Speaker 1: Warning. Today's episode can day spoilers for episode six from
Speaker 1: season two of sevens on Apple TV Plus. Be warned. Hello,
Speaker 1: my name is Jason Conspsion and on Mersday night, welcome
Speaker 1: back to x ray Vision, the podcast where we dived
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture. Coming
Speaker 1: fromind our podcast where we're bringing you three episodes a
Speaker 1: week every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, plus news on the weekend.
Speaker 2: In today's episode, we are back in Loom and what
Speaker 2: is going on nobody knows, So we are recapping and
Speaker 2: discussing the latest episode of Severance Season two, episode six
Speaker 2: at Tila. You will never guess in a million years
Speaker 2: why it's called a tilla. Just some of my favorite
Speaker 2: writing of season so far.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get into it. Episode two O six Attila
Speaker 1: written by series creator Dan Eriksson and Aaron Wagoner, directed
Speaker 1: by Uda Brissowitz. This is her first first episode she
Speaker 1: has directed for this show, but she is steeped in
Speaker 1: the prestige television world, including stints on Stranger Things, Westworld,
Speaker 1: Black Marri et cetera.
Speaker 2: Which I think does really come through this episode, like kind.
Speaker 1: Of strange, strange contrasts in this episode for sure, Audie.
Speaker 1: Mark is describing his experiences of having these kind of
Speaker 1: breakthrough recollections from any Mark, and he's describing this Togaby.
Speaker 1: This is of course the in the wake of the
Speaker 1: reintegration process that Regaby kind of we are seeing amateurishly
Speaker 1: performed on Mark. He has shaken, like back this woman.
Speaker 2: I get that she feels guilty and wants to kind
Speaker 2: of help, you know, take down Lumen or or help
Speaker 2: people who've been severed. But I feel like she does
Speaker 2: not have the experience to do this surgery. Like every
Speaker 2: time it's not going well for anyone, and I'm worried
Speaker 2: about out.
Speaker 1: Yet, as we will see. So Mark is shaken by
Speaker 1: what he's seen. He's describing, you know, at a hallway
Speaker 1: that all of a sudden becomes these light you know,
Speaker 1: the the white, brightly lit hallways of Lumen. And he
Speaker 1: describes the experience of seeing his wife and he wants
Speaker 1: to know, like, you know, why is she saying the
Speaker 1: seemingly random like facts about Audis why does Luman want her?
Speaker 1: What's going on? Ragabi is like, well, clearly she is
Speaker 1: vital somehow to whatever they're doing. And she says and
Speaker 1: system Mark that listen when reintegration, when it's and it's
Speaker 1: happening now you know, once the process is finished, you
Speaker 1: and your wife will be able to be together. How
Speaker 1: exactly that leap makes sense is not laid out by Regabi,
Speaker 1: but like Mark is clearly buying into it.
Speaker 2: And that definitely makes me feel like she has an
Speaker 2: ulteriu motive. Yeah, there's something Reintroduitte because she's something she's
Speaker 2: deeply trying to commence. Mark, like, you need this, You'll
Speaker 2: be back with your wife, Everything will be okay. But
Speaker 2: as we see throughout this episode, that actual reality of
Speaker 2: an AUTI having older memories of that any and themselves.
Speaker 2: It feels and also, yeah, I'm gonna ask you about
Speaker 2: more about this as we as we get to the conversation.
Speaker 2: But yeah, very strange.
Speaker 1: I think, just to kind of precursor my thoughts, I
Speaker 1: do feel like post asseverance procedure, there's only one outcome
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Either you're Audi destroys your Inny or
Speaker 1: your Any destroys your Audi. You can't be both, No
Speaker 1: one has to One has to be the person and
Speaker 1: the other person has to go whatever that is. Back
Speaker 1: at Luman, Dylan is telling Mark and Helly about the
Speaker 1: map he found. He's clearly very scared. He's like, I
Speaker 1: don't know why I put it back, but I'm scared
Speaker 1: by this. Helly is really excited because she feels like
Speaker 1: getting somewhere in this, in this investigation we're undergoing. Mark
Speaker 1: is a little excited as well. Dylan just gets scared.
Speaker 1: He just like walks away. Yea, his privileges to be
Speaker 1: fucking his Audi's wife will not fun, but you know,
Speaker 1: like having an emotion.
Speaker 2: I mean it is his wife, but it's not his wife.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Mark looks in the fridge and suddenly the walls
Speaker 1: of the of Severance, the Glasgow block is like is
Speaker 1: just fading away because he's seeing he opens the work fridge,
Speaker 1: but he's seeing Mark fridge, Audi Marx fridge, and we're
Speaker 1: getting these like quick cuts between Any and Audi world
Speaker 1: and suddenly he's in Mark's kitchen. Miltchik is having a
Speaker 1: meeting with miss Wang and it's very tense. We saw
Speaker 1: in the previous episode that there is a little there's
Speaker 1: a power struggle clearly going on, and now it is
Speaker 1: kind of out in the open. Miltchik makes it clear
Speaker 1: that post his little meeting with mister Drummond that he
Speaker 1: understands that strikes on his record came from miss Wang,
Speaker 1: and he lets her know, listen, your career track is
Speaker 1: contingent on my approval, Like I can decide anytime that
Speaker 1: you're not cutting it here and you will not proceed
Speaker 1: to the next level, which I forget what he called it,
Speaker 1: like winter Soldier. I want to say Winter Soldier, but
Speaker 1: it's not Winter Soldier. I'll look at it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that kind of situation. But also I have
Speaker 2: to say, how unbelievable is this act that he can
Speaker 2: absolutely act just fully against this child like it, but
Speaker 2: it feels like it's.
Speaker 1: The most It's a stressful.
Speaker 2: Meeting in the world, and you are not taken out
Speaker 2: of it by the fact that miss Wyang is the
Speaker 2: child Winter Tide.
Speaker 1: Wintertide, thank you. So he lets her know, Listen, I
Speaker 1: get it. You want my job, but you can't even
Speaker 1: progress to out of Wintertide. Whatever this project title means
Speaker 1: without me saying that you're doing a good job here,
Speaker 1: that means cut out all the other shit, stop trying
Speaker 1: to undermine me, et cetera. Now here's a little something,
Speaker 1: because I just took you to the woodshed. But here's
Speaker 1: a little something I'm gonna leave. I'm gonna leave you
Speaker 1: in charge of the floor, but you can't sit at
Speaker 1: my desk. You can't be in my off go to
Speaker 1: the desk, and clearly the look on Miltchik's face when
Speaker 1: she leaves is I'm gonna have to keep an eye
Speaker 1: on her. That's what he's thinking. Mark and Helly are
Speaker 1: in the bathroom, conspiring in a stall, and she thinks
Speaker 1: correctly that management is continuing to try to divide them,
Speaker 1: which must mean they're getting somewhere. Mark then is like, listen,
Speaker 1: I have something to tell you. I had sex with
Speaker 1: your audi Helena, thinking clearly that it was you at
Speaker 1: the orbo. And Helly is like, oh my god. They
Speaker 1: really are trying to divide us. This is like another
Speaker 1: tactic from them. But I can't talk about this right now.
Speaker 1: I need to walk the halls and just like process,
Speaker 1: this is like too much for me to talk about.
Speaker 1: Milchik meanwhile, goes to like a storeroom somewhere and he
Speaker 1: is he grabs a jar of paper clips, and you know,
Speaker 1: with his review in mind, and the second point on
Speaker 1: the review, the criticism of him that he didn't put
Speaker 1: the paper clips on the correct way. He now very
Speaker 1: diligent applies the paper clips to his reports in the
Speaker 1: correct way. Elsewhere, Dylan is again meeting with Gretchen, his
Speaker 1: Audi's wife. She is telling him more about Audi Dylan
Speaker 1: and what he's like in it, and we get we
Speaker 1: get the feeling, as we got from the previous interactions
Speaker 1: that Audi Dylan is kind of a flake, kind of directionless,
Speaker 1: whatever the situation is with their relationship. She fell in
Speaker 1: love with a person that she clearly feels is more
Speaker 1: like any Dylan and less like her husband.
Speaker 2: Also as well, like any Dylan fascinating. Any Dylan has
Speaker 2: this just absolute kind of Oh, he's in awe of
Speaker 2: her and just think she's so great because he's been
Speaker 2: great and any for so long. So there's also a
Speaker 2: passion and appreciation that that it doesn't feel like Auti
Speaker 2: Dylan is giving Gretchen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Gretchen is like, sometimes I want to ask your Audi,
Speaker 1: like is he happy? Like, because I feel like he's
Speaker 1: not happy, And Any Dylan is just like, how could
Speaker 1: he not be happy with you?
Speaker 2: You're so great?
Speaker 1: You must be like just so good all the time.
Speaker 1: And she's like, well, you know, like we're together now,
Speaker 1: and he's like, yeah, but it's not the same because
Speaker 1: it's not he has you for real, like in the
Speaker 1: outside world. And then he's like, you know, forget all this,
Speaker 1: can we just like hug again? So they hug and
Speaker 1: then they kiss. So I definitely an emotional affair going on,
Speaker 1: and you need to feel this is exactly what Miltchick
Speaker 1: and the board want exactly, so Drummond want. This is
Speaker 1: what Miss Miltchick wanted, This is what Loom wants.
Speaker 2: There's no other reason they would be letting him out.
Speaker 2: They're trying to fuck up his ship.
Speaker 1: They're trying to fuck up his ship, trying to keep
Speaker 1: him away from keep him occupied unless it Mark's here. Well,
Speaker 1: all this is going on, Mark's at his desk and
Speaker 1: he's thinking about Helly and the art bow and all
Speaker 1: this stuff, And meanwhile Helly is walking around. She's thinking
Speaker 1: about Mark. He goes so look for her. They run
Speaker 1: into each other and she tells him like, listen, Okay,
Speaker 1: you thought it was me, which means you have feelings
Speaker 1: for me, And Okay, I'm troubled by this, but like
Speaker 1: I get that you're not to blame in this situation
Speaker 1: and I want my own memories of you. And so
Speaker 1: this is Mark's the luckiest week of Marks really because
Speaker 1: he's just like getting it left and right. He's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: the Abel twin.
Speaker 2: Imagine to me, you had twist my army.
Speaker 1: Now I guess I'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna have to have sex.
Speaker 1: Too, like you guys, we're gonna have to do it twice.
Speaker 1: I mean, twist my arm if you insist, let's go.
Speaker 1: They go to an unused office and it's this weird
Speaker 1: mirror in inside lumin mirror image of the Orbo because
Speaker 1: they're under these these plastic covered workspaces that like mirror
Speaker 1: the tent experience. And they get down to business and
Speaker 1: again Mark is, this is maybe not exactly what milk
Speaker 1: chick on the board we're thinking. When it's.
Speaker 2: Also I'm like, I love the wrinkle that Helly creates,
Speaker 2: Like it's it's really funny because they wanted the big
Speaker 2: reveal of season one is like, oh, she's Helena, you know,
Speaker 2: Helene essentially like runs the company like but really they
Speaker 2: make you feel like, well, you guys fucked up because
Speaker 2: Helly is a real one and she's crazy like you,
Speaker 2: and and it's so much fun to watch her trying
Speaker 2: her best to uncover the truth of what's going on,
Speaker 2: even in the face of this like horrific realization about herself.
Speaker 2: And I'm glad her and Anie Mark are back in
Speaker 2: the good books.
Speaker 1: It's nice. It's nice even though clearly Helly is unbeknownst
Speaker 1: to her a spy in some way exactly.
Speaker 2: And also Helena is is OUTI Helena is making big
Speaker 2: moves this episode, so.
Speaker 1: Like we as we will see yeah, when we find
Speaker 1: ourselves back with Miltchick. He's clipped so many reports, is
Speaker 1: like hands are shaking. He then goes to a mirror
Speaker 1: that's hidden behind like some folders on a shelf, and
Speaker 1: he now addresses the first point, the first criticism in
Speaker 1: his review, that is, he uses too many big words.
Speaker 1: So he says to himself, you know, he starts in
Speaker 1: a place like telling himself, addressing the criticism by saying,
Speaker 1: you must put aside childish things. And then that evolves
Speaker 1: as he addresses his criticism too. You must grow up.
Speaker 1: You must grow up, You must grow, you must grow,
Speaker 1: you must grow. He eventually tells himself very seriously and
Speaker 1: very intensely. And I know Miltchik is not severed traditionally,
Speaker 1: but you do wonder if it left me wondering, like
Speaker 1: if there isn't a different version of severance that is
Speaker 1: like not location specific, it's time specific.
Speaker 2: Like, yes, I think the big question in this after
Speaker 2: this episode is how does time walk in Lumen? And yeah,
Speaker 2: like the manipulate time. Did he begin as a child
Speaker 2: like miss wise? Right?
Speaker 1: Is he severed for like a three month period or
Speaker 1: a three year period? You know, like is something we'll
Speaker 1: talk about this more, but like we we get from
Speaker 1: the Burt Irving Fields dinner the idea that maybe there
Speaker 1: is a rehabilitation aspect to severance, and so like is
Speaker 1: there something where someone could decide I'm going to get
Speaker 1: severed for three years, I'm not gonna remember any of it,
Speaker 1: and when I come out of it, I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: like set for yeah.
Speaker 2: Like a different for a period of my money or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also because I get the feeling from I
Speaker 1: get the feeling from Milk Chick that like he's under
Speaker 1: a gun deadline wise, and it's not Lumin putting that
Speaker 1: pressure on him, like he is feeling like I need
Speaker 1: to make the most of this time. That's the feeling
Speaker 1: I get. Yeah, I don't know. Let's continue. Helly and
Speaker 1: Mark are basically in love now they come out of
Speaker 1: It's wonderful. It's very cute to see them post intercourse
Speaker 1: and they are in love with each other because they
Speaker 1: are just lovey w lovey dove. Helly realizes she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: they kiss, and she's like, oh, my nose is bleeding. No,
Speaker 1: your nose is bleeding. The clearly reintegration Regabi's backgroom reintegration
Speaker 1: process is like failing on some level. They go see
Speaker 1: miss Wang, who is you know, as the manager of
Speaker 1: the floor I guess is also like the school nurse,
Speaker 1: and as you would expect, she's very curious about this newsbleach.
Speaker 1: She it's like, okay, well the humidity is okay in
Speaker 1: the office, like because.
Speaker 2: She also probably has some awareness of integration dude, like
Speaker 2: yeah exists. So yeah that definitely asking him like what's
Speaker 2: going on with you? Like are you still sabbath?
Speaker 1: They're also probably you know that I would assume any
Speaker 1: like headaches or anything that happens like inside lumen. They're like, oh,
Speaker 1: the chip, like what's going on?
Speaker 2: Oh that's a great point too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so she's asking like, have you been hallucinating seeing
Speaker 1: auras and of course he has been having both, and
Speaker 1: but he lies about it. And then right then it happens.
Speaker 1: Right then the audi world breaks through and he is
Speaker 1: with Ragabi in his garage and she's kind of hooked
Speaker 1: up to all this hardware and she's like, wait a second,
Speaker 1: where you're just like a llumin right now? And he's
Speaker 1: like yeah, and she's like, okay, well what was happening?
Speaker 1: Like what do you remember? Do you remember Hallway? Do
Speaker 1: you remember an elevator? And he's like, I remember, I
Speaker 1: can't remember any fuck and he can't and he's and
Speaker 1: he's coughing, coughing, and we don't know how he got
Speaker 1: out of that, Like we don't know what the outcome
Speaker 1: of that miss Wang situation is. But like the worlds
Speaker 1: are colliding in a really fascinating way and it slips
Speaker 1: away from him. Regabby is like, it's happening, but it
Speaker 1: needs to happen faster. Why does it need to happen faster?
Speaker 1: I don't understand that, which leads me to believe that
Speaker 1: you're right, Regabby. Whatever, there's her own agenda and there's
Speaker 1: a deadline to that and she's she downplays the risks
Speaker 1: of like quote unquote speeding it up by saying, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: there is a risk of hemorrhage, but like we could
Speaker 1: do it, like we could like flood the chip whatever
Speaker 1: that is. And Mark is like, no, I'm no.
Speaker 2: And also he's like I love au E mok. When
Speaker 2: he gets like really in like a tizzy and he's
Speaker 2: being like a dick to everyone and he's just like,
Speaker 2: I'm not doing It's.
Speaker 1: Like I'm not sorry, I'm not get doing.
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I love this for you, Adam Scott,
Speaker 2: like you never get to play somebody in a tizzy.
Speaker 1: And we'll be back at work in Lumen after a
Speaker 1: word from our sponsors and we're back. What was that?
Speaker 2: No? What was that? What was that?
Speaker 1: Irving goes to dinner at the home of bud Bird
Speaker 1: and fields. It is charged. There is energy you could
Speaker 1: cut is an energy. It's a little bit like bringing
Speaker 1: your side piece, trying dinner with your when you're like
Speaker 1: long time part like and there is that kind of
Speaker 1: energy in the air. But there's also clearly like h
Speaker 1: and some kind of an attraction between the Audi Birtnaudy
Speaker 1: Bird and Audi Irving Irving apologizes for, you know, coming
Speaker 1: to the house previously and causing a ruckus and screaming
Speaker 1: Bert's name. Phil says, nonsense, and then he says, very cuttingly,
Speaker 1: it seems like what's mine is yours and that's like
Speaker 1: whoa okay, okay, over dinner we get a huge I
Speaker 1: think a huge.
Speaker 2: This is a massive kind of philosophical I think this
Speaker 2: is a huge detail. Wrinkle, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Bert says that he came to Lumen because of
Speaker 1: his relationship with Jesus Christ. He apparently was, in his words,
Speaker 1: a rascal of his life. Does that mean a scoundrel?
Speaker 1: Excuse me? Does that mean criminal? Does that mean sinner?
Speaker 1: What does that mean? We don't know. But he heard
Speaker 1: a sermon in which the priest said that the Church
Speaker 1: considers the innis and innis and outies to be completely separate,
Speaker 1: fully formed people with souls. Therefore, an any could go
Speaker 1: to heaven while the audi goes to hell. Why appealed
Speaker 1: to them, because again Bert being a scoundrel, he was concerned,
Speaker 1: not even concerned. He was completely sure that he was
Speaker 1: not going to go to heaven, so he would not
Speaker 1: be able to spend eternity with Burt in this way
Speaker 1: with Fields, and this way an aspect of Bert they
Speaker 1: believe would be able to spend eternity with it. Fields
Speaker 1: his partner, this is.
Speaker 2: This is crazy. So this is why I think Severance
Speaker 2: has done so well. And I was kind of awe
Speaker 2: struck by this and it was definitely giving me like
Speaker 2: Leftover's vibes. They take what seems to be a very
Speaker 2: simple concept, what if when you're at work you didn't
Speaker 2: your real life and when you're at home you didn't
Speaker 2: remember your work life. But over these one and a
Speaker 2: half seasons, they've extrapolated it to the point where they
Speaker 2: actually are asking really interest huge question, very huge questions
Speaker 2: of like oh okay, well what does that really mean?
Speaker 2: And how do you behave at work and how would
Speaker 2: that interact with your life, to the point where they're
Speaker 2: now doing world building about how, you know, global religions
Speaker 2: perceive this specific way of living your life of working.
Speaker 2: I think it's so interesting and I also this they're saying,
Speaker 2: like innies have their own souls, you know, so it
Speaker 2: becomes its own larger conversation and very interesting too, because
Speaker 2: the church sees the innis is having souls, but most
Speaker 2: other people and organizations don't even seem to think that
Speaker 2: they're worth having any agency.
Speaker 1: Well that.
Speaker 2: Is you.
Speaker 1: I almost feel as if because we've seemed you're right
Speaker 1: the disdain that Helena Egan and others look at Any's with,
Speaker 1: including miss Wang, that they're less than real people, and
Speaker 1: you almost feel like God, was this sermon pr some
Speaker 1: sort of is it right?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: What is it? In response to that's the interesting thing
Speaker 1: to me? And it and it for the first well
Speaker 1: not the first time, but in the most overt way,
Speaker 1: brings up the idea that severance could be part of
Speaker 1: a rehabilitation process, some way to rehabilitate people, to make
Speaker 1: them to make pe to to allow people who like
Speaker 1: Bert were maybe not living the most upright, straightforward lives
Speaker 1: to make yeah, to make them to get something useful
Speaker 1: out of their time. This is really fascinating and it
Speaker 1: makes you wonder, like what else severance is used.
Speaker 2: For and in what I think that you touch on
Speaker 2: something really interesting here too, because we will soon learn
Speaker 2: something else at the dinner. Yes, that that makes that
Speaker 2: I think adds to your theory here. And I actually
Speaker 2: came away from this episode wondering, you know, the hopeful
Speaker 2: idea of it is rehabilitation, but the other side of
Speaker 2: it is like, is severance essentially like an alternate alternate
Speaker 2: to prison? Like is it?
Speaker 1: I think it might be a different type of prison exactly.
Speaker 2: And then we start to talk about, well, when you're
Speaker 2: in Severance, how much time are you actually in there
Speaker 2: spending working? Because it does seem from this episode that
Speaker 2: innies and out he's experienced time differently. But we're going
Speaker 2: to get to that in a minute.
Speaker 1: So meanwhile, while all this is happening, mister Drummond uh
Speaker 1: is breaking into expect has like a huge bring of keys,
Speaker 1: let my man live, breaking into Irving's house. We have
Speaker 1: to note, of course that mister Drummond has the tattoo
Speaker 1: Frolic on his hand. This is one of the according
Speaker 1: to the Egan Lumen ideology, right, the four tempers, there
Speaker 1: is frolic, malice, woe, and dread and one wonders where
Speaker 1: the others are. But like, so this is interesting anyway,
Speaker 1: Audi Dylan, Meanwhile, I guess the same evening is having
Speaker 1: dinner with Gretchen and the kids. And we see again
Speaker 1: this kind of like very disconnected relationship that Gretchen and
Speaker 1: Audi Dylan have and we learned that Gretchen is straight
Speaker 1: up lying to about what she's doing. This isn't it now?
Speaker 2: It's an a well, I think because I think otherwise,
Speaker 2: like the any Auti all becomes very complex and well.
Speaker 2: You can understand how in some ways, if somebody behaves well,
Speaker 2: you could reward them by going to see their Auti
Speaker 2: family because technically it's their family. But as soon as
Speaker 2: she lies to him and says, I'm not going like
Speaker 2: I'm not going to loomin, I'm obvious, and she's like
Speaker 2: obviously now hiding the fact that she's like got feelings
Speaker 2: for any Dylan is very interesting. And again, I think
Speaker 2: this is a really intriguing episode because it is essentially
Speaker 2: centered around all these kind of twisted romantic relationships that
Speaker 2: the Severance program has kind of sparked. Whether it's IRV
Speaker 2: and Butt and Fields now, whether it's Helena and Helly
Speaker 2: and Mark, or whether it's any Auti Dylan and Gretchen.
Speaker 2: So it's really interesting.
Speaker 1: Mark is having dinner alone at a Chinese spot and
Speaker 1: he is eating like a total just get asked for
Speaker 1: a fork, No, he's he's lost, Okay, So being straight
Speaker 1: like with the chops of slurping directly off the off
Speaker 1: the plate, and it's like, just it's fine, you can
Speaker 1: just go ask for.
Speaker 2: Is the reason that he is eating like a total freak?
Speaker 2: This was immediately when they they he's this scene with
Speaker 2: the tray line. I've been thinking about it a lot.
Speaker 2: Is it is he eating like that because in that
Speaker 2: moment it is his any and he hasn't gotten to
Speaker 2: eat like food like that. Is this a reiggration thing
Speaker 2: or is it just Mark being like he's losing it?
Speaker 1: I think Mark is just I think Mark has been.
Speaker 1: I think both Marks are so they both have very interestingly,
Speaker 1: very intense like missions that they are on, and I
Speaker 1: think both Marks are ignoring eating as one does when
Speaker 1: one is obsessed with something.
Speaker 2: I like that, And.
Speaker 1: So he's eating like a total freaking Guess who sits
Speaker 1: down a couple of table is the way it's Helena Egan,
Speaker 1: She's crazy, comes over, believe this, with the look in
Speaker 1: her eye like I know a secret that you don't know,
Speaker 1: which is my fun. You're idy and I know a
Speaker 1: lot about you. And so she comes over and it's
Speaker 1: very flirty yeah from her, in.
Speaker 2: A weird Definitely. I love the way you pose it
Speaker 2: in your recap. You literally wrote the words like she's
Speaker 2: acting like the cat that ate the Canary. Yeah, like
Speaker 2: she is full on so happy and smug and it's
Speaker 2: power play. Yeah, that big power play. And also like
Speaker 2: there is Mark's energy even though he is not, you know,
Speaker 2: outwardly flirting with her, there is like a weird like
Speaker 2: hate fucking energy between them, Like yeah, he he is.
Speaker 2: There's something there that is interesting him about her and
Speaker 2: he's kind of wondering why is she there and the
Speaker 2: attraction is there now? But she also reveals something that
Speaker 2: kind of touching on what we said earlier. The next
Speaker 2: thing she says to him where she's kind of like, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry about the era that happened with the OTC.
Speaker 2: And then she says from the other evening, which means
Speaker 2: that to the outis the OTC happened a few days ago,
Speaker 2: But to the innies they say it was six months ago.
Speaker 2: So now is time translating? Does that mean that if
Speaker 2: you are an inny a day in severance like for
Speaker 2: twenty four hours for an OUTI actually feels like a
Speaker 2: month for you, two months for you, and they're getting
Speaker 2: more work out of you more exploitation. I'm very interested
Speaker 2: in the inny Auti timing of it all because I
Speaker 2: think that Burt and Ibes and Field also touch on
Speaker 2: something that could.
Speaker 1: We're going to get to that very touch on that too.
Speaker 1: So Yeah, she apologizes for the overtime contingency thing, which
Speaker 1: was when Lumen, because of an emergency situation quote unquote,
Speaker 1: needed to activate any Mark outside of Lumen from this
Speaker 1: was earlier in the season, and she's like, you know,
Speaker 1: it must have been so traumatic for you to know
Speaker 1: what was going on, and this on top of losing
Speaker 1: your wife, and he she purposefully mispronounces Mark's wife's name
Speaker 1: as Harry Hanner and he corrects her Gemma, and then
Speaker 1: he begins coughing, and he's like, I gotta go, and
Speaker 1: he does. There is a vibe from him like I
Speaker 1: recognize you somehow, some other way, which Helena is clearly
Speaker 1: looking for. She's looking for that. Do you are you
Speaker 1: responding to me on an emotional level beyond what you Yeah,
Speaker 1: beyond what Audie. Mark is aware of and what he knows.
Speaker 1: He raises home this has spurred something in him, and
Speaker 1: we see when he gets home he's very eager to
Speaker 1: agree to Regabi's proposal mister Drummond. Meanwhile, again one of
Speaker 1: the four tempers Find Stuff Finding finds interesting stuff in
Speaker 1: Irvin's home, including a what appears to be a very
Speaker 1: comprehensive list of severed employees and dates next to the
Speaker 1: names and places, saying were they severed here? Were they
Speaker 1: severed on this date? Very interesting notes in the margins.
Speaker 1: I'm sure people, you know, I know that people are
Speaker 1: pouring through this, and I'm sure that we're gonna be
Speaker 1: referencing this document later later on this season, Back at
Speaker 1: the Weird Dinner, Bird explains the meaning of their nickname
Speaker 1: Attila for each other. It means that, you know, they
Speaker 1: used to call each other Hunhun this, Han Han, Han that,
Speaker 1: and then it eventually evolved into Attila like Attila the
Speaker 1: hun unbelievable, like famous Barbarian who who who brought down
Speaker 1: the who brought down Rome?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so just like an unbelievably good bit of
Speaker 2: writing from the team here, because that's such a specific
Speaker 2: but it feels very lived in feeling, it's very very
Speaker 2: lived in this kind of idea that you guys could
Speaker 2: create this but obviously, seeing as it's also the title
Speaker 2: of the episode, we can probably assume that the Zach
Speaker 2: story has more to it and is going to be yeah,
Speaker 2: going to be important.
Speaker 1: Attila the Hunt, by the way, was a central figure
Speaker 1: in conquering a lot of Europe and was there doing
Speaker 1: stuff when the Roman Empire finally and irrevocably fell. So
Speaker 1: it's this feels like an important reference to your point. Now,
Speaker 1: Bert explained extremely feels explains that, oh, yeah, this happened
Speaker 1: twenty years ago. Oh, this this moment when we yeah,
Speaker 1: when we when this exchange happened, and when we came
Speaker 1: up with this nickname. Irving quickly puts the timeline together
Speaker 1: and the first Severed office officially opened twelve years ago.
Speaker 1: So that's interesting. That's before. How does that work? Bert
Speaker 1: quickly moves on to another let's.
Speaker 2: Move on to twelve years. Yeah, we just get mixed,
Speaker 2: see the timing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Fields meanwhile wants to know cut and cutting straight to
Speaker 1: the heart of it. Do you think Bert and Irving
Speaker 1: ever sucked it work?
Speaker 2: Yeah? He's like, what do you think?
Speaker 1: What do you think? And he feels like he has
Speaker 1: the right to ask, and I actually think that he
Speaker 1: kind of he probably because.
Speaker 2: He also poses it. I think this says a lot
Speaker 2: about Fields. He's like, you guys might have had unprotected sex,
Speaker 2: and he's like, and I need to know if that happened, Like,
Speaker 2: and he's the wrong that's but he also that's a concern.
Speaker 2: But he also follows it up with what I think.
Speaker 2: I'm very intrigued by this character of Fields because he
Speaker 2: also follows it up and he's like, I believe that
Speaker 2: innis deserve to experience love. So so whatever you guys
Speaker 2: experienced was magical and you deserved it, and I'm not
Speaker 2: mad about it. And I was like, WHOA, Okay, that's
Speaker 2: very empathetic. But I also can't get I can't get
Speaker 2: a grip on this Field's butt situation. I don't know
Speaker 2: if it's true or if they're using it to try
Speaker 2: and manipulate Irving because they're worried about what he knows.
Speaker 1: Well bert Well Field saying that that he believes that
Speaker 1: he's deserved love to experience love, tells us that that
Speaker 1: is a debate in this world exactly the personhood, the
Speaker 1: level of personhood, and the kinds of experiences where they
Speaker 1: should have enriching experiences are not when they are severed.
Speaker 1: It's very interesting. So yeah, Field is essentially saying, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm not upset about it, but I do want to know,
Speaker 1: like if I think in sex back at Home, Mark
Speaker 1: tells Regabi, Okay, let's flow the chip. Let's see it, right,
Speaker 1: which is like, yeah, it is. We watch it happen.
Speaker 1: It's super gross. We look at the hole in his
Speaker 1: head shelves red body horror.
Speaker 2: For severance, we don't often get a lot of this.
Speaker 2: It's like a big hole.
Speaker 1: It's a big hole about the size of like a drill,
Speaker 1: like the hole you would drill into a wall.
Speaker 2: I run, I'm that's what I'm also wondering about the
Speaker 2: severance process, and now that you've mentioned it, being like,
Speaker 2: is it rehab? Is it like we're talking about, is
Speaker 2: it prison? The hole was like so big. I was like,
Speaker 2: this is not. This doesn't look like it was well done.
Speaker 2: Like it's not the like keyhole brain surgery that they
Speaker 2: do nowadays, where they can put like a you know,
Speaker 2: a stent made of titanium in your brain. They could
Speaker 2: have done that with the chip, but in this world,
Speaker 2: they just drill a fucking hole in the back of
Speaker 2: your head and shove that chip inside. Like that makes
Speaker 2: me think it's not necessarily for for inverted commas normal
Speaker 2: like Laura abiding citizens.
Speaker 1: Right, this is a very very invasive procedure. And also
Speaker 1: we're just letting Regatti do this, like it's clucking crazy
Speaker 1: to watch it happen, Like what are you doing?
Speaker 2: She is also just like injecting stuff directly into his brain,
Speaker 2: which I just think it's just liquid vision.
Speaker 1: And I guess the idea is you're you're this flooding
Speaker 1: the chip means you are surrounding the chip with liquid
Speaker 1: that will stop it from broadcasting whatever severance signal is
Speaker 1: being used, and therefore remove the Glasgow block so it
Speaker 1: starts happening right away, like the walls start breaking down.
Speaker 1: Marcus having a really really bad time immediately, Like it
Speaker 1: is clearly incredibly uncomfortable and disorienting and maybe even like
Speaker 1: pretty painful. You know, he is seeing recent events such
Speaker 1: as his Inny having sex with Helene with Helly in
Speaker 1: the office, and that is intercut with it him seeing
Speaker 1: his wife.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like Gemma is there, and it's like it definitely
Speaker 2: feels even though it's not going, it doesn't feel like
Speaker 2: it's going particularly well, it does feel like reintegration may
Speaker 2: actually have worked. The Mark this time from what we're.
Speaker 1: Seeing, it's it's who knows stuff is happening. He when
Speaker 1: he sees his wife, he jerks back from the apparatus
Speaker 1: and Recody's like, you can't move your head that fast,
Speaker 1: like you don't do that, And well you should have
Speaker 1: said that, by the way, before we started this.
Speaker 2: Oh you could have just like you know, strapped his
Speaker 2: head to this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, why is his head strapped down? Like why is
Speaker 1: it just like free? Anyway, She's not a good doctor.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to say this.
Speaker 1: There's a knock at the door and where God is
Speaker 1: like ignore it, which is like, yeah, ignore it. And again,
Speaker 1: more stuff that we should have talked about before we
Speaker 1: started this process, like we can't be interrupted, like it
Speaker 1: should have been a big talk. Anyway, Mark's like I
Speaker 1: gotta go say so he goes and it's his sister Devin,
Speaker 1: and like crazy, foolishly, Mark lets her in and he's
Speaker 1: trying to act normal. She's like, well, listen, you know,
Speaker 1: we're doing this whole corporate espionage thing and I'm like
Speaker 1: very fired up about it. And he's like, just like,
Speaker 1: forget the corporate espionage mission. I've got something else going
Speaker 1: on on my own on the side and I can't
Speaker 1: tell you about it, And for the first time she
Speaker 1: looks at him and she's realizing, like, you look like shit,
Speaker 1: Like what are you doing? And the continuing bad symptoms
Speaker 1: for reintegration are happening, and he collapses hemorrhaging clearly like
Speaker 1: foam coming in his mouth, hits his head on the floor,
Speaker 1: which can't be good. Regattaga emerges from the garage and
Speaker 1: is like, don't touch him, and Devin like, who the
Speaker 1: fucker you? Yeah, And if not for plot Armor, I'd
Speaker 1: be like fuck Marks might die like yeah, And by
Speaker 1: the way, let me just say this also, I would
Speaker 1: have the highest respect for Severance. If they actually killed
Speaker 1: Mark me, I would be like, big balls, Wow, I
Speaker 1: respect this show.
Speaker 2: I would be so interested in what that would look like,
Speaker 2: especially with the notion of heaven and hell they grow
Speaker 2: up in this episode. Does any Marks still exist within
Speaker 2: the world of Severance. Then we would kind of know
Speaker 2: a lot more about what the space really is and
Speaker 2: whether it's like a physical space or all. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: very interested. I agree with you, pla ama. But if
Speaker 2: they really.
Speaker 1: Did kill this, if they did it, they kill.
Speaker 2: Them, that would be unbelievable.
Speaker 1: I mean it would be like a Ned Stark dying
Speaker 1: level move, which we know South Game turns to become
Speaker 1: one of the most set up. Yeah, so who knows.
Speaker 1: Like I would just I would respect it. I would
Speaker 1: think it was an respect an insanely dangerous move, but
Speaker 1: I would really respect.
Speaker 2: There's also so many brilliant characters at this point that
Speaker 2: I love Adam Scott. I think Mark is a great character.
Speaker 2: I'd love this stuff with Mark and Helena. But if
Speaker 2: they did want to go that route, they have set
Speaker 2: up enough interesting people to take on the rest completely obseverance.
Speaker 1: Bert sees Irving out of his home and immediately tries
Speaker 1: to do damage control over fields his twenty years remark.
Speaker 1: He's like, no, no, no, no, He's yeah, he got it.
Speaker 1: He got his dates mixed up, and that can't be because,
Speaker 1: of course we all understand that severance didn't exist then,
Speaker 1: so we kind of that interaction could not have happened.
Speaker 1: Then does Audy Irving by it? I get the sense
Speaker 1: that he does not fully buy it.
Speaker 2: I don't think so either. I think that as much
Speaker 2: as I think as much as but is trying to
Speaker 2: kind of smooth things over, I think Irving is also
Speaker 2: trying to smooth over the fact that he now has
Speaker 2: heard something.
Speaker 1: Clue, Yeah, he heard something important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he has like his Fields was a little
Speaker 2: bit drunk, like he was a little bit loose. Lips
Speaker 2: sink ships. And I think Irving and But are both
Speaker 2: now in this interaction kind of trying to make each
Speaker 2: other like, no, we didn't you know, we didn't do anything.
Speaker 2: Everything's good. We're still flirtatious, like, but obviously I think
Speaker 2: they both are now worried about what the other one knows.
Speaker 1: There's that interesting you mentioned it. They can They flirt
Speaker 1: pretty heavily at the door. Irving is like, we should
Speaker 1: have dinner again, and Bert is like, you mean with
Speaker 1: Fields or without? And he's like, oh yeah, with Fields
Speaker 1: that'd be great. But you know, like in any kind
Speaker 1: of way, yeah, you know, Irving says, and Bert is like,
Speaker 1: oh okay, and I love this because it works on
Speaker 1: There's several different layers of things going on here. One, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe there is an attraction Audi Bert Audi Irving continuing
Speaker 1: the chemistry they had inside that would make a lot
Speaker 1: of sense, and there is that energy. But also Irving,
Speaker 1: we know, has his own investigation going on. He's been
Speaker 1: conversing with someone mystery personal and I feel like to
Speaker 1: our previous conversation, Oh that twenty year remark was interesting.
Speaker 1: There's more here than meets the eye. This couple, and
Speaker 1: Bert specifically has maybe been involved with Lumen and Severance
Speaker 1: for much much longer than people know then the public
Speaker 1: timeline of Severance would suggest. And so maybe there's more
Speaker 1: here and Bert. The look that Bert has when Irving
Speaker 1: walks away is like, oh, maybe we might have to
Speaker 1: watch this guy. Yeah, suspicious a little bit.
Speaker 2: That's it now is kind of like, Okay, I'm suspicious
Speaker 2: and that is episode six. So let's tap in super
Speaker 2: producer Joel Monique and we'll do some talking about theories
Speaker 2: where we think the show is going to go in
Speaker 2: the last four episodes.
Speaker 1: Right after this break and we're back. What was that?
Speaker 1: What was that?
Speaker 2: We know, we were just talking. I'm just blacked out
Speaker 2: and then I'm backed out, but we're still a conscience. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I love Joell.
Speaker 3: What Yeah?
Speaker 1: What what are the what are the headlines for you
Speaker 1: after this episode to talk about?
Speaker 3: Okay, first I want to tap into this time situation.
Speaker 3: They do something You're so interesting in this episode where
Speaker 3: you guys touched on it brief. But when Mark gets
Speaker 3: his chip flooded, at first we sort of think we're
Speaker 3: in time with him, and then we jump out.
Speaker 1: There, actually, wait, this is the pre flood you mean,
Speaker 1: why when he's just like hooked up to the stuff
Speaker 1: and Ragobby And by the way, that looks like it
Speaker 1: might have been the first procedure, the initial integration procedure,
Speaker 1: not which happened you know, two episodes so three episodes
Speaker 1: ago now, So like it looks you're right, the times
Speaker 1: are all mixed up. I also kind of felt like
Speaker 1: episodes one and two and even three suggested that we're
Speaker 1: watching stuff out of order anyway, continue, sorry to break
Speaker 1: your chain of thought.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, that's that's perfect. That's exactly what I'm
Speaker 3: trying to lean into, is like, and especially if we
Speaker 3: think about season one, right, we're constantly getting Mark going
Speaker 3: to work and coming back. And I think Severance has,
Speaker 3: to Jason's point at the top about like, listen, both
Speaker 3: can't survive.
Speaker 2: Have to be one who can.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wonder if it's not a Lumine thing, if
Speaker 3: it's just a Severance thing, that's hard time, like what.
Speaker 2: I mean, like lumin didn't intentionally make it that way.
Speaker 2: That's just a side effect of severance is experiencing time differently.
Speaker 2: I think that makes a lot of sense because also
Speaker 2: when Mark was having all those memories, I felt like
Speaker 2: his brain couldn't comprehend having the Innian out He's experience
Speaker 2: at the same time because they experienced time so differently.
Speaker 2: So what you can't be in the moment that the
Speaker 2: Innie is experiencing if for them a minute is two hours,
Speaker 2: because you're experiencing way too much. So I'm very interested
Speaker 2: to see where that goes. I also want to bring
Speaker 2: up something, Joelle, that you said pre production, which is
Speaker 2: it is Helena slash Helly pregnant Joelle, who is the
Speaker 2: baby baby? Who's the baby's mom in that case? Go
Speaker 2: for it, Joel, because this is crazy.
Speaker 3: I have too many theories that I can't really like.
Speaker 3: This show leaves you in such a nebulous space that
Speaker 3: I feel uncomfortable planting steaks in theories. But I have
Speaker 3: a feeling that perhaps we're getting a lot of Jesus
Speaker 3: analogies right. We technically could have had a pregnant virgin
Speaker 3: if he got pregnant, the if Helly got pregnant when
Speaker 3: Helena was having sex with any Mark, then technically we
Speaker 3: have a pregnant virgin.
Speaker 2: And oh, that's such a good point because.
Speaker 3: We had a baby keeping pregnant.
Speaker 2: But she hadn't have had sex at that point. Wow.
Speaker 3: And in the opening credits, you know, which we know,
Speaker 3: they give the artist that designs those opening credits the
Speaker 3: show basically so he knows what's in the show.
Speaker 2: And then we did get weird baby oving at the
Speaker 2: beginning of this episode, and that was very creepy. Also,
Speaker 2: I think there's something very interesting about that potential with
Speaker 2: the idea that Miss Swang could be Mark's child, could
Speaker 2: or could be Gemma's child not with Mark. Also, Okay,
Speaker 2: so I'm going to tell you a wild theory that
Speaker 2: I saw in office. See what you guys think about this.
Speaker 2: They because this could kind of fit into your This
Speaker 2: could kind of fit into your baby situation. You are
Speaker 2: in the discord, there was a lot of chat about
Speaker 2: a theory where the reason they're all cult Winter Tide,
Speaker 2: you know, Cold Harbor, is that they have Walt Disney
Speaker 2: urban legend style. Kia's brain is like frozen somewhere in Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then the idea is to find the right person
Speaker 2: to put the brain in so he can come back
Speaker 2: to life. And so you're severing people to try and
Speaker 2: see who would be the most easy to implant his
Speaker 2: brain in. Maybe that's why they think Mark is so
Speaker 2: good at it, because they're feeling like whatever the work
Speaker 2: he's doing, whatever the refining is, looks like that having
Speaker 2: a baby that is an egan that they could then put,
Speaker 2: you know, the brain into, I think would fit very
Speaker 2: much into that specific theory. I love how out there
Speaker 2: that one is. It's very much fits in with this
Speaker 2: the idea of kind of like American capitalism as we
Speaker 2: know it because that Walt Disney myth was like such
Speaker 2: a big part of the lore of Disney for so long,
Speaker 2: So I think that's really interesting but also extra body
Speaker 2: horror ish totally.
Speaker 3: And it's been winter the whole time we've been here,
Speaker 3: and we're not sure how long we've been here, so
Speaker 3: maybe it's just a normal winter, but maybe it's there
Speaker 3: far up north and that it really needs to be cold.
Speaker 3: I love the idea of linking it back to well
Speaker 3: because that's just hilarious. Also, we have to talk about
Speaker 3: Attilla just a little bit, a little bit of a
Speaker 3: tilla yes, there is, And I'm sorry, I'm not a historian.
Speaker 3: So maybe one of you knows. Did Attila die of
Speaker 3: a nosebleed?
Speaker 2: Wow? I would love that, But I'm assuming he died
Speaker 2: of a of a horrific in a horrific war. Maybe,
Speaker 2: but let's let's double check.
Speaker 3: He was reading earlier while you guys are researching. Was
Speaker 3: that until he died in his bed on his wedding
Speaker 3: night of a nosebleed?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 3: So we have a nosebleed in this episode.
Speaker 2: I'm learning a lot from you guys, and I always
Speaker 2: love that too. That's there's no way that's a coincidence,
Speaker 2: right specific, That's we're.
Speaker 3: Talking about weddings and relationships and people together. There's sort
Speaker 3: of a betrayal some people think until his wife killed
Speaker 3: him again. I am deeply out of my comfort zone
Speaker 3: history wise, so feel free to correct me, folks. But
Speaker 3: this idea of yeah, they I keep coming back to
Speaker 3: this episode is like partner betrayal and isolation. We're seeing
Speaker 3: so much like genuine like love and affection, but also
Speaker 3: from the same people, icy hurtful distances here. And when
Speaker 3: I link that to Milcheck and his scene and his
Speaker 3: deep isolation, I don't know if did you guys notice
Speaker 3: that they had a fake mil Chick in the foreground
Speaker 3: and it's like a the mirror is just a window.
Speaker 3: The actor that plays Milchick is facing the camera, so
Speaker 3: you're not looking at his reflection, and the actor is
Speaker 3: looking directly.
Speaker 1: At the terminator. The terminator to that part.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 3: That part, and I think for me, there's something so
Speaker 3: disturbing because there isn't that sheen of glass in front
Speaker 3: of him. You get it almost as like he's performing
Speaker 3: this to the camera and it's so deeply isolating and lonely.
Speaker 3: He's got that. I know it's spinning off a little bit,
Speaker 3: but he'sid this iceberg above his desk, and I was
Speaker 3: just kind of moved by the way. So far, in
Speaker 3: difference we've spent a lot of time with this is
Speaker 3: a group of people who've become like family, who have
Speaker 3: decided to work together. We've seen them dashed apart throughout
Speaker 3: this season so far, and to comment sort of the
Speaker 3: center apex because I think the four episodes left for
Speaker 3: six in so we're about in the middle. To not
Speaker 3: only have them spread apart, but to have them having
Speaker 3: to go through their journeys and isolated spaces is really
Speaker 3: interesting to me, and I wonder if it's part of
Speaker 3: Luman's plan to as far as like, we haven't seen
Speaker 3: them doing a lot of numbers yet. I wonder if
Speaker 3: that part's over and if we move past it is
Speaker 3: like numbers, then we need to get like a psychological
Speaker 3: kind of trigger, and in order to do that, you
Speaker 3: can't have that group there. It's all like teases the
Speaker 3: face it people.
Speaker 2: Also's really interesting to look at how like mill Chick,
Speaker 2: the way that they are isolating is like true isolation,
Speaker 2: whereas the others that kind of trying to distract them
Speaker 2: with relationships or friendships and trying to kind of spread
Speaker 2: them out. But Melchick's is about you are truly alone,
Speaker 2: like you don't know your purpose. You're being critique that
Speaker 2: every space. I think it's a I'm very interested to
Speaker 2: see where Melchicks.
Speaker 3: My favorite theory is that they're setting Melchick up to
Speaker 3: fail because companies often hire either people of color or
Speaker 3: women when are sketchy and they're like, maybe this will
Speaker 3: save us, and when it doesn't, they're like, well we
Speaker 3: tried it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. An escapegoat and a thing that comes out.
Speaker 1: That is interesting. It makes me think of one of
Speaker 1: the things I've been thinking of a lot is Helene's
Speaker 1: relationship to the board. She's clearly on the outside. She
Speaker 1: presents herself to Mark in this episode, I'm basically the
Speaker 1: boss of the company. She's not. She's not calling the
Speaker 1: shots at all. She's not seemingly able to contact her
Speaker 1: dad at all or get a communicated with him in
Speaker 1: any kind of way. There's several barriers between that between
Speaker 1: her and him, and she was not able to say, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not going back in as as helly, Like she
Speaker 1: is being asked to do things seemingly because either she
Speaker 1: needs to prove herself or the sense I kind of
Speaker 1: get is that she is disappointed or fucked up in
Speaker 1: the past and now has to do this in order to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some kind of a time company.
Speaker 1: And it's all of that. What you said, Joelle really
Speaker 1: makes me think of what everyone's relationship is to the
Speaker 1: company and why they're doing their thing. Like if we know,
Speaker 1: we understand that Mark is very important to whatever the
Speaker 1: plan they have at the same time, that would seem
Speaker 1: to suggest that, like, well, why would you set up
Speaker 1: Miltchik to fail? If this is so important, and in fact,
Speaker 1: why would you even put him in charge of this
Speaker 1: project when you kind of don't believe in like his
Speaker 1: methods exact.
Speaker 2: So all of this.
Speaker 1: Is like what is happening? Like why do that? And
Speaker 1: the scene with Miltchik looking into the mirror, which we
Speaker 1: now know is not a mirror is also suggests that
Speaker 1: he's putting pressure on himself because he's under a timeline
Speaker 1: of his own that he needs to work, like it's
Speaker 1: not just about getting this right, it's about growing personal
Speaker 1: growth whatever that means, Like he needs to use this
Speaker 1: time to grow as a person, whatever that means to him.
Speaker 2: I think that that's really interesting too, because if we
Speaker 2: look at it from the you know, inverted Comma's rehabilitation
Speaker 2: stance or the potential like prison aspect of it, the
Speaker 2: idea that every you know, Mark just gets he's exploring
Speaker 2: what's going on, and Helene is trying to find the truth.
Speaker 2: But all mil Chick, like a black employee, is worried
Speaker 2: about is like proving his personal growth and proving that
Speaker 2: he has grown enough to move to the next level,
Speaker 2: which I think is like, you know, could depending on
Speaker 2: which route they go, could end up being like a
Speaker 2: very sad story about.
Speaker 3: Like this is personal mirror or specifically and like.
Speaker 2: Who gets who gets to, you know, get an early
Speaker 2: leave from prison, who gets to live outside of prison?
Speaker 3: Who gets to well, Like they replace him with a child, right,
Speaker 3: and then that child is constantly an aggressor toward him
Speaker 3: and sort of keeping him in line.
Speaker 1: There's there's a lot of.
Speaker 2: To grow as an adult, but they have put a
Speaker 2: child in his place, like you are you don't even
Speaker 2: need an adult to do your job.
Speaker 3: There's just a level of dehumanization, like you just start
Speaker 3: with the your the words you use are too large
Speaker 3: for whom everyone seems to understand, Miltchik.
Speaker 1: That's why I feel like there's there's a turn coming
Speaker 1: where Milchik is going to side with our innies at
Speaker 1: some like praying, I think that's coming. I will say,
Speaker 1: you know, this is also fascinating to think about, and
Speaker 1: it makes me wonder more about time, Like I've touched
Speaker 1: on it before, but and I haven't seen comments saying
Speaker 1: specifically that Miltchik is not severed. I don't know if
Speaker 1: they've addressed it. And I don't think he's severed in
Speaker 1: a typical kind of way. But one wonders if as
Speaker 1: I mentioned, like he's not severed for like five years,
Speaker 1: Like he didn't sign a five year severed three.
Speaker 2: Month saw something, and he has to get whatever he's
Speaker 2: doing done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like what so what is that about? Because it
Speaker 1: seems like he is under the gun in some kind
Speaker 1: of way. Any other issues and things you want to
Speaker 1: talk about, Joelle?
Speaker 3: Okay, two things very quickly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was going to say, who's but Joel, that.
Speaker 3: Is the question. Let's get into Bert very quickly. Okay.
Speaker 3: So we have this great line, uh from Bird's partner
Speaker 3: where it's like, you know, twenty years ago, I remember
Speaker 3: it like yesterday, but it's like you're drunk again. Here
Speaker 3: we have like potential alcohol problems. Here we have possible
Speaker 3: like reintegration. Bert, I really want to talk to you.
Speaker 3: So the internet is divided. Some people are not willing
Speaker 3: to believe that Bert is a baddie. Some people are like,
Speaker 3: what kind of person sinisterly follows you in a car
Speaker 3: a battie? Like the visual guy, he's a baddie. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm really interested in what the show is saying about
Speaker 3: people who on the outside are interingly cruel and one
Speaker 3: of the inside are giant sweethearts. It's very interesting because
Speaker 3: Helena Helly two totally different people. Helena outside has to
Speaker 3: be cold, we think for whatever reason, We're not sure,
Speaker 3: but she has her deviances up, she's not fully in control.
Speaker 3: But inside she's just like soft, strong leader with a
Speaker 3: big heart who's never cruel, as Irving said. And then
Speaker 3: you know, I think everyone loved Burt inside. He's just
Speaker 3: a guy who loves art and it was brave enough
Speaker 3: to go into another department. And I think the show
Speaker 3: is really leaning into this idea of like what if
Speaker 3: you were just sort of allowed to be in a
Speaker 3: space and craft and create And we're constantly sort of
Speaker 3: affirmed in that way, could you be soft without literally
Speaker 3: all of the other pressures in the world. And it's
Speaker 3: not contradicting itself, but challenging that with what we're seeing
Speaker 3: with the family coming in and so I'm really interesting,
Speaker 3: like what says about people?
Speaker 1: Okay, so that aside, No, I think Bird is a baddie.
Speaker 1: I mean, like that clearly they're coordinating with Lumen to
Speaker 1: allow Luman to go into Irving stuff like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Like I I think that I think that
Speaker 2: whatever the reality of bur is inside where he can
Speaker 2: just be the person he wants to be. I think
Speaker 2: that the outside version of Burt for whatever reason, And
Speaker 2: this could be very interesting looking at a kind of
Speaker 2: like nature nurture, like what leads people to criminality, what
Speaker 2: leads people to badness, what leads you know, as they say,
Speaker 2: I'm wicked like? Is wickedness like born? Or is it
Speaker 2: thrust upon us? And I wonder if there's something like
Speaker 2: that with Butt where his outside just can't escape that
Speaker 2: version of himself even while his any really did you know,
Speaker 2: love Irving and there was clearly a connection.
Speaker 3: He has a desire to go to heaven with an
Speaker 3: acknowledgment that he is not a good person exactly.
Speaker 2: It's very he's like.
Speaker 3: Cheating the system by I can't wait to get in more. Finally, yeah, sorry,
Speaker 3: go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, I just go. There's
Speaker 3: a really interesting color theory that I found from Gillian
Speaker 3: Quinn who writes on Pure Wow, where revelue are meant
Speaker 3: to represent an ease and Audi's and that when you
Speaker 3: see purple, when you see them come together, that that
Speaker 3: is a severed person alia. Shawkat's character wore a purple
Speaker 3: dress and she had very interesting questions. You know. It
Speaker 3: seems in her questions where we're like, oh, what does
Speaker 3: the air feel like? Like she didn't know, but also
Speaker 3: could that have been an act?
Speaker 2: I don't know, So she's like asking what people know
Speaker 2: more than that. Yeah, I think that's that part.
Speaker 3: That part and irving at one point where it's red
Speaker 3: and blue suspenders. The color theory is very intense. Sometimes
Speaker 3: it's about blended colors, sometimes about seeing two colors together.
Speaker 3: When Pete dies, he's in a red and blue striped
Speaker 3: bathrobe and he dies in a haze of red and
Speaker 3: blue lights, and I think it's just really interesting. And
Speaker 3: the purple in the room where they first have sex, right,
Speaker 3: and it's also there when Mark gets back and he's
Speaker 3: running around the halls, we see the hints of purple there.
Speaker 3: And so I just fans, please if you have more.
Speaker 3: There's something about green to you that I couldn't quite follow.
Speaker 3: I was like, okay to me, I want to learn
Speaker 3: more about.
Speaker 2: The Yeah, Jillian Quinn has been doing this throughout the season.
Speaker 2: It's really interesting. And one of the other things she
Speaker 2: brings up is like different colors for the different tempers,
Speaker 2: which seems to also play in to this episode. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I love this kind of stuff. It's what I live for.
Speaker 2: If we have color theory fans in the discord, please
Speaker 2: expand on this because I think this stuff's so interesting.
Speaker 1: One thing about the twenty year timeline. Twenty years, yes
Speaker 1: you whatever, yes, whatever the case. Woman's been doing this
Speaker 1: a long time. Mark says several episodes ago to Helle,
Speaker 1: like they're smarter than us. How can we fight them?
Speaker 1: I think the inquisitiveness of Innis, They're penchant for investigating
Speaker 1: the mysteries of their circumstances is not new. This is
Speaker 1: not the first time they've seen this. They see it
Speaker 1: all the fucking time, and so they have things built
Speaker 1: into the system to control this energy. They I'm betting
Speaker 1: put little mysteries in because they are understand the innies
Speaker 1: need this stuff.
Speaker 2: Or the other side that I would one day is
Speaker 2: is whatever the work that Innis are meant to be
Speaker 2: doing actually about solving the mysteries, Like those mysteries are
Speaker 2: actually going to lead Loom into whatever they want. I
Speaker 2: think that there's something like it seems like it draws
Speaker 2: everyone in in a way that refining doesn't, I.
Speaker 1: Think, and I just feel like twenty you know, either
Speaker 1: twenty or twelve years into this process. It's not the
Speaker 1: first time that you have encountered inquisitive innis who want
Speaker 1: to know more about the outside world and want to
Speaker 1: know more about like what it is they're doing in
Speaker 1: the circumstances that they find themselves in. So I think
Speaker 1: the contral role goes deeper and is more extensive than
Speaker 1: we think. And I think that Lumen understands this, this
Speaker 1: instinct that in he's have to want to know more.
Speaker 1: And I think they built just like the Lumen offices themselves.
Speaker 1: They built like a little maze that they can run
Speaker 1: around in that they can and so I feel like
Speaker 1: it's like the you know, the Bert thing, the Irving investigation.
Speaker 1: I feel like Bert is probably an early version of
Speaker 1: the types of control personnel that they would have in there,
Speaker 1: the types of mysteries that they would have, and maybe
Speaker 1: he's ran his course and so they had to get
Speaker 1: rid of him and and they move him, you know,
Speaker 1: just fire him and move him outside. And whatever Burt
Speaker 1: is doing, excuse me, whatever Irving is doing, whatever investigations
Speaker 1: he has, play into this extensive control as well. Because
Speaker 1: again I think that Lumen is not. The MDR crew
Speaker 1: has not. I don't believe that they are true have
Speaker 1: truly been surprised by this kind of like mini uprising
Speaker 1: that they're seeing. There's no way twelve.
Speaker 2: You're gonna say, even if it's a decade or two decades,
Speaker 2: there's no way. This is the first Innis who've ever
Speaker 2: been like, oh, this kind of sucks, like yeah, twenty
Speaker 2: four miles a day.
Speaker 1: Like, so, I I feel like there's clues in things
Speaker 1: that Lumen themselves have put in. They make it purposefully
Speaker 1: mysterious in a way because they want them to scratch
Speaker 1: that itch so they don't feel whatever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like the belly but exactly it's not shutting
Speaker 3: that kind of stuff down and letting it fester. So
Speaker 3: it definitely seems like and it makes sense if I
Speaker 3: can occupy your mind with right things that I can
Speaker 3: control what you're doing both while you think you're focused
Speaker 3: on this company and when you think you're not. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: this is all gonna try to be elaborate, uh loing
Speaker 3: to the rat race, and I am going to be
Speaker 3: so tickled. This is very funny and doug and thought
Speaker 3: it can tell I just I really love this show.
Speaker 1: That's great, it's really good.
Speaker 2: So much.
Speaker 1: Well, we're going to continue, of course our ongoing UH
Speaker 1: coverage of Severance season two, and in the next few
Speaker 1: episodes of Extra Vision, we're diving into recaps of the
Speaker 1: Daredevil seasons on Netflix, with a season one recap dropping
Speaker 1: this Thursday, and our season two and three recaps are
Speaker 1: dropping next week. And of course, UH you'll see us
Speaker 1: for news this coming weekend. And that's it for this episode.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, Joelle, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3: Bye x.
Speaker 1: Ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsion and Rosie Night
Speaker 1: and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Coleman.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abusafar.
Speaker 2: All produces are Common, Laurent Dean, Jonathan and Fay Wack.
Speaker 1: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Speaker 2: Heidi are Discord moderator