1 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 2: I'm any Reason and I'm Lauren vogel Baum, and today 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 2: we have an episode for you about bok Choi. 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: Yes, any particular reason this was on your mind, born. 5 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: I was thinking about vegetation, okay, fruits, fruits and vegetables. 6 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 2: I was looking for something that is nice and seasonal 7 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 2: for the winter and realized that we have not done 8 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 2: back choi yet. 9 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: Nope, we have not, but we have done a lot 10 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: of past episodes related to bok choy. 11 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 2: Yes, many cousins, radishes, bsabi, horse, radish, mustard, arugalala. Those 12 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 2: are just the ones that I thought of off the 13 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 2: top of my head. I'm sure there's others. 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, there are. I do love bock choy too. 15 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: I usually use it in soups, and I have to 16 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: admit it was kind of a newer acquisition in my 17 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: cooking of it. I'd had it at restaurants previously, but 18 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 1: me cooking it, but it's so nice, Yeah, yeah, it's 19 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: it's really it's such a delightful vegetable. 20 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 2: My very favorite Chinese place in town High or urban 21 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 2: High does a stir fry that's just bock choi with 22 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: tofu skin just in this really like light ginger garlic, 23 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 2: sesame sauce or like almost like a broth kind of 24 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 2: and it's just so nice and light and tender, and 25 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 2: oh it's so beautiful. 26 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: I'll have to check that out because I love tofu 27 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: skin as well. 28 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 2: Yes, it's just it's just a whole dish full of 29 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: these like wonderful, delicate, kind of silky textures. And I'm like, yes, 30 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: thank you. How did you know. 31 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: Exactly what I needed? Okay, Well, good recommendation. Well, I 32 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 1: guess that brings us to our question, sure, bockchoi? 33 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 2: What is it? Well? Back Choi is a type of 34 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: leafy green vegetable that grows in clusters or heads of 35 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 2: leaves that are each relatively smooth and flat, each with 36 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 2: a big, broad, juicy rib that'll be white to pale 37 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 2: green in color, and then a short, wide, rounded blade 38 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 2: of darker green coming up off of that. Like, the 39 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 2: leaves are at least equal parts rib and blade. Yeah, 40 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 2: each leaf is sort of spade shaped. The whole head 41 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 2: can be smaller than a hand or as large as two, 42 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 2: but will generally be mild and vegetable and a little bitter. 43 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 2: Sweet in flavor with maybe just a tiny hint of pepperinus. 44 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 2: It's tender and mild enough to be eaten like raw 45 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: and a salad. But those big ribs will also retain 46 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: a little bit of crunch when cooked, maybe chopped into 47 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 2: a stir fry or simmered into a super stew. Maybe 48 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 2: it's part of a hot pot. The blade part of 49 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: the leaves will wilt when heated, but they don't fall 50 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 2: apart and have like a really nice, silky sort of 51 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 2: chew to them. You can also pickle them to preserve them, 52 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 2: or chop them fine for texture and or color, like 53 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 2: as a filling in dumplings or something like that. It's 54 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 2: just a really mild, pretty leafy green. It's like a 55 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: it's like a very polite cabbage. Buck Choi makes eating 56 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 2: your greens feel like a treat. 57 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's exciting. It's nice. 58 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: It is so good, okay anyway, oh yeah. Buck Choi 59 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: is one of the many cultivars of the species Brassica rappa, 60 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: part of the larger mustard family. Different varieties of the 61 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 2: species have been developed for different purposes, including turnips for 62 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 2: their roots, seedy strains for canola oil, and leafy varieties 63 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 2: for things like a big curly leaved Napa cabbage and 64 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: smaller smooth leaved bock choi. All of these things that 65 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 2: I just said all count as the same species because 66 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 2: they can all cross fertilize with each other. Bokchoi itself 67 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 2: goes by a lot of different names and spellings of 68 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 2: those names bocchoi, hoc choi choi, some Chinese white cabbage, 69 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 2: or celery cabbage, mustard cabbage, field mustard, spoon cabbage, And 70 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 2: those are just the ones that have taken off English. 71 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 2: There's a bunch more out there, and there's a bunch 72 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 2: of confusion about them. 73 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: Yay, yep, indeed there is, but we're. 74 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: Trying our best, okay. So, Bocchoi grows in subtropical to 75 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 2: temperate environments. It basically prefers like human comfortable temperatures, but 76 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 2: can survive heat and frosts if the weather is nice enough. 77 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: It can have like two to three growing seasons a year. 78 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 2: The plant grows roots down to the soil and a 79 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 2: thick stem up into the air, off of which broad 80 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 2: leaves grow in a loose head, each leaf overlapping sort 81 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 2: of like petals on a flower. New leaves come up 82 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: from the center of the head, and you can harvest 83 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 2: individual leaves off of the outside of the head, or 84 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 2: just cut the whole head off at the stem. You 85 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 2: typically want to do that after about two months of growth, 86 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: when the plant is mature, but before it's sent up 87 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 2: a flower stalk. The flowers are edible too, and can 88 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 2: be used in salads or as a garnish. They're these 89 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 2: tiny little yellow buddies. If pollinated, they will each develop 90 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 2: a small, hard, brown colored fruit that will split open 91 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 2: when the many tiny seeds inside have developed. And yeah, 92 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 2: you can harvest the leaves or the whole head when 93 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 2: they're younger or old. They'll go from sweeter and more 94 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 2: delicate to a little bit more bitter and tougher. But 95 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 2: generally bock choy is pretty like fleshy and crunchy and pleasant. 96 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 2: Bock Choys leaves are like really loosely packed compared to 97 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: a lot of its other cabbagee cousins. Well, what about 98 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 2: the nutrition by itself? Back choi is really good for you, 99 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 2: lots of fiber and micro nutrients, so it'll help fill 100 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 2: you up and let your body get stuff done to 101 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 2: keep you going. A pair with some protein and fat, 102 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 2: which is delicious. 103 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: Indeed it is. We have a general number for you. 104 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 2: We've got a number adjacent fact. So, China is the 105 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 2: world's top producer, followed by South Korea, Japan, and the Philippines, 106 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 2: and in the United States, California produces the most. Yes, yes, 107 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 2: I had a few other numbers, but I'm pretty sure 108 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 2: that they were referring to nap a cabbage, not bock choi. 109 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Lauren and I were discussing this before we 110 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: started recording. This was a real pain in this episode 111 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: because they're not the same, but people do sometimes equate 112 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: them as the same. 113 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean they're both quite close and they 114 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 2: look vaguely similar. There's one note in here that is 115 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 2: that I'm sticking with it being bock Choi because I 116 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 2: wanted to talk about it. 117 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: Lauren sticking to her guns on this one. Yeah, yeah, yes, 118 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: And we will get into that in the history section, 119 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: which we will get into as soon as we get 120 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: back from a quick break. 121 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 2: For a word from our. 122 00:07:51,600 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: Sponsors, and we're back, Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you, Okay. So, yes, 123 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: the history of Bockchoi is really tricky to pin down, 124 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: especially given how many names have been and still are 125 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: used to refer to it, and confusion with Napa gabbage tricky. 126 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: It's just hard hard to pin down. Also, there were 127 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: a lot of dishes that I was researching that sounded 128 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: really cool that sometimes people put backchoy in, but then 129 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: I would come to find out that it's not typical, 130 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: so I didn't put that in there. But listeners please 131 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: write in if there is a particular dish you associate 132 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:47,319 Speaker 1: with bockchoy. And also, as we've discussed before, when something 133 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: is from Asia or some other place, non English speaking 134 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: primarily place can be hard to get good resources. So 135 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: right in, right in, if there's anything that we may 136 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: stollis yeah, always, but all right. Bockchoy likely originated in 137 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: China over two thousand years ago. Some of the first 138 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: records of cabbage, generally in China go back to five 139 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 1: hundred CE. However, the ancient ancestor of Bokchoi Brasca Rappa 140 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: was domesticated somewhere between four thousand to six thousand years ago, 141 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,599 Speaker 1: likely in Central Asia. And this is kind of a 142 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: new research development. So in a lot of places it 143 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: doesn't say this, but newer evidence has updated how old 144 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: it is This brasca eventually led to all sorts of 145 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: diversification and crops, including bocchoi. Historians believe that farmers in 146 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: East Asia and Europe selectively bred early turnips for longer leaves, 147 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: eventually leading to bokchoi, and over the years, selective breeding 148 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: within bokchoi has led to a lot of varietals. The 149 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: fresh vegetables were typically sold at markets, and anything that 150 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: was unsold was pickled in brine. Apart from being a 151 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: food stuff, it was also used medicinally to treat things 152 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: like coughs, colds, or an upset stomach. I couldn't find 153 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: hard evidence in English, but since bokchoi was pretty hardy, like, 154 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: you could grow it in a lot of places. 155 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 2: It grows pretty easily within a couple months. 156 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, I imagine it ended up in all kinds 157 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: of dishes like stir fries and stews. Pretty early on. 158 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: Bokchoi first spread throughout nearby Asia. After that, according to 159 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: some sources, bok choi made it to Korea by thirteen 160 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: hundred CE, and possibly in Kimchi. Bokchoy plantations in Japan 161 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: and Malaysia trace back to the nineteenth century, although it 162 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: was almost certainly present before then, and records indicate that 163 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: bokchoi had made its way to Europe by the mid 164 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,839 Speaker 1: eighteenth century, though some sources put it far earlier to 165 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: northern Europe during the time of Ancient Rome. Oh wow, Yeah, 166 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: there's actually a lot of academic debate about that. Yes, 167 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: Swedish naturalist and friend of Carl Linnaeus Pear Osbeck brought 168 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: some seeds to Europe in seventeen fifty one, and Jesuit 169 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: missionaries transported them to German scientists that were working in Russia. 170 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: So it was kind of spreading, okay, all about Yeah, 171 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: when it first arrived in Malaysia, it was frequently too 172 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 1: expensive for the poor from what I read well, speaking 173 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: of a different category of expensive, Apparently there was something 174 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: of a trend of carving jadite like the gemstone, into 175 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: the shape of bak choi and other cabbages around China 176 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: right around the eighteen hundreds. There is a very famous 177 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: example of this from the late eighteen hundreds. It's thought 178 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: that's about the size of. 179 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 2: A real back choi and uses the stone's natural white 180 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 2: to green coloring to depict, you know, the ribs and 181 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 2: the blades of the leaves. It also includes a couple 182 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 2: of small insects. Yeah. The artist is unknown. It's currently 183 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 2: housed in Taiwan's National Palace Museum. It's apparently the most 184 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: popular piece in the museum. It's considered a national treasure. 185 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 2: It is sometimes translated as being a Napa cabbage, but 186 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 2: it looks more like back choi to me, because it's 187 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 2: got the smooth leaves, not the curly leaves. 188 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: That's right. 189 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sticking with them that I. 190 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: Love this. It is the most popular ones. 191 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is really beautiful and it just looks like 192 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 2: a small like it just looks like a little hand 193 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 2: sized bock choi. I'm like, all. 194 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,719 Speaker 1: Right, you know, we love food related art. 195 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 2: A lot's been written about it. How clever the artist 196 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: was to create something of a not like a vase 197 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 2: or something that's going to want to be smooth, because 198 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 2: this particular piece of stone had some flaws in it 199 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 2: that lend themselves to the weird surface details of Bakhchoi, 200 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:26,079 Speaker 2: but wouldn't have worked in other features. M anyway. 201 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: Yes, I love it. I love it. So. Asian immigrants 202 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: introduced the US to Bahchoi beginning in the nineteenth century, 203 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: especially with the wave of immigration to California in the 204 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds during the Gold Rush. However, it remained relatively 205 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: unknown outside of Asian communities until the mid to late 206 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: twentieth century. There's a really interesting PBS article about this. 207 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, New South Wales in Australia 208 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: introduced new labels for Asian vegetables, meant to clear up 209 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: any confusion around them. Apparently they were often mislabeled and 210 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: there wasn't consistent spelling on the packaging. So for back choice, 211 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: specifically that meant buck choi, so b uk for white, 212 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: bok choi, poc choy for green bock choi, and baby 213 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: buk choi, and then they have like a whole graph 214 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: you can look at it, a little pictures and all 215 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: this stuff. But that was it was getting really popular 216 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of confusion around it in Australia, 217 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: so they were trying to be like, this is what 218 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: this is, let's just clear it up. Yes, I believe 219 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: it spread from there to the rest of Australia after that. 220 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: In more recent years, in the US and other places 221 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: around the world, bock choi has become more available and 222 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: well known to consumers outside of communities already familiar with it. 223 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: I was reading about how this has increased demand and 224 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: how that always comes with some pros and cons and 225 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: especially like with climate change and what that looks like. 226 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: But it is as people get more familiar with it 227 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: around the world and you have increased exposure to it 228 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: through things like no PBS Cooking Show, more and more 229 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: people are trying it outside of just ordering it at restaurants, 230 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: because you can get it a grocery store usually. 231 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's relatively inexpensive, it's easy to cook with. Once 232 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 2: you realize how easy it is to cook with, you're like, oh, okay, yeah. 233 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. There were a lot of when it was first 234 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: starting to get popular, there were a lot of things, 235 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: again outside of where it was already popular, there were 236 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: a lot of things that were like, it's so easy 237 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: to cook, but don't worry about it. Here's how you 238 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: do it. It's gonna be fine. 239 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's not. Oh there's one that I didn't 240 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 2: mention at the top of brissels sprout. Yeah, like, like 241 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 2: a Brussels sprout can be a little bit difficult to 242 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 2: get the texture where you want. Bock choy is. So 243 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 2: it's so it's just like I it's like, oh yeah, sure, 244 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 2: I can do that, no problem there. 245 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. And one of my favorite recipes for bock choi 246 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: has two versions because some people prefer to cook the 247 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: leaves separately than the share. Yeah, like kind of the 248 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: harder stem part, and some people like both, yeah, just 249 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: cooking them at the same time. So they put it 250 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: in there in the recipe and it's just like here, 251 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: if you prefer this way, this is what the leaves 252 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: are gonna taste like, and this is what the stem's 253 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: gonna taste like. Or if you prefer this way, I 254 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: wish I appreciate. Yeah, I love it when they do that. 255 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, yes, uh so yeah. 256 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, that's really all I could find concretely for the 257 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: history part, but would love to hear from listeners about this. 258 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, dishes references. 259 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 2: Have you grown one? Have you taken the stem end 260 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 2: of one that you purchased and planted it? I understand 261 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 2: you can do that. 262 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: Let us know, Let us know. Have you made any art, Oh, 263 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: my goodness, block choy art of any kind? 264 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 2: Do you have any cabbage statuary? 265 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: We need to know, yes, desperately, but I think that's 266 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: what we have to say about block Choy for now. 267 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 2: It is, and I'm serious about the cabbage statuary. It's 268 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 2: an entire thing. But we do already have some listener 269 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 2: mail for you, and we are going to get into 270 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 2: that as soon as we get back from one more 271 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 2: quick break for a word from our sponsors. 272 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you, sponsors, Yes, thank you, and 273 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: we're back with listeners. May very nice smiled. Yeah. 274 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 275 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: So we have a bit of a longer message from 276 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: Rich that we're gonna split. As always, we love getting 277 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: these longer messages, so don't stop sending them, Okay. To start, 278 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 1: Rich writes, the time has come to talk of other things, 279 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,919 Speaker 1: of shoes and ships and sealing wax and succotash and 280 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 1: krabby kings, good interro. It's been a very long time 281 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 1: since I wrote in, but two of your recent episodes 282 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: triggered some core memories of my parents that I hadn't 283 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: thought of in a long while that I felt I 284 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: need to share. The first was dungeness crab. There's a 285 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: story my parents used to tell of long before I 286 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: was born. My dad was in the Air Force and 287 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: stationed in Reno Nevada. They were living off base in 288 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: a small partment where the landlord also lived on the property. 289 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: One weekend, they decided to take a drive out to 290 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: San Francisco to see the sites, and on the way 291 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: out there, landlord asked if they would bring him back 292 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: a dungeness crab. Hmmm, a crab, they asked, surely, you 293 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: mean a dozen? They and I had grown up on 294 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: the coast of North Carolina and were used to the 295 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,959 Speaker 1: common blue crabs. The landlord laughed and clarified he truly 296 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: meant one, and they see and they'd conclude the story 297 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: with how they went out to eat and ordered the 298 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: dungeness crab and were shocked at their size when they came. 299 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: This would have been around the late nineteen forties early 300 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, so it wasn't exactly like you'd necessarily see 301 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: what local seafood was like on the other side of 302 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: the country online or have it available in your local market. 303 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: Fast forward to the year two thousand, when I was 304 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: out in San Francisco for the first time visiting a 305 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: college friend and got a chance to order a dungeon 306 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 1: a crab myself. I had seen them in stores by 307 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: that point, but never bought one before and was glad 308 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,439 Speaker 1: to get to try it fresh for the first time. 309 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: I could really imagine how shocking that must have looked 310 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: like if you were used to eating blue crabs by 311 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: the dozen. I must say, by comparison their larger West 312 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: Coast cousins, feel like you're cheating, as it is so 313 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: much easier to pick the meat. 314 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 2: Rich continues that brings us to today. When I was 315 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 2: listening to your episode on Sucatash, it instantly reminded me 316 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 2: of a dish my mom made that we simply called soup. 317 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 2: It was made of lima beans, corn, onions, and crushed tomatoes. 318 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 2: The rest varied by time of year, whim and whatever 319 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 2: was left over or available in large amounts, and could 320 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 2: be pole beans, green beans, field peas, carrots, celery, et cetera, 321 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 2: though happily not bell peppers. The meat would invariably be 322 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 2: left over roast chicken or smoked ham, especially after the holidays, 323 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 2: when there was always some leftover. The twist was she 324 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,199 Speaker 2: added rice to it. I'm not sure if that was 325 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 2: because she was trying to make a soup and it 326 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 2: was natural to her that rice went in soup, or 327 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 2: if This was an artifact of growing up in the 328 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 2: shadow of the Great Depression and being used to stretching 329 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 2: things a bit further with cheaper ingredients. And while it 330 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 2: was a bit soupier than succotash, she typically cooked it 331 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 2: until the rice had absorbed most of the water, so 332 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 2: it was in the right general area. Now would always 333 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 2: just called it soup, as I said. But once I 334 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 2: had some friends over and dinner time rolled around and 335 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 2: I pulled out some leftovers for us to have. After serving, 336 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 2: one of them asked if he could get more of 337 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 2: the sucotash. I was confused. Sucotash, in my experience, was 338 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 2: that terrible thing they had as a side in school 339 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 2: lunches that you had to pick if they were out 340 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 2: of tater tots or fried okra. It was bland lima 341 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 2: bean's corn and those tragically square little carrot bits with 342 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 2: absolutely zero seasoning. Now, after listening to the episode, I 343 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 2: can see the connection and feel like this is, if 344 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 2: not a true variant of succotash, at least a parallel 345 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 2: evolution of it. I also have a massive craving for 346 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,199 Speaker 2: it that I'll have to satisfy soon with the batch. 347 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 2: Don't ask for a recipe, though this is one of 348 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 2: those dishes you assemble, however, your heart leads you for 349 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 2: context if you're doing the math on the spread of 350 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 2: years above. I'm only fifty four. My parents were born 351 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 2: in nineteen thirty and thirty two, and I was their 352 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 2: only child, born in nineteen seventy one when my mom 353 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 2: was forty one, which had me straddling a lot of 354 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 2: odd generational gaps, both culturally and culinarily. As such, I 355 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 2: still lament the demise of the Unita biscuit, which is 356 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 2: forever the only acceptable base for proper homemade stuffing at 357 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 2: Thanksgiving or Christmas. Thanks for the great show and first 358 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 2: stirring up a couple of fond memories this holiday season. 359 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 2: Mom and Dad are both gone, but they felt a 360 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 2: little closer these past few weeks. 361 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: Oh oh well, thank you, Yes, yeah, always God when 362 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: we can bring back these memories. 363 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Oh that does sound exactly like sucotash, though, like 364 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 2: I mean, the rice is a different edition. 365 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, and I'm kind of surprised that they 366 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: serve the sad Psychotash at your school. I'm very intrigued 367 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: by different because we've heard from listeners over the years 368 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: of what their school lunches involved, and some of them, 369 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: I'm so taken aback because it was very different from 370 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: what yours was. Yes, and I don't think I ever 371 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: encountered anything like that. 372 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,199 Speaker 2: I didn't eat. I didn't eat school lunch very often. 373 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 2: But I feel like I feel like that was a thing. 374 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm aware of the fact that it 375 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 2: is a cafeteria offering. Yes, yes, yeah, we do have 376 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 2: to do an episode on school lunches. 377 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: We do. It's going to be yeah, yeah, we do. 378 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: So listeners go ahead and start writing in about that. 379 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,239 Speaker 1: Yeah items, because what was it? It was chilly and 380 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: cinnamon rolls. Somebody wrote in about was one of their things? 381 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, So go ahead and start sending those in. 382 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: I love this about the dungeness crawb Yes, I as 383 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: someone who also has had to purchase a crab and 384 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: been unclear on the differences, Like I mean, even I 385 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: have familiarity, but I wasn't certain, and I had to 386 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: ask the lady at the counter. It's like, we're cooking 387 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 1: for six people, We're making this. 388 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 3: Many how many crabs? Helped me out because I had 389 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 3: no idea. Yeah, yeah, no, she did me a solid 390 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 3: most most protein counter. Humans can can be very helpful 391 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 3: about that kind of thing. 392 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: Yes, I do love that. The landlord laughed. 393 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 2: I was like, no, no, no, y'all are in for a 394 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 2: fun surprise. 395 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 1: Go check it out. Yeah, I just need the one, 396 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: do not need a dozen? And they are indeed easier 397 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: to get the meat off of. 398 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 2: Yes, the big ones are so much easier. It does 399 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 2: feel like cheating. 400 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: It does. It feels so easy to kind of feel like, oh, 401 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 1: what is this? I thought it was supposed to be difficult. 402 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 2: I haven't injured myself well hardly more than ten times. 403 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: I know what's going on here. So thank you, thank you, 404 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: thank you so much Fridge for sharing these memories. Yeah, 405 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: and listeners, if you would like to write to us, 406 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. You can email 407 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: us at hello at saberpod dot com. 408 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 2: We're also on social media. You can find us on 409 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 2: Instagram and blue Sky at saber pod and we do 410 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 2: hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio. 411 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 2: For more podcasts my Heart Radio, you can visit the 412 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 413 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 2: favorite shows. Thanks, as always to our super producers Dylan 414 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 2: Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and 415 00:25:52,880 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 2: we hope that lots more good things are coming your way.