1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network, brought to 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: you by Interstate Batteries. Interstate Batteries has been a proud 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: supporter of the Sportsman's Nation since day one. So if 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: you need batteries for your truck, batteries for your trail cameras, 5 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: TV remote controls, flashlights, you name it, Interstate Batteries has 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: what you need. They have thousands of retail locations all 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: over the United States, so stop in talk to a 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: battery specialist, or for more information, visit Interstate batteries dot com. 9 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host of the 10 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into 11 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: the world of hunting the icon of North American wilderness bear. 12 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: We'll talk about tactics, gear, conservation, but will also bring 13 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: you into some of the wildest country off the planet 14 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: chasing batteries. You know, those uh, the bear hunters were 15 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: sports stars of their era. You know they were they 16 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: were then. I'm committed to memory. This is good. This 17 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: is what I've been living for the moment when somebody 18 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: like Dr Brooks, Blevins sports Starners were the sports stars 19 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: of the EU and I mean, in my humble opinion, 20 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: this podcast is one of the neatest that we've ever done. 21 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: We went up to Missouri State University in Springfield, Missouri 22 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: and met with Dr Brooks Blevins, who is the national 23 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: expert and historian on the Ozarks, which have a rich 24 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: history and bear hunting, and we discussed all kinds of 25 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: stuff revolving around the history of the Ozarks, how people 26 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: got here, how they utilize the land, how regional identity 27 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,639 Speaker 1: was built, and we talked a ton about bear hunting. 28 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: So you're gonna enjoy this podcast. A couple of things 29 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: that we got to cover. The bad news. Some bad 30 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,399 Speaker 1: news is is that those are black Bear Bonanza has 31 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: been postponed. We don't know exactly when it's gonna be rescheduled, 32 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: but we are going to do this event. And as 33 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: you guys would know, it's related to the COVID nineteen 34 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: coronavirus UH outbreak that's happened, so you'll hear more from 35 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: us about that event in the future. People that bought 36 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: tickets their money has been refunded, stand by because that 37 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: is gonna happen. And lastly, hey, check out our friends. 38 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: Our buddies are comrades at W Hunting Supply for all 39 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: of your hound or dog related needs, garment related needs. 40 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: Check out the guys and gals at W Hunty Supply 41 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: for anything and everything you would need. And the spring 42 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: bear season comes closer and closer. North Woods Bear products 43 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: best commercial bear sense on the market. We've used them 44 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: for years and if you're if you're hunting over bait, 45 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: you need to be using some north Woods. You're gonna 46 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: enjoy this podcast with Dr Brooks Blevins. A lot of 47 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: old time Missouri people say Missouri. Well, that's a great 48 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: place to start. We're at Missouri State. My my natural 49 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: inclination is to say Missouri. But you say a lot 50 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: of old older people you say Missouri. Yeah, a lot 51 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: of old timers still say Missouri. I remember when I 52 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,119 Speaker 1: was a kid, even in our growing up in Arkansas, 53 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: I can remember a lot of people would would pronounce 54 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: it Missouri. Yeah. But that's you don't hear that near 55 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: as much anymore. And in Missouri to become kind of 56 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: a way to identifying, yeah, order folks from maybe rural areas. 57 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: You know, people in St. Louis or Jansas City or 58 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: even Springfield, aren't They're not gonna say Missouri. That sounds 59 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: too uh backwoods to them. But but yeah, but I've 60 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: I've always said Missouri. Yeah, yeah, Well you guys are here, 61 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: in the voice of Dr Brooks blevins Man, thanks for 62 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: taking the time to talk to us. Glad to do it. Yeah. Well, 63 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: I've looked forward to this conversation for a long time. 64 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 1: I've thought for a long time that it would be 65 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: cool to come up here and talk to you. And 66 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: I finally was just like, man, I'm gonna send this 67 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: guy an email. Also got Colby moorehead with me. Colby's 68 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: gonna chime in with some good with some good questions. 69 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: Now you can tell me about your kind of your 70 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: academic history. So we're at Missouri State University. You are 71 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: a professor here at Missouri State and are you and 72 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: you can just tell me the truth. Are you one 73 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: of the lead historians for the Ozarks in in these times, 74 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: in this time period, because you've you've certainly written a 75 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: lot of books and and I'll get to some of 76 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: the books that you've written about the Ozarks and about right. Uh. Yeah, 77 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: I think I think for the most part, I would 78 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: be considered the the leading historian of the Ozarks. Uh 79 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: if for no other reason, I've just written a lot 80 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,239 Speaker 1: more stuff than anybody else's. I've been a lot busier 81 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: than anybody else. And uh, but yeah, I think, uh, 82 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: I think that's probably a true statement. State, And that's 83 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: what that's what I assumed, just because of all the 84 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: books that you have. Now, I've I've read two of 85 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: your books. How many books have you written? M hmmm, Uh, 86 00:05:54,440 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: well eight or nine somewhere in that in that territory. Worry. Uh, 87 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: I've written. I guess over half of them have been 88 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: on the Ozarks. And uh, I'm I'm currently writing a 89 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: trilogy on the history of the Ozarks, and I'm working 90 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: on the third volume right now. The first two volumes 91 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: are out, the first ones all pre Civil War, second 92 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 1: ones to the Civil War era, and then the third 93 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: one will bring it into the twenty first century. But uh, 94 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: but yeah, that's been my big project. And I've been 95 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 1: telling people like I've been working on this for years, uh, 96 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: for seven or eight years. And my thing lately is, uh, 97 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: I may completely change fields when this is over. That's 98 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: way too much Ozarks for anybody, even a guy who's 99 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: made his career writing about the history of the Ozarks. 100 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: But but I enjoyed. I'm a native of the Ozarks 101 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: and so it has a lot of personal meaning for me. Yeah, 102 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: it seems like, uh, maybe I'm just paying attention more, 103 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: but it seems like the Ozarks are coming up more 104 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: on a national scale. Uh just like h and this 105 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: is like totally pop culture stuff, but like the TV 106 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: show The Ozarks with what's his name Jason Bateman and man, 107 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna ruin my reputation in the bear hunting world. 108 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: I do not watch the Grammys. Okay, I don't watch 109 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: the Grammys. I didn't see a highlight clip when Brad 110 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: Pitt when he won a Grammy just like two months ago. 111 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: Oscar Oscar Good. I just pressed my point. That just 112 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: proved my point attention to that stuff. But that's the 113 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: only clip I saw. Good you saw it too, Okay, 114 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: But he he uh he he thinked his parents who 115 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: were back in the Ozarks, and I was like, I 116 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: was like fist pumping. I was like, yeah, man, we're 117 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: getting some recognition from culture. Yeah, and we're here in 118 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: his hometown Springfield. Yeah, I see, I didn't even realize that. Yeah, 119 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: it just those are just a few examples. But but 120 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: I think even in the national scene. So we're you know, 121 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: you don't know much about us, but you know, Bear 122 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: Hunting Magazine is the only print bear hunting magazine in 123 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: the world. We've been in print for twenty years. And 124 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: so seven years ago we you know, the world headquarters 125 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: of Bear Hunting Magazine, which you're you're looking at it 126 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: right here, me and k we we Now, I've always 127 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: been in Northwest Arkansas, but the business move to northwest Arkansas, 128 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: and so for a lot of people, that was a 129 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: strange transition for the epicenter of the black bear hunting 130 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: space to be located. Uh, you know, we in in uh, 131 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: but we have this like immense and rich history with 132 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: black bears, you know, aside from the hunting aspect of it, 133 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: just uh, from the ecological aspect of bears being in 134 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: the Ozarks and just to spend their natural historic range. 135 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,319 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just this incredible animal and and with 136 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: that incredible animal comes all this incredible history. So there's 137 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: been this like resurgence of the idea of the Ozarks 138 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: being a place to hunt bear and a lot of 139 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: that happened, and it's really happened the last twenty years, 140 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: as the bear populations have increased in the Ozarks, and 141 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: so the hunting regulations have liberalized in order to you know, 142 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: manage bear populations. So all of a sudden, guys are 143 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: able to hunt bears in a in a in a 144 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: more in a fashion where they can actually harvest them, 145 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: to kind of liberalize liberalize this season a little bit. 146 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: And so all of a sudden, those arcs are on 147 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: the national radar for bears, and I think that's cool. Yeah, 148 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: it's and you're right. I'll admit I didn't know that 149 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: they were on the National bear radar until until today. 150 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: But uh, but yeah, you know, one of the things 151 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: I've noticed through the years is, uh, you know, regions 152 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: sort of come into vogue and then they slip back 153 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: into the background, they come back. It's kind of a 154 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: cyclical thing. And you know, if you go back to 155 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: the sixties and seventies the Ozarks and the nineteen sixties 156 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: and seventies, the Ozarks were really hot. You had the 157 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: Beverly Hillbillies, and you had all these folk festivals going 158 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: on around the region, and there was a lot of stuff. 159 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: Those arct Mountain darred Evils, you know, one of my 160 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: my favorite bands from the seventies and a lot of stuff, 161 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 1: and then the regions sort of disappeared. And then and then, 162 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: and I think you're exactly right. And uh, just in 163 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: the last decade, it's it's really made a comeback on 164 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: on TV. And the movie Winner's Bone, a terrific novel 165 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: and and movie that came out a few years ago 166 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: set set in the sort of meth cooking uh element 167 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: of the Ozarks and and uh and so I think, uh, 168 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: you know this, this resurgence of bear hunting and interest 169 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,719 Speaker 1: in and bear hunting is perfect and uh and at 170 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: least as far as I'm concerned, there's no better headquarters 171 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: than than the Ozarks for that from the history, from 172 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: the history that I know about, that's that's pretty perfect 173 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: place for it. Well, the first book that I read 174 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: of yours, I've got it right here in my hand, 175 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: is uh, it's that. Well, it's titled Arkansas. And there's 176 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: two ways to spell it on the title Arkansas, the 177 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: historical way that ends with an S, and then Arkansas 178 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: spelled with the W at the end. The way we 179 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 1: all say it's right, that's right. Yeah, we don't say 180 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: ar Kansas. We say Arkansas and then the tagline and 181 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: this is what man you had maybe at this which 182 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 1: may have been the may be the only person that 183 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: ever read this book. I don't know, but uh, how 184 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: bear hunters, hillbillies, and good old boys defined the state. Yeah, 185 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: I can see how that. That's subtitle we get you 186 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 1: that hooked me hard, Man, that hooked me hard. And 187 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: that's really what I want to talk about. It's like, uh, 188 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: is how you know? I'm interested in how me specifically 189 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: how hunting culture influences the region, you know, because I 190 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: think what's happening inside of modern hunting is we're trying 191 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: to redefine our relevance, you know what I mean with 192 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: a lot of things that happen. Urbanization, people being disconnected 193 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: from the land, disconnected from where they came from, um 194 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: anti hunting sentiment, people just not understanding the culture people are, 195 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: people are disconnecting. So as hunters, it's kind of like 196 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: we're we're trying to say, we know we're relevant, we 197 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,359 Speaker 1: know what we're doing is beneficial for wildlife, beneficial for economy, 198 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: is beneficial for non game animals that were not hunting 199 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: because of funding for wildlife that we're trying to protect 200 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: so all these amazing benefits that come from modern hunting, 201 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: but we're trying to like carve out our relevance in 202 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: a modern time. And so when I look at a 203 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: statement like that, how Barren hunters, hillbillies and good boys 204 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: to find the state, like, I think, really, what I'm 205 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: trying to do is I'm I'm, I'm, I'm I'm curious 206 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: about how other parts of my life. And I told 207 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: you right before we started this that I'm a seventh 208 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: generation are Kans and my kids are eighth generation. Uh 209 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, we we've really been hunters all the way through, 210 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: and and I'm trying to figure out where hunting as 211 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: influenced my life in maybe ways that I don't even understand, 212 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 1: you know, uh right, And uh yeah, I think, uh yeah, 213 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot to that. As you were 214 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: talking about, I was thinking about a lot of things 215 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: that have happened just in the twenty one century that 216 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: these sort of revivals, And in a way, I think 217 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: what you're talking about is sort of hunting revival in 218 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: a sense. And I think about these, uh you know, 219 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: this this fad for we called acts throwing or whatever, 220 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: where this thing is and and and a lot of 221 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 1: these uh uh and And I think there's there, well, 222 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: I know there's here in the you know, twenty years 223 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: into the twenty one century, there there's a renewed interest 224 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: in going back to the land amongst uh you know, 225 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: a younger generation again. And I think a lot of 226 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: that is a reaction to the fact that our society 227 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: is so urbanized and it's modernized, and it's it's gotten 228 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: farther away from uh that you know, that past that 229 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: many of us probably romanticized to a certain degree, that 230 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: that sort of that sort of hunting uh and and 231 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: farming close to the land past that people are trying 232 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: to reconnect with. And sometimes it's people who have who 233 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: have been away from the land for a generation or two, 234 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: and they feel some sort of I don't I don't 235 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: want some sort of emptiness or some sort of vacuum 236 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: that that needs to be filled by by making contact 237 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: with the land, whether that you know, growing their own 238 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: food or killing their own food or or or whatever 239 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: that is. So I think I think it's all part 240 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: of what I call it, uh part of the primitivist spirit. 241 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: And I don't want to get, you know, too too 242 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: far into lengthy words here. But but I think I 243 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: think primitive ism is a I think it's a it's 244 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: a very strong uh force in in human society, especially 245 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: in civilized human society, that extends well beyond this kind 246 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: of stuff. It's in religion and politics and all that 247 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. It's it's a desire to reconnect with 248 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: your origins in a very real, uh you know. It's 249 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: just a very hands in the dirt sort of sort 250 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: of way. And I and I think this is that 251 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: is that a feature of a really modern prosperous society. 252 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: I think I think it is like the people back 253 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds that were farming and bear hunting, 254 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: Like you said, we romanticize that so much. They sure 255 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: as that weren't trying to reconnect with their past. They're 256 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: trying to get away from it. That's that's exactly right. 257 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's that's the insight right there. It's 258 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: it it is. It comes from a place of security 259 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: and sometimes wealth and comfort. Uh. And before we started, 260 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: we were talking about that German Explorer, one of my favorites, 261 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: Gersh Sticker, and Gersh Sticker was in he was an 262 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: example of that because he came from middle class German 263 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: society in a place that he thought had become too 264 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: soft and where people had become specialized. You know. One 265 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: of the things that he he he marveled about when 266 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: he came to places like Arkansas is how many skills 267 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: that these pioneer settlers had. That he said, it would 268 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: take an entire village in Germany, where he was from 269 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: to do what one person could do himself in in 270 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 1: pioneer Arkansas. And and he was ger Sticker was very 271 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: much a romantic. That's why he was in American in 272 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 1: the first place. He was trying to get away from 273 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: that middle class sort of what we might call whitebread, 274 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 1: you know, suburban existence. And they didn't have suburbs back then, 275 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: I guess, but you know what I'm talking about, that 276 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: kind of that kind of soul sapping, you knoweous existence. Yeah. 277 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: And and you're right that people in Arkansas, the people 278 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: he came into contact with, they weren't thinking about that 279 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: kind of stuff because they're they're surviving, you know, they're 280 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: they're out uh, growing their stuff and hunting to survive. 281 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: And and it's only a few generations later that that 282 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: the Ozarks that Arkansas advances to a prosperous enough level 283 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: where all of a sudden, people who are born and 284 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: raised in Arkansas, are born and raised in the Ozarks 285 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: are now looking back and saying, you know, in a 286 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: very romantic way and saying, you know, maybe maybe those 287 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: were the good old days, or maybe even if they weren't, 288 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: maybe we've lost something fundamental to what it means to 289 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: be a human when when we when we moved to 290 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: the suburbs and track housing and and start living like 291 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: everybody else and buying all of our groceries at the store, 292 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: and and and so that you're exactly right that that 293 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: sort of backward looking, primitive ist romantic streak it only 294 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: happens in in prosperous, comfortable societies where we when we 295 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: can have both worlds. When that's really my life, I mean, like, 296 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: you know, I'd live a really normal, probably middle class life, 297 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: but I have this other side where we live in 298 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 1: the country. We have mules, we have chickens, we bear hunt, 299 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: we eat a lot of wild game, and so I'm 300 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: able to live that part of my life kind of 301 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: as much as I want to. But then have running 302 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: water and you know, vaccinations. It's it's the best of 303 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: both worlds, and I mean it kind of it It 304 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: sort of makes you feel bad for your ancestors, you 305 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: know that they that they were I mean, they were 306 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: doing a lot of the stuff that we sort of 307 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: play at, you know that we sort of recreate out 308 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: of necessity, and so it's it's a nice luxury to 309 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,959 Speaker 1: have in this modern world, at least for now, you know, 310 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: unless something goes south in a hurry. Uh, then you 311 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: know we've uh yeah, we've we've got pretty good I think. Yeah, 312 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: will you give me just like a general overview of 313 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: the history of the Ozarks And I know that's a 314 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: loaded question. I mean all the way back, I mean 315 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: all the way back from like I guess, just a 316 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: general overview of of like Native American influence and then 317 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: you know, European settlement and then ultimately where I want 318 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: to get to. I want to talk about bear hunting, 319 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,400 Speaker 1: because there's a there's a ton of stories in here 320 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: that talked about bear hunters from you know, the Methodist 321 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: preacher near Batesville that stopped his service. Yeah, yeah, stopped 322 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: his service. To ever tell you that stopped his service 323 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: too when he heard a bear race he was preaching 324 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: and he heard he heard hounds running a bear up 325 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: on the mountain, and he stopped his service, and all 326 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: the men saddled up their horses and they chased down 327 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: the race, killed a bear, came back and he said, 328 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: thank God for fast horses and women that can pray, 329 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah, I think I think it was. 330 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: Of course, it's probably completely made up, whatever you say, 331 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: but yeah, the line I think was, uh, thank the 332 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: Lord for men who know how to shoot and women 333 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: who know how to pray, because they you know, they 334 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: I guess they brought the bearer back with them after 335 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 1: after it was all said and done. But yeah, good 336 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: old Eli Lindsay was his name, and I think he 337 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: was probably a teenager at that time, but he he 338 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: was a guy who So that was a true story, though, 339 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: I mean it was it was told. A story was 340 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 1: told as a true story. And one thing you learned 341 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: is in a story, and that even things that are 342 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: passed down through oral tradition that are told is true stories. 343 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: Who knows, Yeah, you take them with a grain of salt. 344 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: They're great. They're great stories, and that's why they survive. 345 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: But there, but certainly in the Arkansas of those days 346 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 1: and in the very early eighteen hundreds, that very well 347 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 1: could have happened, and it probably did happen, that story 348 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: because my grandmother's maiden name was Lindsay, yeah saying it 349 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,120 Speaker 1: could have been like could be the kin folks. Yeah. 350 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: But the the the the sort of you know, cliffs 351 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: notes version of of of Ozark's history. Uh. They when 352 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: the first Europeans got to the Mississippi Valley the middle 353 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 1: of North America, there really were no Native Americans living 354 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: most places in the Ozarks. And this part of what 355 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: part of what made it such a wonderland of wildlife 356 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: in those early days. The yeah, well the mid even 357 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: early seventeen hundreds, mid seventeen hundreds, the the O s 358 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: Ages were the ones who were sort of the overlords 359 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: of uh, most of the Ozarks. If you got way 360 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: down in the southeastern part of the region, the Qua 361 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: Pols might you know, be kind of they they used 362 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: that for hunting ground. But for the most part, the 363 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: very powerful, uh scary O s Ages. And they were 364 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: in by scary, I mean they were there. Their own 365 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: native neighbors were usually scared of them. They were the 366 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: most powerful nation or tribe really and and and much 367 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: of the central part of what now the United States, 368 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: and they for the most part lived on the very 369 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: northwestern corner of the Ozarks all the way over into Kansas, 370 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: and that they lived mainly on on the prairie. And 371 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: then they would periodically come down and hunt bear and 372 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: deer and elk and buffalo and all that kind of 373 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 1: stuff down to the Ozarks. And so the French are 374 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: the first to show up. And they show up and 375 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: they start settling in the Mississippi Valley in the early 376 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: Seventissippi River. Actually the first ones actually came down from 377 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: from Canada and yeah, and it came down that way 378 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: and uh and by you know, by seventeen hundreds, early 379 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,360 Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds, they're starting to pilfer around into the into 380 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: the hills a little bit because of the lead. Lead 381 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: was the big thing. There were all kinds of lead 382 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: deposits uh in in different places in the Ozarks, and 383 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: that got them to coming in and and then a 384 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: lot of the French also got into hunting and trapping 385 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: and things like that. But the the American settlers, the 386 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: ones coming from east of the Mississippi who were US citizens, 387 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: really don't start coming over until the seventeen nineties and UH. 388 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,199 Speaker 1: And of course this where we are now here in 389 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: the Ozarks and and most of the country west of 390 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: the Mississippi was Spanish territory at that time. It had 391 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: originally been French territory. UH. With the UH the War, 392 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: the Seven Years War that we in the United States 393 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: often called the French and Indian War in the seventeen 394 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: fifties and sixties, the territory got switched over to Spain, 395 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: so it was Spanish territory. The Spanish government started inviting 396 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 1: American settlers to come into their territory because almost no 397 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 1: Spaniards actually came over here, and they were just trying 398 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: to get people to settle, get farming and commerce to 399 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: going and stuff like that. And so that's when it 400 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: really starts. And then after the Louisiana purchase in eighteen 401 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: oh three, UH, the the Shoals in St. Louis raised 402 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,479 Speaker 1: the the U. S. Flag in eighteen oh four, and 403 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: there just starts to be a flood of Missouri territory. Yeah. 404 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,199 Speaker 1: First it was it was it was all Louisiana, and 405 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: then eventually they broke off Missouri and then Arkansas was 406 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: broken off from from Missouri territory. But these are settlers 407 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: coming from for the most part, they're coming from Tennessee, Kentucky, Carolina's, Virginia. 408 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: Uh there. They tend to come from the upland areas 409 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: of the South Apple, you know, that greater Appalachian area, 410 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: some of them from the mountains, some of them from 411 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: the foothills and the plateaus and stuff like that. And 412 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 1: many of them are attracted to the Ozarks because they 413 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: can recreate the life they had back in Tennessee or 414 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: Kentucky or Virginia with very little alteration at all. The 415 00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:00,160 Speaker 1: Ozarks in many ways just a smaller, shorter leave just out. 416 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: It's cheaper. I mean, yeah, any number of reasons. One 417 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: of the reasons is a lot of these people. It 418 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: seems seems crazy to us now in the early twenty 419 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: first century, but a lot of people thought it was 420 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 1: getting overcrowded back east. You know now that there are 421 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: you know, there are eight thousand people within uh forty 422 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: miles of us, So let's get out of here. And 423 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 1: and so. But for for their purposes in uh and 424 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: the kind of agriculture that they practice, you had to 425 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: have a lot of land because in a lot of 426 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: places in the Ozarks, a lot of places in Appalachia, 427 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 1: the dirt is not very good, and it's it's hilly, 428 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: and you know, the washing halls are the same way there. 429 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: There's a lot more slope than there is flat anywhere, 430 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: and so you needed big sections of land. When the 431 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: land opens up in the Ozarks, Uh, it's you know, 432 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: it's yeah. And so they just bring their life ways 433 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: with them. Uh. That includes hunting. And I've seen I've 434 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: seen a lot of stories of people who immigrated to 435 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: the Ozarks specifically for the hunting. People who were primarily 436 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: hunters are primarily interested in hunting back in Tennessee or 437 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: Kentucky or wherever they were. As humans started really populating 438 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: those areas pretty heavily, the the the wildlife populations diminish significantly, 439 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: and before long it's a lot harder to to hunt. 440 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: It's a lot harder to to find what you're trying to, 441 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: uh to hunt. And so yeah, I've seen I've seen 442 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: letters of of early settlers who who right to people 443 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: who have already settled in Arkansas or Missouri or somewhere hunting. Yeah. Yeah, 444 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: and we talked to somebody from hunting, that's right. And 445 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 1: and uh and and then you get, uh, you get 446 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: a lot of these uh what I call come here letters. 447 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 1: And when people moved from back in the east somewhere 448 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: and they moved to the Ozarks and they right back 449 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: home and say you've got to come here. You you 450 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:01,959 Speaker 1: you won't believe what I was here. And a lot 451 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: of that is about the plan, especially in those early days, 452 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: the plentiful wildlife that's here and uh and so that 453 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: so those are the people who end up, you know, 454 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: populating the os Arks before the Civil War in the 455 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: early eighteen hundreds, and those those people moving primarily from 456 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: Tennessee and Kentucky in places like that are the ones 457 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: who become the early bear hunters. That's so much of 458 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: Arkansas's pre Civil War lore was was based around. Was 459 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: that it was that something that was based around like 460 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: economics back then, you know, like wildlife equated to to 461 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: some value or maybe like like today, maybe we'll be 462 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: diversifying your portfolio of something to where it's like, well, 463 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: if we don't have good ground and a good crop 464 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: this this season, we'll have plentiful game. You know, would 465 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: it be something like that. Yeah, that's a that's a 466 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: really good point because uh, a lot of those those 467 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: earliest set ors. Uh, they weren't just about having that 468 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: as a sideline. That was their main lot. That's where 469 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: they were. They were market hunters. And one of the 470 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: things that that a lot of people don't realize because 471 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: we have these sort of i think, romanticized notions of 472 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: the frontier, and we think of family units moving in, 473 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: mom and dad and all the kids and all, and 474 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: maybe you know, going out if if you're running low 475 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: on food, going out and killing a deer or something 476 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: like that. But there were tons of market hunters who 477 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: came in here in the very very early days. When 478 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: Henry Rose Schoolcraft, a New Yorker young, a greenhorn New 479 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: Yorker who almost died on the Ozark's frontier because he 480 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: didn't know how to hunt and didn't you know, didn't 481 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: know one weapon from another or anything like that. Yeah, well, 482 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: he got so bad. He and his his buddy Levi Pettybone, 483 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,479 Speaker 1: who was another New Yorker, and they had they had 484 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: come they were actually here scouting out minerals. They were 485 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: looking for lead and uff like that, and he got 486 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: so bad on their trip through through the Ozarks. And 487 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: in eighteen eighteen, eighteen nineteen that they were, uh, they 488 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: were roasting acrons further to survive on and they finally 489 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: paid somebody to kill him a deer and uh and 490 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: but what he found a school crad and he was 491 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: an educated guy. He did a lot of the writing 492 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: that came out of that, Right, I was gonna actually 493 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: ask you about him. Yeah, yeah, he he He helped 494 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: kind of frame what people thought of people in the 495 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: early Ozarks in Arkansas, and uh, it wasn't always good, 496 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: but but but but Schoolcraft estimated that there were probably 497 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: at the time he was here eighteen eighteen, eighteen nineteen, 498 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: that are there are probably a thousand market hunters living 499 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: in the White River Valley alone at that time, so 500 00:30:53,320 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: almost everyone, right, almost all of the non natives who 501 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: were living in the greater probably more like the White 502 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: River watershed instead of the valley. Uh, we're hunters and 503 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: they were, uh and they would you know, he even 504 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: described not not in his most famous book about his 505 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: journey through the Ozarks, but he wrote another book about 506 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: the lead mines in Missouri, which is actually why he 507 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: came here. And he talked about, uh, these these hunters 508 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: who would congregate, you know, on on White River and uh, 509 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: and would build rafts and send down just big rafts 510 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: full of hides and and and all in Bearre, Greece 511 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: and all and all that kind of stuff. I mean 512 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: it was uh, I mean, it's not the frontier that 513 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: we sometimes think of where everybody's just eking out a living. 514 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: These were people who were who were making money. That's 515 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: what that's what that's what they were doing. Yeah. Yeah, 516 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: the familiar with the with the idea that by the 517 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: time Europeans started to settle in this part of the world, 518 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: that Native American populations were really high pre European settlement, 519 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: and they like, like there was a time this is 520 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: all new to me, but like there was a time 521 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: period when they were maybe twelve too even as much 522 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: as somebody said eighteen million Native Americans pre European settlement, 523 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: and then something happened before we even got here that 524 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: killed him off, and in wildlife populations dramatically increased, so 525 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: that like what Lewis and Clark and what all these 526 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: guys said or saw in terms of numbers of wildlife 527 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: was actually an quote unquote an artifact, like a not 528 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: a true representation of the way it had been for 529 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: thousands of years. Is that a fair way to describe it. Yeah, 530 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: I think that that's that's definitely true. Of course, is 531 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: that true? I mean yeah, we we don't uh, we 532 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: don't know all the details because there's there's so little 533 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: written record from that era. But but we do know that, uh, 534 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: that disease wreaked havoc on native populations wherever Europeans and 535 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: and Africans went. You know, the people who had through 536 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: you know, generations and generations built up certain immunities to 537 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: to things that that the natives had no immunity to. 538 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: It depends on what historian you read. And and we 539 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: just don't know, but but some have estimated that as 540 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: many as nine percent of the native population died off 541 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: in these uh pandemics. Uh one of our key words 542 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 1: for today, Uh that and and and it happened in 543 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: a way that most Europeans weren't even aware of, but 544 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: because it had, it happened out of their sight. You know, 545 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: it just spread as you know, it took place over 546 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: hundreds of years too, I mean constantly got to Florida 547 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: and fifteen thirteen. Only reason I know that it's because 548 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: like yesterday I read but I mean he was am 549 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: I right? And saying he was pretty much the first. 550 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 1: He's yeah, he's early fifteen hundred Spanish explorers, and so 551 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: by the eighteen hundreds, I mean that's three hundred years 552 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,800 Speaker 1: white folks being here bringing all kinds of disease. Yeah, well, 553 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 1: well we know, uh, the first the first European exploratory 554 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: crew to come through, you know, near this neck of 555 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: the woods, de Soto. De Soto's people in later in 556 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: the fifteen hundreds. We know there are many more natives 557 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: in this part of America than there were basically a 558 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty years later or more. When the French 559 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: start coming in. It's you know, it's it's just and 560 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,720 Speaker 1: that affected wildlife populations. I guess that's that's thinking about 561 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: market hunters being here and be able to make it 562 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: a thousand market hunters in the White River drainage, being 563 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: able to make a living in use, saying that there 564 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:05,839 Speaker 1: weren't hardly there were very few natives here comparatively space. Yeah, 565 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: you think you think about even when you know when 566 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,320 Speaker 1: the when the French first show up around seventeen hundred 567 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: or so and make contact with the O s ages. Uh, 568 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: you know there there maybe ten thousand O s ages 569 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: and there there the big dogs in the middle of 570 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: the I mean, you know, you're talking it's just a 571 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 1: small town the people now, but but that's that's how 572 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 1: few of these people were there were and and even 573 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: the you know, the people that the Europeans found were 574 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: likely the remnants of you know, these masks here. I 575 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 1: mean like because we're there more Native Americans here at 576 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: another time. I guess I guess that asking the question 577 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: just answered, yeah, there there would have been, uh yeah, 578 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: and of course you know, there's all kinds of evidence 579 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 1: around the Ozarks, uh of Native American occupation. It's just 580 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: what we consider prehistoric before we have written evidence for Yeah. Yeah, 581 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: that's uh, that's not how everyone uses the term. But 582 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 1: in in in history, we we often say prehistory. Prehistoric 583 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: is before there was written knowledge of a started recording 584 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 1: stuff in the hundreds essentially in America's Yeah, yeah that 585 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: and uh so so certainly there were a lot more 586 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: and uh and that obviously had a had a major 587 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,919 Speaker 1: or you think about if if nine of us were 588 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: to die off a hundred fifty years from now, you 589 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 1: know how different the place would look, uh and and 590 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: so so, yeah, that that had a major influence on 591 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: on making the os arcs and especially a place like 592 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: the White River Valley just this mecca for for hunters 593 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:11,720 Speaker 1: for wildlife. How did you how did so? Now we're 594 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: we're up to speed with hunters being here market hunters 595 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 1: were in the eight we're in the early eighteen hundreds. Now, um, 596 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: how did so in your book? You know how bear 597 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: hunters and hillbillies defined the state? Talk to just talk 598 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: to me about that. Yeah, well, I think probably more 599 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,359 Speaker 1: than any other person in the preest Civil War os 600 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:40,319 Speaker 1: arcs and especially in Arkansas, because because Arkansas tended to 601 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: be more associated with bears than Missouri. Uh. Part of 602 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 1: that I think was the Boston Mountains are in Arkansas, 603 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: and that was that was good bear territory. The you know, 604 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: places like the Buffalo River Valley, the White River Valley. 605 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: There was just more good bear habitat down there. It's 606 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 1: just more rugged down there. Yeah. Yeah, it's just familier. Yeah, 607 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: it's easier to uh, it's you know, more remote even 608 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 1: today and and so. But but I think you know, 609 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:14,919 Speaker 1: those uh, the bear hunters were they were the they 610 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: were the sports stars of their era. You know, they 611 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 1: they were the they were the god this is what 612 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: I've been living for the moment when somebody like Dr 613 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: Brooks sports stars were the sports stars and and yeah, 614 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: I mean they they they were sort of the local celebrities. 615 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: They were uh, you know, people who because of course 616 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: many of them ended up in personal combat, not by choice, 617 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,960 Speaker 1: occasionally by crazy choice. But but but there was there 618 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 1: was something about bear hunters that sort of made them 619 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: at the top of the list. If you were a 620 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 1: little boy growing up in the Ozarks in the eighteen 621 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: thirties or forties, that's probably who you idolized. Was it 622 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: was someone who was a bear hunter, and that's who 623 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: you told stories about. And but it was you know, 624 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: it was a very kind of hyper masculine thing to 625 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: to go out there and uh uh to take your 626 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,840 Speaker 1: dogs and and uh to hunt down you know, the biggest, 627 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 1: baddest animals in in the back country and and sometimes 628 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: him them up in caves and go in go in 629 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 1: after them, and and that kind of stuff. And of 630 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 1: course there are there are stories of of of men 631 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: killing bears in close combat with their knives and and 632 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:45,360 Speaker 1: and and stuff like that. Documentations to it. Yeah, it 633 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 1: made basically they used a lot of hounds. Yeah, we 634 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,359 Speaker 1: can't use hounds in Arkansas anymore for running big game, 635 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 1: but they would they would go in with their booty 636 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: knives and sho off bears that were being paid on 637 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: the ground by by with dogs. And then the other 638 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,320 Speaker 1: thing you mentioned, which I think this will blow people's 639 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 1: minds that it blew mine when I learned about it, 640 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: was but they would they would hunt these bears in 641 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: the dens, so in the wintertime they would find a 642 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: bear den. And again right now, to go out in 643 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,320 Speaker 1: those arcs and find a bear den would be a 644 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 1: pretty tough deal. But if they were fifty thousand bears 645 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,320 Speaker 1: in Arkansas, which was kind of the pre European number 646 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:31,720 Speaker 1: biologists throw around that of population. I've been on several 647 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,279 Speaker 1: bear den trips with Arkansas Game of Fish, and you 648 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: can you can usually tell a bear den um, I 649 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:41,880 Speaker 1: mean you could spot one just because they come in 650 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 1: and out of them even during the winter, and like 651 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: like so the idea that because when I first heard that, 652 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: I was like, well, how did you how did they 653 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,359 Speaker 1: find a bear den? But these guys would go into 654 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,840 Speaker 1: bear dens with little uh pine kindling they called them, 655 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,800 Speaker 1: I can't remember what they used to call it. Kindlers 656 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: or something. I would call it a true something. Yeah, 657 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 1: and crawl into these dens and shoot a bear back 658 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 1: in a cave and the stone caves. Yeah, just crazy 659 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 1: that it doesn't doesn't sound crazy, uh but yeah, I mean, 660 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 1: and part of it too, is we know that there 661 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:22,840 Speaker 1: have been pretty pretty serious climatic changes since the nineteenth century. 662 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:29,760 Speaker 1: The nineteenth century was was a comparably cold century for 663 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,279 Speaker 1: for much of North America. And what you find in 664 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,359 Speaker 1: a lot of those stories of of pre Civil War 665 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 1: bear hunts is they're tracking them through the snow and 666 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: and and so it's reasonable to think that there there 667 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 1: probably was more denning up of bears, and you know, 668 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: the weather was colder. There are a lot more snows 669 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,799 Speaker 1: and and and and it's pretty amazing how many of 670 00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 1: these stories are you know, they're they're hunting techniques, were 671 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: tracking stuff through the snow, you know, which is I mean, 672 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: that's you know, if you're if you're gonna make it 673 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 1: easier in yourself, that's one of the easier things to 674 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: do is just track things through a fresh snow anymore. No, 675 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,759 Speaker 1: I mean, we you know, it's been it's been years 676 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 1: since we've had a had a decent snow that you 677 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:23,319 Speaker 1: could track anything. But uh but but you know that's 678 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: another thing that's that's changed since those early days. You 679 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 1: you you know, we just don't know, we don't have 680 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:33,480 Speaker 1: the same climate patterns or or something that that they did. 681 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:38,440 Speaker 1: Then a lot more bears, good bear habitat and uh, 682 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: you know the and as we talked about, so many 683 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 1: of those bear hunters were were market hunters. Uh. They 684 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 1: weren't just you know Grandpa Joe who decided tuesd yeah, 685 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 1: to to go out and you know looking looking for bears. Uh. 686 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,399 Speaker 1: People kind of stayed in their own lane is even 687 00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,360 Speaker 1: back in those days when that was concerned. And and 688 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: you find plenty of stories of people taking out you know, 689 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 1: tenderfoots or or greenhorns and then having fun with him. 690 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,720 Speaker 1: I know one of the stories I was reading recently 691 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,880 Speaker 1: and in Turnbow's book, which is a which is just 692 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:26,200 Speaker 1: a what's the Yeah, it's uh the White River Chronicles 693 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 1: of sc turnbow Man and Wildlife on the Ozark's Frontier, 694 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,359 Speaker 1: And it's just just full of bear hunt stories and 695 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,839 Speaker 1: panther stories and all that kind of stuff. And one 696 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,800 Speaker 1: of my favorites was the the two Seasoned Bear hunters 697 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: who take a a greenhorn out and they get they 698 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,279 Speaker 1: get off ahead of him. They kill about a half 699 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,279 Speaker 1: grown bear and shoving back up in the fork of 700 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,520 Speaker 1: a tree. And then the greenhorn comes up and they 701 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 1: spot the bear and he shoots him numerous times, and 702 00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,799 Speaker 1: the bear just lays there and and of course he's thinking, 703 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,600 Speaker 1: he's he's a terrible shot or something something going on. 704 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:04,879 Speaker 1: And and I finally he gets close enough to see 705 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,839 Speaker 1: if his tongue hanging out, and the guy says, I'm 706 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 1: gonna make him think stick his tongue out, and you know, 707 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,839 Speaker 1: takes another shot at hiven finally get up close enough 708 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,480 Speaker 1: and and uh, I'm sure have a great laugh at 709 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 1: his expense. He's been shooting at dead dead bear. Of 710 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: course that probably didn't do wonders for the hide. But uh, 711 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: but you know, it's you know it is uh. Bear 712 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,360 Speaker 1: hunting was just just a central part of that culture. 713 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 1: I I kind of you know, my original question I 714 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,719 Speaker 1: kind of red derailed you there was how did it 715 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,360 Speaker 1: influence the culture? And what she said and makes a 716 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,839 Speaker 1: lot of sense, like today we are you know, nobody's 717 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,719 Speaker 1: market hyn for bears. These guys would have killed hundreds 718 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: of bears in their lifetime. I mean, and and we 719 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 1: we know a lot of guys that are very into 720 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: bear hunting. And you know, if a guys killed twenty 721 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,719 Speaker 1: bears and modern times, that's you know, he's killed quite 722 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: a few bears. Most people hadn't killed them. But I mean, 723 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 1: these guys, and I'm thinking about the way would influence 724 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,200 Speaker 1: of culture. This would be your neighbors, this would be 725 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:15,799 Speaker 1: your uncle's, this would be your father. If they were 726 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 1: a market hunter may have killed hundreds of bears. So 727 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 1: there's so much surface area for wild stories, for things 728 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:27,319 Speaker 1: to happen. And and I mean, you know that that 729 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,040 Speaker 1: makes sense to me how it would influence a culture. 730 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,560 Speaker 1: You know, uh in bear hunters would become these like 731 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,880 Speaker 1: elite kind of superstar like people inside of the culture. 732 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,279 Speaker 1: And a bear was worth a lot of money. Oh yeah, 733 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,600 Speaker 1: Do you do you have any idea? I've read a 734 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 1: few things, but I want to hear you say, do 735 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 1: you have any idea how much they were worth? I 736 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 1: should and I and I actually have in one of 737 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,920 Speaker 1: my books, uh some some numbers, but but off the 738 00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,760 Speaker 1: top of my head, I I can't. Well, I've probably 739 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,600 Speaker 1: read from you and it's been years since I read it, 740 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 1: but I remember them saying that a bear hide could 741 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,799 Speaker 1: be sold for like eight or nine dollars, like a 742 00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,879 Speaker 1: big bear hide, and and and this makes sense mid 743 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,480 Speaker 1: eight undreds, and that that an eel of bar oil, 744 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:21,040 Speaker 1: which an eel was the tanned hide of a deer's 745 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,319 Speaker 1: neck sewn together, about a gallon and a half or 746 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:28,400 Speaker 1: two gallons of barrel oil could be sold for I 747 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,919 Speaker 1: don't know, four or five dollars or something like that. 748 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,759 Speaker 1: And then and then the meat could be sold for 749 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 1: a certain amount per pound if they could get it 750 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,239 Speaker 1: back to market. I remember wants to this ten twelve 751 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,120 Speaker 1: years ago. I did a calculation and it was like 752 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,240 Speaker 1: you could probably make like fifteen bucks off of a 753 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,960 Speaker 1: big bear, which during that time would have been like 754 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:52,880 Speaker 1: making a ton of money. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Is that 755 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:54,759 Speaker 1: in the ball park? You think? Yeah? I think so. 756 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:59,080 Speaker 1: I think so that. I mean, that's uh, that's that's 757 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,400 Speaker 1: what they were in the business for. And that's why 758 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,680 Speaker 1: in the in the pre Civil War days, there were 759 00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:10,120 Speaker 1: even almost you know, factory sized operations set up. Maybe 760 00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,160 Speaker 1: the the biggest one that I came across was right 761 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,000 Speaker 1: on the Missouri Arkansas border at the mouth of Bear Creek, 762 00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 1: and we can guess how it got its name, but 763 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,560 Speaker 1: they had they had a it was a bare oil 764 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,799 Speaker 1: rendering plant basically set up there, and they would have 765 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:29,399 Speaker 1: you know, and they had these big troughs that they 766 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,800 Speaker 1: would you know, render the bear oil in and and 767 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,600 Speaker 1: and it. At one time there were several employees of 768 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,000 Speaker 1: this thing, uh and and of course it was right 769 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,880 Speaker 1: on White River, so they could just float everything down 770 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,120 Speaker 1: stream to market to New Orleans or you know, to 771 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,160 Speaker 1: wherever they're and they're going to market with that. But 772 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,239 Speaker 1: it was, you know, it was very much a commercial 773 00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:56,160 Speaker 1: operation there. And there's even a town down below Batesville 774 00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:01,360 Speaker 1: called Old trough And uh and it's it's just outside 775 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:03,880 Speaker 1: the Ozarks, just right in the corner of the delta there, 776 00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,279 Speaker 1: right when you go out of the hills. And there 777 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,479 Speaker 1: are a couple of different stories about how the town 778 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:10,719 Speaker 1: got its name. The one that I've always going with 779 00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,960 Speaker 1: just because it's it's the better the two stories. You know, 780 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:18,040 Speaker 1: who really knows at this point. But there there were 781 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:22,840 Speaker 1: so many of these bear oil rendering plants up in 782 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:24,879 Speaker 1: the hill country and the Ozarks, and they had all 783 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,719 Speaker 1: these these troughs that they specially made you know, to 784 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,680 Speaker 1: hold this bar oil in before they you know, put 785 00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,960 Speaker 1: it in more you know, permanent holdings. And at times 786 00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,719 Speaker 1: when in the spring, when the floods would come or 787 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,520 Speaker 1: the river would get up, it would wash a lot 788 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,839 Speaker 1: of these troughs downstream, and they would they would wash 789 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,640 Speaker 1: out of the Ozarks. And Old Trough is kind of 790 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,680 Speaker 1: the first place where White River widens out into this 791 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:55,200 Speaker 1: big muddy bottom land river quits being a hill river 792 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,320 Speaker 1: in terms, and in this big bottom land expanse, these 793 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,400 Speaker 1: old troll would wash up on shore down there, and 794 00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,759 Speaker 1: that little community that pops up uh takes the name 795 00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:09,040 Speaker 1: Old Trough from all these open It was because they 796 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:15,920 Speaker 1: made it there. That's that's the Yeah, that's the other story. Uh. 797 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:20,640 Speaker 1: Being uh uh historian of the Ozarks, I've always going 798 00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,160 Speaker 1: with the one that they're they're washing out of the Ozarks. 799 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:27,520 Speaker 1: But but and I'm sure they probably did, uh do 800 00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,279 Speaker 1: do some industrial work down there at Old Trough too, 801 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,680 Speaker 1: So either either way, I mean, it's you know, it's 802 00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,120 Speaker 1: the bear industry that that names that town. Hey, listen 803 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,279 Speaker 1: to this, you might you might find this interesting. A 804 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:43,840 Speaker 1: couple of years ago, a chef from New Orleans that 805 00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:47,920 Speaker 1: was writing a book about making gumbo. Uh Black, I 806 00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,319 Speaker 1: can't remember his name. I mean, he kind of became 807 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:55,600 Speaker 1: an acquaintance. He was writing a really legit cookbook about gumbo, 808 00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,880 Speaker 1: and he looked he just randomly looked on the internet 809 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,279 Speaker 1: trying to find some it in Arkansas. That was a 810 00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,799 Speaker 1: bear hunter because he wanted bar oil to make a 811 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:09,759 Speaker 1: traditionally a historic rue for gumbo, and they used to 812 00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,760 Speaker 1: use barrel oil. He found somewhere in the in the 813 00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,239 Speaker 1: documentation of how they were getting barrel oil out of 814 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,400 Speaker 1: the ozarks in New Orleans, and it was in It 815 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,480 Speaker 1: was in a recipe used barrel oil. And so he 816 00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,719 Speaker 1: was like, well, where the heck did barrel oil come from? 817 00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,600 Speaker 1: And anyway, so he contacted me and and uh and 818 00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,680 Speaker 1: I had I rendered a lot of barrel oil and 819 00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,560 Speaker 1: u um and uh. So I sent him a pint 820 00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,600 Speaker 1: of barrel oil. You didn't send it down White River. 821 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,759 Speaker 1: I put it on a steamboat and send it out. No, 822 00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,280 Speaker 1: but I sent it to him in uh In. Anyway, 823 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,239 Speaker 1: he told me the rue was great. He had some 824 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,160 Speaker 1: high falute and chef down there tasted and the guy 825 00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,760 Speaker 1: said that he could he could taste the wild inside 826 00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:56,719 Speaker 1: of it, which yeah, I don't know. That's just what 827 00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,440 Speaker 1: he told me. They're they're the experts. We'll take the 828 00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,759 Speaker 1: word for yeah, that that and yeah, there were there 829 00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:06,320 Speaker 1: were there were different uses for that barrel. One of 830 00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,160 Speaker 1: the ones that you come across a lot that the 831 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,759 Speaker 1: people in the Ozarks would use it for candles to make, 832 00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,760 Speaker 1: uh you know, for a lighting, and they preferred they 833 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:21,160 Speaker 1: would sometimes use the tallow from from cows, but they 834 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:28,040 Speaker 1: preferred uh you know, yeah, they preferred using deer or 835 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,880 Speaker 1: bear to make. Did it actually burn is fuel or 836 00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:34,879 Speaker 1: was it did they just put the wick inside of 837 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:39,040 Speaker 1: some kind of solidified that? Yeah, that I that. I 838 00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:42,920 Speaker 1: don't know, uh if you know exactly how they did that, 839 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,160 Speaker 1: but you know, I've seen references to to using those 840 00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,719 Speaker 1: and I think there was even a factory, well there 841 00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:51,879 Speaker 1: had been many factories, but it seems like I read 842 00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:55,400 Speaker 1: about a factory in St. Louis that that used maybe 843 00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,560 Speaker 1: deer and bear for you know, for candle making. And 844 00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:03,359 Speaker 1: so yeah, do you do you have much insight into 845 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:05,759 Speaker 1: how Arkansas became known as the Bear State, like a 846 00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:08,719 Speaker 1: like officially, Like I mean, I realized it was from 847 00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,080 Speaker 1: all this stuff we're talking about, but like, was there 848 00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:14,760 Speaker 1: a time or was there a person that said that 849 00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:18,359 Speaker 1: that all of a sudden it became Yeah, I think 850 00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:23,960 Speaker 1: we're I think really the the nickname the bear State, 851 00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,160 Speaker 1: and a lot of the legends came more from fictional 852 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:31,799 Speaker 1: accounts than they did from actual, you know, historical accounts. 853 00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,920 Speaker 1: Because what happens is and it's really just a matter 854 00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:39,040 Speaker 1: of perfect timing. Uh. In the in the eighteen thirties 855 00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:44,160 Speaker 1: and eighteen forties, maybe kind of during the real heyday 856 00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,080 Speaker 1: of this bear hunting in Arkansas, you also have the 857 00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:51,840 Speaker 1: rise of a whole new genre of literature. Uh, this 858 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:56,919 Speaker 1: kind of this you know, this southern uh well, Southwestern 859 00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,279 Speaker 1: human I said, yeah, I forgot about the name their 860 00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:03,120 Speaker 1: Southwestern humor that comes along. And and Arkansas is just 861 00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,200 Speaker 1: kind of perfectly placed for this because it's on the frontier. 862 00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,000 Speaker 1: Arkansas becomes a state in the eighteen thirty six, so, 863 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,440 Speaker 1: which is right about the time this starts, and so 864 00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:15,839 Speaker 1: it's the newest of the southern states, it's the least populated, 865 00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:19,120 Speaker 1: it's probably got the best bear hunting at that time, 866 00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,239 Speaker 1: and they're all kinds of stories already coming out. And 867 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:26,240 Speaker 1: so some of the early writers in the Southwestern humor 868 00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:31,399 Speaker 1: genre start writing stories CFM. Nolan's probably uh the most 869 00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,799 Speaker 1: famous of the writers. Who who he writes about a 870 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:39,920 Speaker 1: hunter who lives in the Ozarks. Who Pete Whetstone is 871 00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:45,960 Speaker 1: his name, and he's he's a hunters yeah, and but 872 00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:49,680 Speaker 1: he's he's I'm sure he's. Uh. Nolan actually lived in 873 00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:54,799 Speaker 1: Batesville and he probably you know, used characteristics from from 874 00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,919 Speaker 1: actual hunters. He knew to to craft this this wet 875 00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:02,120 Speaker 1: Stone character. And then and uh and then even more 876 00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:05,600 Speaker 1: famous in the early eighteen forties, there's a there's a 877 00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,160 Speaker 1: a short story written called The Big Bear of Arkansas, 878 00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:16,040 Speaker 1: and it becomes maybe the quintessential Southwestern humor short story. 879 00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:18,400 Speaker 1: Almost all of this was in short story form. And 880 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:22,000 Speaker 1: what it was is these were published in what we're 881 00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,920 Speaker 1: called sporting newspapers or sporting publications of the day. They 882 00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:29,719 Speaker 1: were mostly published in New York and it was it 883 00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:34,320 Speaker 1: was uh, wealthy or what we might call middle class 884 00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,160 Speaker 1: men in New York and the Northeast who are reading 885 00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:42,520 Speaker 1: these stories similar and similar to the kind of romantic 886 00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,560 Speaker 1: mindset of say ger Sticker, the German early These are 887 00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:49,360 Speaker 1: people who live a more middle class, more civilized life 888 00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:53,400 Speaker 1: and are kind of living vicariously through these wild stories 889 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:57,200 Speaker 1: of people in the backwoods and on the frontier. And 890 00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,760 Speaker 1: and they're usually funny stories. Uh, and they they become 891 00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:08,640 Speaker 1: very popular. And this this you know, yeah, and the 892 00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,040 Speaker 1: Spirit of the Spirit of the Times Big Bear of 893 00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,719 Speaker 1: Arkansas Thomas S. Bang Thorpe's Yeah. Yeah, and he was 894 00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,759 Speaker 1: he actually wasn't. I think it's the only story he 895 00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:22,319 Speaker 1: ever wrote based in Arkansas. His uh, his story was 896 00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:26,560 Speaker 1: actually set more in South Arkansas over in the Delta. Yeah. 897 00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:30,799 Speaker 1: And it's basically it's just the story. It's it's made up. 898 00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,120 Speaker 1: It's a story within a story. You know. He encounters 899 00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:38,520 Speaker 1: this this bear hunter on a steamboat on the Mississippi. 900 00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:41,560 Speaker 1: The bear hunter starts telling this story story. It's uh, 901 00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,960 Speaker 1: it's in many ways, the story itself is kind of 902 00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,879 Speaker 1: a precursor to Moby Dick. It's this this hunter who 903 00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,360 Speaker 1: becomes obsessed with his with his prey, and he becomes 904 00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:57,239 Speaker 1: obsessed with his big be He he wanted to He 905 00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,000 Speaker 1: was trying to kill a bear that he believed was unkillable. 906 00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:02,840 Speaker 1: It was a bear that was still in his hogs. 907 00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,719 Speaker 1: And this guy's name is Jim dogg It Dog. It 908 00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:11,120 Speaker 1: was metaphorical too, because he was a dog hunter. They 909 00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:14,799 Speaker 1: were pursuing these bears with dogs. I actually quoted this 910 00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,479 Speaker 1: this big Bear of Arkansas the other day and something 911 00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:21,279 Speaker 1: I was writing because Jim dogg It and and this 912 00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:24,279 Speaker 1: is interesting to me because this came from somewhere, like 913 00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,920 Speaker 1: this ideology came from somewhere, and Thomas Spankthorpe's wrote it. 914 00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,680 Speaker 1: But he said, so the story inside the story is 915 00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:36,759 Speaker 1: this fictional bear hunter mesmerizing a crowd on a riverboat 916 00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,040 Speaker 1: about a bear story that he was telling. And he 917 00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:45,759 Speaker 1: said when he saw his hounds pursuing this bear from 918 00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:49,239 Speaker 1: a long distance, he said, I saw him, and wasn't 919 00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,560 Speaker 1: he a beauty? I loved him like a brother. I'm 920 00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:55,280 Speaker 1: pretty sure that's almost the exact quote. But Jim dogg 921 00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,359 Speaker 1: It said that. So here he is. And again I'm 922 00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:03,759 Speaker 1: trying to find like these peeks back into the origins 923 00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,600 Speaker 1: kind of the type of hunting that we do. And 924 00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,759 Speaker 1: now so much of our hunting we're saying, man, we're 925 00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,440 Speaker 1: not just bloodthirsty killers. Were actually we actually love wildlife, 926 00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:16,560 Speaker 1: we actually want to see them thrive. And here's this 927 00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:21,400 Speaker 1: market hunter presumably who says I saw I saw the bear, 928 00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,600 Speaker 1: and I loved him like a brother. And he he 929 00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:26,760 Speaker 1: he made his statement that he the bear was just 930 00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,480 Speaker 1: walking up the hill and the dogs were right on 931 00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:31,800 Speaker 1: his tail, and he said he didn't know if the 932 00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:36,120 Speaker 1: bear was just lazy or if he didn't care. Uh, 933 00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:37,920 Speaker 1: And it was like, you know, it just painted this 934 00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,560 Speaker 1: picture of this like mythical creature that could care less 935 00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,560 Speaker 1: that there were twelve dogs biting on his heels, you know. 936 00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,400 Speaker 1: And uh, anyway, but I looked, I looked at that, 937 00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,520 Speaker 1: and I drew from it that even in the midst 938 00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:56,960 Speaker 1: of these guys that really misused wildlife, resourced massively, I mean, 939 00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:02,640 Speaker 1: the demised populations of animals all across North America, they 940 00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:05,240 Speaker 1: just didn't know any better, and they still had this 941 00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:09,160 Speaker 1: deep appreciation even even inside of a story like that 942 00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:12,280 Speaker 1: that's not even a real story. But Thomas spain Thorpe 943 00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:17,760 Speaker 1: somehow knew that hunters really valued the animal that they 944 00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:21,280 Speaker 1: were pursuing, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think 945 00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:27,040 Speaker 1: you know, and I think, uh, from our modern perspective, uh, 946 00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,680 Speaker 1: you know, we you know, we would we want to 947 00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,960 Speaker 1: think of them, you know, having a certain respect for 948 00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:36,360 Speaker 1: the game. You know, we know that uh that Native Americans, 949 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:39,520 Speaker 1: you know, practice a certain respect for the things. And 950 00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:43,080 Speaker 1: I think I think a lot of these hunters had 951 00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:45,360 Speaker 1: to have gained that at some point. I mean, they 952 00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:50,480 Speaker 1: knowing that the adversaries that these these game animals were, 953 00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,400 Speaker 1: and I think they they did have a have a 954 00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:56,640 Speaker 1: respect for how hard they were to kill, and and 955 00:58:56,680 --> 00:59:01,040 Speaker 1: how resourceful they could be, and how you know, how 956 00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,720 Speaker 1: human like sometimes they could be. And you know, and 957 00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:08,680 Speaker 1: because these people got got you know, you read so 958 00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:13,640 Speaker 1: many stories where their encounters we're so up close and 959 00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:17,320 Speaker 1: so you know, breath to breath, you know, you know 960 00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:21,080 Speaker 1: they're I mean they're they're you know, making contact, physical 961 00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,440 Speaker 1: contact with these animals when they're still alive in some cases. 962 00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:27,600 Speaker 1: And so you know, there has to be a certain 963 00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:31,160 Speaker 1: level of respect, a certain level of fear, knowing that 964 00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:33,920 Speaker 1: you know that that I may not be the one 965 00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:37,400 Speaker 1: that comes out of this alive. So it's you know, 966 00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:40,480 Speaker 1: it's there's a you know, there's a different kind of 967 00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:44,480 Speaker 1: uh feeling. I think that that you get from reading 968 00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:48,720 Speaker 1: some of these old encounters of bear stories. You know, 969 00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:54,120 Speaker 1: they say a gir Stoker um he alluded to in 970 00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:56,640 Speaker 1: his book called Wild Sports that we talked about little 971 00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:58,720 Speaker 1: bit ago and he was this guy that came over 972 00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:02,040 Speaker 1: for like seven years into the Ozarks and Washingtons and hunted. 973 01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:06,439 Speaker 1: He made mention several times in his book about what 974 01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:10,160 Speaker 1: he perceived. He just kind of nuanced towards it that 975 01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:15,080 Speaker 1: the way that we were handling wildlife was not good. 976 01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:17,960 Speaker 1: There's a few player I can't remember the details, but 977 01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:20,640 Speaker 1: like he alluded to the fact of and what he 978 01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,160 Speaker 1: saw coming was true, which you know, by the late 979 01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:27,960 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, bear were just pretty much gone out of 980 01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:31,120 Speaker 1: the out of the Ozarks and Washingtons are really bad. 981 01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:34,000 Speaker 1: By the nineteen twenties and thirties is when it really 982 01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,520 Speaker 1: and and really and you're right. Uh, even even by 983 01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:42,840 Speaker 1: the late eighteen hundreds, Uh, it was rare to see 984 01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:45,680 Speaker 1: you know, even people who grew up in the Ozarks 985 01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,360 Speaker 1: then it was a rare thing to to see a bear. 986 01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:52,160 Speaker 1: And it is You see a lot of stories of 987 01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:56,560 Speaker 1: the the you know, the wanton destruction of of wildlife, 988 01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:58,919 Speaker 1: and it is a sad thing. There are all kinds 989 01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:01,720 Speaker 1: of stories. This is the same with with deer. You know, 990 01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,240 Speaker 1: it was maybe even more destructive with deer. It was 991 01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:09,200 Speaker 1: very common for hunters to kill a deer, skin it 992 01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:14,040 Speaker 1: out and just leave the carcass. Yeah, just you know, literally, 993 01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:16,360 Speaker 1: you know, I was, I was reading a story the 994 01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:18,360 Speaker 1: other day. I think it's one of those turnbow stories 995 01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:20,960 Speaker 1: about two guys who had a contest on White River. 996 01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:25,600 Speaker 1: They were, uh, they were torch hunting. Uh, they were 997 01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:28,400 Speaker 1: fire hunting. And they sometimes called it what I guess, 998 01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:31,920 Speaker 1: the you know, the nineteenth century equivalent to spotlighting what 999 01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,360 Speaker 1: we might do today. You know, they were they were 1000 01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,040 Speaker 1: shooting the pairs of eyes and stuff like that, and 1001 01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:41,880 Speaker 1: they they floated down White River and to see which 1002 01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:45,480 Speaker 1: one could kill the most deer at night. And they 1003 01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:48,800 Speaker 1: went back the next day Skindal Mount through the carcasses 1004 01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:52,640 Speaker 1: in the river. And you just see so many cases 1005 01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:57,920 Speaker 1: of that. You see cases of sometimes the you know, 1006 01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:03,480 Speaker 1: cruel treatment of animal. Uh. It's one of the There 1007 01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:08,200 Speaker 1: were lots and lots of gray wolves, timberwolves in in 1008 01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:11,720 Speaker 1: the Ozarks and in the early days, uh, throughout much 1009 01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:19,080 Speaker 1: of the nineteenth century, and those early settlers with torture those. Yeah, 1010 01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:23,840 Speaker 1: there there are stories of people catching them and skinning 1011 01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:27,680 Speaker 1: them alive, of you know, cutting the tendons on their 1012 01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:31,520 Speaker 1: on their back legs and then having them fight you know, 1013 01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:34,400 Speaker 1: five packs of dogs and and and stuff like that. 1014 01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:37,880 Speaker 1: And even one guy I read about I mentioned him 1015 01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:42,200 Speaker 1: in in the first volume of my History of the Ozarks. Uh, 1016 01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:45,600 Speaker 1: he talked about how bad he felt after after doing 1017 01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:47,960 Speaker 1: this and he and he said, I'm you know, I'm 1018 01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,040 Speaker 1: never gonna do this again, and he didn't. But it 1019 01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:54,800 Speaker 1: was you know, part of it, I think was there 1020 01:02:54,880 --> 01:03:00,160 Speaker 1: was this sort of inherited folklore idea of the wolf. 1021 01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:02,320 Speaker 1: You know, you think about all the wolves we have 1022 01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:05,400 Speaker 1: and in the you know, children's tales and folklore and 1023 01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:07,919 Speaker 1: stuff like that, they were almost like demonic or yeah, 1024 01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:09,720 Speaker 1: and they you know, a lot of this was brought 1025 01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:12,160 Speaker 1: over from Europe. It was just this kind of ancient 1026 01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:14,920 Speaker 1: hatred for wolves. And then a lot of it was 1027 01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:20,400 Speaker 1: economic too. Wolves were they were very destructive to two hogs, 1028 01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:23,840 Speaker 1: to to cattle, you know, their their pack hunters. They're 1029 01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:28,200 Speaker 1: they're much more destructive than even uh, you know, a cougar, 1030 01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:31,960 Speaker 1: what the what the early settlers called panthers and so so, 1031 01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:34,880 Speaker 1: you know, I think it was that combination of we're 1032 01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:40,280 Speaker 1: saving our livestock and we're getting rid of these these devils, uh, 1033 01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:42,480 Speaker 1: you know, at the same time, and it was you know, 1034 01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:44,960 Speaker 1: some pretty cruel stuff you don't see that with bears, 1035 01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:49,640 Speaker 1: you know, you don't see that with predatory livestyle. Even 1036 01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:53,280 Speaker 1: though well even Jim Dogget story that bear was being 1037 01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,960 Speaker 1: predatory on a pig, but it was less it was 1038 01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:59,960 Speaker 1: less common. Yeah, and even uh, even some of the 1039 01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:07,440 Speaker 1: stories of of aggressive bears, uh, maybe as much folklore 1040 01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:11,880 Speaker 1: as they are. In fact, the probably the most common 1041 01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:15,440 Speaker 1: story that I've come across. And I've actually seen two 1042 01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:17,840 Speaker 1: different versions of this. It probably happened once and then 1043 01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:22,160 Speaker 1: it became different stories. But it's the story of the 1044 01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:26,040 Speaker 1: uh uh, the young woman and her children who are 1045 01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:28,600 Speaker 1: or who are at home. The father, the hunter goes 1046 01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:31,560 Speaker 1: off on this this long hunt somewhere and all of 1047 01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:35,480 Speaker 1: a sudden the bear shows up and and uh, of 1048 01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:38,480 Speaker 1: course in the early days, cabins and you know, they 1049 01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:40,640 Speaker 1: could pretty much knock a door down if they wanted 1050 01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:43,520 Speaker 1: to on some of those things. But the story, uh 1051 01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:47,280 Speaker 1: is that, you know, the woman lifts has a has 1052 01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:50,960 Speaker 1: a seller under the punching floor and shoves her kids 1053 01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,080 Speaker 1: under their gets under there just big enough to to 1054 01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:54,920 Speaker 1: hold her in a in a couple of kids, and 1055 01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:57,760 Speaker 1: the bear comes into the house and scratching around on 1056 01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:01,040 Speaker 1: the punching floor and finally sniffs some stiffs l moud 1057 01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:03,520 Speaker 1: and is you know, trying to trying to lift up 1058 01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:07,000 Speaker 1: the puncheons and get to them when a when a 1059 01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:11,840 Speaker 1: calf balls out out in the backyard. And one story 1060 01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:16,080 Speaker 1: it's a buffalo calf that the family has has adopted 1061 01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:19,480 Speaker 1: after after killing yeah, after killing the mother. And another 1062 01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:21,840 Speaker 1: story is just you know, a regular bovine, you know, 1063 01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:25,320 Speaker 1: just a regular a cow's calf. But in both stories, 1064 01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:29,200 Speaker 1: the buffalo, you know, the bear's ears are perked up 1065 01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:31,560 Speaker 1: by the sound of this this ball of a of 1066 01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:33,680 Speaker 1: a young calf, and he goes outside, kills the calf 1067 01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:37,080 Speaker 1: and eats the calf. In one story, the hunter shows 1068 01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:39,480 Speaker 1: up while he's still eating the calf, he kills the bear. 1069 01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:42,440 Speaker 1: And the other one, the bear eats the buffalo calf 1070 01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:45,920 Speaker 1: and heads off back into the cane brake somewhere and 1071 01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:49,720 Speaker 1: they don't see him anymore. But uh, but you know 1072 01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:54,320 Speaker 1: that those stories were passed down for generations as well, 1073 01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:58,080 Speaker 1: and sometimes you don't know if they're just scary animal 1074 01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:01,280 Speaker 1: stories that somebody concoct it where if it happened once 1075 01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,200 Speaker 1: and it was such a good story that it takes 1076 01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:06,760 Speaker 1: on a different form in every community that he goes 1077 01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:09,160 Speaker 1: to and all of a sudden it's happening, you know, 1078 01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:11,520 Speaker 1: at a different time and do a different family and 1079 01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:15,640 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Yeah, amazing. You know, it's hard 1080 01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:20,880 Speaker 1: for me to envision a timber wolf being in the Ozarks. 1081 01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:24,400 Speaker 1: I mean they were here undoubtably. I mean, like uh 1082 01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:28,840 Speaker 1: ger stalkers accounts. He talked about panthers, talked about wolves, 1083 01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:33,360 Speaker 1: talked about black bears. Um. Yeah, he was hunting woodland 1084 01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:35,880 Speaker 1: I guess what they'd call woodland bison and he while 1085 01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:38,280 Speaker 1: he was here, he never killed one, but he found 1086 01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:40,320 Speaker 1: their tracks and hunted him once for three or four 1087 01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:42,880 Speaker 1: days in the snow and but never found him. But 1088 01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:44,400 Speaker 1: that was one of the main reasons he came to 1089 01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:49,320 Speaker 1: the Ozarks. I think it was the closest bison herds 1090 01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:53,160 Speaker 1: to maybe where he could, you know, from the east. Yeah, yeah, 1091 01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:55,320 Speaker 1: I think that's right. I think that's that's the farthest 1092 01:06:55,360 --> 01:07:01,000 Speaker 1: east ventured. Yeah, into the White River Valley. Yeah. Yeah, 1093 01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:04,680 Speaker 1: in the in the the western Ozarks, they uh where 1094 01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:06,680 Speaker 1: it turns into a little bit of prairie, you know, 1095 01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,440 Speaker 1: just just west of you know, Fayettablle and over in 1096 01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,680 Speaker 1: that area they were. They would have been pretty pretty 1097 01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:16,760 Speaker 1: common over there, and uh even even elks, you know, 1098 01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:19,320 Speaker 1: the the eastern elk was it was very common in 1099 01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:23,240 Speaker 1: the early Ozarks and there's lots of stories of the 1100 01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:27,760 Speaker 1: killing of those that The last one of the uh, 1101 01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:31,520 Speaker 1: the eastern elks reported to have been killed in the 1102 01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:34,360 Speaker 1: Ozarks was in the eighteen eighties on a place called 1103 01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:38,320 Speaker 1: Elk Creek in in south central Missouri, and that was 1104 01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:41,640 Speaker 1: kind of the last holdout of the It was kind 1105 01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:45,400 Speaker 1: of high country in there. Uh it was the beginning, 1106 01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,960 Speaker 1: you know, the start of several creeks and rivers that 1107 01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,720 Speaker 1: went in different directions in that high plateau country and 1108 01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:55,800 Speaker 1: uh and yeah, that was uh, that's where the last 1109 01:07:57,000 --> 01:08:00,320 Speaker 1: elk was ever spotted. A lot they they apparently old 1110 01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:03,960 Speaker 1: one of a pair there and finally somebody decided, hey, 1111 01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:05,680 Speaker 1: that may end up been the best thing in the 1112 01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:07,520 Speaker 1: world to do, and they left the other one alone, 1113 01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:10,520 Speaker 1: I guess, until he died. But uh, you know that's 1114 01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:15,080 Speaker 1: there's a lot of elk lore in in early Ozarks too, 1115 01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:19,320 Speaker 1: and it's and from what I understand that the Eastern 1116 01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:23,240 Speaker 1: elks uh slightly different, maybe even a little bigger than 1117 01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:26,160 Speaker 1: Rocky Mountain elks, which were the ones that were, you know, 1118 01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:29,920 Speaker 1: relocated in in the Ozarks in the Buffalo River Valley, 1119 01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:33,599 Speaker 1: in the current River Valley a few years ago. I'm 1120 01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:37,439 Speaker 1: looking for a I'm looking for a quote here that 1121 01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:43,479 Speaker 1: I saw the other day. So so we've we've we've 1122 01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:46,280 Speaker 1: talked about bear hunting, and I want to keep we 1123 01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:50,440 Speaker 1: can keep talking about that, but this is particularly fascinating 1124 01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:55,920 Speaker 1: to me, talking about kind of Ozark culture. Um, who 1125 01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:59,920 Speaker 1: was it, uh, Randolph? Now, this was in the nineteen hundreds, 1126 01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:04,040 Speaker 1: let's see, I think it was a guy named Randolph Vance, 1127 01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:10,080 Speaker 1: Randolph Vance, Randolph. He he wrote that the Ozarks were 1128 01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:15,920 Speaker 1: the most backward and deliberately unprogressive region of the United States. 1129 01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:20,160 Speaker 1: And he went on to say the resistance of these 1130 01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:24,920 Speaker 1: hills to the penetration of the outside world. Uh well 1131 01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:28,320 Speaker 1: that's where the quote ends. Um, he died in the world. 1132 01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:32,600 Speaker 1: Ozarkers are proudly primitive, their isolation as a religion, and 1133 01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:39,800 Speaker 1: their clannishness of virtue. Yeah, good old Randolph. Uh yeah, 1134 01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:42,679 Speaker 1: uh yeah, I've had I've had several rounds with Randolph. 1135 01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:45,519 Speaker 1: Of course, he's he's been going now for about forty years, 1136 01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:52,200 Speaker 1: so i've uh he h. Randolph was a he was 1137 01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:55,839 Speaker 1: a folklorist and a professional writer. He actually he actually 1138 01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:59,360 Speaker 1: made his living as a as a writer, oftentimes as 1139 01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:03,120 Speaker 1: a hack ry here, you know, using various made up 1140 01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:07,599 Speaker 1: names and stuff. But rand Randolph was another romantic who 1141 01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:10,439 Speaker 1: was actually from Kansas and had been attracted to the 1142 01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:15,400 Speaker 1: Ozarks because he he loved people who lived on the 1143 01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:18,880 Speaker 1: margins of society. And he could still find those people 1144 01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:21,320 Speaker 1: in the Ozarks in the nineteen twenties when he when 1145 01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:24,439 Speaker 1: he first moved here and into the nineteen thirties. And 1146 01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:27,880 Speaker 1: what Randolph did was obviously he and he would have 1147 01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:32,439 Speaker 1: told you the same thing that he wasn't interested in 1148 01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:36,120 Speaker 1: the progressive people of the Ozarks. He knew they were there. 1149 01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:38,479 Speaker 1: I mean he lived in Fantabulle for years, so I 1150 01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:41,800 Speaker 1: mean he he knew there were people in the Ozarks 1151 01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:44,600 Speaker 1: who lived just like people everywhere else in America. What 1152 01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:48,520 Speaker 1: he was interested in were the ridge runners and the Hillbillies, 1153 01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:52,800 Speaker 1: and as he said, the deliberately unprogressive people of the backwoods. 1154 01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:57,840 Speaker 1: That's what drew him. Guy, that's what and that and 1155 01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:01,200 Speaker 1: and so that's that's the people he chose to write about. 1156 01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:04,120 Speaker 1: For him, it was very important because they were the 1157 01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:13,080 Speaker 1: bearers of traditions and folk songs and stories that had, 1158 01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:18,160 Speaker 1: for the most part disappeared in your standard American society. 1159 01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:21,320 Speaker 1: But in these you know, the farther back in the 1160 01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:23,400 Speaker 1: backwoods you could get, the more likely you were to 1161 01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:27,400 Speaker 1: find this kind of anachronistic stuff that didn't exist anywhere 1162 01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:31,320 Speaker 1: in in modern America. And so those were his people, 1163 01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:36,680 Speaker 1: and and certainly they existed. Now to what percentage they 1164 01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:38,920 Speaker 1: made up in the Ozarks, you know, you could you 1165 01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:42,120 Speaker 1: could debate that, but uh, but those are the people 1166 01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:47,439 Speaker 1: that he was. That they're they're still I still feel 1167 01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:49,840 Speaker 1: like there are people like that, you know, I mean, 1168 01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:52,799 Speaker 1: like it's funny as we progressed through time. I remember 1169 01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:54,479 Speaker 1: when I was a kid. I think part of my 1170 01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:58,400 Speaker 1: love for the region that I live in is my dad. 1171 01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:01,680 Speaker 1: When I was a little kid, really he liked, like 1172 01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:04,799 Speaker 1: really like he was. My dad was a banker. Okay, 1173 01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,080 Speaker 1: my dad was like a suit and tie wearing banker, 1174 01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:10,479 Speaker 1: and on the weekends he was a bow hunter and 1175 01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:13,280 Speaker 1: an off road jeeper and a real rural guy. But like, 1176 01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:16,840 Speaker 1: but but he would take me to meet these people 1177 01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:20,280 Speaker 1: that were his customers weight you know, down in mean Arkansas, 1178 01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:23,280 Speaker 1: and these backwoods guys and take me to go show 1179 01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:26,280 Speaker 1: me the bucks that they had killed. And so he 1180 01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:30,400 Speaker 1: romanticized those guys to me. So at that time, it 1181 01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:33,320 Speaker 1: was like, man, these are the last of the old timers. Well, 1182 01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:37,640 Speaker 1: I'm forty years old, and I feel like I'm in 1183 01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:40,960 Speaker 1: the same place like I. I interviewed an old guy 1184 01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:44,679 Speaker 1: in the northern Franklin County named are Lei Province. Were 1185 01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:49,360 Speaker 1: interviewed him last spring, and uh, he was born in 1186 01:12:49,400 --> 01:12:52,880 Speaker 1: the hollow that he lives in, never worked in town, 1187 01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:56,559 Speaker 1: quote unquote, lived as a logger and grew tomatoes and 1188 01:12:57,760 --> 01:13:01,719 Speaker 1: sold honey, and and uh he died a month after 1189 01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:04,479 Speaker 1: I did the podcast with him. I sent you that. 1190 01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:09,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if it was the clip anyway. To me, 1191 01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:12,439 Speaker 1: he was exactly that guy. I mean, like just a 1192 01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:15,480 Speaker 1: pristine man. I mean, really a man, a lot of integrity. 1193 01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:18,880 Speaker 1: But he he you know, he knew his grandmother was 1194 01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:20,840 Speaker 1: born in the eighteen hundreds and he was raised by 1195 01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:23,679 Speaker 1: his grandmother. It was like it was really it felt 1196 01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:27,640 Speaker 1: like you were touching something really old, you know. In 1197 01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:30,760 Speaker 1: any way, so it's interesting that this guy back in 1198 01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:33,639 Speaker 1: those days with felt the same way. And even more so. 1199 01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:37,080 Speaker 1: And here here's the interesting thing about that, And I 1200 01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:41,240 Speaker 1: think you're exactly right. I think I think every generation 1201 01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:46,800 Speaker 1: has it's these are the last moment, and you can 1202 01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:49,960 Speaker 1: go back at least into the eighteen hundreds, just in 1203 01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,320 Speaker 1: the United States. I do u S history, so that's 1204 01:13:52,479 --> 01:13:56,879 Speaker 1: that's what I read. But but I've come across ridings 1205 01:13:56,920 --> 01:14:00,600 Speaker 1: from old timers, say in the eighteen eighties and Ozarks, 1206 01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:03,880 Speaker 1: who say, boy, these young people just don't know what 1207 01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:07,559 Speaker 1: it used to be like. And then a generation later, 1208 01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:11,240 Speaker 1: you know, it's a new set of old timers saying, boy, 1209 01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:16,040 Speaker 1: these young people don't remember. So so there's there's this 1210 01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:21,519 Speaker 1: there's a kind of ever replenishing crop of the last 1211 01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:25,120 Speaker 1: of their kind, which is a great thing. We what 1212 01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:29,880 Speaker 1: it is is for every generation has its own these 1213 01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:34,120 Speaker 1: are the last. And for me, I'm fifty, I turned 1214 01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:38,479 Speaker 1: fifty last year, and for me, most of those these 1215 01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:41,360 Speaker 1: are the last people are going now and and I'll 1216 01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:45,920 Speaker 1: never I'll never find anyone in my lifetime who matches 1217 01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:48,080 Speaker 1: that again, because it was a certain generation. It was 1218 01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:51,160 Speaker 1: like kind of that depression era, World War two, My 1219 01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:54,639 Speaker 1: grandparents generation. For me, is who that that was. They 1220 01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:57,280 Speaker 1: were the old timers when I was a kid and 1221 01:14:57,320 --> 01:15:01,000 Speaker 1: they're they're the last of of the breed. But for 1222 01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:05,640 Speaker 1: my kids, you know, it's it's like people you know, 1223 01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:08,800 Speaker 1: my parents age or maybe a little bit older for 1224 01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:11,040 Speaker 1: their for their kids, it's gonna be somebody else. And 1225 01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:14,080 Speaker 1: so if you live long enough, you'll get to be 1226 01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:16,880 Speaker 1: one of them. Somebody's gonna see you as one of 1227 01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:20,640 Speaker 1: the last of the breed. And and and and I 1228 01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:24,920 Speaker 1: think that's that's a great thing in in rural America, 1229 01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:27,519 Speaker 1: that you that you still have these people who are 1230 01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:33,479 Speaker 1: either either it's deliberate in some cases or it's like 1231 01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:38,720 Speaker 1: old Oory that's just how I've always lived, and and 1232 01:15:37,479 --> 01:15:41,360 Speaker 1: that's how I'm gonna That's how I'm gonna be. But 1233 01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:44,479 Speaker 1: they're always gonna be those people who are out of 1234 01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:51,599 Speaker 1: step with modern suburban or metropolitan culture for for whatever reason. 1235 01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:55,000 Speaker 1: When there gets to be the point where there aren't 1236 01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:58,360 Speaker 1: those people, then you know, I don't really know what 1237 01:15:58,360 --> 01:16:01,360 Speaker 1: what kind of you know, world where living, but it 1238 01:16:01,439 --> 01:16:03,840 Speaker 1: seems like those were at a unique period in time 1239 01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:08,160 Speaker 1: and history when like like Or's generation, you know, he 1240 01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:09,759 Speaker 1: grew up he I think he was born in nineteen 1241 01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:13,200 Speaker 1: seven and he died last year. He was ninety one, 1242 01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:18,240 Speaker 1: there's gonna come a time when nobody on the earth 1243 01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:22,640 Speaker 1: was alive when there wasn't electricity, you know what, Like 1244 01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:25,680 Speaker 1: he was raised with electricity, he I mean, he was 1245 01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:29,880 Speaker 1: raised very similar in technology to what someone in the 1246 01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:32,400 Speaker 1: early eighteen hundreds would have been born, other than they 1247 01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:35,519 Speaker 1: had vehicles and stuff. But you know, his dad, uh 1248 01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:39,479 Speaker 1: hauled lumber out of the mountains using mules, you know, 1249 01:16:39,520 --> 01:16:43,760 Speaker 1: I mean a very aside from telephone, and you know, 1250 01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:47,160 Speaker 1: they did have vehicles. But so there's gonna come a 1251 01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:51,160 Speaker 1: time point when that kind of it seems like the 1252 01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:53,360 Speaker 1: gap is. I'm trying to find that that would be 1253 01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:57,600 Speaker 1: smaller or bigger. Um. I mean, like we're we're a 1254 01:16:57,640 --> 01:17:01,760 Speaker 1: generation that knew people like that. Yeah, what I'm saying, right, 1255 01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:07,639 Speaker 1: And and definitely electricity and running water and indoor plummet 1256 01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:12,880 Speaker 1: those are those are major major touchstones in you know, 1257 01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:16,880 Speaker 1: modern development that do separate sort of a different age 1258 01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:19,760 Speaker 1: from the modern age. Just as you know, if you 1259 01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:23,479 Speaker 1: read Turnbow his stories that he's collecting in the eighteen 1260 01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:26,920 Speaker 1: nineties and early nineteen hundreds, he's sort of lamenting the 1261 01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:30,280 Speaker 1: fact that a lot of these bear hunts he's talking about, 1262 01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:34,040 Speaker 1: there's nobody left around who remembers him, and he was 1263 01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:38,599 Speaker 1: in an age when all of a sudden the real 1264 01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:41,200 Speaker 1: bear hunters were gone. There's not even more of those, 1265 01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:44,840 Speaker 1: And there are so many of these touchstones through history. Uh, 1266 01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:47,479 Speaker 1: you know, the the last you know, we're already passed 1267 01:17:47,479 --> 01:17:49,760 Speaker 1: the point where the last of the people who were 1268 01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:54,720 Speaker 1: born and raised in a world uh without automobiles, you know, 1269 01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:58,960 Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're already gone now. And I mean 1270 01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:04,679 Speaker 1: it's hard for me to imaging uh eighty years or well, 1271 01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:06,960 Speaker 1: it'd be not quite that many years from now, but 1272 01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:11,439 Speaker 1: whenever it is where where somebody is an old timer 1273 01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:14,160 Speaker 1: because they're the last of the people who grew up 1274 01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:16,439 Speaker 1: before the smartphone, you know that that sort of thing. 1275 01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:21,080 Speaker 1: But but it's it's it's you and I'll fit into that, right, yeah, 1276 01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:26,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I you know, I credit you know, I 1277 01:18:26,120 --> 01:18:28,759 Speaker 1: I still I tell my students I learned to type 1278 01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:31,040 Speaker 1: on a on a manual typewriter, you know, one of 1279 01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:34,120 Speaker 1: those old timey things you're typing in you slide it across, 1280 01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:36,720 Speaker 1: no plug in anywhere. And I had to have been 1281 01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:40,280 Speaker 1: one of the last people on you know, in the 1282 01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:43,519 Speaker 1: United States to do that. In in the nineteen eighties, 1283 01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:46,839 Speaker 1: you would have say, I grew up with a keyboard 1284 01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:48,960 Speaker 1: like that. I'm ten years younger than you. Yeah, I 1285 01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:51,840 Speaker 1: I never had a computer until I had a pH d. 1286 01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:55,240 Speaker 1: Before I ever had a computer. And uh but a 1287 01:18:55,240 --> 01:18:57,600 Speaker 1: lot of that's just because you know, I grew up 1288 01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:01,000 Speaker 1: in a really rural place and and uh of it 1289 01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:03,920 Speaker 1: didn't have any money throughout my team and throughout my twenties, 1290 01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:08,120 Speaker 1: so you know, but uh so you know, they're they're 1291 01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:13,400 Speaker 1: all those kind of watershed moments that you fall on 1292 01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:16,599 Speaker 1: one side or another. For me, it's the Internet. When 1293 01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:19,240 Speaker 1: I was like a senior in high school, they brought 1294 01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:21,960 Speaker 1: us into a computer lab and we're like, you guys 1295 01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:24,160 Speaker 1: are gonna get email addresses and it was like what 1296 01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:28,639 Speaker 1: my teacher talking to us about the World Wide Web 1297 01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:32,799 Speaker 1: w w W, and it was just like this science fiction. 1298 01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:35,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah I remember that. Yeah, that was that was 1299 01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:39,600 Speaker 1: the That was a strange thing, the Internet, And uh 1300 01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:43,559 Speaker 1: yeah it's and but but you know, you as you 1301 01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:47,840 Speaker 1: as you get older, you realize, uh that there and 1302 01:19:47,960 --> 01:19:52,000 Speaker 1: sometimes at some point, you know, technology is gonna outrun 1303 01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:54,840 Speaker 1: you and you're just gonna you know, my dad used 1304 01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:57,680 Speaker 1: to say that, you know, for for my grandparents it 1305 01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:01,880 Speaker 1: was TV. You know, they never really uh figure that 1306 01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:06,000 Speaker 1: out completely for my dad's computers. For me, I mean, 1307 01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:11,720 Speaker 1: I'm you know, the the smartphone, I'm pretty much illiterate 1308 01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:13,679 Speaker 1: when it comes you know, I go to my kids 1309 01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:15,679 Speaker 1: and and ask them stuff on a on a smart 1310 01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:20,479 Speaker 1: I've almost outlived my relevance and at this point, you know, 1311 01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:25,640 Speaker 1: I'm too old, but uh but yeah, that's it's and 1312 01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:28,720 Speaker 1: and these are these are things that that sparked those 1313 01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:32,880 Speaker 1: you know, that kind of spirit of nostalgia and you know, 1314 01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:36,120 Speaker 1: for for a lost world, what's the value in that? 1315 01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:38,639 Speaker 1: I mean it kind of is a sort of bringing 1316 01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:42,880 Speaker 1: this down to a landing. Like I don't know why 1317 01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:47,080 Speaker 1: I'm interested in all this stuff, but I super I 1318 01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:51,160 Speaker 1: very much so I am, and I want my kids 1319 01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:54,320 Speaker 1: to see it. Like so there's no question to me 1320 01:20:54,479 --> 01:20:58,200 Speaker 1: of what value there is. And like living in a 1321 01:20:58,280 --> 01:21:02,040 Speaker 1: place and understanding what happened before not to try to 1322 01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:03,720 Speaker 1: go back to that, Like I don't want to go 1323 01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:05,960 Speaker 1: back to that. I'm glad we live where we do now. 1324 01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:12,440 Speaker 1: But at the same time, and I'm not a recreationist. 1325 01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:14,439 Speaker 1: I mean, like I don't go around like trying to 1326 01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:17,840 Speaker 1: recreate something like some people do that, like you know, 1327 01:21:17,880 --> 01:21:20,280 Speaker 1: the Civil War recreation, and there's nothing wrong with that. 1328 01:21:20,360 --> 01:21:22,840 Speaker 1: You know, are guys that wear buckskin when they hunt 1329 01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:25,080 Speaker 1: and try to be like the old mountain men. I 1330 01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:31,639 Speaker 1: don't do that, but I'm deeply interested in in hunting 1331 01:21:31,720 --> 01:21:34,040 Speaker 1: and bear hunting and the history of the region that 1332 01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:37,440 Speaker 1: I'm in, almost from just a sense of cultural awareness. 1333 01:21:38,280 --> 01:21:40,760 Speaker 1: I think it. I think it connects us to our humanity. 1334 01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:44,080 Speaker 1: I think I think the technology of the world and 1335 01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:46,120 Speaker 1: the fast paced world we live in, it's something that 1336 01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:48,519 Speaker 1: humans have never done before. I mean, it's a it's 1337 01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:52,320 Speaker 1: a human experiment, and I think to be connected back 1338 01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:56,920 Speaker 1: to this raw thing that all these other humans did 1339 01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:01,000 Speaker 1: somehow makes us more human. What's what's the value? And 1340 01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:04,400 Speaker 1: and you you've devoted your life to history, What's what's 1341 01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:09,080 Speaker 1: the value in it? Yeah? That's you know, that's the question. 1342 01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:12,719 Speaker 1: I mean for for a historian, it's almost it's almost 1343 01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:16,559 Speaker 1: asking what is it that makes you a historian? What 1344 01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:19,800 Speaker 1: what is it that makes you value history? And and 1345 01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:23,280 Speaker 1: I can't tell you exactly what that is. You know, 1346 01:22:23,320 --> 01:22:26,519 Speaker 1: when when the same when people to different people can 1347 01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:29,320 Speaker 1: grow up in the same house and one is intensely 1348 01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:33,360 Speaker 1: interested in the past, and and and what it means 1349 01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:35,040 Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. The other one, you know, 1350 01:22:35,160 --> 01:22:38,400 Speaker 1: my careless and and uh and and I so I 1351 01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:41,920 Speaker 1: don't you know, I don't know that's some sort of uh, 1352 01:22:42,080 --> 01:22:45,880 Speaker 1: psychological tick or some some sort of illness that they're 1353 01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:48,360 Speaker 1: gonna discover one of these days that that makes some 1354 01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:54,000 Speaker 1: of us look backward. I think, uh, going back to that, 1355 01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:57,600 Speaker 1: that idea of primitivism, I think I think there is 1356 01:22:57,680 --> 01:23:01,360 Speaker 1: a deep spirit of that that runs, as I said, 1357 01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:07,120 Speaker 1: that runs throughout you know, civilized societies. And oh and 1358 01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:10,439 Speaker 1: a lot of people tap into it at different points 1359 01:23:10,439 --> 01:23:14,280 Speaker 1: of the source at some point, and some of us 1360 01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:19,760 Speaker 1: just immerse ourselves in that because we're you know, we're 1361 01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:24,919 Speaker 1: we so want to make contact with the origins. And 1362 01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:27,759 Speaker 1: and I think and and that in and of itself, 1363 01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:30,479 Speaker 1: I don't think it is even necessarily a sign of 1364 01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:34,040 Speaker 1: civilized humanity. That's just kind of humanity, uh, you know, 1365 01:23:34,240 --> 01:23:39,439 Speaker 1: wanting to wanting to make contact with the creator or 1366 01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:42,000 Speaker 1: or the origins of whatever it is, whatever it is 1367 01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:46,000 Speaker 1: that that makes us human. Uh. And for a lot 1368 01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:51,280 Speaker 1: of people, that becomes you know, getting back in uh 1369 01:23:51,320 --> 01:23:56,880 Speaker 1: into nature, It becomes hunting, It becomes doing these most 1370 01:23:56,960 --> 01:24:01,320 Speaker 1: basic of human things that were once done for survival 1371 01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:05,880 Speaker 1: but are now done you know, with a conscious knowledge 1372 01:24:05,960 --> 01:24:08,680 Speaker 1: of you know it to some degree. You know, we're 1373 01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:13,880 Speaker 1: paying tribute, I guess to to unknown ancestors by doing 1374 01:24:13,920 --> 01:24:17,759 Speaker 1: this stuff. But I you know, I uh, I've always 1375 01:24:17,800 --> 01:24:23,160 Speaker 1: been intrigued by that, by that spirit of primitivism, whatever 1376 01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:27,320 Speaker 1: it causes it and what whatever form it takes, because 1377 01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:30,519 Speaker 1: it is such a it is such a powerful thing 1378 01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:34,000 Speaker 1: in in American society and I think probably in any 1379 01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:38,040 Speaker 1: civilized society. Yeah. You know, there's the lyrics to a 1380 01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:41,920 Speaker 1: song that I don't even know what song it is, 1381 01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:44,439 Speaker 1: but there's a there's the lyrics to the song that says, 1382 01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:47,960 Speaker 1: I wish I was a slave to an age old trade. 1383 01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:52,639 Speaker 1: Have you ever heard that? It's like a and uh, 1384 01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:54,840 Speaker 1: that's the lyrics he says, I wish I was a 1385 01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:56,960 Speaker 1: slave to an age old trade. And it's a it's 1386 01:24:56,960 --> 01:24:59,639 Speaker 1: like happy songs. That's like not like a negative thing, 1387 01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:03,960 Speaker 1: but it's like this guy in modern times looking back 1388 01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:06,320 Speaker 1: and and he knows. You get the sense that he 1389 01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:09,240 Speaker 1: knows that what he's wanting to go back to would 1390 01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:13,040 Speaker 1: be way worse than where he's at now. But it 1391 01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:15,040 Speaker 1: was kind of a powerful lyric, you know. And then 1392 01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:17,880 Speaker 1: I think about like these old bear hunters and these 1393 01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:20,320 Speaker 1: guys that lived in the mounds, Holy smokes, they would 1394 01:25:20,320 --> 01:25:22,800 Speaker 1: have had to have been I mean, they went through 1395 01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:26,160 Speaker 1: some crazy, tough stuff that was not fun. That what 1396 01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:28,960 Speaker 1: that that was difficult and and and I like the 1397 01:25:28,960 --> 01:25:34,000 Speaker 1: way that you know, we romanticize it big time, you know, 1398 01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:37,840 Speaker 1: the glory of those I know, I do, uh, you know, 1399 01:25:37,880 --> 01:25:39,920 Speaker 1: you kind of cherry picked the good stuff and I 1400 01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:41,720 Speaker 1: like to talk about some of the bad stuff too, 1401 01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:45,160 Speaker 1: just to bring it, bring it home. But but we 1402 01:25:45,240 --> 01:25:47,160 Speaker 1: live in an interesting time where we have access to 1403 01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:50,759 Speaker 1: all this knowledge. We have access to not only historical 1404 01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:52,880 Speaker 1: knowledge of all these people that have lived in this 1405 01:25:52,920 --> 01:25:58,240 Speaker 1: place before us, but we have access to biological knowledge 1406 01:25:58,240 --> 01:26:00,720 Speaker 1: and scientific knowledge. And I don't know, I don't think 1407 01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:04,479 Speaker 1: humans have ever had as much information as we have, 1408 01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:07,400 Speaker 1: or for sure they haven't, right, Yeah, And so it's 1409 01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:10,680 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just kind of a well and 1410 01:26:10,680 --> 01:26:14,000 Speaker 1: and that probably contributes to it as well. It's you know, 1411 01:26:14,160 --> 01:26:19,800 Speaker 1: you uh, a sort of information overload. I think what 1412 01:26:19,800 --> 01:26:26,160 Speaker 1: what Gersticker would have would have recognized was a feeling 1413 01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:31,400 Speaker 1: of being over civilized of kind of and he felt that, Yeah, 1414 01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:34,880 Speaker 1: and you know, taking taking a part of your humanity 1415 01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:41,479 Speaker 1: away by being hyper specialized or over educated or whatever 1416 01:26:41,479 --> 01:26:44,639 Speaker 1: that whatever that is, that that sort of and and 1417 01:26:44,640 --> 01:26:46,880 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of this too. You know, 1418 01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:49,400 Speaker 1: if you, if you couch it in terms of men, 1419 01:26:50,400 --> 01:26:55,519 Speaker 1: it's it's that idea of of uh, kind of taking 1420 01:26:55,640 --> 01:26:58,920 Speaker 1: part of your masculinity away. If you, if you, if 1421 01:26:58,960 --> 01:27:03,040 Speaker 1: you kind of succumb to my modern suburban society and 1422 01:27:03,080 --> 01:27:06,559 Speaker 1: you and you you know, you're driving a SUV two 1423 01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:11,799 Speaker 1: to work five days a week, and yeah, that and 1424 01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:14,760 Speaker 1: and you know, there's just so many things that that 1425 01:27:14,760 --> 01:27:18,680 Speaker 1: that takes you away from the hardships that you know, 1426 01:27:18,760 --> 01:27:23,280 Speaker 1: those frontier people faced that that I think, Yeah, I 1427 01:27:23,320 --> 01:27:26,160 Speaker 1: think you can get to the point where you romanticize that. 1428 01:27:26,240 --> 01:27:29,519 Speaker 1: And and I know I've I've many times I've been 1429 01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:34,000 Speaker 1: and I have a very low stress job. You know, 1430 01:27:34,040 --> 01:27:37,880 Speaker 1: college on a lot of those rankings of the best 1431 01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:41,439 Speaker 1: jobs to have, college professors are sometimes near the top. 1432 01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:43,080 Speaker 1: And we we don't make a whole lot of money, 1433 01:27:43,160 --> 01:27:45,439 Speaker 1: but there's not a lot of stress and and you 1434 01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:47,280 Speaker 1: get to set your own schedule and all that kind 1435 01:27:47,320 --> 01:27:50,400 Speaker 1: of stuff. But you know, I'll be in the I'll 1436 01:27:50,439 --> 01:27:54,080 Speaker 1: be pushed with a like a deadline or something for 1437 01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:56,040 Speaker 1: for something I'm writing, and I'll be driving down the 1438 01:27:56,120 --> 01:27:58,040 Speaker 1: highway and see something guy bush haulging on the side 1439 01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:00,240 Speaker 1: of the road and think, boy, I wish I could, 1440 01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:04,920 Speaker 1: you know, wouldn't that be nice? And that guy's out 1441 01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:09,679 Speaker 1: there cussing the dirt. I'm sure he is, or he's 1442 01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:13,519 Speaker 1: or he's a professor from somewhere else. Just yeah, you know, 1443 01:28:13,840 --> 01:28:17,639 Speaker 1: just you know, just as a relief, but uh, but yeah, 1444 01:28:17,640 --> 01:28:20,840 Speaker 1: I think and you know, there is that, you know, 1445 01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:23,559 Speaker 1: one of the best stories from our childhood, the grass 1446 01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:25,960 Speaker 1: is always greener and and part of that is just 1447 01:28:27,160 --> 01:28:31,120 Speaker 1: something always looks better until sometimes you get into that 1448 01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:33,960 Speaker 1: something and then all of a sudden you're more appreciative 1449 01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:36,640 Speaker 1: for for what you came from. So I think, you know, 1450 01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:40,000 Speaker 1: going back to your point of having the best of 1451 01:28:40,080 --> 01:28:44,480 Speaker 1: both worlds, if you can have that really nice balance 1452 01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:49,080 Speaker 1: where and I tried to. I still live on a farm, 1453 01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:52,840 Speaker 1: and I still have cows and and and get out 1454 01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:55,880 Speaker 1: and and that's part of those that right, that's part 1455 01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:59,240 Speaker 1: of the reason I do that. You know, every generation 1456 01:28:59,280 --> 01:29:03,120 Speaker 1: of my family has always done that, and and part 1457 01:29:03,120 --> 01:29:06,120 Speaker 1: of it's kind of just following in those footsteps. But 1458 01:29:06,160 --> 01:29:08,240 Speaker 1: a lot of it too, it's just for my own 1459 01:29:08,479 --> 01:29:12,080 Speaker 1: peace of mind. It it it's it's good for me 1460 01:29:12,280 --> 01:29:18,360 Speaker 1: to have that balance between you know, town and and country, 1461 01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:24,120 Speaker 1: between civilized and you know, just messing around on the 1462 01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:26,040 Speaker 1: you know, out in the out in the woods and 1463 01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:30,519 Speaker 1: stuff like that. Yeah, well, hey, all this stuff is 1464 01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:37,839 Speaker 1: super interesting. Um how could how could people find your books? 1465 01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:43,919 Speaker 1: I mean, just they're for selling Amazon, Dr Brooks Blevins 1466 01:29:44,120 --> 01:29:46,760 Speaker 1: just look up that and and uh, now with the 1467 01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:51,880 Speaker 1: title of this book be Arkansas slash Arkansas with a W, 1468 01:29:52,200 --> 01:29:54,479 Speaker 1: I just call it. I just call it Arkansas Arkansas. 1469 01:29:54,600 --> 01:29:57,880 Speaker 1: But but yeah, that's so the book is titled Arkansas Arkansas. 1470 01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:00,200 Speaker 1: That's what. Yeah, Arkansas Arkansas. But it does have a 1471 01:30:00,200 --> 01:30:04,000 Speaker 1: slash there in between the two arkansass uh. Of course 1472 01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:06,000 Speaker 1: the cover of that book is great too. I like 1473 01:30:06,080 --> 01:30:08,760 Speaker 1: that cover. Yeah, that's that's an old Uh. I think 1474 01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:11,360 Speaker 1: that came from like an old bumper sticker or something 1475 01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:17,200 Speaker 1: that ozark hillbilly bumper sticker that's got a ozark hillbilly 1476 01:30:17,240 --> 01:30:20,160 Speaker 1: guy with a big beard, just gotta floppy head on 1477 01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:23,599 Speaker 1: a hound dog and yeah, I like, like that's kind 1478 01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:27,679 Speaker 1: of the classic image. It is. We didn't even get into, 1479 01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:29,960 Speaker 1: which I wanted to. I don't know, Maybe we'll drive 1480 01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:33,840 Speaker 1: back up here one day. Is the is a the 1481 01:30:33,840 --> 01:30:38,000 Speaker 1: Ozark and the national Ozark kind of like the southern 1482 01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:41,280 Speaker 1: in inferiority complex that we have from a lot of 1483 01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:45,120 Speaker 1: the media. And when I read some of this stuff, 1484 01:30:45,120 --> 01:30:47,160 Speaker 1: and I'm pretty sure it was from this book. Yeah, 1485 01:30:47,200 --> 01:30:50,400 Speaker 1: there's a chapter on that in there. Yes, I've recognized 1486 01:30:50,439 --> 01:30:52,559 Speaker 1: stuff inside of me that all of a sudden I 1487 01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:56,520 Speaker 1: recognize where it came from. I mean, like like the 1488 01:30:56,520 --> 01:31:01,920 Speaker 1: Elmer Fudd cartoons of the fifties or sixties, authorities had 1489 01:31:01,960 --> 01:31:04,439 Speaker 1: they would have the Ozark right Yeah. There. You know 1490 01:31:04,520 --> 01:31:08,200 Speaker 1: there's the famous Bugs Bunny card where Bugs Bunny goes 1491 01:31:08,200 --> 01:31:11,360 Speaker 1: to the Ozarks and gets in the middle of a feud. Yeah, 1492 01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:15,519 Speaker 1: and it just makes us look like idiots that right, Well, yeah, 1493 01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:20,640 Speaker 1: it does, of course, it's I talked about in the book. Uh, 1494 01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:24,760 Speaker 1: there's they're probably if you, if you weigh weigh it 1495 01:31:24,760 --> 01:31:31,120 Speaker 1: out in the balance, the positive romantic side probably outweighs 1496 01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:35,719 Speaker 1: the negative side of the of the ozark hillbilly image 1497 01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:40,559 Speaker 1: or the Arkansas image. But being the humans that we are, 1498 01:31:41,080 --> 01:31:44,160 Speaker 1: we often dwell on the negative, you know, and we're 1499 01:31:44,360 --> 01:31:47,559 Speaker 1: much more likely to remember something bad that somebody does 1500 01:31:47,600 --> 01:31:50,479 Speaker 1: to us than something good, you know, than ten good 1501 01:31:50,479 --> 01:31:53,080 Speaker 1: things that they that they do for us. That's just 1502 01:31:53,240 --> 01:31:56,760 Speaker 1: how many of us are made. And uh, but that's 1503 01:31:56,920 --> 01:31:59,720 Speaker 1: one reason I wrote the book is when I got 1504 01:31:59,720 --> 01:32:03,880 Speaker 1: into the research, I realized that, you know, there's there's 1505 01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:07,240 Speaker 1: a lot of really positive stuff that's really been written 1506 01:32:07,240 --> 01:32:10,439 Speaker 1: about Arkansas and written about the Ozarks. We just we 1507 01:32:10,560 --> 01:32:14,040 Speaker 1: just often don't pay much attention to it because we 1508 01:32:13,680 --> 01:32:16,639 Speaker 1: were too stuck on all the bad stuff. They're saying 1509 01:32:16,640 --> 01:32:19,240 Speaker 1: about what would be some of the just real quickly, 1510 01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:22,519 Speaker 1: like what were some of the big media things that 1511 01:32:22,560 --> 01:32:27,000 Speaker 1: were exported that kind of gave Arkansas this negative backwards. 1512 01:32:27,000 --> 01:32:31,080 Speaker 1: Now today I'm like, hey, let's let's grab that identity 1513 01:32:31,120 --> 01:32:33,680 Speaker 1: and run with it. While the world's turning crazy and 1514 01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:37,720 Speaker 1: urban and we see all these negative, really negative things 1515 01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:41,080 Speaker 1: inside of urban society, you know, maybe that the image 1516 01:32:41,080 --> 01:32:45,200 Speaker 1: of a backwoods you know, modern hill billy is a 1517 01:32:45,240 --> 01:32:50,600 Speaker 1: good thing. Yeah, I mean, well I think I think, uh, 1518 01:32:50,640 --> 01:32:53,880 Speaker 1: I think people have already have already realized that and 1519 01:32:53,880 --> 01:32:58,719 Speaker 1: and that's why you have, uh, you have reality shows 1520 01:32:58,760 --> 01:33:03,280 Speaker 1: like Duck Dynasty and and I remember I I used 1521 01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:09,840 Speaker 1: to teach a course called uh uh Hillbillies and Rednecks. Uh, 1522 01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:14,600 Speaker 1: you went to college at the wrong time. But but 1523 01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:17,040 Speaker 1: what we would do is we would basically look at, 1524 01:33:17,240 --> 01:33:22,440 Speaker 1: you know, two hundred or so years of of stereotypes 1525 01:33:22,479 --> 01:33:25,720 Speaker 1: and kind of pop culture images of these groups. And 1526 01:33:25,880 --> 01:33:29,639 Speaker 1: a few years ago, uh, probably ten years ago, there 1527 01:33:29,680 --> 01:33:34,400 Speaker 1: was this great renaissance of of kind of red neck 1528 01:33:34,520 --> 01:33:37,080 Speaker 1: reality TV. I mean there was a whole at one 1529 01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:39,760 Speaker 1: time I had It was in the middle of one 1530 01:33:39,800 --> 01:33:42,280 Speaker 1: of these courses I was teaching within the last ten 1531 01:33:42,360 --> 01:33:45,599 Speaker 1: years that I had my students count up the number 1532 01:33:45,720 --> 01:33:48,200 Speaker 1: of what we called red neck reality TV show. I 1533 01:33:48,200 --> 01:33:51,200 Speaker 1: think there were twenty three. I mean, you know they're 1534 01:33:51,240 --> 01:33:56,320 Speaker 1: they're Moonshiners and and Alaskan, Yeah, the the and then 1535 01:33:56,520 --> 01:34:03,240 Speaker 1: the Fellers down in the down in the by the 1536 01:34:03,360 --> 01:34:06,760 Speaker 1: some people people. I mean, there's just all and and 1537 01:34:07,160 --> 01:34:09,599 Speaker 1: and I think all of that speaks to that that 1538 01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:14,480 Speaker 1: that idea that as America becomes more and more metropolitan, 1539 01:34:15,040 --> 01:34:18,240 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people like to live vicariously 1540 01:34:18,400 --> 01:34:22,120 Speaker 1: through those people who are still they may not want to. 1541 01:34:22,240 --> 01:34:24,320 Speaker 1: They may not want to move to the swamps or 1542 01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:28,360 Speaker 1: move to the ozarks or to you know, Louisiana or whatever. 1543 01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:32,840 Speaker 1: But there's a certain vicarious thrill seeing these people who 1544 01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:36,360 Speaker 1: are still somewhat authentic. I don't I'm not gonna call 1545 01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:40,439 Speaker 1: those reality TV shows authentic, but but you know, living 1546 01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:43,240 Speaker 1: out in the country and so so I think there's 1547 01:34:43,400 --> 01:34:47,080 Speaker 1: I think there's something to that. Uh. But to answer 1548 01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:52,320 Speaker 1: your question, UM, yeah, there there have been uh The 1549 01:34:52,360 --> 01:34:56,240 Speaker 1: Old Arkansas Traveler. There was a popular play in the 1550 01:34:56,280 --> 01:35:00,280 Speaker 1: late nineteenth century called The Arkansas Traveler. Uh. That was 1551 01:35:00,640 --> 01:35:03,920 Speaker 1: that had ah it was a musical, and it had 1552 01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:08,840 Speaker 1: a this this worldly cosmopolitan traveler would ride into the 1553 01:35:08,880 --> 01:35:12,040 Speaker 1: back country on horseback and encounters this squatter in front 1554 01:35:12,040 --> 01:35:14,040 Speaker 1: of a log cabin. And they have this back and 1555 01:35:14,080 --> 01:35:19,440 Speaker 1: forth and the squatters uneducated, the travelers, you know, very educated, 1556 01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:24,240 Speaker 1: and they end up uh befriending each other over a 1557 01:35:24,240 --> 01:35:29,559 Speaker 1: fiddle tune. And uh, depending on where that play is played, 1558 01:35:29,760 --> 01:35:31,479 Speaker 1: you know, if it's as if it's played in Buffalo, 1559 01:35:31,560 --> 01:35:36,840 Speaker 1: New York, it's it's probably making fun of the backwoods squatter. 1560 01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:40,920 Speaker 1: And for years it was there was a little place 1561 01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:45,880 Speaker 1: called the Arkansas Traveler Theater in Hardy, Arkansas, that that 1562 01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:48,640 Speaker 1: it was a dinner theater based around this play. And 1563 01:35:48,680 --> 01:35:50,599 Speaker 1: in that version of the play, it was the squatter 1564 01:35:50,640 --> 01:35:53,439 Speaker 1: who got the best of the story. You know, this 1565 01:35:53,560 --> 01:35:58,400 Speaker 1: who's kind of leading this this uh this lost Traveler. 1566 01:35:59,200 --> 01:36:02,200 Speaker 1: And but you know that on a Slow Train through 1567 01:36:02,320 --> 01:36:07,000 Speaker 1: Arkansas was a joke book of the early nineteen hundreds 1568 01:36:07,880 --> 01:36:12,240 Speaker 1: that was really more uh racist and nanty semitic than 1569 01:36:12,280 --> 01:36:17,560 Speaker 1: it was anti hill billy. But but Arkansas was already 1570 01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:24,200 Speaker 1: such a bankable name as just comedy, you know, already 1571 01:36:24,240 --> 01:36:28,000 Speaker 1: by a hundred years ago. When you said Arkansas, a 1572 01:36:28,040 --> 01:36:29,880 Speaker 1: lot of people around the rest of the country just 1573 01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:34,720 Speaker 1: automatically thought funny, you know, hill Reilly comedy. And so 1574 01:36:34,720 --> 01:36:37,280 Speaker 1: so it becomes you know, on a slow train through Arkansas, 1575 01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:39,519 Speaker 1: when the book has very you know, there are other 1576 01:36:39,560 --> 01:36:41,800 Speaker 1: places that are like that. I mean, we're from here, 1577 01:36:41,840 --> 01:36:45,519 Speaker 1: so like we get that, right, I mean, like the 1578 01:36:45,560 --> 01:36:49,200 Speaker 1: guys in Mississippi say the same thing, people in Oklahoma 1579 01:36:49,240 --> 01:36:52,880 Speaker 1: say the same thing. Yeah, well, I think in I 1580 01:36:52,920 --> 01:36:56,479 Speaker 1: think all of the Southern states, to some degree or another, 1581 01:36:56,680 --> 01:37:00,400 Speaker 1: can be the butt of a joke, even Kansas. You know, 1582 01:37:00,400 --> 01:37:03,759 Speaker 1: that's where cousin Eddie was from uh, you know and 1583 01:37:03,760 --> 01:37:11,920 Speaker 1: and uh but you know, West Virginia. It's uh. Well. 1584 01:37:12,640 --> 01:37:14,960 Speaker 1: Part of my argument in that book was that that 1585 01:37:15,120 --> 01:37:19,920 Speaker 1: for some reason, Arkansas, what if it wasn't the most 1586 01:37:20,000 --> 01:37:23,000 Speaker 1: made fun of state, it was certainly in the top 1587 01:37:23,160 --> 01:37:26,560 Speaker 1: two or three, and it wasn't the most hillbilly the 1588 01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:29,240 Speaker 1: state most affiliated with kind of a hillbilly image. It 1589 01:37:29,280 --> 01:37:30,400 Speaker 1: was in the top two or three. And one of 1590 01:37:30,439 --> 01:37:34,880 Speaker 1: the things I did, this is very unscientific whole I'm 1591 01:37:34,880 --> 01:37:38,920 Speaker 1: not a scientist, but I remember uh doing these Google 1592 01:37:39,000 --> 01:37:42,560 Speaker 1: searches for you know, I would type in a variety 1593 01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:49,439 Speaker 1: of phrases, uh, you know, hillbilly, uh, Arkansas, hillbilly, Kentucky. 1594 01:37:49,640 --> 01:37:53,519 Speaker 1: And I tested pretty much all the states of the 1595 01:37:53,560 --> 01:37:57,719 Speaker 1: South and the Midwest to try to gauge how often 1596 01:37:57,840 --> 01:38:02,720 Speaker 1: they're associated with the word hillbilly than that uh and 1597 01:38:02,720 --> 01:38:06,360 Speaker 1: and Arkansas. Not surprisingly, Arkansas was not got more hits 1598 01:38:06,400 --> 01:38:10,720 Speaker 1: than any even than West Virginia. Arkansas was, by my 1599 01:38:10,920 --> 01:38:14,760 Speaker 1: very unscientific poll and doing various you know, versions of 1600 01:38:14,760 --> 01:38:19,680 Speaker 1: this kind of the searches, Arkansas was the hillbilliest of 1601 01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:22,320 Speaker 1: states as far as the Internet is concerned. And we 1602 01:38:22,439 --> 01:38:26,000 Speaker 1: know that the internet is all knowing, so so that 1603 01:38:26,160 --> 01:38:28,920 Speaker 1: seemed proof enough to be some odd reason. I'm really 1604 01:38:28,920 --> 01:38:33,760 Speaker 1: proud right now. I don't know. I think I was too. Well. 1605 01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:36,479 Speaker 1: I was relieved because I had already written that book 1606 01:38:37,240 --> 01:38:40,320 Speaker 1: and I and and it would have crushed my soul 1607 01:38:40,520 --> 01:38:43,040 Speaker 1: to have written a book on Arkansas's hillbilly image. I 1608 01:38:43,080 --> 01:38:46,639 Speaker 1: only to discover that we were like number six in 1609 01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:51,400 Speaker 1: Indiana or something, so that was that was a relief. 1610 01:38:51,479 --> 01:38:54,960 Speaker 1: And and I didn't have to doctor my results. You know, 1611 01:38:55,240 --> 01:38:57,800 Speaker 1: it came out. It's somewhere in a footnote, and there's 1612 01:38:57,920 --> 01:39:03,880 Speaker 1: very you know, it's it's very official, it's very very scientific. Man. Yeah, 1613 01:39:03,960 --> 01:39:08,800 Speaker 1: your studies are are are super interesting and uh man, 1614 01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:11,040 Speaker 1: I can't thank enough for having us up here. I've 1615 01:39:11,120 --> 01:39:15,200 Speaker 1: enjoyed it. Yeah, I appreciate you coming. Yeah. Well, yeah, 1616 01:39:15,800 --> 01:39:18,240 Speaker 1: we'll stay in touch and and like the new book, 1617 01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:20,720 Speaker 1: the new when will the new books You're right and 1618 01:39:20,760 --> 01:39:25,400 Speaker 1: come out. The first two volumes are already out of 1619 01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:28,160 Speaker 1: the Trilogy of history. Uh they're called a History of 1620 01:39:28,200 --> 01:39:32,479 Speaker 1: the Ozarks and uh, you know, the first two volumes 1621 01:39:32,479 --> 01:39:35,160 Speaker 1: pre Civil War Civil War era out. I'm still writing 1622 01:39:35,160 --> 01:39:39,320 Speaker 1: the third volume and and should have it out in 1623 01:39:39,560 --> 01:39:44,000 Speaker 1: less than two years from now, not nearest much bear hunting. 1624 01:39:44,000 --> 01:39:46,800 Speaker 1: In that third volume, they're pretty much going until they're 1625 01:39:47,120 --> 01:39:50,960 Speaker 1: until until the late twentieth century. Yeah, yeah, you know, 1626 01:39:51,439 --> 01:39:54,760 Speaker 1: that's a great place to end the podcast because what's 1627 01:39:54,800 --> 01:39:57,519 Speaker 1: so cool about right now to be a bear hunter 1628 01:39:57,560 --> 01:40:03,240 Speaker 1: in Arkansas is that bear errors are increasing every place 1629 01:40:03,800 --> 01:40:07,439 Speaker 1: that they that they currently are. Bears have been sighted 1630 01:40:07,479 --> 01:40:10,120 Speaker 1: in every county in Arkansas. Bears are expanded in the 1631 01:40:10,200 --> 01:40:14,120 Speaker 1: southern Missouri, Oklahoma, Mississippi, northern Louisiana. I mean, like from 1632 01:40:14,400 --> 01:40:16,240 Speaker 1: I don't know if you would know this people on 1633 01:40:16,320 --> 01:40:19,439 Speaker 1: podcast hear me say this like constantly, but you know, 1634 01:40:19,520 --> 01:40:22,439 Speaker 1: the the reintroduction and success of the Arkansas black bear 1635 01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:27,599 Speaker 1: is the most successful reintroduction of large carnivores in the world. 1636 01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:32,920 Speaker 1: That's what I'll just say in reintroduction being a specific thing, 1637 01:40:33,080 --> 01:40:36,680 Speaker 1: meaning they took wild animals from another place and put 1638 01:40:36,720 --> 01:40:39,519 Speaker 1: them here for large carnivores. So I mean, like what 1639 01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:44,080 Speaker 1: we have is like from a conservation from a biological perspective, 1640 01:40:44,120 --> 01:40:48,599 Speaker 1: it's like amazing. And then and then for me as 1641 01:40:48,640 --> 01:40:51,840 Speaker 1: a bear hunter in Arkansas, like kind of my story 1642 01:40:51,920 --> 01:40:55,160 Speaker 1: is like when I started really getting interested in bear hunting. 1643 01:40:55,479 --> 01:40:59,640 Speaker 1: Like culturally, the bear world was kind of zero. It's 1644 01:40:59,640 --> 01:41:01,600 Speaker 1: almost we were we were these bear hunters, and we 1645 01:41:01,600 --> 01:41:04,000 Speaker 1: had this rich history that you're all talking about, and 1646 01:41:04,040 --> 01:41:06,280 Speaker 1: then when the bears died off, the hunting culture died. 1647 01:41:06,960 --> 01:41:08,960 Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, now it's like we 1648 01:41:09,080 --> 01:41:12,160 Speaker 1: got bears, and so this hunting culture is re is 1649 01:41:13,120 --> 01:41:16,479 Speaker 1: re emerging. And so that's why I kind of draw 1650 01:41:16,600 --> 01:41:19,360 Speaker 1: some you want to draw back to that old stuff 1651 01:41:19,400 --> 01:41:22,280 Speaker 1: and be like, you know, just learn from it. But well, 1652 01:41:22,280 --> 01:41:25,719 Speaker 1: that's that's good to hear. I I saw I saw 1653 01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:31,080 Speaker 1: my first wild bear in Arkansas last year, about about 1654 01:41:31,080 --> 01:41:32,680 Speaker 1: a mile and a half from my house. I was 1655 01:41:32,760 --> 01:41:36,600 Speaker 1: driving home one day and uh, and my wife and 1656 01:41:36,680 --> 01:41:38,519 Speaker 1: kids didn't believe me at all. They thought I was 1657 01:41:39,200 --> 01:41:41,960 Speaker 1: you know, he ran across the road in in in 1658 01:41:42,040 --> 01:41:45,960 Speaker 1: front of me. Uh so I so I know, you know, 1659 01:41:46,040 --> 01:41:51,960 Speaker 1: they're they're uh, they're fanning out in Israel County. Okay, Yeah, 1660 01:41:51,960 --> 01:41:56,200 Speaker 1: that's pretty far east. Yeah. Now they down along the river, 1661 01:41:56,280 --> 01:42:00,000 Speaker 1: done along White River. You know, they're they've got more 1662 01:42:00,000 --> 01:42:03,559 Speaker 1: were bears in the in the kind of remote hills 1663 01:42:03,600 --> 01:42:06,040 Speaker 1: and stuff. But in the part that we live in, 1664 01:42:06,360 --> 01:42:09,280 Speaker 1: it's not quite as hilly and rugged, and so that 1665 01:42:09,360 --> 01:42:12,040 Speaker 1: was that was an unusual side. But even when I 1666 01:42:12,080 --> 01:42:15,920 Speaker 1: was a kid, Uh, we had neighbors who who had 1667 01:42:15,960 --> 01:42:18,000 Speaker 1: a farm that they called the bear farm, and it 1668 01:42:18,040 --> 01:42:20,720 Speaker 1: was called the bear farm because they had spotted a 1669 01:42:21,320 --> 01:42:24,080 Speaker 1: bear on it. I guess around the time when I 1670 01:42:24,120 --> 01:42:26,360 Speaker 1: was a kid, you know, maybe in the seventies or 1671 01:42:26,840 --> 01:42:30,960 Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, so it was a big deal back then. Yeah, 1672 01:42:31,040 --> 01:42:34,840 Speaker 1: we never saw it, but that they did. We we 1673 01:42:34,880 --> 01:42:38,479 Speaker 1: didn't see it, but uh, but we believed them, unlike 1674 01:42:38,520 --> 01:42:41,960 Speaker 1: my family not not believing me. Maybe maybe they'll believe 1675 01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:46,680 Speaker 1: me after this. Yeah, great, well again, thank you, And 1676 01:42:46,840 --> 01:42:50,240 Speaker 1: uh always closed the podcast by saying, well, do you 1677 01:42:50,280 --> 01:42:53,040 Speaker 1: have any closing comments or thoughts? Anything you wanted to 1678 01:42:53,040 --> 01:42:55,840 Speaker 1: say you didn't get to say. No, I think I've 1679 01:42:55,840 --> 01:42:59,680 Speaker 1: said more than I should have said. Yeah, it was great. Uh. 1680 01:42:59,800 --> 01:43:02,280 Speaker 1: We we always close the podcast by saying, keep the 1681 01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:05,360 Speaker 1: wild places wild because that's where the bears live. Yep, 1682 01:43:06,360 --> 01:43:06,880 Speaker 1: sounds good.