Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to
Speaker 1: the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile
Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light
Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on
Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by Matthew Schultz and Peter Costantakus
Speaker 2: to discuss logistics and tactics for planning a whitetail adventure
Speaker 2: in canoe country like the Boundary Waters or other similar
Speaker 2: lake filled wilderness areas. All right, welcome back to the
Speaker 2: Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light
Speaker 2: and their Camera for Conservation initiative. And today we're continuing
Speaker 2: the Whitetail Adventure series that we kicked off last week.
Speaker 2: The idea here being to look at different unique ways
Speaker 2: that you can experience a whitetail hunt and an adventure
Speaker 2: one and the same. You know, your white tail hunts
Speaker 2: don't always have to be going on the back for you,
Speaker 2: sitting in the same old, same old tree and shooting
Speaker 2: that buck you've had on camera for three straight years. Right,
Speaker 2: that can be fun. I like that just as much
Speaker 2: as the next guy. But I think there's also a
Speaker 2: time and a place for getting outside of your comfort zone,
Speaker 2: expanding your boundaries, trying new things, trying a new adventure,
Speaker 2: something that's outside of the norm. And so this month
Speaker 2: that is what we're exploring. Some wilder ways to whitetail hunt.
Speaker 2: Last week we talked about floating rivers for bucks. This
Speaker 2: week we're talking about canoe country. Now this is kind
Speaker 2: of adjacent that was river flows. This is going to
Speaker 2: be more lake country. So planning a whitetail adventure an
Speaker 2: expedition in these wild areas full of lakes, like the
Speaker 2: Boundary Waters of northern Minnesota or northern Wisconsin, maybe the
Speaker 2: Adirondecks of New York. There's a whole bunch of regions
Speaker 2: like this across the entire United States. I could see
Speaker 2: you doing this in reservoir systems down south too. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of great, big wild places with incredible water
Speaker 2: access through lakes and reservoirs. How do you plan that
Speaker 2: kind of hunt? What kind of gear do you need,
Speaker 2: what kind of tactics work, what kind of approach, what
Speaker 2: kind of plan do you want to have in place?
Speaker 2: That is what we're going to talk about here today,
Speaker 2: and my two guests are folks who have a lot
Speaker 2: of experience with this kind of thing. There are two
Speaker 2: diehard hunters and residents of a region just outside of
Speaker 2: the Boundary Waters Elia, Minnesota. They live and breathe this
Speaker 2: stuff and have a ton of experience pulling off incredible
Speaker 2: trips into these places to hunt, fish, canoe and just
Speaker 2: have a darn good time. So my guests today number
Speaker 2: one are Matthew Schultz, the program manager for Sportsmen for
Speaker 2: the Boundary Waters, and Peter Costantikus, the owner and operator
Speaker 2: of Boundary Waters Outfitters. So that's the game plan as
Speaker 2: I discussed to talk about, you know, how to plan
Speaker 2: this kind of trip, so logistics, gear, all that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff, and then actual tactics for hunting, so how
Speaker 2: to use water access to hunt, how to find deer
Speaker 2: in these kinds of big woods areas, specifically kind of
Speaker 2: the Northern Lake country. We talk about habitat types, topography,
Speaker 2: the types of setups that might work, calling tactics and
Speaker 2: regions such as this. So you're gonn get some hunting ideas,
Speaker 2: You're gonna get some planning and camping and expedition ideas.
Speaker 2: And I think maybe more than anything, You're gonna get
Speaker 2: some inspiration to pack a canoe, throw a canoe up
Speaker 2: on top of the truck, and get out there. Try
Speaker 2: something new today. So, without any further ado, let's get
Speaker 2: to my chat with Matt and Peter. Hey, guys, I
Speaker 2: got to interrupt you. Before we get to my chat
Speaker 2: with Peter and Matt, I have an emergency update for you.
Speaker 2: The region that you are about to hear about from
Speaker 2: Matt and Peter, the Boundary Waters Canoe area of wilderness,
Speaker 2: is being threatened once again. Just as of today, the
Speaker 2: day before this podcast drops, we have gotten word that
Speaker 2: a serious threat is back on the table for this region.
Speaker 2: Now you're gonna hear soon from Peter and Matt about
Speaker 2: how special the Boundary Waters are, about what an incredible
Speaker 2: place this is for hunting and fishing and camping and canoeing.
Speaker 2: And at the end of the chat, Matt's going to
Speaker 2: explain to you what types of threats have faced this region,
Speaker 2: in particular a mind that has been proposed right on
Speaker 2: the edge of the wilderness. And you're gonna hear about
Speaker 2: how hunters and anglers and other recreators over the last
Speaker 2: handful of years have been able to make a big
Speaker 2: enough of a stink to get folks to put an
Speaker 2: end to it. Within the last couple of years, a
Speaker 2: moratorium was placed on mining within this area, so the
Speaker 2: Boundary Waters were safe as of I think it was
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three now as of today, so this is updated.
Speaker 2: Since we recorded this podcast, a new bill has been
Speaker 2: introduced that would call for the removal of those protections
Speaker 2: and allow for the fast tracking of these minds to
Speaker 2: happen once again. This new law is the Superior National
Speaker 2: Forest Restoration Act. This would remove those protections, like I said,
Speaker 2: and with Republican control the Senate and the House and
Speaker 2: the Presidency, this thing is very likely to pass if
Speaker 2: we don't do something about it. So I hope that
Speaker 2: after you listen to this chat, you will go and visit.
Speaker 2: Let me see the website. Here is Sportsman BWCA dot org.
Speaker 2: That's the Sportsman for the Bounder Waters website where you
Speaker 2: can learn more about this region and how we can
Speaker 2: take action. Let our voices be heard to once again
Speaker 2: fight the good fight for the Bounder Waters to make
Speaker 2: sure we can keep this place healthy, clean, accessible and
Speaker 2: thriving with wildlife and fish. So we can go out
Speaker 2: there and enjoy them. All that said, now we can
Speaker 2: get to my chat with Peter and Matt and please
Speaker 2: visit Sportsman bw c A dot org afterwards and let
Speaker 2: your voice be heard. All right with me on the
Speaker 2: line now is Matthew Schultz and Peter co Stanikus. Did
Speaker 2: I get it to Costantikus? I got it all right?
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you guys for joining me here today.
Speaker 3: Thanks Mark.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm excited about this one because we're in the
Speaker 2: middle of a series right now on the podcast exploring
Speaker 2: ways to add adventure to your whitetail hunts. There's there's
Speaker 2: kind of been a little bit of a narrowing of
Speaker 2: what most people think about when they think about whitetail hunting. There's,
Speaker 2: I don't know, there's a rut that allow of us
Speaker 2: are falling into, and so I wanted to start chatting
Speaker 2: with folks about ways that there are white tail adventures possible.
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people I think, imagine going
Speaker 2: to Alaska if they want an adventure, or chase an
Speaker 2: elk out west or something like that. But but really
Speaker 2: there's ways to do that in whitetail country too. And
Speaker 2: it seems like you guys have been able to experience
Speaker 2: kind of one of those pinnacle experiences of which I've
Speaker 2: been able to dabble. I've gotten had up there a
Speaker 2: couple times. But give me, give me your pitch, and
Speaker 2: I guess I'll start with you, Matt on the appeal
Speaker 2: of a canoe country white tail adventure in a place
Speaker 2: like the Boundary Waters or similar. What's what's the appeal
Speaker 2: to this kind of thing?
Speaker 4: I think one thing I tell a lot of people
Speaker 4: is that the canoe is one of the most efficient
Speaker 4: modes of transportation for a hunter or an angler, purely
Speaker 4: because you can fit all your stuff in it and
Speaker 4: you can carry it literally anywhere. And so when you
Speaker 4: look at a map, take Superior National Forest for instance,
Speaker 4: we're talking about millions and millions of acres and it's
Speaker 4: so intimate and dating. When you look at that, you're like,
Speaker 4: how am I going to get in there? Where I'm
Speaker 4: looking at white tail spots that are five miles in
Speaker 4: the back country. Well, that canue can literally take you
Speaker 4: anywhere in that spot. And you know, if you're willing
Speaker 4: to accept the adventure aspect of it and carry that
Speaker 4: canoe on your back, it's pretty limitless, and so I'm
Speaker 4: approaching a hunt from that.
Speaker 3: Aspect knowing that it's just so limitless.
Speaker 4: It's a lot like mountain hunting, where if you can
Speaker 4: go wherever you have the strength of courage to go to.
Speaker 3: And that's what's so appealing to me, at least what
Speaker 3: the canoe is. It's just endless.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what about the particular region that you live
Speaker 2: and spend so much time right there around the Bounder Waters.
Speaker 2: I mean, I have a hard time finding the right
Speaker 2: words to describe how special the Boundary Waters are without
Speaker 2: feeling an entire book. I mean, I've had some really
Speaker 2: profound experiences out there, and just a couple times i've been,
Speaker 2: You've spent, you know, exponentially more time than I have.
Speaker 2: The appeal to that region.
Speaker 4: Well, first off, I think just geographically it's really unique.
Speaker 4: It was carved by the glaciers billions of years ago,
Speaker 4: and so one thing that I like to note when
Speaker 4: I'm on it, whether it's a fishing trip in the
Speaker 4: Boundary Waters or hiking orhunting or whatever, is that the
Speaker 4: topography changes so much, so you'll be paddling along cliff
Speaker 4: sides and then all of a sudden you're in a
Speaker 4: fast moving river and now you're in a muskeg and
Speaker 4: it's constantly changing, which is something like really exciting for me.
Speaker 4: I find that to be a huge driver for that
Speaker 4: particular region.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful, that's for sure. What about you, Peter,
Speaker 2: what's your pitch to focus on why this kind of
Speaker 2: trip and why this area in particular is so special.
Speaker 5: Well, the boundary waters in particular, kind of spinning off
Speaker 5: what Matt said, the canoe gives you the ability to
Speaker 5: access areas that ninety percent of people aren't going to
Speaker 5: be able to touch because you have the boundary waters.
Speaker 5: As a you have people traveling these river ways. Rarely
Speaker 5: do you have people putting their feet on the ground
Speaker 5: in that timber. So it's kind of a unique experience
Speaker 5: in the fact that you're hunting a place that, you know,
Speaker 5: if someone might have not been on foot there for
Speaker 5: quite some time, and you're hunting animals that really are wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I can see that being a feature, but
Speaker 2: also a bug a little bit. I mean, that's got
Speaker 2: to make it pretty tough to hunt. Well, I can't,
Speaker 2: I shouldn't. I shouldn't say it could make it I
Speaker 2: know it makes it hard to hunt, given my given
Speaker 2: my whitetail hunt there, so I have to ask you
Speaker 2: this then. So the on the plus side, the place
Speaker 2: is amazing canoe country, and the canoe is a tool
Speaker 2: or incredible tools. I would probably add to the mix,
Speaker 2: which you guys didn't bring up, but I'm sure we
Speaker 2: will discuss. You know, the fact that it's such a
Speaker 2: well rounded experience you can have in a wild place
Speaker 2: like this, where you can do so much more than
Speaker 2: just whitetail hunt while you're there, Right, But what's the
Speaker 2: worst thing about trying to pull off a white tail
Speaker 2: adventure somewhere like this, Peters? What's on the cons side
Speaker 2: of the list?
Speaker 5: Man, It's kind of a double edged sword because it
Speaker 5: is access. You know, you know from your experience how
Speaker 5: choked up stuff is up here, so you're just making
Speaker 5: so much noise trying to get back to you that
Speaker 5: spot you saw on satellite that looked real good, and
Speaker 5: you know there's ways to work around it. But especially
Speaker 5: if you're coming up here for the first time and
Speaker 5: you haven't had the chance to shed hunter or go
Speaker 5: to an area multiple times, you have no idea what
Speaker 5: you're walking into. Satellite it's only going to tell you
Speaker 5: so much. So that's always been a challenge for me
Speaker 5: because I'll see something on satellite and be like, oh,
Speaker 5: it's only a one hundred and twenty yard walk. Well
Speaker 5: that one hundred and twenty yards, you know you're hurdling
Speaker 5: dead ball, some boulders and everything else in between.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can get a little a little rough I
Speaker 2: imagined along the way. Yeah, what about you, man, what's
Speaker 2: what's the possible reality of the situation that's less desirable?
Speaker 3: Well, definitely what Peter said.
Speaker 4: I mean case in point, the last white tail hunt
Speaker 4: I was on this fall in the boundary waters. We
Speaker 4: did the exact same thing, where like we paddled it here,
Speaker 4: we use this trail. It's only one hundred and fifty yards,
Speaker 4: but every single yard that we had to make was
Speaker 4: crawling over and under things, and your backpack is catching
Speaker 4: on every single branch. So it's it's willderness with a
Speaker 4: capital W. Right, So it's not maintained.
Speaker 3: It's wild. It's a tough country to get into.
Speaker 4: The other part that's daunting that I spoke about before,
Speaker 4: is that just the sheer size, right, I mean, if
Speaker 4: you go just as a paddler. It's on inspiring how
Speaker 4: big the Boundy Waters is. You can't even imagine how
Speaker 4: much space you're looking at. Then add the hundreds of
Speaker 4: thousands of acres like Peter's talking about when you step
Speaker 4: out of your canoe. Trying to pattern an individual or
Speaker 4: even just any deer in a place like that is
Speaker 4: truly challenging rewarding, and I think Peter will probably tell
Speaker 4: you that harvesting a day in the Boundary Waters is
Speaker 4: a massive, awesome achievement, but it certainly comes with a
Speaker 4: lot of homework, research, blood, sweat and tears.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned you know, it's wilderness with a capital W.
Speaker 2: I know what you mean by that, but there's probably
Speaker 2: some people that don't. Can you just explain what you
Speaker 2: know official wilderness means in this context and why that makes,
Speaker 2: you know, the Boundary Waters even more unique than many
Speaker 2: other wild places that folks might be used to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4: So the Boundary Waters Canoe Area of Wilderness is a
Speaker 4: designated wilderness area. It is federally designated as a wilderness
Speaker 4: and has certain protections, One of which I think the
Speaker 4: impacts people the most is there's no motor use. But
Speaker 4: the exception of a couple border lakes, no chain saws,
Speaker 4: you can't bring a hand drill, so like if you're
Speaker 4: ice fishing, right, we have to handscrew the steaks into
Speaker 4: the ice and stuff like that really insists upon kind
Speaker 4: of like the primal aspect of hunting and fishing and paddling,
Speaker 4: which is obviously why you have to paddle to get
Speaker 4: around in the aunty waters or height, I should say, but.
Speaker 2: No, no roads, no outboard motors, no four wheelers, no,
Speaker 2: just your feet in the canoe.
Speaker 4: And that's one point one million acres of that. So
Speaker 4: you can imagine it's a bit daunting when you're looking
Speaker 4: at on X and trying to decide what your game
Speaker 4: plan is.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So so given that, given this massive scale, given
Speaker 2: this rough, thick terrain in many places, given you know,
Speaker 2: we haven't even got to this, but I'm sure we will.
Speaker 2: Given you know, what can be pretty tough conditions at times,
Speaker 2: how possible is a deer hunt, Peter. I I know
Speaker 2: from my experience that at least what I saw was
Speaker 2: was not a super high deer population. I've talked to
Speaker 2: other people who have lamented a low deer population when
Speaker 2: it comes to I guess expectations for a hunt like this,
Speaker 2: What should we be imagining possible, what kind of goals
Speaker 2: are realistic, and what's just outside the realmal possibility.
Speaker 5: I feel like you have to be chasing the experience
Speaker 5: more than the animal. Most definitely possibility was our overall
Speaker 5: unit in one eighteen. I don't know about last year,
Speaker 5: but the prior year, I think the total success rate
Speaker 5: even outside the boundary waters was I think eleven percent.
Speaker 5: So a lot of people eating tag soup, that's for sure.
Speaker 5: But the possibility is definitely there, but it's going to
Speaker 5: take a lot of time to figure out what you're doing.
Speaker 5: You know, there's out of that wilderness. You know that
Speaker 5: one point one million acres. It's not like there's deer everywhere.
Speaker 5: They're confined to very specific areas that have the habitat
Speaker 5: that's conducive for them. You know, if you see something
Speaker 5: that looks good, it might be moose country, and that's
Speaker 5: not necessarily gonna work out. Sometimes you get an overlap
Speaker 5: where you have moose and deer in the same location,
Speaker 5: but for the most part, they like to stay away
Speaker 5: from each other. So I'd say the possibility of having
Speaker 5: a harvest is definitely there. I've harvested. I know other
Speaker 5: people that have harvested, But it's nothing that you shouldn't
Speaker 5: show up hoping to fill your tag. You know, have
Speaker 5: your expectations low so you're not disappointed at the end.
Speaker 6: Of the day.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now that said though, from what I hear, if
Speaker 2: you do get a shot at a deer up there,
Speaker 2: they're pretty impressive specimens, aren't they.
Speaker 5: In our northern region, we definitely have you know, that
Speaker 5: big bodied, tight chocolate rack, and these deer can get
Speaker 5: to you know, that five to seven year mark.
Speaker 6: And above.
Speaker 5: Not saying that's what you're always going to see. With
Speaker 5: the mild winters we've had the past couple of years,
Speaker 5: I've noticed a lot of young bucks around, which is good,
Speaker 5: you know what it means. But there's a gift take
Speaker 5: with those light winners as well, So you do have
Speaker 5: the opportunity to harvest, you know, a true north Woods giant.
Speaker 6: But I don't know.
Speaker 5: I'm personally like, if I see something with anwers out there,
Speaker 5: it's it's in the fourth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get that. What about what about you, Matt,
Speaker 2: what's your take on kind of proper expectations for this
Speaker 2: kind of this kind of adventure.
Speaker 4: I think you should get excited if you get a
Speaker 4: shot opportunity, and uh yeah, I mean Peter Peter said
Speaker 4: it perfectly right. There are there are a lot of
Speaker 4: deer in there, but it's just spread out a lot,
Speaker 4: and so kind of managing those expectations have fun. Learn
Speaker 4: as much as humanly possible while you're in there. You
Speaker 4: know one thing that I always catch you saying, Mark
Speaker 4: is you only get so many Septembers, you only get
Speaker 4: so many October, so many ruts. Use every single minute
Speaker 4: that you have in the boundary waters to learn a
Speaker 4: little bit more, and even just finding sign and then
Speaker 4: approaching it the next week or the next year with Okay,
Speaker 4: well they're using this corridor and this and that, just
Speaker 4: building off of that. I think that that, like long
Speaker 4: term progression as a deer hunter in a region like
Speaker 4: this is the most exciting part. Then obviously you hope
Speaker 4: that it culminates in shooting deer.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know what was so funny to me on
Speaker 2: my trip up there, My biggest trip, like the full
Speaker 2: week immersion that I had the first time, was how
Speaker 2: despite the fact that we as a group only saw
Speaker 2: two whitetail, it felt like an incredibly action packed week,
Speaker 2: Like despite not seeing our target, there were so many
Speaker 2: other things to do. There were so many other activities,
Speaker 2: just like the pursuit itself was so fun and different
Speaker 2: than the usual hunt that I never felt like this
Speaker 2: was boring and disappointing. And I think it comes back
Speaker 2: to kind of what you guys are talking about, having
Speaker 2: expectations of enjoying the experience, not just seeing a big
Speaker 2: deer and shooting it. It was you know, the camping
Speaker 2: itself was fun. The paddling itself was fun. The you know,
Speaker 2: cooking out on the rocky shoreline was fun. The catching
Speaker 2: fish was fun. The hunting for grouse was fun. Like
Speaker 2: all of these things added up to making it one
Speaker 2: of my favorite deer hunts ever when I individually didn't
Speaker 2: even see a deer. So so add on tap. If
Speaker 2: you eventually do figure it out and you are seeing
Speaker 2: a deer get a chance, I mean, what an unbelievable outcome.
Speaker 2: That would be just a hell of a cherry on top.
Speaker 2: So that's that's I think a big part of the
Speaker 2: appeal to me is going into this with like an
Speaker 2: incredibly well rounded set of possibilities, which is which is
Speaker 2: something you could apply to a lot more hunts, probably
Speaker 2: if you were willing to diversify. But I think in
Speaker 2: an area like this, the boundary waters or canoe country
Speaker 2: or wherever, just by virtual of being by water and
Speaker 2: kind of what that brings to the table, It gives
Speaker 2: you a lot of alternatives. I guess which is appealing.
Speaker 2: What do you what are your thoughts on I guess
Speaker 2: what I'm pitching here though, this like kind of multi
Speaker 2: species approach when you guys usually go at it. Do
Speaker 2: you do you think are you best served to go
Speaker 2: out there just focusing on deer or what I just
Speaker 2: described what I did, is that the better way to
Speaker 2: go Where I was kind of doing a little bit
Speaker 2: of everything. We fished in the middle of the day.
Speaker 2: We grouse hunt in the middle of the day, we
Speaker 2: hunted in the evenings, in the mornings. You know, we
Speaker 2: slept in one morning and fished, and that might have
Speaker 2: hurt my chances to kill a deer, but I was
Speaker 2: really happy with the experience in general. Is that is
Speaker 2: that what you would recommend or do you think that
Speaker 2: if you want to kill one or if you want
Speaker 2: to do this right, you gotta just barrel full speed ahead.
Speaker 2: Focus on deer.
Speaker 5: What do you think, Peter, I think you got to
Speaker 5: wrap everything into it, you know, grouse hunting, hanging out
Speaker 5: with friends on the shoreline, and fishing. There's so much
Speaker 5: to do from your campsite.
Speaker 6: You know, you can have.
Speaker 5: Grouse two hundred yards back there. You could have fish
Speaker 5: right off the shore line. I feel like you're kind
Speaker 5: of limiting yourself if you're only chasing deer while you're
Speaker 5: out there. Granted, I guess that depends how much time
Speaker 5: you have. If you only have three days, two nights,
Speaker 5: and you really want to get after it, then maybe
Speaker 5: spend most of your time in the timber trying to
Speaker 5: figure things out. But after having a tough day and
Speaker 5: you know all these other possibilities are out there to
Speaker 5: be having some fun, it can be kind of hard.
Speaker 5: So I recommend to everyone, you know, bring a fishing round,
Speaker 5: bring a break action for.
Speaker 6: Ten or a twenty two, something like that, just so
Speaker 6: you have that option.
Speaker 2: Yeah, would you add anything, Matt.
Speaker 4: I'll just play Devil's Advocate and say it's kind of
Speaker 4: like muskie fishing. Like as soon as you put down
Speaker 4: the muskie rod and switch to something else, that was
Speaker 4: probably your opportunity. So I would say, you know, if
Speaker 4: you have limited time, like Peter was saying, totally focus
Speaker 4: on on deer hunting. I would say, obviously, like if
Speaker 4: you have a long time or if you live nearby,
Speaker 4: go up there, soak it all in and enjoy everything.
Speaker 4: But I think that you're exponentially increasing your likelihood of
Speaker 4: harvesting a deer you're treating it like a deer hunt.
Speaker 3: And case in point, Peter is.
Speaker 4: Talking about how loud you can be and moving through
Speaker 4: the timber, and deer hunting is probably the only reason
Speaker 4: you're going to have to be quiet in there, And
Speaker 4: so I would argue that you probably want to focus
Speaker 4: as much as possible on that if you want to
Speaker 4: successful as far as harvesting goes.
Speaker 2: And maybe would it be fair to say that if
Speaker 2: you're going to take this diverse approach, that maybe there
Speaker 2: should be certain places that are just where you're gonna
Speaker 2: do the deer hunting, and then there's other places that
Speaker 2: you'll allow yourself to do the grouse hunting or other stuff.
Speaker 2: But obviously walking around trying to kick up a grouse
Speaker 2: is not going to help your deer hunting efforts. In
Speaker 2: a particular region, So probably should have some separation between
Speaker 2: those two.
Speaker 4: Right, You'm probably going to put yourself in a position
Speaker 4: too where your grouse hunting and you're going to bump
Speaker 4: a deer with a four ten in your hand.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yes, okay, So if I were to want
Speaker 2: to plan a kind of hunt like this, what's the
Speaker 2: best time frame? What time of year is most conducive
Speaker 2: to have a great experience and a chance of a deer?
Speaker 2: What would you say, Peter.
Speaker 5: Well, I guess first you have to decide if you
Speaker 5: want to go bow or rifle. If you're going bo,
Speaker 5: i'd say the last two weeks of October, first week
Speaker 5: of November, you know, just like anywhere else. But you
Speaker 5: really got to watch what the temperatures are doing because
Speaker 5: you don't want to get caught in an ice up
Speaker 5: out there. And you got to look into water levels too,
Speaker 5: because a lot of the places that I like to
Speaker 5: hunt require river travel, so back then, those water levels
Speaker 5: can fluctuate quite a bit throughout the fall. If you
Speaker 5: can swing a rifle trip, it really opens up your possibilities.
Speaker 5: You know, you can hunt those beaver ponds and stuff
Speaker 5: like that that are a little more open.
Speaker 6: Uh Yeah, So I'd say, yep.
Speaker 2: I was just gonna ask if you could elaborate on
Speaker 2: the ice up thing, because I'm not sure people will
Speaker 2: understand exactly what you mean or why that's so important.
Speaker 6: Why are we worried about ice out there?
Speaker 5: So lakes typically start freezing up, it varies year to year,
Speaker 5: but first two weeks in November, and you know, paddling
Speaker 5: through even a really thin layer of ice, especially in
Speaker 5: a kevlar canoe, is just a daunting task. It's kind
Speaker 5: of fun if you're just breaking some ice cruising through
Speaker 5: a bay, but if you're just eating paddle strokes and
Speaker 5: doing that over and over again, it's.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet so. Okay, So if we're talking, you know,
Speaker 2: either late October or early November, that's our window. It
Speaker 2: sounds like you mentioned that ice could be something to
Speaker 2: watch out for. What are other conditions that we should
Speaker 2: be prepared for. Should I expect the same kind of
Speaker 2: thing that I'm gonna be hunting in in southern Michigan
Speaker 2: in early November? Or is it significant more arctic, more rough,
Speaker 2: more dramatic up there? What's your experience meant with conditions?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 4: I think yes, it is colder generally speaking, the further
Speaker 4: north yougo. And but I think if we just set
Speaker 4: aside the boundary waters and talk about just like canoe
Speaker 4: country or like paddle hunting in general, you're putting yourself
Speaker 4: in scenarios that are so different than hunting like a
Speaker 4: farm field in Iowa or whatever. Right when you're in
Speaker 4: a canoe, there's no cover. So even if it's just rain, well,
Speaker 4: that becomes a serious issue if you don't have the
Speaker 4: right gear or if you can't get out of the rain.
Speaker 4: And you know, it's okay to be in a sturdy
Speaker 4: tree stand when you have forty nine hour winds, but
Speaker 4: you know that can severely impact when you can go
Speaker 4: and leave and the safety of a paddling trip. And
Speaker 4: so I would say wind, rain, ice conditions are probably
Speaker 4: going to be your biggest concerns when it comes to
Speaker 4: a canoe deer hunting trip.
Speaker 2: Yeah, great point. What about gear? And so given that,
Speaker 2: given that there's a diverse set of potentially you know,
Speaker 2: inclement elements we're dealing with here for that kind of hunt,
Speaker 2: is it you know, typically a wall tent and a
Speaker 2: stove kind of deal that you guys like to have
Speaker 2: or do you sometimes just go out of a backpacking tent.
Speaker 2: I guess let's start with like the camping gear situation,
Speaker 2: like living out there in this these kinds of elements.
Speaker 2: What's your recommended setup? And I'll let you continue, man,
Speaker 2: then I'll bounce over to you, Peter.
Speaker 4: So I, in my opinion, if you have a sturdy tent,
Speaker 4: that is all you need for a like a four
Speaker 4: season boundary waters trip. That being said, if you have
Speaker 4: the extra scratch, I can't recommend like seek outside enough. Right,
Speaker 4: having that warm, hot tent to go back to after
Speaker 4: a long, crappy day out in the woods is I mean,
Speaker 4: it's definitely a game changer. You have to kind of
Speaker 4: weigh though, how much time are you actually spending a camp,
Speaker 4: Like what's your mission? Are you going to go relax
Speaker 4: and enjoy the sunrise or do you just need to.
Speaker 3: Get to sleep?
Speaker 4: And if that's the case, I would say the weight,
Speaker 4: even though those tents aren't even that heavy these days,
Speaker 4: save the weight and just have a sturdy, well staked
Speaker 4: or season tent. And then beyond that some of the
Speaker 4: things I would just say, without a doubt, you got
Speaker 4: to bring a zero degree bag.
Speaker 3: I mean, unless you have unseasonably warm weather.
Speaker 4: I think hunting season at the Boundary waters requires that,
Speaker 4: and then really really sturdy clothes. I know a lot
Speaker 4: of people put way too much focus into their attire,
Speaker 4: you know, and it's like I gotta get this pant
Speaker 4: the first light and coou whatever. But you kind of
Speaker 4: do need to get really good clothes, you know, wool
Speaker 4: obviously no cotton. But then you have to think about
Speaker 4: with canoe hunting, there's so many different terrains in a
Speaker 4: given day that you're going to encounter, and there's not
Speaker 4: really a one size fits all other than probably the
Speaker 4: best kind of like pants, for instance, that you can buy.
Speaker 4: You're paddling, you're stepping out of your paddle, you're going
Speaker 4: through brush, then you have to sit in a stand
Speaker 4: or sit on the ground and get on your knees
Speaker 4: and stuff like that. So I encourage people that don't
Speaker 4: spare expenses when it comes to really quality attire and
Speaker 4: then obviously a solid four season tent.
Speaker 2: Yeah. What about you, Peter, what's your take on camp
Speaker 2: situation gear in general?
Speaker 5: I think if you're going to be out there a
Speaker 5: while having an Eyelon style hot tent, I try to
Speaker 5: stay away from canvas just because it gets too heavy.
Speaker 5: But exactly what I was saying, like a teepee style
Speaker 5: seek outside tent. I usually just do a typical four
Speaker 5: season tent and a zero or a twenty degree bag
Speaker 5: and bring hand warmers, keep them in my armpits near
Speaker 5: my arteries to keep me warm at night, or you know,
Speaker 5: fill up an analgen with hot water by my feet.
Speaker 5: Another piece your footwear is so important because there when
Speaker 5: it's that cold out, there's.
Speaker 6: No way to drag your feet.
Speaker 5: So a shinnhai muck boot and then a hunting boot
Speaker 5: as well, and then usually I'll bring a pair of
Speaker 5: cracks or something if I'm just kicking it around. Ye,
Speaker 5: but yeah, you do not want what seed out there,
Speaker 5: and it can happen really easily, you know, just just
Speaker 5: flipping off a rock when you're getting into the canoe.
Speaker 5: It's I got great. I got a wet foot for
Speaker 5: four days and now you're dealing with that.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Another piece of equipment that I've found super helpful. Multiple
Speaker 5: headlamps for sure, because I just you know, have one
Speaker 5: in the tent, have one that's out there with you.
Speaker 5: Because I've had a headlamp die on me in the
Speaker 5: woods personally on a camping trip and it, Uh, definitely
Speaker 5: it's a buyer unto you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a problem. Yeah, so you bring up water. Obviously,
Speaker 2: water is all around when you're out there in the
Speaker 2: Boundary waters or similar region, so that can cause some
Speaker 2: problems other than rubber boots and you mentioned but yeah,
Speaker 2: you mentioned. I guess rubber boots. What other things do
Speaker 2: we need to be planning for and bringing along with
Speaker 2: this to deal with water? I'm wondering about ways to
Speaker 2: keep your gear wet or dry when you're canoeing, Ways
Speaker 2: to keep stuff dry when you're out there going from
Speaker 2: spot to spot, rain gear, anything else over the course
Speaker 2: of a hunt that helps you keep stuff from getting
Speaker 2: soaked and staying soaked. Matt, does anything come to mind?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 4: So I would say the gold standard of any canoe
Speaker 4: travel is going to be a voyager style pack, which
Speaker 4: rather than having like a framed mountain pack, it's basically
Speaker 4: just like a huge sack that straps on it. But
Speaker 4: the key to that is using a liner. And I'm
Speaker 4: sure Peter, being an outfitter, is probably packed a thousand
Speaker 4: of these things, probably ten thousand, But basically a plastic
Speaker 4: liner that goes inside you put all your gear in
Speaker 4: and flip the plastic over it, and it almost ensures
Speaker 4: that you're going to have dry gear. Even if you flip,
Speaker 4: I think you've got probably a minute before it starts
Speaker 4: seeping in. And so yeah, pack liner, pack liner, that's
Speaker 4: probably the most important thing for keeping your gear dry
Speaker 4: while you're out and.
Speaker 5: About Yeah, what would you say, Peter, I'd go with
Speaker 5: Matt on the pack liner. The big thing is you
Speaker 5: need to make sure you have like a four to
Speaker 5: six mil thick bag because you don't want holes getting
Speaker 5: punched in that.
Speaker 6: And it's amazing how one little hole in that.
Speaker 5: Pack liner can just allow so much moisture to get
Speaker 5: in there, because once that gets in there and it
Speaker 5: starts to compensate, then everything's kind of damp. They do
Speaker 5: a really good job though, you know you just like
Speaker 5: I was saying, you just roll top since your pack
Speaker 5: super tight, and yeah, most of it is you're gonna
Speaker 5: get so much water in the canoe just from getting
Speaker 5: in and out and your paddle splashing on your jay
Speaker 5: strokes and whatnot. So yeah, just having everything in their
Speaker 5: water tight. Sometimes I'll even put my clothes in a
Speaker 5: separate dry bag inside that pack just as an extra
Speaker 5: layer of protection, but usually the portage pack does just
Speaker 5: fine with the liner.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna ask you. When I do backcountry
Speaker 2: trips where I'm worried about stuffetting wet, I'll usually put
Speaker 2: my sleeping bag in like a waterproof stuff sack as well.
Speaker 2: And then also I was curious, do you guys ever
Speaker 2: wear rain gear even when it's not raining, or at
Speaker 2: least like in your pants, because for the same thing
Speaker 2: you just mentioned there, peer like when you're stroking with
Speaker 2: a paddle, things splashing in and around, does it ever
Speaker 2: make sense to keep rain gear on just to keep
Speaker 2: you dry in those types of situations too?
Speaker 5: I wear my rain gear lowers typically when I'm paddling.
Speaker 5: The main benefit I found I use some pretty heavy
Speaker 5: duty Alaska hard gear for intolt trading, and when my
Speaker 5: rain pant is over my boot, if I do go over,
Speaker 5: the pressure almost makes them into like a later, which
Speaker 5: is nice.
Speaker 2: That's handy. Okay, continuing down the gear list, A big
Speaker 2: one here picking the right canoe for the job. What
Speaker 2: are your recommendations as far as the kind of canoe
Speaker 2: we need to pull off? A big expedition like this.
Speaker 2: This is different than just canoe and down the river
Speaker 2: on a sunny summer day where we're taking a lot
Speaker 2: of stuff out there with us, and like you said,
Speaker 2: it could be tough conditions. What is the correct tool
Speaker 2: for this application? And I'll let I'll let Matt lead.
Speaker 2: You looked eager.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I actually wrote some notes on this because I think
Speaker 4: it's like it really is a huge difference, and a
Speaker 4: lot of people start canoe hunting without any background information
Speaker 4: in this, and it can be a make or break
Speaker 4: for the success or torture of your hunt.
Speaker 3: So this September, when I was bow.
Speaker 4: Hunting, I had to paddle on a really sketchy, shallow
Speaker 4: river to get into my tree stand. Every day I
Speaker 4: have a one hundred pound old town made out of
Speaker 4: plastic that I can just absolutely beat off of waterfalls.
Speaker 4: Cannot portage it. I mean I can, but it's it's horrible, miserable,
Speaker 4: but it's super durable.
Speaker 3: It can.
Speaker 4: I mean, I could probably own elephant in there right,
Speaker 4: pack out anything, and that makes sense for that I
Speaker 4: don't have to portage it in that particular spot.
Speaker 3: Every other application.
Speaker 4: I use a kevlar and I'm guessing Peter's probably gonna
Speaker 4: back me up on that. But kevlar, I mean, we're
Speaker 4: talking forty five pounds for your average Kevy and.
Speaker 3: They can still hold several several.
Speaker 4: Hundred pounds in addition to yourself. They're easy to navigate,
Speaker 4: and they're pretty durable. The only other I guess possibility
Speaker 4: would be in the luminum, which is tried and true.
Speaker 4: They're affordable, they're pretty lightweight, and same thing, you can
Speaker 4: beat them up like crazy and still float. So that's
Speaker 4: kind of my take on that I would recommend. If
Speaker 4: you're only getting one, probably get a kevlar. They're a
Speaker 4: little bit more expensive, but it can take you almost anywhere.
Speaker 5: Okay, what about you, Peter, I'd say for almost every
Speaker 5: use case, kevlar for sure, just because I'm portaging one
Speaker 5: of those old town Compositive or Royal X canoes. It
Speaker 5: just which is your shoulders and you already have enough
Speaker 5: weight with you when you're doing an adventure like this.
Speaker 5: The only application I really see for aluminum is if
Speaker 5: you think you might be breaking some ice coming out
Speaker 5: of there, because the kevlar boats just don't have enough
Speaker 5: keel to get through it easily. But the aluminums go
Speaker 5: through it pretty quick. Another thing I do like about
Speaker 5: aluminums is that they are heavier, so if you're dealing
Speaker 5: with wind, you know, it kind of helps you track
Speaker 5: a little bit straighter. But that can be mitigated in
Speaker 5: a kevlar canoe if you're just adding some weight to it.
Speaker 5: I've had times where, you know, even for summer boundary
Speaker 5: waters trips, it's real windy and we're just going on
Speaker 5: a day trip, like, all right, let's put a life
Speaker 5: jacket in the front of the canoe and throw a
Speaker 5: boulder in there to protect the kevlar, just to help
Speaker 5: you track, especially if there's a weight differential between two paddlers.
Speaker 2: See, you guys both brought up the weight thing and portaging,
Speaker 2: which maybe some people aren't you experienced doing, But basically
Speaker 2: we're talking about getting from one lake to another, from
Speaker 2: one water source to another by literally picking up your
Speaker 2: your canoe up over your head and walking it to
Speaker 2: the next spot. That's a big part of canoe country
Speaker 2: adventures of any kind, definitely up there in the boundary waters.
Speaker 2: Are there any best practices or little tips and tricks
Speaker 2: you guys have picked up over the years to make
Speaker 2: that a less daunting or painful process because it yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, it could be a pain in the butt sometimes,
Speaker 2: but I'm sure there's ways to make it a little
Speaker 2: bit less. So what are your expert pieces of advice
Speaker 2: on that little part of the experience, Matt.
Speaker 4: It's like one of the great debates in canee travel
Speaker 4: is how did best portage? I think it's based on
Speaker 4: really how much stuff you actually have. The debate is
Speaker 4: to do a through portage or to parse it out
Speaker 4: if you have more than one person with you. So
Speaker 4: the first person, as soon as the canoe lands, take
Speaker 4: all the gear halfway, come back and get the rest,
Speaker 4: and then the person paddling continues through with the canoe
Speaker 4: all the way. And I have found that to be
Speaker 4: a little bit more tedious. I don't prefer that method.
Speaker 4: I like, it's just before we land the canoe, you're
Speaker 4: taking this, I'm taking that, and we're going straight through.
Speaker 4: I'm actually curious to see what you have to say,
Speaker 4: Peter as which one works best.
Speaker 3: But that is a hot topic, is how the best portage.
Speaker 4: I personally just like, get it done, embrace the suck,
Speaker 4: and get it over.
Speaker 5: With, would you see, Peter, I'm definitely a fan of
Speaker 5: single trip portages unless it's really short, you know, I'd
Speaker 5: say thirty rods or less, which a road is sixteen
Speaker 5: and a half feet. The big thing is make sure
Speaker 5: you have everything in your canoe just packed up. Having
Speaker 5: a whole bunch of loose stuff that you have to
Speaker 5: carry in your hands is tedious. So when I'm in
Speaker 5: travel mode, I have my nuts, canoe, chairs, rods, everything's
Speaker 5: strapped into the canoe. So when we get to a portage,
Speaker 5: we're pulling two packs out and the canoe is going
Speaker 5: on someone's shoulders. There's not a whole bunch of organizing
Speaker 5: to do, because that's the time that you spend getting
Speaker 5: in and out of the canoe at the start and
Speaker 5: end of the portages is really what eats up a
Speaker 5: lot of time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what about actually carrying the canoe? Is there
Speaker 2: any little tips there to make that less you know,
Speaker 2: stressful on the body more comfortable any Is there a
Speaker 2: right way to pop that sucker over your head and
Speaker 2: do it or is it however feels comfortable.
Speaker 5: There's a There's two methods that we show our guests here.
Speaker 5: The most common is kind of the buddy system, where
Speaker 5: two people are lifting the canoe over your head and
Speaker 5: then one person is sliding their hand down the gunwales
Speaker 5: to get to the yolk and put it on their shoulders.
Speaker 5: If you have a little bit more experience, you can
Speaker 5: kind of do almost like a power clean and throw
Speaker 5: the can you over your shoulders.
Speaker 6: But it's really not a weight thing. It's more balance
Speaker 6: for sure.
Speaker 2: Okay, anything you'd ad Matt yoke pads, gotta have yoke
Speaker 2: pads or it's just gonna eat your shoulders up, especially
Speaker 2: if you have a long trip.
Speaker 4: So some people make them themselves. They throw just like
Speaker 4: foam pads and lash them on there. I recommend getting
Speaker 4: like the correct size and they make like there's a
Speaker 4: kit you can use for your canoe and kind of
Speaker 4: fit your shoulder size.
Speaker 3: But I can't recommend it enough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So one thing to point out. In a lot
Speaker 2: of places around quote unquote canoe country, I know, definitely
Speaker 2: there by the boundary waters, you can rent canoes and
Speaker 2: a lot of the skiar too. Right. You don't have
Speaker 2: to buy this stuff for the trip, you can you
Speaker 2: can use it for the week and just pay for
Speaker 2: that time. Right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's something we do here. Pretty much. Everyone's renting kevlar. Nowadays,
Speaker 5: we rarely send out aluminums anymore unless there's a use case.
Speaker 5: But I think you need to figure out how often
Speaker 5: you're going to be doing this. I've had a lot
Speaker 5: of clients that come up year after year than after
Speaker 5: doing it three years in a row, they say, Oh,
Speaker 5: this is something we're going to do yearly or twice
Speaker 5: a year for the rest of our life. It makes
Speaker 5: more sense to buy a used kevlar canoe than just around.
Speaker 5: And I guess it also depends where you're coming from.
Speaker 5: When we have people flying them, they don't really want
Speaker 5: to deal with the hassle of owning a kevlar canoe,
Speaker 5: whereas most of the people that buy or use an
Speaker 5: inventory or from Minneapolis and the surrounding areas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. Uh okay. One last kind of
Speaker 2: I guess sort of gear question that being eating when
Speaker 2: you're on these kinds of trips. Do you guys like
Speaker 2: to go super minimalist and just bring standard like backpacking
Speaker 2: meals or do you elevate the eating experience a little
Speaker 2: bit more because of the fact that you have more
Speaker 2: space and a canoe and do something you know different,
Speaker 2: You know, Peter we have a take on that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So usually for first breakfast, lunch, and dinner, I'm
Speaker 5: doing fresh food, you know, like steaks, surf and turf,
Speaker 5: So we send people out with individually cryovac steaks. First morning,
Speaker 5: we'll do breakfast burritos, so we have hardshell egg carriers. See,
Speaker 5: you don't worry about those getting crushed. From there, I
Speaker 5: switched over to a mixture of dehydrated and fresh food
Speaker 5: that's kind of non perishable. So for lunches, I'm doing
Speaker 5: pbnj's salami, sandwiches, cheese, and crackers, stuff like that.
Speaker 6: Them.
Speaker 5: Personally, I like to do a lot of oatmeal for breakfast,
Speaker 5: just because I'm trying to get on the water to fish.
Speaker 5: But all our dinners are dehydrated after that, unless you're
Speaker 5: doing a fish ray.
Speaker 2: What about you, met, what's your what's your food game
Speaker 2: look like on one of these trips.
Speaker 3: I used to be kind of a minimalist. I don't
Speaker 3: like dealing with cooking and stuff like that.
Speaker 4: But ever since I started going with the people have
Speaker 4: gone with the last year, I'm definitely sold on fresh food.
Speaker 4: There are ways to pack it down and make it
Speaker 4: really simple. Now we have a dehydrator two, which we
Speaker 4: can kind of like make some of.
Speaker 3: Our own stuff.
Speaker 4: My favorite Boundary Water's meal that's super lightweight, easy to
Speaker 4: make is a Japanese curry with prepackaged kind of like
Speaker 4: Chicken of the Sea, Chicken whatever that brand is. And
Speaker 4: then minute rice all done in one pot. Takes twenty minutes,
Speaker 4: easy to clean, super delicious. But meals like that are
Speaker 4: just super light weight, easy to make. There's no reason
Speaker 4: to spend sixteen bucks a pop on a dehydrated meal
Speaker 4: if you can avoid it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can agree that. Also. The other thing
Speaker 2: to mention probably is if you are going to have
Speaker 2: this diverse experience out there doing some grouse hunting, doing
Speaker 2: some fishing, want to eat some that too, right, Like
Speaker 2: bring the proper gear to be able to enjoy a
Speaker 2: shore lunch. That was probably my favorite thing of my
Speaker 2: whole trip was eating fresh fish right on the rocky
Speaker 2: shoreline next to the lake, or eating you know, grouse
Speaker 2: right you know the day of I mean it was,
Speaker 2: it was fantastic and made for such a I don't know,
Speaker 2: such a great a great meal and day and made
Speaker 2: the whole thing better. So one of them live it up.
Speaker 4: One of the most satisfying feelings on the planet is
Speaker 4: to walk over the rock that your friends are setting
Speaker 4: up camp on with the stringer of walleye and you're like,
Speaker 4: I got it tonight.
Speaker 3: I took care of it.
Speaker 2: That is very primal, deep in our DNA kind of
Speaker 2: thing right there. Providing. Yeah, so let's let's shift. Let's
Speaker 2: shift how to provide, which is how we can actually
Speaker 2: kill a deer on one of these trips. First step
Speaker 2: in that, I think is probably just choosing a productive area.
Speaker 2: This is one of the biggest challenges I had when
Speaker 2: I was learning We're trying to plan my first trip,
Speaker 2: because I didn't know the area at all, and so
Speaker 2: I was depending on little tips and ideas from other people.
Speaker 2: But when you're looking at a map or when you're
Speaker 2: starting to think through like where do I want to
Speaker 2: start in this vast Superior National Forest or wherever you are, Peter,
Speaker 2: what's your recommendation for someone when trying to drill down
Speaker 2: to like, hey, this looks like it could be a
Speaker 2: good place to deer hunt, when, like you mentioned, it's
Speaker 2: a vast area and many of these other places with
Speaker 2: lakes are big wild country. How do you pick a
Speaker 2: spot to start.
Speaker 5: The first thing I do is look for terrain features
Speaker 5: that are different. You know, in the big woods, you
Speaker 5: just need to You're not going to find walking through
Speaker 5: straight lines of timber. Okay, there's a deer sign here,
Speaker 5: so you can always call them outfitter or if you
Speaker 5: call one of the CEOs around here. They're always willing
Speaker 5: to talk to people about the deer population here and
Speaker 5: kind of what's going on. They're not going to give away,
Speaker 5: you know, any huge secrets or anything like that. But
Speaker 5: I look for personally, I'm a big fan of beater ponds,
Speaker 5: just a diverse you know, you'll have moose, bear pretty
Speaker 5: much everything cruising through those, and it provides you with
Speaker 5: kind of an open area and an access point.
Speaker 6: Goal.
Speaker 5: Yeah, just trying to dissect this terrain and find something
Speaker 5: unique instead of just tranking through the woods.
Speaker 2: What about you met anythings, any features or topography, anything
Speaker 2: else that's helped you kind of isolate productive areas.
Speaker 4: The only two kind of like standout land features that
Speaker 4: have at least helped me consistently locate deer are pinch
Speaker 4: points that connect wintering habitat to water escape routes, food
Speaker 4: and stuff like that. Wintering habitat is definitely a big
Speaker 4: part of staying alive for a long.
Speaker 3: Time up here as deer.
Speaker 4: And then the other one is muskeggs, partially for what
Speaker 4: Peter said is you can actually see pretty far. And
Speaker 4: the other part is that a muskeg is like its
Speaker 4: own mini ecosystem. So a lot of times they'll have
Speaker 4: all their patches kind of throughout, you know, like a
Speaker 4: half ache or alder patch, which is good winter and habitat.
Speaker 4: But then the muskeg will be surrounded by thick timber
Speaker 4: and so there's good escape routes. And that's just kind
Speaker 4: of what I've seen them relate to the most in
Speaker 4: the boundary waters and areas like that.
Speaker 2: What does a pinch point look like in a place
Speaker 2: like this, Because I think when your typical hunter here's
Speaker 2: about a pinch point, they're thinking of like a narrow
Speaker 2: strip of timber in between two big open crop fields.
Speaker 2: You're not finding that in the boundary waters. What's what's
Speaker 2: the pinch point of by you look like? What are
Speaker 2: you talking about.
Speaker 4: Like a like a dry creek bed or even then
Speaker 4: active creek bed that is interconnecting. So let's let's just
Speaker 4: say for the sake of argument that you're hunting muskekes today, right, Well,
Speaker 4: there's chances are there's probably five or six of them
Speaker 4: within the general area that you're hunting, and they're all
Speaker 4: going to be interconnected, and every single one them is
Speaker 4: going to have a pinch point that feeds water from
Speaker 4: the highest elevation one to the next one. Those pinch
Speaker 4: points are like highways for all wildlife, not just deer,
Speaker 4: and so on my most recent hunt this last November,
Speaker 4: we seriously just piked a long connection of muskegs, and
Speaker 4: every single time we could find that really defined pinch point,
Speaker 4: there's a deer sign. That's not to say that every
Speaker 4: single connection like network of muskegs is going to have deer,
Speaker 4: because there's hundreds of thousands of them in the Boundary
Speaker 4: Waters and Superior National Forest. But I think it's just
Speaker 4: a good starting point and the likelihood of shooting one
Speaker 4: in an open area like that is exponentially higher than
Speaker 4: blast and one in the timber.
Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, that makes sense. And just to clarify,
Speaker 2: like a muskeg is is basically kind of an open
Speaker 2: wet landy type patch, right yep. For someone's trying to
Speaker 2: look for it out there on their own.
Speaker 3: They're actually much easier to hike too.
Speaker 4: When you get a little bit of a frost or
Speaker 4: a freeze, they can be kind of dangerous to hike
Speaker 4: in there's sinkholes and stuff like that when it's when
Speaker 4: it's warm outside, but getting a good first freeze, they're
Speaker 4: actually extremely navigable.
Speaker 2: Peter, you mentioned earlier the fact that you got to
Speaker 2: watch out because sometimes you'll find something that looks good
Speaker 2: and it turns out to be moose country versus whitetail country.
Speaker 2: Is there any way to discern ahead of time what
Speaker 2: would be likely moose versus likely whitetail so that you
Speaker 2: don't make that mistake or is it kind of a
Speaker 2: crap shoot?
Speaker 6: For me, it's been kind of a crap shoot for
Speaker 6: the most part.
Speaker 5: Once you get there and you can look at the
Speaker 5: height of the brows, that's kind of the first deciding factor.
Speaker 5: I mean, if you're in a moose country and you're
Speaker 5: you know, a moose rub and a white tail or
Speaker 5: are pretty distinguishable. You do in the ely area at
Speaker 5: least get an overlap in certain areas, But when you're
Speaker 5: looking at our range in the boundary waters, you know,
Speaker 5: the eastern portion of the wilderness is going to be
Speaker 5: primarily moose, and when you get to the western portion,
Speaker 5: you're kind of getting into more white tail country, is
Speaker 5: what I've noticed.
Speaker 6: Another thing, you can find some open ridges that.
Speaker 5: Have oaks on them, and you always know there's going
Speaker 5: to be deer there if you can find that, but
Speaker 5: you can't it's hard to discern that on satellite.
Speaker 2: That is I think a helpful starting point when picking
Speaker 2: a region. Now, I'm curious about the how we've picked
Speaker 2: a spot. We've paddled in, we've set up camp somewhere
Speaker 2: in this region where we've seen a concentration of these
Speaker 2: features that you mentioned are pretty good. I'm curious about
Speaker 2: an actual hunt day. You know, when we did it,
Speaker 2: we would head out early in the morning, go to
Speaker 2: a spot, find an ambush location, sit it out, like
Speaker 2: I found an oakridge like you just mentioned. Peter and
Speaker 2: I sat oak ridges a bunch. Is that what you
Speaker 2: guys are usually doing. I mean, it kind of sounds
Speaker 2: that you mentioned hunting pinch points, Matt, But are you
Speaker 2: usually doing that kind of thing or is there ever
Speaker 2: a world in which you are actually hunting from the canoe,
Speaker 2: like just floating lakes and rivers looking for deer on
Speaker 2: the shoreline. A. I don't know if that's legal or
Speaker 2: not to do it, but is that a thing that
Speaker 2: is ever worth considering? Because we talked to someone last
Speaker 2: week who was floating rivers and could actually, you know,
Speaker 2: have a rifle floating the river and if they saw
Speaker 2: a deer while they're floating the river, you know you
Speaker 2: could make a move on it or anchor and go
Speaker 2: after the deer. Is that a part of a part
Speaker 2: of the toolkit and possibility set?
Speaker 3: Matt, Yeah, it's it's legal.
Speaker 4: I in my experience, I haven't seen them relate to
Speaker 4: lake edges very much, but I have seen deer very
Speaker 4: actively using crossings on rivers that connect lakes. Really similar
Speaker 4: to kind of like my pinch point thing with muske exist.
Speaker 4: You'll have swampy low areas that are connecting to giant lakes,
Speaker 4: and the deer seem to relate to that. So theoretically,
Speaker 4: I guess if you're on a rifle hunt, or if
Speaker 4: you're a crackshot with a bow, you know you could
Speaker 4: get that opportunity from the canoe. I just it would
Speaker 4: be very, very very difficult to glass one up, you know,
Speaker 4: across a lake and get to that deer via canoe,
Speaker 4: but it is legal. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Do you have any thoughts on that, Peter?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'd say that I don't really paddle the shoreline
Speaker 5: to look for white tail necessarily. I'm mostly looking for access,
Speaker 5: you know, where can I get to that area? I
Speaker 5: want to hunt as effectively as possible. A lot of
Speaker 5: the shorelines are really steep here, so looking for an
Speaker 5: area that's not just you know, thick dead balsam all
Speaker 5: over the place, that's actually going to be reasonable for
Speaker 5: you to get up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. Is there is there ever a
Speaker 2: world in which if you were floating somewhere and you
Speaker 2: saw a deer you can make a move on it successfully.
Speaker 2: Has that ever happened to you guys? Where? Yeah? I
Speaker 2: saw a deer when I was heading to a spot
Speaker 2: and I was able to make a move in some
Speaker 2: kind of white Peter, or is that just a crap?
Speaker 6: I've never had that experience. Personally.
Speaker 5: If I were to see a nice white tail on
Speaker 5: the shore line, I would give it a try and
Speaker 5: a heartbeat, But I've never had that opportunity up here.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Last September I was going out on a scouting mission
Speaker 4: technically during the season, but it was unseasonably warm, so
Speaker 4: I wasn't really worried about hunting. And I saw two
Speaker 4: bachelor bucks across the river that I was on, and
Speaker 4: so I docked the canoe, well docked whatever, put it
Speaker 4: on shore, and pushed through the woods in the general
Speaker 4: direction that I thought they were heading, and managed to
Speaker 4: set up probably one hundred and fifty yards from where
Speaker 4: they were crossing. So had that had been rifle season,
Speaker 4: you know, that's a little bit more in the conversation,
Speaker 4: but I think it's doable. But the other part too,
Speaker 4: is like canoeing takes a little bit of focus, and
Speaker 4: so the idea of like maintaining your course and not
Speaker 4: hitting any rocks and spotting a deer and then setting up.
Speaker 3: On it, I think it's pretty challenging.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what about other hunt techniques or parts to
Speaker 2: your hunt program? Is there anything else you're doing that
Speaker 2: has led to success or that you think folks need
Speaker 2: to do other than get to a good area with
Speaker 2: some of this terrain and putting a bunch of time
Speaker 2: in these terrain features. Is there anything else, Matt, that
Speaker 2: you would recommend folks consider whether it be something like
Speaker 2: a call or or something else entirely.
Speaker 4: The two bucks that I had possible shots on this
Speaker 4: year in the boundary waters, we're both called in off brunts,
Speaker 4: and that was a third week of November, which, you know,
Speaker 4: I think that I think the rut is a little
Speaker 4: bit different in big woods and especially Northeast Minnesota is
Speaker 4: different than farm country in southeast Minnesota. But I think
Speaker 4: that's a huge thing, especially, you know, like the theme
Speaker 4: that we keep talking about is you're trying to cover
Speaker 4: so much land. Calling is one thing that you can
Speaker 4: do to try and you know, bring them to you.
Speaker 4: So definitely grunt calling. I rattled a lot during my
Speaker 4: archery hunts.
Speaker 3: That didn't pay off. The grunt really was the only thing.
Speaker 2: So are you are you blind grunting, Like are you
Speaker 2: just grunting at a certain time period and hoping something
Speaker 2: comes in or are you using that grunt only when
Speaker 2: you see something off from the distance and then you
Speaker 2: try to bring them.
Speaker 3: In blind grunting every hour?
Speaker 4: Well, to be fair though, really only in areas where
Speaker 4: I have at least confidence of the existence of deer.
Speaker 3: I don't just like walk through the woods.
Speaker 4: And kind of like elk calling, you know, sure if
Speaker 4: they're a signed and I'm hunting that spot, I'm blind
Speaker 4: grunting about every hour.
Speaker 2: Okay, what about you, Peter, I guess number one? Have
Speaker 2: you had success calling or rattling in areas like this?
Speaker 2: And then number two? Are there the other hunt technique
Speaker 2: things or other elements of hunt strategy worth covering?
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's the grunt has been effective for me as
Speaker 5: far as when I actually see a deer bringing it in.
Speaker 5: As far as blind calling goes, I like to rattle,
Speaker 5: but only when I'm hunting on ground level, and you know,
Speaker 5: I'll just be very aggressive with then, you know, banging branches,
Speaker 5: try to make it sound as realistic as possible. Still
Speaker 5: hunting is probably one of my favorite things to do
Speaker 5: up here, so that's kind of conducive to moving through,
Speaker 5: you know, especially the ridges up here, moving from point
Speaker 5: to point. If you have the opportunity to rifle hunt
Speaker 5: up here and do that still hunting technique, you just
Speaker 5: really need to be ready to shoot. So I had
Speaker 5: an experience where I had a chance at a decent buck,
Speaker 5: but I couldn't find it in my scope fast enough,
Speaker 5: and ever since then, I switched to a ghost ring
Speaker 5: site just because you got to be ready to go
Speaker 5: when you hop onto that ridge, something could be right
Speaker 5: over the top. Overall, callings seems to be pretty effective.
Speaker 5: I just try never to overdo it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, what if you shoot one? What if you
Speaker 2: actually do end up killing a deer deep in a
Speaker 2: wilderness like this, do you guys skin it, break it down,
Speaker 2: quarter it, or do you pull that whole sucker down
Speaker 2: and lay him across the canoe and boat them out?
Speaker 2: Is one big hole package? What's best practice on that?
Speaker 2: If we actually get the gold medal?
Speaker 6: Peter, I think that depends on where you killed.
Speaker 5: The one I shot a deer three years ago and
Speaker 5: I brought that off hole. But one I shot last
Speaker 5: I just ended up quartering and throwing into game bags
Speaker 5: and packing it out. So I think you should be
Speaker 5: ready for either scenario. The amount of portaging you have
Speaker 5: to do is really what's going to be the deciding
Speaker 5: on factor what route you should go, because dragging a
Speaker 5: deer across some of these portages would be an absolutely
Speaker 5: daunting task. It's hard enough to get your packs and
Speaker 5: canoe across there, and then you throw in one hundred
Speaker 5: and eighty pounds crested animal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't imagine. Would do you have anything to
Speaker 2: add on that matt or any other kind of best
Speaker 2: practices when it comes to, you know, dealing with meat
Speaker 2: or the deer itself after a successful tagging of tagging
Speaker 2: of that critter.
Speaker 4: If you do a bear hunt in the Boundary Waters,
Speaker 4: they send you a bear hunting best practices thing, and
Speaker 4: I think it applies well to deer. If you don't
Speaker 4: have the portage a lot, you can buy dry ice
Speaker 4: outside the Bounty Waters and like small Boundy Waters communities
Speaker 4: that purpose. And so yeah, if you're not portaging bringing
Speaker 4: YETI I would say, but only if that hunt is
Speaker 4: during the warm season, so like a September early October hunt.
Speaker 3: That might be necessary.
Speaker 4: Anytime that I've hunted in the Boundy Waters though it's
Speaker 4: been sufficiently cold for a I would argue it like
Speaker 4: a twenty four hour backout, especially if you had like
Speaker 4: good game bags, keeping them dry, keeping them cool, and
Speaker 4: actually knowing how to break down an animal to get
Speaker 4: that heat off of some of those ball joints and
Speaker 4: stuff like that is imperative. So yeah, that'd be the
Speaker 4: only other input I have.
Speaker 2: We've picked an area we've executed a hunt plane, We've
Speaker 2: killed a deer. We had all the proper gear to
Speaker 2: do it. We had some damn good meals along the way,
Speaker 2: saw some beautiful stars, maybe the northern lights. We kicked
Speaker 2: it back, you know, alongside a beautiful lake. We slept
Speaker 2: in a nice warm tent. It's been an amazing experience.
Speaker 2: What what have we missed though? What is the element,
Speaker 2: the idea, the strategy, the thing to prepare that we
Speaker 2: have not covered that someone needs to know before going.
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you feel like we haven't touched
Speaker 2: on that that folks really should be aware of map
Speaker 2: Maybe since we're still with you.
Speaker 4: Well, I think if you never have spent time in
Speaker 4: wilderness with the capital W, it can be daunting. So
Speaker 4: I think people need to do their research as far
Speaker 4: as first saidan, people need to do their research as
Speaker 4: far as bear safety and staying bear aware also just
Speaker 4: like general little hazards and stuff like that. I mean,
Speaker 4: we haven't really touched much on safety, but when you're
Speaker 4: in a truly truly remote area in paddling yourself out
Speaker 4: is your only way getting back to civilization, you really
Speaker 4: have to think twice about how am I cutting the
Speaker 4: wood today. How am I staying this deer? And if
Speaker 4: I make a mistake, what's my route for getting out
Speaker 4: of here? Do I know my way around? My first
Speaker 4: aid kit? I think that people get so excited about
Speaker 4: the hunt that they forget Oh yeah, I'm going into
Speaker 4: the wilderness and I need to be careful and I
Speaker 4: need to do it right. Yeah, and probably go with
Speaker 4: someone for more fun and also just for safety reasons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very very good point, Peter. What would you add?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean mad hit the nail right on the head.
Speaker 5: If you can bring a satellite phone. I always encourage
Speaker 5: people to do, especially if they plan on doing this
Speaker 5: by themselves. I steer people away from hatchets. If you
Speaker 5: have a woodstove, you're definitely gonna need one. But that's
Speaker 5: the number one cause of injury up here at least.
Speaker 5: So yeah, just all your footsteps, you know, when you're
Speaker 5: taking portages and stuff. It doesn't take much to roll
Speaker 5: an ankle or hurt a knee, So we tell everyone
Speaker 5: calculated steps, you know, especially when you have all that
Speaker 5: weight on your shoulders. Those a fall that would be
Speaker 5: pretty insignificant can be a little bit worse, especially on
Speaker 5: the rocky range.
Speaker 6: Features we have up here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I gotta say, Peter, you just made my day
Speaker 2: because the last time, well not the last time, the
Speaker 2: first time I was in the boundary waters for my
Speaker 2: big trip that I've been talking about, I was documented
Speaker 2: by my buddies on their cell phone apparently being too
Speaker 2: careful and too dainty with the hatchet, trying to make
Speaker 2: sure that I didn't trying to make sure I didn't
Speaker 2: hurt myself because I was aware of what you're discussing,
Speaker 2: that it can be dangerous since I was being properly careful,
Speaker 2: and they videoed me looking like, you know, looking a
Speaker 2: little less manly than I'd like to be. And still
Speaker 2: to this day they send me this video to shame me.
Speaker 2: So thank you for validating my concern and care and
Speaker 2: proper safety protocol. I will be pointing them to this
Speaker 2: podcast forever from this point on.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Nope, Like I've seen it personally what a hatchet
Speaker 5: can do to a hand. So yeah, I'm the same way. Man,
Speaker 5: I just put I put my hatchet on top of
Speaker 5: what I'm cutting, and then I'll actually hit that hatchet
Speaker 5: with another log typically just to be super careful.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 5: It's we've We've seen people put them in their shins
Speaker 5: and all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, no good, no good, I think all right. Well,
Speaker 2: speaking of no good and speaking of that first trip,
Speaker 2: when I made my first trip to the Bounder Waters,
Speaker 2: it was originally inspired because I kept hearing about the
Speaker 2: region from folks like the organization that you're part of, Matt,
Speaker 2: Sportsman for the Boundary Waters and backcountry hunters and anglers
Speaker 2: and all these folks talking about how special the Boundary
Speaker 2: Waters were, and then also how potentially threatened they were
Speaker 2: by a proposed mind right on the border. Since then,
Speaker 2: you know, it's been I don't know how many years,
Speaker 2: maybe seven years or five years or something like that.
Speaker 2: Since that first trip of mine, A lot's changed. There's
Speaker 2: been some updates, and then I think there's also some
Speaker 2: possible updates coming down the line. Can you give us
Speaker 2: just a quick update, Matt on where things stand with
Speaker 2: the Twin Metals mind proposal there alongside the Boundary Waters.
Speaker 2: You know, what's happened and what do we need to
Speaker 2: keep an EyeT in the future.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 4: So, Like you said, I work with an organization called
Speaker 4: Sportsman for the Boundary Waters, and our whole thing has
Speaker 4: just been protecting the boundary waters for future generations of hunters,
Speaker 4: anglers and paddlers. It really is such a magnificent and
Speaker 4: unique place, right It's unlike any other place in the
Speaker 4: Lower forty eight and so we want to do everything
Speaker 4: we can to protect that. And like you said, the
Speaker 4: company Twin Metals, which is a subsidiary of a Chilean
Speaker 4: mining company called Antifagasta, has had a proposal for a
Speaker 4: copper nickel mine on the shores or near the shores
Speaker 4: of Birch.
Speaker 3: Lake, which is just outside the boundary waters.
Speaker 4: Birch Lake is connected to the Boundary Waters by the
Speaker 4: South Wishwy River, which through i think two More Lakes,
Speaker 4: is directly in the boundary waters. And so that type
Speaker 4: of mining has a pretty long track record of environmental
Speaker 4: degradation and issue acid mind drainage.
Speaker 6: What have you.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 4: In the last few years that the project isn't going
Speaker 4: anywhere at least right now it's Twin Metals is alive
Speaker 4: and well.
Speaker 3: They are still set up shop.
Speaker 4: In Ely, Minnesota, still trying to get their their permits through.
Speaker 4: During the Biden administration, Interior Secretary deb Holland created a
Speaker 4: twenty year moratorium on that type of mining in the
Speaker 4: Rainy River Watershed, and that is where it's at biggest
Speaker 4: tributary to the Boundary waters region. That currently, as we're talking,
Speaker 4: that moratorium is still in place, so you cannot do
Speaker 4: nonfers mining in the Rainy River Watershed. That being said,
Speaker 4: there are some very specific intentions to remove that moratorium
Speaker 4: as soon as possible. Some of the ways that we're
Speaker 4: kind of looking at right now would be through legisl
Speaker 4: We're expecting a repeat bill to come from Representative Pete Staubert,
Speaker 4: who's my representative up in northeast Minnesota. It's called the
Speaker 4: Superior National Force Restoration Act, which sounds great, but it
Speaker 4: would yeah, sounds lovely. It would undo the moratorium, it
Speaker 4: would give the leases back to Twin Metals, it would
Speaker 4: expedite the environmental review process, and it would take away
Speaker 4: judicial ability for people to argue that it was unlawfully
Speaker 4: given to these companies. So we're definitely encouraging people to
Speaker 4: keep an eye out for that bill. It hasn't been
Speaker 4: introduced yet in the one hundred and nineteenth Congress, but
Speaker 4: surely it will. A kind of piece of good news
Speaker 4: is that HR five eight eight was introduced this session,
Speaker 4: and that is a bill that would actually create permanent
Speaker 4: protections for the Rainy River watershed. That was introduced by
Speaker 4: Congresswoman deb excuse me, Betty McCollum. And so once that
Speaker 4: is jacketed and making its way through Congress, we'd really
Speaker 4: love to see people support that bill as much as possible.
Speaker 3: Again, that's Hr five eight eight.
Speaker 4: That will be obviously a huge step in the right
Speaker 4: direction as far as permanently protecting the boundary waters from
Speaker 4: nonferrist mining. And then the last thing that we're really
Speaker 4: trying to tell people to keep an eye out for
Speaker 4: is executive orders or just any kind of like federal
Speaker 4: power to try and push this thing forward.
Speaker 3: And you know, if I can encourage people to just
Speaker 3: pay attention.
Speaker 4: Right there's so much chaos right now with new administration,
Speaker 4: and we're concerned about this or this is going great
Speaker 4: and this and that, but things get lost in that chaos,
Speaker 4: and so take the time.
Speaker 3: You know, if there's an executive order and you.
Speaker 4: Don't understand what it is, take some time out of
Speaker 4: your day read it. Because there have been some relatively
Speaker 4: align things with significant conservation implications as of late that
Speaker 4: we're looking at.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you bring up a great point, which is
Speaker 2: there's a lot going on right now. It's hard to
Speaker 2: keep track of it all. It's hard to understand how
Speaker 2: it's going to impact hunters and anglers and wildlife and
Speaker 2: wild places. I know, one of the best ways to
Speaker 2: filter all this is to join an organization or sign
Speaker 2: up for a newsletter from an organization that can help
Speaker 2: get you the right information at the right times and
Speaker 2: help you understand it. Obviously, Sportsman for the Boundary Waters
Speaker 2: is the organization if you care about this place or
Speaker 2: this kind of adventure in that region, can you plug
Speaker 2: the organization just a little bit more tell folks how
Speaker 2: they can learn more and get involved.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So, Sportsman for the Boundary Waters founded in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 4: Our website is sportsman BWCA dot org. On there you're
Speaker 4: going to find everything from legislation's breakdown to more information
Speaker 4: about mining, and then also like avenues for you to
Speaker 4: go do more research, you know, which I encourage everyone
Speaker 4: to do. But then also like we can talk about
Speaker 4: all the scary stuff that is going on around the
Speaker 4: Boundary Waters, but we also celebrate the Boundary Waters and
Speaker 4: how incredible of the place it is, and it's hard
Speaker 4: to get people to care about a cause without first
Speaker 4: recognizing the value of that place. And so I mean, yeah,
Speaker 4: we've got everything from like fishing and hunting blogs and
Speaker 4: stories from the back country and stuff like that. And
Speaker 4: so it's been a great honor to work with sports
Speaker 4: for the Boundary Waters where we ride that balance of
Speaker 4: celebrating how incredible the Boundary Waters is, but then also
Speaker 4: this is what you need to know, this is what's
Speaker 4: coming down a pipe, keeping people abreast to those things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like you said, it's so it's so much
Speaker 2: I don't want to say easier, but maybe I'm going
Speaker 2: about this then the wrong way. When you experience something yourself,
Speaker 2: when you have seen it with your own eyes, felt
Speaker 2: it with your own hands, breathed in that area, had
Speaker 2: that place impact you, it becomes so much more likely
Speaker 2: that you're going to take action to take care of
Speaker 2: it and do something about it. So if someone hears
Speaker 2: this conversation, they're inspired to check it out. They're intrigued
Speaker 2: about why there's so many people who care about it. Peter,
Speaker 2: Boundary Waters Outfitters might be someone they can reach out
Speaker 2: to possibly plan a trip.
Speaker 5: Right Yeah, we're a full service outfitter operate summer, fall, winter,
Speaker 5: whether you want to do fishing, grouse hunting, deer hunting,
Speaker 5: ice fishing, pretty much whatever you want. Our website is
Speaker 5: Boundary Watersoutfitters dot com and yeah, check us out.
Speaker 2: Awesome, Well, Jim, I really appreciate it. You've got me
Speaker 2: once again wanting to head north up to canoe Country
Speaker 2: and get one of these adventures on my schedule as well.
Speaker 2: So thanks for doing that, and thanks for doing this chat.
Speaker 3: Thanks Mark.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Park, and that's going to do it for
Speaker 2: us today. Thank you for joining me, Hope, this one
Speaker 2: got you excited to get out there, hit the water
Speaker 2: and chase some white tails of the canoe do something
Speaker 2: a little bit new this year and have a lot
Speaker 2: of fun doing it. So thank you for joining me,
Speaker 2: and until next time, stay wired to Hunt.