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Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. Just imagine you're forty

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Speaker 1: years old, You're the mother of three beautiful daughters. You're divorced.

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Speaker 1: Your life has gotten back on track as a professional.

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Speaker 1: You're successful, you've worked as a nurse, but you're lonely

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Speaker 1: and you desire love and romance back in your life.

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Speaker 1: You see somebody for about a month. I don't know

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Speaker 1: that much about him. How are you to know that

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Speaker 1: this relationship was going to end in death? I'm Joseph

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is body Bags back with Me again.

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Speaker 1: Days my friend Jackie Howard, executive producer of Crime Stories,

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Speaker 1: when Nancy Gray, Jackie tell us about Ingrid Lynn. Ingrid

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Speaker 1: Lynn was last seen by her friends on April eight,

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Speaker 1: and she was reported missing on April nine. Her mother

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Speaker 1: tried to reach her daughter but was unable to They

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Speaker 1: were on the same phone plan, and using that plan details,

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Speaker 1: she found a number, a phone number that was consistent

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Speaker 1: within her daughter's calling range. That person was John Charlton.

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Speaker 1: Charlton and Lynn had been dating about a month, and

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Speaker 1: in fact, the night before she went missing, Lynn and

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Speaker 1: Charlton had attended a professional baseball game together. The Seattle

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Speaker 1: Mariners again. She was reported missing the next day. Just

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Speaker 1: hours later, a homeowner nearly ten miles away from Lynn's

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Speaker 1: home called police reporting finding dismembered body parts inside translucent

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Speaker 1: trash bags inside his recycled beIN. The homeowner had been

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Speaker 1: out of town and they'd been should have been empty.

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Speaker 1: Body parts were found in other areas. The body of

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Speaker 1: Ingrid Lynn is identified. When police go to the home,

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Speaker 1: they find blood, human tissue, and a pruning saw in

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Speaker 1: Ingrid Lynn's bathroom, as well as trash bags identical to

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Speaker 1: those which contained her body parts. Body parts were found

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Speaker 1: at at least three Seattle locations. Now. John Charlton told

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Speaker 1: police that he was drinking at the baseball game. In fact,

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Speaker 1: he said he drank so much that he could not

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Speaker 1: remember what happened. He claimed he blacked out and in

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Speaker 1: fact did not spend the night in the home. He

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Speaker 1: said he slept on the Seattle streets. Ultimately, Charlton is arrested.

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Speaker 1: He pled guilty to all charges. I worked a lot

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Speaker 1: of cases where people have discovered remains, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: one thing to walk up on an intact body, but

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Speaker 1: can you imagine in the normality of life just going

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Speaker 1: about your daily routine, you know, just something as simple

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Speaker 1: as walking out to the street to retrieve your your

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Speaker 1: trash ben and bring it back in. You notice that

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Speaker 1: it's heavy, You flip it open, and then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden you look down and you see a human

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Speaker 1: foot or a leg or a hand. This man who

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Speaker 1: found these remains, he dumped all of this out on

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Speaker 1: his lawn to examine it. I can only imagine that

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Speaker 1: probably what's struck in first is this idea is can

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Speaker 1: this really be happening. I've had people over the years

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Speaker 1: just say this over and over again when they have

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Speaker 1: found intact human remains. But how much more so when

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Speaker 1: you begin to think about the fact that these are dismembered.

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Speaker 1: That is a human remain that has been literally torn apart,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's quite striking. And and secondarily, to remember,

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Speaker 1: these bins were supposed to have been emptied. Just imagine

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Speaker 1: if they had been emptied and you wouldn't have had

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Speaker 1: that initial lead. And for a police in this particular case,

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Speaker 1: that is a huge, huge benchmark in time when it

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Speaker 1: comes to a death investigation. So I will admit it

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Speaker 1: to you this is probably my biggest nightmare waiting to happen.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk specifically about what was done to Ingrid. First

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Speaker 1: of all, we're not really sure how she died or

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Speaker 1: are we. Well, you know that that's I think that's

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Speaker 1: that's the trouble here. Many times you'll have people that

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Speaker 1: suppose that if a body is in fact dismembered, uh,

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Speaker 1: that we in the medical legal community, that's the corners

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Speaker 1: and medical examiners, the forensic pathologists, we cannot make a

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Speaker 1: determination relative to the cause of death. And in Ingrid

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Speaker 1: Len's case, they were able to surmise that now I

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Speaker 1: got a bit of information, I'm gonna drop on you here,

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Speaker 1: and this is kind of chilling. First all, when they

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Speaker 1: recovered those initial remains that we were talking about, this

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Speaker 1: gentleman found in his in his recycled bent out there,

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Speaker 1: one of those items was the head okay, be perfectly blunt.

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Speaker 1: And the fact that not only did they have a

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Speaker 1: human head, but the police automatically noticed that the facial

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Speaker 1: features of the of these remains matched up to Ingrid Lynn,

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Speaker 1: who had been reported missing. And remember, this is the

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Speaker 1: mother of three young girls. All right, She's got people

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Speaker 1: that are missing her. This sort of thing, they're curious

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Speaker 1: as to where she is, So this went out on

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Speaker 1: the wire pretty quickly. The fact that these remains were

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Speaker 1: recognizable gives us an indication as to what the medical

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Speaker 1: examiner there had to work with, and that means that

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Speaker 1: soft tissue Jackie was still intact, probably intact around the neck.

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Speaker 1: So when the postmortim exam domination is done, and yet

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Speaker 1: you still do an autopsy even on dismembered remains, that's

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Speaker 1: that's part of what we do. They would have been

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Speaker 1: able to go into the tissue of her neck, all

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Speaker 1: that remained of her neck, and would have what we

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Speaker 1: refer to as reflected it and underlying that area you

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Speaker 1: could see obvious trauma, and that trauma, at least in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, based upon what they saw, gave an indication

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Speaker 1: that there had been direct pressure applied. Now, this is

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Speaker 1: kind of one of these little UH thin wires, if

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Speaker 1: you will, that we walk uh in post mortem examinations.

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Speaker 1: We have to determine if something is actually anti mortem

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Speaker 1: that means prior to death, or if it's postmortem. And

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Speaker 1: in this case, based upon the fact that they have

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Speaker 1: evidence of strangulation, that tells us that these events that

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Speaker 1: led to this hemorrhage underlying and soft tissues of her neck. Uh.

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Speaker 1: That means that it's anti mortem, that this is this

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Speaker 1: was accurring before death. The way we know that is

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Speaker 1: that blood is pumping at this moment time. So as

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Speaker 1: pressure is being applied to her neck in the area

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Speaker 1: around the structures in her neck. You know, you you

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Speaker 1: think about the latyr nix and all those sorts of

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Speaker 1: things that we look at. You've got indwelling hemorrhage there.

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Speaker 1: So the blood is pumping, You're compressing this area, is

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Speaker 1: squeezing the vessels, and that blood begins to leach out

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Speaker 1: and it causes specific hemorrhage in those areas, and so

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Speaker 1: as it gets out in the soft tissue, it leaves

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Speaker 1: a mark. It's not going anywhere. So even after she's

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Speaker 1: dead and her body is so traumatized postman and postmoru

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Speaker 1: state with dismemberment, that evidence is still going to be there.

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Speaker 1: And that's how they made the determination about her exact

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Speaker 1: cause of death. Do we know if it was literature

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Speaker 1: or manual. That's not specified as to whether or not

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Speaker 1: it was a ligature or a manual strangulation. Most of

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Speaker 1: the time when you have someone uh that has sustained

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Speaker 1: a ligature strangulation in the cause of death. From a

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Speaker 1: medical legal standpoint, they will actually say ligature strangulation, which

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Speaker 1: implies that a chord or a wire or a rope

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Speaker 1: was actually utilized in bringing about this person's death. Most

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Speaker 1: of the time, when you hear strangulation as a stand

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Speaker 1: alone like this, you can kind of take an intellectual

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Speaker 1: leap there and suppose that the medical examiner is going

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Speaker 1: to list this as a manual, that this is more

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Speaker 1: of a manual event that's nonspecific. And one of the

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Speaker 1: ways that we look at this is we begin to

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Speaker 1: think about, you know, with literature strangulation, you've got like

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Speaker 1: a thin cord, just imagine a thin chord and you

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Speaker 1: apply it to a surface, and the hemorrhage is very

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Speaker 1: very specific in uniform. When manual strangulation, you're going to

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Speaker 1: have what's referred to as diffuse hemorrhage because the pressure

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Speaker 1: is being applied and multiple locations, is not just specifically

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Speaker 1: on one little line that you would get from a

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Speaker 1: rope or a wire, So it's a diffuse diffuse hammer

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Speaker 1: it in this area. So that's probably what they landed

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Speaker 1: upon at the end of the day, I would have

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Speaker 1: to imagine and I realized I say that a lot

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Speaker 1: to you, but I would have to imagine that given

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Speaker 1: what was done to Ingrid, in fact that she was decapitated,

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Speaker 1: would also interfere with coming to a final conclusion about

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Speaker 1: how she was strangled. Yeah, it certainly could. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you have to think about, you know, the process of

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Speaker 1: dismemberment and the mindset that goes into this. You know,

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Speaker 1: you begin to think about an individual that decides to

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Speaker 1: take some kind of instrument and literally take a human

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Speaker 1: body apart. Well, at the end of the day, there's

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Speaker 1: there's two reasons, um why an individual does this. First off,

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Speaker 1: they try to they try to obliterate any ability to

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Speaker 1: identify body, which in this case was um was you know,

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Speaker 1: not not successful. And then you try to ask or

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Speaker 1: cover up how an individual died. And you would think

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Speaker 1: in doing that they would disrupt the ability for us

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Speaker 1: to make a determination post mortal mess to the cause

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Speaker 1: of death. But that's that's rarely the case. You know,

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Speaker 1: you think about gunshot wounds, we can discover those on

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Speaker 1: dismembered bodies, and certainly if we have specific trauma like

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Speaker 1: a a strangulation, death, we can still determine those things

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Speaker 1: that The problem is is that many times, most of

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Speaker 1: the time, let's just say most of the time, the

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Speaker 1: perpetrators of these crimes that engage in this, they're not

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Speaker 1: sophisticated scientifically. They don't have an understanding of the end game,

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Speaker 1: if you will. When we get those remains back to

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Speaker 1: our facility to examine them, we have the ability to

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Speaker 1: look in places and see things that they never even consider,

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Speaker 1: Jackie um. And so that's you know, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a head scratcher because you know, when you're talking about

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Speaker 1: dismembering a body, you're talking about a tremendous amount of

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Speaker 1: time that's involved in this. Um thought has to go

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Speaker 1: into it. You have to uh do it in a

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Speaker 1: contained area because it's such a messy affair, you know,

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Speaker 1: when when you're going through the process of literally taking

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Speaker 1: apart a human remain. And so, but what what is

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Speaker 1: your end goal here? You know? And I'm I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of throwing that out there relative to rhetorically, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: for a perpetrator in case like this, what is your

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Speaker 1: end goal and trying to uh take a part of body? Now,

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Speaker 1: I think that there's probably a lot of forensic psychologists

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Speaker 1: and psychologists, psychiatrists and psychologists out there that would say, well,

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Speaker 1: it's an attempt to destroy the individual, uh and and

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Speaker 1: you know, do away with them and do further harm

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Speaker 1: to them even in death. And that that might be

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Speaker 1: the case. But from a practical standpoint, why in the

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Speaker 1: world are you gonna take an instrument and literally saw

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Speaker 1: through bond uh and then take the individual elements of

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Speaker 1: the body, such as in ingrand Lens case, and package

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Speaker 1: them individually. Why are you gonna go to all that trouble?

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Speaker 1: We discussed the most horrible things that happened to humans

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Speaker 1: on body bags. That's our purpose, you know, to break

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Speaker 1: down the forensics and talk about this. In this particular case,

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Speaker 1: she began to think about, um, what happened to ingrid Lynn,

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Speaker 1: not just her death, but what happened after her death.

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Speaker 1: And it's it's mind boggling. I think to the normal

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Speaker 1: person out there that's walking up and down the street,

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Speaker 1: they don't even consider that a monster like this might

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Speaker 1: be out there among us, but they truly are. Jack

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Speaker 1: and unfortunately ingrid Lynn ran into one. So we know

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Speaker 1: that she was strangled and that her body was dismembered

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Speaker 1: and discarded. Police found a pruning saw in her bathroom

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Speaker 1: that was used to dismember her body. What is a

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Speaker 1: pruning saw? And how hard is it to dismember a

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Speaker 1: body with a pruning saw? When you begin to think

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Speaker 1: about the different types of cutting instruments that are out there,

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Speaker 1: and when I say cutting instruments, I'm I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: everything from uh, from butcher knives to serrated steak knives

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Speaker 1: to axes, machetes, and of course we have an entire

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Speaker 1: subset of saws. I mean, how many of us over

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Speaker 1: the years have have considered us all? Most people don't

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Speaker 1: in their day to day life, unless you're a carpenter

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Speaker 1: or unless you're I don't know what they call what

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Speaker 1: they call a tree surgeon, for instance, Uh, you think

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Speaker 1: about the utility of the tool that you're going to

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Speaker 1: bring to work. You know, it's like a tree surgeon

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Speaker 1: that goes out two trim tree limbs. They don't bring

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Speaker 1: a hack saw. You know, next time you're at there,

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Speaker 1: you take a look at a axel and see what

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Speaker 1: those teeth look like. They're very very fine, They're tiny,

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Speaker 1: very tiny. Um. Whereas when you begin to consider, for instance,

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Speaker 1: a saw that would be used to prune a tree.

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Speaker 1: Those teeth are first off there, they're very large, they're

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Speaker 1: very jagged, and they're kind of offset. If you will,

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Speaker 1: uh and when you when I say offset, if you'll

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Speaker 1: look down what's referred to as the long axis of

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Speaker 1: the blade, and I'm talking about looking at the blade

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Speaker 1: down the length of it, you'll see that those teeth

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Speaker 1: are kind of offset. And each saw, just like a

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Speaker 1: fingerprint for instance, is unique to itself, and that's heavily

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Speaker 1: depended upon the level of usage that goes into it.

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Speaker 1: In this particular case, we're talking about a pruning saw

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Speaker 1: um and it's similar to maybe what you would think

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Speaker 1: about with a limb saw that's kind of a Bode

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Speaker 1: Bowe type of handle on it, but it's different. This

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Speaker 1: has got a standalone grip handle and the blade is

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Speaker 1: actually curved and it facilitates being able to go out

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Speaker 1: in kind of a one man operation if you will

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Speaker 1: place it into a tight space in trim limbs. You'd

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Speaker 1: see somebody using a prune and saw more likely on

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Speaker 1: a set of boxwoods in front of their home as

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Speaker 1: opposed to some gigantic oak tree. All right, but the

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Speaker 1: teeth are very broad. It leaves a very distinctive mark.

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Speaker 1: And so when we examine things microscopically, for instance, like

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Speaker 1: tool marks, in a case like this, UM, we would

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Speaker 1: look for specific indentations and marks on that bone. Because

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Speaker 1: remember forensics, it's all about connectivity, you know, tying back

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Speaker 1: to say, an instrument like this, Uh. Can you take

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Speaker 1: that saw and marry it up to the marks that

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Speaker 1: are left on the body. And that's what would be done, say,

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Speaker 1: for instance, in a criminalistic section or maybe in the

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Speaker 1: hands of a forensic anthropologist who actually uh specialized is

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Speaker 1: in dismemberment. And yes, those people do do, in fact exist.

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Speaker 1: I've actually got a good friend that did research in

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Speaker 1: this area. So it's all about tying back to the saw.

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Speaker 1: And when you get this saw, and I can only

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Speaker 1: imagine when they recovered the saw at the same Jackie,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that they're gonna look for is

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Speaker 1: in those teeth of the saw. The reason I pointed

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Speaker 1: out that they're so offset, they're very difficult to clean up.

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Speaker 1: So what are you gonna find. You'll never get everything

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Speaker 1: off of them, Jackie. You're gonna get You're gonna see

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Speaker 1: what's left behind. Say, for instance, like bone dust are

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Speaker 1: it kind of turns into like a wet sawdust if

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Speaker 1: you will, and they will collect in specific areas, and

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Speaker 1: most perpetrators don't consider that. Then of course you're going

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Speaker 1: to have blood that's gonna be left behind. And I

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Speaker 1: know this is very gruesome, but you're gonna actually have

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Speaker 1: skin tissue and you will have muscle tissue. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: if the saw passed through any kind of cartilaginous body,

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Speaker 1: that two separate type of tissue that microscopically is are

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Speaker 1: identifiable because it has specific markers in it that you

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Speaker 1: can look and identify. And here, but here's here's the

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Speaker 1: linkage here. In all of these instances with a saw

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Speaker 1: like this, not only are you marking the bone and

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Speaker 1: I can talk about what that's gonna look like, but

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Speaker 1: also this tissue that's left behind is specifically identifiable as

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Speaker 1: it applies to a victim. Because yeah, we could do

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Speaker 1: things like blood typing, but what's really you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of the home run for us in the forensics area

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Speaker 1: is d n A tie backs and and this tissue

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Speaker 1: that you're talking about is absolutely absolutely just rife with

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Speaker 1: With a d n A that's been left behind, you

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Speaker 1: begin to think about things like blood blood. You know,

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Speaker 1: we can go back and not only type the blood

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Speaker 1: and tied back, you know, to all the O grouping,

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Speaker 1: B grouping, A B grouping, that sort of thing, but

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Speaker 1: at a molecular level relative to DNA, you can tie

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Speaker 1: that back to a specific individual. And in england Lens case,

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Speaker 1: we have other than being dismembered. The remains are not

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Speaker 1: compromised by decomposition on any level. So you can retrieve

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Speaker 1: DNA from her and compare it to the saw. And

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Speaker 1: so those are tie backs that that will have. And

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Speaker 1: then when you begin to look at the saw as

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Speaker 1: it manifests itself on the bone, these hard surfaces. I

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Speaker 1: recommend to anybody that's that's sawing something at home, like

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Speaker 1: you're sawing a piece of wood, maybe a limb. Um

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Speaker 1: when you look at it, there's a distinctive mark that

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Speaker 1: is left behind by that blade, and you might look

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Speaker 1: at it and say, you know what, I'm looking at this?

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Speaker 1: They all look the same, Trust me, they're not um.

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Speaker 1: With most dismemberment cases, we have what are referred to

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Speaker 1: as stop starts. First off, the person is not very um.

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Speaker 1: We hope that nobody is very proficient at dismemberment, but

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Speaker 1: they don't really know where to begin. And the fact

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Speaker 1: that most people that commit dismemberment or perpetrate dismemberment um

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Speaker 1: they don't go to a joint. They'll go specifically to

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Speaker 1: the shaft of a bone, and every time you draw

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Speaker 1: that blade across the bone, you have to reset it,

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Speaker 1: so you'll have multiple little marks on the bone. And

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Speaker 1: these are referred to by some a stop starts. And

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Speaker 1: so you get this these multiple little fingerprints from the

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Speaker 1: saw that you will and then the one that you

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Speaker 1: finally decide on where you start a groove that's gonna

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Speaker 1: leave microscopic impressions of the blade as well. So again

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Speaker 1: talking about tie backs, that's one of the things from

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Speaker 1: an evidential standpoint that we're looking for with the saw,

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Speaker 1: and you can match the saw up to the injuries

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Speaker 1: that are left behind. The trick, however, is putting the

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Speaker 1: saw into the hand of the perpetrator in this case

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Speaker 1: we'd be talking about Charlton. One of the things that

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Speaker 1: strikes me about using this type of a weapon because

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Speaker 1: it is so coarse. The blade is very coarse. It's

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Speaker 1: not a fine tooth to instrument. It's not designed to

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Speaker 1: make a clean cut. So what I'm seeing here is

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Speaker 1: that this is going to be a very messy seen.

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Speaker 1: Charlton would have been covered in blood and tissue. I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess that he could have been covered in uh,

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Speaker 1: in blood and tissue. It would appear, though, Jackie, that

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Speaker 1: he at least had the thought to do this in

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Speaker 1: the bathtub. Remember that's where a goodly amount of this

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Speaker 1: evidence was found. Um. And this is not like a

334
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Speaker 1: blunt force event where you're slamming down onto something and

335
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 1: you've got all kinds of blood staining. That's that's occurring, uh,

336
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 1: you know, at a low or medium velocity. Here. What

337
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,680
Speaker 1: you're looking at, though, is containment in this particular area.

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Speaker 1: And I'm glad that you you mentioned the brutality of this, because,

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00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, those teeth are very robust. If you will,

340
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 1: I mean there when you you can look at it,

341
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Speaker 1: even if you go to a hardware store and you

342
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Speaker 1: see one of these saws hanging on the wall there,

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Speaker 1: it's it's markedly different, say, for instance, than like the

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Speaker 1: the saws that we use in the autopsy runt, which

345
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 1: are striker saws. I mean, how many of us have

346
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Speaker 1: watched one of these shows and they've you know, one

347
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 1: of these TV shows where they they'll make that that

348
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:31,679
Speaker 1: loud pitch, humming noise when some actor, this portraying of

349
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 1: friends of pathologists goes to open the body. Uh, those

350
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Speaker 1: are bone saws that you hear. It's real high pitched,

351
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,159
Speaker 1: and those are called agitating saws. And the teeth are

352
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Speaker 1: very refine. They're actually even finer than like a hack saw. Um,

353
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Speaker 1: but they still kick up dust, they still leave marks behind.

354
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Speaker 1: With a pruning saw like this, it's so very robust

355
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 1: that it's gonna be very distinctive in the marks that

356
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 1: are left behind. And one of the things that that

357
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,880
Speaker 1: you have to consider in a case involving I dismember

358
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 1: is the fact that, um, you know, in in medical terms,

359
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 1: when let's say a doctor is going to do an amputation,

360
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: when they do an amputation, they don't just pull out

361
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 1: a saw and take the person's limb off. That's not

362
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 1: how it's done. It's a it's a surgical procedure. So

363
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 1: you're gonna start off by utilizing a sharp instrument, a

364
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 1: very sharp instrument like scalpel. You have to get through

365
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 1: the tissue to get to the impacted place. That's not

366
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 1: what happened here, Jackie. We're talking about an individual that

367
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: wielded a pruning saw that apparently went through tissue that

368
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: it's not meant to go through, all right, That's what

369
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: makes this so gasly. That's why you'll have tissue caught

370
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: up in the teeth. That's why tissue is kind of

371
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 1: flushed down the drain in this case. If you will, Um,

372
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: he's using a saw that's normally meant to cut through

373
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Speaker 1: a solid surface like a tree limb, to go through

374
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Speaker 1: a layer of skin and a layer of muscle, multiple

375
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 1: layers and muscle. If you're talking about something like, uh,

376
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 1: the long bones in the legs, you know, you get

377
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: up around the femur in that area, you're gonna have

378
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: to go through muscles like the thigh and uh that

379
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: are contained within the glutes, all those sorts of areas. Um,

380
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 1: And so it's gonna capture a lot of tissue in

381
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: that case, very coarse way of doing things. But Joe,

382
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,120
Speaker 1: you're talking about, um, the bits of skin and tissue

383
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: and the blood being in the bathtub. So obviously, as

384
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: you mentioned before, a lot of that went down the drain.

385
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 1: That's potential evidence that could be gone. What do you do,

386
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: how do you recover or can you that evidence? Yeah,

387
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: that's a fantastic question. Um. I urge everybody at home

388
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 1: to go to like your your bathroom sink, for instance,

389
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 1: because you can appreciate it this way very easily, or

390
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 1: even your kitchen sink and look look beneath and you'll

391
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 1: see the curved nature of the drain pipe beneath. That's

392
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 1: called a trap down there, and they're set up for

393
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 1: I'm not a plumber, but they're set up for a

394
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 1: variety of different reasons. But they're air for a specific purpose,

395
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: and they're called a trap for a reason. So in forensics,

396
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 1: when we're working one of these scenes, such as the

397
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: inglrid Lend case, UM, we will take these apart. I've

398
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: participated in this because you're looking for specific evidence that

399
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: ties back to a specific event. And you know, look,

400
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: people do this, Uh, authorities do this in drug cases

401
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: as well, Jackie, when people are trying to watch things

402
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 1: down sceints and you know, things like that, and they're

403
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: trying to but in this particular case, we're talking about

404
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: human tissue and one of the first indicators. That's why

405
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 1: you have to be very very careful at crime scenes.

406
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,119
Speaker 1: One of the first indicators that they had at the

407
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 1: scene is that when they began to examine the tub,

408
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: and keep in mind, this pruning style was found immediately

409
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 1: adjason to the toilet, all right in the bathroom, which

410
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: it turned out later is where uh, where her remains

411
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: were dismembered. When they began to look at the drain

412
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: there in the bottom of that tub, they saw what

413
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: appeared to be a red substance there, I'm sure, and

414
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: as it turned out, it turned out to be blood.

415
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 1: But they had to go beneath and take the trap

416
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 1: out from beneath the bathtub, and when they did that,

417
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 1: they hit a motherload of evidence because caught in that trap,

418
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 1: that curved pipe beneath the tub, it's parent that Charlton

419
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: had attempted to wash away not just blood, but tissue

420
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 1: had gone in there. And so that tissue doesn't just

421
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 1: miraculously disappear because you can no longer see it inside

422
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: the tub. It's got to go somewhere. In this particular case,

423
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: they were able to find muscle tissue and skin tissue,

424
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: and they were able to find actually some semblance of

425
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: blood there. And and again when you pull that out.

426
00:25:50,119 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: Um that links back to Ingrid Lynn's body. I say

427
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: many times that, um, you know, us as investigators are

428
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: always having to observe the abnormal in the context of

429
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 1: the normal. You know, you begin to think about this home, uh,

430
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: that ingrad Lynn had created with her family. Um uh.

431
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 1: You know, the love that she extended to her children,

432
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: and this was a home that she had, and you know, uh,

433
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 1: you begin to think about the horror that took place

434
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: in here, and of course, you know, you pause for

435
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: a moment and it sets in the reality of what

436
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: you're observing and you begin to think, what would motivate

437
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: an individual to do this? And how could they do it? Jackie, Yeah, Joe,

438
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: I am really at a loss for understanding this as

439
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: well as you are, especially when we find out that

440
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: John Charlton had a criminal history and even his parents

441
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: were afraid of him. They had sought a restraining order

442
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: against him in two thousand and six, and that restraining

443
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: order was taken out because they feared their sons drunken

444
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: outbursts and saying that he had taken the movie Hannibal,

445
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: which if you remember, is about a serial killer, and

446
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: told his mother that she should watch it and beware.

447
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: Once Charlton was picked up, he told police that he

448
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: had been drinking so much that he could not remember

449
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: what happened. So I want to know, is that possible

450
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: drinking so much that you black out and drinking so

451
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: much that you pass out? And if he's drinking this much,

452
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: could he even do what we know he did? Two

453
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: ingrid Lynn, you know, most of us were familiar with

454
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: legal alcohol intoxication in you know, most states, and that

455
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: that turns out to be uh most and this is

456
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: kind of generalized, and it's varied from year to year

457
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: over the years, but it's generally about point zero eight.

458
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: And when we think about that, you think about, well,

459
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: what does it take to get someone into that state

460
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: where they are that drunk? For a man, it can

461
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: be about two to five drinks, and that's heavily depended

462
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: upon what type of alcohol you're drinking, um, you know,

463
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: the alcohol uh level, the level of the proof of

464
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: the alcohol as as to how much you're taking on

465
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: board at that particular time, and also uh levels of tolerance. Um.

466
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: You know, for somebody that's chronic alcoholic, you know, they

467
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: they can throw uh you know a lot of alcohol

468
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: and still be able to communicate and to function. They're

469
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: going to be impaired, but they can still you know,

470
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: kind of reason if you will. So there's essentially, you know,

471
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: like three stages are there's about five stages to to

472
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: being intoxicated or inebriated as some people say, you've got

473
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: you know, like where somebody is sober that's gonna fall

474
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: you know, anywhere, and that you know, that kind of

475
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: point zero one to point zero five level and you're

476
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: not you're not legally as they stay drunk at that

477
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: point in time. And then you get up into stage two,

478
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: which is what they deem as euphoria, where you know,

479
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: people are giddy, you know, they're kind of happy, grooving

480
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: along that sort of thing. But this is the danger

481
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: area when you think about driving impaired, and that's gonna

482
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: put you in that point oh three two up to

483
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: point one two uh in in uh intoxication. Now you

484
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: get up to stage three with this, and you're talking

485
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: about point nine point zero nine up to point to five,

486
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: and you'll have individuals that become impaired at that point

487
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: in time. Makes it very dangerous to drive. You're operating anything,

488
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: people get drowsy either you know, they're kind of swaying

489
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: back and forth, they can stumble. And then what Charlton

490
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: is implying is he was literally at stage four where

491
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: you get into this confused state and you're talking about

492
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: a blood alcohol level that's like point one eight up

493
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: to point three zero. Individuals that can't walk, they lose

494
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: their memory, they're not aware of anything, slurring speech. So

495
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: you're gonna tell me that this fella who is claiming

496
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: to be black out and knee walking drunk at this

497
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: point in time, is going to be able to handle

498
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: himself and these circumstances where he is going to take

499
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: a saw after mind you, after he strangles this woman, Uh,

500
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: he's going to take us all and methodically dismember her body.

501
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: And we're not talking about just in like a couple

502
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: of rough pieces. We're talking about multiple pieces. Reflect back

503
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: to the fellow that found found the first uh deposit

504
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: of remains he's left behind. There were four. He found

505
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: her head, he found a foot, he found a lower leg,

506
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: and he found an arm with a hand attached. That's

507
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: that's four pieces right there. That that requires some level

508
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: of motor skill in order to do that. And so

509
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: that's what's that's so what's so weird about his explanation

510
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: in this particular case. And then on top of that,

511
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: he's done this um packaging, if you will, of all

512
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: of these remains and driven around in her vehicle, mind you,

513
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: and deposited him at a variety of locations. And to

514
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: this day there are some of her remains that still

515
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: have yet to be recovered. I'm just I'm not buying

516
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: this explanation that he was so impaired by alcohol he

517
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: doesn't remember anything that that happened. He had, in my opinion,

518
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: at least cognitive behavior. Uh that that marries up with

519
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: somebody that can actually handle fine motor skills. You just

520
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: mentioned fine motor skills. Obviously everybody handles and processes alcohol differently.

521
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: But I I don't see how someone if he can't drive,

522
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: which he said that Ingrid Lynn drove them back from

523
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: the ball game, how could he do this? Yeah, you're

524
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: absolutely right, And you know, Okay, you're saying you had

525
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: alcohol board. Okay, I'm buying it. You had alcohol board,

526
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: You went a ball game, maybe you had a few beers.

527
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: Maybe you're in that euphoric state. Now you can say

528
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,239
Speaker 1: all day long that I was so drunk that ms

529
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: Lynn had to drive me back to her residence. Who's

530
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: going to dispute that, well ingrid Lynn is no longer

531
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: around to dispute that she's dead. And not only she did,

532
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: you dismembered her afterwards. So you know, that's the thing

533
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: about the dead. The dead can't speak up for themselves.

534
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: You can say anything you want to about the dead,

535
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: all right, and in this case, he did. He puts

536
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: this on her, that he's so drunk that she had

537
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: to drive him back, and he even mentioned that she

538
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: was acting weird at some point in time. So what

539
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: is it? Is she acting weird? Or are you so

540
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: drunk and impaired that you have little of no awareness

541
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: of your ability to operate a vehicle or to walk

542
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: and she's got to take care of you. But yet

543
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: you were able to understand or are to evaluate her

544
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: where you're applying this term that she's acting weird? What

545
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: does that even mean? So you've got kind of a tangled,

546
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: a tangled narrative that he's given here, And that's why

547
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: I'm not buying it, because it you know, what happened

548
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: was was that after after he had gotten her in

549
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: that house and he murdered her. He went into her kitchen, Jackie.

550
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: And we know this because the police found this. They

551
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: found a box. They found a box in her kitchen

552
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: of these translucent garbage bags, and every single bag originated

553
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 1: from that box that miss Lynn owned. And he took

554
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: bag after bag after bag after bag, and individually bundled

555
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: her remains, wrapped them up neatly. He even acquired at

556
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: some point in time a cooler. He some of these

557
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: remains were found a couple of days later in a cooler,

558
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: not just in the in the garbage bag that we

559
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: had talked about earlier, but he had deposed him in

560
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: a cooler along the roadside as well. And and not

561
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 1: to mention, some of her remains were actually found at

562
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: a recycling center. And you know, it almost seems, I

563
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: don't know, in some sick twisted way, almost providential that

564
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: they were able to even find her remains at all,

565
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: because at any one moment in time, someone could have

566
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 1: not have been paying attention to their surroundings and her

567
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: remains would have never been found. Potentially, now you could

568
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 1: go back to the house and see the what was

569
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: left behind in the drain and you know, the drain

570
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: trap that we're talking about and in the teeth of

571
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: the saw, and you know, his attorneys for a while

572
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,879
Speaker 1: we're saying, well, there's no forensic tie backs to him

573
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 1: relative to this event. Well maybe you can't say that

574
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: that they had anything that would tie him back. But

575
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: you know, at the end of all of this, the

576
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: reality is he's the only person that had been with

577
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: her that night. Uh, he purposed apparently to do this

578
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 1: because I don't know what happened that night. I don't

579
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: know if anybody will really know what happened that night.

580
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: I do know that at some point in time, um,

581
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: he took his hands and wrapped him around her neck

582
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,959
Speaker 1: and took the life out of her, strangled her to death,

583
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: and then he decided to completely destroy all that remained

584
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: of her. Well. Joe Ingrid Len's killer, John Robert Charles

585
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: and is now locked up. He pled guilty to Lenn's murder.

586
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: The judge in sentencing Charlton said she would lock him

587
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: up for life if she could. She sentenced Charlton to

588
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: twenty seven years nine months in prison, and that was

589
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: the harshest sentence that she could hand down. Thirty nine

590
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: year old Charlton pled guilty to premeditated first degree murder.

591
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: With this sentence, Joe Charlton can be out of prison

592
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: when he is sixty six years old. I agree with

593
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: the judge. I gotta say, I can't believe that this

594
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: is all of the time that that he got, because

595
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: you know what, when you look at this and you

596
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: see what he had done that night, Remember there was

597
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: a lot of thought that went into this on his part,

598
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: all right, you know, and this doesn't make it any better.

599
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: But if he had killed her in a crime of

600
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: passion and then just walked away, that's one thing. But

601
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: you know, you you see what he does does afterwards,

602
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: that's evidence of a depraved mind. And you give the

603
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: you give the the history going all the way back

604
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: to his parents. You know he's straight and his parents

605
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: parents had to get a restraining order on this guy

606
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: prior to this. And I know that you know that

607
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: act is not necessarily associated with with this particular horrible,

608
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: horrible event. But you think about that, this is all

609
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 1: he gets, and what did he do? Well, Yeah, he

610
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: killed this young woman. Then he dismembered her, disrespected her body.

611
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: But he not only killed her, he essentially killed a family.

612
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: Think about those three babies. You know she leaves behind,

613
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: think about her mama, even her ex husband who she

614
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: had a great relationship with, they were co parenting these babies.

615
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: He completely eradicated that by virtue of his decision at night.

616
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: And this is all the time that he gets. He

617
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: has life to be lived still, even if he is

618
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: let out, because he's he's going to be in his

619
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: early to mid sixties perhaps when he walks free out

620
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 1: of that out of that prison there in Washington. But

621
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: the what he's left in his weight, he is utterly

622
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: and completely destroyed. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this his

623
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: body backs