1 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Hey fam, Hello Sunshine. Today on the bright Side, we're 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: bringing data driven research to parenting and tackling all of 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: your biggest parenting questions with Emily Auster. She's an economist, 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 1: bestselling author, and the founder and CEO of parent Data. 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: Her book Cribsheet is a textbook on everything you need 6 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: to know about newborns through the preschool years. It's Thursday, 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: November fourteenth. 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: I'm Simone Boyce, I'm Danielle Robe and this is the 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 2: bright Side from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we 10 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 2: come together to share women's stories, to laugh, learn and 11 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: brighten your day. 12 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: Danielle, the topic of today's episode is really taking me 13 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: back to those early days coming back from the hospital. Mmm, 14 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: tell me more. Well, all of it is new, none 15 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,279 Speaker 1: of it is anything you've ever experienced before, so you're 16 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: kind of just like flying by the seat of your pants. 17 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: You're accepting help wherever you can get it, and I 18 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: think that is one of the hardest parts. It's like 19 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: knowing if you're making the right choice and knowing where 20 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: to take advice from, knowing who to take it from. 21 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 3: You know. I actually just went to brisk this week 22 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 3: and it's so exciting to see my girlfriends become mothers. 23 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 3: They step into this whole new personhood. It's a completely 24 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 3: new role, and you know, they're so emotional about it too. 25 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 3: And I've heard them talk about those first few months, 26 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 3: even the first couple of years. There's so much joy 27 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 3: and a lot of stress because of the unknown. There's 28 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 3: no textbook, and everyone has an opinion on how to 29 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 3: do it, including you know, the grandparents and the aunts 30 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 3: and uncles. And so today we're really going to aim 31 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 3: to take the guesswork out of parenting and offer some 32 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 3: research back tips to help you feel confident about the 33 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 3: decisions that you're making, or will make, or have made. 34 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 3: What's interesting to me is I'm not even a parent yet, 35 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 3: and there's a lot of things I'm curious about. So 36 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 3: joining us today is Emily Auster. Emily is an award 37 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 3: winning economist, a professor of economics at Brown University, and 38 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 3: New York Times bestselling author. Emily's also the founder and 39 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 3: CEO of parent Data, a data driven guide to pregnancy, parenting, 40 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 3: and beyond. 41 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: Emily has such an impressive body of work, So there 42 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: are so many different places that we could take this conversation, 43 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 1: but today we decided to hone in on her book Cribsheet. 44 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: Let's get into it, Emily Oustar, this feels so good 45 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: to say, welcome back to the right side. Thanks for 46 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 1: having me back. Well, we're so thrilled to have you back. 47 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 1: And today we're taking it all the way back to 48 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: the beginning with your book Crib Sheet, which is a 49 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: data driven guide to better, more relaxed parenting from birth 50 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: all the way to preschool. So we want to start 51 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: at the first three days. There's some pretty big decisions 52 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: that you have to make while you're still at the hospital, 53 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: which can be difficult because you're in this really strange 54 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: state of mind after giving birth. You focus on two 55 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: key decisions that new parents have to make, cord clamping 56 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: and skin to skin contact. Why are these two choices 57 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: so p So. 58 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 4: In the book, I wanted to focus on things where 59 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 4: there was a decision, but also where there's some data 60 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 4: to inform what you do. And these are two examples 61 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 4: of places where we have good data that suggests that 62 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 4: in these particular cases that delaying the cord clamping and 63 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 4: that having some early skinned skin can be beneficial. 64 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: And so it feels important for people to know what 65 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: are the benefits of delayed cord clamping. 66 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 4: So the idea behind delayed cord clamping is that you 67 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 4: take a little bit longer, you know, not like an hour, 68 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 4: but like ninety seconds before you clamp the abilical cord 69 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 4: or cut it, and that lets some of the blood 70 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 4: from the abilical cord go back into the baby, and 71 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 4: particularly for pre term babies, but even for full term babies, 72 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 4: this extra blood puts them at lower risk for anemia, 73 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 4: So that is the benefit there. 74 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 3: I've heard a lot about the importance of skinned skin 75 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 3: contact with the baby. Does it differ for men and 76 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 3: women at all? 77 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: So some of the. 78 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 4: Better evidence we have about this is in promoting breastfeeding success, 79 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 4: and so that is a place where, of course the 80 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 4: person breastfeeding would benefit the most. But there's also again 81 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 4: even stronger for pre term maybe's reason to think that 82 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 4: temperature regulation and neurological regulation can be affected by this 83 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 4: skin to skin contact, and that would be true for 84 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 4: men and for women. 85 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: So good from dad. 86 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 3: Also, what exactly is considered skin to skin contact? 87 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: Is there a duration? 88 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 2: No? 89 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 4: I think it's just often people try to get the 90 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 4: baby on skin to skin as early as possible, so 91 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 4: they start rooting around for the boob and then doing 92 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 4: some of that when it works for everybody is kind 93 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 4: of recommended. But it's not like you must do this 94 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 4: for an hour or everything is terrible right, or you 95 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 4: must do it all the time. 96 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: Okay, Next, we're moving on to some questions about bathing 97 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: your baby after they're born for the first time. What 98 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: do the data tell us about the right time to 99 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: bathe the baby? Really have to do that? 100 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 4: You know, there used to be this idea that you 101 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 4: would like wash the baby off and like before you 102 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 4: present it to the dad, you know, like you know, oh, 103 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 4: beautiful clean package. Oh wow, But we don't wash the 104 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 4: baby right away anymore. So there used to be that 105 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 4: would almost be the first thing, like the baby be 106 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 4: washed off and then given in this like wrapped up 107 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 4: clean package. But we now don't do that for some 108 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 4: of the skin to skin contact reasons. Generally there will 109 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 4: be some wiping off of the blood and other stuff 110 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 4: that gets on your baby. Sometimes babies will be bathed 111 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 4: in a tub bath at the hospital, and sometimes they 112 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 4: won't be. There's actually no particular reason that your baby 113 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 4: needs to have a bath for a while, and once 114 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 4: people are home, it's not like you have to bathe 115 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 4: them every day or every other day or even pretty much. Ever, 116 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 4: their hands will start to smell, so that's like a 117 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 4: good signal that maybe they should have a bath. They 118 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 4: get milk in their hands and then it like rots, 119 00:05:58,800 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 4: and then you can give. 120 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,799 Speaker 1: Them a bath. Once you smell the smell. 121 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 4: It's yeah, when they start of you and you like 122 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 4: open up their hands and it's kind of like coated 123 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 4: and sort of black, like rotted milk bathing, that's well, I. 124 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: Remember disgusting the two of you. This is not what 125 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: I imagined. I think the way that we did it 126 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: is we did the first bath whenever the umbilical cord 127 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: fell off yep, which is about two weeks. 128 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 4: And yeah, that sounds about that's when we did it. 129 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 4: It was so terrible we didn't do it again for 130 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 4: weeks and weeks. 131 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. I actually loved our first bath experience. But it's 132 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: a wild card. 133 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 4: For we have this video. There's like three adults, our 134 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 4: cat is involved. Oh gosh, like a total disaster. 135 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 3: Okay, dumb question, but why is the first bath such 136 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 3: a big deal? 137 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: Don't you just like do it in the sink? I 138 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: think it's sentimental. I think like you're you know, you're 139 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,559 Speaker 1: in postpartum, you just gave birth. There's something sentimental about 140 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: cleansing the baby for the first time. I don't know, 141 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: maybe I'm adding unnecessary meaning to it, but it did 142 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: feel like a milestone. 143 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 4: I feel like everything that is the first thing you 144 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 4: do with your first kid feels like yeah, and so 145 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 4: it's just like that's I don't remember the first time. 146 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 4: I could not tell you when we first bathed my son. 147 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 4: It could have been months after he was my second kid. 148 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 4: I just have no idea. 149 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: Oh, my first one, i'd actualely remember. Gets like, I 150 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: don't know, has he ever bathed? He's ten years old. 151 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. 152 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 3: Maybe one of my best friends just had a baby 153 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 3: and one of the things that she and her husband 154 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 3: have been talking about is fluctuating weight of the new baby. 155 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 3: What is the average amount of weight loss for an 156 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 3: infant that's normal? 157 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 4: Generally, for a breastfed infant, losing up to ten percent 158 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 4: of their birth weight is considered normal. So for the 159 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 4: first period after birth, there isn't a lot of milk. 160 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 4: It can take two or three days for milk to 161 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 4: come in. There's some colosterum early on but that isn't 162 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 4: a lot of calories, and babies will lose some weight, 163 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 4: and this is often quite anxiety provoking for parents, but 164 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 4: it is like a totally normal part of how the 165 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 4: system is set up. If there is more extensive weight 166 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 4: loss than that, sometimes you will be encouraged to supplement 167 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 4: briefly until the milk comes in. But for yeah, so 168 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 4: something up to ten percent is considered totally typical. So 169 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 4: they will weigh your baby when they're born. They'll weigh 170 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 4: them in the hospital. When you go to the pediatrician 171 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 4: at four days, they'll weigh them again. So this isn't 172 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 4: something where I think parents have to be like getting 173 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 4: on and off the scale and monitoring it. Your doctor 174 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 4: will let you know if there's a problem with weight 175 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 4: and talk to you about what to. 176 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: Do about it. All right, moving on to feeding, which 177 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: can be a huge source of stress and shame for 178 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: new moms. I think it's been really heartening to see 179 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: that the discourse around this topic has really expanded in 180 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: the last few years. In your book, you reference a 181 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: study from twenty fifteen from the Journal Pediatrics, and this 182 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: study was all about weight loss in breast fed infants 183 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: in the hours after birth. What did the findings tell us? 184 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 4: What we learn in this study is that there's variation 185 00:08:55,600 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 4: in weight loss across babies, but also across vaginal births 186 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 4: u is cesarean sections, with babies that are born by 187 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 4: cesarean section actually losing a bit more weight over time. 188 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 4: There's also we get a sense of just how common 189 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 4: a lot of weight losses and how quickly it happens. 190 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 4: So over the first four days, the average baby is 191 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 4: losing about eight percent of their body weight. So even 192 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 4: if you're not at ten percent, babies are losing a 193 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 4: substantial I mean eight percent of your body weight feels 194 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 4: like a substantial amount, and I think just really important 195 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 4: for parents to understand like that's typical and then it 196 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 4: should start coming back in the kind of that sort 197 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 4: of third day. 198 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: And what do the data show about supplementing milk supply 199 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: with formula the best way to do that. The data 200 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: is very encouraging about that. 201 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 4: So I think that many people worry that if you 202 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 4: supplement early on, it will ruin your breastfeeding relationship forever. 203 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 4: That just doesn't really show up in the data when 204 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,479 Speaker 4: we look at what happens in terms of breastfeeding success. 205 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 4: For people who are supplemented with a bottle or try 206 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 4: to supplement with a cup or some other method that's 207 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 4: supposed to be more preserving, it just doesn't seem to 208 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 4: matter for long term success. And I think that's really 209 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 4: important for people to hear because there is so much 210 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 4: pressure to breastfeed and this combination of feeling like I 211 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 4: have to breastfeed, but my baby's losing too much weight. 212 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 4: But what if I supplement and then this ruins everything forever? 213 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: We could just wade. 214 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 4: Dial down the anxiety there, like some way loss is normal, 215 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 4: but also if you have to supplement, it is absolutely 216 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 4: not the end of the world by any stretch. 217 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: Okay, we need to take a quick break, but we'll 218 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: be right back with economist and New York Times bestselling 219 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: author Emily Oster. And we're back with economist Emily Oster. 220 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 3: Emily, I'm always so curious about your own personal experiences. 221 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 3: I read that when you brought your baby home, Penelope, 222 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,559 Speaker 3: you broke down and you were crying in your basement. 223 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: It was a nice face. It wasn't like it. It's not, 224 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: but yes it was. I was crying in the basement. Well, 225 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: what were you feeling in that moment. 226 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 4: So there are two very vivid memories of this sort 227 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 4: of return home, one which was just very confused and 228 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 4: one which was very sad. So I remember we first 229 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 4: got home with my daughters, like bringing in the car 230 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 4: seat and being like, oh my god, what do I do? 231 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 4: Like I can't believe they let me take this thing home, 232 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 4: Like I don't know, I have no idea what I'm doing. 233 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 4: It's going to wake up, I don't know what happens. 234 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 4: And then there was this period a couple of weeks 235 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 4: in when I was so tired, and I think that 236 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 4: we under it's hard to conceptualize how tired you're going 237 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 4: to be at the beginning, and even sort of remembering 238 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 4: as a parent of an older kid, like it's hard 239 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 4: to put yourself back. 240 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 1: In that point. 241 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 4: But I was sitting in the basement just thinking I 242 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 4: will never feel rested again. That's it, Like I'm never 243 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 4: going to feel like I have rested again. And that's 244 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 4: a very depressing thought, particularly when you are very tired. 245 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the most encouraging piece of research that you've 246 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: come across about postpartum, Because when you're navigating it as 247 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: a new mom, it can feel like you're in this 248 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: wilderness where no one is going through it to the 249 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,719 Speaker 1: degree with which you're going through it, and it can 250 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: be a very isolating experience. 251 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 4: Encouraging wise, the thing I worry in some ways the 252 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 4: most about is when people's like true sort of postpartum 253 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 4: depression remains undiagnosed. I think some of the most encouraging 254 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 4: data is that if we did adequate screening of people, 255 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 4: a huge share of postpartum depression could be caught and 256 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 4: the outcomes once we find that someone has postpartum depression, 257 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 4: there are good treatment methods. You can take SSRIs while 258 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 4: you are breastfeeding. Absolutely, we can also think about other 259 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 4: kinds of non medication therapy, and so I think the 260 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 4: evidence is suggests that this screening, which is very simple, 261 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 4: very simple screening tools, that those can be effective. I'd 262 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 4: love to combine it with evidence showing that we can 263 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:08,719 Speaker 4: make sure that that gets to everybody and that even 264 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 4: people who are not going to a six week postpartum 265 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 4: visit are getting the help that they need. 266 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: There. Okay, feels like we need to do a whole 267 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: separate episode on postpartum, So we'll put a pin in 268 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 1: that one for now, But then we got to talk 269 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: about what happens in that transition when you bring your 270 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: baby home. Family members, friends are going to have a 271 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: lot of advice and tell you you should do this, 272 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 1: you shouldn't do that. First up, what does the research 273 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: say about swaddling? What should new parents keep in mind? 274 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 4: Swaddling is good when you swaddle, which is you know, 275 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 4: involves wrapping your baby up in fabric, typically a custom 276 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 4: mased s wattle blanket, because no one can actually do 277 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 4: it with a regular blanket, although I. 278 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: Think it is in principle possible. 279 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 4: But we know from research where they bring babies into 280 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 4: the sleep lab, we know that babies wake up less 281 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 4: if there's swat and we can they can actually see 282 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 4: this is like quite cool. They put all these sensors 283 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 4: on the baby and like video of them and so 284 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 4: you can see that, Like there's a thing that happens 285 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 4: where babies kind of wake up a little bit and 286 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 4: then sometimes they wake up more and then they start yelling, 287 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 4: and then sometimes they wake up a little bit and 288 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 4: then they go back to sleep, and that is more 289 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 4: likely to happen if they're swaddled. They're like less likely 290 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 4: to go from a little bit awake to a more 291 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 4: awake if they're swaddled. 292 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: So there are a lot of good reasons to do it. 293 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 4: And sometimes people will worry about their hips, but as 294 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 4: long as the swaddle is kind of loose around their hips, 295 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 4: which any of these standards swaddle blankets will be, then 296 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 4: that is not a concern. 297 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: What does the research tell you about these new devices 298 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: like the SNeW that are supposed to be these like 299 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: automatic uh swaddlers. 300 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 4: So the SNeW is an automated version of something where 301 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 4: we know the components of it work. So the SNeW 302 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 4: will like shush your baby and swaddle your baby and 303 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 4: just your baby and sway your baby, and we know 304 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 4: that many of those things do help the baby individually sleep. 305 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 4: This new sort of does it for you. We don't 306 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 4: have any good direct evidence that the SNeW itself is 307 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 4: better than not having the new. There's just like, isn't 308 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 4: a good randomized trial of that. But there are some 309 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 4: reasons to think that it would work. I would say 310 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 4: many people swear by it. You can rent them. We 311 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 4: should say you can rent them. They're very expensive, but 312 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 4: you're very expensive. 313 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: I think they're like over fifteen hundred dollars, but you 314 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: can rent them for the period that you would need 315 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: them for your baby. So it might be something that 316 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: you want to look into. Yeah, yeah, okay, Emily. 317 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 3: I have a lot of friends with babies, and they 318 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 3: all have very different philosophies on when they bring the 319 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 3: baby home what feels right to them in terms of 320 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 3: letting friends and family hold, touch, kiss, love on the baby. 321 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 3: I have friends who don't let me touch the baby. 322 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 3: I have friends who let me hold the baby right away. 323 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 3: I'm so curious what the research says about when it's 324 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 3: appropriate to introduce your baby to other people. 325 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 4: The main guiding principle here is that in the first 326 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 4: six to eight weeks, if your baby gets sick, even 327 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 4: with something that seems like just a basic virus, if 328 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 4: they get a fever, because there's a higher risk of 329 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 4: a bacterial infection. 330 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: They will need a spinal tap. 331 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 4: If your four week old baby gets a fever, the 332 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 4: recommendation is you take into the hospital and they will 333 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 4: likely be given a spinal tap to test for meningitis. 334 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 4: It's a safe procedure, but it's like really freaky and 335 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 4: sort of scary for a lot of people. So I 336 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 4: think a lot of the caution in this very early 337 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 4: phase is about just basic germ avoidance that you don't 338 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 4: want to risk someone getting your kid sick, and kissing 339 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 4: the baby's face is like an easy way to transmit germs. 340 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 3: So is there anything that parents can do to make 341 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 3: sure these early interactions are safer? 342 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 4: So one is like generally having people kiss your baby's 343 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 4: face is probably not necessary. 344 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, people hold the baby like they. 345 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 4: Don't need to kiss their face, don't let people visit 346 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 4: if they're sick. It's as a hard place to set boundaries. 347 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 4: But I think if someone shows up at your house 348 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 4: and they're like, oh, it's just a little cold, you 349 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 4: just shut the door and tell them I'm sorry you 350 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 4: cannot come in, and like that's obviously really hard to do, 351 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 4: but I think the most important thing, and then just 352 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 4: having people wash their hands. 353 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: Also, there's no rush. There's always this like fervor to 354 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: meet the baby when they're literally like a goblin out 355 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: of the womb. It's boring, like you can come in 356 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 1: eight weeks and it'll still be a tiny little infant. 357 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: That you could come in twelve weeks and it'll still 358 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: be a little cute baby that you can hold in snuggle. 359 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: So but if it's your parents. I will tell you this. 360 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,479 Speaker 1: If we have a third baby, I am probably going 361 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: to say no visitors for the first four to six 362 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: weeks because I entertained visitors with my second child, and 363 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: it was family, but I was in such a rough 364 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: emotional state that I was like trying in the kitchen 365 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: when the family is around, and I'm feeling this pressure 366 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: to entertain when all I needed to do was be 367 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: with the baby and take care of myself. And that's 368 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: my issue. It's not about excluding family members. It's about 369 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 1: making sure that the mom is taking care of herself. 370 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 4: And I think this is a place where you're where 371 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 4: absolutely there's like this sort of data piece, but then 372 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 4: there's also a preference piece, which is like who do 373 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 4: you want? Do you want your mom? Do you want 374 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 4: your mother in law? Like do you want your sister, 375 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 4: do you want your brother? Do you want nobody? And 376 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 4: that depends a lot on your family relationships and what 377 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 4: you're like, and a bunch of things that kind of 378 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 4: have nothing to do with data. 379 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: But also are really central. Yeah, totally. Next, we're going 380 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: to move into some developmental milestones. I can remember experiencing 381 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: some anxiety about making sure that my kids were hitting 382 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 1: their milestones when doctors say they should. We're talking about 383 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: things like rolling over, crawling, walking, even talking What does 384 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: the data tell us about kids who either hit these 385 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: milestone earlier or later? When should we actually have some 386 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: cause for concern. So there are. 387 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 4: Ranges for any given milestone that are kind of the 388 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 4: ranges outside of wish you would say like we have 389 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 4: some concern, But I think for many parents these ranges 390 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 4: are bigger than they think. So for example, the sort 391 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 4: of expected age range for a kid, for a sort 392 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 4: of normally typically developing kid to walk on their own, 393 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 4: is between like eight and eighteen months. 394 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: The average kid walks around a year. 395 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 4: But if your fifteen month old is not walking, that's 396 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 4: actually still within the range of normal. And most of 397 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 4: these milestones are really really broad ranges. 398 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: That's a big range. It's huge. 399 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 4: I mean, the difference between eight month old and eighteen 400 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 4: month old is like the eighteen month old will crush 401 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 4: them like a bug. And so it's sort of useful 402 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,479 Speaker 4: to think about that that range. If your kid is 403 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 4: outside that range, it's not that it is something to 404 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 4: panic about. It is worth talking to your doctor. And 405 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 4: that's kind of what your pediatrician. Pediatricians there for a 406 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 4: lot of things, but one of them is like, this 407 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 4: is something they're paying attention to. There are really good 408 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 4: ways to evaluate if it's something is going on that 409 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 4: you want to address. 410 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: There are really good programs that are helpful. 411 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 4: So I think we wouldn't be afraid of early intervention, 412 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 4: but we should also be aware that physical milestones have 413 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 4: a wide normalcy range, and like, just because your kid 414 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 4: walked at eight months, like, doesn't mean they're going to 415 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 4: the Olympics. I spent a lot of time telling people like, 416 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 4: your kid's not going to the Olympics, so just forget 417 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 4: thinking about it. 418 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:33,919 Speaker 1: But do people actually believe you? Because I don't know 419 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: that they do. 420 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 4: I have told this to people who themselves went to 421 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 4: the Olympics. Those people are like, oh, yeah, I know, 422 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 4: my kid's not going to the Olympics. So I feel 423 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 4: like those people believe me, Like you know, you're like, 424 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 4: who are you? 425 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 3: Yeah? 426 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: Yeah? Wait. 427 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 3: This is funny because in that vein in terms of language, 428 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 3: is an early talking baby a marker of a genius, 429 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 3: of a developmental genius. 430 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 4: Early talking is mildly coreally with sort of better reading 431 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 4: skills early but very mildly, very mildly, So they could 432 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 4: be geniuses, but the predictive power. 433 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: Is very low. 434 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 3: Are there any measures that parents can take to improve 435 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 3: language outcomes for their kids? 436 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, talking to them and reading to them. Those are 437 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 4: kind of the key things. We have, like reasonably good evidence, 438 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 4: particularly on reading that like having exposure to books and 439 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 4: reading to your kids has some positive benefits later. 440 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: How about when they're in the womb? 441 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 4: No, sorry, is this this is any classic example of 442 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 4: like overinterpretation of studies that aren't relevant. So there's like 443 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 4: this one study of college students where they played Mozart 444 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 4: and a college students did better on a test. So 445 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 4: first of all, that actually turned out kind of to 446 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 4: not even really be right even in that context. The 447 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 4: kids liked music in general, but like playing the pop 448 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 4: music was just as good as Mozart, But it also 449 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 4: turned into this whole genre like you have to like 450 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 4: play Mozart for your baby in the womb because they're. 451 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: Going to be a gene I've heard that. Yeah, that's 452 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: not that's nothing, don't I mean. 453 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 4: You could do that, but the data says, no, data, 454 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 4: this is not it's not. 455 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: Going to matter. 456 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 3: Okay, we have to take another short break, but we'll 457 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 3: be right back with Emily Oster. 458 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: And we're back with economist Emily Oster. All right, we're 459 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 1: going to bring this conversation home with a discussion of preschool. 460 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: Is there one preschool philosophy that you found in the 461 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 1: research is more effective than others? 462 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 4: No, it's interesting to talk about why that question is 463 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 4: really hard to answer, which is what would you want 464 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 4: to do to know the answer? Well, you'd want to 465 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 4: like randomize kids to different kinds of preschools. 466 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: That's pretty hard to do. You have to follow them 467 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: a long time. 468 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 4: Chances are any effects would be very small, so you'd 469 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 4: need a huge sample of people. This is like a 470 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 4: really expensive, very difficult to run study that most parents 471 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 4: would not be interested in participating in because most of 472 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 4: the time, people do not want to randomly choose where 473 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 4: their kid goes to preschool. They want to think about it, 474 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 4: or think about what works for their family, or actually. 475 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: Play a role. 476 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,360 Speaker 4: And so that recognition is both showing us why it's 477 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 4: really hard to study and why it's really hard to 478 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 4: evaluate preschools by comparing the kids who go to different 479 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 4: preschools because like the kids are different, their parents chose 480 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 4: those preschools for different reasons, whether it's characteristics of the 481 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 4: family or what they think works for their kids. So 482 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 4: we just don't have much evidence on like should you 483 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 4: do Montessori, should you do play bass, should you do 484 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 4: this or that? Like some early childhood education exposure does 485 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 4: seem to prepare kids a bit better for kindergarten. 486 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: And that's about it. We have laid out so many 487 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: impactful statistics, and we've dug into a lot of research, 488 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: but I also want to make sure that we're not 489 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: missing like the heart of this conversation, which for me 490 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: is like is speaking to the new moms and new 491 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: parents who are really in the throes of that anxiety. 492 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: And so you write this incredibly comprehensive book cribsheet, What 493 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: are the questions that parents brought to you after this 494 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: book came out? And or what are the common questions 495 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: that you hear from parents about this stage from birth 496 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: into PRESCHOOLI, if I had. 497 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 4: To summarize what parents are wondering in this phase, it 498 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 4: is am I doing it wrong? 499 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: Yeah? 500 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 4: And I think that the core, especially at the beginning, 501 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 4: in this sort of very overwhelming part of very new parenting, 502 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 4: it is so easy to feel like you are doing 503 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 4: it wrong all the time, Like every day is some 504 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 4: new opportunity to screw your kid up forever. 505 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: You have no idea what you're doing. 506 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 4: You're probably wrong, You're probably disagreeing with your partner because 507 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,159 Speaker 4: neither of you know what to do. But it's the 508 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 4: most important thing either of you have ever done, and 509 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 4: so you're very sure even though you have no idea, 510 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 4: And so it's just this is a really overwhelming. 511 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: Time, thinks. 512 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 4: Some of what I'm what I wish I could convey 513 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,199 Speaker 4: to people and try to convey a little bit, is 514 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 4: that there are a lot of right ways to do this, 515 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 4: and that doesn't mean there isn't a right way for you, 516 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 4: and so you should try to figure out what works 517 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 4: for your family, but you have so much flexibility within 518 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 4: that to craft something that will be great for your kid, 519 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 4: and so like, just because you're doing it differently from 520 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 4: someone else does not mean you're doing it wrong. Yeah, 521 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 4: that's what I wish people would hear more. 522 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 1: I think what you said about parents just wondering if 523 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: they're basically permanently messing up their kid, like that is 524 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 1: so real and universal and I can remember feeling that 525 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 1: too when you think about all the different choices that 526 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: new parents have to make, how many of these actually 527 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 1: do have the potential to influence our kids on like 528 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: a truly lasting, irreparable level. So in some ways the 529 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: years from zero to three are like the most important. 530 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 1: But when people talk about that, and we will say 531 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: that and we look at that in the data, really 532 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: what we mean is like, that's the time when it's 533 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: most important for your kid to have enough to eat, 534 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: a safe place to live, someone who loves them and 535 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: is paying attention to them, somebody's talking to them, not 536 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: being exposed to toxic stress in the household. If you're 537 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: hitting all of those things, you're doing great. And a 538 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: lot of the. 539 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 4: Stuff we layer on top of that is really just 540 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 4: there's different preferences for different. 541 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: Ways to do things. 542 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 3: Emily Oster, thanks for sharing all of this great information 543 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 3: with us today. 544 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us on the bright side. Emily, 545 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. Emily Astra is 546 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: an award winning economist, professor at Brownie University, and New 547 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: York Times bestselling author. Emily is also the founder and 548 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: CEO of parent Data, a data driven guide to pregnancy, 549 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: parenting and beyond. 550 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 3: That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're popping off with 551 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 3: the one the only pop culture anthropologist, Blake Lee Thornton. 552 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect 553 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram 554 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and 555 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 1: feel free to tag us at Simone Voice and at 556 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: Danielle Robe. 557 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 3: Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, 558 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 559 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: See you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side.