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Speaker 1: Trust me?

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Speaker 2: Do you trust me?

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Speaker 1: Right? Ever lead you a story? Trust? This is the truth,

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Speaker 1: the only truth.

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Speaker 3: If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't

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Speaker 3: welcome to trust me. The podcast about cults, extreme belief

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Speaker 3: and manipulation from two rebels who've actually experienced it. And

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Speaker 3: I am low La Blanc and I am Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 3: And today our guest is Theo Pratt, survivor of New

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Speaker 3: Zealand religious culed Gloria Vale, and writer of the book Unveiled,

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Speaker 3: A Story of Surviving Gloria Vale. She is going to

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Speaker 3: tell us, ah so much crazy stuff about growing up

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Speaker 3: on the strictly controlled commune where girls and women all

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Speaker 3: wore the same identical dress and head coverings, where people

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Speaker 3: were assigned new names, where no one was taught the

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Speaker 3: real days of the week, and we're smacking ladies as

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Speaker 3: they were called, kept the children obedient.

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Speaker 1: This story is so wild and fascinating. She'll tell us

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Speaker 1: about Neville Cooper, is self proclaimed divine authority, her rebellious

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Speaker 1: streak that led her to imagine escaping on a tandem bicycle,

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Speaker 1: and how she felt when a documentary film crew came

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Speaker 1: to record the community. Also the dramatic story of how

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Speaker 1: she got out without even knowing where she was in

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Speaker 1: the world. We have never had a conversation quite like this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's a really unique and harrowing and fascinating story.

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Speaker 3: And we have both gotten so many dms from people

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Speaker 3: telling us to do an episode on Gloria Belle. So

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Speaker 3: I'm really happy we have finally been able to do it.

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Speaker 3: Me too, I had no idea. Yeah, same, same, Well,

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Speaker 3: we won't give too much away now that's not so

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Speaker 3: before we talk to THEO. What's your cultist thing, Megan?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I've been following this story about the group,

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Speaker 1: the University of Cosmic Intelligence. I do believe we brought

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Speaker 1: it up a couple of months ago because there were

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Speaker 1: people missing, and we haven't done too much of a

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Speaker 1: deep dive on it. But essentially the leader has been arrested,

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Speaker 1: but he's still running the group from jail. Can you

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Speaker 1: give me a refresher on what happened with her? So

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Speaker 1: there's this convicted child minister who claims to be a

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Speaker 1: god sent to earth. Perhaps he recognize the trope sure

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Speaker 1: Cuote leaders. Yeah, he started a new religious movement. It's

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Speaker 1: called the University of cosmic Intelligence. It's a pretty good name,

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Speaker 1: pretty good name, but he is in jail. And what's

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Speaker 1: been fascinating to me is how much he's been able

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Speaker 1: to control his followers still from jail. And we see

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Speaker 1: this with many different people Keither and Nary, Warren, Jeffs.

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Speaker 1: And I was kind of looking more into how does

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Speaker 1: that actually work in their favor, And there are several

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Speaker 1: ways that it does. The absence kind of makes their

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Speaker 1: myth rise, you know, and then you kind of transference

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Speaker 1: ask put more stuff onto them that maybe you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: even what do you mean? Like I remember at the

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Speaker 1: end of the Keithernary Naxam documentary, there's a woman who

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Speaker 1: was kind of on the edge of getting out, but

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Speaker 1: she seemed to be getting more caught up in his

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Speaker 1: teachings when he wasn't around her, because it was like

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Speaker 1: she was filling in the blinks with what she needed

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Speaker 1: and wanted to hear.

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Speaker 3: Like people can just be the fantasy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm interested to see how this continues to go.

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Speaker 1: We would love to talk to a survivor of this.

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Speaker 3: Certainly, was there a news story, like someone it's come

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Speaker 3: out that he's controlling them still?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and just you know, there's still six missing people.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's it.

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Speaker 1: It's a deep dive. Yeah, we need to talk to

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Speaker 1: a survivor because there's there's lots of different elements that

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Speaker 1: play in that group in particular. But I am just

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Speaker 1: I'm curious about that missing charismatic leader and them getting

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Speaker 1: more powerful when they're gone. M yeah, no, that's super interesting.

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Speaker 3: The only thing I can liken it too is when

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Speaker 3: you have a breakup and you're able to fantasize, oh

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Speaker 3: my god, and idealize the person because they're not they're

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Speaker 3: like nagging you or like doing that annoying thing they do.

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Speaker 3: So they become this like, oh, what a beautiful relationship

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Speaker 3: that was, and you're like, yeah, if you actually look

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Speaker 3: at your whole journal entries, which I have had to do,

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Speaker 3: you're like, no, no, that was not perfect. Yes, I

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Speaker 3: imagine it's all much much more heightened when.

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Speaker 1: It's your kids. It's a great that's a great parallel.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for bringing it back to real life because

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Speaker 1: I do the same. Shit.

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Speaker 3: What about you, what's your cultiest thing of the week.

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Speaker 3: I was just looking at this article. A few friends

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Speaker 3: sent me to two of our previous guests. Actually it's

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Speaker 3: about them. It's a Guardian article about Patrick Ryan and

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Speaker 3: Joseph Kelly, who are too ethical cult interventionists that we

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Speaker 3: have previously had on as guests. Highly recommend their episode.

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Speaker 3: It's been years at this point, but I just remember

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Speaker 3: loving them. They're so amazing. It just kind of gets

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Speaker 3: into what cult intervention looks like now because a lot

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Speaker 3: of people still have this misconception of it as being

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Speaker 3: this like nineteen seventies deprogramming thing, which is not thing anymore,

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Speaker 3: was very unethical, often very culty in itself. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: it just kind of like goes through some stories of

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Speaker 3: people they've done interventions with and how they try to

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Speaker 3: do it ethically, and you know, it not always successfully.

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Speaker 3: It's very difficult when you are trying to just reconnect

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Speaker 3: people to their family versus like, you know, beats new

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Speaker 3: ideas into their head.

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Speaker 1: So what are some of the methods that they suggest?

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Speaker 3: Okay, so this part of that was interesting because I

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Speaker 3: don't know if we talked about this when we did

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Speaker 3: our episode. It says, for instance, one of the tricky

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Speaker 3: parts they explained is communicating with the person who has

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Speaker 3: been given tools to block out other people's perspectives. This

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Speaker 3: set of tools or ideas is what they call a

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Speaker 3: group's gatekeeper. In one case, they determined that the gatekeeper

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Speaker 3: for one woman was that she perceived her spouse as

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Speaker 3: dogmatic and fundamentalist.

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Speaker 1: But not spiritual.

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Speaker 3: So what they did was they began to like try

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Speaker 3: to help her husband be more spiritual, to reconnect with her, oh,

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Speaker 3: so that he could be someone that she trusted more. Again,

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Speaker 3: that's cool, And you know, I think this number might

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Speaker 3: be a little excessive, but one of their ideas is

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Speaker 3: a process called fifty things. You have to find fifty

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Speaker 3: things that you can agree with the person on, because

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Speaker 3: once you agree on what's good about x, y and

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Speaker 3: z and so forth, then you are more of a

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Speaker 3: position to maybe offer some questions about that thing. Okay,

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Speaker 3: So it's just it's just different versions of kind of

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Speaker 3: the same stuff we talk about all the time, which

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Speaker 3: is the human connection and not being too aggressive and

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Speaker 3: their ideas. They have had many experiences with clients who

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Speaker 3: did push back too hard and then they lost that

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Speaker 3: family member to the cult for many, many years.

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Speaker 1: Heartbreaking.

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Speaker 3: But of course it's not a one size fits all process.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure they have myriad stories and I kind of

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Speaker 3: think we should have them back on.

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Speaker 1: I do too. I do too. Let's do it. Let's

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Speaker 1: do it. What's the name of the article.

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Speaker 3: The name of the article is how do the pros

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Speaker 3: get someone to leave a cult? Manipulate them into thinking

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Speaker 3: it was their idea? It's on the Guardian and Nick

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Speaker 3: em Nevis wrote it.

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Speaker 2: Oo.

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Speaker 3: Okay, there's so much interesting stuff in there, and hopefully

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Speaker 3: we'll talk to them again.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, let's do it. As for now, should we

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Speaker 1: get into it with the Oh yes we should. Let's go.

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Speaker 3: Welcome theopratt to trust me. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 3: joining us us from all the way across the world, Kyota.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for heading me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we were both fascinated by your story and by

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Speaker 3: this group. I really didn't know anything about it.

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Speaker 1: We've been getting emails for years to cover it and

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Speaker 1: we just.

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Speaker 3: Like didn't do this.

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Speaker 1: And I think, and we'll get to this later. I

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Speaker 1: think they did a really good job, like kind of

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Speaker 1: covering it as like a normal thing. Well, we'll get to.

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Speaker 3: It, okay, Yeah, yeah, yeah, So you spent the first

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Speaker 3: eighteen years of your life in this cult in New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: You call it a cult, yes, do you use that language?

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, okay, it's a cult.

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Speaker 3: That is our first cult from that country.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So can you first just start us off by telling

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Speaker 3: us how your parents ended up in this group called

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Speaker 3: Gloria Vale.

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Speaker 2: So they both joined secretly when mom was born in

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Speaker 2: Auckland and the cultures in the Southland which is the

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Speaker 2: lower part of New Zealand, and her be for King's

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Speaker 2: family the depth they would joining, and so she went

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Speaker 2: with him to visit and just stayed. And then my

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Speaker 2: dad was traveling around the South Island and was I

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Speaker 2: think studying to be a medic at the time in

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Speaker 2: the navy. And then the people who are already in

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Speaker 2: the cult and Gloridal were preaching at the square in

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Speaker 2: the local city and he was there instead of got

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Speaker 2: broked in that way, and then he had packed up

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Speaker 2: all the stuff and joined that week.

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Speaker 1: Got weird. Yeah, wow, what do you think they were

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Speaker 1: doing in the square that was compelling? Tradd Well?

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Speaker 2: I think Neville Cooper, the leader or his name, is

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Speaker 2: often referred to as hopeful Christian. I guess his personality.

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Speaker 4: Is very like enthusiastic and he has the ability to

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Speaker 4: I guess capture people's attention, and I guess make his

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Speaker 4: story and his play and sound really good, and that.

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Speaker 2: We're all here to look after each other and the

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Speaker 2: world doesn't look after each other, and we're going to

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Speaker 2: be one big family and that sort of thing. And

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Speaker 2: I guess we don't have that connection with your own family.

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Speaker 2: And someone's offering you a new family. It sounds like

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Speaker 2: a great idea.

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Speaker 3: Did your dad ever tell you what it was that

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Speaker 3: he liked about it? What drew him to it? Was it? That?

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Speaker 3: Was it?

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Speaker 1: The family thing?

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Speaker 2: I think so. I mean, he was brought up religious

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Speaker 2: as well, and like his dad passed away when he

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Speaker 2: was quite young, and I guess it was a connection

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Speaker 2: and that sense of family. But I think throughout my life,

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's tricky to capture my father's what he

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Speaker 2: experienced back then, because right throughout my childhood and even

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Speaker 2: right up until when I left war, well, he was

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Speaker 2: too like mentally unwell to fully express why he joined.

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Speaker 2: So I guess it's a bit tricky to sort of explain.

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Speaker 1: Right, makes sense.

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Speaker 3: So by the time that you were born, this group

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Speaker 3: that this man Neville Cooper who goes by that other name,

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Speaker 3: or went by that other name, he had started the

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Speaker 3: actual Gloria Belle location, right, like the farm when you

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Speaker 3: were born.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so they originally started on a less rural property

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Speaker 2: and they had their own individual places, but by the

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Speaker 2: time I was born, they were in the more rural

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Speaker 2: location where it is now and we're all living more together.

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Speaker 1: And how rural are we talking? What's the landscape?

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Speaker 2: The landscape? So they sit in a valley, so it's

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Speaker 2: surrounded by mountains, so there's no Wi Fi coverage or

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Speaker 2: cell phone coverage. And then the closest town is about

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Speaker 2: a forty minute drive, so gravel roads and yeah, wow,

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Speaker 2: quite rural.

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Speaker 1: Very that's I didn't comprehend how that's a true cult,

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Speaker 1: like a cult compound.

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Speaker 3: That's like the movie version of living in a cult.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so much of the story is just

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Speaker 1: cult times two, you know what I mean. It's just

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Speaker 1: this man made the most extreme cult totally. It's crazy.

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Speaker 3: Can you tell us a little bit about just like

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Speaker 3: growing up in this group, Like what was life like

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Speaker 3: for a child?

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Speaker 2: And general life was like quite exciting and like you're

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Speaker 2: in nature and like you spent your days with your

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Speaker 2: friends in the outdoors and stuff. But very quickly, I

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Speaker 2: think by the age of around five six, and when

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Speaker 2: you start going to school in Glorobels, in the schools

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Speaker 2: part of Gloroville, you have to wear like a head

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Speaker 2: covering as a girl. And I think that's when it's

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Speaker 2: sort of sanks in that the very the difference between

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Speaker 2: men and women and girls and boys, how women are

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Speaker 2: under mean, under God and under their father in that

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Speaker 2: real different sort of kickson, even from a very young age.

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Speaker 2: And then also the thing of that we're all the same,

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Speaker 2: no one could be different, No one has their own

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Speaker 2: I guess strengths or whatever. We're all the same. I

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Speaker 2: remember five years old being told that I was never

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Speaker 2: allowed to have a best framed or never allowed to

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Speaker 2: have someone that I was closer to than anyone else.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So as much as like what life was really fun

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Speaker 2: and stuff, there was also these underlying things that you're

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Speaker 2: sort of always afraid or skied of what was going

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Speaker 2: to happen? Right, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The dress code is super fascinating to me because I

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Speaker 3: think often when we picture like the lung dresses and

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Speaker 3: I caught, we picture the flds, and at least the

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Speaker 3: flds can choose the color of their dress, and in

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Speaker 3: this group if you look images or videos of the

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Speaker 3: women and girls, they're all in the same color, dark

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Speaker 3: blue like pilgrim dress with this like head covering. They

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Speaker 3: look like Pilgrims, would you say, right, Megan, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's like just another level I guess of cohesion and

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Speaker 3: everybody looking.

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Speaker 1: The same and locked a new level in so many areas.

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Speaker 3: Like yeah, wow, like a lot of groups would be

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Speaker 3: like you have to wear this, but like express yourself

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Speaker 3: within that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we see a lot of like but not in red.

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Speaker 1: But this man was like, I like blue, It'll all

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Speaker 1: be blue. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I think it's also a way to

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Speaker 2: like separate you even more, and like if you're ever

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Speaker 2: out in the in the outside world, it's really segregated

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Speaker 2: you from everyone else in a way. So it's also

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Speaker 2: being the same within the community, but also really making

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Speaker 2: that point that you're not of the world.

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Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, what did the boys and men wear? Did

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Speaker 3: they all have to wear the same thing or did

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Speaker 3: they have some freedom in their clothing?

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Speaker 2: No, they all sort of wore the same thing, so

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Speaker 2: it tended to be like dark maybe blue trousers and

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Speaker 2: like a light blue shirt. Okay, but it couldn't be jeans.

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Speaker 2: He hated jeans for some reason.

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Speaker 1: Why why do you think he hated jeans? Do you

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Speaker 1: have any theories? I didn't know.

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Speaker 2: I think said it was like the worldly people had jeans.

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Speaker 3: Right, So the goal was for people to see you

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Speaker 3: as different or for you guys to be separated from everyone. Like,

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Speaker 3: what do you think he wanted from that?

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Speaker 2: I think part of it was that he wanted us

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Speaker 2: to be seen as different, but also us to know

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Speaker 2: that we were different as well. So I think it

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Speaker 2: was like a two way thing.

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Speaker 3: To be isolated.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and how did you guys perceive the outside world?

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Speaker 2: We you perceived it as like everyone was and everyone

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Speaker 2: was going to hell and everyone was sad and yeah,

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Speaker 2: just that everyone was just evil. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Man, was that scary? Like when you would see people

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Speaker 3: on the outside, were you afraid of them?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: A little bit, Yeah, definitely. And I think even like

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Speaker 2: thinking about it in terms of how we viewed people,

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Speaker 2: they used to preach that first control was evil and

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Speaker 2: contraception and that women literally murdered their babies and so

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Speaker 2: like if people even visited, Like thinking about how we

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Speaker 2: viewed people on the outside, if we saw a family

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Speaker 2: and they only like had two kids or they didn't

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Speaker 2: have kids. We literally used to think that these women

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Speaker 2: were murd like flushing whole babies down the toilet, because

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Speaker 2: that's what we were told and like showed videos of

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Speaker 2: like I think even that part. You used to look

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Speaker 2: at people on the outside and think, like, that's how

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Speaker 2: evil they are. They'd literally murder their kids. That's so crazy,

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Speaker 2: and so like that sort of brainwashing and that fear

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Speaker 2: of the outside was really ingrained in us from like

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Speaker 2: really young.

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Speaker 3: Can I ask you, because I was watching the series

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Speaker 3: on Amazon that's just called Gloria Belle, and were there

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Speaker 3: shows that were put on by the group for the

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Speaker 3: outside world? Can you talk about those because that seems

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Speaker 3: like such a contradiction of sorts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So they used to have these shows that they

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Speaker 2: put on every second year, and it was in winter

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Speaker 2: time in New Zealand, and so they would open up

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Speaker 2: for anyone on the outside to come, and it was

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Speaker 2: almost like a way to recruit people, not that they

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Speaker 2: ever did, but they it was their way to recruit people,

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Speaker 2: and I guess show people that it's a great place

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Speaker 2: to live and a way to like preach the gospel

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Speaker 2: to the world sort of thing.

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Speaker 3: So all these outsiders would be coming into your community.

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Speaker 3: That's it seems scary given the framework that you were given.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was almost like a time for young

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Speaker 2: people and people in Guaribal to like prove to the

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Speaker 2: leader that they were supportive of the church and like

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Speaker 2: for them to like preach to all these people. Like afterwards,

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Speaker 2: there would be like hours where like lots of people

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Speaker 2: from Guaribal would go among everyone and preach to them

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Speaker 2: to like try and convert them.

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Speaker 1: Wow, what was the like mean message that y'all were

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Speaker 1: preaching that he was trying to get out to people?

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Speaker 2: Pretty much like I think a lot of it was

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Speaker 2: like that the Lord was going to return and if

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Speaker 2: they didn't get saved, then they were all going to hell.

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Speaker 2: So that real fear based message or like joining the

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Speaker 2: church is the only.

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Speaker 1: Way and this is this Gloria Belle is the only way. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: They were pretty much taught that with the New Zealand

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Speaker 2: we were the only true Christians, and then the other

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Speaker 2: true Christians in the world were like the Jews that

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Speaker 2: or like churches in Middle Eastern countries or whatever that

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Speaker 2: were being persecuted for their faith. Other than that we

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Speaker 2: were like the only true Church of God.

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Speaker 3: That's an interesting combination. Yeah, but the ideas are kind

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Speaker 3: of similar.

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Speaker 1: Really, m.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, can you talk a little bit about like on paper,

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Speaker 3: these beliefs sound pretty run of the mill for a

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Speaker 3: lot of like evangelical Christian groups, but obviously like the

355
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Speaker 3: way they're put into practice is a lot more extreme.

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Speaker 3: But what are some of the basic beliefs of the group.

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Speaker 2: That we should be like in the world but not

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Speaker 2: of it, but also that whole thing around like baptism,

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Speaker 2: like choosen when you baptized, being separate from the world,

360
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Speaker 2: and just like the whole arranged marriage thing. But it's

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Speaker 2: all sort of based off the New Testament apparently. And

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Speaker 2: then they made their own like what we Believe, which

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Speaker 2: was like this big book that they made which had

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Speaker 2: some New Testament and then some of their own versions

365
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Speaker 2: of what they thought how you should live. And then

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Speaker 2: they had a commitment document that you signed around the

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Speaker 2: age sixteen to eighteen that you have to sign if

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Speaker 2: you want to like get married or be part of

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Speaker 2: the church or whatever. Yeah, and then in general they

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Speaker 2: believed that once you signed that document, if you left

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Speaker 2: the community, you would damning your own soul to hell.

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Speaker 2: And then also your children, if you had children.

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Speaker 3: Also your children, would your children have to do with it?

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Speaker 1: It's not fair, I mean, none of us are.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they used approach that. It's because as parents, if

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Speaker 2: your children, I guess at the time weren't baptized, so

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Speaker 2: they believe once you baptized yourself, then you cover your

378
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Speaker 2: own soul in terms of salvation and getting to heaven.

379
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Speaker 2: But if you have young children, then you're their way

380
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Speaker 2: to heaven. So that's why it's based off how yours

381
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Speaker 2: parents behave.

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Speaker 1: M m m hmm.

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Speaker 3: Interesting what we're you gonna say?

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Speaker 4: My again?

385
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Speaker 1: I was going to say the commitment document was so

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Speaker 1: interesting because it seems like when the community moved to Gloriaville,

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Speaker 1: it became something where like all of the income streams

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Speaker 1: went to the same place with the cult, and this

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Speaker 1: commitment is kind of also saying financially, here is all

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Speaker 1: of my life and all of my money.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's sort of where it came from. I mean,

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Speaker 2: once the more generations were born into it sort of

393
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Speaker 2: didn't make sense in terms of giving all your money

394
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Speaker 2: because you didn't really have any to begin with. But

395
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Speaker 2: it was more just that control as well.

396
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's a lot of overlap. I mean

397
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Speaker 3: I'm hearing certain things that overlap with the two by

398
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Speaker 3: twos with Megan's group, and there's also a lot of

399
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 3: overlap with with fundamentalist Mormons and in particular the FLDS

400
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Speaker 3: because at least the way they used to be, because

401
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 3: it was a very contained community where all the money

402
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:26,640
Speaker 3: went back into the community and nobody really had their

403
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 3: own money. It all would go into this like trust

404
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 3: that the church owned. So were people working and like

405
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Speaker 3: what if you needed clothes?

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Speaker 1: Like how how would it work economically? I guess.

407
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Speaker 5: Yeah.

408
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Speaker 2: So they had their main businesses, which was farming, and

409
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Speaker 2: then the other way they earned their money was there.

410
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Speaker 2: And in New Zealand, when you have kids, you get

411
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Speaker 2: a subsidy per child depending on what your husband earns.

412
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Speaker 2: So they would all put all the men on really

413
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Speaker 2: low incomes. And then they don't believe in contraception, so

414
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 2: they get all the money from that as well, and

415
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Speaker 2: then it all comes into one bank account or however

416
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 2: they work it. But so there's one person that buys

417
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Speaker 2: everything for everyone, and then all the clothes are made

418
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Speaker 2: in Rovale.

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Speaker 3: Well that makes sense, I guess given the uniform.

420
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's all made and then everything else is communal,

421
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Speaker 2: So like all the meals, all the washing's done communally.

422
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Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's a farm, there's cows, there's dairy cows.

423
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Speaker 3: There's like it's a self sustained yeah yeah.

424
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Speaker 2: Yeah. So they had their own electricity and own water

425
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 2: supply and then all of that was sort of same.

426
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Speaker 2: But obviously they don't watch TV. We had movies, but

427
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Speaker 2: they were all edited, and they edited all the movies

428
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Speaker 2: and they tended to be like warm movies or movies

429
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Speaker 2: about people dying or bad things happening in the world,

430
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Speaker 2: like nine to eleven. They played nine to eleven or

431
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 2: but it was edited as well. And then like they

432
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Speaker 2: couldn't we couldn't watch movies where like you know, kids

433
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 2: movies where animals talk. Yeah, you couldn't watch things like that.

434
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Speaker 2: Why even because that was not good because animals don't talk.

435
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 2: Can't talk to animals? How can humans have a connection

436
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 2: with animals? Even like the kids books were all edited

437
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 2: because they don't believe in birthdays or women wearing jeans,

438
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: or the days of the weeks are changed. So in

439
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: gore of other days of the weekest first day, second day,

440
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 2: third day, and then the months of the year or

441
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 2: like first month, second month, third month. So yeah, all

442
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: the kids books and all our books were edited. So

443
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 2: for example, if it had so and so's birthday, happy birthday,

444
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 2: and they would twin over that, or if a woman

445
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,959
Speaker 2: was wearing jeans and a book it was we had

446
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: to draw and where drew skirts over top? Wow, everythink

447
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 2: was edited.

448
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: How did they edit the nine to eleven footage just

449
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 1: out of curiosity? What was the purpose there?

450
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like they just would go into like

451
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 2: things where I don't know what part of that they

452
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,719
Speaker 2: might have eaten. They would eat it out things like

453
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 2: sexual scenes or scenes where it talks about the world

454
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 2: being millions of years old.

455
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 5: Or.

456
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 2: Or any facts that they didn't really believe in. And

457
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 2: that's how we like things like.

458
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 3: That, right, So it's not just like sex and violence,

459
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 3: it's like any belief system we don't like an animals.

460
00:25:54,840 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, very, it's so fun. Does the animals? Oh

461
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: they're so cute. And I loved how in the book

462
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: you guys would like hold up the you know, skirts

463
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: that you drawn on over the thing to the light

464
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: to like see where the jeans were. Because kids are

465
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: curious and they're like, oh my gosh, it's jeans. And also,

466
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: I think it's a really important point to make that

467
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: you're being schooled through the system, your being first day,

468
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: second date, thirday. So if you go try to join

469
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: the world, you already are like what's a Wednesday?

470
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, had you heard Wednesday? Like did you know

471
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 3: the names of the week?

472
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: No?

473
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 2: Wow, I knew that, like you hear sort of like

474
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 2: from holding up the books you can see other days

475
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 2: of the way. You don't really know what.

476
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 1: Is what all right?

477
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,239
Speaker 2: What day is for wah or anything. So you had

478
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 2: to learn.

479
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: Oh, that is unbelievable.

480
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 3: The disorientation. It's unbelievable upon leaving a group Like that

481
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 3: sounds well, we'll get into that, but that's crazy.

482
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: You are one of my favorite characters of all time,

483
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: like your like punk Rocket. I don't know, there is

484
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: something so incredible about this story that I've never seen

485
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: anybody do anything like that. So, yeah, we'll get into it.

486
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: What else should we set up?

487
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 3: Well, I want to hear a little bit about I mean,

488
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 3: so many groups have this, but again, this is like

489
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 3: a more extreme version like the way that women are

490
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 3: expected to have children and have children and have children

491
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 3: and go back to work, like kind of immediately after

492
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 3: having children. Can you talk about women's role in the

493
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 3: community and what was expected.

494
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, like women are expected to go to work right

495
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: away and that we all can look after each other

496
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 2: and we're one big family, because they don't really want

497
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 2: families to be their own a guest family. So if

498
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 2: you put all kids together and put the woman back

499
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,719
Speaker 2: to work, like even it didn't even make sense. Married

500
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 2: married women that have had kids, obviously they're called married

501
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: women were seen back to work in the young like

502
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 2: twelve year old thirteen yard girls would look after the

503
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 2: kids so that the moms could work, which doesn't even

504
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 2: really make sense in a way, but anything to sort

505
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 2: of stop a connection between like a mother and child

506
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 2: or a family. I think that's sort of like the

507
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 2: game behind it.

508
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: It's very children of God, ask where they are, Like,

509
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 1: you know, it was just like the family unit, doesn't

510
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 1: matter that that's the kid's table, you guys, bla la

511
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: da da dut Well, that's just like yeah, so sick

512
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: the sea organ scientold you.

513
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 3: I feel like they're just echoes of every other cult

514
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 3: in this cult, it's got all all the things packed together.

515
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then the work that y'all were required to

516
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: do and that the women were required to do directly

517
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: after giving birth. And of course you're not supposed to

518
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: give birth at a hospital. You're supposed to do it

519
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: at home, and you were born in a hospital because

520
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: you're a rebel.

521
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 3: What would it mean if a woman had about the

522
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 3: woman if she had a baby in the hospital, it.

523
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 2: Would mean that she obviously didn't have faith in God,

524
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 2: or that she didn't believe in the church or like, yeah,

525
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 2: it was like shame on the woman, and not necessarily

526
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 2: in the husband or the father. It was all the

527
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 2: woman's fault for not having faith.

528
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 3: So if something goes wrong with your pregnancy and you

529
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 3: have to go to the hospital, that means you're a

530
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 3: sinner and you've done something wrong, that's.

531
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And all that you were willing to push through

532
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 2: the pain or like push through to have your baby

533
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 2: naturally or at home, and so you wanted to rely

534
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 2: on rather instead of relying on God to give you strengths,

535
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 2: you had to rely on the hospital system.

536
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, did you see anyone be put in

537
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 3: danger because they didn't want to end up in the

538
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 3: hospital because they didn't want that stigma.

539
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 2: You often saw that during pregnancies. So for example, I

540
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 2: remember seeing women who were having babies that had been

541
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 2: told that they should not have any more babies, that

542
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 2: their pregnancies impact infected them SLP made their lives so

543
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: bad that like their leagues would burst and like they'll

544
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: just be blood everywhere, like from their veins or like

545
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: women that could have walked their whole pregnancies and women

546
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: that just were bleeding like just I think just that

547
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 2: care of woman and that they just had to carry on.

548
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 2: And these women would literally just carry on doing the

549
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: washing or doing the cooking or cleaning with their leagues

550
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: bleeding out. Whoa they were just like God's gonna save me.

551
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 2: I'm putting my faith in God.

552
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: Even if a guy didn't see you. If you die,

553
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: that's the God's will, Yeah, exactly.

554
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 3: And what if you get sick, just like as a

555
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 3: non mother, like if you have to go to the er,

556
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 3: like and you're a dude, I guess, like what happens?

557
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Anything?

558
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: They typically didn't go like often wouldn't go to the

559
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: hospital the district, like the nurses from the outside would

560
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 2: come in, although do regular visits. Sometimes I think once

561
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 2: a month a doctor used to come in. But even

562
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: in those appointments, you had to get approval to go

563
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: to that appointment, and then your might let as a child,

564
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 2: your mom might go with you to the appointment, but

565
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: you still had to have another woman or another person

566
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 2: assigned by the leaders to sit in. So even in

567
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 2: those appointments, you never were alone to actually express what

568
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: was happening. There was always someone else that gave your

569
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: approval to what you could talk about or what you

570
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 2: could access. Wow, and then things like needing to go

571
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: the dentist or anything like that had to all be approved.

572
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 2: So it really depended on who you were related to.

573
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 2: If you were like the leaders, children or family, you

574
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 2: had better access to healthcare. So like the hierarchy system

575
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 2: was definitely red or yeah.

576
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 3: Wow, the level of control is so tight in terms

577
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 3: of ability to communicate with the outside but also just

578
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 3: with each other. I mean that sounds so suffocating to experience.

579
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 3: I was going to say to grow up in but no,

580
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 3: definitely also for the adults, that just sounds suffocating. Were

581
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 3: you in the group when the docu series that I

582
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 3: watched was filmed?

583
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 2: Was that the three part one?

584
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 3: Yes, I watched episode one. It was twenty twelve. I

585
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 3: think I would have been do you remember any of

586
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 3: that filming or like what the leader thought of that.

587
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 2: They controlled everything that got put in and every weird

588
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: the film crew they went and like all the interviews

589
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: were obviously people that did them were all chosen. I

590
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,959
Speaker 2: think in like the later episodes, some of them were

591
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 2: done just not long before I left. I remember thinking,

592
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 2: I do not want to be in these documentaries because

593
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 2: I'll just come into the kitchen and film and I'll

594
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: I knew that I was going to leave soon, so

595
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 2: I didn't want to be in them. I remember I

596
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 2: was making cheese at the time, and they wanted to

597
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 2: come and film me making cheese, and I just keep

598
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 2: like making up excuses, Oh no, I'm not doing anything excite,

599
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 2: like the cheese is still seating or whatever it was

600
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 2: up to, because I just did not want to represent

601
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 2: Gloro Belt at all. But at the same time, you

602
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 2: felt like when the cameras are going out, like you're

603
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,239
Speaker 2: an animal in a zoo, Like you just felt like

604
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 2: people just wanted to watch you look at you, and

605
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 2: you're just like this weird animal in the zoo sort

606
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 2: of vibe.

607
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean it's fascinating to watch because you I mean,

608
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 3: there's a young man talking about his arranged marriage and

609
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 3: how excited he is for his marriage to be arranged,

610
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 3: and he's got like three options of girls, and you know,

611
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 3: like the whole thing just feels so so so so staged.

612
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: Propaly young Yeah, yeah, yeah.

613
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 3: Every word out of somebody's mouth is like, I love

614
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 3: being here. It's wonderful, you know.

615
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: Oh and he might a man might like being there

616
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: of his you know.

617
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 3: But even you know, he he obviously even didn't have

618
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 3: the freedom, you know, to make the choices.

619
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: Well, and that was an interesting point you made that

620
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: people aren't really allowed to talk to each other because

621
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: you're supposed to snitch on each other. Correct, you don't

622
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 1: really know how anybody feels about anything. Not really, that's scary.

623
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 2: I'll date down you never know.

624
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: So was that incredibly lonely growing up? Like?

625
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 3: How do you function when you are kept from having

626
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 3: meaningful connection with your family and people in your community?

627
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 2: I think well, I functioned by going into the bush,

628
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 2: and I also functioned by like writing things down. But

629
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 2: then even with writing things, like my mum used to

630
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 2: find what I had written and like get rid of it,

631
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 2: because she was like, well, if someone comes to a

632
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 2: room and looks through things, you'll be in trouble. And

633
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 2: so even in that case, you just didn't there was

634
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 2: no way to fully bear yourself. I mean I was

635
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 2: lucky I had a few really close friends, but they

636
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 2: always want you to like tell on your friend or

637
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 2: they will manipulate it you and be like you can

638
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 2: tell us anything, we won't tell any the other leaders.

639
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 2: We're on your side. So then you tell them how

640
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 2: you really feel, and then it blows up. Like I

641
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 2: remember supporting one of my friends and saying like it's

642
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 2: not fear how she's being treated or something like that,

643
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 2: like family should be able to talk to everyone and stuff.

644
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 2: And then the next day my friend was kicked out

645
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: because I had sort of like supported her and like

646
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 2: tried to help her. But because I did that, she

647
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 2: had to go, oh no. So it's like you'd even knew,

648
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 2: like you think you're helping someone, but it could backfire

649
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 2: at anytime.

650
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 3: I want to know about Neville Cooper, who while he

651
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 3: was in the group, he changed his name to Hopeful Christian.

652
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 3: What did you how did you see him growing up?

653
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: What was he to everybody.

654
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 2: He was supposed to be like the grandfather figure to everyone.

655
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 2: We sort of saw him like as just a very

656
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 2: scary person and that you just didn't know what he

657
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,760
Speaker 2: was going to do. But he also was like fun

658
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 2: and like just very erratic, Like it would be like,

659
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 2: let's play that the brass band's going to come out

660
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 2: and play everyone a song in the middle of breakfast,

661
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 2: or let's march around the buildings and sing a song,

662
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 2: which as a child you sort of like think that's exciting,

663
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 2: but as you get older, it's sort of like you

664
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 2: just didn't know what he was going to be like.

665
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 2: And then growing up you always feel like he's like

666
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 2: the person that's never going to die, the Lord's going

667
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: to come back before he ever dies, and he's like

668
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 2: the ultimate person. But yeah, as we got older, we

669
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 2: definitely referred to like him and the leaders as SS officers,

670
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 2: like secret service because and I remember the oftener meetings

671
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 2: would be like everyone say praise God. And I remember

672
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,720
Speaker 2: always being like under my breath because obviously they showed

673
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 2: us all the footage of the holocoust and we under

674
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 2: my breath. May and my friends used to be like

675
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 2: Hi Hitler, like because that's sort of like the Vibey gave.

676
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's definitely serving something similar.

677
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 3: Did you find him, like did you believe that he

678
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 3: had any special power?

679
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,439
Speaker 2: I mean when I was younger, you sort of did,

680
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 2: like you think, thought that he knew what he was

681
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: talking about and God definitely gave him visions. But as

682
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,879
Speaker 2: you get older, you realize he's just like a very

683
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 2: angry person and if it doesn't go his way, then

684
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 2: it's over.

685
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 3: I would love to know more about your rebellious spirit

686
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 3: and when that began and how that evolved as you

687
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 3: got order.

688
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's sort of again from a very

689
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 2: young age, like without me realizing, like even I look back.

690
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 2: They used to make these things called portfolios, but like

691
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 2: when you're in pre school about your development and like

692
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 2: your pictures in them and stuff, and they used to

693
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 2: put like little quotes or little things that you did.

694
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 2: And some were like I was like three or four,

695
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 2: and some of them were like doesn't like to show

696
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: any affection, can be cautious to accept love from anyone,

697
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: or other things were like likes to do ugly little

698
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 2: things to people sometimes.

699
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: People sometimes being a person, Yeah, a person in presquat yeah, and.

700
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 2: Then I mean when I was about five or six,

701
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 2: I remember watching these boys in my class make fun

702
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,720
Speaker 2: of like one of the other girls, and I remember

703
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 2: telling the boy, I'm going to get a machitty and

704
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 2: cut your head off. I'm so obsessed with there, and

705
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,720
Speaker 2: I've been taken into the cupbet and being like given

706
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 2: a hiding. But I literally like my brothers, they had

707
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 2: older brothers and they had macheties.

708
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 5: Literally yeah, yeah, So I think those six from young,

709
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 5: but then as I got older, like I think it

710
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 5: was around to eleven twelve, one of my best friend's

711
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 5: family disappeared overnight.

712
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 2: And after that, I remember we used to have tangent bikes.

713
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 2: We're like a few of you ride the bike, and

714
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, I want to get my friends out

715
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 2: of here. We just have to make it to the

716
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: main road and then we can get help. And I

717
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 2: remember trying to bike me and my friends down like

718
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 2: out of the community, which was like a good ages away,

719
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 2: and my friends yeah on the bike, but my friends

720
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 2: like just stopped biking like they wouldn't help me, and

721
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 2: they were like, where are you taking us? And I

722
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 2: was like, I'm trying to get us out of there,

723
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 2: but then they all refuse.

724
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: Then that didn't have that sucks.

725
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, you made a valiant effort, admirable.

726
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: And you need everybody to participate on a tan and bake.

727
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: Just the image of the it's a movie, like you

728
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: have to it's such a movie movie in the in

729
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,280
Speaker 1: the in the outfits.

730
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 3: I mean, wow, yeah, what an image. So you kind

731
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 3: of stopped believing in it then, right, you were out

732
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 3: on that.

733
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I was so terrified that,

734
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 2: like nibl Cooper used to preach about, I mean, I

735
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 2: got baptized, I think at nine, and so obviously after

736
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,359
Speaker 2: that you're in charge of your soul and whether you

737
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,240
Speaker 2: get to heaven. And I did, in some ways believe

738
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 2: Nil Cooper was right in the way that he used

739
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: to pray that if you took communion unworthily, you would

740
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 2: die in your sleep that night. So like every night

741
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 2: on Sunday night, I'd be worried that I was going

742
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 2: to die. So like there was that rebellious thing of

743
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 2: like wanting to get out, but also that experience of

744
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 2: like being so scared, so worried. Yeah, So it was

745
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 2: like this mixed thing. I had a cousin who had

746
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 2: really fair skin, and I always just to think that

747
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 2: it was because she had no sin, because to be

748
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 2: pure and white, and so I think and just punishing yourself,

749
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 2: so working really long hours or like doing things to

750
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 2: prove to people. I thought that that was the way

751
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 2: that I would get God's help or God's attention to

752
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 2: get to heaven. So you sort of do things to

753
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 2: almost not talk to yourself, but you think that's the

754
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 2: way you're going to get to heaven.

755
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes perfect. So is it?

756
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 3: Is it the more that you suffer, the more virtuous

757
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 3: you are.

758
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 2: Yeah? That almost when I write about in my book,

759
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 2: like you live to die in Glorobal, like the only

760
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: way you're going to get out of Glorobel life when

761
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 2: life was so ship in Glorobal and you feel like

762
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,479
Speaker 2: you just can't go on, you just wash you could

763
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 2: die because that's the only way out of this life.

764
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's a weird thing sort of to

765
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 2: experience at such a young age.

766
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 3: Is the Gloriaville having a cool place at least? Like

767
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 3: what are they marketing the afterlife as just like.

768
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,240
Speaker 2: That we're going to be with the angels and gold

769
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 2: and we're all going to be pure and there's going

770
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 2: to be no more tears and no more sorrow.

771
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 1: Of that sort of vibe that was the two by

772
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 1: two line, no more tears, no more sorrow.

773
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 3: Well, I feel like there's been a couple of the

774
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 3: same yeah lines.

775
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: I feel very yeah. I mean yeah, were there like

776
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 1: times of levity? Because I realized in the two by twos,

777
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: by making it so starkly dark and sad, when something

778
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: slightly funny did happen, it was like so funny. So,

779
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: for example, in the two by twos, you have to

780
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: choose to get baptized, and once you choose, you are

781
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: responsible for your own soul. It's a very big deal.

782
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: You don't do it in childhood, you like do it

783
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: as an adult that has chosen. And so my sister

784
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: made her choice to get baptized, and she was walking

785
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: out to do it and she fell, and so she

786
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: baptized herself. Everyone like no one could brough like it

787
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: was very funny. Was there levity to anything in that way?

788
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,399
Speaker 1: Were people laughing though? I have to know people were

789
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: swallowing it, people like it was like people were dying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

790
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: Was there a sense of any levity or was like

791
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: that not even an option, because this seems like a

792
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:51,879
Speaker 1: much higher control group.

793
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 2: It didn't seem to be lacking a good seat of

794
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,720
Speaker 2: But you used to have celebration days, so like days

795
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 2: with a blow up bouncy castles and like you would

796
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 2: get lollies and like it's just like a day of

797
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 2: no work, and it was like it supposed to be fun.

798
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 2: And that was sort of the way that if something

799
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 2: like as you said, like there had been like this

800
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 2: bad time or someone had died or people had left.

801
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 2: That was sort of never Cooper's way of like making

802
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 2: everyone feel happy again and like bringing every one back

803
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 2: together that it's all okay and we're all happy. And

804
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 2: then the other time they really celebrated things was when

805
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: people got married.

806
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh and what a great encouragement to get married

807
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: then too. Yeah, that's the one time that's fun. I'll

808
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: get married my arranged partner. Yeah.

809
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 3: It sounds like he was chaotic, so like there'd be

810
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 3: like little bursts of fun and then you didn't know

811
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,760
Speaker 3: when you were going to be have to be afraid again.

812
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a weaver of trauma buns. I was gonna

813
00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: yeah people controlled its mastermind. Yeah, yeah, can you tell

814
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: us your your parents had normal names before they joined

815
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 1: the group.

816
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 3: What were their names after they joined the group?

817
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 2: Yes, after they joined the group, my mom's name was Humility.

818
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 2: They got married and their married name was Faithful, so

819
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 2: they were Humility Faithful. That was our family name. And

820
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 2: then my dad's name was Seemi normal Peter.

821
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:25,760
Speaker 1: Oh, your dad got to be Peter? Okay?

822
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then last name faithful.

823
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: And the reason that he changed people's name was from

824
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: the Bible, where it wasn't Simon became Peter. Jesus made

825
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: Simon become Peter. So I guess Peter would be a

826
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 1: sensical name and that right.

827
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but we have hopeful Christian humility, faithful, I

828
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 3: mean were.

829
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:44,280
Speaker 1: There are a lot of other names like that.

830
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 2: Very bizarre names like beloved, righteous, kindness, submissive, submissive, submitted,

831
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 2: which is terrible. Wow, how niaive?

832
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: They are so crazy?

833
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 2: Method or truthful, all those that like attribute names.

834
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 3: Almost Yeah, were you meant to live up to the

835
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 3: specific thing that your name was?

836
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 2: Yeah? So, like my birth name was honey faithful, honey honey. Yeah,

837
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 2: so I was supposed to be sweet and some massive

838
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 2: I've forgotten the Bible burst, but it's something about sweet

839
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 2: to your taste like honeycomb or something like how your

840
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 2: words are supposed to be kind and yeah.

841
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 3: Which is like keep sweet. I mean, all of it

842
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 3: is just a way to strip individual identity and make

843
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 3: people just be like a, what's the word that I want?

844
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: Copy? Carbon copy? Sure, let's go with that.

845
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, robot curbon copy. Yeah yeah, robots, Yeah totally.

846
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,919
Speaker 3: Can you tell us what smacking ladies were?

847
00:46:53,640 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 6: Oh, the woman that replaced your parents, if they were away,

848
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 6: then they would be the smacking ladies.

849
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: Is that what you're making Yeah yeah, yeah.

850
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so impressed. Like when you in press school

851
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 2: and you did something bad, the teachers wouldn't smack you,

852
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 2: but they'd try and keep either your mom to come

853
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 2: or they would have an assigned lady that would be

854
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 2: the one to come. If your parents your away or

855
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 2: weren't around or whatever, that they would be the smacking lady.

856
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 2: So it was normally like older women in the community

857
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 2: or woman that hadn't gotten married for some reason, then

858
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 2: they would be the smacking lady.

859
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: So we have spiritual mental then physical abuse that like

860
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: a very insane level. Yeah yeah yeah, and of course

861
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 1: we'll we get into it. There's sexual abuse. I mean,

862
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 1: every abuse imagina well is just running rampant in this community.

863
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, did you have an inkling that the leader had

864
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,839
Speaker 3: gone to prison before while you were still in the group.

865
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 2: I sort of I knew about it, but not the

866
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:05,760
Speaker 2: extent of it, because growing up, we were always taught

867
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 2: that we knew that he went to prison, but we

868
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 2: didn't know why. We were taught that he went to

869
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 2: prison because he was being persecuted for his faith. That's

870
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 2: what we were told.

871
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a bit about how you decided

872
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: to leave and how you left?

873
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 2: So it was a bit of a long journey in

874
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 2: terms of I knew that I wanted to leave eventually

875
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 2: from about the age of fourteen, but I didn't know

876
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 2: how that would look like. I think knowing that once

877
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 2: I left, I was going to be cut off from

878
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:41,240
Speaker 2: my family was quite a lot to get your head around. Yeah,

879
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 2: for me, so trying to push it out as long

880
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 2: as I could was like the hardest thing. So it

881
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 2: was definitely the longest four years of my life. And

882
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 2: there was a couple of times where I almost left,

883
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 2: like getting secret leaders out to something because I had

884
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 2: a brother that left before me, and he came to

885
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 2: pick me up once and then the leaders found out

886
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 2: and they all went down to the gate and the

887
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 2: parked cars along and they stopped it from happening. And

888
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 2: so then I was like, no, I'm not going to go,

889
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 2: not right now? Was I don't want to go like this?

890
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 3: He was trying to get you out officially, like not

891
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 3: just hang out with you.

892
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was going to come pick me up. Oh well,

893
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 2: but yeah, the leaders weren't going to have that.

894
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 1: And apparent they say it is that there were a watchmen.

895
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 1: So I'll just throw that out there, that there was

896
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 1: people guarding this.

897
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, as a girl and as a woman in Gloro Beel,

898
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 2: there's not really a chance for you to get out,

899
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 2: like there's always mean on the bridge at night. And

900
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 2: then as a girl and woman in Glorobel, you couldn't

901
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 2: really walk past a certain part on the property without

902
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 2: having a married lady or your father with you. So

903
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 2: if you were seen trying to get out, like to

904
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 2: get out, you have to go past that point, so

905
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,240
Speaker 2: you really had to do it in a secret way,

906
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 2: which made it really tricky. But how it sort of

907
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 2: came out that how I eventually left was at eighteen,

908
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,919
Speaker 2: something happened I think a friend had come in who

909
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 2: had left and they came back into the community and

910
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 2: the leaders were trying to find him, and they knew

911
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 2: that I was friends with him, and they asked me, oh,

912
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 2: do you know where he is? Where is he hiding?

913
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, no, I don't know where

914
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,760
Speaker 2: he is, but if I did, I wouldn't tell you anyway.

915
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 2: And then that comment just blew up. And I was

916
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 2: on dishes at the time, so I was like doing

917
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 2: all the breakfast dishes. And next thing, I just had

918
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 2: like Neville Cooper coming up to me, like screaming and

919
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,720
Speaker 2: like yelling and like saying like I hated the church,

920
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 2: I hated my family and all the stuff, and like

921
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,800
Speaker 2: I had about four leaders do their and their wives.

922
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 2: And then they told me I had to go home.

923
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 2: They don't want anyone around me because I was evil.

924
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 2: And then they arranged for like a leader's meeting that night.

925
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 2: So it was a Friday night, and those meetings went

926
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 2: for like about three or four hours, and they were

927
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 2: trying to get out of me or convince me it

928
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 2: was all just bisigned. By the end of the meeting,

929
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 2: they said, we want you to sign the commitment or

930
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 2: you've got to go, so pretty much. That was a Friday,

931
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 2: and they wanted me to sign it in front of

932
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 2: the community on a Sunday and buy a sat I mean,

933
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 2: I knew I wasn't going to sign it by the

934
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 2: Saturday I was. I told them I'm not going to

935
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 2: and so on Sunday, I had to pack what I had,

936
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 2: not that I had much. I couldn't say goodbye to

937
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 2: any of my friends. I got to see a couple

938
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 2: of them, and then they realized and sent men to

939
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 2: stand outside my family's bedroom daughter stop me. And then

940
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: I just had to pack my stuff. And then the

941
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 2: next day I was dropped off at a bus stop

942
00:51:56,520 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 2: at the local town and they tried to me to

943
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 2: another place in New Zealand. Thankfully, they bought me tickets

944
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 2: to Auckland, which I didn't even really know, which is

945
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 2: a plane ride away from where Groobo is. It's the

946
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 2: biggest city in New Zealand. And I didn't even know

947
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 2: where that was in New Zealand. I didn't even know

948
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 2: if it was in New Zealand. I just knew that

949
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 2: that was where my mom grew up and that my

950
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 2: grandparents were potentially there, and I'd never met them, so

951
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 2: they sent me there thankfully. You know how they had

952
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 2: those concerts. One of my mom's school friends came to

953
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 2: the concert and she was a real estate agent and

954
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 2: she had her business card. At fourteen, she came. I

955
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 2: keept one of her business cards. I taped it to

956
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 2: the bottom of my draw. You know when you pull

957
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 2: out a draw and there's that space, So I put

958
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:52,799
Speaker 2: it there.

959
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: Wow.

960
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 2: So then when I left, I had that card and

961
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 2: she came to pack me up from the airport and this, yes.

962
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:06,399
Speaker 1: KEITHA, So you've never been on a bus before, you've

963
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: never been on a plane, and there's a bridge separating

964
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: the cult from the rest of the world. Correct, I'm

965
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 1: just yeah, okay, So yeah, you've never really like crossed

966
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: the bridge by yourself like before, and now you're on

967
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: a bus heading towards a plane, heading towards the city

968
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:24,319
Speaker 1: that you don't even know where it itits have four

969
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 1: body goosebumps. This crazy I keep saying.

970
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 2: It was low key terrifying.

971
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, why don't.

972
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 2: You also in this like adrenaline Like I was like,

973
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 2: it's actually happening, It's finally happening, and you're just living

974
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 2: off this adrenaline when I got to crash the airport

975
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,399
Speaker 2: that I was going to buy the bus, I got

976
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 2: there own. I had this really old suitcase that they

977
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 2: gave me and I was trying to carry it, and

978
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 2: this man came up behind me and helped me. And

979
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 2: that was sort of when I realized, ull shit, I'm

980
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 2: on my own and I'm man of all things is

981
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 2: helping me. And that was sort of the first sort

982
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 2: of seed of like the outside world isn't that bad.

983
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 2: If a man can help me, then it mustn't be

984
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 2: that bad. Like just someone helping me put my bag

985
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:18,720
Speaker 2: on the trolley was like the first thing to be like, okay,

986
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be okay, wow, if a man can help.

987
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 3: Me, Because you were told that they would all be

988
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 3: evil or attacking you.

989
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 2: I just had never experienced a positive, a guess experience

990
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 2: with a man actually genuinely helping a woman without giving

991
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,879
Speaker 2: him some betefit. So for a man just to help

992
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 2: me because he saw I needed help was like so foreign.

993
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Megan's crying. I'm just like the logistics

994
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 3: of it all are like overwhelming me. Imagining being in

995
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 3: your physician. One time I had a breakup and new York.

996
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,399
Speaker 3: I weirdly was talking about this today. And I had

997
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 3: no money, and my ex left me in a hotel

998
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 3: with no money, and I didn't know like how to

999
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 3: get to my friend's houses. And I know people in

1000
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 3: New York, and I had a cell phone, and I

1001
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 3: like still and I was like, yeah, I ended up

1002
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 3: on a wrong bus somewhere in New Jersey, but like

1003
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 3: I still could call my friend, and I knew where

1004
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 3: I was in the world, you know, like what you

1005
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 3: were experiencing, knowing no one, knowing nothing. I mean, it's

1006
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 3: just like the disorientation sounds so next level.

1007
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 1: But you knew Keitha and she comes and gets you,

1008
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 1: But did.

1009
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 3: You call her once you landed or before you left?

1010
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 2: So think feeling my mom wrung her off a glory

1011
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 2: ofal landline phone or whatever to say like, I'm coming,

1012
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 2: can you pick my daughter up?

1013
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:49,760
Speaker 1: Okay?

1014
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 2: That was sort of all they knew at that.

1015
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 1: Time, her and her husband.

1016
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, her and her husband, So they just came to

1017
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,720
Speaker 2: pick me up. Okay, But I didn't have a cell phone.

1018
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 2: I didn't have that because they don't have cell phones,

1019
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 2: and glory about They gave me about two hundred dollars

1020
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 2: and that was it. I didn't even have my birth

1021
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 2: certificate at that point, so I had like.

1022
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 3: Nothing, So what happened? Like, tell us about those first

1023
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:17,359
Speaker 3: days of being out?

1024
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: What was that like?

1025
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 2: It was exciting but also like crazy. The first thing

1026
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 2: we did that night when they picked me up was

1027
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 2: take me to like one of the biggest supermarkets in

1028
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 2: New Zealand. I had ever been into a supermarket and

1029
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 2: they were just like, choose what even food you want?

1030
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 2: And I was just like, I do not know what

1031
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 2: to choose. I think there was Easter decorations up and

1032
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 2: I didn't know what Easter was, and I was like,

1033
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 2: what are these bunnies? Why are they bunnies in the supermarket?

1034
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 1: These outside were weird.

1035
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 2: So I think I just think those first few days

1036
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 2: just like looking at everything and like just taking it

1037
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,399
Speaker 2: all in. I think I feel like the first sort

1038
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 2: of year was like a blur in terms of all

1039
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 2: the new experiences I had.

1040
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 3: Were you living?

1041
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: Did you stay with Keitha for a while?

1042
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1043
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 2: I think I stayed with them just just under a

1044
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 2: year and then I went to Flashing. But yeah, those

1045
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 2: first few weeks they thought that I was they were

1046
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 2: going to drop me back at the airport. They were like, oh,

1047
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 2: when are you going to go? When are you going home?

1048
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 2: When do we need to drop you back?

1049
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, surprise your daughter now. Yeah. But they seem to

1050
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: have loved it like that. It seems like they really enjoyed. Yeah,

1051
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 1: you being there, lucky your head then Yeah, I don't

1052
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 1: know if this is the rape metaphor I'm not going

1053
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 1: to say it. Well, I don't know. I know I

1054
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: need to do you ever like have you included do

1055
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: you ever have like a fantasy of somebody from back

1056
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 1: in time coming and you get to show them everything? Yeah,

1057
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: that's how I would feel if you showed up at

1058
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: my house, you know what I mean? I'd like, this

1059
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 1: is this? Like I'd be so excited. Yeah, yeah, did you?

1060
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 3: Did you get a job? Like how did you get

1061
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 3: situated in your life?

1062
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 2: This?

1063
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 3: Like just that period of just like what am I?

1064
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 3: Who am I?

1065
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: Where am I?

1066
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 3: Just is so interesting to me.

1067
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I didn't get a job. For a while,

1068
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 2: I started studying pretty much showed to work. So I

1069
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 2: studied like early childcare education, like a diploma or whatever

1070
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 2: it was, And then I started just doraining nannying work

1071
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 2: because that was sort of I was like, I know

1072
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 2: what I can do well, I can look after kids,

1073
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 2: right because I'm gloryab Our. Women aren't really allowed to

1074
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 2: study or have a degree or anything, only if they're

1075
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 2: chosen in the degree. They I only could do was

1076
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 2: early childcare. But I really wanted to study, so I

1077
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 2: just started there. And then from there I sort of,

1078
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 2: I guess I just my world opened up, and that

1079
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 2: was I got meet people. They got a job and

1080
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 2: got experience on the outside, which then enabled me to

1081
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 2: get another job, and it sort of just grew from there.

1082
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 3: Like what kind of foundation of education did you have

1083
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 3: from being a Gloriaville.

1084
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 2: So in Gloriabae, you sort of have like a very

1085
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 2: strict education early on in terms of writing and maths

1086
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 2: and English that like that sort of stuff. Okay, but

1087
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 2: once you get to like high school college age, education

1088
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 2: isn't important because you only need skills to be a mother,

1089
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 2: to cook and to clean into sew. So and Nevill

1090
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 2: Cooper didn't really want people that were smarter than him.

1091
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 2: Girls just did like English and maths and cooking, cleaning.

1092
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 2: We got those sort of things. And then girls who

1093
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 2: aren't allowed to do science or anything like that. I

1094
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 2: think the only science this sort of thing we did

1095
00:59:55,560 --> 01:00:02,440
Speaker 2: was learn how to make soul. Okay, the boys got science,

1096
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 2: but girls didn't. And then you leave school at about

1097
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 2: fifteen and start working.

1098
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 3: I think it's important to touch on when you learned

1099
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 3: the truth about mister Cooper and what his actual quote persecution.

1100
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: Was his jail time. Yeah.

1101
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, in glorobal I sort of figured out that he

1102
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 2: must have done something more than just be persecuted because

1103
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 2: I had a couple of my other people I know

1104
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 2: approach him about what actually really happened and they were

1105
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 2: kicked out. Oh, so you know that's something more was

1106
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 2: going on, because when people questioned him, it wasn't right.

1107
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 2: So then we word went around it was something to

1108
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 2: do with that sexual abuse. It wasn't till after I

1109
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 2: left that I read a book that his son wrote

1110
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 2: or was involved in writing, called The Sins of My Father,

1111
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 2: that I read to the full extinct of what really

1112
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 2: went on in the beginning of glorobl and like throwout Glorobell,

1113
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 2: which sort of all made saints in a way, which

1114
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 2: then sort of unfolded into what else has he lied

1115
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 2: about or what else has all just not been true?

1116
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 3: So he went to prison for sexual abuse. Yeah, and

1117
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 3: then came back from prison. He got out early, right, Yes,

1118
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 3: he was supposed to serve years and he served like

1119
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 3: less than a year, I want to say. Yeah. And

1120
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 3: then was like, all right, we're doing the church thing

1121
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 3: and you're all gonna come on my compound, even though

1122
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 3: I was just in prison for sexual abuse.

1123
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 1: Yep, it's beyond comprehension. There's a few things about your

1124
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: story that really inspire me. You spoke out about your

1125
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:52,479
Speaker 1: own story with sexual abuse very like unapologetically, and we're

1126
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 1: just like, if I don't want this to happen to

1127
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 1: anybody else because they encouraged you not to speak about it,

1128
01:01:57,400 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 1: and you're like, sorry, I am.

1129
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think when I came out, I I mean,

1130
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 2: I knew and Gloribal that what I experienced wasn't right,

1131
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 2: but I also downplayed it a lot. And then when

1132
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 2: I started telling people that I was with like Keitha,

1133
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 2: she was like, that's not normal. And you can normalize

1134
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 2: it so much when you're in that environment. And so

1135
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 2: then going to the police was really important, not only

1136
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 2: just for me to be heard, but to prevent I mean,

1137
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 2: I had like nearly thirty nieces and nephews then, and

1138
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't want them to experience what

1139
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 2: I did and any other woman and girls in global

1140
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 2: So putting that in a police statement was really important

1141
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 2: to me. And then from there it sort of unraveled

1142
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 2: other things that I experienced it. I guess I didn't

1143
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 2: realize how much impacted me, like just yeah, the leader's

1144
01:02:55,520 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 2: abuse and how they treated you as as a woman

1145
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 2: in glorover and as a girl that belief system that

1146
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 2: your body is not your own and you belong to

1147
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 2: a man, or you belong to your father. It took

1148
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:15,040
Speaker 2: a while to realize, actually, this is my body and

1149
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 2: I'm in control of it and it's not anyone else's.

1150
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 2: And getting my head around that was actually really weird,

1151
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 2: because yeah, it sort of was like, yeah, of course

1152
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:29,920
Speaker 2: it is, but for so long you just thought it's not.

1153
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 3: I mean, that's drilled into you from the day you're born, literally, Like, yeah,

1154
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 3: the fact that you were able to unlearn it at

1155
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 3: all is a miracle.

1156
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 1: It's unbelievable. And you were going to therapy, which is

1157
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 1: so impressive, you know, like you were really putting in

1158
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 1: a lot of work to get these realizations. How did

1159
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 1: you even know to go to therapy or any any

1160
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 1: of these steps that you were taking.

1161
01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 2: I mean, it was when I originally went to the police,

1162
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 2: they offered me therapy, and then I realized that in

1163
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 2: New Zealand, I have access to free therapy, and I

1164
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 2: knew the only way to break that cycle of like

1165
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 2: the abuse that my mother experienced for my father, the

1166
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 2: abuse that all my sisters had experienced was in Gloro Belle,

1167
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 2: the only way to break that cycle was to do

1168
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:26,080
Speaker 2: something about it, and going to therapy was that first

1169
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 2: sort of point of view, and being listened to and

1170
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 2: heard and validated was sort of that first point of knowing, yeah,

1171
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:35,240
Speaker 2: that I can access help.

1172
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 3: Since leaving, have you been able to form community with

1173
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 3: other former members?

1174
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so most of them live quite far from me,

1175
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 2: but I've stayed in contact with quite a few, like

1176
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 2: a few of my friends after I left. Of course,

1177
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 2: a lot of my friends left eventually too, and some

1178
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:01,640
Speaker 2: you stay in contact with. Yeah, I have a friend

1179
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 2: Rosanna and a few other friends that we stay in contact.

1180
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 2: I mean some of the some of these stories that

1181
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 2: in the back of my book as well. So yeah,

1182
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 2: we've stayed together. I think you realize the power of

1183
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 2: woman speaking together and how I guess how powerful our

1184
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 2: voices are and that ability to know and stand together

1185
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 2: and know that our truth deserves to be heard is

1186
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 2: really powerful.

1187
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1188
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you tell us about about when Neville passed away?

1189
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 1: When Nevill died. I'm not going to so passed away

1190
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 1: when he died, not you guys seem to be like

1191
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 1: on a group chat or something, and it was almost

1192
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 1: like inconceivable that he would die. To you, it seemed like.

1193
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, like we were joking like what if he died tonight,

1194
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 2: and then we realized that he.

1195
01:05:54,080 --> 01:06:00,480
Speaker 6: Did die, That he died that very day. I almost

1196
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 6: idea that he was like sick or even dying, But

1197
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 6: it just was such a weird feeling.

1198
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 2: I definitely wasn't like sad. I was like thank God,

1199
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 2: but then it was like, what's going to happen next? Yeah,

1200
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 2: so that was sort of that feeling. But yeah, of

1201
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 2: course he was like the martyr and everyone loved him

1202
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 2: and like worshiped to me. He even made a video before

1203
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 2: he died of like what he wanted to happen, And

1204
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:32,640
Speaker 2: they had one of the concerts that year and he

1205
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 2: died before the concert, so we made a video to

1206
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 2: be played for the concert. Oh wow, Like that's how

1207
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 2: self absorbed in Like, hey he was in terms of that,

1208
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 2: he was like the beginning and end.

1209
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:49,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, in the animal talking version of the story

1210
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 1: the fairy tale, the court would have ended then and

1211
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 1: it would be gone, but instead somebody replaced him.

1212
01:06:55,600 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 2: Is that yes, an American.

1213
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 1: And an American even worse. So now another man has

1214
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: stepped up and the beat goes on. Is that cracked?

1215
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:14,760
Speaker 2: Yep, just has continued and currently that man is in

1216
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 2: the court system and hopefully to be sentenced that Sadly,

1217
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 2: our justice system doesn't take these things seriously, so we

1218
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:26,400
Speaker 2: won't get much for the case.

1219
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 1: What's the case?

1220
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 2: Sexual abuse?

1221
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 1: A big deal? Yeah? Okay to New Zealand. The American

1222
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 1: Yeah wow.

1223
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 2: So they've appointed another man like to take over, but

1224
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 2: that older man is still going to be there. I mean,

1225
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 2: the American guy is older and he was born in

1226
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 2: America and all of that. Now the next leader was

1227
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:55,080
Speaker 2: born into it, so that's all he knows. Now, So

1228
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 2: it's a whole different I guess layout of how it's

1229
01:07:58,400 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 2: going to be.

1230
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:03,400
Speaker 3: Right, we have to wrap up by I know, I know,

1231
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 3: but is there you know, God, do you there's so

1232
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:17,880
Speaker 3: many different possibilities. Do you have any final thoughts that

1233
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 3: you'd like to share or conclusions that you want people

1234
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 3: to know about this experience or this group.

1235
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:28,040
Speaker 2: I think, not necessarily about Gloroval, but I think something

1236
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 2: that I've realized since leaving is that cults can be linked,

1237
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 2: like controlled environments, cults and relationships or whatever you're in.

1238
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 2: I think knowing that anyone around the world that's in

1239
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 2: an environment or relationship, knowing that you can get out,

1240
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 2: and knowing that your voice matters and that your experience

1241
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:55,519
Speaker 2: is valid and that like trust your gut, that sort

1242
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 2: of thing. I think it's not just Gloroval or whatever.

1243
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 2: I think I've realized that so many people have so

1244
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 2: many different stories and once that's out, they realize, but

1245
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:08,719
Speaker 2: when you're in it, you can't say it the same.

1246
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:11,839
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think just knowing that you're not alone

1247
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 2: in those situations.

1248
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:14,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, really not.

1249
01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 3: I mean there are so many, so many groups like this,

1250
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:19,960
Speaker 3: it's wild.

1251
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1252
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:22,960
Speaker 3: Well, we started this podcast, we thought we would run

1253
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:25,680
Speaker 3: out of people to talk to, and that is not

1254
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 3: the case, unfortunately, unfortunately, but also wonderful that there are

1255
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 3: people like you sharing their stories and helping other people

1256
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 3: in other groups. So can you remind us the name

1257
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:39,439
Speaker 3: of your book and where people can find it.

1258
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 2: Sure. The name of my book is called Unveiled, A

1259
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 2: Story of Surviving Glory Over and it is on Kindle,

1260
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:51,599
Speaker 2: Amazon in New Zealand, it's and bookstores. But yeah, it's online.

1261
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 2: You can find it online in the Amazon BNK.

1262
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:58,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing, it's incredible. And do you have a place

1263
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 1: that you want people to follow you or on a knee?

1264
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 2: Yes, you can follow me on Instagram on my page

1265
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 2: called life is Choice, New Zealand.

1266
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:11,400
Speaker 1: Amazing. If you wake up with four hundred new messages,

1267
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 1: they're probably from us. Great to thank you so much

1268
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:20,599
Speaker 1: for joining us today. Seriously, thank you, We really appreciate it.

1269
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

1270
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:26,800
Speaker 3: And that's where we'll leave it with THEO. What an

1271
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:28,720
Speaker 3: incredible story. I wish we could have talked to her

1272
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 3: for long.

1273
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:32,120
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to see this as a movie because

1274
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 1: it's one of the most exciting stories I've ever heard

1275
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:36,599
Speaker 1: in my life. I can't stop telling people about it.

1276
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 3: Well, which brings me to my question, yeah, which is

1277
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 3: do you think you would join Gloria Vale?

1278
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:48,240
Speaker 1: Absolutely? No, go on, just none of the stuff that

1279
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:55,080
Speaker 1: usually intrigues me, such as aliens, legs, wigs. Yeah, is

1280
01:10:55,760 --> 01:11:00,680
Speaker 1: that a good thing? Yeah? You know, like dare I

1281
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:05,559
Speaker 1: say glamour or some sort of like spiritual hippie stuff

1282
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:09,759
Speaker 1: kind of. Yeah. Yeah, So I think that I would

1283
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 1: not love it, but I totally see how people get

1284
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:17,920
Speaker 1: sucked into it. You know, it's offering like a different,

1285
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:20,800
Speaker 1: simpler life. And yeah.

1286
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, when I was a kid, and I'm sure we've

1287
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 3: talked about this, but I like, well, I was really

1288
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:28,519
Speaker 3: obsessed with the Box Card Children.

1289
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:31,360
Speaker 1: Duh, Henry Violet.

1290
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:36,240
Speaker 3: Of course you remember every detail from the books, You're insane.

1291
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 1: I don't remember.

1292
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:40,479
Speaker 3: I literally, I think I've read like all of them.

1293
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:44,000
Speaker 3: Don't remember any of the characters. No, but I loved

1294
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:44,519
Speaker 3: the books.

1295
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 1: I loved it.

1296
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:49,320
Speaker 3: I swear it's a bad memory. And the idea of

1297
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:54,240
Speaker 3: like like living simpler and like doing things from scratch

1298
01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 3: and no electricity and like going you know, like was

1299
01:11:57,280 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 3: so appealing to me. And we had like a lot

1300
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:03,840
Speaker 3: of Amish people in our I guess I don't actually

1301
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:06,200
Speaker 3: remember if they were our neighborhood, but in rural Michigan,

1302
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:08,479
Speaker 3: we would see them. And I was so intrigued by

1303
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 3: it and really want to hang out with them, so

1304
01:12:10,360 --> 01:12:12,160
Speaker 3: I see the appeal on that level.

1305
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 1: Totally, totally same. I loved and just for people who

1306
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 1: didn't read The Box Car Children, I'm number one, what

1307
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 1: are you doing with your life? Get in there? Number two.

1308
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:23,879
Speaker 1: It's these kids who escape from kind of an abusive

1309
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:26,960
Speaker 1: foster situation and move into a box car in the woods,

1310
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 1: and there's a dump nearby that they go and collect

1311
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:33,320
Speaker 1: all of these treasures that people have thrown away. And

1312
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:36,120
Speaker 1: I was addicted to reading how they built, like they

1313
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 1: found the stream where they could get the water and

1314
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:40,559
Speaker 1: clean off all their things. And yes, there was also

1315
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:43,839
Speaker 1: that movie Swiss Family Robinson. It was like a Disney

1316
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:45,519
Speaker 1: movie and there was a part in it. I remember

1317
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 1: my friend had the movie because I didn't have any movies,

1318
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:49,400
Speaker 1: and I just watch it over and over and over

1319
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:52,760
Speaker 1: where they moved to a weird island and like and

1320
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:56,360
Speaker 1: built a self containing like family city, and I just

1321
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 1: loved that. For some reason. I don't I really like,

1322
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 1: I really like that kind of trope. But I you know,

1323
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 1: as myself now, I just can't. I can't live more

1324
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:10,519
Speaker 1: simply than you. Yeah, yeah at all?

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01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:13,200
Speaker 3: Basically yeah yeah.

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01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:13,439
Speaker 1: Now.

1327
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:15,280
Speaker 3: Growing up I was on a farm and so that

1328
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:19,040
Speaker 3: stuff seemed fun. Right now I'm like, oh, I really

1329
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:20,519
Speaker 3: like my air conditioning yet.

1330
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. All that to say, please read those book because

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01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:27,680
Speaker 1: I couldn't put it down absolutely. Oh and if you

1332
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 1: want to get some trust Me morich, go to the

1333
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:35,360
Speaker 1: Exactly Right Store at exactly rightstore dot com and grab

1334
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:38,360
Speaker 1: a T shirt or a hat. And as always, remember

1335
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:41,680
Speaker 1: to follow your gut, watch out for red flax, and

1336
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:46,080
Speaker 1: never ever trust me. Bye bye.

1337
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:50,120
Speaker 3: This has been an Exactly Right production hosted by me

1338
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:50,760
Speaker 3: Lo La.

1339
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:54,479
Speaker 1: Blanc and me Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is Gee Holly.

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01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:57,839
Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by John Bradley. Our associate producer

1341
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:01,240
Speaker 1: is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest book are is Patrick Kottner.

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01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 3: Our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

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01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 1: Trust Me as executive produced by Karen Kilgareth Georgia Hardstark

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01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:09,280
Speaker 1: and Daniel Kramer.

1345
01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:11,799
Speaker 3: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me podcast

1346
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 3: or on TikTok at trust Me cult Podcast.

1347
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:17,480
Speaker 1: Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, our manipulation,

1348
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:20,840
Speaker 1: Shoot us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com.

1349
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:23,800
Speaker 3: Listen to trust Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1350
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:25,480
Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts.