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Speaker 1: Hello, fellow grown uppers. Before we get into today's episode,

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Speaker 1: which is an overview of voting in the United States,

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Speaker 1: it's important to say that this episode was recorded before

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Speaker 1: President Trump signed the executive Order called Preserving and Protecting

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Speaker 1: the Integrity of American Elections on March twenty fifth. This

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Speaker 1: order fundamentally changes voter registration requirements by mandating documented proof

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Speaker 1: of US citizenship to register for federal elections. It requires

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Speaker 1: all ballots to be received by election day and threatens

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Speaker 1: to withhold the federal funding from non compliance states. So

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Speaker 1: legal experts have questioned the president's authority to implement these changes,

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Speaker 1: with some people estimating up to twenty one million eligible

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Speaker 1: voters could face challenges registering due to lack of ready

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Speaker 1: access to citizenship documents. The order's implementation remains uncertain as

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Speaker 1: legal challenges are expected. This context is just it's essential

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Speaker 1: to understand how the voting landscape has shifted since we

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Speaker 1: recorded this discussion, as many of the processes and requirements

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Speaker 1: discussed may now be subject to significant changes pending legal outcomes.

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Speaker 1: But we emailed with our guests law professor at University

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Speaker 1: of Kentucky Joshua Douglas for comment who confirms all of

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Speaker 1: this in an article he released in Washington Monthly on

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Speaker 1: March twenty seventh, and goes on to say, quote, the

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Speaker 1: executive order will indeed be challenged in court, and if

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Speaker 1: the court follows the US Constitution and federal law, they

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Speaker 1: will swiftly strike it down. So with all that context

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Speaker 1: in mind, let's get into this week's episode.

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Speaker 2: Ruby, Welcome to grown Up Stuff. I'm Leah Palmery and

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Speaker 2: I'm Matt still O. And Matt, would you say that

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Speaker 2: you're doing good or great?

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Speaker 1: Just as solid good today? Not great?

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Speaker 2: Well? You know what, you just voted because I gave

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Speaker 2: you two options and you voted for one, and.

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Speaker 1: I casted for the worst option. This is I should

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Speaker 1: always cast for greates. You should have I feel like

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Speaker 1: you think yourself into grate right. If you tell people

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Speaker 1: you're great, you're casting a vote for maybe feeling great.

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Speaker 2: Or you're just lying and making sure that they don't

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Speaker 2: have to respond to you in a conversation to hear

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Speaker 2: about all.

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Speaker 1: Your problems that could be that tooe.

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Speaker 2: Either way, yes, always go with I'm feeling great today.

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Speaker 2: But you did vote, and that is what matters, because

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Speaker 2: voting matters, and this is only right because we're going

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Speaker 2: to be exploring voting for grown ups.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: It's the way we as Americans have our voices heard.

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Speaker 2: And while hopefully we participate most years and not just

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Speaker 2: every four years, it's an incredibly important part of our

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Speaker 2: democratic process, and we even still had so much to

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Speaker 2: learn about it. Yeah, So we spoke with joshua A. Douglas,

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Speaker 2: who's a law professor, podcaster, author, and most of all,

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Speaker 2: he can explain both simple and complicated parts of our

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Speaker 2: civic duty to us in ways that are both informative

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Speaker 2: and fascinating at the very same time.

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Speaker 1: And now here's Josh stuff.

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Speaker 3: I'm Josh Douglas. I'm a law professor at the University

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Speaker 3: of Kentucky Go Wildcats. Often when I tell people I'm

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Speaker 3: a law professor, they'll think, oh, I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: be able to understand anything that you say or writ

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Speaker 3: And I've done a lot of work and worked really

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Speaker 3: hard to make my work and my scholarship accessible to

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Speaker 3: the general public because I think it's so important, especially

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Speaker 3: in my field of voting rights, for people to understand

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Speaker 3: what's going on. So to that end, I have my

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Speaker 3: own podcast called Democracy Optimist, I've also written two books

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Speaker 3: for a popular press. One came out in twenty nineteen

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Speaker 3: called to Vote for Us. The other came out in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty four called The Court Versus the Voters. Both

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Speaker 3: are written for a general audience, or both are really

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Speaker 3: books of stories. I tell a lot of stories of

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Speaker 3: some really interesting people, and then sneak in a little

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Speaker 3: bit of law, but only what everyday Americans would need

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Speaker 3: to know to understand the stories. In fact, my last book,

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Speaker 3: The Court Versus the Voters, was listed on a website

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Speaker 3: as one of the top beach reads for twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: four about voting. Now, it's service strange category. I guess

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Speaker 3: beach reads about voting. But I did actually see someone

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Speaker 3: reading the book on the beach, which was really cool. Okay,

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Speaker 3: it was my wife, but but still I saw someone

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Speaker 3: reading the book on the beach, So I think it

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Speaker 3: counts lovely.

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Speaker 1: We're really happier here. I said, we're going to be

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Speaker 1: talking about voting today, and we couldn't be doing it

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Speaker 1: with a better expert than Professor Douglas. Do your students

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Speaker 1: call you Professor Douglass.

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Speaker 3: Students call me Professor Douglas, But you can call me Josh,

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Speaker 3: you're not my thoughts. I won't cold call on you

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Speaker 3: with using the socratic method like I do with my students.

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Speaker 1: Oh thank you, because I don't know if I could

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Speaker 1: handle it. So I would love if you could, in

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Speaker 1: simple time, just talk a little bit about what voting

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Speaker 1: is and why it's so fundamental to our democracy in

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Speaker 1: the United States.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So, of course, voting is the process by which

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Speaker 3: we choose our elected leaders. And many people think of

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Speaker 3: just the presidential election as that's the biggest game in town.

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Speaker 3: It's the super Bowl of elections. But we actually elect

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Speaker 3: leaders from all levels of government, from federal Congress all

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Speaker 3: the way to your state legislature, your governor, and even

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Speaker 3: your local elected officials, your mayor, your city council, and

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Speaker 3: they have an immense impact on your daily life. I mean,

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Speaker 3: people I think don't realize sometimes how they're local officials

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Speaker 3: who they have the opportunity to elect impact the way

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Speaker 3: they interact in the world, whether it's from a pothole

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Speaker 3: on their street or the street lights turning on to

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Speaker 3: where their tax money goes. I often point back to

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Speaker 3: the Declaration of Independence founding document in the United States,

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Speaker 3: which says that a government is legitimate based on the

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Speaker 3: consent of the government. Consent of the government, well, the

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Speaker 3: governs all of us. So we're talking about grown up stuff.

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Speaker 3: How do we decide what our society looks like? And

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Speaker 3: it's pretty much nothing more grown up than that than

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Speaker 3: I guess paying taxes. But who leads us impacts that

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Speaker 3: as well. So it's really fundamental to people's everyday lives,

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Speaker 3: even if they don't realize it or recognize it.

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Speaker 2: No, Josh, you may be a democracy optimist, but not

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Speaker 2: everybody feels the same. So how would you respond to

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Speaker 2: somebody who feels like their individual vote doesn't really matter.

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Speaker 2: They kind of drag their feet going to the polls

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Speaker 2: or don't do it at all. How do you say, no, no,

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Speaker 2: here's why your vote does matter.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think I have three responses to your question,

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Speaker 3: and the first is what does it mean to be

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Speaker 3: a democracy optimist. It's not that I think everything's going great,

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Speaker 3: that democracy is perfectly threat and we don't need to

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Speaker 3: change or fix things. It's that there's hope for the future.

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Speaker 3: Because if there's not hope, then what's the alternative wallowing

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Speaker 3: in our despair and having this fatalistic view that the

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Speaker 3: system is just doomed and we can't do anything about it,

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Speaker 3: and so we're going to retreat into our everyday lives

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Speaker 3: and not try to fix the system. And if we

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Speaker 3: do that, then yes, the system is doomed. So the

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Speaker 3: first answer to your question of why should I vote,

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Speaker 3: essentially is well, why not? Because it's up to all

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Speaker 3: of us, and people of asking me all the time

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Speaker 3: these days, how do we save democracy? Ultimately it's the people,

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Speaker 3: it's we the people, and so you should be wanting

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Speaker 3: to be part of that. Even if say you live

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Speaker 3: in a state where you kind of know who's going

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Speaker 3: to win the presidential electors in that state, or you

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Speaker 3: live in the district where, because of gerrymanderin the practice

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Speaker 3: of drawing skewed lines, you kind of know who's going

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Speaker 3: to win that district. The second answer is that your

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Speaker 3: vote probably isn't going to make a difference in the

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Speaker 3: outcome except for when it does, and you never know

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Speaker 3: when that's going to be. There are elections every year

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Speaker 3: that come down to one vote or that are tied.

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Speaker 3: So is your vote actually going to matter in the

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Speaker 3: presidential election? Probably not your one vote until it does,

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Speaker 3: until enough of us decide that we do want to

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Speaker 3: show up. And then I guess the third reason I

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Speaker 3: would say of why your vote matters is because even

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Speaker 3: if it doesn't make a difference in that the election

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Speaker 3: doesn't come down to one vote, representation matters. The election

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Speaker 3: officials know the constituencies that voted for them. This is

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Speaker 3: why elderly people get their policies looked at, where young

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Speaker 3: people don't, really because young people tend not to vote

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Speaker 3: as much. So it's about representation. It's about sending a

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Speaker 3: signal to the government, and frankly, not voting doesn't really

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Speaker 3: send much of a signal. I mean, you might say, well,

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Speaker 3: it's a signal that I'm unhappy with the current government,

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Speaker 3: but that doesn't really send the signal. It just means

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Speaker 3: that you can be ignored by elected officials, and that's

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Speaker 3: how we get into some of the problems that we

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Speaker 3: have today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think one thing that blows my mind every

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Speaker 1: time elections come around, and I actually would love free

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Speaker 1: to correct me on this if I have the number wrong,

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Speaker 1: But it's around like forty three percent of the population

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Speaker 1: doesn't vote, So it.

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Speaker 3: Really depends on the election you're talking about. So in

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Speaker 3: the last presidential election, in November twenty twenty four, turnout

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Speaker 3: was about sixty three point nine percent. So the last

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Speaker 3: numbers I saw, and what was really frustrating to me

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Speaker 3: is that there were news stories that I saw the

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Speaker 3: day after the election talking about the strong voter engagement

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Speaker 3: that this was the second highest turnout ever, second only

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Speaker 3: the twenty twenty and yet turnout was just under sixty

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Speaker 3: four percent, which means that over a third of the

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Speaker 3: population did not show up. Right, how can we celebrate

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Speaker 3: strong voter engagement when a third of us are not participating.

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Speaker 3: So I'm actually working on a new book project right

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Speaker 3: now that looks at voter turnout and civic engagement. And

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Speaker 3: the working title will see if this lasts by the

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Speaker 3: time the book finally gets published in a couple of years.

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Speaker 3: But the working title is the Forgotten one Third, The

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Speaker 3: forgotten third, the one third of voters that we sort

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Speaker 3: of ignore because while they're not going to show up anyways.

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Speaker 3: And then you start talking about other elections, So midterm

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Speaker 3: elections for Congress, you hardly ever have turnout over fifty

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Speaker 3: percent nationwide. Then let's talk about some states, like my

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Speaker 3: state of Kentucky has off year elections where we elect

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Speaker 3: our governor in odd numbered years turnout thirty percent, which

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Speaker 3: means that if an election is close and one candidate

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Speaker 3: wins by only a little bit, just over fifteen percent

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Speaker 3: of eligible voters are selecting the leaders. And then we

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Speaker 3: can also talk about primary elections. So this is the

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Speaker 3: process where the political parties winnow down their candidates on

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Speaker 3: their side to one for the general election. Primary elections

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Speaker 3: have extremely low turnout, and yet often that's the only

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Speaker 3: game in town. It's the only one that matters because

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Speaker 3: of a district is so skewed towards the Democrats or

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Speaker 3: toilers of the Republicans, we pretty much know that the

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Speaker 3: nominee is going to to win the general election. So

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Speaker 3: we can talk about turnout is sixty four percent or whatever,

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Speaker 3: and that was a record only except for twenty twenty,

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Speaker 3: and that's good to celebrate that, but when we actually

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Speaker 3: dive into the numbers, it's a pretty sad story when

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Speaker 3: it comes to the strength of democracy.

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Speaker 2: Can we ever get it to one hundred?

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Speaker 3: Probably never one hundred, But I think there are various

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Speaker 3: strategies that can certainly boost turnout, and it's one of

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Speaker 3: the things I'm going to be discussing in my book.

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Speaker 3: So one bold idea that probably is not going to

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Speaker 3: get any traction in the US is compulsory voting that

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Speaker 3: a bunch of other countries have. Australia, everyone's required to

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Speaker 3: vote Brazil, and turnout is usually over eighty and sometimes

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Speaker 3: ninety percent in those countries, and it depends on how

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Speaker 3: they implement it. So Brazil's usually a little over eighty percent,

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Speaker 3: but it's pretty easy to provide an excuse. Australia has

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Speaker 3: a little bit of a more difficult process to get

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Speaker 3: out of it essentially, and they're usually at ninety three

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Speaker 3: ninety four percent. They have a big party at the

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Speaker 3: polls called democracy. They have what they call democracy sausages

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Speaker 3: during the sausage sizzle in Australia and kind of make

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Speaker 3: it a big event. I don't think we're ever going

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Speaker 3: to get to compulsory voting nationwide, although there is a movement.

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Speaker 3: So the Brookings Institute put out a study and I

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Speaker 3: was part of the working group that looked into this.

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Speaker 3: We called it universal voting instead of compulsory voting, because

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Speaker 3: I think that sounds nicer, and the full term is

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Speaker 3: universal civic duty voting to kind of emphasize how it's

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Speaker 3: people's civic duty, and there are some states that are

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Speaker 3: looking into either requiring it statewide or at least letting

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Speaker 3: localities local jurisdictions have compulsory voting. But short of that,

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Speaker 3: I think there are a lot of things we can

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Speaker 3: do to improve voter turnout. We know, for example, that

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Speaker 3: voter registration rules make a big difference in turnout, So

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Speaker 3: states vary on when you have to get on the roles.

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Speaker 3: Some states you have to be on the voter rolls

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Speaker 3: about a month before election day or you're out of luck.

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Speaker 3: But a bunch of other states have what we call

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Speaker 3: same day registration, where you can show up to the

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Speaker 3: polls and register and vote at the same time. And

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Speaker 3: what we know is that the states with the highest

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Speaker 3: turnout have same day voter registration. There's a whole bunch

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Speaker 3: of these sorts of policies that I think we can

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Speaker 3: adopt to improve turnout. And then the other side of

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Speaker 3: this has to be civic education. Civic engagement not only

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Speaker 3: K through twelve, but all the way through adulthood. And

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Speaker 3: we need to totally rethink and revamp the way we

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Speaker 3: handle the issue of civics education. As the other aspect

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Speaker 3: of this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oftentimes here after an election, you know, America has spoken,

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Speaker 1: and now we have a new president. But to your

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Speaker 1: point about representation, and thirty six thirty seven percent of

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Speaker 1: people didn't vote in the last presidential election, has America spoken

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Speaker 1: if not everyone is accounted for? So I do certainly

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Speaker 1: hope that we can in our lifetimes get to one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent. But before we get into the specifics about

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Speaker 1: how to register and like the nuts and bolts of

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Speaker 1: like how do you do it, I'd.

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Speaker 3: Actually love for you kind of walk us through it.

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Speaker 1: Just some of the major milestones in the evolution of

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Speaker 1: voting rights in America, because it wasn't always though everyone

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Speaker 1: could vote.

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Speaker 3: Right for a while, sure, so at the founding only

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Speaker 3: white male property owners aged twenty one and older could vote,

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Speaker 3: So it's a very restricted aspect. Then we have a

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Speaker 3: very sorry history of racial discrimination in this country in particular,

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Speaker 3: as well as discrimination on the basis of sex with

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Speaker 3: respect to women's suffrage. And then things have always been

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Speaker 3: kind of expanding and contracting as history has evolved. We've

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Speaker 3: had these expansions of who's allowed to vote, and then

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Speaker 3: there's pushbacks against it, and so the fight for voting

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Speaker 3: rights is a push and pull. Some of the most

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Speaker 3: notable moments in history on this were the fifteenth Amendment

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Speaker 3: to the US Constitution after the Civil War, which said

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Speaker 3: that states cannot deny the right to vote on the

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Speaker 3: basis of race. We had another fifty year struggle after

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Speaker 3: that for women's suffrage, and the nineteenth Amendment to the

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Speaker 3: US Constitution, ratified in nineteen twenty, said that states cannot

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Speaker 3: deny the right to vote on the basis of sex.

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Speaker 3: Then we had a lot of Jim Crow era policies

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Speaker 3: that made it very difficult for minorities in particular to participate,

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Speaker 3: and so finally Congress passed the Voting Rights Act of

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Speaker 3: nineteen sixty five, which tried to break down a lot

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Speaker 3: of the barriers to voter registration and voter access for

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Speaker 3: minority voters. And then the twenty sixth Amendment to the

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Speaker 3: US Constitution lowered the voting age from twenty one to eighteen. Interestingly,

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Speaker 3: on the voting age, there are some cities in the

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Speaker 3: US that let sixteen and seventeen year old vote in

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Speaker 3: either all local elections or school board elections. And so

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Speaker 3: we're not done talking about how to include more people

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Speaker 3: or to think about voter expansions along with the pushbacks

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Speaker 3: on voting rights that we've had.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you can operate a car, I would

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Speaker 2: hope that, yes, you do have some sort of clear

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Speaker 2: train of thought of being able to vote. So I'm

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Speaker 2: not mad at that. So for those who have never

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Speaker 2: registered to vote before, what are the basic steps to

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Speaker 2: register to vote?

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Speaker 3: So most states make it relatively easy by having an

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Speaker 3: online portal to register to vote. Now, if you're listening

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Speaker 3: from Texas, unfortunately, the state has continued to promote voter

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Speaker 3: restrictions or make it less easy to participate in a

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Speaker 3: variety of ways. And there's a couple other states that

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Speaker 3: don't have online voter registration, but most states do, and

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Speaker 3: so you can go and just do a quick Google search,

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Speaker 3: I think it's to vote dot Org will then link

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Speaker 3: you to each state's voter registration portal and usually takes

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Speaker 3: only a couple of minutes and you can get on

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Speaker 3: the voter rules. Some states, you'll have to choose a

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Speaker 3: political party to affiliate with. In those states they have

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Speaker 3: what we call closed primaries, where only members who registered

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Speaker 3: with that party can vote in their prime Marry other states,

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Speaker 3: you don't have to choose a party affiliation. And if

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Speaker 3: you don't want to do the online thing, if you

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Speaker 3: go to get your driver's license, you should be asked

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Speaker 3: whether you want to register to vote. It's a requirement

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Speaker 3: under federal law that every DMV and other government agency

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Speaker 3: like that gives you the opportunity to vote. And it's

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Speaker 3: a pretty simple one page form to fill out. So

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Speaker 3: the process of registering actually is not that difficult in

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Speaker 3: most states, but many places you actually have to affirmatively

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Speaker 3: do it.

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Speaker 1: And then we hear a lot about you know, it's

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Speaker 1: election day and people have been registered before, but they

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Speaker 1: show them on the polls in that day and they

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden find out that they're not registered

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Speaker 1: or they've been taken off of a voter role. So

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Speaker 1: what are the most common reasons why people find themselves

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Speaker 1: unable to vote on election day? And how can that

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Speaker 1: be avoided?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so states are allowed to clean up their voter

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Speaker 3: rules and take people off and they'll get information like

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Speaker 3: people have died, people have moved away. In the states

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Speaker 3: that disenfranchise individuals with a felon conviction, if they get

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Speaker 3: notice of the felony conviction, states are allowed to take

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Speaker 3: your name off the voter roles. In addition, some states

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Speaker 3: follow a process where if you don't show up for

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Speaker 3: two federal elections in a row and then also don't

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Speaker 3: respond to a postcard that gets mailed to you, then

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Speaker 3: they can take you off the roles. So what do

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Speaker 3: you do if that occurs. Well, if you're in a

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Speaker 3: state with same day voter registration, no problem. You can

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Speaker 3: register at the polls right then. But if you're not

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Speaker 3: in a state with same day registration, especially if you're

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Speaker 3: in a state that has a deadline to register, you

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Speaker 3: actually are out of luck. With one kind of small

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Speaker 3: caveat there, if you ever show up to the polls

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Speaker 3: and they say your name's not on the roles, you're

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Speaker 3: not allowed to vote, and you're sure you're in the

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Speaker 3: right place, don't just leave without casting a ballot. Instead,

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Speaker 3: the poll workers are required to give you what's called

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Speaker 3: a provisional ballot, And this is about that you vote

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Speaker 3: and then they set aside and they figured it out

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Speaker 3: after the fact, after election day, whether to count it

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Speaker 3: or not. And this should dispel one myth about our elections,

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Speaker 3: which is that all absentee ballots, all provisional ballots that

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Speaker 3: are valid are counted, and so there's no concern about

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Speaker 3: casting that vote, and the election official results are not

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Speaker 3: official until a week or two later, when actually all

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Speaker 3: ballots are counted. Now, if you are not sure if

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Speaker 3: you're in the right place, well you have to make

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Speaker 3: sure you're in the right location, because if you fill

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Speaker 3: out a provisional ballot and it turns out that you

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Speaker 3: should have been somewhere else across town that was your

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Speaker 3: polling place, and then that provisional ballot will not count ultimately, Matt.

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Speaker 3: To answer your question of how can we avoid that,

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Speaker 3: I always tell people that four to six weeks before

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Speaker 3: election day, go on the online portal and check your registration.

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Speaker 3: I do it every year before the primary, and then

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Speaker 3: again kind of in mid September. I go online and

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Speaker 3: check my voter registration just to make sure there's no

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Speaker 3: problems with it. So the number one way to avoid

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Speaker 3: this is well before whatever deadline your state has for

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Speaker 3: closing the registration books, check your voter registration every single time.

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Speaker 3: It takes about thirty seconds, and it's worth it to

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Speaker 3: make sure you're good to go.

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Speaker 1: You've mentioned this a little bit, that the voting laws

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Speaker 1: are different from state to state. So what are like

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Speaker 1: some significant variations that voters should be aware of depending

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Speaker 1: on where they live.

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Speaker 3: Well, one is the time that polls are open on

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Speaker 3: election day, as well as the number of early voting

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Speaker 3: days and the ability to vote by mail with or

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Speaker 3: without an excuse. So the states really vary on this.

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Speaker 3: Some states say that you have to show up at

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Speaker 3: the polls in person on election day unless you have

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Speaker 3: a valid excuse, and then you can request an absentee ballot,

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Speaker 3: and states vary on the deadlines for which to request

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Speaker 3: that ballot. Other states have certain number of early voting

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Speaker 3: days where you can go and show up before the

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Speaker 3: official And I don't really like calling it election day

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Speaker 3: anymore because we don't really have one election day. We

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Speaker 3: have election days or election week. So some states have

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Speaker 3: three days of early voting, some states have seven. Some

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Speaker 3: states have early voting on the Sunday before the election.

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Speaker 3: And then they're the rules for absentee balloting or mail

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Speaker 3: in balloting sometimes called vote at home. Some states you

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Speaker 3: can just request a ballot and you don't have to

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Speaker 3: provide an excuse. Other states it's going to ask for

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Speaker 3: your excuse, and then the deadlines for when you need

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Speaker 3: to request that ballot so it arrives to you on time,

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Speaker 3: as well as the deadline for when it needs to

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Speaker 3: arrive back to the election officials vary. So just the

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Speaker 3: logistics of voting, and then also we can talk about

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Speaker 3: voter ID laws. What kind of idea do you need? Now?

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Speaker 3: The good news is that there are resources out there

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Speaker 3: that can explain all this for the state that you're in.

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Speaker 3: So I mentioned vote dot org. It's a great website.

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Speaker 3: The League of Women Voters and nonprofit organization typically has

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Speaker 3: a website for ee state and it'll tell you here's

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Speaker 3: when the polls are open, here are the early voting days,

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Speaker 3: here are the locations, here's how you request about by

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Speaker 3: mail and whether you're allowed to, and here's what you

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Speaker 3: need to bring to the polls. Because states very on

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Speaker 3: their voter ide laws as well, I'd.

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Speaker 1: Actually love to hear a bit on the voter ide

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Speaker 1: laws if you don't mind.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I like to tell people that no voter

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Speaker 3: ID law is made the same. States really vary, and

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Speaker 3: so you hear a ton of talk, a ton of

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Speaker 3: rhetoric about photo identification requirements for voting. And I'm someone

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Speaker 3: who does not think that voter ideal laws do much

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Speaker 3: good because they really don't get to any problem. The

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Speaker 3: only problem that they can root out, or any fraud

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Speaker 3: they can root out, is in person impersonation, someone showing

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Speaker 3: up to the polls and pretending there's someone they're not,

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Speaker 3: and we just know from evidence that that just doesn't

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Speaker 3: happen to any meaningful extent whatsoever. But we also know

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Speaker 3: that voter ideal laws can cause disenfranchisement. Now, I think

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Speaker 3: the right embellishes how much fraud there is that voter

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Speaker 3: idea law can prevent. I think the left embellishes how

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Speaker 3: much disenfranchisement actually occurs through voter ideal laws. But it

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Speaker 3: is not zero. There is still some people who are

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Speaker 3: prevented from voting. And if you show up to the

438
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 3: polls and you don't have your ID for whatever reason,

439
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 3: you can fill out what they call a reasonable impediment form,

440
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 3: basically a form that says, here's why I don't have

441
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 3: an idea, I have a reasonable impediment to getting an ID,

442
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 3: and you sign it under penalty of perjury. That's get

443
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 3: referred to the law enforcement, just a double check that

444
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 3: you're not lying. Essentially, again, each state is a little

445
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 3: bit different on this reasonable impediment form, But in many

446
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 3: states you have to then cast a provisional ballot, not

447
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 3: a regular bouot, and some states actually say if you

448
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,239
Speaker 3: fill out that provisional ballot on election day, you've got

449
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 3: to go to the county clerk within five days to

450
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 3: show your ID or to fill out another form. So

451
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,719
Speaker 3: it requires voters to take another step, and some studies

452
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 3: have shown that up to ten percent of the electorate

453
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 3: doesn't have an ID that would suffice under these laws.

454
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 3: They also have a discriminatory effect. So we know just

455
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 3: based on population statistics that ideal laws tend to harm

456
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 3: minority voters more because they just tend to live in

457
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 3: inner cities where they don't have a license, they're taking

458
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,640
Speaker 3: public transportation to work, they just don't have a need

459
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 3: for a photo ID in their everyday lives. And one

460
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 3: court actually said that the North Carolina law on voter

461
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 3: ida was passed to target minority voters, quote with almost

462
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 3: surgical precision. That is the draft of the law to

463
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 3: actually to try to disenfranchised minorities, and that got struck down.

464
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 3: But it gives you a sense of the kind of

465
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 3: battles that we have over voter ID laws.

466
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a quick.

467
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 1: Break and we're back with more grown up stuff. How

468
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 1: do I don't.

469
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: We talked a bit about the different types of voting

470
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 2: to between early voting, mail in, and day of Are

471
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 2: there specific advantages to any of those and disadvantages as well.

472
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 3: That's an interesting question because experts, I think differ a

473
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 3: little bit on the benefits of voting one kind of

474
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,719
Speaker 3: ballot or another. I think the cleanest way of voting

475
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 3: is to show up in person if you can so,

476
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 3: whether that's early voting in person or on election day

477
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 3: in person. And really early voting is great because you

478
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 3: typically avoid longer lines as compared to what you might

479
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 3: have on election day. And the reason I say early

480
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,360
Speaker 3: voting is I think beneficial in person voting, that is,

481
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 3: is that you don't have any concerns about mistakes on

482
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 3: the way you fill out your ballot or the envelope

483
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 3: that goes along when you're voting an absentee, you've got

484
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 3: to fill out an envelope, you've got to sign it

485
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 3: in the right place. Some states actually make you have

486
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 3: witnesses to that as well. There's some states that go

487
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 3: even so far as to say, you need to get

488
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 3: a notary to notarize your absentee ballot. That makes it

489
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 3: very difficult. But there's just some a lot of hurdles

490
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 3: you have to clear as a voter, and if you

491
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 3: make a mistake, your ballot might not count, whereas if

492
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 3: you show up in person that minimizes the potential concerns

493
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 3: you might have with casting about. On the other hand,

494
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 3: voting at home is super convenient, and we know that

495
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 3: the states that make it easy to vote at home

496
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 3: have much higher turnout. So, for example, Colorado automatically mails

497
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 3: a ballot to every registered voter in the state, so

498
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 3: their convenience factor is really great for vote at home,

499
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 3: and I'm a big proponent of that of expansive vote

500
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 3: at home policies for voters who want to take advantage

501
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 3: of that. At the same time, it's easier for a

502
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,479
Speaker 3: voter to make mistakes, so it's a balance between how

503
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 3: careful are you going to be to make sure you

504
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 3: don't make a mistake so your ballot counts versus the

505
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 3: ease of voting at home.

506
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how much early voting and mail

507
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: in ballot voting has changed my life. You know on

508
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: a personal level, like I used to. You know, when

509
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: I was in my early twenties, I would work at

510
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: a coffee shop, and you know, on the voting day,

511
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: I would often lose money because I would actually go

512
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: vote and I'd have to give up a shift, or

513
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: you were rushing to vote early before work or trying

514
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: to squeeze it in at the end of the day,

515
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: so you were kind of in a rush. But with

516
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: early and mail in ballot voting, you actually have some time,

517
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: you know, on the weekend where you can feel a

518
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: little bit more intentional about how you vote. Because I'll

519
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: be totally honest and make a completely fool of myself.

520
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 1: Back in the days of trying to squeeze voting in,

521
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: I'd chow up the polls and have like no idea

522
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: who like fifty percent of the people on the ballot were.

523
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: You know, like iud obviously know like the main you know,

524
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: if it was a mayoral thing or a president, I

525
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: would know who those people were. But you know, there's

526
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: like people running for comptrol or and people running for

527
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: a judge position, and I'd be like, I actually have

528
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: no idea who those people are and what they're trying

529
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: to do, and so I wouldn't vote because I felt

530
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: like I had no say in the matter. But you

531
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 1: take the ballot home, you can do a little bit

532
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: of research on who these people are and what they're

533
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,239
Speaker 1: trying to do. And so my question to you is, like,

534
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 1: how can we best prepare ourselves before going to the

535
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 1: voting booth to like really understand what we're voting for

536
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 1: and how to actually make an impact on what we

537
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 1: want to see.

538
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. So there are organizations that

539
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 3: put out sample ballots and so you can see what's

540
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 3: on the ballot before you go to the polls, and

541
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,239
Speaker 3: you can even fill out your sample ballots. You can

542
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 3: bring it with you, you know what you intend to

543
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 3: vote for. So I would encourage people to do that.

544
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 3: I think what you point to, though, is a more

545
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 3: systemic problem about civic education and how we educate ourselves

546
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 3: about what's on the ballot and what we want to

547
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 3: vote for and so and.

548
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: What a comptroller does? What did they do?

549
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And so this is where I think civic

550
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 3: organizations make a huge difference in helping to educate people

551
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 3: about what's on the ballot. So I mentioned the legal

552
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 3: women voters already and virtually every jurisdiction they put out

553
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: a great voting guide. But I've been remiss not to

554
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,959
Speaker 3: mention an organization in my hometown of Lexston, can Tell

555
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 3: Ucky called Civic Lex. Now full disclosure, I'm on the

556
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 3: board of Civic Lex. So I'm very much proud of

557
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 3: the work that the organization does. But what it is

558
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 3: is to civic health organization that tries to educate local

559
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 3: people living in Lexington, Kentucky about their local government. What

560
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 3: does the local government do, who's in the local government,

561
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 3: what's happening in the local town meetings, the city meetings.

562
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 3: They put out a budget guide every year, easy to

563
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: read with pie charts that say, here's what happens to

564
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 3: your money the local taxes, Here's where it goes. And

565
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 3: they also put out a voter guide. The website's lex

566
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 3: dot Vote l ex dot Vote, and it has profiles

567
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 3: of every candidate for local office, so you can see

568
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 3: who are the people running for these positions. So we

569
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 3: need more of that, and so I encourage communities all

570
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 3: over to look at that model as a way to

571
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 3: help educate the public on what these officials do. So

572
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,959
Speaker 3: for you, Matt in your elections. I would basically go

573
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 3: Google to see is there a legal women Voters or

574
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 3: other similar organization that puts out a voter guide. But

575
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 3: on the broader scale, I encourage people to think about

576
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 3: starting civic health organizations like civic LECs that can provide

577
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 3: that information to the public. Another thing that happens in

578
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 3: the voting booth is like in New York, this happens

579
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 3: all the time. A judge will be running for reelection,

580
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 3: but they're not running against anybody, so like, what what

581
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 3: do you do in that situation?

582
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: It's like just vote for them, I guess, or just

583
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: say like boo, or what do you do in that situation?

584
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 3: So there's a couple of scenarios there. So some states

585
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 3: do what they call retention elections for judges, so it's

586
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 3: a yes or no, so whether the person should keep

587
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 3: their job or not. And so again, if you can

588
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 3: download the sample ballot ahead of time and you can

589
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 3: see what the ballot is asking, you can research that judge,

590
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 3: does it seem like from the news stories they're doing

591
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 3: a good job, or what do they stand for? And

592
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 3: then vote your yes or no on retention. Other times,

593
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 3: you know it's a straight up election for a judge

594
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 3: and that which just means that no one's run against

595
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 3: that person. So if I don't know anything about that candidate,

596
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 3: I'll leave a blank or I'll do a write in

597
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 3: vote and put my daughter just for fun. She comes

598
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 3: to vote with me. She's not eighteen, she's not eligible,

599
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 3: but fund for her to see me write her name in.

600
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 3: You know, those elections, no one's running against that person.

601
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 3: And what's I think really sad and unfortunate is that

602
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 3: we have a ton of elections in this country that

603
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 3: are not contested, that only one candidate. And you mentioned judges,

604
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 3: but it it's even for members of Congress. Yeah, where

605
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 3: they get these elections where they're not contested, there's no opponents,

606
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,239
Speaker 3: and so that's I think a big problem. And that

607
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 3: goes back to the jerrymandering I mentioned. Or people think, well,

608
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 3: why bother running because there's no chance of winning. We

609
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 3: haven't touched campaign finance issues, and you know, how do

610
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 3: you raise the money to run a successful campaign, the

611
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 3: media issues. So there's a lot of layers to the

612
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 3: problem of seeing only one candidate on the ballot.

613
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 1: So I love that you brought up jerrymandering because I

614
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 1: think it's one of those things. Maybe people have heard

615
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: about it, but they don't necessarily know exactly what it is.

616
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: So would you mind walking us through what jerrymandering is.

617
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 3: So jerrymandering is the practice of the state legislature, so

618
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 3: the state level government drawing maps to ensure a particular outcome.

619
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 3: Jerrymandering has existed since our founding. The founding fathers when

620
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 3: they were drawing the maps for Virginia, they drew gerrymandered

621
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 3: map to try to ensure some people would be in

622
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 3: favorable districts or not. But the problem is that these days,

623
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 3: with technology, with computer algorithms, with how much we know

624
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 3: about voters and voter behavior, you can draw a gerrymander

625
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 3: with such preciseness that you can pretty much guarantee who's

626
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 3: going to win various districts. And so one way to

627
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 3: think about how to do it is what we call

628
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 3: packing and cracking. So let's say you have a group

629
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 3: of voters that all have the same demographics or maybe

630
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: have the same political affiliation. Well, if you can draw

631
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 3: a map where you put as many of them as

632
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 3: possible into one district, then they can win that district

633
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 3: with say eighty percent or ninety percent and have no

634
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 3: influence in the rest of the state or the rest

635
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 3: of the area. So why should you care? Because it

636
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 3: skews representation. It means that the people who we send

637
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 3: either to the state houses when it's a state map

638
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 3: for state legislature or Congress, are not actually representative of

639
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 3: the people and how they vote, because the maps often

640
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 3: dictate the outcomes, not the people.

641
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 2: When we do have an election, we tend to hear

642
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 2: a lot about voter fraud, for better or worse, and

643
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: by that I mean for worse. But what is the

644
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 2: actual evidence regarding voter fraud in American elections? What can

645
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 2: you tell us about that?

646
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 3: So I think we need to make sure to distinguish

647
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 3: between voter fraud and election fraud. So, voter fraud is

648
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 3: when a voter does something fraudulent, showing up to the

649
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 3: polls and try to vote twice, showing up to the

650
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 3: polls and pretending there's someone there not filling out multiple

651
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 3: absentee ballots illegally. That simply doesn't happen to any measurable degree.

652
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 3: You're always going to hear an anecdote here and an

653
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 3: anecdote there. Often they're embellished, you know, it's Oh, my

654
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 3: mother's sisters, friends, uncles, brothers, cousin said that this happened,

655
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 3: And so I often just question the actual evidence of it.

656
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 3: Contrast that with election fraud, which is fraud on the

657
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 3: system itself. And this also happens very very rarely, but

658
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 3: a tad bit more than pure voter fraud. And yet

659
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 3: we have so many mechanisms within the process, within the

660
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 3: auditing process to find it. Now, it's hard to disprove

661
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 3: a negative. Right, So when my kids were younger, and

662
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 3: they might say, as I'm tucking him into bed, Daddy,

663
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 3: there's a monster under the bed. And no matter how

664
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 3: many times I looked for the monster and told them

665
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 3: there's no monster, how do you get them to believe me? Right? Yeah,

666
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 3: and that's sort of what this mantra of voter fraud is. Right.

667
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 3: No matter how many times the experts who are looking

668
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 3: at this and understand how the process works, understand all

669
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 3: of the auditing that happens after election day, they mutually

670
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 3: it's not over on election day. There's lots of processes

671
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 3: that happen in the weeks after. No matter how many

672
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 3: times you say it, though, how do you prove a

673
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 3: negative so they're not monsters under the bed. There's also

674
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 3: no massive voter fraud.

675
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: I love that answer. Let's trust the adults in the room, right, Okay,

676
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: So for people who are concerned, how can we assuage

677
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: those concerns and sort of balance it with like ensuring

678
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: that we do have broad access to voting rights that

679
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: we can get to that one hundred percent that we

680
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: talked about earlier.

681
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 3: I mean, I think getting accurate information from prospective sources

682
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 3: is really important. So don't believe what you're seeing on

683
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 3: your social media feed if it's not from an official source.

684
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 3: I think we need to invest in local media. Local

685
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 3: media can save democracy if they continue to be independent.

686
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 3: And I have the privilege of speaking with a lot

687
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 3: of reporters just because people want to ask me about

688
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 3: voting rights issues. And I've never found a reporter who

689
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 3: is trying to skew the information or is not focused

690
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 3: on telling the truth. So focus on the respected sources

691
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 3: of information and be careful any time you spread something.

692
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 3: If something seems fantastical, maybe pause before we hit that

693
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 3: share button and verify the information. So we can each

694
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 3: do a lot to make sure that these lies don't

695
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 3: get spread and then continue to calm out when they're lies.

696
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 3: We need people from both sides to come together to

697
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 3: uphold the sanctity of and trust in our elections.

698
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: On that note, too, are there reforms to voting rights

699
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 2: and access that you believe would strengthen American democracy? Are

700
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 2: there things that can be put in place to make

701
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 2: sure everyone feels great about like this is how we vote,

702
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 2: This is correct, and you know we did it right?

703
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,720
Speaker 3: Well? Do I have a book for you or several

704
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 3: books for you? We could spend a whole hour talking

705
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 3: about the ways I think we should improve our election system.

706
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 3: But you know, one thing I'll say is that we

707
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 3: can look at the states that do this well. There

708
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 3: are states who are much better in respect to voter access,

709
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 3: with respect to trust in elections, and no surprise, with

710
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 3: respect to turnout. So look at Minnesota, which typically has

711
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 3: turnout just under eighty percent. You know, we're still not

712
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 3: getting to that ninety ninety five percent turnout, but Minnesota

713
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 3: is doing pretty good compared to a lot of other states.

714
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 3: And why well, they have a lot of policies that

715
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 3: make it easy to participate, same day voter registration, easy

716
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 3: absentee bouting access. They also have a culture of civic participation.

717
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 3: Colorado is another example of a state that generally is

718
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 3: doing this well and is at the top of the

719
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 3: list on measures of democracy. And so I think that

720
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 3: it's really worthwhile to look at the places that we know.

721
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 3: You know, again, we're not going to get to compulsory voting,

722
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 3: but we do have a model for some states that

723
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 3: are doing this well, and we can copy those states

724
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 3: in what they're doing and then build upon them.

725
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: I am actually shocked we have gotten through this entire

726
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 2: interview and not once has the word sticker been said,

727
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 2: because I love a sticker. So I am somebody who

728
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 2: every single election, after I vote, I go outside and

729
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 2: I take a selfie with my sticker so that everyone

730
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 2: can see I voted today. Somebody once commented, you look

731
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,720
Speaker 2: so happy about this, and I was like, I truly

732
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 2: am thrilled. But one thing that I think some people

733
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,760
Speaker 2: have learned the hard way when it comes to pictures

734
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 2: and voting. In some states, you cannot take a picture

735
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 2: of yourself voting. What is the reason for that? And

736
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 2: also do you like to take a picture and a

737
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 2: little selfie with your sticker.

738
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 3: As well, so no state will deny your vote if

739
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 3: you take a selfie. No, you could be subject to

740
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 3: criminal charges otherwise, but they're not going to take away

741
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 3: your vote. So they call them ballot selfies. You could

742
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 3: take your ballot selfie and then vote and then risk

743
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 3: whatever criminal sanctions they might try to bring against you,

744
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 3: but at least your vote be valid. So some states

745
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 3: do ban bout selfies, and the idea is that it's

746
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 3: trying to prevent vote buying. So we do have a

747
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 3: history of vote buying in this country in some jurisdictions,

748
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 3: and these days, if I'm going to buy someone's vote,

749
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 3: I want to make sure that they're voting for who

750
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,439
Speaker 3: I want them to vote for, And so I might

751
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 3: tell them to take a picture of their bout with

752
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 3: their cell phone and then either show it to me

753
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 3: or put it up on social media, and then I

754
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 3: can't be linked with it, right because now it's just

755
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,399
Speaker 3: out to the world and I can see that, oh,

756
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 3: it's a picture of you with your bout. Other states, though,

757
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 3: see this as a First Amendment right of expression of

758
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,959
Speaker 3: showing that you are excited about your vote and trying

759
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 3: to encourage other people to vote for the candidates that

760
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 3: you support, and courts have gone in each direction. So

761
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 3: there's a court in New York that upheld the ballot

762
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 3: selfie ban and said there's concerns of vote buying. But

763
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 3: a court in New Hampshire struck down the ban on

764
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 3: ballot selfies under the First Amendment and said this was

765
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 3: a rite of free spece, each right of expression. For me,

766
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 3: what we always do is I always make sure to

767
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 3: take a picture of the kids outside the vote here

768
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 3: sign right outside the polling place, so I always get that.

769
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 3: Plus I always get the sticker. Occasionally I'll take a

770
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 3: picture of the ballot itself just for my own fun,

771
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 3: especially if I've written in my daughter. But Kentucky law

772
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 3: does not prohibit ballot selfie, so I'm in good footing there.

773
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 2: Okay, good. I mean Australia seems to have it right

774
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 2: with the voting sausages, so I think we've got to

775
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 2: upgrade from stickers to sausages or both. I mean both

776
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 2: marks too.

777
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:33,959
Speaker 3: So I wrote a column a number of years ago

778
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 3: for a newspaper in which I mentioned this, But I said,

779
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 3: what's more American than baseball and voting? Well, apple pie?

780
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,919
Speaker 3: So I called for democracy apple pies, which makes sense

781
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 3: right around just before Thanksgiving, and you know Americans like

782
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 3: their sugar, so I thought it was.

783
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 1: A good could make the sticker some food. I guarantee

784
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:53,240
Speaker 1: you we'd see.

785
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 3: A race or maybe one of those scratch and sniff stickers.

786
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 3: We should do.

787
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: That be good too.

788
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

789
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 2: Well they had here in New York this past selection,

790
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: they had special Halloween stickers that you got if you

791
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 2: went and voted early on Halloween, so like they really

792
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 2: kept you on your toes as far as like which

793
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 2: sticker you were going to get which day. So you know,

794
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 2: I'm all for the sticker. I'm not trying to be greedy,

795
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 2: but I do like the pie idea.

796
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: Make it fun, make it fun.

797
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 2: Yeah.

798
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 1: And then the last thing that I want to leave

799
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: us with, I love for us all to actually share

800
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 1: our favorite thing that came into our community through voting.

801
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: And so my wife and are big proponents of composting

802
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: because essentially, if you put organic materials into your trash

803
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: and it goes into a landfill, it releases a lot

804
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: of methane into the environment and it's really not great.

805
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: But they're composting. You can take your organic compounds and

806
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: you can turn them into mulch and soil and then

807
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 1: put that back into local community gardens to grow food

808
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: with and you're not wasting it and in the way

809
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: you would buy just throwing it in the trash. And

810
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: so we love composting, but it's been very difficult over

811
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: the years to compost. But we voted legislators into place

812
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: that have passed laws that make composting compulsory for the

813
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: entire city. It started in Queens and Brooklyn out spreading

814
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: all over New York City. So your building is required

815
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,919
Speaker 1: to provide you with a compost band that gets picked

816
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: up by the city Cititation department. So that's one way

817
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: I've seen voting change things for the better. But I'd

818
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: love to open it up to both of you. There's

819
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: a couple.

820
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 3: Different directions I could go with this question, because I

821
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 3: do think that there are lots of ways that voting

822
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 3: can change local democracy. But I think maybe I'll just

823
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 3: tell a story about one of my favorite moments of

824
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 3: voting itself, which was when I was at the polls

825
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 3: and learned that the person in front of me was

826
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 3: a first time voter, and then words spread down the

827
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 3: line that it was a first time voter, and then

828
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 3: when she checked in to vote, the entire polling place

829
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 3: like the election, the poll workers, the election officials all

830
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 3: kind of got everyone in the polling place to give

831
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 3: her a round of applause, and you could see that

832
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 3: she was understanding the impact of what she was doing. That. Yeah, well,

833
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 3: her one vote may or may not make a difference

834
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 3: in who actually gets elected, but she was part of something,

835
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 3: she was part of a community. I could see sort

836
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 3: of the way it affected her, and it affected me

837
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,439
Speaker 3: as well as someone who's voted for you know, every

838
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 3: election for many, many years. So that's not a policy

839
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 3: that's changed. And we could talk about other things, but

840
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 3: I just think the act of voting itself can be

841
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 3: so powerful for people, and it was really cool to

842
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 3: see that in person.

843
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 2: I'm not topping that. I mean, that's wonderful. I think

844
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 2: we should all clap for first time voters because I

845
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 2: think that's amazing.

846
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,720
Speaker 1: We really should. Yeah, and for first time registers. Yeah, yeah,

847
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: that too. Lovely Well, Josh, thank you so much for

848
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: joining us today and anything you want to say where

849
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:26,919
Speaker 1: people can find your work about your new book coming

850
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: out of the books you've already written, please please tell them.

851
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 2: Now.

852
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I have a website, Joshuaadouglas dot com. It's

853
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 3: got all my stuff. You can find my podcast and

854
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 3: all the podcast places Democracy Optimist. And my latest book

855
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 3: is called The Court Versus the Voters. That's a fun

856
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 3: beach read, I'm told, and it's available, you know, in

857
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 3: all the places amazing.

858
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: And be sure to check out vote dot org to

859
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,240
Speaker 1: be sure that you're registered and to check your registration

860
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: status if you are wonderful.

861
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, josh Yeah, thanks for having me.

862
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 2: Okay, Matt, So now the real question is would you

863
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 2: rather get a sausage or a sticker on your way

864
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 2: out of the.

865
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,720
Speaker 1: Polls ethereum team apple pie. But here's the thing about

866
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: places that don't serve food. That serve food, don't serve food.

867
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: If your thing is voting, stick to voting. If your

868
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: thing is ikey of making furniture, don't sell meatballs. They

869
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: may contain traces of horse.

870
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: Oh boy, oh boy. Or you're going to need a

871
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 2: law professor on your side after you're.

872
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 3: Making those claims.

873
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 2: I probably am. You already know. My answer is sticker.

874
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 2: I'm a big sticker girl.

875
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 1: You could tell big sticker energy.

876
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: But for our next episode, We're going the opposite of sticky,

877
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 2: and we are going nice and smooth.

878
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: I see what you did there.

879
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 3: I like that.

880
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 2: We're going to be speaking with Sean Wynn. He is

881
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 2: a pensoil lubricant technical specialist at Shell Lubricant and he's

882
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 2: going to tell us everything we need to know and

883
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 2: so much more about getting your oil changed.

884
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: And if you listen to our previous episode on car

885
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: maintenance and think that you know everything that there is

886
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: to know, think again. We go deep on the oil

887
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: an unearthed knowledge that only a technical specialist would know.

888
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he knows all of it, and he's so

889
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 2: excited about it. I can't wait to learn more until

890
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 2: next time. Good luck being a grown up.

891
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: This is the production of Ruby Studio from My Heartmedia.

892
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Lea Pomery and Matt Stillo.

893
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 2: This episode was edited and engineered by Sierra Spreen and

894
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 1: We want to think our teammates at Ruby Studio, including

895
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: Sarah you, Ethan Fixel, Ragious, Wan krasnov Lydia, Kim Amber Smith, Harper, Wayne,

896
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: Deborah Garrett, and Andy Kelly.