1 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: Today on Crime Stories, we head to southern California. Rich 2 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: Lopez received a phone call from an informant who said 3 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: that she had information that there was a body hidden 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: in the wall. Joining Nancy Grace. Darryl Cohen, former Assistant 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: District Attorney Fulton County, Georgia, now famed defense attorney. James 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: shell Nutt twenty seven years Atlanta Metro Major Case Detectives 7 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: as WAT officer, now retired. Doctor Katherine Maloney, Deputy Chief 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: Medical Examiner for Erie County, New York. Doctor Carlo Manley, 9 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: clinical psychologist and author of Aging Joyfully and Joy From Fear. 10 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: And from Heavy dot Com reporter Jennifer Zikowski Crime Stories 11 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. We're in Little Media. We're at Palace 12 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: for today's Drive and Western. This is an apartment complex 13 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: with about a hundred units by my count here and 14 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: just beyond that crime scene tape in the second farthest 15 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: unit on the first floor, we have seen homicide investigators 16 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: come in and out. Neighbors tell us that the resident 17 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: noticed a smell, reported it, and discovered a body within 18 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: the wall. We also don't understand the nature of this. 19 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 1: I mean, these are typical apartment walls. We're talking maybe 20 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: about four to five inches thick, So there is a 21 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: possibility is this an adult body, is an infant or 22 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: a child. At this point, we do not know. We're 23 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 1: just going by what neighbors are speaking about here this morning, 24 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: at this complex. As they wake up and get this 25 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: very shocking news that the Sheriff's department is here investigating 26 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: potentially a body found within the walls of this apartment complex. 27 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: Neighbors alert police to a horrible smell. The next thing 28 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: you know, they are on the same with canines. I mean, see, Grace, 29 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. 30 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. This really seems like the 31 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: plot out of a horror movie. The woman in the Wall. 32 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,119 Speaker 1: LA County cadaver dogs have alerted to possible human remains 33 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: found inside of an apartment here at Harbor Hills. LA 34 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: County homicide detectives are conducting a joint investigation with the 35 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:29,959 Speaker 1: Coroner's Office. Corners officials have actually done some excavating inside 36 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: the residence and they have removed what appears to be 37 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: human remains. In terms of identity, sex, race, possible cause 38 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: of death, it's something that's gonna have to be determined. 39 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: In the days that follow Apparently the Sheriff's Department received 40 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: a tip from a confidential source. Detectives are not releasing 41 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: many details, but according to rumblings among neighbors, the body 42 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: had been stuffed into an open space behind a staircase 43 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: inside of a storage closet. Then quite possibly the culprit 44 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: or perpetrators sealed it up with drywall. You were hearing 45 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: our friends at KTLA five. That was Chris Wolf and 46 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: Chris Burrus. How does that happen? A woman in a wall? 47 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: Sounds like straight out of a horror film? With me 48 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: an all star panel, renowned defense attorney, former prosecutor Darryl 49 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: Cohen out of the Atlanta Jurisdiction and landa Metro major 50 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: case detective SWAT officer retired now lawyer James Shellnutt, doctor 51 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: Katherine Maloney, Forensics Deputy Chief Medical Examiner at Erie County 52 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: Medical Examiner's Office, Nickel City Forensics and joining me a 53 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: reporter with Heavy dot Com, Jennifer Zikowski. Straight to you, Jennifer, 54 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: what first alerted neighbors? How did they not know something 55 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: was wrong for this period of time? Well, you know 56 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: this story, Nancy begins in June of two thousand and nine, 57 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: when family members reported thirty one year old Raven Joy 58 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: Campbell missing from Lameda, California, that's located about eighteen miles 59 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: outside of Los Angeles, and also the mother of a 60 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: seven year old son. Lived with a roommate by the 61 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: name of Randolph Garbutt, who is now forty seven years old. Raven, 62 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: who was described by family as innocent, loving and kind, 63 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: had moved into the complex in two thousand and eight 64 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: after having lived at a group home. The Atlanta Journal 65 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: Constitution reported a friend from high school, Nicole Nelson, asked 66 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: her if she wanted to move into the apartment along 67 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: with her boyfriend and as I said before, Randolph Garbutt, 68 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: in order to save money. An officer later said the 69 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: roommates all became friends even from the get go. Raven 70 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: Campbell's family became suspicious of their lovedoings disappearance, and one 71 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 1: of her sisters said she would have never left home 72 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: without her persontee, not many women do. She never went 73 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: anywhere without her purse, trap to her body, and also 74 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: phone calls to family and friends also ceased, which wasn't 75 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: like her. So how that went on for so long. 76 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: People are you know, family members are sort of bleeding 77 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: authorities seeing why wasn't this this location looked into further 78 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: at the time when she went missing in two thousand 79 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: and nine. Well, I've got to agree straight out to 80 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: James shell Nutt SWAT officer now lawyer, James, I don't 81 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: get it. This is where she lived. This was her 82 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: new roommate, him and his girlfriend. That would be the 83 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 1: first place you look. How can you miss a body 84 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: in the wall unless it was moved. Yeah, that's certainly 85 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: possible that it was. You know, it's also possible that 86 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: when they looked, the body had not gone into full composition. 87 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: You know, bodies don't immediately start emitting an odor and 88 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: when they start breaking down and going through that process, 89 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: if it was shortly afterwards, maybe they didn't. Of course, 90 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: you're right, it could have been moved back there and 91 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: put there. You know, obviously, you know from the reports 92 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: that says that they try to conceal it with some drywall. 93 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: It's possible they could have put the drywall up and 94 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: concealed it. It is not the normal place to find 95 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: the body behind drywall, and maybe they just didn't put 96 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: enough effort into really searching it. Darryl Cohen, former prosecutor 97 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: in the Fullton County District Attorney's Office, now defense attorney. 98 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: You can find him at Daryl Cohen dot TV. Daryl, 99 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: I mean you prosecuted and defended a lot of homicides. 100 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: In fact, you and I would cross paths in the 101 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 1: hallway in the District Attorney's office. I never had a 102 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: case where the body had a lot of concealed bodies 103 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: a lot. Never had one behind drywall? Did you not 104 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: ever in my career have I even heard of it 105 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: before this? It's interesting in many many ways. Darn. Yeah, 106 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: well maybe now. And it's interesting in many ways because 107 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: it has to be a very thin body or very 108 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: sick drywall. I mean, how do you do this? And 109 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: why would you do well? Now, wait a minute, Jennifer Zikowski, 110 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: Heavy dot Com reporter. Now, didn't they say there was 111 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: a space It was like behind a closet, and then 112 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: there was a space and then they just covered it 113 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: up with drywall. It's not like they, Daryl, At first, 114 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: I thought the same thing, because let's just say you 115 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: walk through a door and on one side of the door, 116 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: where your right hand is is drywall on the other 117 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: side of the door, there's some more drywall. There's a 118 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: little space in between, I think there is anyway, and yes, 119 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: that's way too thin. But Jennifer Zikowski, how did I 120 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: don't quite understand the manner in which she was hidden 121 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: behind drywall? Okay, so there is a little bit more 122 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: to that. I detective in the case said, Okay, so, 123 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: typically when you picture a hole in the wall, what 124 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: most of us picture would be a hole in the 125 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: wall with a floor directly at the face of the wall, 126 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: if you can kind of paint a picture of that, 127 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: he said, that is not the case here. It was 128 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: a configuration where the hole in the wall inside of 129 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: the closet area actually dropped down several feet to a 130 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: dirt floor. And on top of that, the one reason, 131 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: you know, going back to how did they not you know, 132 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: smell this this body, even if it was initial stages 133 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: of decomposition. While they are saying that it was concealed, 134 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: the odor of the body was concealed with the use 135 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: of laboratory air fresheners. Several laboratory air fresheners. Can that 136 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: really conceal the smell? That's what the that's what they 137 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: said I find that really hard to believe. Take a 138 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: listen to our friend Ted Chin at NBC four Shares. 139 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: Investigators say it will have to be a corner to 140 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: determine exactly who this person was. The family came up 141 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: to us and say they believe they are certain who 142 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,959 Speaker 1: this was. It was their sister who is missing, who 143 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: has been missing since two thousand and found behind the 144 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: wall of her own apartment complex, now Raven Joy Campbell. 145 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: She was thirty one year years old at the time. 146 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: Her family says she has a thirteen year old son. 147 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: Elie County Chriff's investigators say they got a tip yesterday 148 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: about possible human remains. They used cadaver dogs to discover 149 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,719 Speaker 1: the body. They say they've found the body behind the 150 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: wall of an apartment. The family of Raven Joy Campbell 151 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: says people had been complaining about the smell and suspected 152 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: it might be her, but they were told she could 153 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: not be found. He've been no one for six years 154 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: that she's been missing. So finally today they're gonna say, oh, well, 155 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: we'll get back to you. So we joy out here 156 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: ourselves because you all put it on news that our 157 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: body had been found. This is where we told you 158 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: she was, and that the body has to be her. 159 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: There's no question again. Sheriff's investigators say it will take 160 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: some time to confirm the identity of the human remains 161 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: the body that was found. They say they will not 162 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: be making any further statements today, but we will keep 163 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: pressing and asking if they believe this could be possibly 164 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: Raven Joy Campbell, missing now for six years. Crime Stories 165 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace that police opened up a wall near 166 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: the staircase in this unit and found the remains. My 167 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: feeling is that this is Raven. Is her cousin, Raven Kimball, 168 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: who mysteriously disappeared six years ago while living here at 169 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: Harbor Hills. Today, human remains were found stuffed in a 170 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: wall inside unit five or seven at Harbor Hills, same 171 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 1: apartment ravenhead in two thousand and nine. In terms of identity, sex, race, 172 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,599 Speaker 1: possible cause of death, it's something that's gonna have to 173 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: be determined in the days that follow. But Raven's family 174 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: members say, odds are it's their girl. She went missing 175 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: from that location. That location was never thoroughly searched, and 176 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: now we get a call and they find human remains. 177 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: The chances that have being someone else. It's pretty pretty new. 178 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: You are hearing our friends at KTLA that was Rick Chambers. 179 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: Oh my stars. Can you imagine the anger of that 180 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: family reporting with heavy dot com Jennifer Zikowski, no wonder 181 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: they're angry. It was even the same apartment where she 182 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: lived six years ago, exactly. That's that's what's so disturbing 183 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: about this all. How did it take so long? You know? 184 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: Tenants they apparently it had complained of a foul odor 185 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: emitting from the apartment previously and it got pretty pretty bad, 186 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: and that's when they called called investigators up and they 187 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 1: got involved acting on that kid. The detectives went to 188 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 1: the home and the next day they received permission to 189 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: enter the premises from a new tenant who lived there. 190 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: Of course, you know this was over six years later, 191 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: someone else lived there. They proceeded to enter the home 192 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: along with Kana, and those canines watched their hearts send 193 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: something inside of a closet beneath a staircase in the apartment. 194 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: Investigators were then given permission to knock it down after 195 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: finding a hole that had been obviously catched up, and 196 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: that's when they knew something was off. In the next 197 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: week is when Raven Campbell's remains were removed from where 198 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 1: Offers officers had taken down that wall, which was an 199 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: empty area up beneath the steps as we had previously spaded. 200 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: And you know, she had moved in in order to 201 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: save money, but ultimately saving money for this young mother 202 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: would also ultimately cost her her life. Guys, we are 203 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: talking about a lovely young woman that goes missing six 204 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 1: years ago at the time with a seven year old child, 205 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 1: her pocketboot that she always carried strapped across her front, 206 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: wearing it, you know, across her shoulder, and herself on 207 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: stiff in the apartment. Everybody knew that didn't make sense. 208 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: Joining me from Nickel City Forensics the Deputy Chief Medical 209 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: Examiner at Erie County and Buffalo doctor Catherine Maloney, Dodgor 210 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: Maloney again, thank you for being with us and taking 211 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: time out of your very busy schedule to be with us. 212 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: Dodger Maloney. Hey, if any of you listening have a 213 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: weak stomach, you know what turned down the volume for 214 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: just a moment, Doctor Maloney. I gotta figure this thing out. 215 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: I did. I would not have believed that a body 216 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: would still have a stinch a decomposing body six years later, 217 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: I would have thought by that time it would have 218 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: been more mummified. Well, it really depends on the conditions 219 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: of the body. It sounds like he had wrapped the 220 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: body in a blanket and a sheet of plastic, and 221 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: so that probably would have made it difficult for things 222 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: like flies and other animals to sort of break the 223 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: body down and kind of would have trapped all the 224 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,079 Speaker 1: smell inside. So I wonder if something started happening where 225 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: maybe the plastics started to give way, and that's why 226 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: the order became much worse after six years of her 227 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: being down there. Okay, you know what, I hear you talking, 228 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 1: But it's still not making sense to me why after 229 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: six years her body was to the point that there 230 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: was a stanch, because comin sense dictates to me that 231 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: it would have been mummified. Why again, are you telling 232 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: me neighbors could smell it. So with mummification, what you 233 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: really need is a very cool, dry environment, and so 234 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: with the body being wrapped in plastic, that probably perended 235 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: it from drying out. And so if the body can't 236 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: dry out, then it can't really mummified, and instead it 237 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: kind of gets sort of slimy and gooey. So that's 238 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: probably what happened to her body. And then at some 239 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: point maybe the plastic broke down or something happened and 240 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: the smell became more apparent. Now that makes sense to me. 241 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: With the body being encased in plastic, it didn't have 242 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: a chance to quote I out there was also a comforter, 243 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: just to add that in over the plastic to make 244 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: it even more concealed, and maybe that also added a 245 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: layer to that concealing that smell. Oh, that's that's a 246 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: good point. Jennifer'skowsky with me heavy dot com because apparently 247 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: her body I'm talking about the body of a thirty 248 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: two year old mom, Raving Campbell, was found wrapped in 249 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: a blanket or, as Jennifer is telling me, a comforter, 250 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: which is even more I guess fluffy and would hold 251 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: in more heat. About wrapped in a comforter and then 252 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: a sheet of plastic. You know what's what's confusing to me? 253 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. If 254 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: the neighbors were complaining of this stinch, what about the 255 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: people that lived there? Well, do you remember the other day, 256 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: we were speaking with a doctor. It was a medical examiner, 257 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: a male medical examina. His name is going to come 258 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: to mind in a moment, and I asked him, how 259 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: do you perform him one autopsy after the next and 260 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: keep breathing with a smell of dcom He goes, Oh, 261 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: my kid brother pushed me in the nose when I 262 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: was little. I have no sense of smell. I'm like, okay, 263 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: I guess that's a plus in your line of business. 264 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: But Daryl Cohen, how could the residents not know something 265 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: was horribly wrong? Why did it take neighbors to call police? Nancy, 266 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: I am baffled. But perhaps it goes back to the 267 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: old days when women would have their hair permed, and 268 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: you could go to a department store. Those of us 269 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: who didn't work there heard a smell, a terrible odor. 270 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: Those people that worked there just didn't smell it. They 271 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: became oblivious to it. Perhaps the neighbors the residents thought, well, 272 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: this is normal. I don't understand how they would think 273 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: it's normal. But there are some things that we just 274 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: cannot explain. This is one I think that's not explainable. 275 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: I just don't understand. In house six years pass and 276 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: cops knew nothing. What do we know about the body? 277 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: To you, Jennifer Skowski, what was the cood or could 278 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: they even tell? Well? Yes, So what they determined was 279 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 1: that Raven Campbell was eaten to death with a hammer. 280 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: She was blushing to death, an absolutely horrifying way to go, 281 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: and they determined that she died of blunt force trauma. 282 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: Take a listen to Lieutenant Steve Yak with the La 283 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Department. Ultimately, the case went cold, and fortunately 284 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: in June of two thousand and fifteen, homicide detective Rich 285 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: Lopez received a phone call from an informant who said 286 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: that she had information that there was a body hidden 287 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: in the wall of the residence in Lomita where Raven 288 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: Campbell went missing from in two thousand and nine. Detectives 289 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: responded to that residence that day, there was no one 290 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: at home. Ultimately, that weekend, detectives used a cadaver dog 291 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: who showed interest in a certain portion of the residence. 292 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 1: It was a portion of a clause it and there 293 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 1: appeared to be a patchwork hole a hole had been 294 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: patched over in the closet. Detectives removed the actual piece 295 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: of paneling that was used to patch it up, and 296 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: there appeared to be something suspicious behind this wall on 297 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: the floor, a floor a good distance down in this 298 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: closet area of the residence. Ultimately, the following week, the 299 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: sort team from the Corner's office and homicide detectives responded 300 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:25,360 Speaker 1: and human remains were exhoomed and recovered from the residence 301 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: in the hole in the area behind the hole in 302 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: the closet. Corners Office did their work and ultimately the 303 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 1: human remains were verified to be that of Raving Campbell. 304 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:54,439 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Jitnibert Szikowski. I just still 305 00:18:54,480 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: concerned that it took cops this long to find the body, because, 306 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: as you pointed out, when she goes missing, her purse 307 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: and her phone were still there. That was where she lived. 308 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: And now we have a tipster, a CI confidential informant 309 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: appear out of nowhere all these years later to not 310 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: only say, hey, there's something that smells really foul coming 311 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: out of this apartment, but act she knew there was 312 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: a body in the wall. My ancious Smith is the 313 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:29,719 Speaker 1: girlfriend of Garbet, and she was guaranteed immunity by officials 314 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: in order to speak out against him. Shares a child 315 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: with him, and she testified that he revealed her that 316 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: he killed Raven by sound in her head with a hammer, 317 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: bludgeoned her to death. And in fact, her her quote 318 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: is he hit her one time and she kind of 319 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: fought for her life, and he hit her again end quote, 320 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: and then again she said she said God wanted her. 321 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: That is why she is saying took her life. I mean, 322 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: when you narrow down the suspects. As a matter of fact, 323 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,719 Speaker 1: take a listen to Lieutenant Steve Yak. A woman by 324 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: the name of Raven Campbell's thirty seven years old. She 325 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 1: went missing in July of two thousand and nine from 326 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: a residence on Western Avenue in Lomita. Homicide Detectives Missing 327 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: Persons Detail did some work early on as part of 328 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: that missing person investigation. Interviews were conducted, bank records were checked, 329 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: phone records were checked. Ultimately, the case went cold. At 330 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: the time that Raven Campbell resided at that residence in 331 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 1: Western Avenue, she was one of four people living there. 332 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: There was a friend of several years and I'm gonna 333 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 1: identify her as Nicole. She resided there with her boyfriend 334 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: and our detectives wanted to speak with whoever the residence 335 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: of record were. It was Nicole and her boyfriend, and 336 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: they indicated the detectives that they were friends of hers, 337 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: especially Nicole had been friends for years. They brought her 338 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: to live at the residence so she could save some money, 339 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 1: and ultimately they found out that during this six months 340 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: that Nicole was out of their prior to her disappearance, 341 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: Randolph Garbatt was also staying there as a friend. You 342 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,959 Speaker 1: were just hearing whiching at Steve Yacht with the La 343 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: County Shares Department Homicide Division. I mean, you know, common sense, 344 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, that's where she's living. It took him six 345 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: years to figure that out. And they keep saying the 346 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: case went cold. I don't think the case went cold. 347 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: I think they didn't follow through with the search for 348 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: Raven Campbell. I don't understand why they'd never executed a 349 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 1: search warrant. I understand that it was an odor. You 350 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 1: execute a search warrant, you use your Gondavi dogs, And yeah, 351 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: they did exactly the right thing many years later. So 352 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: why did this go cold? What happened? Question? I don't understand, 353 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: but I do understand why there's immunity to a certain 354 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: CEI take a listen to our friend, reporter Rick Chambers 355 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: a KTLA. Nicole Nathan was Raven's roommate at the time 356 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: of the disappearance. She and her boyfriend Raymond Pardue may 357 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: be the last two people to see Raven alive. This 358 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: past May, Nicole posted on Facebook that she missed Raven, 359 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: but Raven's family tonight is suspicious. I absolutely think that 360 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:21,360 Speaker 1: Nicole is responsible for her disappearance and or death. Detectives, though, 361 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: tell the family that Miss Nathan is cooperating with them 362 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: as for positive ID on the remains. Dental records should help. 363 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: Raven had a gap in her front teeth and that 364 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: could make identification a bit easier. And Raven Campbell's family 365 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: is upset tonight with the La County Sheriff's Department. They 366 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: asked that Unit five h seven be searched six years 367 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 1: ago when Raven disappeared, but detectives apparently never followed up 368 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: on it. You are hearing our friends there at Katiela. 369 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: That was reporter Chambers. I guess they are upset, even 370 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: neighbors calling police. Now, take a listen to Chris Wolf 371 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: at Katla. This is the story circulating among neighbors is 372 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: like Jose Luna, I don't know what's beyond this wall, 373 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: you know, in the theme, I guess they found her 374 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: did down here in this closet. Like, Yeah, I'm really shocked. 375 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: I think everybody's really shocked. You know, I've talked to 376 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 1: my friends and you know, it's shocked to hear that 377 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: there's a you know, a body behind the walls. Authorities 378 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: had to relocate the family currently living in the apartment 379 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: now under investigation. Well, they're you know, they're trying to 380 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: figure out who lived there at the time. According to reports, 381 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: thirty two year old Raven Joy Campbell lived at the 382 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: apartment in two thousand and nine when she disappeared. Family 383 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: members now fear the worst and believe part of the 384 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: mystery of their loved ones disappearance may have been solved. Yeah, 385 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: the missing person case involving Raven Joy Campbell went cold 386 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: during the last six years until this recent tip that 387 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 1: her body was behind a wall here at Harbor Hills Apartments. Again, 388 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: nothing is confirmed other than the fact that La County 389 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: Corners Office is examining possible human remains. So by to 390 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: you Jennifer Sikowski joining me from heavy dot com. You've 391 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: got Raven. She has a seven year old child living 392 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: with Randolph Garbett, who is the boyfriend of Nicole, and 393 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: I hear Raven's family blaming Nicole, and isn't it true 394 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: when CoP's approach Randolph Garbett, he actually blames Nicole as well. 395 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 1: It's my understanding that he says Nicole is the one 396 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: who murdered Raven, but then he took the fall for it. 397 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 1: That sounds pretty hard to believe for me. Yeah, and 398 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: that's exactly what transpired, and in what he did place 399 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: the blame on his ex girlfriend. His attorney argued that 400 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: it wasn't true and that he didn't his client did 401 00:24:55,600 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: not kill Raving Campbell, and that Maisha was the one 402 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: who killed her, saying he confessed only so that their 403 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 1: child would still have a mother. Officials didn't buy that, 404 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: and it really isn't clear why authorities didn't connect Smiths 405 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: with the crime, as she was receiving mail and government 406 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: issued checks in the victim's name. Hold on, hold on, 407 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: right there. James shell Nutt, twenty seven years of the 408 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: Atlanta Metro Major Case Detective squat officer. Now, lawyer, there 409 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: you go right there, getting her checks, getting her income. 410 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: I wonder how long this woman, Nicole allegedly cast the 411 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: victims checks that were coming in the mail. Yeah, you know, 412 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: that'd be really interesting to know. You know, a lot 413 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: of homicides are solved after the fact by people being greedy, 414 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: by people pushing it too far. You know, it's not 415 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: enough that they killed this woman and stuffed or in 416 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 1: a wall. Now she's going to maximize the crime even 417 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 1: further by taking this woman's check, taking her money. She 418 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 1: even had possession of this lady's ID card, using her identity. 419 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: And I think that greed, I think that boldness. Those 420 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: are two of the things that got her caught in 421 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: this situation, or at least led to an arrest in 422 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: this situation. You know, I look at this and I think, 423 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: why did this lady get immunity when I first started 424 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: looking at this story. But you know, there is a 425 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: real chance, a real chance that this lady was the killer. 426 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 1: And I think that prosecutors probably looked at that. I 427 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: think that, you know, it's not necessarily what the prosecutor believes, 428 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: it's what the prosecutor thinks. A jury may believe, and 429 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: I can understand how they grant immunity, and I can 430 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: understand how the situation I folded the way that it did. 431 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,199 Speaker 1: When you say you understand how they granted immunity to 432 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: the girlfriend, what's there to understand? Why can't they both 433 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: be tried and let them stew in the same pot together? Absolutely, 434 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: I agree with you one hundred percent. I think that 435 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 1: I think that they needed a witness in this case. 436 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: I think that they needed someone to point the finger, 437 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: and I think that they will possibly and I'm trying 438 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: to read the mind of somebody hindsight, but I think 439 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: that they were possibly concerned that a jury may not 440 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: be able to make a determination as to which one 441 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 1: actually did it. Well, you know, he's got a point 442 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: to doctor Catherine Maloney, Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Erie County 443 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 1: Medical Examiner's Office, Nickel City Forensics, Doctor Maloney, what forensic 444 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: evidence do you believe could be gleaned from her body 445 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: six years later? And that's where the stinch comes in 446 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: as far as probit of evidence. If the body is 447 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 1: mummified versus a stinch, what does that tell you about 448 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: what evidence can be obtained? So, if the body smells 449 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: really bad. It's probably very decomposed, the skin has probably 450 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: mostly come off, it's going to be really soft, it's 451 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: going to be mushy. It's going to be very difficult 452 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: to get any evidence off the body at all in 453 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: terms of trying to connect this to someone else. I 454 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: think in any case, or in this case, you definitely 455 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: be better trying to get evidence off of maybe the 456 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: blankets or the sheet, because the body itself probably isn't 457 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: going to give you very much. Doctor Katherine Maloney in 458 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: with the body in that state of de comp I 459 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 1: think it would be very difficult to get even touch DNA, 460 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: any DNA at all. Why from the body itself, definitely not. 461 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: I mean the DNA probably would have decomposed itself by 462 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: this point, and then the bacteria that are breaking down 463 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: the body would have also gone after that DNA. I mean, 464 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 1: I think you would definitely not be getting any touch 465 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 1: DNA off the body itself. You'd really have to hope 466 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: you'd be able to get something off those blankets or 467 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: that plastic Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Jennifer Sakowski, Heavy 468 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: dot Com Wan garb It Randolph E. Garbett forty three 469 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: was approached about the time that Raven Campbell lived in 470 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: the apartment and her But what does he story about 471 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: raising Campbell returning home after a night of bingo with 472 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: friends and said that she had fallen down and hit 473 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: her head. He then said he was afraid that he 474 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: was going to be blamed for these injuries and subsequently 475 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: suffocated or using a plastic bag so he wouldn't get 476 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: the blame for her being hurt. Masha Smith, the girlfriend, 477 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: now she had a different story. Doing testimonies. She said 478 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: that she had fallen asleep. She was actually the one 479 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: who had been out playing bingo, and she was startled 480 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: awake after she heard a wall being drilled into and 481 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: that's when she discovered Garbutt inside the closet beneath the staircase, 482 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: and she said he was drilling a hole. And that's 483 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: also when she witnessed a body being wrapped up and 484 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: covered by the floral comforter. Smith said Garbutt simply pushed 485 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: pushed the body into the wall, and she also testified 486 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: to having moved a body herself about two inches and 487 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: kept to look out for anyone who might have witnessed 488 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: what was going on. That's instructed by Garbet detectives that 489 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: Garbet try to conceal the odor of the body, which 490 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: we went through with the use of, you know, several 491 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: laboratory air fresheners. Well, this is what I don't understand 492 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: right there too, Daryl Cohen, renowned defense attorney out of Atlanta. 493 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: How do you wake up and you see your roommate 494 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: stuffing a body into the wall, and then you don't 495 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: run out call nine one one, You actually help and 496 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: push it in about two more inches? How does that work, 497 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen? Because that soundsn't It sounds an awful lot. 498 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: And maybe they helped because they were fearful if they 499 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: didn't that they would be a co defendant. So better 500 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: to help and hide it, even though you can't conceal 501 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: it and certainly can't hide the smell. But it's a 502 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: codefendant from the moment it wakes up to the moment 503 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: there's a conviction. This is another thing. Jennifer Sagowski Heavy 504 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: dot Com. We've got the woman you refer to, Masha Smith. 505 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: You have Randolph Garbutt, but you also have the Nicole person. Now, 506 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: who are these three people in relation to each other? 507 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: And Nicole lived with her boyfriend along with the other 508 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: two garbut was not romantically involved with anyone there. But 509 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: all four of the people, including the victim, were roommates. Well, 510 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it seems to me to Daryl Cowen, defense attorney, 511 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: if he gave a statement that she the victim, Raven Campbell, 512 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: came in with bruises and injuries from a night at 513 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: being go yeah, I guess, I guess pretty crazy at 514 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: the Bingo hall, and he was afraid he would be 515 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: blamed for her bruises, so then he suffocated her. Daryl Cohen, 516 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: why do we need a witness? Why do we need 517 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: to get immunity to anybody is belies belief and belies logic. 518 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: When he says that this is what happened, there is 519 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: no immunity. There is nothing but a double prosecution. But 520 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: there's something here that we don't know about, and there's 521 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: something that we need to find out. I don't know 522 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: what it is, but with all due respect, it doesn't 523 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: smell right. And then an arrest Raven Campbell. We've now 524 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: known by police that the suspect they've arrested in her 525 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: murder was one of her former roommates, a forty three 526 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: year old man with narcotic convictions now behind bars, charged 527 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: with her murders. Take a look at some of the 528 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: video from the scene. I'm back in July. Campbell's body 529 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: was discovered there in July at the Harbor Hills Housing 530 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: projects after she was reported missing for six years. Tips 531 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: led police to the apartment where they found her body 532 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: stuffed in a wall of the apartment that she shared 533 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: with those roommates. The cause of death, according to police, 534 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: blunt force trauma. Her family had suspected all along some 535 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: of her old roommates might be involved in her disappearance. 536 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: Police said the suspect, forty three year old Randolph Garbutt, 537 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: definitely was involved. Our suspect, mister Garbutt was also living 538 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: there at the time that we verified that Raven was 539 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: living there, And what we know right now is that 540 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: all four we're friends. That police do say the other 541 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: two roommates have been cooperative with police, but so far 542 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: have not been arrested. They stress the investigation is ongoing. 543 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: Police will not elaborate at this point the motive for 544 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,959 Speaker 1: the murder. That's NBC four reporter Makishio Medina to Jennifer 545 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: Sigowski that victim's family is furious about a sweet sentence 546 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: of just eleven years plus credit for time served, which 547 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: was four years. So he's basically going to do the 548 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: amount of time that she was behind the wall did 549 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: exactly how Raving Campbell's sister, Cynthia Campbell what she stated 550 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: in court that the quote just it's chilling. It hit me. 551 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 1: She said. The irony is this man will probably only 552 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: do about as much time as she was while she 553 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: was in the wall. The punishment is not just, but 554 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,720 Speaker 1: we're just going to have to accept it. How sad 555 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: is that? How sad is it that she had this 556 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,959 Speaker 1: at the time when she went missing seven year old son, 557 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: who I believe is on the verge or just turned eighteen, 558 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: and family members said that he was really holding on 559 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: to the belief that she was still alive. So if 560 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: you can imagine infuriated, that is heartbreaking. I mean, Daryl Cohen, 561 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: can you think of any reason why they would get 562 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: such a light sentence. I cannot, Nancy, I am just befuddled. 563 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: I'm unable to well, I can't think of one. Go 564 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: ahead because maybe they thought, maybe prosecutors thought they couldn't 565 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: prove the case and so they would take whatever they 566 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: could get I agree, but a confession alone does not 567 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: a case make. As a matter of fact, the law 568 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: is that a case cannot be prosecuted on a confession alone. Uh, 569 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: then you've got a confidential informant. But if they're going 570 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 1: to stay confidential, that may mean you can't get them 571 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: to testify. I just I agree with you, Darryl. Of course, 572 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 1: it's a ridiculous sentence. I'm just trying to think of 573 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: any justification as for the short sentence. Cashing those chats, Sorry, 574 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: but that's a that's just something I think is so 575 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 1: important in this A huge component. She was out cashing 576 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 1: these checks. Why why was she granted community right away? 577 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: Why is why was that not looked into further? And 578 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: if that part of why it was which I was 579 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: cashing checks? Jennifer Mysia Smith the garbage girlfriend, Okay in 580 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: my mind, James shell Nutt between the Macia Smith and 581 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 1: girlfriends still cashing checks. A statement from Randolph Garbutt that 582 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: he strangled her, asphyxiated her, and then hid the body. 583 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 1: I mean and frankly hiding the body alone. Why would 584 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: you hide the body if there was not something nefarious involved. 585 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,240 Speaker 1: I don't know why they plant it out so cheap. 586 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know why they got such a 587 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 1: light sentence. Yeah, it's bothersome. And I agree Michael made 588 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: some good points a month ago when I agree with 589 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: a lot of the points, and he said, as well, 590 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: as you made some good points that I think the 591 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: prosecutors were concerned about this, you know, And again it's 592 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: always tough to get back and reread their mind, but 593 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,240 Speaker 1: you have to think that the thought process was looked. 594 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 1: She could have verywell been involved. The prosecutors could have believed, hey, 595 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 1: this lady may be more involved than what she's telling us. 596 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 1: And I think maybe they picked their poison in this 597 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: case and said, look, if she is involved, we can't 598 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: necessarily prove it in the actual murder itself. We need 599 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: a witness. We know that he's involved. Yeah, let's just 600 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: pick our poison. Let's make sure we prove a case 601 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: against at least one of them and go from bear. 602 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 1: And that's sad to think that it works that way, 603 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: but sometimes you do pick the poison. And another point, 604 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,359 Speaker 1: another point following up on what you're saying, James shell Nutt, 605 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: is when the prosecution they find the body six years later, 606 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: when the prosecution gets the case. They didn't have anything 607 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,320 Speaker 1: to do with cops not finding the body first go around. 608 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 1: They're stuck with the case six years old, and they've 609 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: got to make silk out of a sal's ear. So 610 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: absolutely they may have done just that, pick the lesser 611 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,479 Speaker 1: of two evils. I, however, think they should have tried 612 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,919 Speaker 1: them all together and let a jury come up with 613 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: the verdict on all three of them together. Our prayers 614 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: and sympathy to the family of Raving Campbell, especially for 615 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 1: a little boy growing up without mommy. Nancy Gray's crime 616 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 1: Story signing off goodbye to d