1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to steph you missed in history class from how 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: Stuffworks dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Trac B. Wilson and I'm Holly cry Today's podcast is 4 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: a listener suggestion, and I'm pretty sure it was a 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: comment somebody left us on our Facebook page. I really 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: thought I had written down the name of the person 7 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: who sent it in. Apparently I didn't, and I feel 8 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: really bad about that because it was such a great 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: suggestion that was definitely from that one specific person. It's 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: not a suggestion I think we've gotten other times. Besides that, 11 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 1: by absolute total coincidence. It was also a Google doodle 12 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: literally yesterday. In terms of when we are recording this podcast, uh, 13 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: it is about disability rights activist Ed Roberts, who was 14 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: known as the father of the independent living movement. That's 15 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: a movement for and by people with disability which combines 16 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: advocacy and resources and education all towards the goal of 17 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: living independently and fully integrated with abled society. And with 18 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: one quick heads up today there's a brief part of 19 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: today's episode while we are discussing roberts eighteen month hospitalization 20 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: with polio that might be triggering for people with depression 21 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: or with eating disorders, and if that applies to you, 22 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: when we get to that part of the story, you 23 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: might want to skip ahead about thirty seconds, starting with 24 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: our mention of that eighteen month hospital stay. Edward Verne 25 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: Roberts was born on January nineteen thirty nine in San Mateo, California, 26 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: to Zona and Verne Roberts, and at the age of fourteen, 27 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: he contracted polio, which is a viral disease that primarily 28 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: affects children under the age of five. In addition to 29 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: symptoms such as fever, headache, and vomiting, polio also attacks 30 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: the nervous system and causes paralysis. Because of its typicly 31 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: young patients and the way the disease progresses, it has 32 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: also been known by the name infantile paralysis. Polio still 33 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: exists today. There's no cure for it, but it can 34 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: be prevented by a vaccine. The first polio vaccines were 35 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: introduced in nineteen fifty five, which was about two years 36 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: after Roberts contracted the disease, and if you're interested, there 37 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: is a whole podcast on the history of polio and 38 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: its vaccines in our archive from past hosts Sarah and Bablina. 39 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: In many cases of polio, the diseases progression affects a 40 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: person's ability to breathe. Until this stage of the disease 41 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: was usually fatal, but that year the first version of 42 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: the iron lung was introduced. The iron lung, which is 43 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: the more colloquial name for a tank respirator or a 44 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: negative pressure respirator, could keep patients alive during this acute 45 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: stage of the disease. An iron lung looks like a 46 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,399 Speaker 1: big metal cylinder. It's big enough for a person's whole 47 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: body to fit into from the neck down. Typically, there's 48 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: a bed inside that can be slid in and out 49 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: of the cylinder, allowing the patient to be removed and 50 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 1: returned when necessary. Windows and portholes on the sides of 51 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: the cylinder let caregivers touch the person who's inside, adjust 52 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: their bedding, generally care for them while they are still 53 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: inside of the iron lung and The iron lung works 54 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: by alternately lowering and raising pressure inside the chamber. When 55 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: the pressure is lowered, air is drawn into the lungs 56 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: through the patient's nose and mouth, and when the pressure 57 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: is raised that air is pushed out, which both forces 58 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: the patient to exhale and allows them to speak during 59 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: the exhaled breath, so for a person using an iron lung, 60 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: speech is usually timed with the machine cycle of breathing. Today, 61 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: iron lungs have been almost completely replaced by other respiration technologies. 62 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: As of fourteen, there were only about ten of them 63 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: still in use in the world, and those were mostly 64 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: with people who had survived polio and child hood very 65 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: long ago. But during Robert's early life they were the 66 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: standard of care and polio patients who couldn't breathe on 67 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: their own. In many patients, the muscle weakness and paralysis 68 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: associated with polio were temporary, as was the need for 69 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: an iron lung, but in about one and two hundred patients, 70 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: the paralytic effects of polio are permanent. This was the 71 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: case for Ed Roberts. After contracting polio in nineteen fifty three. 72 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: He was hospitalized for about eighteen months. While in the hospital, 73 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: he was very ill, with a very high fever and 74 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 1: near total paralysis. His mother asked his doctor whether he 75 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: would live, and the doctor's answer, which was given where 76 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 1: Ed could hear him, was that she should hope that 77 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: he didn't because he would be, in the doctor's words, 78 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 1: no more than a vegetable. And for a while, Roberts 79 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: decided he didn't want to live. He was being continually 80 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: looked after by nurses and the only thing in his 81 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: if that he had control over was whether to eat, 82 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: and so he stopped. His weight dropped to about fifty pounds, 83 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: down from approximately a hundred and twenty. But after the 84 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: last nurse left, the medical staff had basically decided that 85 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: the end was near for him. As he would describe 86 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: later in his life, he decided that he did want 87 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 1: to live. He started eating again. He was eventually able 88 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: to return home. His family had moved into a different 89 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: house when that had fewer stairs and could accommodate this 90 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: eight hundred pound iron lung, and from there he returned 91 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: to school, calling into classes at Burlingame High by phone. 92 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: Prior to contracting polio, Roberts had wanted to be a 93 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: professional baseball player, and he hadn't been particularly interested in 94 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: school work, but that changed after his illness. He was 95 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: about two years behind because of his lengthy hospital stay, 96 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: but he dedicated himself to his schoolwork and he became 97 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: an excellent student. At this point, people with apparent disability 98 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: weren't really seen all that often in American society. Many 99 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: were placed in institutions or were cared for at home, 100 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: but never really got out of the house. But as 101 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: Ed's senior year of high school approached, his mother and 102 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: his social worker insisted that he not spent his whole 103 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: life in his room. They arranged for him to attend 104 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: some of his senior year classes, at least some of 105 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: them in person in a wheelchair. Roberts had learned a 106 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 1: method of breeding called Glossopher and Gail breathing, also known 107 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: as frog breathing, and this is sort of like swallowing air, 108 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: so basically using the muscles of his mouth and throat 109 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: to force air into his lungs. While he still needed 110 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: the iron lung for much of the time, especially while 111 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 1: he was asleep, he was able to live outside of 112 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: it for periods of time. He was worried about being 113 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: stared at, and people did stare at him, but he 114 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: quickly realized that the people staring weren't the ones who 115 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: were really uncomfortable with with his being there. People who 116 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: were really uncomfortable avoided looking at him, so he decided 117 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: that the ones who were staring at him were the 118 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: people who were interested and curious. So he decided to 119 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: approach it as though they were staring at him because 120 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: he was a famous person and not because he was disabled. 121 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: And this approach to other people's reactions to him really 122 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: set the stage for the man that Edward Roberts would become. 123 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: Throughout his life. The people who knew and worked with 124 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: him remarked on how charismatic and ambitious he was, a 125 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: very funny, very determined person, an adventurous man who loved 126 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: good food and good drinks and good company and was 127 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: absolutely unafraid to demand accessibility and equality and to do 128 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: the things that people told him would be impossible. Uh 129 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: through the wonderful work of oral historians and documentary filmmakers, 130 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: there is a lot of footage and oral history from 131 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: ed Roberts, and he is a character like he everyone 132 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: over and over remarks on just having a big, big 133 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: personality and being very gregarious and very funny. And so 134 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: we will link to a lot of those in our 135 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: show notes for the people who are interested and learning more, 136 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: but for now, one of Ed's first experiences with advocacy 137 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: would play out while he was actually still in high 138 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: school and we will talk about it after a quick 139 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: sponsor break. Even though Ed Roberts had good grades in 140 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: high school, when it was time for him to graduate, 141 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: the school's principle refused to let him. The state required 142 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 1: credits and physical education and driver's head he had neither 143 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: because neither class was accessible to him. His mother's Zona, 144 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: who had experienced in advocacy through her work as a 145 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: labor organizer, first took it up with the school. The 146 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: vice principle came by their house and suggested that since 147 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 1: Ed hadn't done the required coursework, his diploma would be 148 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: a quote cheap one and he should stay an extra 149 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: year to make up for it. And the family, of 150 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: course declined this offer. It was not really reasonable to say, 151 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: because you didn't take PE and drivers that you need 152 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: a whole extra year of high school. Zona then took 153 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: the matter to the school board, which ultimately allowed Ed 154 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: physical rehabilitation to account for his PE credits, and they 155 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: waived the requirement for Driver's ED, which, uh, if you've 156 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: ever done any kind of of physical rehab it's harder 157 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: than most PE classes, like he should have gotten extra 158 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: credit for that. Uh So his high school diploma received. 159 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: Roberts attended his local community college, the College of San Mateo, 160 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: from nineteen fifty nine to nineteen sixty two, and he 161 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: at first planned to become a technical writer. He was 162 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: a good writer and he knew how to dictate documents, 163 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: so it seemed like a good way to be able 164 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: to earn a living. But after taking a class in government, 165 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: he became very interested in political science. Roberts had originally 166 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: planned to transfer from the College of San Mateo to 167 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: u C l A. And that was a campus that 168 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: was already wheelchair accessible, in part because of a pro 169 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: graham for World War te veterans that was already in 170 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: place at the school. But Ed's advisor at College of 171 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: San Mateo, Dean Worth, recommended the University of California at 172 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: Berkeley for the strength of its political science program. Ed's 173 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: brother Ron, was going to UC Berkeley, and Ed knew 174 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: from his visits there that the campus was not particularly accessible, 175 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,719 Speaker 1: But even though Berkeley's lack of accessibility made it a 176 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: less practical choice, that was definitely the stronger option for 177 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: him in terms of academics. Ed went to the California 178 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: Department of Rehabilitation for financial help with school, something it 179 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: had made available to other disabled students. They gave him 180 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: a personality test and later told him that it scored 181 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: him as being very aggressive, something that Roberts suggested, given 182 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: his disability, should be seen as a positive and not 183 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: a negative. But the counselor assigned to him at the 184 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: Department of Rehabilitation denied his request for financial aid on 185 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: the grounds that he was not employable, And then when 186 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: you See Berkeley learned about his disability, it tried to 187 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: resend his acceptance to the university. But similarly to how 188 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: he'd had his mother's support in getting his high school 189 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: to allow him to graduate here, he had the support 190 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: of the staff at the College of San Mateo, including 191 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: gene Worth, as well as the school's president and dean 192 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: of students uh and they backed his efforts to enroll 193 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 1: at you Ce Berkeley. They pointed to his strong academic 194 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: record as evidence that he had the right to continue 195 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: his education at the school with the best academic program 196 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: that he wanted to study, and that he shouldn't be 197 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: forced to go elsewhere just to be on a campus 198 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: that was already accessible. You See Berkeley arguing that there 199 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: was nowhere on campus to how someone who used an 200 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: iron lung, and worried about Robert's medical needs and the 201 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: risk that something could happen to him while he was 202 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: at the school, again said no. This time, Roberts and 203 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: his advocates went to the newspaper, and you see Berkeley 204 00:11:54,840 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: eventually relented. Robert's planned to work around you see Berkeley's 205 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: lack of wheelchair accessibility by using a wheelchair when he could, 206 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: but being carried into places like classroom buildings or cafeterias 207 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: that had stairs. But there was still the real issue 208 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: of having nowhere in student housing that could accommodate an 209 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: eight hundred pound iron lung, And eventually the decision was 210 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: made to house him in a wing of U. C. 211 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: Berkeley's Cowl Hospital, and he moved in in nineteen sixty two. 212 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 1: For that first year, it was a really lonely existence. 213 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: Roberts was the only student being housed full time in 214 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: the hospital, and his primary company was an attendant that 215 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: was paid for by state funds from a program to 216 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: provide services for people with disabilities. Sometimes his friends or 217 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: his brother Ron helped out as well, but at night 218 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: he was basically being treated as a patient and not 219 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: a student. At the same time, though in typical college fashion, 220 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: he had a lot more freedom and independence than he 221 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: had had at home. He could breathe on his own 222 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: outside of the iron lung, long enough to go to 223 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: class us, go have a drink, and even to go 224 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: on dates. It was that last one that prompted Roberts 225 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,599 Speaker 1: to try to find a way to make a power wheelchair, 226 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: which was at this point a relatively new technology work 227 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: for him. Today there are a lot more options for 228 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: controlling power wheelchairs, including head and mouth controls, but at 229 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: the time, hand controls were really the only one in existence. 230 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: For this reason, Roberts three hab counselors had told him 231 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: that he wouldn't ever be able to use one. He 232 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: only had the use of two fingers on his left hand, 233 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: and not in a way that could operate those controls. 234 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: But Roberts, highly motivated by a desire to be alone 235 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: with his girlfriend, figured out that with the controls simply 236 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 1: turned around, he could operate the power wheelchair by pulling 237 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 1: with his two fingers rather than pushing on them as 238 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: they were designed to be used. In nine Roberts was 239 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: no longer the only student living in Cowel Hospital. He 240 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: was joined by John Hessler, who had broken his neck 241 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: in a diving accident, and soon all Hospital was home 242 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: to other students with similar disabilities as well. By nineteen 243 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: sixty seven, at which point Roberts had finished a bachelor's 244 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: and the Masters and had moved on to PhD work 245 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: in political science, there were about twelve students living in 246 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: Cowel Hospital who called themselves the Rolling Quads. They formed 247 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: a support network and advocacy group, coming up with ideas 248 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: and strategies for better accessibility both on and off campus. 249 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: You see, Berkeley was a hotbed of political activism, including 250 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: protests for women's rights, free speech, and against the Vietnam War. 251 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: Berkeley is one of the campuses that shows up again 252 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: and again in coverage about student protests. Some of them 253 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: uh quite radical, and this was true for the Rolling 254 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: Quads as well. When the program administrators tried to cut 255 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: funding for students who weren't completing their coursework fast enough, 256 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: the Rolling Quads petitioned and then went to the media 257 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: on the grounds that the same standards were not being 258 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: a applied to non disabled students. Basically, the school was 259 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: in a hurry for the students with disabilities to finish 260 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: faster because it was more expensive to house them, but 261 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: that same measurement was not being applied to other students 262 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: who were in more typical student housing. When the city 263 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: started refurbishing a shopping center near the campus, eight of 264 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: the rolling Quads went to a city council meeting to 265 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: demand that curb cuts be included in the budget. They 266 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: were with the city devoting fifty thousand dollars a year 267 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: to making accessibility improvements to city streets. The curb cut 268 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: is just that little slope that goes from the curb 269 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: level to the street level, which today is completely standard, 270 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: was not standard at that point, and it meant that, 271 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: you know, if if you were using a wheelchair, it 272 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: was really hard for you to get from like across 273 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: the street. And when they went to the city council, 274 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: one of the arguments that they got back was well, 275 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: we don't need those, We never see any people out 276 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: in wheelchairs. And they were like, well, yeah, because it 277 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: is because safe, we can't use the sidewalks. It's such 278 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: like a jacked up logic, I know. Uh. As all 279 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: of this was going on. Robert's former counselor back from 280 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: the College of San Mateo, Jean Worth had been working 281 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: on a college readiness program for minority students, and this 282 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: was a program that was working toward reducing high school 283 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: dropout rates and preparing minority students for college through peer counseling. 284 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: Students who were at risk for dropping out were paired 285 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: with other students who were their mentors who could help 286 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: them remove whatever obstacles were in the way and keeping 287 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: them from finishing school. Based on the work that the 288 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: Rolling Quads had been doing UH and how much they 289 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: had been able to advocate for themselves and support one another, 290 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: Roberts thought the same model could be used for students 291 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: with disabilities. So Roberts flew to Washington to help Worth 292 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: write a plan that included disability among the minority students 293 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: the program sought to help, and he presented a grant 294 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: proposal to the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare to 295 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: implement a peer support program at UC Berkeley. The department 296 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: approved eighty one tho dollars in funding. With this grant, 297 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: Roberts and the Rolling Quads started the Physically Disabled Students 298 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 1: Program or PDSP. The p DSP was run by and 299 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: for students with disabilities, and it sought to provide attendance, 300 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: wheelchair repair, and resources for accessible housing, including the relocation 301 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:34,239 Speaker 1: out of Cowell Hospital into actual accessible housing rather than 302 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: a hospital ward. Even though it was only meant to 303 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: be a student program, it was so successful that people 304 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: in the greater community began to rely on it really quickly, 305 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: something that was technically against the rules, but the p 306 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: DSP was just not really willing to turn people away. 307 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: It was grounded in the self advocacy and the focus 308 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: on self determination that became the hallmarks of the independent 309 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: living movement. Much of the disability advocacy before this point 310 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: had been by and on behalf of caregivers, not of 311 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: people with disabilities themselves. It was often paternalistic, and it 312 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: approached people with disabilities as a population to be pitied 313 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: and looked after, not as autonomous human beings capable of 314 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: making their own decisions. Although there are still divisions between 315 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: self advocacy and caregiver advocacy today, the independent living movement 316 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: changed that direction entirely. Yeah, you will definitely see huge divisions, 317 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: especially among like uh parents of children with disabilities and 318 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: then those adults who have grown up and are able 319 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,479 Speaker 1: to advocate for themselves. A lot of times very different 320 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: needs and opinions. But before this movement really started, the 321 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: only voice was the more paternalistic I need to look 322 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: after you. Here's how I'm going to fix your problem 323 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: kind of voice. Soon the PDSPS work made a more 324 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: official move off of campus, rather than just seeing to 325 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: the needs of community of the community, even though it 326 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: was really a student program, and we will talk about 327 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: that after another quick sponsor break. As more students with 328 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: more types of disabilities came to Berkeley's Physically Disabled Students 329 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: Program for help, the p DSP broadened its focus from 330 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: primarily wheelchair users to include, for example, providing rail readers 331 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: for blind students. And as we noted before the break, 332 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: the p DSP didn't want to turn away anyone who 333 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: needed help, regardless of whether they actually went to Berkeley 334 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: or not. So almost immediately the p DSP staff of 335 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: nine full and part time counselors was just completely overwhelmed. 336 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: The result was that in nine two Roberts and the 337 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: Physically Disabled Students Program launched the Center for Independent Living. 338 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: It followed the same model as the p DSP, an 339 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: organization run by and for people with disabilities, in corporating 340 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 1: a broad range of disabilities and working towards the goal 341 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:08,239 Speaker 1: of completely integrating people with disabilities into the greater community. 342 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 1: The by laws stipulated that at least fifty one of 343 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: the staff and board had to be people with disabilities. 344 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: While the p DSP had been launched by federal grant money, 345 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 1: the Center for Independent Living was funded by whatever money 346 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: its founders could scrape together, including donations, occasional grant money, 347 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: and ten percent of the pot at some of the 348 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: founders periodic poker games. And after a brief time away 349 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 1: from Berkeley teaching community organizing at an all black school, 350 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: Roberts returned to the Center for Independent Living in nineteen 351 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: seventy four. As its director. He began more explicitly approaching 352 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: his disability rights advocacy in terms of civil rights. Other 353 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: centers for Independent Livings soon opened in other states, following 354 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: the same model for self advocacy, self determination, integration, and 355 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: quality of life. By the nineteen eighties, there were more 356 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 1: than three hundred of these centers around the United States. 357 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: Roberts stayed and his in his role at the Center 358 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: for Independent Living for about eighteen months until nineteen seventy five, 359 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: when California Governor Jerry Brown came for a tour. After 360 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: seeing the work that Roberts was doing, he offered him 361 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: a new position, director of the state's Department of Rehabilitation. 362 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: This was the same department that had told Roberts he 363 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: was unemployable when he was looking for financial help to 364 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: go to UC Berkeley, and Roberts would work as the 365 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: director of the state Department of Rehabilitation for the next 366 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: nine years. During that time, he would radically shift the 367 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: department's direction and the way that it offered services. The 368 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: department's federal funding was based on how many people it 369 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: was able to place into jobs, so for years it 370 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 1: had focused most of its attention on the people whose 371 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: disabilities were easiest to accommodate in a workplace setting, and 372 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: that was why it had written Roberts off as unemployable. Instead, 373 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: Roberts added day to day support for a person's independent 374 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: quality of life to the Department of Rehabilitations roster of duties, 375 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: as well as advocacy for non discrimination policies other things 376 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: that were basically meant to take a broader, more holistic 377 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: scope to what the department was doing. The department did 378 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: see a fair amount of turnover as employees resisted the 379 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,959 Speaker 1: shift in direction, and in some cases we're let go 380 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: because they did not agree with the shift in direction, 381 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: and the debate on how much to continue to focus 382 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: on more easy to place jobs for the sake of 383 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: federal funding continued, and really in a lot of places 384 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: continue still today. And in the midst of all of 385 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: this UH, in those same years, Robert got married and 386 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 1: he and his wife Catherine also had a son named Lee. 387 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 1: Also during these same year's very busy collection of years 388 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: was a lengthy governmental back and forth related to what's 389 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: known as Section five oh four. This is a non 390 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: discrimination clause and the Rehabilitation Act of ninety three UH. 391 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: Section five oh four reads quote, No otherwise qualified handicapped 392 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: individual in the United States shall, solely on the basis 393 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,959 Speaker 1: of his handicap, be excluded from the participation, being denied 394 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 1: the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination, under any 395 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: program or activity receiving federal financial assistance. Section five oh 396 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: four was added to the Rehabilitation Act almost unnoticed during 397 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: the Nixon administration, and the fight over it lasted into 398 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: the administration of Jimmy Carter, largely due to the financial 399 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: costs involved with making buildings and programs accessible and fears 400 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: about its scope being too broad. A four year delay 401 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,479 Speaker 1: in writing regulations to actually implement Section five oh four 402 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: ultimately led to an enormous takeover of the Regional Health, 403 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: Education and Welfare Building in San Francisco in nineteen seventy seven, 404 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: one organized by Judy Hyman, who had been paralyzed after 405 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: contracting polio as a baby. Roberts made several visits to 406 00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: this sit in, which was ultimately successful, prompting Carter's Secretary 407 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: of Health, Education, and Welfare to finally sign off on 408 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: the necessary regulations also in nineteen seventy seven. Section five 409 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,959 Speaker 1: oh four would eventually lead into the Americans with Disabilities 410 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: Act in ninete. Ed Roberts continued to be a strident 411 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: advocate for disability rights and independent living for the rest 412 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: of his life, and this included travel all over the world, 413 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: which itself involved advocating for accessible airports and airplanes. He 414 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: helped found the World Institute on Disability in nineteen eighty three, 415 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 1: and he was awarded a MacArthur Foundation grant in nineteen 416 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: eighty four. He served on the board of directors of 417 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: numerous disability rights organizations while also serving as the president 418 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: of the World Institute of Disability until until his death 419 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,199 Speaker 1: from cardiac arrest on March fourteenth of nineteen five at 420 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: the age of fifty six. His wheelchair is now part 421 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: of the Smithsonian Collection. He was inducted into the California 422 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,880 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame in eleven and the United States House 423 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: of Representatives declared at January any three at Roberts Day. 424 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: Also January is the day that he was a Google doodle. Coincidentally, 425 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: as I was like, that was the day I finished 426 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: writing this podcast. Good accidental timing, Tracy Well, and as 427 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: I was doing the research, I was like, oh, his 428 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: birthday's coming up, and then there was a Google doodle. Today. 429 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 1: The nonprofit ed Roberts Campus, a fully accessible campus and 430 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: events space in Berkeley, is also named for him. That 431 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: is Had Roberts. He really did so much to shift 432 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: the way that people thought about disability and to shift 433 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: the way that people regarded people with disabilities. Uh, not 434 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: at all to suggest that everything is perfect now. I 435 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: mean basically, everybody I know who is living with a disability, 436 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: especially if it is not something that is easily accommodated, 437 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: faces a basically continual uphill battle to get services and 438 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: basic uh equipment and care. But going from nothing two 439 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: to that like it was a huge, a huge deal, 440 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: So I think we definitely owe a lot to Ed Roberts. 441 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: Do you also have listener mail? It is from Francis. 442 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: Francis says dear Holly and Tracy. First of all, thank 443 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: you for all your wonderful podcasts. I am a Zimbabwean 444 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: living in Scotland, so I was chuffed to listen to 445 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: the one on Great Zimbabwe. Aside from it making me 446 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: a little homesick, here's some useless information you never knew 447 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: you didn't want to know. You talked about the Zimbabwe 448 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 1: bird both at the Great Zimbabwe site and on the flag. 449 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: The Zimbabwe bird is. It is believed supposed to be 450 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: either the African fish eagle or the battle or eagle. 451 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 1: Both of these raptors are wonderful and eagle, just as 452 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: a national bird should be. If you google the African 453 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: fish eagle you'll see it looks a lot like the 454 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: American bald eagle, although it is quite a bit smaller. 455 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: They are unsurprisingly related. The fish eagle is a much 456 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: loved burden Zimbabwe and no doubts elsewhere as well, and 457 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: its cry is very distinctive, a sound that is as 458 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: quintessentially African to me as the lions roar. And there's 459 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: a YouTube clip that I open in the shore notes. 460 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: To an outsider, it might sound a little distressing, as 461 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,479 Speaker 1: I discovered once in Scotland when I programmed it as 462 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: a ringtone on my phone, but when you hear it 463 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: whilst sitting on the bank of the Zombiez River at sunset, 464 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: it fits just right and it's absolutely beautiful. The battle 465 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: or eagle is very colorful and distinctive bird, which maybe 466 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,479 Speaker 1: why it was the inspiration for the Zimbabwe bird. They 467 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: also hunt snakes, which I personally am grateful for. Unfortunately 468 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: their numbers have dropped significantly thanks to hunting, poisoning and 469 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: the loss of habitat. When one is seen, it is 470 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: a treasured occurrence. The sort talk about when you get 471 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: back from your savannah adventures, even though they do not 472 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: sing quite as beautifully as the fish eagle. Thank you 473 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: again for all the podcasts, Francis, Thank you so much, Francis, 474 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,679 Speaker 1: and Francis sent us a picture and that is a 475 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 1: beautiful bird. Yeah, and I will put a link to 476 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: the sound file of the call of This of the 477 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: Fish Eagle in our share notes as well, along with 478 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: like I said, the many Many's there's so much oral 479 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 1: history and documentary footage. A couple of different organizations have 480 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: done a great job of putting together whole libraries that 481 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: chronicle the history of the independent living movement. UH. We 482 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: will link to those things in the show notes for 483 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: people who are interested in learning more. UM. If you 484 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: would like to write to us about this or any 485 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: other podcast, where a history podcast at how stuff works 486 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: dot com. We're also on Facebook at facebook dot com 487 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: slash miss in history and on Twitter at miss in History. 488 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: Our tumbler is missed in History dot tumbler dot com. 489 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: We're on trist at pinchest dot com slash missed in History. UH. 490 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: We have an Instagram too that is at missed in History. 491 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: If you would like to come to our parent company's website, 492 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: which is how stuff works dot com, you will find 493 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: all kinds of information about anything your heart desires. You 494 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: can also come to our website, which is missed in 495 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: History dot com, where we have a whole archive of 496 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 1: every episode that has ever been on the show. We 497 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: have lots of show notes from the episodes that Holly 498 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: and I have worked on, and some videos that we 499 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: more recently recorded after a trip to Massachusetts back in October. 500 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: You can do all that and a whole lot more 501 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com or missed in history 502 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, 503 00:29:47,760 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: is it how stuff works dot com.