speaker 1: who was in artists but they published actors. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you find that that his

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Speaker 1: father was encorcerated in a mental hospital for presumptive alcoholism

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Speaker 1: at age forty two. And it's like and he died

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Speaker 1: there years later. He never escaped, he never who was

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Speaker 1: made a prisoner actually, and I actually contacted the mental

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Speaker 1: hospitals that he was an inmate at and I asked

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Speaker 1: for his medical records. They sent them to me and

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Speaker 1: I went over them, and the thing that really shot

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Speaker 1: out at me and said, Wow, this is something of

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Speaker 1: importance is that the only physical finding that they had

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Speaker 1: on him on admission to Mantro's hospital was that he

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Speaker 1: had this absence knee dric reflex. In Doyle's thesis, he

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Speaker 1: actually spends an awful amount of time talking about it,

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Speaker 1: saying if you have an absent that if you have

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Speaker 1: Westwall sign, you are you you have simphilis until proven otherwise.

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Speaker 1: And I made that question like he is thinking that

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Speaker 1: his father, that that anecdotal pation of his that's sitting

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Speaker 1: at the at the table of him reading the paper

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Speaker 1: and squinting, is his father. Yeah. And then of course

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Speaker 1: I've read another article that happened right after this thesis paper,

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Speaker 1: which is on the Contagious Diseases Act, and it's written

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Speaker 1: by Arthocon and Doyle, and he says that women of

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Speaker 1: the night are ruining the taverns of the area. They

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Speaker 1: should be locked up and incarce right into lock hospitals,

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Speaker 1: and invasive gynecological examinations should be performing on them until

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Speaker 1: they had deemed to be clear of infectious disease, and

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Speaker 1: he makes this long article in the Portsmouth News, and

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Speaker 1: the week later another physician rights back and says, Arthur

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Speaker 1: Cronan Doyle is a liar. His information is completely all

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Speaker 1: all lies, and he has to retract his statement, and

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Speaker 1: he did so. I knew there was a connection that

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Speaker 1: hit syphilis and prostitutes and getting them off the streets,

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Speaker 1: and this connection to his father is now here. But

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Speaker 1: what I also knew that he also was taking the

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Speaker 1: medicine on himself, and I went back and read about

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Speaker 1: what he had as a child. That's when I started

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Speaker 1: doing all this research on his early life, and I

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Speaker 1: realized that he had at a very young age, at

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Speaker 1: age ten, he had neuralgia like this pain in his jaw,

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Speaker 1: and he actually was getting electric shock therapy when he

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Speaker 1: was a teenager for it. And later when he was

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Speaker 1: doing that what we were talking about the assistant clerkships

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Speaker 1: to get your your degree in medicine, and when one

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Speaker 1: of his clerkshires was in Birmingham and he was taking

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Speaker 1: jell simium and he was actually overdosed on it, and

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Speaker 1: two of the assistants that he was working with actually

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Speaker 1: had to save his life because he almost died. Later on,

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Speaker 1: he's using he's using chemicals from the dark room the

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Speaker 1: treat a rest that looks like a psoriasis. And of course,

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Speaker 1: as a physician, and even he sounds like you would

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Speaker 1: know too, you know everything that rash of syphilis is

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Speaker 1: actually it mimics the rash of psoriasis. And there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of these interconnections were did he think at

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Speaker 1: this point in time, when he was twenty five years

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Speaker 1: old that he really had syphilis and he had it

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Speaker 1: from hereditary factors from his father? And of course there's

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Speaker 1: a story that he wrote called the Third Generation. Arthur

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Speaker 1: Conan Doora wrote this well, I think in the early

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Speaker 1: eighteen nineties, maybe even the eighteen eighties, where he talks

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Speaker 1: about a grandfather passing it down to his son who

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Speaker 1: Syphilisnes says, who passes it down genetically to his grandson

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Speaker 1: and the grandson kills himself because he knows he has it.

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Speaker 1: And I said, oh, this, this could be this, this,

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Speaker 1: this could be with upsetting this kid. At this point,

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Speaker 1: he's twenty five, he's a minute. He just became a doctor,

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Speaker 1: and all doctors think whatever disease, you know, you read

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Speaker 1: about you have, and I thought maybe he thought he

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Speaker 1: had it too all right. But there's another explanation, though,

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Speaker 1: two right, which is that here he was. His childhood

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Speaker 1: had been ruined, he'd been abused, he had been left

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Speaker 1: at um at boarding schools for as you point out,

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Speaker 1: six weeks over Christmas, even though he wasn't a foreign student.

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Speaker 1: He was like him and all of these other foreign students.

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Speaker 1: He's left at these boarding schools because his mother is

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Speaker 1: having and she's having a robust sexual life with a

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Speaker 1: younger lover, because the marriage broke down because his father

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Speaker 1: had become a self medicating alcoholic and had very likely

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Speaker 1: then syphilis. And so if they got syphilis from prostitutes,

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Speaker 1: which then ruined his life and broke up his family,

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Speaker 1: Sir Arthur Conan Doyle could easily be associating the fact

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Speaker 1: that he was he had a miserable life up until

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Speaker 1: this point. And it all goes back to the fault

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Speaker 1: of the prostitutes for passing along ciphilis. If they hadn't

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Speaker 1: given his father syphilis, then his parents would have stayed

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Speaker 1: together and he wouldn't have had such a miserable upbringing.

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Speaker 1: His father wouldn't have been so abusive, it all would

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Speaker 1: have been better. And that makes sense why those prostitutes

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Speaker 1: that were killed by Jack the Ripper were not the

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Speaker 1: young girls of like sixteen to twenty five that you

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Speaker 1: would probably think of would be the victims. They were

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Speaker 1: all in their forties, you know, forty two to forty

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Speaker 1: seven years old. They would have been the ones that

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Speaker 1: would have been attracted to Charles Doyle back in his

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Speaker 1: younger days. So but they were also but the age

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Speaker 1: of his mother, so they were actually they were the

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Speaker 1: of his mother. None you are correctly took the money.

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Speaker 1: He gets a two fer, he's killed the prostitutes, and

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Speaker 1: he's acting out against his mother who kept abandoning him

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Speaker 1: at these schools where she could have brought him home

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Speaker 1: for the holidays, but she was too busy with her

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Speaker 1: robust sex life. It kind of all comes together. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's really kind of if you were ever looking for

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Speaker 1: a motivation for Jack the Ripper, that's pretty boiler plate

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Speaker 1: exactly right there. So all right, so but let's let's

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Speaker 1: get into some of the where and you're the and

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Speaker 1: I don't mean to treat it like it's esoterica, it's not.

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Speaker 1: You have you have uncovered some missing details in both

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Speaker 1: the life of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and Jack the Ripper.

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Speaker 1: Whether or not these are two and the same, let's

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Speaker 1: get to the let's get down to it. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about some of the really obvious clues that most people

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Speaker 1: know who follow Jack the Ripper. That um, like the

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Speaker 1: from Hell letter or Dear Boss, or some of the

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Speaker 1: other ways in which he had, you know, contacted the

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Speaker 1: authorities and seemed to be tweaking their nose much in

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Speaker 1: the same way that they're Pilt Down Man or the

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Speaker 1: Howler Monkey hoax. That these were all ways of sort

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Speaker 1: of saying, you guys think you're so smart, but you're

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Speaker 1: not right exactly. He was playing with them. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he was playing with the with the Central News Agency

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Speaker 1: and the police, some of it with the establishment, with

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Speaker 1: the whole establishment, right, and you know, and we know,

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Speaker 1: you know, some people say these weren't letters written by

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Speaker 1: Jack the Ripper, but obviously some were. One of them

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Speaker 1: had a piece of the victim's kidney that was nailed

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Speaker 1: back to the pathologist, you know, the jaw, So we

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Speaker 1: know that letter was written by Jack the Ripper. So

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Speaker 1: it can't be said that he didn't. It actually was

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Speaker 1: a perfect match, you know, he said, I ate the

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Speaker 1: victim's kidney, and here it is in a box, right yeah, which,

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Speaker 1: so all right, So give me some of the clues

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Speaker 1: that you think indicate Jack the ripper is, Sir car

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Speaker 1: you know, Sir Arthur Corner and Doyle. Sure, I mean,

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Speaker 1: before I get to the I guess to the letters

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Speaker 1: that I would probably go more to like what was

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Speaker 1: left behind it at the crime scene. But and I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to do a little bit of just so

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Speaker 1: your audience knows. Arthur Conan Doyle in eighteen eighty seven

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Speaker 1: became a Freemason. This is a very prestigious organization. They

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Speaker 1: actually about three million members now and they are a

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Speaker 1: brotherhood that does charity and good deeds. Obviously, even though

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Speaker 1: in my profession I'm a physician and it's Arthur Conan Doyle.

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Speaker 1: Sherlock Holme says, when a doctor does go wrong, he's

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Speaker 1: the first of criminals. He has nerve and he has knowledge.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that old doctors are bad. It's the

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Speaker 1: same thing here. So he's a Freemason. Doyle is a Freemason.

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Speaker 1: The majority of ninety nine of Freemasons are great and

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Speaker 1: they do charitable deeds. In fact, Doyle's lodge, Phoenix Fludge

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Speaker 1: to fifty seven was in the midst of raising funds

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Speaker 1: for the local hospital. So in eighteen eighties have been

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Speaker 1: Doyle became a Freemason and he became a third degree.

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Speaker 1: Within about two months when he got his third degree

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Speaker 1: apron he actually resigned. He said he didn't show up

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Speaker 1: to any of the lodge meetings, he didn't participate anymore,

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Speaker 1: he didn't raise money for the hospital, and then he

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Speaker 1: actually demitted from the organization, which is almost unheard of.

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Speaker 1: Two years later had many Masons say there's no way,

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Speaker 1: no one ever dimits from the Masons, and they looked

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Speaker 1: it up and his records showed that he did in

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Speaker 1: eighteen eighty nine. So we're gonna need this for the

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Speaker 1: clue basis. So when you become a third degree, they

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Speaker 1: do a play back in the day. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if they do this now, they probably don't, But back

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Speaker 1: in the eighteen eighties they do a play where they

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Speaker 1: reenact the death of King Solomon's master architect Hyra Mabeth,

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Speaker 1: and the first guy, Jubila, basically hits the master Mason

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Speaker 1: across the neck, so we call that in the basis,

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Speaker 1: they had a penal sign that's called the punishment signs,

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Speaker 1: and it was your hand basically across your neck. And

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Speaker 1: then penal signed number two is your left hand on

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Speaker 1: your left breast. And in the play they say that

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Speaker 1: my intestines are placed over my shoulder and the valley

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Speaker 1: of Jehosaphat. And the third act that was committed against

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Speaker 1: the Master Mason was he was hit in the head

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Speaker 1: with a gavel. So there's the blow to the head.

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Speaker 1: So we'd have to go back to now to the

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Speaker 1: ripper cluse and murder number one that of Marion Nichols.

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Speaker 1: She was she was basically got at, you know, her

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Speaker 1: guts were, her intesters were ripped open, her intesters were exposed,

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Speaker 1: and that she had a deep neck wound. Listen to

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Speaker 1: more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one am

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Speaker 1: Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am dot com

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Speaker 1: for more