WEBVTT - Draft Show: How Good Is This Running Back Class? 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:08.360 This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Cowboys 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:11.000 on the your war room for in center news and 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:15.280 draft analysis from deep within the confines of Cowboys Headquarters 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:20.119 at the Star in Fresco, Dallas Cowboys Selectzikiel Elliott and 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:26.279 now your hosts Dane Brugler, David Hellman and Brian brought us. Well, 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:30.360 no David Hellman today here on the Draft Show. That's okay. 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:34.480 We always find capable scouts to come in and work 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:38.400 with Old Dame Brugler myself. Brian brought us here as 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:42.480 I mentioned, Dame Brugler to my right, joining us from 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.360 one oh five three The Fan, the Ben and Skin Show. 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:48.360 One of our scouting buddies, though he puts in the work. 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:52.040 Kevin kat Turner, welcome again, my friend. Yeah, thanks for 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:54.320 having me. And every once in a while, Dave Hellman 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.080 deserves a good week off, right. He's down there hanging 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:01.000 out with the Saints down there at Motagra Hardian he 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:03.280 is partying them up. So what we'll do, we'll do 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:07.039 our very best here today. Uh God, it just seems 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:09.800 like these weeks are flying by. We'll be an indie 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:11.400 before we know that. Being an indie at the end 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:14.000 of the month and looking forward to that. Last week, 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:15.200 we went through a little bit of the some of 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.080 the snubs and guys that should have been should have 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:22.000 you know, maybe had some considerations from National Scouting Group. 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.360 We kind of talked about those guys and why they 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:26.759 potentially got snub But it looks like a pretty good 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:30.160 combine list. So we're excited. The draft show will be there. 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:36.680 We will have shows. Uh, let's see it Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.880 Saturday from uh from the Convention Center there in Indy 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:44.399 with all the players and coaches and general managin stuff. 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.039 So we look forward to doing that today though, I'm 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:48.800 going to do a couple of different things. Uh. I 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.120 want to get in Dane. Your fumble list came out 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.880 for running backs. Yeah, my annual annual fund Fumble list. Yeah, 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:57.400 the fumble rates for all these college prospects. I went. 0:01:57.400 --> 0:01:59.640 I did the top thirty three, top thirty three running 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:01.640 backs in the class, all the guys invited, the combine 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.320 a few extras, but yeah, it's something I do every 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:07.720 year at this time. UH, and it's just interesting look 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:12.120 at how often these guys fumbled. Uh. And it's something 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.440 that you know, we care about interceptions for quarterbacks, right, well, 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:18.239 you know we should care as much for running backs 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.800 and the fumbles. And it's not a you know, a direct, 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.280 you know way to say how they're going to be 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:28.240 in at the next level, but it's a good view 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.560 of their ball security. How do you view these running 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:32.600 backs in this straft so far from what you've seen? 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.000 I mean, to me, there's the first tier, which is 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.959 Barkley and then Jones and what do you have them? Yeah, 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:41.120 I mean and then I mean Jones. I watched him 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.800 again on Saturday second viewing and felt better about him, 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.960 a lot better about him with guys, I need to 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.200 watch twenty sixteen. I mean, is that something that I 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.760 need to do for guys got banged up into Yeah, 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:55.840 he was definitely banged up this year. I mean the 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.520 Old Miss game. This year he was outstanding. He had 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:00.400 a he had a three or four game where he 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.240 was looked like he was back to twenty sixteen for him. 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.839 But yeah, he was better as a sophomore. I have 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:09.560 Carrie on Johnson as my RB three. I love it now. 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:12.280 See that's why I'm I'm I'm dancing right with you 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:14.440 there and again we talked about him and we talked 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:16.720 about guys. Yeah, I'm with you guys too, because I've 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:19.640 I've got Barkley number one, Jones number two, and then 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.400 I've got guys and Johnson back to back. Yeah, in 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.239 my overall board. So I'm right there with you. I 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:29.360 don't think there's much separation. Yeah, I tell you what, 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:31.400 I'm impressed if you want to go get a running 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:33.880 back in this draft. You know, I feel like you 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:36.160 could kind of go down through this thing. I mean 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:38.880 I even go down as far as with you know, 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:43.480 when Michelle Nick Chubb. We've seen what we saw with Penny. 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:47.240 I mean, there's there's depth at this draft, you know, 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:50.560 throughout the draft. I just think that every one of 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:53.640 these guys that I've looked at, I don't feel terrible 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.240 about drafting any of them. I Mean there's sometimes you 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.640 look at backs and you're kind of like going, nah, 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:01.720 you know, not that guy. I know, I mean, why 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:04.080 why that guy? But this group, I feel like that 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:07.120 if you took any one of these guys, you would 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:09.760 be pretty pretty good. Uh, you know, you'd have a 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:11.800 good chance to help in your team. And that's why 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.800 I've said, unless you know you're a team like the 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:18.040 Cowboys of the Jaguars last two years, who just need 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:20.720 that plug and play running back, right, The Cowboys took Zeke, 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.680 the Jags took four Nett you know where you know 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:26.080 it's kind of the last piece or you know something 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.520 that could really help the offense. You know, a team 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:31.120 like the Browns, but they need if so many need 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.600 areas up and down the roster. That's why I'm not 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.960 taking Barkley at one or four. I'm gonna wait until 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.960 thirty three or thirty five. Maybe trade use that pick 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:42.520 thirty three package of fourth and go up in the 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.680 late first round to get your running back, whether that's 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:49.120 Ronald with the USC running back, the Auburn running back, 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:50.360 that l is you running back, you know, whatever one 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:55.000 you want. So, yeah, it's the Barkley debate about running 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:57.160 back and how early he should go. It's definitely a 0:04:57.200 --> 0:04:59.000 big part of this draft. I feel like we did 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.200 this every year and then the last two years running 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:03.400 back goes at pick four or it kind of changes, 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.240 you know, dynamic. Yeah, And I want to mention this 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:08.520 real quick too, because I was reviewing your your fumble list. 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:10.520 If you're about to get into it, no, no, go ahead. 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.280 I was reviewing your fumble list yesterday, and I couldn't help, 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:15.680 but notice, you know, two of the Georgia running backs 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:19.039 right there, one you had blow average and then near 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.240 the bottom effects second worse than the entire list Sony Michelle. 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:24.720 And immediately thought to the semifinal game where he had 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.600 that huge fumble in the fourth quarter against Oklahoma that 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:32.080 nearly costs him the game. Sure, right, And with these 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:35.200 fumble lists, you know, I go back to their every 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:37.640 fumble they had in their career. Uh, you know, I 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:39.599 go back and watch it. Make sure it wasn't like 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:43.640 a cheap fumble like you know, like a mesh right, uh, 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:47.200 miscommunication with the quarterback or something like that. So make 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:49.479 sure it was a legit fumble. And you know, go 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:51.480 back and adam up through their career and make sure 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:54.200 they're all offense or not. I don't count special teams fumble, 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.560 so punt return, kick return, that kind of thing, just 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.800 to keep everyone on the same level playing field, so offensive, 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:02.320 and they are fumbles they had throughout their career. And 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:05.080 with Sony Michelle, you know, you go back and look, 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.640 and he only had two this year. So I think 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:10.240 if you're gonna look at a positive. He had the 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.559 second well, he had the second worst fumble rate among 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:14.320 the thirty three backs that I looked at, but the 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.560 improvement in right this season. Though. Over his career, he 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:21.719 fumbled once every fifty four offensive touches, which is terrible. 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.320 It's almost like once every two games or so. Sure, 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:27.120 but when you look at it by year by year, 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.360 he had five as a sophomore, three as a junior, 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.320 two as a senior. So you know, it got a 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.240 little bit better every year. And that's something good to see, 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.800 and that's something that is proper context when you talk 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.960 about this. Mark Walton, Miami running back, for example, he 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.280 didn't fumble the last two years, but he has a 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:47.080 very low fumble rate or high fumble rate, because he 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:49.920 fumbled five times as a freshman. So that puts that 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:54.320 number in the red flag category. So but nonetheless, I mean, 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:57.839 these fumbles, the fumble rates are interesting. I kind of 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:01.880 break it up into tiers. And so the top tier 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.880 guys like Darryl Williams from LSU, right, you fumbled once 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:07.080 every three hundred and fifty nine times he touched the ball, 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:09.200 had only one fumble in college. Let me ask you, 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.480 you guys this though, with these backs and what you've 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:13.680 seen the fumble rate, and I want to get into 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:15.640 every one of these guys, I really really do. I 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.119 want to kind of go through that. But the running 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:20.920 style we've seen from some of these backs men as 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:23.640 a physical group of runners. If you asked me the 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:26.600 way that the way that day, you know, and sometimes 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.760 running style has a way of of kind of uh, 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:32.440 you know, you get the ball a lot, you're physical runner, 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:35.120 you're spinning, you're trying to finish, You're trying to run 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:39.760 over people. I think you know it. Fumbles do worry me. 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.960 Fumbles do worry me. And especially you know with the 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.160 way in this day and age of any games you play, 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.720 especially in the NFL, the way turnovers dictate sometimes how 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.360 you play. But let's go through who who you? Who 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:54.240 you got is your as your guys there, Dane if 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:56.520 you couldn't and by the way, this is something you 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.160 tweeted out right, but if they follow your link, yeah 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:02.640 on DP Brewer. Uh. If you want to get this 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:04.440 list and go down through it, well, several of the 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:07.920 players we talked about at the top, Ronald Jones, Saquon Barkley, 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:11.360 carry On Johnson, they're all in the elite category, Okay. 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:15.040 I think anything above, you know, like one seventy five 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.680 or so is So if you're fumbling once every one 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:22.000 hundred and seventy five offensive touches, that's the elite category. Okay. 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:25.040 On the number that the threshold numbers, one seventy five, 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.360 that for elite category category, right. I think average is 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:31.120 about one hundred and twenty five around there. So as 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.320 long as you hit that one twenty five number, you're okay. 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:35.400 They were about a dozen backs in this draft that 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.080 hit that, but the elite category, Darl Darryl Williams as 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.199 a top LSU running back fumbled once. Ronald Jones is 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:43.000 up there. He's at two o seven, which is a 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.240 great number and really encouraging for a guy who's not 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:48.280 the biggest guy. I mean, he's probably about two hundred 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:51.080 and five pounds and a lot of you know what. 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:55.080 A finisher though, Mike up the gut runs yea, oh god, yeah, yeah, 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.679 he takes some contact there. Yeah. Saquon Barkley one hundred 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:00.000 ninety three and then carry On Johnson one hundred ninety one. 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.800 So those are outstanding numbers for three of the top 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:05.559 running backs in the draft. Then we moved down a 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:10.680 little bit. Mentioned Darius Guys's at one hundred, which you know, 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:12.920 a little bit below average, a little bit below average 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:14.840 than what you want. He needs to get that number 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:18.120 up and improved. Or Shad Penny's one oh five, another 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:21.400 player we've talked about as possible Day two pick U 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:23.880 and then kind of the below average numbers. Nick Chubb 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:27.240 is at ninety eight, Mark Walton, who I mentions at ninety, 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.880 nahem Hinz eighty six. Oh, I watched him the Nakram 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:35.600 Wadley sixty seven, h Kaylin Balage sixty six, and then 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:38.520 Sony Michelle fifty four, which is the second worst. And 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:44.400 like we said, he did get incrementally better, uh eliminating 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:46.360 the fumbles down the stretch, but is still he has 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:48.920 five in the last two years, and I think he 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.320 had what twelve over his career, So it's still something 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:54.439 that you need to pay attention to. You really liked 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.640 the Williams kid, don't you? From LSU. Yeah. I think 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:01.640 he's he's gonna have a better pro then he did 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:04.680 at LSU. Yeah, and he's not because of guys. Yeah. 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:06.760 Well yeah, it's it's funny because he was the he 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:10.120 was a highly rated recruit. Yeah four years ago. But 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:13.800 he was a second running back recruit in Louisiana. But 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.400 the number one running back recruit was Leonard Fournette. Yeah, 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:18.360 and so because of that, you know, he kind of 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.440 went overlooked. He was stuck behind Fournette, then he was 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:24.000 stuck behind Geis and but anytime he got a chance 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.920 to step up, he did. Uh. And he he's reliable 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.400 catching the ball in the backfield, doesn't phone ball, doesn't 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.080 put the ball in the ground, pass pro Uh. He's 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.520 not the most dynamic, explosive runner, but he gets what's 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:39.360 blocked for him. I mean, I think he could be 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.120 a ideal third down back. I'm not going to compare 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:44.520 him to a guy, but you know, everything with Kamara 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.360 on the way he burst onto the scene, you know, 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:49.600 and I'm not but I'm saying a guy that can 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:54.160 do everything right. But could he be again, I'm not 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.880 saying the same player, but could he be for somebody 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.559 like what Kamara was for the Saints? Could he be 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.760 a guy that is spells you know, it comes as 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:07.600 a backup. Uh, you know it's a guy that you said, block, catch, 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.080 you know, all those positive things. Could he be a guy, 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.280 uh that someone uses like that, like Kamar, like the 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.640 Saints use Kamara. I think he's maybe he's not just explosive. 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:19.240 I don't think, I mean, And that's why I'm not 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.000 trying to compare the players. I'm just saying that what 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.800 teams think about the second back, right, That's kind of 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:27.840 what I'm asking there, right, And I think a guy 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.760 like maybe like a Rex Burkhead and of England, like 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.640 you know, like to what you're saying, the versatility, Yeah, 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:36.480 that's kind of what I was. Yeah, where you could 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:38.240 you could put him in a slot, you could, you 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:40.120 could do a lot different things with him as a 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:42.920 pass catcher, as a blocker, as a rusher. Uh. You know, 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.080 he's not gonna hurt you out there, right, and you know, 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.439 kind of like a Rex Burkhead, He's not overly dynamic. 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:51.319 He's not going to necessarily be a guy that defenses 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:54.240 have to game plan for. But again, he's not gonna 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.080 hurt you out there, and he can help your football team, 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.400 is he? Are we talking kind of early day three 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:00.200 type of guy things, and which is kind of the 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.640 area where you see a lot of these I'm not 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:04.400 saying that he's that because I haven't seen him yet, 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:06.800 But like specialty type guys, I think back to last 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.120 year the Tarikko on types, you know, the late third round, 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:14.480 early fourth round for Donel Pumphrey. Yeah, you know, yeah, 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:16.880 I think about those type of guys. Yeah, no, I well, 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.360 I think he's like I liked Pumphrey. I think he's 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:21.320 a better player than Pumphrey. And I'm not saying because 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.600 of LSU bias or anything like that. I'm just saying 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:28.360 it overall. Even Pumphrey led the world in yards and 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.000 all that stuff like that, this guy, this guy's got 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.760 some abilities tiny and he got hurt in the NFL 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.960 though he have that. Yeah, he mentioned Carrie on Johnson 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.400 a little bit. Oh yeah, well talk about him a 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:41.720 little bit. The Auburn running back man. I enjoyed watching 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:43.680 him esterday. It's kind of weird how he's built. I 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:45.760 didn't really realize that, you know, I'm just watching the 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:47.880 games during the season with Auburn. I didn't realize how 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:50.400 kind of he's not tall, but he looks tall. It 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.760 looks like, yeah, yeah, he does yeah high hips, he 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.840 runs long legged. He's really upright the way his style 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.000 is too. But he's a finisher though. I mean you 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:01.120 could watch him. I mean knees but go ahead, I'm 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:02.680 just the way you would kind of take the ball. 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:05.400 And his first couple of steps reminded me of de 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:07.559 Marco Murray. Oh this kind of looked like just kind 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:11.360 of long legs. Yeah, I mean that's that's I loved everything. 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.480 I thought there was good patience, good vision, and real tough. 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:16.640 I mean yeah, you see guys get hands on him 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:18.560 and he's running through content. I saw a lot of 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.240 inside runs with him, yeah, you know, and him having 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:24.000 to fight through you know, running I mean, and and 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:26.600 he's got these subtle moves too for kind of a 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.240 long legged looking guy. Yeah. Yeah, he's I mean, I 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.880 will saying it's plant and he makes a lot of 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:35.360 guys miss in space. I hate, you know, bringing up 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:37.400 the name, but Levion Bell. Do you see a lot 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:41.000 of that, because that's fair, it's because of what you're saying. 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:44.680 The patience, yeah, I mean he allows the blockers to 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.440 do their job. He's very good with his vision to 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:49.760 understand what the defense is trying to do, and then 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.200 he picks his spots and he goes And when you 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:55.480 first watch him, like I didn't, I didn't really expect much. 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:57.839 I really wasn't that impressed. But then like the more 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:00.760 you watch him, you realize, like, you know, this work works, Like, yeah, 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:02.880 he really understands what he's doing out there. He's not 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:06.880 the most graceful between the tackles, but yeah, he maximizes, 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.120 maximizes each run. And I've said this before, but he 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:12.640 might be the toughest running back I've ever scouted in 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:16.280 terms of pain tolerance, getting beat up and shoulder right. 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:18.960 Dealt with that shoulder. He's too tiny. It's still going 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.720 out there and you know, giving everything he has to 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.400 help the offense. So I mean, carry on Johnson. To me, 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:27.480 that's one of the reasons why he's a top four 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.160 back for me and fighting to be that number three 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:33.680 guy behind Barkley and Jones. See that's you know, you 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:37.520 watch him play and the offense is really is it's 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.160 it's you know, it's a college offense though with I 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:42.480 mean they'll spread you out and stuff, but the way 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:47.960 that is, it's Stillman's the quarterback Stitman Stidham, Jared Stidham, 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.320 Stidham Stidham. He'll he'll take the snap and he'll put 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.880 the ball right there. And it's like it's okay, somebody 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:57.560 go get the in. It's slow, slow, and then they 0:14:57.640 --> 0:14:59.280 and then he gets the ball and the next thing 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.040 you know, he's he's like in the secondary. I mean, 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:04.400 it's that like you said with DeMarco Murray, it's kind 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.600 of like very slow starting and then all of a 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.760 sudden he's covering ground. And I see that with what 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:12.800 he's saying with Bell too, though. Yeah, you could see 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.600 the cuts and just the shiftiness is there. And let 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:17.120 me ask you about this because there's another guy in 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.560 that backfield but I haven't seen yet as pet Way. Yeah, 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.320 what do you think about him? He's basically a mack 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:24.480 truck who just tries to run over you. And again 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:28.320 he's he's a Mike Tilbert. Yeah, I mean he's see 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:30.160 what he wighs in at the combine. I expect somewhere 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.280 two forty to two fifty in there, and uh, not 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:35.880 a game breaker by any means. But you know, I 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:38.960 have a late round guy, um, a guy that's you know, 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.360 gonna run over you more than do anything else. But 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.720 he actually came in low on the my Fumble chart. 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.280 He had quite a few fumbles. Yeah, he had a 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.000 fumble every fifty eight touches, so that's a number he 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:51.680 needs to him. I mean, we shouldn't go on that 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.200 way in the NFL, Like, there's very few teams the 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:56.080 Cowboys are being one of them, really rely on one 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.560 running back. But there's very few teams now really rely 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:00.440 on one guy. If you look at this, Yeah, and 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:02.800 now you go to college, you LSU and Georgia and 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.440 Auburn right there, and there's other teams that have, you know, 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.040 two running backs. You know. I think the Saint I 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:10.360 think the Saints the way they played this year was 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.160 a wake up call for a lot of people. Yeah, 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.160 you hope, you know, I mean in a way, and 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:16.840 you know, maybe it's a it's a day where Kamara 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:18.800 will will take over, but I think that you do 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:20.840 have to have a couple of different players to play 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:22.560 this thing. Well, I see, And that's the thing with 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:26.280 Kamara is you say you made him the feature runner, 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:29.600 he wouldn't be the same back. He wouldn't have to guy, right, 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:31.880 I mean he I mean, could he do it, probably, 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:33.240 but he wouldn't. I don't think you'd have the same 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.760 impact because you have mark Ingraham as your bell cow 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:40.200 the guy that's uh, you know, forcing defenses to respect 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.240 the run. But they have Kamara that you can work 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:44.640 into the mix, who is just as capable, you know, 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:46.960 taking handoffs and running it up the gut. But you 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:49.840 flux him out, you you know, use him as a 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:53.440 decoy on some plays, use him as a target. Where 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.640 he landed was just a perfect fit for his skill 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.080 set and the way they use him. And so you 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:02.160 know it's not too say, you know, Kamara's just a 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:04.480 product of that system. He's he's a very good player, 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.359 but the way he's used with Ingram is important for 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:10.000 his overall impact. And I think you can say that 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:11.720 about some of these other running backs. You know, not 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:14.920 every running back is meant to be that bell cow runner, right, 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:17.119 and you just have to understand what he's used for. 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.359 I got like Nihim Hines, who I mentioned Fantasy State. 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.640 Yes he's not. I don't see him as every down, No, 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:24.720 that's not who he is. I think he's to me, 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:28.560 he's like a James White for uh the Patriots, where 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.880 he can help you as a rusher, receiver, returner. Uh. 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:33.440 You know you kind of have to move him around. 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.359 So you know, there's every running backs a little different, 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:40.280 and I think more teams should build their backfields similar 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:42.640 to what the Saints have done. Yeah, I think that's 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:44.840 a I think that's a great way to look at 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:48.200 these uh, these running backs. I think, hey, find the guy, 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:50.680 find if you know, if a guy fits. I don't 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.400 think you know, phasing out right, oh you don't need 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:56.080 running back. No, I think that it's an important piece 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:58.920 to what you're trying to do offensively in this day 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:00.479 and age, especially if you get a guy that can 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.399 run and they can and also catch, right. You know 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:05.920 Leo teams who were in the Super Bowl this year, Yeah, 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.760 they use multiple running backs all year long. Now, highest 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:10.879 drafted running back and the Super Bowl was like the 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.879 fourth round. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's not to 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:15.679 say that you can't get a running back early, but 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:18.119 you don't have to. You know, you can get those right. 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.480 Corey Clement was he was undrafted. I think James White 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:23.200 was the fourth round of Rex Burkhead was a Day 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.840 three Pickie was a fourth and fifth rounder. So yeah, 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:28.879 you know, you can get these running backs later and 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.439 you can build the backfield kind of you know, to 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:33.080 fit your strengths as an offense. And that's what the 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:35.760 Cowboys at done was Zeke u. It took a high price, 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.240 and I think the payoff is there so far when 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:41.520 he's on the field, but just goes to show you 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:43.080 you don't have to do it that way. And as 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:46.000 quick aside, I think reminder real quickly the Zeke thing, 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:47.639 which I was all on board for, I think we 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.280 should always never forget that Romo was supposed to be 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:52.200 the quarterback this year. Yeah, and the whole thing was 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:55.240 let's go win one for Romo, right. The fastest way 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:56.520