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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light

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Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by Matthew Schultz and Peter Costantakus

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Speaker 2: to discuss logistics and tactics for planning a whitetail adventure

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Speaker 2: in canoe country like the Boundary Waters or other similar

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Speaker 2: lake filled wilderness areas. All right, welcome back to the

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Speaker 2: Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light

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Speaker 2: and their Camera for Conservation initiative. And today we're continuing

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Speaker 2: the Whitetail Adventure series that we kicked off last week.

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Speaker 2: The idea here being to look at different unique ways

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Speaker 2: that you can experience a whitetail hunt and an adventure

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Speaker 2: one and the same. You know, your white tail hunts

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Speaker 2: don't always have to be going on the back for you,

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Speaker 2: sitting in the same old, same old tree and shooting

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Speaker 2: that buck you've had on camera for three straight years. Right,

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Speaker 2: that can be fun. I like that just as much

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Speaker 2: as the next guy. But I think there's also a

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Speaker 2: time and a place for getting outside of your comfort zone,

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Speaker 2: expanding your boundaries, trying new things, trying a new adventure,

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Speaker 2: something that's outside of the norm. And so this month

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Speaker 2: that is what we're exploring. Some wilder ways to whitetail hunt.

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Speaker 2: Last week we talked about floating rivers for bucks. This

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Speaker 2: week we're talking about canoe country. Now this is kind

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Speaker 2: of adjacent that was river flows. This is going to

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Speaker 2: be more lake country. So planning a whitetail adventure an

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Speaker 2: expedition in these wild areas full of lakes, like the

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Speaker 2: Boundary Waters of northern Minnesota or northern Wisconsin, maybe the

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Speaker 2: Adirondecks of New York. There's a whole bunch of regions

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Speaker 2: like this across the entire United States. I could see

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Speaker 2: you doing this in reservoir systems down south too. There's

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Speaker 2: a lot of great, big wild places with incredible water

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Speaker 2: access through lakes and reservoirs. How do you plan that

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Speaker 2: kind of hunt? What kind of gear do you need,

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Speaker 2: what kind of tactics work, what kind of approach, what

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Speaker 2: kind of plan do you want to have in place?

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Speaker 2: That is what we're going to talk about here today,

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Speaker 2: and my two guests are folks who have a lot

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Speaker 2: of experience with this kind of thing. There are two

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Speaker 2: diehard hunters and residents of a region just outside of

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Speaker 2: the Boundary Waters Elia, Minnesota. They live and breathe this

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Speaker 2: stuff and have a ton of experience pulling off incredible

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Speaker 2: trips into these places to hunt, fish, canoe and just

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Speaker 2: have a darn good time. So my guests today number

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Speaker 2: one are Matthew Schultz, the program manager for Sportsmen for

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Speaker 2: the Boundary Waters, and Peter Costantikus, the owner and operator

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Speaker 2: of Boundary Waters Outfitters. So that's the game plan as

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Speaker 2: I discussed to talk about, you know, how to plan

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Speaker 2: this kind of trip, so logistics, gear, all that kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff, and then actual tactics for hunting, so how

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Speaker 2: to use water access to hunt, how to find deer

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Speaker 2: in these kinds of big woods areas, specifically kind of

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Speaker 2: the Northern Lake country. We talk about habitat types, topography,

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Speaker 2: the types of setups that might work, calling tactics and

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Speaker 2: regions such as this. So you're gonn get some hunting ideas,

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Speaker 2: You're gonna get some planning and camping and expedition ideas.

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Speaker 2: And I think maybe more than anything, You're gonna get

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Speaker 2: some inspiration to pack a canoe, throw a canoe up

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Speaker 2: on top of the truck, and get out there. Try

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Speaker 2: something new today. So, without any further ado, let's get

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Speaker 2: to my chat with Matt and Peter. Hey, guys, I

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Speaker 2: got to interrupt you. Before we get to my chat

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Speaker 2: with Peter and Matt, I have an emergency update for you.

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Speaker 2: The region that you are about to hear about from

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Speaker 2: Matt and Peter, the Boundary Waters Canoe area of wilderness,

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Speaker 2: is being threatened once again. Just as of today, the

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Speaker 2: day before this podcast drops, we have gotten word that

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Speaker 2: a serious threat is back on the table for this region.

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Speaker 2: Now you're gonna hear soon from Peter and Matt about

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Speaker 2: how special the Boundary Waters are, about what an incredible

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Speaker 2: place this is for hunting and fishing and camping and canoeing.

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Speaker 2: And at the end of the chat, Matt's going to

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Speaker 2: explain to you what types of threats have faced this region,

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Speaker 2: in particular a mind that has been proposed right on

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Speaker 2: the edge of the wilderness. And you're gonna hear about

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Speaker 2: how hunters and anglers and other recreators over the last

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Speaker 2: handful of years have been able to make a big

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Speaker 2: enough of a stink to get folks to put an

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Speaker 2: end to it. Within the last couple of years, a

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Speaker 2: moratorium was placed on mining within this area, so the

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Speaker 2: Boundary Waters were safe as of I think it was

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three now as of today, so this is updated.

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Speaker 2: Since we recorded this podcast, a new bill has been

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Speaker 2: introduced that would call for the removal of those protections

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Speaker 2: and allow for the fast tracking of these minds to

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Speaker 2: happen once again. This new law is the Superior National

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Speaker 2: Forest Restoration Act. This would remove those protections, like I said,

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Speaker 2: and with Republican control the Senate and the House and

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Speaker 2: the Presidency, this thing is very likely to pass if

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Speaker 2: we don't do something about it. So I hope that

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Speaker 2: after you listen to this chat, you will go and visit.

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Speaker 2: Let me see the website. Here is Sportsman BWCA dot org.

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Speaker 2: That's the Sportsman for the Bounder Waters website where you

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Speaker 2: can learn more about this region and how we can

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Speaker 2: take action. Let our voices be heard to once again

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Speaker 2: fight the good fight for the Bounder Waters to make

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Speaker 2: sure we can keep this place healthy, clean, accessible and

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Speaker 2: thriving with wildlife and fish. So we can go out

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Speaker 2: there and enjoy them. All that said, now we can

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Speaker 2: get to my chat with Peter and Matt and please

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Speaker 2: visit Sportsman bw c A dot org afterwards and let

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Speaker 2: your voice be heard. All right with me on the

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Speaker 2: line now is Matthew Schultz and Peter co Stanikus. Did

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Speaker 2: I get it to Costantikus? I got it all right?

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you guys for joining me here today.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Mark.

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm excited about this one because we're in the

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Speaker 2: middle of a series right now on the podcast exploring

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Speaker 2: ways to add adventure to your whitetail hunts. There's there's

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Speaker 2: kind of been a little bit of a narrowing of

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Speaker 2: what most people think about when they think about whitetail hunting. There's,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, there's a rut that allow of us

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Speaker 2: are falling into, and so I wanted to start chatting

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Speaker 2: with folks about ways that there are white tail adventures possible.

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Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people I think, imagine going

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Speaker 2: to Alaska if they want an adventure, or chase an

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Speaker 2: elk out west or something like that. But but really

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Speaker 2: there's ways to do that in whitetail country too. And

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Speaker 2: it seems like you guys have been able to experience

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Speaker 2: kind of one of those pinnacle experiences of which I've

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Speaker 2: been able to dabble. I've gotten had up there a

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Speaker 2: couple times. But give me, give me your pitch, and

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Speaker 2: I guess I'll start with you, Matt on the appeal

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Speaker 2: of a canoe country white tail adventure in a place

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Speaker 2: like the Boundary Waters or similar. What's what's the appeal

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Speaker 2: to this kind of thing?

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Speaker 4: I think one thing I tell a lot of people

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Speaker 4: is that the canoe is one of the most efficient

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Speaker 4: modes of transportation for a hunter or an angler, purely

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Speaker 4: because you can fit all your stuff in it and

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Speaker 4: you can carry it literally anywhere. And so when you

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Speaker 4: look at a map, take Superior National Forest for instance,

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Speaker 4: we're talking about millions and millions of acres and it's

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Speaker 4: so intimate and dating. When you look at that, you're like,

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Speaker 4: how am I going to get in there? Where I'm

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Speaker 4: looking at white tail spots that are five miles in

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Speaker 4: the back country. Well, that canue can literally take you

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Speaker 4: anywhere in that spot. And you know, if you're willing

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Speaker 4: to accept the adventure aspect of it and carry that

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Speaker 4: canoe on your back, it's pretty limitless, and so I'm

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Speaker 4: approaching a hunt from that.

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Speaker 3: Aspect knowing that it's just so limitless.

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Speaker 4: It's a lot like mountain hunting, where if you can

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Speaker 4: go wherever you have the strength of courage to go to.

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Speaker 3: And that's what's so appealing to me, at least what

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Speaker 3: the canoe is. It's just endless.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and what about the particular region that you live

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Speaker 2: and spend so much time right there around the Bounder Waters.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I have a hard time finding the right

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Speaker 2: words to describe how special the Boundary Waters are without

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Speaker 2: feeling an entire book. I mean, I've had some really

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Speaker 2: profound experiences out there, and just a couple times i've been,

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Speaker 2: You've spent, you know, exponentially more time than I have.

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Speaker 2: The appeal to that region.

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Speaker 4: Well, first off, I think just geographically it's really unique.

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Speaker 4: It was carved by the glaciers billions of years ago,

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Speaker 4: and so one thing that I like to note when

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Speaker 4: I'm on it, whether it's a fishing trip in the

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Speaker 4: Boundary Waters or hiking orhunting or whatever, is that the

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Speaker 4: topography changes so much, so you'll be paddling along cliff

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Speaker 4: sides and then all of a sudden you're in a

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Speaker 4: fast moving river and now you're in a muskeg and

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Speaker 4: it's constantly changing, which is something like really exciting for me.

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Speaker 4: I find that to be a huge driver for that

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Speaker 4: particular region.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful, that's for sure. What about you, Peter,

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Speaker 2: what's your pitch to focus on why this kind of

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Speaker 2: trip and why this area in particular is so special.

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Speaker 5: Well, the boundary waters in particular, kind of spinning off

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Speaker 5: what Matt said, the canoe gives you the ability to

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Speaker 5: access areas that ninety percent of people aren't going to

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Speaker 5: be able to touch because you have the boundary waters.

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Speaker 5: As a you have people traveling these river ways. Rarely

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Speaker 5: do you have people putting their feet on the ground

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Speaker 5: in that timber. So it's kind of a unique experience

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Speaker 5: in the fact that you're hunting a place that, you know,

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Speaker 5: if someone might have not been on foot there for

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Speaker 5: quite some time, and you're hunting animals that really are wild.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I can see that being a feature, but

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Speaker 2: also a bug a little bit. I mean, that's got

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Speaker 2: to make it pretty tough to hunt. Well, I can't,

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Speaker 2: I shouldn't. I shouldn't say it could make it I

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Speaker 2: know it makes it hard to hunt, given my given

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Speaker 2: my whitetail hunt there, so I have to ask you

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Speaker 2: this then. So the on the plus side, the place

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Speaker 2: is amazing canoe country, and the canoe is a tool

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Speaker 2: or incredible tools. I would probably add to the mix,

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Speaker 2: which you guys didn't bring up, but I'm sure we

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Speaker 2: will discuss. You know, the fact that it's such a

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Speaker 2: well rounded experience you can have in a wild place

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Speaker 2: like this, where you can do so much more than

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Speaker 2: just whitetail hunt while you're there, Right, But what's the

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Speaker 2: worst thing about trying to pull off a white tail

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Speaker 2: adventure somewhere like this, Peters? What's on the cons side

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Speaker 2: of the list?

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Speaker 5: Man, It's kind of a double edged sword because it

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Speaker 5: is access. You know, you know from your experience how

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Speaker 5: choked up stuff is up here, so you're just making

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Speaker 5: so much noise trying to get back to you that

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Speaker 5: spot you saw on satellite that looked real good, and

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Speaker 5: you know there's ways to work around it. But especially

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Speaker 5: if you're coming up here for the first time and

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Speaker 5: you haven't had the chance to shed hunter or go

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Speaker 5: to an area multiple times, you have no idea what

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Speaker 5: you're walking into. Satellite it's only going to tell you

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Speaker 5: so much. So that's always been a challenge for me

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Speaker 5: because I'll see something on satellite and be like, oh,

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Speaker 5: it's only a one hundred and twenty yard walk. Well

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Speaker 5: that one hundred and twenty yards, you know you're hurdling

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Speaker 5: dead ball, some boulders and everything else in between.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you can get a little a little rough I

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Speaker 2: imagined along the way. Yeah, what about you, man, what's

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Speaker 2: what's the possible reality of the situation that's less desirable?

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Speaker 3: Well, definitely what Peter said.

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Speaker 4: I mean case in point, the last white tail hunt

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Speaker 4: I was on this fall in the boundary waters. We

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Speaker 4: did the exact same thing, where like we paddled it here,

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Speaker 4: we use this trail. It's only one hundred and fifty yards,

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Speaker 4: but every single yard that we had to make was

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Speaker 4: crawling over and under things, and your backpack is catching

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Speaker 4: on every single branch. So it's it's willderness with a

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Speaker 4: capital W. Right, So it's not maintained.

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Speaker 3: It's wild. It's a tough country to get into.

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Speaker 4: The other part that's daunting that I spoke about before,

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Speaker 4: is that just the sheer size, right, I mean, if

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Speaker 4: you go just as a paddler. It's on inspiring how

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Speaker 4: big the Boundy Waters is. You can't even imagine how

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Speaker 4: much space you're looking at. Then add the hundreds of

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Speaker 4: thousands of acres like Peter's talking about when you step

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Speaker 4: out of your canoe. Trying to pattern an individual or

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Speaker 4: even just any deer in a place like that is

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Speaker 4: truly challenging rewarding, and I think Peter will probably tell

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Speaker 4: you that harvesting a day in the Boundary Waters is

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Speaker 4: a massive, awesome achievement, but it certainly comes with a

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Speaker 4: lot of homework, research, blood, sweat and tears.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned you know, it's wilderness with a capital W.

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Speaker 2: I know what you mean by that, but there's probably

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Speaker 2: some people that don't. Can you just explain what you

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Speaker 2: know official wilderness means in this context and why that makes,

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Speaker 2: you know, the Boundary Waters even more unique than many

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Speaker 2: other wild places that folks might be used to.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 4: So the Boundary Waters Canoe Area of Wilderness is a

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Speaker 4: designated wilderness area. It is federally designated as a wilderness

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Speaker 4: and has certain protections, One of which I think the

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Speaker 4: impacts people the most is there's no motor use. But

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Speaker 4: the exception of a couple border lakes, no chain saws,

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Speaker 4: you can't bring a hand drill, so like if you're

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Speaker 4: ice fishing, right, we have to handscrew the steaks into

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Speaker 4: the ice and stuff like that really insists upon kind

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Speaker 4: of like the primal aspect of hunting and fishing and paddling,

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Speaker 4: which is obviously why you have to paddle to get

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Speaker 4: around in the aunty waters or height, I should say, but.

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Speaker 2: No, no roads, no outboard motors, no four wheelers, no,

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Speaker 2: just your feet in the canoe.

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Speaker 4: And that's one point one million acres of that. So

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Speaker 4: you can imagine it's a bit daunting when you're looking

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Speaker 4: at on X and trying to decide what your game

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Speaker 4: plan is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So so given that, given this massive scale, given

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Speaker 2: this rough, thick terrain in many places, given you know,

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Speaker 2: we haven't even got to this, but I'm sure we will.

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Speaker 2: Given you know, what can be pretty tough conditions at times,

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Speaker 2: how possible is a deer hunt, Peter. I I know

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Speaker 2: from my experience that at least what I saw was

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Speaker 2: was not a super high deer population. I've talked to

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Speaker 2: other people who have lamented a low deer population when

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Speaker 2: it comes to I guess expectations for a hunt like this,

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Speaker 2: What should we be imagining possible, what kind of goals

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Speaker 2: are realistic, and what's just outside the realmal possibility.

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Speaker 5: I feel like you have to be chasing the experience

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Speaker 5: more than the animal. Most definitely possibility was our overall

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Speaker 5: unit in one eighteen. I don't know about last year,

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Speaker 5: but the prior year, I think the total success rate

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Speaker 5: even outside the boundary waters was I think eleven percent.

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Speaker 5: So a lot of people eating tag soup, that's for sure.

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Speaker 5: But the possibility is definitely there, but it's going to

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Speaker 5: take a lot of time to figure out what you're doing.

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Speaker 5: You know, there's out of that wilderness. You know that

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Speaker 5: one point one million acres. It's not like there's deer everywhere.

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Speaker 5: They're confined to very specific areas that have the habitat

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Speaker 5: that's conducive for them. You know, if you see something

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Speaker 5: that looks good, it might be moose country, and that's

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Speaker 5: not necessarily gonna work out. Sometimes you get an overlap

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Speaker 5: where you have moose and deer in the same location,

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Speaker 5: but for the most part, they like to stay away

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Speaker 5: from each other. So I'd say the possibility of having

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Speaker 5: a harvest is definitely there. I've harvested. I know other

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Speaker 5: people that have harvested, But it's nothing that you shouldn't

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Speaker 5: show up hoping to fill your tag. You know, have

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Speaker 5: your expectations low so you're not disappointed at the end.

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Speaker 6: Of the day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Now that said though, from what I hear, if

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Speaker 2: you do get a shot at a deer up there,

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Speaker 2: they're pretty impressive specimens, aren't they.

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Speaker 5: In our northern region, we definitely have you know, that

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Speaker 5: big bodied, tight chocolate rack, and these deer can get

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Speaker 5: to you know, that five to seven year mark.

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Speaker 6: And above.

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Speaker 5: Not saying that's what you're always going to see. With

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Speaker 5: the mild winters we've had the past couple of years,

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Speaker 5: I've noticed a lot of young bucks around, which is good,

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Speaker 5: you know what it means. But there's a gift take

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Speaker 5: with those light winners as well, So you do have

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Speaker 5: the opportunity to harvest, you know, a true north Woods giant.

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Speaker 6: But I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I'm personally like, if I see something with anwers out there,

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Speaker 5: it's it's in the fourth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I get that. What about what about you, Matt,

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Speaker 2: what's your take on kind of proper expectations for this

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Speaker 2: kind of this kind of adventure.

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Speaker 4: I think you should get excited if you get a

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Speaker 4: shot opportunity, and uh yeah, I mean Peter Peter said

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Speaker 4: it perfectly right. There are there are a lot of

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Speaker 4: deer in there, but it's just spread out a lot,

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Speaker 4: and so kind of managing those expectations have fun. Learn

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Speaker 4: as much as humanly possible while you're in there. You

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Speaker 4: know one thing that I always catch you saying, Mark

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Speaker 4: is you only get so many Septembers, you only get

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Speaker 4: so many October, so many ruts. Use every single minute

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Speaker 4: that you have in the boundary waters to learn a

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Speaker 4: little bit more, and even just finding sign and then

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Speaker 4: approaching it the next week or the next year with Okay,

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Speaker 4: well they're using this corridor and this and that, just

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Speaker 4: building off of that. I think that that, like long

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Speaker 4: term progression as a deer hunter in a region like

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Speaker 4: this is the most exciting part. Then obviously you hope

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Speaker 4: that it culminates in shooting deer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. You know what was so funny to me on

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Speaker 2: my trip up there, My biggest trip, like the full

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Speaker 2: week immersion that I had the first time, was how

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Speaker 2: despite the fact that we as a group only saw

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Speaker 2: two whitetail, it felt like an incredibly action packed week,

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Speaker 2: Like despite not seeing our target, there were so many

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Speaker 2: other things to do. There were so many other activities,

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Speaker 2: just like the pursuit itself was so fun and different

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Speaker 2: than the usual hunt that I never felt like this

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Speaker 2: was boring and disappointing. And I think it comes back

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Speaker 2: to kind of what you guys are talking about, having

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Speaker 2: expectations of enjoying the experience, not just seeing a big

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Speaker 2: deer and shooting it. It was you know, the camping

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Speaker 2: itself was fun. The paddling itself was fun. The you know,

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Speaker 2: cooking out on the rocky shoreline was fun. The catching

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Speaker 2: fish was fun. The hunting for grouse was fun. Like

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Speaker 2: all of these things added up to making it one

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Speaker 2: of my favorite deer hunts ever when I individually didn't

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Speaker 2: even see a deer. So so add on tap. If

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Speaker 2: you eventually do figure it out and you are seeing

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Speaker 2: a deer get a chance, I mean, what an unbelievable outcome.

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Speaker 2: That would be just a hell of a cherry on top.

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Speaker 2: So that's that's I think a big part of the

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Speaker 2: appeal to me is going into this with like an

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Speaker 2: incredibly well rounded set of possibilities, which is which is

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Speaker 2: something you could apply to a lot more hunts, probably

357
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Speaker 2: if you were willing to diversify. But I think in

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Speaker 2: an area like this, the boundary waters or canoe country

359
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,200
Speaker 2: or wherever, just by virtual of being by water and

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Speaker 2: kind of what that brings to the table, It gives

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Speaker 2: you a lot of alternatives. I guess which is appealing.

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Speaker 2: What do you what are your thoughts on I guess

363
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Speaker 2: what I'm pitching here though, this like kind of multi

364
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Speaker 2: species approach when you guys usually go at it. Do

365
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Speaker 2: you do you think are you best served to go

366
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Speaker 2: out there just focusing on deer or what I just

367
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Speaker 2: described what I did, is that the better way to

368
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Speaker 2: go Where I was kind of doing a little bit

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Speaker 2: of everything. We fished in the middle of the day.

370
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Speaker 2: We grouse hunt in the middle of the day, we

371
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Speaker 2: hunted in the evenings, in the mornings. You know, we

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Speaker 2: slept in one morning and fished, and that might have

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Speaker 2: hurt my chances to kill a deer, but I was

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Speaker 2: really happy with the experience in general. Is that is

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Speaker 2: that what you would recommend or do you think that

376
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Speaker 2: if you want to kill one or if you want

377
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Speaker 2: to do this right, you gotta just barrel full speed ahead.

378
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Speaker 2: Focus on deer.

379
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Speaker 5: What do you think, Peter, I think you got to

380
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Speaker 5: wrap everything into it, you know, grouse hunting, hanging out

381
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Speaker 5: with friends on the shoreline, and fishing. There's so much

382
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Speaker 5: to do from your campsite.

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Speaker 6: You know, you can have.

384
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Speaker 5: Grouse two hundred yards back there. You could have fish

385
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Speaker 5: right off the shore line. I feel like you're kind

386
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Speaker 5: of limiting yourself if you're only chasing deer while you're

387
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Speaker 5: out there. Granted, I guess that depends how much time

388
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Speaker 5: you have. If you only have three days, two nights,

389
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Speaker 5: and you really want to get after it, then maybe

390
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Speaker 5: spend most of your time in the timber trying to

391
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Speaker 5: figure things out. But after having a tough day and

392
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Speaker 5: you know all these other possibilities are out there to

393
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Speaker 5: be having some fun, it can be kind of hard.

394
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Speaker 5: So I recommend to everyone, you know, bring a fishing round,

395
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Speaker 5: bring a break action for.

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Speaker 6: Ten or a twenty two, something like that, just so

397
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Speaker 6: you have that option.

398
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Speaker 2: Yeah, would you add anything, Matt.

399
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Speaker 4: I'll just play Devil's Advocate and say it's kind of

400
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 4: like muskie fishing. Like as soon as you put down

401
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 4: the muskie rod and switch to something else, that was

402
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Speaker 4: probably your opportunity. So I would say, you know, if

403
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 4: you have limited time, like Peter was saying, totally focus

404
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 4: on on deer hunting. I would say, obviously, like if

405
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,719
Speaker 4: you have a long time or if you live nearby,

406
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 4: go up there, soak it all in and enjoy everything.

407
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Speaker 4: But I think that you're exponentially increasing your likelihood of

408
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Speaker 4: harvesting a deer you're treating it like a deer hunt.

409
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Speaker 3: And case in point, Peter is.

410
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Speaker 4: Talking about how loud you can be and moving through

411
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Speaker 4: the timber, and deer hunting is probably the only reason

412
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Speaker 4: you're going to have to be quiet in there, And

413
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Speaker 4: so I would argue that you probably want to focus

414
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Speaker 4: as much as possible on that if you want to

415
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Speaker 4: successful as far as harvesting goes.

416
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Speaker 2: And maybe would it be fair to say that if

417
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Speaker 2: you're going to take this diverse approach, that maybe there

418
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 2: should be certain places that are just where you're gonna

419
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Speaker 2: do the deer hunting, and then there's other places that

420
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Speaker 2: you'll allow yourself to do the grouse hunting or other stuff.

421
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Speaker 2: But obviously walking around trying to kick up a grouse

422
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Speaker 2: is not going to help your deer hunting efforts. In

423
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,439
Speaker 2: a particular region, So probably should have some separation between

424
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Speaker 2: those two.

425
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Speaker 4: Right, You'm probably going to put yourself in a position

426
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Speaker 4: too where your grouse hunting and you're going to bump

427
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Speaker 4: a deer with a four ten in your hand.

428
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Speaker 2: So yeah, yes, okay, So if I were to want

429
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Speaker 2: to plan a kind of hunt like this, what's the

430
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 2: best time frame? What time of year is most conducive

431
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Speaker 2: to have a great experience and a chance of a deer?

432
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Speaker 2: What would you say, Peter.

433
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Speaker 5: Well, I guess first you have to decide if you

434
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 5: want to go bow or rifle. If you're going bo,

435
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 5: i'd say the last two weeks of October, first week

436
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 5: of November, you know, just like anywhere else. But you

437
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 5: really got to watch what the temperatures are doing because

438
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 5: you don't want to get caught in an ice up

439
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 5: out there. And you got to look into water levels too,

440
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 5: because a lot of the places that I like to

441
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 5: hunt require river travel, so back then, those water levels

442
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 5: can fluctuate quite a bit throughout the fall. If you

443
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 5: can swing a rifle trip, it really opens up your possibilities.

444
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 5: You know, you can hunt those beaver ponds and stuff

445
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 5: like that that are a little more open.

446
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 6: Uh Yeah, So I'd say, yep.

447
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 2: I was just gonna ask if you could elaborate on

448
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 2: the ice up thing, because I'm not sure people will

449
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 2: understand exactly what you mean or why that's so important.

450
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 6: Why are we worried about ice out there?

451
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 5: So lakes typically start freezing up, it varies year to year,

452
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 5: but first two weeks in November, and you know, paddling

453
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 5: through even a really thin layer of ice, especially in

454
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 5: a kevlar canoe, is just a daunting task. It's kind

455
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 5: of fun if you're just breaking some ice cruising through

456
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 5: a bay, but if you're just eating paddle strokes and

457
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 5: doing that over and over again, it's.

458
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's tough.

459
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet so. Okay, So if we're talking, you know,

460
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 2: either late October or early November, that's our window. It

461
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 2: sounds like you mentioned that ice could be something to

462
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 2: watch out for. What are other conditions that we should

463
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 2: be prepared for. Should I expect the same kind of

464
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 2: thing that I'm gonna be hunting in in southern Michigan

465
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 2: in early November? Or is it significant more arctic, more rough,

466
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 2: more dramatic up there? What's your experience meant with conditions?

467
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:09,479
Speaker 6: Well?

468
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 4: I think yes, it is colder generally speaking, the further

469
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 4: north yougo. And but I think if we just set

470
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 4: aside the boundary waters and talk about just like canoe

471
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 4: country or like paddle hunting in general, you're putting yourself

472
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 4: in scenarios that are so different than hunting like a

473
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 4: farm field in Iowa or whatever. Right when you're in

474
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 4: a canoe, there's no cover. So even if it's just rain, well,

475
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 4: that becomes a serious issue if you don't have the

476
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 4: right gear or if you can't get out of the rain.

477
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 4: And you know, it's okay to be in a sturdy

478
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 4: tree stand when you have forty nine hour winds, but

479
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 4: you know that can severely impact when you can go

480
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 4: and leave and the safety of a paddling trip. And

481
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 4: so I would say wind, rain, ice conditions are probably

482
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 4: going to be your biggest concerns when it comes to

483
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 4: a canoe deer hunting trip.

484
00:25:55,280 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, great point. What about gear? And so given that,

485
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,959
Speaker 2: given that there's a diverse set of potentially you know,

486
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 2: inclement elements we're dealing with here for that kind of hunt,

487
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,239
Speaker 2: is it you know, typically a wall tent and a

488
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 2: stove kind of deal that you guys like to have

489
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 2: or do you sometimes just go out of a backpacking tent.

490
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 2: I guess let's start with like the camping gear situation,

491
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 2: like living out there in this these kinds of elements.

492
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 2: What's your recommended setup? And I'll let you continue, man,

493
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: then I'll bounce over to you, Peter.

494
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 4: So I, in my opinion, if you have a sturdy tent,

495
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 4: that is all you need for a like a four

496
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 4: season boundary waters trip. That being said, if you have

497
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 4: the extra scratch, I can't recommend like seek outside enough. Right,

498
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 4: having that warm, hot tent to go back to after

499
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 4: a long, crappy day out in the woods is I mean,

500
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 4: it's definitely a game changer. You have to kind of

501
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 4: weigh though, how much time are you actually spending a camp,

502
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 4: Like what's your mission? Are you going to go relax

503
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 4: and enjoy the sunrise or do you just need to.

504
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 3: Get to sleep?

505
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 4: And if that's the case, I would say the weight,

506
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 4: even though those tents aren't even that heavy these days,

507
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 4: save the weight and just have a sturdy, well staked

508
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 4: or season tent. And then beyond that some of the

509
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 4: things I would just say, without a doubt, you got

510
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 4: to bring a zero degree bag.

511
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 3: I mean, unless you have unseasonably warm weather.

512
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 4: I think hunting season at the Boundary waters requires that,

513
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 4: and then really really sturdy clothes. I know a lot

514
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 4: of people put way too much focus into their attire,

515
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 4: you know, and it's like I gotta get this pant

516
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 4: the first light and coou whatever. But you kind of

517
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 4: do need to get really good clothes, you know, wool

518
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 4: obviously no cotton. But then you have to think about

519
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 4: with canoe hunting, there's so many different terrains in a

520
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 4: given day that you're going to encounter, and there's not

521
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 4: really a one size fits all other than probably the

522
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 4: best kind of like pants, for instance, that you can buy.

523
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 4: You're paddling, you're stepping out of your paddle, you're going

524
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 4: through brush, then you have to sit in a stand

525
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 4: or sit on the ground and get on your knees

526
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 4: and stuff like that. So I encourage people that don't

527
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 4: spare expenses when it comes to really quality attire and

528
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 4: then obviously a solid four season tent.

529
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. What about you, Peter, what's your take on camp

530
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 2: situation gear in general?

531
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 5: I think if you're going to be out there a

532
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 5: while having an Eyelon style hot tent, I try to

533
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 5: stay away from canvas just because it gets too heavy.

534
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 5: But exactly what I was saying, like a teepee style

535
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 5: seek outside tent. I usually just do a typical four

536
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 5: season tent and a zero or a twenty degree bag

537
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 5: and bring hand warmers, keep them in my armpits near

538
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 5: my arteries to keep me warm at night, or you know,

539
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 5: fill up an analgen with hot water by my feet.

540
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 5: Another piece your footwear is so important because there when

541
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 5: it's that cold out, there's.

542
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 6: No way to drag your feet.

543
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 5: So a shinnhai muck boot and then a hunting boot

544
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 5: as well, and then usually I'll bring a pair of

545
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 5: cracks or something if I'm just kicking it around. Ye,

546
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 5: but yeah, you do not want what seed out there,

547
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 5: and it can happen really easily, you know, just just

548
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 5: flipping off a rock when you're getting into the canoe.

549
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 5: It's I got great. I got a wet foot for

550
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 5: four days and now you're dealing with that.

551
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 6: Yeah.

552
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 5: Another piece of equipment that I've found super helpful. Multiple

553
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 5: headlamps for sure, because I just you know, have one

554
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 5: in the tent, have one that's out there with you.

555
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 5: Because I've had a headlamp die on me in the

556
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 5: woods personally on a camping trip and it, Uh, definitely

557
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 5: it's a buyer unto you.

558
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a problem. Yeah, so you bring up water. Obviously,

559
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: water is all around when you're out there in the

560
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 2: Boundary waters or similar region, so that can cause some

561
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 2: problems other than rubber boots and you mentioned but yeah,

562
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 2: you mentioned. I guess rubber boots. What other things do

563
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: we need to be planning for and bringing along with

564
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: this to deal with water? I'm wondering about ways to

565
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 2: keep your gear wet or dry when you're canoeing, Ways

566
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: to keep stuff dry when you're out there going from

567
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 2: spot to spot, rain gear, anything else over the course

568
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 2: of a hunt that helps you keep stuff from getting

569
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 2: soaked and staying soaked. Matt, does anything come to mind?

570
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 6: Yeah?

571
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 4: So I would say the gold standard of any canoe

572
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 4: travel is going to be a voyager style pack, which

573
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 4: rather than having like a framed mountain pack, it's basically

574
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 4: just like a huge sack that straps on it. But

575
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 4: the key to that is using a liner. And I'm

576
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 4: sure Peter, being an outfitter, is probably packed a thousand

577
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 4: of these things, probably ten thousand, But basically a plastic

578
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 4: liner that goes inside you put all your gear in

579
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 4: and flip the plastic over it, and it almost ensures

580
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 4: that you're going to have dry gear. Even if you flip,

581
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 4: I think you've got probably a minute before it starts

582
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 4: seeping in. And so yeah, pack liner, pack liner, that's

583
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 4: probably the most important thing for keeping your gear dry

584
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 4: while you're out and.

585
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 5: About Yeah, what would you say, Peter, I'd go with

586
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 5: Matt on the pack liner. The big thing is you

587
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 5: need to make sure you have like a four to

588
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 5: six mil thick bag because you don't want holes getting

589
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 5: punched in that.

590
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 6: And it's amazing how one little hole in that.

591
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 5: Pack liner can just allow so much moisture to get

592
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 5: in there, because once that gets in there and it

593
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 5: starts to compensate, then everything's kind of damp. They do

594
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 5: a really good job though, you know you just like

595
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 5: I was saying, you just roll top since your pack

596
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 5: super tight, and yeah, most of it is you're gonna

597
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 5: get so much water in the canoe just from getting

598
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 5: in and out and your paddle splashing on your jay

599
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 5: strokes and whatnot. So yeah, just having everything in their

600
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 5: water tight. Sometimes I'll even put my clothes in a

601
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 5: separate dry bag inside that pack just as an extra

602
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 5: layer of protection, but usually the portage pack does just

603
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 5: fine with the liner.

604
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna ask you. When I do backcountry

605
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: trips where I'm worried about stuffetting wet, I'll usually put

606
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 2: my sleeping bag in like a waterproof stuff sack as well.

607
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: And then also I was curious, do you guys ever

608
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 2: wear rain gear even when it's not raining, or at

609
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: least like in your pants, because for the same thing

610
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 2: you just mentioned there, peer like when you're stroking with

611
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 2: a paddle, things splashing in and around, does it ever

612
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 2: make sense to keep rain gear on just to keep

613
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 2: you dry in those types of situations too?

614
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 5: I wear my rain gear lowers typically when I'm paddling.

615
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 5: The main benefit I found I use some pretty heavy

616
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 5: duty Alaska hard gear for intolt trading, and when my

617
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 5: rain pant is over my boot, if I do go over,

618
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 5: the pressure almost makes them into like a later, which

619
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 5: is nice.

620
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 2: That's handy. Okay, continuing down the gear list, A big

621
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: one here picking the right canoe for the job. What

622
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 2: are your recommendations as far as the kind of canoe

623
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 2: we need to pull off? A big expedition like this.

624
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: This is different than just canoe and down the river

625
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 2: on a sunny summer day where we're taking a lot

626
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: of stuff out there with us, and like you said,

627
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: it could be tough conditions. What is the correct tool

628
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 2: for this application? And I'll let I'll let Matt lead.

629
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 2: You looked eager.

630
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

631
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 4: I actually wrote some notes on this because I think

632
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 4: it's like it really is a huge difference, and a

633
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 4: lot of people start canoe hunting without any background information

634
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 4: in this, and it can be a make or break

635
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 4: for the success or torture of your hunt.

636
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 3: So this September, when I was bow.

637
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 4: Hunting, I had to paddle on a really sketchy, shallow

638
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 4: river to get into my tree stand. Every day I

639
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 4: have a one hundred pound old town made out of

640
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 4: plastic that I can just absolutely beat off of waterfalls.

641
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 4: Cannot portage it. I mean I can, but it's it's horrible, miserable,

642
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 4: but it's super durable.

643
00:33:58,560 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 3: It can.

644
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 4: I mean, I could probably own elephant in there right,

645
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 4: pack out anything, and that makes sense for that I

646
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 4: don't have to portage it in that particular spot.

647
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 3: Every other application.

648
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 4: I use a kevlar and I'm guessing Peter's probably gonna

649
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 4: back me up on that. But kevlar, I mean, we're

650
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 4: talking forty five pounds for your average Kevy and.

651
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 3: They can still hold several several.

652
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 4: Hundred pounds in addition to yourself. They're easy to navigate,

653
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 4: and they're pretty durable. The only other I guess possibility

654
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 4: would be in the luminum, which is tried and true.

655
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 4: They're affordable, they're pretty lightweight, and same thing, you can

656
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 4: beat them up like crazy and still float. So that's

657
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 4: kind of my take on that I would recommend. If

658
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 4: you're only getting one, probably get a kevlar. They're a

659
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 4: little bit more expensive, but it can take you almost anywhere.

660
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 5: Okay, what about you, Peter, I'd say for almost every

661
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 5: use case, kevlar for sure, just because I'm portaging one

662
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 5: of those old town Compositive or Royal X canoes. It

663
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 5: just which is your shoulders and you already have enough

664
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 5: weight with you when you're doing an adventure like this.

665
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 5: The only application I really see for aluminum is if

666
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 5: you think you might be breaking some ice coming out

667
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 5: of there, because the kevlar boats just don't have enough

668
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 5: keel to get through it easily. But the aluminums go

669
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 5: through it pretty quick. Another thing I do like about

670
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 5: aluminums is that they are heavier, so if you're dealing

671
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 5: with wind, you know, it kind of helps you track

672
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 5: a little bit straighter. But that can be mitigated in

673
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 5: a kevlar canoe if you're just adding some weight to it.

674
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 5: I've had times where, you know, even for summer boundary

675
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 5: waters trips, it's real windy and we're just going on

676
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 5: a day trip, like, all right, let's put a life

677
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 5: jacket in the front of the canoe and throw a

678
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 5: boulder in there to protect the kevlar, just to help

679
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 5: you track, especially if there's a weight differential between two paddlers.

680
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 2: See, you guys both brought up the weight thing and portaging,

681
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 2: which maybe some people aren't you experienced doing, But basically

682
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: we're talking about getting from one lake to another, from

683
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 2: one water source to another by literally picking up your

684
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: your canoe up over your head and walking it to

685
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,280
Speaker 2: the next spot. That's a big part of canoe country

686
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 2: adventures of any kind, definitely up there in the boundary waters.

687
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 2: Are there any best practices or little tips and tricks

688
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,919
Speaker 2: you guys have picked up over the years to make

689
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 2: that a less daunting or painful process because it yeah,

690
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: I mean, it could be a pain in the butt sometimes,

691
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 2: but I'm sure there's ways to make it a little

692
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 2: bit less. So what are your expert pieces of advice

693
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 2: on that little part of the experience, Matt.

694
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 4: It's like one of the great debates in canee travel

695
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 4: is how did best portage? I think it's based on

696
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 4: really how much stuff you actually have. The debate is

697
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 4: to do a through portage or to parse it out

698
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 4: if you have more than one person with you. So

699
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 4: the first person, as soon as the canoe lands, take

700
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 4: all the gear halfway, come back and get the rest,

701
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 4: and then the person paddling continues through with the canoe

702
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 4: all the way. And I have found that to be

703
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 4: a little bit more tedious. I don't prefer that method.

704
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,479
Speaker 4: I like, it's just before we land the canoe, you're

705
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 4: taking this, I'm taking that, and we're going straight through.

706
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 4: I'm actually curious to see what you have to say,

707
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,280
Speaker 4: Peter as which one works best.

708
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 3: But that is a hot topic, is how the best portage.

709
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 4: I personally just like, get it done, embrace the suck,

710
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 4: and get it over.

711
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 5: With, would you see, Peter, I'm definitely a fan of

712
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 5: single trip portages unless it's really short, you know, I'd

713
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 5: say thirty rods or less, which a road is sixteen

714
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 5: and a half feet. The big thing is make sure

715
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 5: you have everything in your canoe just packed up. Having

716
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 5: a whole bunch of loose stuff that you have to

717
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 5: carry in your hands is tedious. So when I'm in

718
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 5: travel mode, I have my nuts, canoe, chairs, rods, everything's

719
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 5: strapped into the canoe. So when we get to a portage,

720
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 5: we're pulling two packs out and the canoe is going

721
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 5: on someone's shoulders. There's not a whole bunch of organizing

722
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 5: to do, because that's the time that you spend getting

723
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 5: in and out of the canoe at the start and

724
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 5: end of the portages is really what eats up a

725
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 5: lot of time.

726
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what about actually carrying the canoe? Is there

727
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 2: any little tips there to make that less you know,

728
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 2: stressful on the body more comfortable any Is there a

729
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 2: right way to pop that sucker over your head and

730
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 2: do it or is it however feels comfortable.

731
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 5: There's a There's two methods that we show our guests here.

732
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,879
Speaker 5: The most common is kind of the buddy system, where

733
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 5: two people are lifting the canoe over your head and

734
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 5: then one person is sliding their hand down the gunwales

735
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 5: to get to the yolk and put it on their shoulders.

736
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 5: If you have a little bit more experience, you can

737
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 5: kind of do almost like a power clean and throw

738
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 5: the can you over your shoulders.

739
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 6: But it's really not a weight thing. It's more balance

740
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 6: for sure.

741
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 2: Okay, anything you'd ad Matt yoke pads, gotta have yoke

742
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 2: pads or it's just gonna eat your shoulders up, especially

743
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 2: if you have a long trip.

744
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 4: So some people make them themselves. They throw just like

745
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 4: foam pads and lash them on there. I recommend getting

746
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 4: like the correct size and they make like there's a

747
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 4: kit you can use for your canoe and kind of

748
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 4: fit your shoulder size.

749
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 3: But I can't recommend it enough.

750
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, So one thing to point out. In a lot

751
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 2: of places around quote unquote canoe country, I know, definitely

752
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 2: there by the boundary waters, you can rent canoes and

753
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 2: a lot of the skiar too. Right. You don't have

754
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 2: to buy this stuff for the trip, you can you

755
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 2: can use it for the week and just pay for

756
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: that time. Right.

757
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's something we do here. Pretty much. Everyone's renting kevlar. Nowadays,

758
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 5: we rarely send out aluminums anymore unless there's a use case.

759
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,439
Speaker 5: But I think you need to figure out how often

760
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 5: you're going to be doing this. I've had a lot

761
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 5: of clients that come up year after year than after

762
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 5: doing it three years in a row, they say, Oh,

763
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 5: this is something we're going to do yearly or twice

764
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:16,439
Speaker 5: a year for the rest of our life. It makes

765
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 5: more sense to buy a used kevlar canoe than just around.

766
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,280
Speaker 5: And I guess it also depends where you're coming from.

767
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 5: When we have people flying them, they don't really want

768
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 5: to deal with the hassle of owning a kevlar canoe,

769
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 5: whereas most of the people that buy or use an

770
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 5: inventory or from Minneapolis and the surrounding areas.

771
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. Uh okay. One last kind of

772
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 2: I guess sort of gear question that being eating when

773
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 2: you're on these kinds of trips. Do you guys like

774
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 2: to go super minimalist and just bring standard like backpacking

775
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 2: meals or do you elevate the eating experience a little

776
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 2: bit more because of the fact that you have more

777
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 2: space and a canoe and do something you know different,

778
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 2: You know, Peter we have a take on that.

779
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, So usually for first breakfast, lunch, and dinner, I'm

780
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 5: doing fresh food, you know, like steaks, surf and turf,

781
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 5: So we send people out with individually cryovac steaks. First morning,

782
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 5: we'll do breakfast burritos, so we have hardshell egg carriers. See,

783
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 5: you don't worry about those getting crushed. From there, I

784
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 5: switched over to a mixture of dehydrated and fresh food

785
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,720
Speaker 5: that's kind of non perishable. So for lunches, I'm doing

786
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 5: pbnj's salami, sandwiches, cheese, and crackers, stuff like that.

787
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 6: Them.

788
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 5: Personally, I like to do a lot of oatmeal for breakfast,

789
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 5: just because I'm trying to get on the water to fish.

790
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 5: But all our dinners are dehydrated after that, unless you're

791
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 5: doing a fish ray.

792
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 2: What about you, met, what's your what's your food game

793
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 2: look like on one of these trips.

794
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,359
Speaker 3: I used to be kind of a minimalist. I don't

795
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 3: like dealing with cooking and stuff like that.

796
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 4: But ever since I started going with the people have

797
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 4: gone with the last year, I'm definitely sold on fresh food.

798
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 4: There are ways to pack it down and make it

799
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 4: really simple. Now we have a dehydrator two, which we

800
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 4: can kind of like make some of.

801
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 3: Our own stuff.

802
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 4: My favorite Boundary Water's meal that's super lightweight, easy to

803
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 4: make is a Japanese curry with prepackaged kind of like

804
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 4: Chicken of the Sea, Chicken whatever that brand is. And

805
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 4: then minute rice all done in one pot. Takes twenty minutes,

806
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 4: easy to clean, super delicious. But meals like that are

807
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 4: just super light weight, easy to make. There's no reason

808
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 4: to spend sixteen bucks a pop on a dehydrated meal

809
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 4: if you can avoid it.

810
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can agree that. Also. The other thing

811
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 2: to mention probably is if you are going to have

812
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,879
Speaker 2: this diverse experience out there doing some grouse hunting, doing

813
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 2: some fishing, want to eat some that too, right, Like

814
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 2: bring the proper gear to be able to enjoy a

815
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 2: shore lunch. That was probably my favorite thing of my

816
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 2: whole trip was eating fresh fish right on the rocky

817
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 2: shoreline next to the lake, or eating you know, grouse

818
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 2: right you know the day of I mean it was,

819
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 2: it was fantastic and made for such a I don't know,

820
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 2: such a great a great meal and day and made

821
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 2: the whole thing better. So one of them live it up.

822
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 4: One of the most satisfying feelings on the planet is

823
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 4: to walk over the rock that your friends are setting

824
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 4: up camp on with the stringer of walleye and you're like,

825
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 4: I got it tonight.

826
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 3: I took care of it.

827
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 2: That is very primal, deep in our DNA kind of

828
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 2: thing right there. Providing. Yeah, so let's let's shift. Let's

829
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 2: shift how to provide, which is how we can actually

830
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 2: kill a deer on one of these trips. First step

831
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 2: in that, I think is probably just choosing a productive area.

832
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,359
Speaker 2: This is one of the biggest challenges I had when

833
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 2: I was learning We're trying to plan my first trip,

834
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 2: because I didn't know the area at all, and so

835
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 2: I was depending on little tips and ideas from other people.

836
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 2: But when you're looking at a map or when you're

837
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 2: starting to think through like where do I want to

838
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 2: start in this vast Superior National Forest or wherever you are, Peter,

839
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 2: what's your recommendation for someone when trying to drill down

840
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 2: to like, hey, this looks like it could be a

841
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 2: good place to deer hunt, when, like you mentioned, it's

842
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 2: a vast area and many of these other places with

843
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: lakes are big wild country. How do you pick a

844
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 2: spot to start.

845
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 5: The first thing I do is look for terrain features

846
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 5: that are different. You know, in the big woods, you

847
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,479
Speaker 5: just need to You're not going to find walking through

848
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,399
Speaker 5: straight lines of timber. Okay, there's a deer sign here,

849
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 5: so you can always call them outfitter or if you

850
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 5: call one of the CEOs around here. They're always willing

851
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 5: to talk to people about the deer population here and

852
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 5: kind of what's going on. They're not going to give away,

853
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 5: you know, any huge secrets or anything like that. But

854
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 5: I look for personally, I'm a big fan of beater ponds,

855
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 5: just a diverse you know, you'll have moose, bear pretty

856
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 5: much everything cruising through those, and it provides you with

857
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,760
Speaker 5: kind of an open area and an access point.

858
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 6: Goal.

859
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, just trying to dissect this terrain and find something

860
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 5: unique instead of just tranking through the woods.

861
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 2: What about you met anythings, any features or topography, anything

862
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 2: else that's helped you kind of isolate productive areas.

863
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 4: The only two kind of like standout land features that

864
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 4: have at least helped me consistently locate deer are pinch

865
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 4: points that connect wintering habitat to water escape routes, food

866
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 4: and stuff like that. Wintering habitat is definitely a big

867
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 4: part of staying alive for a long.

868
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 3: Time up here as deer.

869
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 4: And then the other one is muskeggs, partially for what

870
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 4: Peter said is you can actually see pretty far. And

871
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 4: the other part is that a muskeg is like its

872
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 4: own mini ecosystem. So a lot of times they'll have

873
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 4: all their patches kind of throughout, you know, like a

874
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 4: half ache or alder patch, which is good winter and habitat.

875
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 4: But then the muskeg will be surrounded by thick timber

876
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 4: and so there's good escape routes. And that's just kind

877
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 4: of what I've seen them relate to the most in

878
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 4: the boundary waters and areas like that.

879
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,280
Speaker 2: What does a pinch point look like in a place

880
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,879
Speaker 2: like this, Because I think when your typical hunter here's

881
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,240
Speaker 2: about a pinch point, they're thinking of like a narrow

882
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 2: strip of timber in between two big open crop fields.

883
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 2: You're not finding that in the boundary waters. What's what's

884
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 2: the pinch point of by you look like? What are

885
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 2: you talking about.

886
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 4: Like a like a dry creek bed or even then

887
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 4: active creek bed that is interconnecting. So let's let's just

888
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 4: say for the sake of argument that you're hunting muskekes today, right, Well,

889
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 4: there's chances are there's probably five or six of them

890
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 4: within the general area that you're hunting, and they're all

891
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 4: going to be interconnected, and every single one them is

892
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 4: going to have a pinch point that feeds water from

893
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 4: the highest elevation one to the next one. Those pinch

894
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 4: points are like highways for all wildlife, not just deer,

895
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 4: and so on my most recent hunt this last November,

896
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 4: we seriously just piked a long connection of muskegs, and

897
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 4: every single time we could find that really defined pinch point,

898
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 4: there's a deer sign. That's not to say that every

899
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 4: single connection like network of muskegs is going to have deer,

900
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 4: because there's hundreds of thousands of them in the Boundary

901
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 4: Waters and Superior National Forest. But I think it's just

902
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 4: a good starting point and the likelihood of shooting one

903
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 4: in an open area like that is exponentially higher than

904
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 4: blast and one in the timber.

905
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, that makes sense. And just to clarify,

906
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 2: like a muskeg is is basically kind of an open

907
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 2: wet landy type patch, right yep. For someone's trying to

908
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 2: look for it out there on their own.

909
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 3: They're actually much easier to hike too.

910
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 4: When you get a little bit of a frost or

911
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 4: a freeze, they can be kind of dangerous to hike

912
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 4: in there's sinkholes and stuff like that when it's when

913
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 4: it's warm outside, but getting a good first freeze, they're

914
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 4: actually extremely navigable.

915
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 2: Peter, you mentioned earlier the fact that you got to

916
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 2: watch out because sometimes you'll find something that looks good

917
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 2: and it turns out to be moose country versus whitetail country.

918
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 2: Is there any way to discern ahead of time what

919
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 2: would be likely moose versus likely whitetail so that you

920
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 2: don't make that mistake or is it kind of a

921
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 2: crap shoot?

922
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 6: For me, it's been kind of a crap shoot for

923
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 6: the most part.

924
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 5: Once you get there and you can look at the

925
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 5: height of the brows, that's kind of the first deciding factor.

926
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,399
Speaker 5: I mean, if you're in a moose country and you're

927
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 5: you know, a moose rub and a white tail or

928
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 5: are pretty distinguishable. You do in the ely area at

929
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 5: least get an overlap in certain areas, But when you're

930
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 5: looking at our range in the boundary waters, you know,

931
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 5: the eastern portion of the wilderness is going to be

932
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 5: primarily moose, and when you get to the western portion,

933
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 5: you're kind of getting into more white tail country, is

934
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 5: what I've noticed.

935
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 6: Another thing, you can find some open ridges that.

936
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 5: Have oaks on them, and you always know there's going

937
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 5: to be deer there if you can find that, but

938
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 5: you can't it's hard to discern that on satellite.

939
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 2: That is I think a helpful starting point when picking

940
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 2: a region. Now, I'm curious about the how we've picked

941
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:37,240
Speaker 2: a spot. We've paddled in, we've set up camp somewhere

942
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 2: in this region where we've seen a concentration of these

943
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 2: features that you mentioned are pretty good. I'm curious about

944
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,879
Speaker 2: an actual hunt day. You know, when we did it,

945
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 2: we would head out early in the morning, go to

946
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 2: a spot, find an ambush location, sit it out, like

947
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 2: I found an oakridge like you just mentioned. Peter and

948
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 2: I sat oak ridges a bunch. Is that what you

949
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 2: guys are usually doing. I mean, it kind of sounds

950
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 2: that you mentioned hunting pinch points, Matt, But are you

951
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 2: usually doing that kind of thing or is there ever

952
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 2: a world in which you are actually hunting from the canoe,

953
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 2: like just floating lakes and rivers looking for deer on

954
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 2: the shoreline. A. I don't know if that's legal or

955
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 2: not to do it, but is that a thing that

956
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,439
Speaker 2: is ever worth considering? Because we talked to someone last

957
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 2: week who was floating rivers and could actually, you know,

958
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 2: have a rifle floating the river and if they saw

959
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 2: a deer while they're floating the river, you know you

960
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 2: could make a move on it or anchor and go

961
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 2: after the deer. Is that a part of a part

962
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 2: of the toolkit and possibility set?

963
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 3: Matt, Yeah, it's it's legal.

964
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 4: I in my experience, I haven't seen them relate to

965
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 4: lake edges very much, but I have seen deer very

966
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 4: actively using crossings on rivers that connect lakes. Really similar

967
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 4: to kind of like my pinch point thing with muske exist.

968
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 4: You'll have swampy low areas that are connecting to giant lakes,

969
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 4: and the deer seem to relate to that. So theoretically,

970
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 4: I guess if you're on a rifle hunt, or if

971
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 4: you're a crackshot with a bow, you know you could

972
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 4: get that opportunity from the canoe. I just it would

973
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 4: be very, very very difficult to glass one up, you know,

974
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 4: across a lake and get to that deer via canoe,

975
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 4: but it is legal. Yeah.

976
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

977
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: Uh.

978
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:21,959
Speaker 2: Do you have any thoughts on that, Peter?

979
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'd say that I don't really paddle the shoreline

980
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 5: to look for white tail necessarily. I'm mostly looking for access,

981
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 5: you know, where can I get to that area? I

982
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 5: want to hunt as effectively as possible. A lot of

983
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 5: the shorelines are really steep here, so looking for an

984
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 5: area that's not just you know, thick dead balsam all

985
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 5: over the place, that's actually going to be reasonable for

986
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 5: you to get up.

987
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. Is there is there ever a

988
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 2: world in which if you were floating somewhere and you

989
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,839
Speaker 2: saw a deer you can make a move on it successfully.

990
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 2: Has that ever happened to you guys? Where? Yeah? I

991
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 2: saw a deer when I was heading to a spot

992
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 2: and I was able to make a move in some

993
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,280
Speaker 2: kind of white Peter, or is that just a crap?

994
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 6: I've never had that experience. Personally.

995
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 5: If I were to see a nice white tail on

996
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 5: the shore line, I would give it a try and

997
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 5: a heartbeat, But I've never had that opportunity up here.

998
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

999
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 4: Last September I was going out on a scouting mission

1000
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 4: technically during the season, but it was unseasonably warm, so

1001
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 4: I wasn't really worried about hunting. And I saw two

1002
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 4: bachelor bucks across the river that I was on, and

1003
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 4: so I docked the canoe, well docked whatever, put it

1004
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 4: on shore, and pushed through the woods in the general

1005
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 4: direction that I thought they were heading, and managed to

1006
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 4: set up probably one hundred and fifty yards from where

1007
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,760
Speaker 4: they were crossing. So had that had been rifle season,

1008
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 4: you know, that's a little bit more in the conversation,

1009
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,919
Speaker 4: but I think it's doable. But the other part too,

1010
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 4: is like canoeing takes a little bit of focus, and

1011
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 4: so the idea of like maintaining your course and not

1012
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,919
Speaker 4: hitting any rocks and spotting a deer and then setting up.

1013
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 3: On it, I think it's pretty challenging.

1014
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what about other hunt techniques or parts to

1015
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 2: your hunt program? Is there anything else you're doing that

1016
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 2: has led to success or that you think folks need

1017
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 2: to do other than get to a good area with

1018
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:26,919
Speaker 2: some of this terrain and putting a bunch of time

1019
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 2: in these terrain features. Is there anything else, Matt, that

1020
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 2: you would recommend folks consider whether it be something like

1021
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:35,720
Speaker 2: a call or or something else entirely.

1022
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 4: The two bucks that I had possible shots on this

1023
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 4: year in the boundary waters, we're both called in off brunts,

1024
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 4: and that was a third week of November, which, you know,

1025
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 4: I think that I think the rut is a little

1026
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 4: bit different in big woods and especially Northeast Minnesota is

1027
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 4: different than farm country in southeast Minnesota. But I think

1028
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,800
Speaker 4: that's a huge thing, especially, you know, like the theme

1029
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 4: that we keep talking about is you're trying to cover

1030
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 4: so much land. Calling is one thing that you can

1031
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 4: do to try and you know, bring them to you.

1032
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 4: So definitely grunt calling. I rattled a lot during my

1033
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 4: archery hunts.

1034
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 3: That didn't pay off. The grunt really was the only thing.

1035
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 2: So are you are you blind grunting, Like are you

1036
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 2: just grunting at a certain time period and hoping something

1037
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 2: comes in or are you using that grunt only when

1038
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 2: you see something off from the distance and then you

1039
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:31,959
Speaker 2: try to bring them.

1040
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 3: In blind grunting every hour?

1041
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 4: Well, to be fair though, really only in areas where

1042
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 4: I have at least confidence of the existence of deer.

1043
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 3: I don't just like walk through the woods.

1044
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 4: And kind of like elk calling, you know, sure if

1045
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 4: they're a signed and I'm hunting that spot, I'm blind

1046
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 4: grunting about every hour.

1047
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 2: Okay, what about you, Peter, I guess number one? Have

1048
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 2: you had success calling or rattling in areas like this?

1049
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 2: And then number two? Are there the other hunt technique

1050
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 2: things or other elements of hunt strategy worth covering?

1051
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's the grunt has been effective for me as

1052
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 5: far as when I actually see a deer bringing it in.

1053
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 5: As far as blind calling goes, I like to rattle,

1054
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 5: but only when I'm hunting on ground level, and you know,

1055
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 5: I'll just be very aggressive with then, you know, banging branches,

1056
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:29,720
Speaker 5: try to make it sound as realistic as possible. Still

1057
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 5: hunting is probably one of my favorite things to do

1058
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 5: up here, so that's kind of conducive to moving through,

1059
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 5: you know, especially the ridges up here, moving from point

1060
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 5: to point. If you have the opportunity to rifle hunt

1061
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 5: up here and do that still hunting technique, you just

1062
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 5: really need to be ready to shoot. So I had

1063
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 5: an experience where I had a chance at a decent buck,

1064
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,359
Speaker 5: but I couldn't find it in my scope fast enough,

1065
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,359
Speaker 5: and ever since then, I switched to a ghost ring

1066
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 5: site just because you got to be ready to go

1067
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 5: when you hop onto that ridge, something could be right

1068
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 5: over the top. Overall, callings seems to be pretty effective.

1069
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 5: I just try never to overdo it.

1070
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, what if you shoot one? What if you

1071
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 2: actually do end up killing a deer deep in a

1072
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 2: wilderness like this, do you guys skin it, break it down,

1073
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 2: quarter it, or do you pull that whole sucker down

1074
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 2: and lay him across the canoe and boat them out?

1075
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 2: Is one big hole package? What's best practice on that?

1076
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: If we actually get the gold medal?

1077
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 6: Peter, I think that depends on where you killed.

1078
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 5: The one I shot a deer three years ago and

1079
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 5: I brought that off hole. But one I shot last

1080
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 5: I just ended up quartering and throwing into game bags

1081
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 5: and packing it out. So I think you should be

1082
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:08,880
Speaker 5: ready for either scenario. The amount of portaging you have

1083
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 5: to do is really what's going to be the deciding

1084
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 5: on factor what route you should go, because dragging a

1085
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 5: deer across some of these portages would be an absolutely

1086
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 5: daunting task. It's hard enough to get your packs and

1087
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 5: canoe across there, and then you throw in one hundred

1088
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 5: and eighty pounds crested animal.

1089
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't imagine. Would do you have anything to

1090
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 2: add on that matt or any other kind of best

1091
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 2: practices when it comes to, you know, dealing with meat

1092
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 2: or the deer itself after a successful tagging of tagging

1093
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 2: of that critter.

1094
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 4: If you do a bear hunt in the Boundary Waters,

1095
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 4: they send you a bear hunting best practices thing, and

1096
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 4: I think it applies well to deer. If you don't

1097
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 4: have the portage a lot, you can buy dry ice

1098
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 4: outside the Bounty Waters and like small Boundy Waters communities

1099
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 4: that purpose. And so yeah, if you're not portaging bringing

1100
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 4: YETI I would say, but only if that hunt is

1101
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 4: during the warm season, so like a September early October hunt.

1102
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 3: That might be necessary.

1103
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 4: Anytime that I've hunted in the Boundy Waters though it's

1104
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 4: been sufficiently cold for a I would argue it like

1105
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 4: a twenty four hour backout, especially if you had like

1106
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 4: good game bags, keeping them dry, keeping them cool, and

1107
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 4: actually knowing how to break down an animal to get

1108
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 4: that heat off of some of those ball joints and

1109
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 4: stuff like that is imperative. So yeah, that'd be the

1110
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 4: only other input I have.

1111
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 2: We've picked an area we've executed a hunt plane, We've

1112
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 2: killed a deer. We had all the proper gear to

1113
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 2: do it. We had some damn good meals along the way,

1114
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 2: saw some beautiful stars, maybe the northern lights. We kicked

1115
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 2: it back, you know, alongside a beautiful lake. We slept

1116
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 2: in a nice warm tent. It's been an amazing experience.

1117
00:58:57,120 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 2: What what have we missed though? What is the element,

1118
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 2: the idea, the strategy, the thing to prepare that we

1119
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 2: have not covered that someone needs to know before going.

1120
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you feel like we haven't touched

1121
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 2: on that that folks really should be aware of map

1122
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 2: Maybe since we're still with you.

1123
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 4: Well, I think if you never have spent time in

1124
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 4: wilderness with the capital W, it can be daunting. So

1125
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 4: I think people need to do their research as far

1126
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 4: as first saidan, people need to do their research as

1127
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 4: far as bear safety and staying bear aware also just

1128
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 4: like general little hazards and stuff like that. I mean,

1129
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 4: we haven't really touched much on safety, but when you're

1130
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 4: in a truly truly remote area in paddling yourself out

1131
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 4: is your only way getting back to civilization, you really

1132
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 4: have to think twice about how am I cutting the

1133
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 4: wood today. How am I staying this deer? And if

1134
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 4: I make a mistake, what's my route for getting out

1135
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 4: of here? Do I know my way around? My first

1136
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 4: aid kit? I think that people get so excited about

1137
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 4: the hunt that they forget Oh yeah, I'm going into

1138
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 4: the wilderness and I need to be careful and I

1139
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 4: need to do it right. Yeah, and probably go with

1140
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 4: someone for more fun and also just for safety reasons.

1141
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, very very good point, Peter. What would you add?

1142
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean mad hit the nail right on the head.

1143
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 5: If you can bring a satellite phone. I always encourage

1144
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 5: people to do, especially if they plan on doing this

1145
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 5: by themselves. I steer people away from hatchets. If you

1146
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 5: have a woodstove, you're definitely gonna need one. But that's

1147
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 5: the number one cause of injury up here at least.

1148
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 5: So yeah, just all your footsteps, you know, when you're

1149
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 5: taking portages and stuff. It doesn't take much to roll

1150
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 5: an ankle or hurt a knee, So we tell everyone

1151
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 5: calculated steps, you know, especially when you have all that

1152
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 5: weight on your shoulders. Those a fall that would be

1153
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 5: pretty insignificant can be a little bit worse, especially on

1154
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 5: the rocky range.

1155
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 6: Features we have up here.

1156
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I gotta say, Peter, you just made my day

1157
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 2: because the last time, well not the last time, the

1158
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 2: first time I was in the boundary waters for my

1159
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 2: big trip that I've been talking about, I was documented

1160
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 2: by my buddies on their cell phone apparently being too

1161
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 2: careful and too dainty with the hatchet, trying to make

1162
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 2: sure that I didn't trying to make sure I didn't

1163
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 2: hurt myself because I was aware of what you're discussing,

1164
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 2: that it can be dangerous since I was being properly careful,

1165
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 2: and they videoed me looking like, you know, looking a

1166
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 2: little less manly than I'd like to be. And still

1167
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 2: to this day they send me this video to shame me.

1168
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 2: So thank you for validating my concern and care and

1169
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 2: proper safety protocol. I will be pointing them to this

1170
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 2: podcast forever from this point on.

1171
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, Nope, Like I've seen it personally what a hatchet

1172
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 5: can do to a hand. So yeah, I'm the same way. Man,

1173
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 5: I just put I put my hatchet on top of

1174
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 5: what I'm cutting, and then I'll actually hit that hatchet

1175
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 5: with another log typically just to be super careful.

1176
01:01:58,520 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 6: You know.

1177
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 5: It's we've We've seen people put them in their shins

1178
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 5: and all sorts of stuff.

1179
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 2: It's yeah, no good, no good, I think all right. Well,

1180
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 2: speaking of no good and speaking of that first trip,

1181
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 2: when I made my first trip to the Bounder Waters,

1182
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 2: it was originally inspired because I kept hearing about the

1183
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:23,680
Speaker 2: region from folks like the organization that you're part of, Matt,

1184
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 2: Sportsman for the Boundary Waters and backcountry hunters and anglers

1185
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 2: and all these folks talking about how special the Boundary

1186
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 2: Waters were, and then also how potentially threatened they were

1187
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 2: by a proposed mind right on the border. Since then,

1188
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 2: you know, it's been I don't know how many years,

1189
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 2: maybe seven years or five years or something like that.

1190
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 2: Since that first trip of mine, A lot's changed. There's

1191
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 2: been some updates, and then I think there's also some

1192
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 2: possible updates coming down the line. Can you give us

1193
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 2: just a quick update, Matt on where things stand with

1194
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 2: the Twin Metals mind proposal there alongside the Boundary Waters.

1195
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 2: You know, what's happened and what do we need to

1196
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 2: keep an EyeT in the future.

1197
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.

1198
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 4: So, Like you said, I work with an organization called

1199
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 4: Sportsman for the Boundary Waters, and our whole thing has

1200
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,760
Speaker 4: just been protecting the boundary waters for future generations of hunters,

1201
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 4: anglers and paddlers. It really is such a magnificent and

1202
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 4: unique place, right It's unlike any other place in the

1203
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 4: Lower forty eight and so we want to do everything

1204
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 4: we can to protect that. And like you said, the

1205
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:29,720
Speaker 4: company Twin Metals, which is a subsidiary of a Chilean

1206
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 4: mining company called Antifagasta, has had a proposal for a

1207
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:37,920
Speaker 4: copper nickel mine on the shores or near the shores

1208
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 4: of Birch.

1209
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 3: Lake, which is just outside the boundary waters.

1210
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 4: Birch Lake is connected to the Boundary Waters by the

1211
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 4: South Wishwy River, which through i think two More Lakes,

1212
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 4: is directly in the boundary waters. And so that type

1213
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 4: of mining has a pretty long track record of environmental

1214
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 4: degradation and issue acid mind drainage.

1215
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 6: What have you.

1216
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 3: And so.

1217
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 4: In the last few years that the project isn't going

1218
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 4: anywhere at least right now it's Twin Metals is alive

1219
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 4: and well.

1220
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 3: They are still set up shop.

1221
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 4: In Ely, Minnesota, still trying to get their their permits through.

1222
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 4: During the Biden administration, Interior Secretary deb Holland created a

1223
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 4: twenty year moratorium on that type of mining in the

1224
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 4: Rainy River Watershed, and that is where it's at biggest

1225
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 4: tributary to the Boundary waters region. That currently, as we're talking,

1226
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 4: that moratorium is still in place, so you cannot do

1227
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 4: nonfers mining in the Rainy River Watershed. That being said,

1228
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 4: there are some very specific intentions to remove that moratorium

1229
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 4: as soon as possible. Some of the ways that we're

1230
01:04:57,480 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 4: kind of looking at right now would be through legisl

1231
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 4: We're expecting a repeat bill to come from Representative Pete Staubert,

1232
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 4: who's my representative up in northeast Minnesota. It's called the

1233
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 4: Superior National Force Restoration Act, which sounds great, but it

1234
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 4: would yeah, sounds lovely. It would undo the moratorium, it

1235
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 4: would give the leases back to Twin Metals, it would

1236
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 4: expedite the environmental review process, and it would take away

1237
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 4: judicial ability for people to argue that it was unlawfully

1238
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 4: given to these companies. So we're definitely encouraging people to

1239
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 4: keep an eye out for that bill. It hasn't been

1240
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 4: introduced yet in the one hundred and nineteenth Congress, but

1241
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 4: surely it will. A kind of piece of good news

1242
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 4: is that HR five eight eight was introduced this session,

1243
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 4: and that is a bill that would actually create permanent

1244
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 4: protections for the Rainy River watershed. That was introduced by

1245
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:07,320
Speaker 4: Congresswoman deb excuse me, Betty McCollum. And so once that

1246
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 4: is jacketed and making its way through Congress, we'd really

1247
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:15,440
Speaker 4: love to see people support that bill as much as possible.

1248
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 3: Again, that's Hr five eight eight.

1249
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 4: That will be obviously a huge step in the right

1250
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 4: direction as far as permanently protecting the boundary waters from

1251
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:27,959
Speaker 4: nonferrist mining. And then the last thing that we're really

1252
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 4: trying to tell people to keep an eye out for

1253
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 4: is executive orders or just any kind of like federal

1254
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:37,720
Speaker 4: power to try and push this thing forward.

1255
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:40,480
Speaker 3: And you know, if I can encourage people to just

1256
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 3: pay attention.

1257
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 4: Right there's so much chaos right now with new administration,

1258
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 4: and we're concerned about this or this is going great

1259
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 4: and this and that, but things get lost in that chaos,

1260
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:53,080
Speaker 4: and so take the time.

1261
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 3: You know, if there's an executive order and you.

1262
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 4: Don't understand what it is, take some time out of

1263
01:06:57,280 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 4: your day read it. Because there have been some relatively

1264
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 4: align things with significant conservation implications as of late that

1265
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:05,960
Speaker 4: we're looking at.

1266
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:09,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you bring up a great point, which is

1267
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 2: there's a lot going on right now. It's hard to

1268
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 2: keep track of it all. It's hard to understand how

1269
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 2: it's going to impact hunters and anglers and wildlife and

1270
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 2: wild places. I know, one of the best ways to

1271
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:24,120
Speaker 2: filter all this is to join an organization or sign

1272
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 2: up for a newsletter from an organization that can help

1273
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:28,920
Speaker 2: get you the right information at the right times and

1274
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 2: help you understand it. Obviously, Sportsman for the Boundary Waters

1275
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 2: is the organization if you care about this place or

1276
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 2: this kind of adventure in that region, can you plug

1277
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 2: the organization just a little bit more tell folks how

1278
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 2: they can learn more and get involved.

1279
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1280
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 4: So, Sportsman for the Boundary Waters founded in twenty fifteen.

1281
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 4: Our website is sportsman BWCA dot org. On there you're

1282
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:58,200
Speaker 4: going to find everything from legislation's breakdown to more information

1283
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 4: about mining, and then also like avenues for you to

1284
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:04,240
Speaker 4: go do more research, you know, which I encourage everyone

1285
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 4: to do. But then also like we can talk about

1286
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 4: all the scary stuff that is going on around the

1287
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 4: Boundary Waters, but we also celebrate the Boundary Waters and

1288
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:15,240
Speaker 4: how incredible of the place it is, and it's hard

1289
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 4: to get people to care about a cause without first

1290
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:21,360
Speaker 4: recognizing the value of that place. And so I mean, yeah,

1291
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:25,240
Speaker 4: we've got everything from like fishing and hunting blogs and

1292
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:28,760
Speaker 4: stories from the back country and stuff like that. And

1293
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 4: so it's been a great honor to work with sports

1294
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 4: for the Boundary Waters where we ride that balance of

1295
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 4: celebrating how incredible the Boundary Waters is, but then also

1296
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 4: this is what you need to know, this is what's

1297
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:42,759
Speaker 4: coming down a pipe, keeping people abreast to those things.

1298
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like you said, it's so it's so much

1299
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:51,760
Speaker 2: I don't want to say easier, but maybe I'm going

1300
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:55,640
Speaker 2: about this then the wrong way. When you experience something yourself,

1301
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 2: when you have seen it with your own eyes, felt

1302
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 2: it with your own hands, breathed in that area, had

1303
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:06,800
Speaker 2: that place impact you, it becomes so much more likely

1304
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:08,559
Speaker 2: that you're going to take action to take care of

1305
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 2: it and do something about it. So if someone hears

1306
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 2: this conversation, they're inspired to check it out. They're intrigued

1307
01:09:15,320 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 2: about why there's so many people who care about it. Peter,

1308
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 2: Boundary Waters Outfitters might be someone they can reach out

1309
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 2: to possibly plan a trip.

1310
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:31,320
Speaker 5: Right Yeah, we're a full service outfitter operate summer, fall, winter,

1311
01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:34,639
Speaker 5: whether you want to do fishing, grouse hunting, deer hunting,

1312
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:39,400
Speaker 5: ice fishing, pretty much whatever you want. Our website is

1313
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:43,200
Speaker 5: Boundary Watersoutfitters dot com and yeah, check us out.

1314
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:47,840
Speaker 2: Awesome, Well, Jim, I really appreciate it. You've got me

1315
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:52,640
Speaker 2: once again wanting to head north up to canoe Country

1316
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 2: and get one of these adventures on my schedule as well.

1317
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 2: So thanks for doing that, and thanks for doing this chat.

1318
01:09:59,040 --> 01:09:59,559
Speaker 3: Thanks Mark.

1319
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Park, and that's going to do it for

1320
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:08,240
Speaker 2: us today. Thank you for joining me, Hope, this one

1321
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:10,759
Speaker 2: got you excited to get out there, hit the water

1322
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:13,679
Speaker 2: and chase some white tails of the canoe do something

1323
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:16,200
Speaker 2: a little bit new this year and have a lot

1324
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:18,280
Speaker 2: of fun doing it. So thank you for joining me,

1325
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:22,360
Speaker 2: and until next time, stay wired to Hunt.