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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and welcome to stuff.

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Speaker 2: I've never told you production if I hurried you, and yes,

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Speaker 2: I am by myself today.

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Speaker 1: Samantha's got some family stuff going on.

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Speaker 2: But I did want to bring back an episode we

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Speaker 2: did since we've been talking about our thoughts around aging

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Speaker 2: as we get older, the good and the bad and

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Speaker 2: what we thought was gonna happen and what actually happened.

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Speaker 2: So I thought I would bring back this episode we

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Speaker 2: did about the history of that with women around anti

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Speaker 2: aging and our thoughts around aging, especially in the West.

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Speaker 1: So please enjoy.

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Speaker 2: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff.

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Speaker 2: I'm never told your production of iHeartRadio. So I feel

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Speaker 2: like I have asked you this before, and if so,

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Speaker 2: you'll have to forgive me listeners. And Samantha, but what

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Speaker 2: are your thoughts on immortality?

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Speaker 3: I don't think you've asked me this before because that

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Speaker 3: is a very broad and general question.

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Speaker 1: Who knows a lot of conversations.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we have off and on Mike when it comes

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Speaker 3: to immortality.

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Speaker 1: M hmm.

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Speaker 3: I have no thoughts other than it's not real, So

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Speaker 3: why are we talking about it? My own self, my

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Speaker 3: own sad take on death and immortality is that I

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Speaker 3: assumed I would have been dead before. I would be

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Speaker 3: dead before fifty five. And I think it's just because

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Speaker 3: of all the things that I've gone through as a

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Speaker 3: kid that it didn't make sense, but I would extend

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Speaker 3: past a certain time. I do have a small fear

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Speaker 3: of growing old. Actually have a lot of fears in

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Speaker 3: growing older, and as my body feels like it's slowly

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Speaker 3: giving out is getting worse those little fears and trying

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Speaker 3: to figure out what to do just because I don't

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Speaker 3: want to go to like revert back to being dependent

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Speaker 3: on someone. And then of course you and I talked

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Speaker 3: about the fact that if we don't have children, who's

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Speaker 3: going to look after us, Who's going to care for us?

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Speaker 3: And what's going to happen if we can't care for ourselves.

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Speaker 3: So those are my thoughts on life and death and immortality.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to live forever because that sounds miserable,

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Speaker 3: especially with some of the things that have happened. Being

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Speaker 3: a depressive makes me sad to think that I would

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Speaker 3: have to be depressed with the rest of life life

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Speaker 3: seeing some of the bad things that have happened. I

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Speaker 3: am a pessimist, so it doesn't help.

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Speaker 1: True. True.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's interesting because I've always felt that way too.

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Speaker 2: Of like immortality, he doesn't appeal to me unless people

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Speaker 2: around me that I cared about were and also that

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Speaker 2: I was in good like mental and physical condition.

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Speaker 1: Even then, it just sounds like eventually you'd get pretty bored.

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Speaker 2: But I don't know. I mean, I was telling you

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Speaker 2: the other day, it's like the Star Wars is gonna

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Speaker 2: be coming out when I die.

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Speaker 1: They never stopped. That's true.

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Speaker 3: That the care for you also as of late, like

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Speaker 3: the more we talk about the apocalypse and thinking it

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Speaker 3: might happen sooner than later, Well, lord, I don't know

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Speaker 3: if I want to be alive through that.

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Speaker 2: That's yeah. Yeah, Now we're starting out really grim with

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Speaker 2: this one. Yeah, sure are sure are. We're certainly not

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Speaker 2: the only people who have been talking about this and

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Speaker 2: thinking about this and as our technology shifts, because this

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Speaker 2: has been a part of our cultural narrative forever, like

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Speaker 2: when we talk about any type of creature like vampires,

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Speaker 2: and that's always like one of the reasons I love

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Speaker 2: what we do in the Shadows is you get to

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Speaker 2: see how wonky they are and out of touch they

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Speaker 2: are with their immortality. But as as technology has advanced,

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Speaker 2: people are legitimately talking about ways to slow down or

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Speaker 2: stop aging and or achieve immortality. And I know Jeff

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Speaker 2: Bezos was just in the news for investing in something

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Speaker 2: looking into this, and there's been a lot of movies

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Speaker 2: about it for sure. For anybody who's already like preemptively

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Speaker 2: angry that of the language I used around.

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Speaker 1: That am at like stopping aging? Well, we'll get to that.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to that.

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Speaker 2: Does that get But as we are moving into you

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Speaker 2: listeners know we love some Halloween, we love the season

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Speaker 2: of fall and scary movies and spooky things, And as

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Speaker 2: we're moving into that, this is sort of a lower

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Speaker 2: key tie in because it's just this concept we've been

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Speaker 2: talking about for a couple of months now about dying

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Speaker 2: to be young and our cultural just real fascination and

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Speaker 2: occupation with being young and where did that come from

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Speaker 2: and some of the extremes that it has gone to.

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Speaker 2: So to start out with, we're going to be talking

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Speaker 2: about media because, as we've talked about before, in in

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Speaker 2: our popular media and movies and TV, as a woman,

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Speaker 2: it's a joke, it's a running joke that you're dead

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Speaker 2: after thirty, like, that's.

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Speaker 1: Your career is over.

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Speaker 2: And the average age of a Hollywood Stars female is

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Speaker 2: thirty four, whereas for a man it is forty six,

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Speaker 2: So you can already see that's ten.

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Speaker 3: Your gap some vast difference.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah so as in fact, and IMDb study reported

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Speaker 3: on by Washington Post found that among twenty year old actors,

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Speaker 3: women get eighty percent of the leading roles. By age thirty,

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Speaker 3: women only get forty percent of the leading roles, and

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Speaker 3: past age forty, men claim eighty percent of the leading

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Speaker 3: roles while women only get twenty percent, and have all

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Speaker 3: these roles for women to go to those thirty three

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Speaker 3: and younger and men overall just have way more roles

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Speaker 3: available to them, and we've seen that constantly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think I've told this story before, but I remember

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Speaker 2: so clearly watching I think I was too young to

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Speaker 2: be watching it that I was watching Entrapment and I

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Speaker 2: turned to my friend and I was like, why does

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Speaker 2: she want to be with Sean Connery? O?

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Speaker 3: Next question?

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Speaker 2: But that being said, I know that people can have

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Speaker 2: age caps and relationships and it'd be great, but as a child,

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Speaker 2: it just did not.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I don't understand this.

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Speaker 3: And I think what we're talking about here is not

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Speaker 3: just that fact, but that it is more acceptable to

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Speaker 3: see you very young women with older men, and people

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Speaker 3: are like ooh yeah, absolutely normal to the point that

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Speaker 3: it reflects real life. Leonardo DiCaprio and everybody kind of

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Speaker 3: accepts it. Yeah, there's a factor of like, uh, what

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Speaker 3: after a while, Yeah, but in the actuality, it's like, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 3: obviously one is more acceptable than a woman doing that, right,

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Speaker 3: because she is.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: And we've talked about that a lot before, about that

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Speaker 2: double standard of for men it's seen as like, oh,

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Speaker 2: props to you.

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Speaker 1: You've got a young lady interested.

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Speaker 2: In you, young lady, whereas for women, it's like she's

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Speaker 2: preying upon this young man and it must be for

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Speaker 2: nefarious reasons, right, Yeah, those are generalizations and stereotypes, but

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Speaker 2: it's definitely more acceptable for an older man to be

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Speaker 2: with a younger woman.

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Speaker 1: Than vice versa.

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Speaker 2: And so this whole, like all these ideas around women

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Speaker 2: in age in Hollywood, has been a topic of conversation,

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Speaker 2: especially among female celebrities.

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Speaker 1: Who's spoken out about this.

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Speaker 2: Maggie Smith, Charlie's Thereon, Sarah Tiska Parker, Helen Miira, and

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Speaker 2: Mal Street, Kate Blinchett, so many mostly white women in

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Speaker 2: this context, but a lot of it is happening.

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Speaker 1: Like now and within recent years.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty new in terms of how many women have

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Speaker 2: spoken up about it. And I did want to give

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Speaker 2: some brief like examples that were just top of mine

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Speaker 2: for me, because this is an idea that we see

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Speaker 2: so often, And one is from Black Swan, which I

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Speaker 2: watched recently, where Wanona Writer is this ballet dancer who's

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Speaker 2: been like head of the ballet. She's made a lot

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Speaker 2: of money for this troop, this huge New York troop,

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Speaker 2: but then all the other ballet dancers are kind of

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Speaker 2: talking about her behind her back and saying like, oh,

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Speaker 2: she's dead, like she's a dancing corpse.

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Speaker 1: Like she's so old.

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Speaker 2: And then Winona Writer's character obviously being upset about this

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Speaker 2: and furious that she's given so much of herself to

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Speaker 2: this company, and then they just kind of unceremoniously to

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Speaker 2: her away when she gets older and replace her with

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Speaker 2: Natalie Portman. And even in terms of like the romance

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Speaker 2: kind of dynamic between the male leader of the ballet

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Speaker 2: troupe and Anona writer, and then Natalie Portman. That always

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Speaker 2: stuck with me. And Natalie Portman's character has to see

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Speaker 2: where she's like, oh, poor Beth, like obviously feeling sympathy

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Speaker 2: and like seeing that happen with her mom when she

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Speaker 2: got pregnant, and feeling like I one day I will

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Speaker 2: be thrown away too. But yeah, that just always stuck

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Speaker 2: with me because it's like, like I said, it is.

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Speaker 1: A running joke. We all know this joke and this idea.

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Speaker 2: And there are certain aspects that I get, like it's

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Speaker 2: weird because I understand that, you know, younger people in

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Speaker 2: general can do more athletic things I don't know, but

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Speaker 2: still like, that's really terrible to just be like, well,

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Speaker 2: you're done and you'll never work again.

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Speaker 3: So another example I've never actually seen black Swana need

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Speaker 3: to go back to it. But another example would be,

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Speaker 3: of course, one of our episodes First Wives Club. I

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Speaker 3: mean that is the ultimate story of of being replaced

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Speaker 3: by younger women. As each one of the characters show,

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Speaker 3: whether it's Sarah Jessica Parker's character who is in competition

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Speaker 3: with Bette Midler, or even the therapist with Diane Keaton's character,

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Speaker 3: you know who's gets ran over her, and then you've

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Speaker 3: got the Goldie Hahn character, which she's replaced by the

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Speaker 3: sixteen year old actress because she I think she's in

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Speaker 3: her thirties.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in this I'm pretty sure she comments directly on

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Speaker 2: what we're talking about and.

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Speaker 3: Talking about being replaced and to the point that she

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Speaker 3: plays the hag mother who dies essentially an upcoming movie

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Speaker 3: and her thinking she's coming in for the younger character

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Speaker 3: and being like, whoop's just kidding, and so she retires

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Speaker 3: out of film to go on to Broadway because it's

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Speaker 3: more acceptable for mature women to be a part of Essentially, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: there are so many things in that storyline on it

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Speaker 3: all together, just talking about how women are set to

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Speaker 3: pasture at a certain age as if they are no

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Speaker 3: longer of any purpose. And we think about that with

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Speaker 3: like menopause again, like whether or not we're able to

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Speaker 3: breed essentially, to put it very bluntly, and or what

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Speaker 3: our value is. And when it comes to Hollywood, I'm

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Speaker 3: sure and we have seen it being even harsher narratives.

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Speaker 3: But you know, in everyday life people talk about that too,

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Speaker 3: whether it's the cliche of being left for a younger

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Speaker 3: women and or having to compete with younger women for

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Speaker 3: career or any of those statuses. You know, it's interesting

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Speaker 3: to see. But this movie was definitely one of those like, hey,

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Speaker 3: in your face, this is what's happening, right comment.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, and we're gon we're gonna break in, breakdown

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Speaker 2: some of that a bit more later about kind of

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Speaker 2: this pressure to be invisible as you get older as

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Speaker 2: a woman. And then I was thinking about this Amazon

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Speaker 2: movie called Neon Demon, which I don't know if you've

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Speaker 2: seen that.

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Speaker 3: I have not.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, it was a very strange film, but it

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Speaker 2: kind of That's why every time I think of it,

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's some fever dream that I had.

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Speaker 2: But it's about like models in Hollywood, And is it

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Speaker 2: el Fanning or Ellie Fanning?

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Speaker 1: El Fanning, I don't know, you know who I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: She comes into this young model into this world and

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of this movie's very up and down

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Speaker 2: and bumpy, but there was interesting commentary on like the

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Speaker 2: power of beauty and youth for women. And she says

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Speaker 2: something about like you know what the power she feels

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Speaker 2: when she walks into her room and everyone is looking

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Speaker 2: at her and feeling jealous of her. Of course, these

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Speaker 2: other models that have been in the game longer than

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Speaker 2: her don't like that, so they end up spoilers, I

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Speaker 2: guess how old is This movie's pretty old. They end

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Speaker 2: up killing her and eating pieces of her body to

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Speaker 2: try to get her youth, including an eyeball.

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Speaker 1: It was real gruesome.

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Speaker 2: Well okay then, but yeah, that was just I did

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Speaker 2: not expect that turn, for one, But yeah, it was

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Speaker 2: another kind of example of this this pressure to feel

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Speaker 2: young and kind of that diminishing value of like they

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Speaker 2: were willing to murder this person to feel like they

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Speaker 2: were young and had in their minds more power. And

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Speaker 2: then on top of that, songs. We've been right singing

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Speaker 2: these songs.

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Speaker 3: And I will say so for the first song you

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Speaker 3: picked out, because as you were and I were talking

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Speaker 3: about this episode, I told you in my head, I

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Speaker 3: can't stop singing forever young. Yeah. Also, that might makes

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Speaker 3: me go back to a thirty Rock episode in which

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Speaker 3: Jenna is being She has that same ecedence of going

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Speaker 3: to a show thinking she's about to be cast as

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Speaker 3: a teenager, when probably she's cast as the dying mother

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Speaker 3: once again, and she actually says in the line I

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Speaker 3: have to die now I'm thirty six, like she's essentially

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Speaker 3: saying that, but because she's so in such shock and

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Speaker 3: so sad about it that she's taping up her face

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Speaker 3: singing forever young and brother of Marror, trying to make

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Speaker 3: herself look younger because you in that crisis. But that

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Speaker 3: is where both of those things come into mind.

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Speaker 1: Yes, forever Young has been sick in my head too,

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Speaker 1: would you know that? Good? I always thought of that

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Speaker 1: as being like in your heart, forever young, but what

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Speaker 1: do I know? And then for me, are You Old Enough?

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Speaker 2: Which is a very creepy song, which is about this

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Speaker 2: guy basically saying like are you old enough to have

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Speaker 2: sex with?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: But that was recently featured in Willington Paranormal and it

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Speaker 2: has been stuck in my head. But there's I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's so many songs about that and right, we're gonna awesome, yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: and kind of like a lot of times that it

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Speaker 2: is dudes like trying to get young girls. And there

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Speaker 2: are plenty of songs about you know that romanticized youth,

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Speaker 2: and we're gonna look into that as well. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: that it's very present and a lot of our media.

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Speaker 2: I was also thinking about books like The Portrait of

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Speaker 2: Dorian Gray, which isn't women but kind of again shows

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Speaker 2: this like real historical preoccupation we've had with youth, or

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Speaker 2: the old Hag feeding on the young maiden trop which

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Speaker 2: is in Snow White, and pretty much.

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Speaker 1: Every fairy tale that features an older woman and.

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Speaker 3: A younger woman try to take that youth.

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Speaker 2: Yes, which is another way women have been pitted against

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Speaker 2: each other in our media.

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Speaker 1: But also if you move out of that.

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Speaker 2: Like it's a compliment to say you look so much younger,

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Speaker 2: and it's one of those kind of problematic compliments where

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Speaker 2: what are you really saying and what are we holding up.

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Speaker 1: With a compliment like that.

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Speaker 2: There's this whole idea of like trying to get away

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Speaker 2: with it or looking you know, younger. And I was

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Speaker 2: thinking about this too in terms of I haven't been

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Speaker 2: shopping in a mall in a very long time, but

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Speaker 2: I mean certainly within the past couple of years. I

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Speaker 2: always I still go to the junior sect, and it's

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Speaker 2: because I feel like they're clothes, they are cuter, and

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Speaker 2: if you go into like the women's section, it's all

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Speaker 2: like business clothes.

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Speaker 3: Right, I'm not gonna lie. I've now jumped away from

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Speaker 3: the junior's clothing because their size no longer makes sense

302
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:19,040
Speaker 3: to me. Mmmm, now that is true, So I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: go over here. I think that's why I stay way

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Speaker 3: from things like the mall, where you have departments who

305
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Speaker 3: are very like ages in that they separate it like that.

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Speaker 3: H places like Target where they do have the junior sections.

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Speaker 3: I've seen it, but the women's section and the junior

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Speaker 3: section are similar enough that it's like, Okay, there's not

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Speaker 3: really different variations to this. I'm good with it. And

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Speaker 3: typically it's just all like, hey, here's this one sweater.

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Speaker 3: It was like Ponchos season of the Ponchos. So I'm

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Speaker 3: definitely leaning into quote unquote my age clothing in that

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Speaker 3: I'm just rather but I've always dressed like this. There's

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Speaker 3: nothing in my wardrobes, even being younger, that really said

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Speaker 3: this is a juniors off of it. Like I'd never

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Speaker 3: really wore like jeans, I had holes in it. I'd

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Speaker 3: have one accident, lay tripped and fell, and I you know,

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Speaker 3: like that's why, sure, But like it was never my

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Speaker 3: thing because I was always so self conscious that I

320
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Speaker 3: wanted to mute it down as much as possible, so

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Speaker 3: just as playing as playing can be is my my

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Speaker 3: go to and I still am that way to this day.

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Speaker 3: And again, I love cardigans and ponchos and I feel

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Speaker 3: like that's definitely like older leaning and I'm like, I'm.

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Speaker 1: Cool with that.

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Speaker 3: I will forever wear that. This is my this is

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Speaker 3: who I am.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I do think there's I don't

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Speaker 2: want to make it sound like there aren't cute clothes

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Speaker 2: for women who are not juniors like older, right, there are,

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Speaker 2: but I feel like in a traditional mall department store setting,

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Speaker 2: it's like, oh these are it's again like the breakdown

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Speaker 2: of the Badonna and the Horror almost where it's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: junior section, cuter, cuter things, maybe some cleavage going on,

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Speaker 2: and then like business suits, yeah, or.

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Speaker 3: You have the dresses that has no body shape and

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Speaker 3: it's somehow doubled up to something else and you're like

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Speaker 3: what is this say, because yeah, even in shoes, I

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00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,480
Speaker 3: do that like this is obviously a younger kid. Get

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Speaker 3: to stick with this, you know, not this, And it's

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Speaker 3: kind of like these are shoes I don't.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And that's something I know a lot of

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Speaker 2: my friends and I have joked about because I'm really

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Speaker 2: young at heart, as they say, and I feel like

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Speaker 2: I get judged for like in childish things and a

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Speaker 2: lot of times I'll end up in like the boys

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Speaker 2: section because they have like superhero shirts are Star Wars shirts, and.

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Speaker 1: That's what I like.

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Speaker 2: But then there's this whole idea of like age appropriate clothing,

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Speaker 2: which we could break down in more seriously, but in

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Speaker 2: terms of what we're talking about now, it's like you

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Speaker 2: reach an age and that's just you have to wear, yeah,

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Speaker 2: a formless right blanket almost you know what.

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Speaker 3: Those give me my moumou.

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Speaker 1: I've got my Star warso you.

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Speaker 3: Know, ill of a good poncho?

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Speaker 1: I do?

358
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Speaker 3: Do? I not?

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Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with it, but I think we need

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00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 2: more options and we need to investigate.

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Speaker 3: No. When it comes to also, it's kind of the

362
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Speaker 3: expense and who gets what is seen as a stylish

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Speaker 3: and we also know that we see that as in

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00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 3: sizes too, like when we talk about celebrities trying to

365
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,800
Speaker 3: find really nice, fancy things and being told we're not

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Speaker 3: going to give you this, and we're not going to

367
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:27,960
Speaker 3: sponsor you this. We don't want you to wear this

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00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,479
Speaker 3: type of thing. And we see that agism is a

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00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,639
Speaker 3: complete thing where we saw Millie Bobby Brown got like

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Speaker 3: ripped apart because they were like you wearing clothesess too

371
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Speaker 3: old for you. And it's kind of like, I don't understand.

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00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 3: She's wearing a cute suit outfit. Yeah she's sixteen, but

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Speaker 3: she's pulling it off and she's coming to a fancy event.

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Speaker 3: M what's what's the problem and her ripped for that.

375
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Speaker 3: It's not like it was sexy and even at that,

376
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Speaker 3: like we need to talk about that standard dress co

377
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,440
Speaker 3: standard outside of this anyway, But I had to say,

378
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,640
Speaker 3: is why can't she And then having older women who

379
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,119
Speaker 3: were wearing a little bit tighter clothes and showing a

380
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,399
Speaker 3: few more things and be like that's that's too sexy.

381
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,680
Speaker 3: You're a mom, You're like, well does that mean?

382
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just another instance of policing women's bodies and

383
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:14,560
Speaker 2: what they wear.

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Speaker 1: And like we'll take we being society at large, not me.

385
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 2: But personally, but any opportunity to tear a woman down

386
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:29,680
Speaker 2: right and make her feel bad about her body. But yeah,

387
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 2: like going back to you know that whole quote of

388
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Speaker 2: like looking good for your age, which is I think

389
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,960
Speaker 2: also problematic in terms of behind your back, they might

390
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,520
Speaker 2: be saying she's too old for that or whatever. You know,

391
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 2: never ask a woman her age, which really implies that

392
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,920
Speaker 2: it's shameful and embarrassing to get older. And then, yeah,

393
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 2: it was just kind of as you were talking, I

394
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 2: was kind of thinking about how clothing cycles, so like

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00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,399
Speaker 2: what people might have been wearing in the eighties is

396
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 2: now popular nineties amone younger people, and so it's kind

397
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,359
Speaker 2: of like silly that will police people for this, But

398
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 2: when when the cycle comes back now, it's cool when

399
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 2: young people are right.

400
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Speaker 3: Really kept some of my clothes because it has I'm like,

401
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,159
Speaker 3: I had that outfit, like I've picked out specifically, I

402
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 3: wore that in junior high school, in middle school. Cool. Cool, cool. Yeah,

403
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 3: And I think one of the big things you were

404
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,119
Speaker 3: talking about, you know, being complimented. I tell my age. Obviously,

405
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 3: I'm very fit forward. Everyone knows my age. I'm turning

406
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,160
Speaker 3: forty one soon, and it's kind of like, oh god,

407
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 3: I'm turning forty forty one. Forties is a huge number.

408
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 3: And then comparing myself and this is really bad on

409
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,360
Speaker 3: me and my own perspective as well as my own

410
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 3: biases is like do I look like that forty one

411
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,120
Speaker 3: year old? Because I don't. I don't want to look

412
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 3: like that like that. There's levels of like I need

413
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 3: to look younger and I want to tell people my

414
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 3: age so they better have a right reaction, like in

415
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 3: my head, they're going to be shocked or disbelieve because

416
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 3: as the way that has the other today they're like, okay,

417
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 3: I'm like sun and I just kind of walk away.

418
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 3: But there is that level as I'm getting older, like

419
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,959
Speaker 3: but I don't look like that forty one year older, right,

420
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 3: because I still have the image of my mother being

421
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,679
Speaker 3: forty something when I was so young, and now I'm like, yeah,

422
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,880
Speaker 3: I look like my mother. Obviously I don't because she's

423
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 3: very white and I'm not. There's very big differences, but

424
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 3: the aging level of like wow, it's weird.

425
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that kind of shit it is.

426
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 2: I think I think that line of thinking is really

427
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 2: it is encouraged by our media because I feel like

428
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 2: I see magazine headlines like that all the time.

429
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 1: Like how did she accomplish this? Look? She looks so young?

430
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 2: And right, I know, like you know list thirty under

431
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 2: thirty when I was researching this, this came up a

432
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,639
Speaker 2: lot of like that's also kind of a troublesome line

433
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 2: of thinking.

434
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: But we do see it.

435
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 2: We see it, and it usually it's trying to sell

436
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 2: something where it's like, how did she do it with

437
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 2: this retinall cream?

438
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: Of course, Uh, it's the.

439
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 3: Whole thing, and you know, going back to it is

440
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 3: a whole conversation about how we look at youth and

441
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 3: how we treasure that and long for it. Sometimes I

442
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 3: don't want I wish there's a part of me we're like, man,

443
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 3: I do wish that I was able to enjoy my

444
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 3: youth in that I have so much more confidence now

445
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 3: than I did ten fifteen, even five years ago, honestly,

446
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 3: not really like ten fifteen years ago, and really wishing

447
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 3: that I could have gone back to be like, hey, right,

448
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 3: it's okay, enjoy being you instead of constantly being so

449
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 3: self conscious that you can't you feel awkward in any situation.

450
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 3: And that's not a way to enjoy life. That's the

451
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 3: only part in that. But yeah, in the West, the

452
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 3: aging is often seen as something shameful and to be

453
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 3: hidden away and fought against instead of being respected, which

454
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 3: I'm like let's get back to that. Although to be fair,

455
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 3: some of the boomers have not shown that level of right.

456
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 3: I think whish we could talk about that later. But

457
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 3: like in general, respecting age versus uh, yeah, experience being

458
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 3: invisible because we're no longer relevant. I say, we our

459
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 3: elderly are often invisible to us. And yeah, in the US,

460
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 3: specifically in this culture, it's kind of gross. Yeah, but

461
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 3: we don't respect. Of course, respect is earned in that,

462
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 3: but there's just that level of like, huh, where was that? Yeah,

463
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 3: but of like, we want to age. That means we've

464
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 3: come through life okay, ish, we've survived it. And again

465
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 3: we've long discussed the link between traditional beauty for women

466
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 3: and power. That's a whole big conversation.

467
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,719
Speaker 2: Looking young, especially when it comes to women, is a

468
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,719
Speaker 2: big business. So many products promising to do away with

469
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 2: any signs of age. You can get rid of your wrinkles,

470
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 2: erase gray hairs, get dinner and look younger. Get dimples

471
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 2: that will make you look young too, like almost everything.

472
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 2: When we did our episode of Ridiculous History where we

473
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 2: were talking about beauty trends, kind of ridiculous beauty trends

474
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 2: or dangerous beauty trends of history.

475
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: Almost all of them were about looking younger.

476
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 3: Right, Oh yeah, absolutely, we're looking wider both of those things.

477
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 3: And some numbers for you, because you know we love

478
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 3: some numbers up in here. As of twenty eleven, Americans

479
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 3: spent about ten point four billion dollars on cosmetic surgery.

480
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 3: The anti aging industry is believed to be worth one

481
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 3: hundred and forty billion dollars. And then a twenty eighteen

482
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 3: study found that over fifty percent of women aged eighteen

483
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 3: to twenty four surveyed agreed that an anti wrinkle treatment

484
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 3: was essential to their beauty regimen. I'm like, I don't

485
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 3: think I have any of those. I'm trying to think

486
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 3: about it. Mine was all about acting because I still

487
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 3: get them. I got one big name of pimple right here.

488
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm supposed to be forty. This is not

489
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 3: supposed to be an issue anymore.

490
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: It's okay.

491
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 3: And this was up from twenty percent who said the

492
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 3: same thing in twenty twelve, and searches for retinal I

493
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 3: believed anti aging ingredient doubled in twenty twenty. Not gonna

494
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: lie kind of use that for my under eyes because

495
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 3: I was like whoa, I like tired.

496
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've definitely tried products for my under eyes. It's

497
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 2: mine are very dark and baggy, and that is because

498
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 2: I don't sleep very well, among other things. And yes,

499
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 2: just disclaimer, we're not really coming out against any of

500
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,719
Speaker 2: these things per se, but more against the societal pressure

501
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 2: that makes people, and in this context mostly women feel

502
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 2: like they have to do these things that it has

503
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 2: to do with their worth. And I think there's a

504
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: lot of fear around it, like every day your skin

505
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: is getting worse. I saw this, I think it must

506
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: have been in two thousand and one and two thousand

507
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 2: and two interview with oh, what's her name? Naomi Watts,

508
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 2: and she was saying, you know my skin, the way

509
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 2: I keep it this way is I put on sunscreen

510
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 2: every day and ever since then, I put on sunscreen

511
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 2: alce every day on my face. But that was like

512
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 2: the power of it, because I was like, what if

513
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 2: if if I mess it up now, it'll be too

514
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 2: late later, right, And yeah, this does start at a

515
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 2: young age, because I must have been like, I don't know,

516
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: fourteen thirteen or fourteen when I saw that interview, and

517
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: I remember when I was in high school. This really

518
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: traditionally pretty girl who's like a year older than me.

519
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 2: She was talking about her anti wrinkle regimend that she

520
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 2: was doing, and I was I looked at her, like,

521
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, am I supposed to be doing that already.

522
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 2: And a lot of anti rinkle commercials do use young

523
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 2: women that definitely don't have wrinkles anywhere if they do

524
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 2: their airbrushed out or like, not that.

525
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 3: Many, right, and I find this interesting. I think the

526
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 3: other big problem is not we're not saying that these

527
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 3: things are awful or that you know, the devil or anything.

528
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 3: What we're saying is we see this as a marketing

529
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 3: racket that is completely aimed at women. And if this

530
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 3: is truly for their benefit, women's benefit, why the hell

531
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 3: is this so damn expensive. That's the other part. I'm like,

532
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 3: what is happening? And then the links and the way

533
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 3: we're ruining the environment to get to some of those

534
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 3: things also really really problematic, And it's all about that capitalism. Yeah,

535
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 3: and we know this, and I think that's part of

536
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 3: the problem. Is it's not so bad to want to

537
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 3: try things that are good for your skin or what

538
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 3: you know, want to do things preventatively whatever, and being

539
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 3: self conscious and making you feel good about yourself, that's

540
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 3: one thing, but doing it at what costs is the

541
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 3: conversation as well as who is benefiting it and why

542
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 3: are we looking closer at that?

543
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 4: Right?

544
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 3: And of course we make fun of older women who

545
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 3: do it too, that they're pathetic and not fooling anyone,

546
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 3: despite the fact that we live in a society that

547
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 3: penalizes age and our further penalizing women for trying to

548
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 3: fit into that society that was created to go against

549
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 3: right essentially, so trying to fit into that narrative, trying

550
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 3: to make it a situation or having you know, the

551
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 3: audacity to change something that they don't really find uplifting

552
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 3: for themselves. That's a whole other conversation too. Why can't

553
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 3: we let it be?

554
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think this has been a big It's

555
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 2: been something people have been discussing a lot around women

556
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 2: and cosmetic surgery and all of this stuff we're talking

557
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 2: about we could unpack further in other episodes. But how

558
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 2: like we're saying the joke is you're dead at thirty,

559
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 2: like the median age is thirty three or whatever, And

560
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: then yet we make fun of actresses who get cosmetic

561
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: surgery to look younger when that's their career and their job.

562
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: It is a problem. It's a problem that that's true.

563
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 2: But I think it's very telling that we are making

564
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: fun of people who are trying to not lose their

565
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 2: job essentially in a really right sexist, patriarchal agist system.

566
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 3: Right, and also just knowing that for a lot, and

567
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 3: we could talk about the Korean beauty standards, which is

568
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 3: just which is a whole different conversation in itself, that

569
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 3: it happens starts at a very young age and being

570
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:35,719
Speaker 3: molded essentially into what is thought of as the perfect body,

571
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 3: the perfect face, the perfect skin tone, like all of

572
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:44,239
Speaker 3: these things. It's such an oh yeah, overwhelming sense of

573
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 3: like what what are we supposed to be doing? And

574
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,959
Speaker 3: for those who aren't within that narrative, within that frame

575
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 3: of thinking and or seeing looking, what happens to those

576
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 3: people completely dismissed and I'm not seen?

577
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's yeah, Like we said, it starts at

578
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 2: such a young age and you really get inundated with

579
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 2: it and internalize it.

580
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: I know there's been studies that found by like the

581
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: age of four, for.

582
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 2: Young girls, they're like wrinkles are bad, age is bad,

583
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: and a lot of other troubling beauty standards as well,

584
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 2: just so young.

585
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:16,959
Speaker 1: We pick up on it.

586
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 2: And like going back to your point when it comes

587
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 2: to this whole conversation of yeah, we want women to

588
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 2: do what they want to look to feel good about

589
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: themselves or something they might just enjoy it.

590
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: It's like when we talked about in taking.

591
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 2: Self care, you know, spat days, that might really be

592
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 2: your thing, but there is a financial and time cost.

593
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 2: And also this whole what we're really talking about is

594
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: the demonizing of age and particularly for women. And also yeah,

595
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 2: it's just that pressure, the pressure to do it. Like

596
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 2: if you want to do it, you know, good for you,

597
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 2: but it's I think a lot of us feel like

598
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 2: we have to do it, and there is kind of

599
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 2: like a fear base decision of oh no, my value

600
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 2: is going down.

601
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: I need to save up money and.

602
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 2: Go get this and go do this, and just feeling

603
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: bad about yourself, which I hate, right right, Yeah, And

604
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 2: then when we look at sexual assault and grooming, there

605
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: are so many instances, like we were talking about earlier,

606
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 2: of older famous men grooming younger often underage young women,

607
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 2: and there are even pieces of media in.

608
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: All kinds of media directly about that whole thing.

609
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: Several recent studies have looked into why growing numbers of

610
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 2: young women are seeking cosmetic surgeries, with one of the

611
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 2: dominant theories being asked to do with social media filters.

612
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: So basically, you.

613
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: Want to look as airbrushed as your social media filter looks.

614
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: You want to match that.

615
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 2: But also obviously the constant bombardment of messaging in our media.

616
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: Again, we can unpack all of the stuff and.

617
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely grown. Maybe also accessibility has grown. That

618
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 3: needs to be part of that conversation too, but it's

619
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 3: always been there. If you think about the women who

620
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 3: literally went through plastic surgery to look like Barbie, and

621
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 3: that was before social media. She was already famous because

622
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 3: that was her whole stint. And then there's been several

623
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 3: more that follows suit and they're big influencers. And that's

624
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 3: kind of that other conversation is the level of what

625
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 3: we look at as who are influencers, and it's typically

626
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 3: everything about looks. So it seems to me, especially when

627
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 3: it comes to women are non binary, and it's one

628
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 3: thing to love makeup and do makeup. That's gorgeous. I

629
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 3: really wish people could teach me how to do it well,

630
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 3: because I'm not one of those people do it well.

631
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 3: My niece is really good at it. She's actually a

632
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 3: makeup artist. I'm like, go ahead, do your things. I

633
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 3: don't know what this means, right, and maybe I need

634
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 3: your help. But that's something different than that. That's the

635
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 3: influence and trying to get that perfect standard. And yeah,

636
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 3: some of these we need to come back to. Annie.

637
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 3: Is the fact that a lot of these filters are

638
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 3: not made for women of color. Yeah, many times that

639
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 3: I've put it on my face and it did nothing.

640
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 3: I was like, what is this? And the fact of

641
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 3: the matter is because it's not for women of color

642
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 3: and it doesn't do which is probably a good thing. Honestly,

643
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 3: I don't know. It looks yeah, I don't know. There's

644
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 3: many times where I did the filter, I was like

645
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 3: why why, It's probably a good thing, But many times

646
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 3: there was nothing. I was like, oh, I'm too brown

647
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 3: for this. Interesting I compack to that. So data from

648
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 3: Okay Cupids suggests, not surprisingly, that men seek out slightly

649
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 3: younger women when they made the first time women slightly older.

650
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 3: But if men remarried, they seek out women half their age.

651
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 3: The rating theory for why is this is how men

652
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 3: and women have been socialized historically, with women more concerned

653
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 3: about social status, men more concerned with indicators of fertility.

654
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 3: I wonder, though, I have to go back, because we've

655
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 3: talked about this a little bit. Every time I ever

656
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 3: been on a site, most of the men, if they

657
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 3: had an age preference, if would always do their own

658
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 3: age as the cap and younger.

659
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 2: HM.

660
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 3: So if the man was thirty five, it would be

661
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 3: thirty five to twenty four, like I've seen that. And

662
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 3: there'd be several men who would do not even to

663
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 3: the As they were getting older, the age would stay

664
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 3: the same. So they might be thirty eight, but their

665
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 3: cap for twenty four to thirty five. And I'm kind

666
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 3: of like, you're a thirty eight year old man, you

667
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 3: want to they have twenty four year old? Is what

668
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 3: is happening? So I did find that a lot like

669
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 3: if it was specific, it was much younger typically, and

670
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 3: I found that very interesting. So I find this like,

671
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 3: I feel like that's underwhelming of a report.

672
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it was only a couple of thousand

673
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 2: of people. And also yeah, I mean it's hard to

674
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 2: I would imagine the data pool. It's probably pretty significant,

675
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: but not too significant when it comes to remarrying and

676
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 2: things like that. But it was just interesting because he

677
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 2: the founder, wanted to look more into this and that's

678
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 2: sort of the general pattern that he saw.

679
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 1: But yeah, be interested to find out more.

680
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: In twenty nineteen, the US Food and Drug Administration had

681
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 2: to release a statement advising against older people injecting themselves

682
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 2: with the plasma of younger people, the so called vampire treatment.

683
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 2: Soon after the FDA's statement, California startup Ambrosia Health began

684
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: offering one leader of quote youth blood for eight thousand

685
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 2: dollars and two leaders for twelve thousand dollars, and several

686
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 2: companies have popped up around blood and use in this

687
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 2: idea of like it's not always framed as it will

688
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 2: make you younger, but it'supposed to like revitalize your body inside.

689
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 2: And yeah, we talked about the vampire facial as well.

690
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 3: Right, I feel like if you got like just blood,

691
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 3: that's going to start a lot of flowing in your system,

692
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 3: and typically not necessarily because you're healthier, but because of

693
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 3: like the flow the blood flow, which we know does

694
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 3: have a little to do with like whether or not

695
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 3: you are pale, you know, all of that. I feel

696
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 3: like that whole narrative is misleading. But an you want

697
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 3: to go in, we'll buy two for one, two for

698
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:30,760
Speaker 3: the cheaper price.

699
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: I don't know.

700
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 2: That's some weird like blood bond before betweens.

701
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 3: Look at two bags. It's cheaper to get two, obviously,

702
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 3: look at it.

703
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: There we go, There we go.

704
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 2: I have actually written a horror story about this very thing.

705
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 2: When it happened, I remember this new story and I was.

706
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 3: Like, oh, it haped.

707
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 2: Speaking of horror stories, QAnon has gotten in on this too.

708
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: Some followers of q and on believe that members of

709
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 2: the Hollywood elite take a psychedelic drug manufactured from the

710
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 2: fear of children called adrenochrome, and they also think that

711
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 2: mosters eate the Pixar film is essentially a Fortian slip,

712
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 2: that that's what like kind of happens, and Hollywood accidentally

713
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 2: told on themselves. So the story goes that this chemical

714
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 2: is extracted from the pituitary gland of tortured children. From

715
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 2: what I can tell, the actual adrenochrome is fairly easily

716
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 2: obtained chemical. I don't know that it's like legal, but

717
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 2: it's not too hard to get.

718
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: Not that it's like it doesn't matter, they're not going

719
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: to listen to me. But obviously, oh, I know.

720
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 3: They went as far as the saying that, yeah, pedophiles,

721
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 3: that eight children and that has something to do with

722
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 3: that as well like keeping youth, as well as a

723
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 3: satanic ritual.

724
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:52,720
Speaker 4: Right right, ye okon you are you are something else anyway,

725
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 4: So there has been some pushback against these narratives recently.

726
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 3: In twenty seventeen, Helen mary And appeared on the cover

727
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 3: of a Loure magazine where she was called the hero

728
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 3: we need and when it comes to ending the anti

729
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 3: aging industry. That same article got a lot of flack

730
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 3: for its promise to use different terms of things like

731
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 3: anti aging, anti wrinkle, drawing criticism that it was just

732
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,439
Speaker 3: repackaging the same stereotypes. Yeah, it was this whole thing.

733
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 3: It's kind of hard where you're like, I think this

734
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 3: is where we have a hard time with feminism as

735
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 3: well women, not because we don't think it exists and

736
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 3: we know it's necessary, but the fact that we have

737
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 3: to highlight it in such a way that it becomes

738
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 3: a typical and it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be like this,

739
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 3: should just let it be. The opposite should be happening

740
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 3: where we don't have to worry about aging instead of highlighting, Look,

741
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 3: she looks so young and forever young because she's successful.

742
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 3: Now it's like we should change that and make that

743
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 3: a norm instead of trying to highlight it being unusual.

744
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 3: Can we do that same thing with feminist stuff, like

745
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 3: we shouldn't be highlighting someone because they're doing well as

746
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 3: a woman, but we have to in order for any

747
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 3: recognition or any equity to be had. And it's irritating. Yeah,

748
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 3: oh yeah, But whatever the case, people are finally getting

749
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 3: tired of all of this. Yay us included. Twenty twelve

750
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 3: worldwide study found that sixty three percent of respondents believe

751
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 3: that our cultural preoccupation with youth have gone too far.

752
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 3: And yeah, I think we just started to understand that

753
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 3: as all of the regimens and the sunderies and the

754
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 3: money that we could spend and the lies that are happening,

755
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 3: and the influencers that keep spouting miracle drug.

756
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,879
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And there are a lot of reasons behind

757
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 2: our cultural preoccupation with you. Some of which we've already

758
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 2: talked about, and particularly in this context in the West,

759
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: one is yep, money capitalism. Young people are believed to be,

760
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 2: not always accurately, actually the people who spend more time

761
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 2: on screens and thus are exposed to more ads. Because

762
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 2: of that, ads often are more geared towards younger people

763
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 2: and feature younger people, which internal leads to this idea

764
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 2: that youth is the norm and what we should all

765
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 2: strive for. We should all want to be these beautiful

766
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,919
Speaker 2: young people we're seeing in ads because they're cool and

767
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:19,720
Speaker 2: there's something to aspire to. Again, generalizations, because most ads

768
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 2: I see these days are just cringey, but you know

769
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 2: that's the idea. They represent people who are connected and

770
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,879
Speaker 2: living life to the fullest. People aged eighteen to thirty

771
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 2: have long been believed to have the most disposable income,

772
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 2: but again at twenty twelve study found that people over

773
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 2: fifty accounted for over forty seven percent of household spending.

774
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 2: And that's been an interesting conversation to play out as

775
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 2: well of.

776
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 3: Just like how that these kids are just coming out

777
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 3: of college, how do they have disposable advice?

778
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 2: I think it's just a really false It kind of

779
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 2: goes back to this conversation where we're there's all this

780
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: hand ringing over like the millennials aren't buying houses and

781
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 2: owning cars anymore, and we're like, yeah, because we are

782
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 2: not the same generation and we don't have who can't

783
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 2: get jobs, we can't get like you're well paying jobs,

784
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 2: Like it's different. But I think they're basing it off

785
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 2: of how it was and it's a mistake and it's

786
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 2: not the same anymore.

787
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 3: Interesting. I'm bafful because I'm like, I didn't get a

788
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 3: living wage, truly living wage until yeah, I had three

789
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 3: jobs and that was just four years ago.

790
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I think it's really misinformed.

791
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,919
Speaker 2: I think it's based off of how it was with

792
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: like boomers who had disposable income, right, but it's not.

793
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, So another reason our narratives around age, especially for women,

794
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:40,479
Speaker 3: as something humiliating in chambel, something to fight against lest Yeah,

795
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,280
Speaker 3: we needed we needed to fight.

796
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 1: Yeah for that, we need to fight to change it.

797
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 2: Well, let's just have when you think of because companies

798
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 2: and capitalism is so good at doing this and adapting. Right,

799
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 2: So we're like, oh, we don't like anti aging, quit

800
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: saying that in your ads and they're like okay, and

801
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 2: so now they're using all these words like combat or

802
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 2: defy or implying that your fight against this thing, which

803
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,919
Speaker 2: thereby implies that it is bad.

804
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep.

805
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 2: Another factor is long held belief that youth is linked

806
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,399
Speaker 2: to fertility and health of women, and thus a young person,

807
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 2: particularly a woman, is a more desirable partner.

808
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: And we've talked about that a lot.

809
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 2: This very unfortunate, unfortunate pressure for young women like our

810
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 2: sexual desirability, particularly when comes to the male gaze, is

811
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 2: also the value and youth is usually almost always tied

812
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 2: into that. A study of dating sites conducted by sociologists

813
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 2: at the University of Michigan found that a woman's desirability

814
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 2: to other website users began to decline after age eighteen,

815
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 2: whereas a man's desirability as a potential date could peak

816
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 2: as late as forty five, which is just upsetting.

817
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: That's eighteen.

818
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this makes me want to like flip the

819
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 3: table over. What eight the hill? So in twenty eleven,

820
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 3: study found that men reported feeling old at fifty eight

821
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 3: for women, oh yeah, twenty nine.

822
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

823
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 3: I always talk about I make a joke about feeling

824
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 3: older it's typically because my friend groups, I'm the older

825
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 3: one of the friend group, so I always tease about

826
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 3: the fact that I'm old. I don't know if I

827
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 3: started feeling really old until recently when my hips started hurting,

828
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,720
Speaker 3: which I was running and my hip started hurting around

829
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 3: thirty five, and I was like, oh God, what's happening?

830
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,439
Speaker 3: And my back went out, and I was like, Yep,

831
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 3: there it is.

832
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

833
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 2: I think it's an interesting jextaposition with conversations that you

834
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,439
Speaker 2: and I have had. Whereas I don't necessarily feel old,

835
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 2: but man, am I'm already preparing for what if I

836
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 2: slip in the shower? Like I'm already yeah, imagining these

837
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 2: scenarios and what am I going to do? Which is

838
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 2: I mean that is also a big part of what

839
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 2: we're talking about too, right. We've talked about that a

840
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 2: little lot of this fear of ending up as the

841
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 2: Heaven forbid, the spinster who has an no one who's

842
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 2: going to care for her, and she's going to die alone,

843
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 2: dial alone.

844
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 3: So that's the threaten it.

845
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,760
Speaker 1: Yep, it is, And we've talked about that recently.

846
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 2: And we're not going to go into too much history

847
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 2: because we did talk about it, and we have talked

848
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 2: about it in several things. If you didn't listen to

849
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 2: our Ridiculous History episode, you can hear us go into

850
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 2: more examples of the history of women trying to usually

851
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 2: capture beauty and youth through these very dangerous.

852
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: And painful looking things.

853
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 2: Often, but yes, there are so many instances throughout history

854
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 2: of people and especially women going to extreme measures to

855
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 2: stay young, whether it's Cleopatra bathing in the milk of animals,

856
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Bathrie allegedly bathing in the blood of virgins, Medieval

857
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 2: and Victorian practices of putting slices of meat or putting

858
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 2: some wine on the face in hopes of minimizing the

859
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,800
Speaker 2: appearance of wrinkles. In the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries,

860
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 2: ads around skin creams were almost entirely targeted towards women,

861
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 2: with these messages that looking young was the only way

862
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 2: that they could attract men. And here are some examples

863
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 2: of a ad copy from this time, one claiming that

864
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 2: quote middle aged skin, which could set in as young

865
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 2: as twenty two, meant that women had quote empty date

866
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 2: books or a wife who quote loses love. There was

867
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 2: an ad that featured to Belieguered Cupid crying I give

868
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: up a nineteen twenty six add read poor Lois, see

869
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 2: how old she's growing? Or this ad that asked is

870
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 2: it the greatest crisis of a woman's emotional life? The

871
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 2: sudden merciless message from a mirror's crystal dips you are

872
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 2: fading just a bit.

873
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: Geez.

874
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 3: That feels like a threat. How dare you? Yes, don't

875
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 3: throw me?

876
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 2: And this is also like, I mean, no surprise, but

877
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 2: depending on the life you've had and career options you've

878
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 2: had in environment you grew up in, your skin might

879
00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 2: just get a little rougher around the edges. This is right,

880
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 2: I have access genetics. There's all kinds of things not

881
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 2: necessarily in your control or at all in your control.

882
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 1: And this is just terrible.

883
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 3: Again, I feel that's a threat. So as these days

884
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 3: have shifted gears to sound yes, more modern, moving from

885
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 3: shaming language to traditionally empowering language like defy or combat

886
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 3: as you had just said. And then there's also the

887
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 3: health based jargon for you, like vitality, radiance or that

888
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,800
Speaker 3: glow which I told recently that I was glowing. I

889
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:32,879
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, I'm just really oily.

890
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: Thanks for passing, and.

891
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 3: There's a lot of emphasis on natural and the scientific

892
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 3: sounding terms, which if you haven't noticed, we don't have

893
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 3: many of those ads that we boys because any is

894
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 3: like hell na and I definitely agree. And in two

895
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 3: thousand and seven, Dove even debuted a pro age line

896
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,439
Speaker 3: because we're pro age. In twenty eighteen, a Neutrogena ran

897
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 3: an ad featuring Carrie Washington, Nicole Kidman, and Jennifer Garner,

898
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 3: then all over forty with a tagline We're not anti aging,

899
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 3: We're anti wrinkles.

900
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

901
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 3: I feel like that's the same thing, in't that?

902
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 2: Well, that's That's kind of this whole thing we've been

903
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 2: talking about, is we're these companies are so good at this.

904
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 2: They're repackaging the same thing with different language, but it's

905
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 2: still the same thing.

906
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 3: What's celebrity level of examples.

907
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 2: Rather occasionally these companies get fined for making unsubstantiated claims

908
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 2: like boosting genes. If you'll notice the language in these

909
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 2: the ad copy is usually quite vague. And I only

910
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 2: did a precursor research on this, but I'm fairly certain

911
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 2: nothing has None of this has been proven to work.

912
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 2: All it does, like a lot of times they'll say,

913
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 2: might minimize the appearance of wrinkles or something like that,

914
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 2: but yeah, you might want to keep an eye out

915
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,800
Speaker 2: for that. We've also got things like, yes, the vampire

916
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 2: facial leeches and placenta treatments that celebrities are singing the

917
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:57,959
Speaker 2: praises of, like some of the sounds what I was reading,

918
00:48:58,000 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 2: I was like, surely this is the sixteen hundreds ors

919
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 2: of Nope, it is modern day. So this has just

920
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 2: been a through line through our history. And also like

921
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 2: it is fascinating kind of what's been happening with some

922
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 2: of these women celebrities who have been releasing like that

923
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 2: non edited picture, which is also we've talked about that

924
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 2: in the past episode, but it was a couple of

925
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 2: years ago, so we might want to revisit it.

926
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 1: That can be problematic as well.

927
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: It's tricky, it's yeah, but it's interesting, interesting stuff happening here.

928
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,760
Speaker 3: Well, all of this rebranding around anti age was mostly

929
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 3: due to the fact that anti aging was already on

930
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 3: the way out. From twenty ten to twenty fifteen, profits

931
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 3: in that sector of fill from two point two billion

932
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 3: dollars to one point nine billion dollars. So yeah, I

933
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 3: do hope it decreases. I really do.

934
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

935
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 2: I mean again, if it's something that makes you feel

936
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 2: good and you like it, like I have plenty of

937
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 2: skin products that just make my skin feel nice, right,

938
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 2: and I love a good just washing of the face,

939
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 2: to be honest, It's surprising how nice that can feel.

940
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 2: But yeah, this like language and rhetoric around demonizing aging

941
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 2: and women especially who are aging any signs of it,

942
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 2: that's not healthy and that we need to change that.

943
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 2: We need to work to change that.

944
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 3: Right, And anything that's too gimmicky and over the top

945
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 3: versus the things that, yeah, again make you feel good

946
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 3: about yourself, that's great. If that's something that you enjoy

947
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 3: and feel good, then wonderful. But to be obsessive and

948
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 3: lose a lot of money and doing all these things

949
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 3: that really causes you more harm, that's that's a different

950
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 3: question in itself, and I think that that's definitely what

951
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 3: we're talking about and understanding, Like aging is not a

952
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 3: bad thing, Surviving is incredible. Good job you did it,

953
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 3: which is kind of how I celebrate. I get depressed

954
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 3: around my birthday. I've been talking a lot about depression lately,

955
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 3: mainly because it has a whole other connotation with trauma,

956
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:57,919
Speaker 3: and that has something to do with the holidays which

957
00:50:57,920 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 3: happened around the season, and I have a whole lot

958
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 3: of life feelings on that. But what I do celebrate

959
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 3: the reason I don't hide my ages because I'm like, yeah,

960
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 3: I did it. Yeah, I didn't think I could make it.

961
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 3: I'm made it to forty one, right, did it? Yes?

962
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: So we're happy that you did many more returns.

963
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 2: But that's another thing I was thinking about the other day,

964
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 2: is I just it's not a great way to live

965
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 2: if every day you're like you think your value is

966
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 2: getting less lass. No, it's not a great way to

967
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 2: go go about life.

968
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: Who anyway, we had a lot to say about this,

969
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: Yes we did well. Listeners.

970
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 2: As always, we would love to hear from you. You

971
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 2: can email us at Stuff Media, Moom Stuff at iHeartMedia

972
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 2: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at most

973
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 2: stuff Podcasts or on Instagram at stuff I've Never Told

974
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 2: You Things. As always to our super producer Christina, thank you.

975
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 2: Thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told You

976
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 2: production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts on IHEARTRADIOVI is

977
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 2: the the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen

978
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.