Speaker 1: You spoke to Lakers manager, it's going to be like
Speaker 1: one of you know, an amazing barber trying to bring
Speaker 1: a hairline back, you know, to try to keep this
Speaker 1: team afloat, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Welcome into what's Vernon. I got Matt, I got Buggie.
Speaker 3: Guys.
Speaker 4: I'm at an undisclosed bunker location. Don't want to reveal
Speaker 4: too much here. I was at the Sports and He's
Speaker 4: last night presenting on behalf of Showtime.
Speaker 2: It was a lot of fun. It was fun to
Speaker 2: see our name up there in lights.
Speaker 4: A bunch of awards the network was nominated for, so
Speaker 4: congratulations to all of us.
Speaker 2: Really very nice. We got to talk about the Western
Speaker 2: Conference Finals.
Speaker 4: I want to get right into it because it was
Speaker 4: just so crazy how things ended a sweep which no
Speaker 4: one expected. Lebron played one of those first halfs where
Speaker 4: you think, oh my god, this is like the game
Speaker 4: of Boston all those years ago, where he's just going
Speaker 4: to insert his will. Thirty one points in the first half,
Speaker 4: Lakers at fifteen at halftime, but look, couldn't close. Had
Speaker 4: two chances to tie it at the end of the game.
Speaker 4: Couldn't do with Lebron obviously, just looking gas Nicola Jokic
Speaker 4: just a dominant performance again a record eighth triple level
Speaker 4: of these playoffs. And the real kicker, though, was afterward
Speaker 4: Lebron James saying, quote, he has a lot to think
Speaker 4: about this off season, and reports coming in from TNT
Speaker 4: ESPN right afterward that he is considering retirement. So, Matt,
Speaker 4: what is your reaction to all of that. Is it
Speaker 4: exhaustion in the moment, is it a leverage play or
Speaker 4: do you think that he's seriously considering that we have
Speaker 4: seen him played this last game.
Speaker 1: I think it could be a little bit of everything.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, Boogie and I can speak
Speaker 1: to you know, being in the moment post game and
Speaker 1: just so many things running through your head and and
Speaker 1: you know, just kind of being open and vulnerable. I
Speaker 1: think Lebron realizes that he is getting older, and I
Speaker 1: think for the first time, you know, we got a
Speaker 1: chance to see that as as spectators and as fans
Speaker 1: of his, and it probably is a real consideration. But
Speaker 1: I highly doubt that we've seen the last of Lebron
Speaker 1: James this season. You know, although he said in this
Speaker 1: PREPSCOTF he doesn't play to make the conference Finals. He's
Speaker 1: been to plenty of those. He plays to win championships,
Speaker 1: and we totally get that in respect that, but when
Speaker 1: you put the season in perspective, this team started off
Speaker 1: two and ten with a thirteen seed at one point,
Speaker 1: and they made it to the Western Finals. And at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, Denver was just a better
Speaker 1: team played and simple. I mean, Bron's numbers were still amazing.
Speaker 1: Ads numbers in these Western Finals were amazing. They just
Speaker 1: didn't have enough. So, you know, I think we saw,
Speaker 1: you know, that amazing first half, and you know, my
Speaker 1: question at halftime was does he have enough in the
Speaker 1: tank to carry this team over the finish line? And
Speaker 1: I was telling my group here, I was like, if
Speaker 1: he doesn't get over forty, they're going to lose. And
Speaker 1: he got right to forty and they lost by two.
Speaker 1: And you saw it down the stretch range. You know,
Speaker 1: in the closing they had two opportunities. He dribbled the
Speaker 1: ball for a long time, then made a pass and
Speaker 1: nothing happened. And then he tried to get downhill. Great
Speaker 1: defense by Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon to kind of
Speaker 1: deflect the shot. He just didn't have enough in the tank.
Speaker 1: To get them over the over the hump, and we're
Speaker 1: so accustomed to him having plenty of the tank and
Speaker 1: running through those guys and making some kind of heroic,
Speaker 1: amazing shot. So the one thing I will say is
Speaker 1: Lebron is always kind of conscious. He's writing his ending now,
Speaker 1: as have most the greats have done. And you know,
Speaker 1: for him to have a forty ten to nine in
Speaker 1: a closeout game, putting his team on his back was incredible.
Speaker 1: But to answer your original question, I don't see this
Speaker 1: being the end of Lebron, but he's definitely understanding his
Speaker 1: body and where he's at right now. And to keep
Speaker 1: it real, you can't gracefully age in sports anymore because
Speaker 1: there's too many critics. There's too much media, especially someone
Speaker 1: who's been amazing for twenty I mean, he's been amazing
Speaker 1: before he got the NBA, but someone's been made in
Speaker 1: so long. There's so many critics and haters. You can't
Speaker 1: gracefully age in this game. So I think a lot
Speaker 1: of things probably hit him at the moment when he
Speaker 1: was at the podium, that he was just being open
Speaker 1: and vulnerable. But I don't think we've seen the last
Speaker 1: of him in an NBA uniform.
Speaker 3: I agree with that. I don't see this being the end.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: You know, he has those of you know, having an
Speaker 3: opportunity to play on the same team as the son,
Speaker 3: which is a realistic thing. That's something that is rarely
Speaker 3: seen in sports. Obviously, it'd be an iconic moment for
Speaker 3: the NBA, for his for his legend, for his family's legend.
Speaker 3: So those are real things that I think, you know,
Speaker 3: will eventually happen. So I agree with that. It's definitely
Speaker 3: coming from a place of you know, exhaustion and being tired.
Speaker 3: This might be the first year with Lebron really feels
Speaker 3: that his age is kicking in. He's not the youthful,
Speaker 3: youthful Lebron ever used to I mean, and I mean
Speaker 3: our expectations of him since he stepped in. It's just
Speaker 3: this machine that never stopped working, and you know those
Speaker 3: days are coming to an end of the the ending
Speaker 3: is near. But to say last night was the last game,
Speaker 3: I just don't see that at the end the case.
Speaker 3: I think we get a few more years of Lebron,
Speaker 3: but this is definitely the beginning of the end.
Speaker 2: This is just my opinion. It's not based on any conversation.
Speaker 2: I still have to say he's got a ninety nine
Speaker 2: percent chance of coming back.
Speaker 4: I mean, come on, he's wanted to play with Bronnie
Speaker 4: for like six or seven years out he's been talking
Speaker 4: about this. And how many guys have you seen. I mean,
Speaker 4: I have stood next to guys after they finished playoff runs,
Speaker 4: either victorious or not, who tell me they're retiring straight out,
Speaker 4: not I'm thinking about it, but just say I'm going
Speaker 4: to retire, this is it, and then we see them
Speaker 4: back in camp the next year. I feel like you've
Speaker 4: just got to be so wrung out and exhausted at
Speaker 4: the end of one of these and I'm sure he
Speaker 4: was embarrassed about the way that they went out, and
Speaker 4: you just sort of think about climbing up that hill again.
Speaker 4: You know, he was playing on a bad foot there.
Speaker 4: There's been talk about off season surgery. Do you guys
Speaker 4: think there's a chance that you can have off season
Speaker 4: surgery at any time? You can get specialist consultations and
Speaker 4: maybe have to surgery that keeps you out the first
Speaker 4: few months of the season. Now, do you see that
Speaker 4: as possibly something.
Speaker 2: That can happen.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it'll be surgery. But I just
Speaker 1: think for his case, the eighty two plus the playoffs
Speaker 1: is too much at this point, at twenty years and
Speaker 1: at thirty eight. And I want to read some numbers
Speaker 1: from this guy I met on Instagram was really dope
Speaker 1: his handle his numbers, stats and facts, and he did
Speaker 1: a breakdown at current superstars at the age of thirty
Speaker 1: eight and what they did in their respective things. So obviously,
Speaker 1: Lebron lost in the Western Finals. Average nearly twenty eight
Speaker 1: eight and seven on fifty shooting at the age of
Speaker 1: thirty eight. Kareem lost in the Western Conference finals. Averaged
Speaker 1: thirty four to six and three and a half assists
Speaker 1: on fifty six percent shooting. MJ didn't make the playoffs,
Speaker 1: but he averaged nearly twenty three point six rebounds and
Speaker 1: five assists. Keem Elijuan didn't make the playoffs. Average twelve
Speaker 1: and seven. Shaquille O'Neal lost in the Western Eastern Conference
Speaker 1: semi averaged nine point point five rebounds. Tim Duncan lost
Speaker 1: in the first round. Average fourteen to nine. Kobe's retired,
Speaker 1: Larry Bird's retired, Madgie Johnson's retired, So that just kind
Speaker 1: of puts some things in perspective of what he's doing
Speaker 1: at this level, with this many miles at this age,
Speaker 1: and as I mentioned in my first bit, you know,
Speaker 1: I could see Lebron playing another two years. But will
Speaker 1: the world allow him to only average eighteen to twenty
Speaker 1: points or will they shit on him the entire time?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Because, like DeMarcus says, this
Speaker 1: is the beginning of the end. With all due respect
Speaker 1: to his greatness, he just can't do it and carry
Speaker 1: franchises and organizations anymore. So can he gracefully kind of
Speaker 1: get a last couple of years in. I'm sure he's
Speaker 1: gonna want to, you know, obviously he's such a competitor.
Speaker 1: He's gonna want to play for a ring. But can
Speaker 1: the world allow him to kind of be a eighteen
Speaker 1: to twenty point a game night guy just to play
Speaker 1: with his son or is it just going to be
Speaker 1: a constant media frenzy of he's ruining his this and
Speaker 1: he's ruining that. Because I feel like Lebron can do
Speaker 1: no harm to his legacy at this point, he can
Speaker 1: only add to it. I think his legacy is cemented
Speaker 1: as wherever you want to put him a top three
Speaker 1: greatest players of all time. So I saw some bullshit
Speaker 1: floating around yesterday. Can this damage? Can of sweet damage?
Speaker 1: Is not at all. Lebron has cemented that he can
Speaker 1: only help his legacy from here. But my question is
Speaker 1: will the outside world allow him to kind of slowly
Speaker 1: but surely fade away.
Speaker 4: Well, Matt, don't you think that It's a little bit
Speaker 4: the way Kobe toward the end of his career there
Speaker 4: was criticism of him or what's he doing to the Lakers,
Speaker 4: but that had a lot to do with how the
Speaker 4: Lakers were doing right. The Lakers were not doing well
Speaker 4: in the standings at that point. Lebron James, if he
Speaker 4: has a partner in Anthony Davis who was able to
Speaker 4: lead the team instead of him, If Ad is able
Speaker 4: to take another step in his growth, and all Lebron
Speaker 4: has to do is be that content complimentary player, I
Speaker 4: think ray he takes less crap from the public if
Speaker 4: he's in that scenario.
Speaker 3: Maybe, I think so. Absolutely, I think actually, I think
Speaker 3: that's the best plan, or that should be the Lakers
Speaker 3: plan in general, finding a way to move a Lebron
Speaker 3: to the second option, move AD to the third, and
Speaker 3: find in the first option. I mean, you have guys
Speaker 3: like Kyrie Irving floating around. We know Dame isn't too
Speaker 3: happy in Portland. So I mean the whole Bradley Bill situation.
Speaker 3: So I believe it's it's options to keep this thing afloat. Obviously,
Speaker 3: the Lakers front office has to become, you know, really
Speaker 3: creative and making those things happen. But I mean to
Speaker 3: say it's the beginning of the end. I do believe
Speaker 3: that is the case. But it's still a lot of
Speaker 3: life left in this limit. So I say the Lakers
Speaker 3: squeeze in Lembit, find of, you know, a third start
Speaker 3: to fit in with Anthony Davis and Lebron and one
Speaker 3: that can lead the charge with those guys, and I
Speaker 3: think they're right back in contention for the next season.
Speaker 3: I mean, it sounds bad, but that's not I don't
Speaker 3: want to say Lebron is a third option, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. So let's say one. Let's say A
Speaker 3: one B two B.
Speaker 1: So well, I think I think boogie. I mean, to
Speaker 1: your point, I think A D would have to be
Speaker 1: the two, when Bron would be the three that can
Speaker 1: pick and choose when he wants to be one. Not
Speaker 1: he has to consistently be one, and I think you
Speaker 1: know you you spoke to Lakers management, it's going to
Speaker 1: be like one of you know, an amazing barber trying
Speaker 1: to bring a hairline back, you know, to try to
Speaker 1: keep this team afloat, you know what I mean? I mean,
Speaker 1: I think you know, can this team find wiggle room
Speaker 1: to create cap space to get one of the stars
Speaker 1: you just mentioned they can? But then will they be
Speaker 1: a top heavy team like Phoenix was with absolutely no depth,
Speaker 1: and we know you know that doesn't that doesn't bode
Speaker 1: well against all around solid teams such as Denver. So, uh,
Speaker 1: you know that that's a huge question, you know what
Speaker 1: the offseason, who can come in and save because I
Speaker 1: feel like this team, with this core moving forward, needs
Speaker 1: one more star and like Boogie's had a star, they
Speaker 1: can lead, And the only way to do that is
Speaker 1: really to almost get rid of everyone. You know, I
Speaker 1: think you know the two guys that I would want
Speaker 1: to keep on the roster at everyone with all due
Speaker 1: respect or obviously Austin Reeves but his price tag might
Speaker 1: get too high, and then Hachi Mora, who both played
Speaker 1: really well. Everyone else I'd be willing to part ways
Speaker 1: with absolutely everyone else I'd be willing to part ways with.
Speaker 1: But you know, you look at Austin Reeves, he averaging
Speaker 1: only seventeen points in the playoffs, and he's on record
Speaker 1: earlier in the season saying he's going to follow the
Speaker 1: money and he someone's going to give him somewhere between
Speaker 1: sixteen and eighty million, and I doubt it will be.
Speaker 1: It won't be the Lakers, you know what I mean. So,
Speaker 1: how do you create space to get another star without
Speaker 1: being a completely top heavy team? Is going to be
Speaker 1: the Lakers off season mission because as much as we
Speaker 1: love Ad, he's shown that, either through injury or just
Speaker 1: inconsistent play, he just hasn't been a one yet. He
Speaker 1: has one talent, one talent through the roof on both
Speaker 1: ends of the floor, but he hasn't shown for entire
Speaker 1: season that he can y'all jump on my back, Because
Speaker 1: I think that's what Bron's been waiting for the entire time,
Speaker 1: is being able to jump on eighties back and being
Speaker 1: able to pick and choose his spots, and unfortunately that
Speaker 1: hasn't happen yet. So if that's the growth in the
Speaker 1: summer that they get, or if it's a way to
Speaker 1: manage this roster. Tip I possibly you have to get
Speaker 1: one star. To me, that's the only way this Laker
Speaker 1: team is gonna sniff the playoffs.
Speaker 4: Moving forward, well, Boogie, you mentioned Kyrie. He was court
Speaker 4: sided again last night. I mean, it's pretty amazing if
Speaker 4: you look at the number of games played though Kyrie,
Speaker 4: Anthony Davis, and Lebron in the last three seasons.
Speaker 2: None of them have topped sixty five games.
Speaker 4: So, in addition to having what would be a very
Speaker 4: top heavy team at as you say, it would be
Speaker 4: a team that might not even have those three stars
Speaker 4: all the time. Would you go after Kyrie or is
Speaker 4: there someone else there that you would go parder after.
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously Kyrie is a top talent and you
Speaker 3: would be foolish not to go after him, But just
Speaker 3: knowing the history between him and Lebron and what they've
Speaker 3: done there together, I mean, like I said, it would
Speaker 3: just be foolish not to even consider that. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: think the perfect option would be a Damian Lily, but
Speaker 3: that would be just as difficult to make happen for
Speaker 3: the Lakers. And you know, the cap situation, the roster situation,
Speaker 3: But it has to be in my opinion, it has
Speaker 3: to be a guy of bad nature, one that can
Speaker 3: take over a game, one can lead the charge, like
Speaker 3: I said, beat that number one option consistently and uh
Speaker 3: and those two guys and Lebron and Adi can compliment
Speaker 3: in any way, shape or form, So not.
Speaker 1: To cut you off a do you also hear Trey
Speaker 1: Young's name thrown in the mix. I saw this morning
Speaker 1: that Trey Young's name, that the Lakers are are interested
Speaker 1: in him.
Speaker 2: Frey Young also courtside last night that.
Speaker 1: Be showing up to say, Hey, I want to be here.
Speaker 1: I mean the book you can tell you. I can
Speaker 1: tell you there's nothing in the world like being a
Speaker 1: Laker playing out. There's nothing in the world like being
Speaker 1: a Laker. So a lot of these guys want to
Speaker 1: get a taste to me, for I read in particular,
Speaker 1: what better way to say I'm really him to be
Speaker 1: able to come and and be that piece for the
Speaker 1: Lakers to help them get over the hump. And to me,
Speaker 1: everyone would say, fuck all the other stuff he did.
Speaker 1: Fuck with the trouble you caused in Cleveland, Fuck the
Speaker 1: trouble you caused in Boston, Fuck the train wreck you
Speaker 1: caused in Brooklyn. If you come to the Lakers and
Speaker 1: help this this core get over the hump. All that
Speaker 1: stuff is forgotten and he's back on top of the
Speaker 1: world where he should be. So again, are they going
Speaker 1: to be able to get a superstar without completely dismantling
Speaker 1: their depth and being a very top heavy like one
Speaker 1: of those guys in the gym that never lifts his
Speaker 1: legs and he's just all up here with it, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Are they gonna be one of
Speaker 1: those guys? Or you know, cans are a way to maneuver,
Speaker 1: So it's gonna be interesting.
Speaker 2: I love it. I mean this feels like, you know,
Speaker 2: there's like a hot girl.
Speaker 4: And all the boys in the neighborhood show up at
Speaker 4: her mom's house and be on the porch to see
Speaker 4: if she'll come out, Like I'm Trey Young, Kyrie, They're
Speaker 4: all they're all there on the porch.
Speaker 1: See. I wouldn't be warning Rachel. I wouldn't be warning
Speaker 1: about the hot girl. I'd be going around the back
Speaker 1: trying to holt the mom because if she's hot, her
Speaker 1: mom's probably hot.
Speaker 4: So I don't know if that becomes Darrenham and this analogy.
Speaker 4: So we're just gonna stop there.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about the Nuggets as well. We're
Speaker 2: talking a lot about the Lakers first, because they're done
Speaker 2: after today. We're not going to talk about them anymore,
Speaker 2: but talk about the Nuggets for the next few weeks.
Speaker 5: But we got to just give them props Denver, the
Speaker 5: way they showed out in this series, and Matt, you
Speaker 5: went into it saying you went into this whole mostseason
Speaker 5: saying you thought that the Nuggets and Nicola Jokich had
Speaker 5: a lot to prove.
Speaker 2: They had to show you. What did they show you?
Speaker 2: What did you learn about them in this conference box?
Speaker 1: So they're the best team in basketball, and I think
Speaker 1: that they've shown a lot of people that. And I
Speaker 1: think they've been probably the one most disrespectful teams in
Speaker 1: the game. And at times, not that I've disrespected I
Speaker 1: just like I said, I needed to see it. And
Speaker 1: I think they've been able to show the world not
Speaker 1: only that do they have two stars, but they have
Speaker 1: a great coach and Mike Malone, who I think was
Speaker 1: one of Boodie's favorite coaches, and then their role players.
Speaker 1: They have depth at role player from Bruce Brown to
Speaker 1: Porter Junior to Aaron Goodwin to Colwell Pope. Guys come
Speaker 1: in and play their role to a te So I
Speaker 1: gave them, you know, like, I didn't count them out.
Speaker 1: I just said I needed to see it. And they've
Speaker 1: shown me everything that and more. That Jokic is one
Speaker 1: of the best players in the world and will be
Speaker 1: one of the greatest players of all time. And then
Speaker 1: Jamal Murray is a motherfucking killer. And in the Western
Speaker 1: Conference that's loaded. The Western Conference is loaded with Steph
Speaker 1: dang Ja book. Where do you put Where do you
Speaker 1: put Jamal Murray in that mix? Because he's done it
Speaker 1: not only in the regular season now, but now he's
Speaker 1: doing it in the postseason and it has really helped
Speaker 1: lead his team. It's not like this is just a
Speaker 1: Yoki show. This is a Jamal Murray show too. He
Speaker 1: average over thirty points in in these conference finals. So
Speaker 1: where does Jamal Murray rank in the hierarchy of guards
Speaker 1: in the Western Conference? So h, this team is for real.
Speaker 1: This team has depth, this team has size, and I
Speaker 1: see them winning their first championship this year no matter
Speaker 1: who they play.
Speaker 3: I agree, you know, but I feel like I feel
Speaker 3: like the media has kind of disrespected this team a
Speaker 3: bit this year and I think it's more so from
Speaker 3: a standpoint as we have not seen it before. They've
Speaker 3: come out this entire playoffs and they've they've shut us
Speaker 3: all up. They've showed that they're the best team in
Speaker 3: the league right now. They have the best player in
Speaker 3: the league right now, nicolea Jokic, a great Robin or
Speaker 3: I mean, you can really say Batman and Batman but
Speaker 3: in Jamal Murray. But this this team has proved you know,
Speaker 3: their work, they prove that they're serious, and I mean,
Speaker 3: the way things are going right now, we may see
Speaker 3: this team dominate for a few years to come. So
Speaker 3: we got to see all the story in folds.
Speaker 1: My question too, to both you guys, when was the
Speaker 1: last time you've seen a pair be able to be
Speaker 1: greater the same time without stepping on each other's toes.
Speaker 1: These guys are both great in their lanes at the
Speaker 1: same time, which you always want from your superstar. And
Speaker 1: there's no griefe, there's no beef, there's no stepping on toes,
Speaker 1: there's no I want to stat I want to light,
Speaker 1: you want the light like these dudes are playing their
Speaker 1: best basketball together and it's a betterment for the team
Speaker 1: and It's rare because you can look back at great
Speaker 1: duels like Shaq and Kobe, and we know there was
Speaker 1: a rift there. We found out that the Scottie Pippen
Speaker 1: doesn't like Mike No. You know, there's there's those rifts
Speaker 1: between great duos, and these guys are vote playing their
Speaker 1: best basketball together and it's for the betterment of the
Speaker 1: team and there's no egos involved, which is special.
Speaker 3: I think that yeah, but I think that also compliments
Speaker 3: the MVP. I had the opportunity to be a team
Speaker 3: I see how the guy cares itself. His demeanor is
Speaker 3: he comes in, he does his job. He's not caught
Speaker 3: up in the you know, the spotlight, the fame, any
Speaker 3: of those things. He's super chilled. His favorite things to
Speaker 3: do with to go chill and on his farm with
Speaker 3: his horses. Like he's not a you know, a big
Speaker 3: time camera guy, none of those things. So when you
Speaker 3: have an MVP with those type of characteristics, I mean
Speaker 3: it's hard to ever have a grudge or any type
Speaker 3: of beef for the teammate. He's strictly about doing this
Speaker 3: job and winning games, and you know the rest of
Speaker 3: the rest of the team followed. So kudos to.
Speaker 4: Him, they've been together for a long time. I think
Speaker 4: that counts. I mean, we see these teams getting made
Speaker 4: and unmade and remade. We're already talking about whether the Lakers'
Speaker 4: next moves and Phoenix reshuffled their whole deck, and these
Speaker 4: two guys have been playing together and you see it
Speaker 4: and it's made a difference.
Speaker 2: And talk about Jamal Murray and where he is in
Speaker 2: the hierarchy. It's funny. I spent a lot of this
Speaker 2: week with the Nuggets and I was asking a lot.
Speaker 4: About Jamal and Michael Malone told the story of how
Speaker 4: the day after Jamal toured his acl and he's in tears.
Speaker 4: He's on the bus the next day and he knows
Speaker 4: he's going to have to have surgery, is going to
Speaker 4: be out for it turned out to be an entire season,
Speaker 4: and he Malone, he said, are you guys going to
Speaker 4: trade me? And he said, I know I'm damaged goods
Speaker 4: And Michael said he just looked at him and he said,
Speaker 4: you're ours.
Speaker 2: We got you.
Speaker 4: Don't worry about it. And I think that that security.
Speaker 4: I mean, you guys can speak on it, but that
Speaker 4: for a player to know that you are at your
Speaker 4: lowest point and acls are tricky, right, you don't know
Speaker 4: how you're going to come back, and to have the
Speaker 4: head of the team have that kind of confidence and
Speaker 4: just sort of lay down his guarantee to you, I
Speaker 4: think it matters.
Speaker 2: I think we see that when they're out on the
Speaker 2: court now.
Speaker 4: And look when you go back and you talk about
Speaker 4: the Lakers and you talk about Phoenix, you talk about
Speaker 4: Damon what he's going to do in Portland, you talk
Speaker 4: about all that.
Speaker 2: Talent in the West. Meant like, you got to know
Speaker 2: that Denver is going to be a dominant team in
Speaker 2: this in this half of the league for the next
Speaker 2: few years. So what are you building for that too?
Speaker 4: And that circles back to the Lebron retirement conversation again.
Speaker 4: I my opinion, just my opinion, Lebron is ninety nine
Speaker 4: percent coming back next season. But you have to think
Speaker 4: about the fact that this team that just flattened you
Speaker 4: for nothing, they are probably.
Speaker 2: Going to be around for a long time. Well, well,
Speaker 2: we'll talk putty about the West going forward.
Speaker 4: I do want to get to the East before we
Speaker 4: get too bogged down because heat Celtics Game four US tonight.
Speaker 4: I don't know when y'all are listening to this out there.
Speaker 4: But I cannot say enough about this Miami Heat team.
Speaker 4: Jimmy Butler, Eric Spolstra has just been phenomenal. And look,
Speaker 4: if the Heat win on Tuesday night, both conference finals
Speaker 4: will be a sweep. That would be the first time
Speaker 4: ever never happened in NBA history. But even if all
Speaker 4: of you people listening out there in the future, even
Speaker 4: if the Celtics extend this a few games, unless they
Speaker 4: can complete the first ever three to zero series deficit comeback,
Speaker 4: I think this is going to be seen as a
Speaker 4: huge failure in Boston, just the way this series unfolded
Speaker 4: and as we see here today Jalen Brown two of
Speaker 4: twenty from three in the series, Tatum five of twenty
Speaker 4: from three in the series. So, boogie, who is responsible
Speaker 4: for what has happened to Boston?
Speaker 3: I think this falls on management with you know, the
Speaker 3: whole Audopa Coachy Dopah fire and then just how everything
Speaker 3: was kind of handled in that situation. And itind of
Speaker 3: reminds me of the situation in Golden State when Steve
Speaker 3: Kerr missed a significant amount of time and they let
Speaker 3: you know, Luke Walton take over. You know, it kind
Speaker 3: of gives you this this false sense of hope, like
Speaker 3: you know, this is and not taking anything away from
Speaker 3: Luke or what he's done as a coach, but obviously
Speaker 3: the tier of coach of Steve Kurta Lucas is a
Speaker 3: drastic difference, and that's just from the proof of the pudding.
Speaker 3: But you know, he kind of went through the motions
Speaker 3: and it seemed like, you know, this coach is perfect
Speaker 3: for any system. He can just do it. And this
Speaker 3: is kind of what I'm seeing in Boston as well
Speaker 3: with coach Missoula. And you know, obviously he took over
Speaker 3: a team that with the championship aspirations and goals, and
Speaker 3: you know, it was only one expectation for this year
Speaker 3: coming up and that's them competing for a championship. So
Speaker 3: once again, it just falls to the tiers of coaching.
Speaker 3: And nothing to take away from Missoula because he's done
Speaker 3: an incredible job this season, but it just shows you
Speaker 3: the difference in Missoula and Udoka. So I think this
Speaker 3: falls on management for the Celtics and how they handled
Speaker 3: that entire situation.
Speaker 1: Obviously, I think players have to play better, But on
Speaker 1: the side of Mossoula has been out coached the entire playoffs,
Speaker 1: from not calling timeouts to untimely challenges, to unable to
Speaker 1: make in game adjustments that that that you crucially need
Speaker 1: come playoff time, and then again to how important E
Speaker 1: May was and how good I May was. And I
Speaker 1: read something this morning, how you know, when some of
Speaker 1: the Celtics players found out that uh he was hired
Speaker 1: in Houston, it kind of it didn't settle with them well,
Speaker 1: because they believed in him and and really liked him
Speaker 1: from from from what it looks like, and their inability
Speaker 1: to get that situation figured out hurt them, you know,
Speaker 1: because this is pretty much the same team with solid editions,
Speaker 1: solid editions uh that went to the finals last year
Speaker 1: and wholeheartedly felt and and and could have been the
Speaker 1: champions last year. So I just think, you know, I
Speaker 1: love a boogie's comparison to to Steve Kerr and Luke Walton.
Speaker 1: How you just feel like some teams are so good
Speaker 1: you could plug anyone in, but that's not the case.
Speaker 1: You know, some of these coaches have built up a
Speaker 1: rapport with the players that these guys love and respect
Speaker 1: and will run through a wall and Joe Mozzoula just
Speaker 1: hasn't had that kind of time and he's just not
Speaker 1: that type of coach. Yet. He'll get there. He's just
Speaker 1: not there yet. But he's been out coached the entire
Speaker 1: playoffs and it's really shining now along with guys not
Speaker 1: playing well. But when you're going up against someone like
Speaker 1: Spoe and I look at this Miami Heat team and
Speaker 1: it reminds me of not the personnel because people are
Speaker 1: gonna flip out, but they remind me of San Antonio
Speaker 1: from a standpoint of you know that they're not gonna
Speaker 1: beat themselves. They're gonna consistently play their style of basketball
Speaker 1: the entire time on offense and defense, and they won't
Speaker 1: beat theirselves. Boston has beat themselves and that's inconsistency and
Speaker 1: to me, that starts at the top with coaching. So,
Speaker 1: like you said, Rachel, whether Boston is able to slide
Speaker 1: a game or two, highly doubt that they're going to
Speaker 1: be able to come back from this deficit. And it
Speaker 1: really just it's a hats off because if we think
Speaker 1: about this on Miami lost their first playing game. It's
Speaker 1: crazy and now now they're looking to reach the finals.
Speaker 1: This is going to be one of the greatest stories
Speaker 1: I'll know. I don't know. I hate to be a
Speaker 1: fortune teller. I don't see them winning it. But the
Speaker 1: fact that this team got to the finals and knocked
Speaker 1: off the number one seed, the number two seed and
Speaker 1: did it easily really speaks to Jimmy Butler's greatness and
Speaker 1: disposed greatness and just the way they have that that
Speaker 1: franchise has, you know, everyone else believing in each other.
Speaker 4: ESPN's Kevin Pelton had a stat the other day saying
Speaker 4: that the Heat were one to one twenty five lawn
Speaker 4: shots to make the finals. Then it made the longest
Speaker 4: long shots in NBA history, So that is just never,
Speaker 4: never happened before, which is crazy. We've obviously seen a
Speaker 4: number eight seed in the play in the finals once before,
Speaker 4: but even that team, that next team was what was
Speaker 4: considered to be more likely a candidate than this Heat team.
Speaker 2: It's crazy.
Speaker 4: I would say this about Missoula. I think he has
Speaker 4: the potential to develop into a very good coach. I
Speaker 4: started my career down in Miami, and that was where
Speaker 4: I got my first job out of college.
Speaker 2: I knew Eric.
Speaker 4: Spulstra when he was a video assistant. Eric Skulstra was
Speaker 4: not always Eric Spulstra, right, he had to grow and
Speaker 4: learn and sort of, you know, get into the job.
Speaker 2: And I wouldn't bury Joe Missouli yet by any standard.
Speaker 4: And I would also point out that the Celtics have
Speaker 4: had three coaches in three years, so if you change again,
Speaker 4: you're going to lose that continuity again. So it's just
Speaker 4: things to consider. I do agree with you, Boogie. I
Speaker 4: don't know all the details of the Udoka situation, so
Speaker 4: I can't sit here and say whether they shouldn't have
Speaker 4: done this or shouldn't have done that. But that to
Speaker 4: me seems like more of the inflection point of did
Speaker 4: you make that decision then, as opposed to you know,
Speaker 4: how did that change your fortune?
Speaker 2: As opposed to whether you keep Missoula Now.
Speaker 4: I do think that Dooka was able to hold players
Speaker 4: a little more accountable than it seems like Misilla is
Speaker 4: able to. And I don't know if that's just because
Speaker 4: Missoula is newer or younger or any of that stuff,
Speaker 4: And we'll see if that changes. But that is the
Speaker 4: biggest thing I have seen with the players not performing,
Speaker 4: is that they don't have someone holding them accountable.
Speaker 2: In the same way I thought you may doing the year.
Speaker 4: Before, And the players are a question only because you've
Speaker 4: got big money decisions coming up. Jalen Brown eligible for
Speaker 4: a contract extension of more than two hundred and eighty
Speaker 4: million dollars this summer, and because Jason Tatum also made
Speaker 4: all MBA, he's guaranteed that same kind of extension the
Speaker 4: following summer. So you're talking about signing these two guys
Speaker 4: to nearly six hundred million dollars in contracts over the
Speaker 4: next year and a half. If you were the Celtics,
Speaker 4: are you making that investment?
Speaker 1: Matt?
Speaker 2: Do you think these are the two guys to get
Speaker 2: in there?
Speaker 4: You are willing to put six hundred million dollars on
Speaker 4: the table after what you've seen?
Speaker 1: Ah? Yes, absolutely absolutely, because you got to think it
Speaker 1: takes a duo to win, and these guys are both
Speaker 1: in their mid twenties. You're not going to find a
Speaker 1: better duo. You know, Like I said, I think this.
Speaker 1: I mean, look at the team last year. You know
Speaker 1: this is the same team but a year older. So again,
Speaker 1: if if we're taking coaching styles and pointing fingers of
Speaker 1: whose fault it is, at the end of the day, player.
Speaker 1: These players definitely have to play better, both Tatum and Brown,
Speaker 1: and they know it. They have to play better. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I think having a coach there that will hold you
Speaker 1: accountable helps with that. But as far as breaking this
Speaker 1: duo up, they you know, the media and people have
Speaker 1: been trying to break this due up for like the
Speaker 1: last four years, which is which is insane because these
Speaker 1: guys are young and both very, very talented, and I
Speaker 1: feel like this is still a championship roster. So Mozilla's
Speaker 1: gonna have to you know, I don't know what coaches
Speaker 1: do to get better over the summer, but whatever it is,
Speaker 1: he's going to have to do that because this team
Speaker 1: is still one of the most talented rosters, has some
Speaker 1: of the best players in the world, and they have
Speaker 1: everything you need to win a championship. So players haven't
Speaker 1: played well, Mozula has to step his game up. But
Speaker 1: I'm one thousand percent maxing both Brown and Tatum out
Speaker 1: because if I'm not mistaken, I think these guys are
Speaker 1: like twenty six or twenty seven, like where are you
Speaker 1: gonna and another duo that has that kind of chemistry
Speaker 1: out there? You won't?
Speaker 4: I agree, I I definitely you know, I'm not looking
Speaker 4: at the break up either. It's just I mean, DeMarcus,
Speaker 4: that's six hundred million dollar investment.
Speaker 2: So are you a warm with Matt that you spend
Speaker 2: the six hundred million.
Speaker 3: I don't think it really comes down to the team.
Speaker 3: I think it's also a situation of, you know, does
Speaker 3: Jalen Brown want to be there? Anohing? I mean, I
Speaker 3: think that's that Houston situation. We all know they have
Speaker 3: a lot of cap space this summer. You know, they
Speaker 3: hired a coach that he was, you know, he enjoyed
Speaker 3: playing for. I think that situation could easily change. We
Speaker 3: all kind of know deep down inside he wants to
Speaker 3: be that number one guy. I feel like he has
Speaker 3: the talent the dude. I feel like he's shown the
Speaker 3: ability to do so. Uh He's always kind of living
Speaker 3: in the shadow with Jason Tatum regards that their duo
Speaker 3: works or not. It's a lot of what IF's in
Speaker 3: that situation outside of you know, will this working. So
Speaker 3: I do think it could work in Boston. I do
Speaker 3: think those guys are working money. But I think it's
Speaker 3: more than just it being in an organization's decision. I
Speaker 3: think James Brown has some say so on this as.
Speaker 1: What I think he has a lot booget. I think
Speaker 1: that's a great point because whenever you hear about you know,
Speaker 1: one person going, it's never Tatum, It's always Brown. Brown's
Speaker 1: name is always the name that that that that's throwing
Speaker 1: in there. And I think you make a great point.
Speaker 1: I mean, who doesn't want to be the one A
Speaker 1: My only pushback is is he's been a great duo.
Speaker 1: But I think sometimes guys underestimate the pressure of being him,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like what kind of if
Speaker 1: Jalon Brown is your number one superstar, can he carry
Speaker 1: a team? And I think that is going to be
Speaker 1: a huge question moving forward, because there's no question he
Speaker 1: has that kind of talent. But when you're actually him,
Speaker 1: when you are the number one guy, which you know
Speaker 1: obviously Tatum in Boston, is if Jalon Brown goes to
Speaker 1: an organization where he's number one, can he carry an
Speaker 1: organization like that? So I think obviously that's a big question.
Speaker 1: But but he made a great point. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think more than anybody, it's up to Jaylen Brown whether
Speaker 1: he wants to return, because he is always the one
Speaker 1: with the most talent that they're dangling in front of
Speaker 1: everyone when it comes to if someone's moving, it's going
Speaker 1: to be him.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and players, players remember that stuff. I know
Speaker 2: y'all do.
Speaker 3: So it's the simular situation. It's a similar situation with that.
Speaker 3: We That's how we ended up finding out who James
Speaker 3: Harden is. That's how he became a legend he is.
Speaker 3: It was a similar situations when James had to leave. Okay, see,
Speaker 3: it was the same questions, can he carry a team?
Speaker 3: Can he be that superstow? Can he be that number
Speaker 3: one option? And we saw what he turned into. So
Speaker 3: Jaylen Brown is doing it with so called being the
Speaker 3: second option. So just imagine what he could do with,
Speaker 3: you know, a team being his own. So I think
Speaker 3: it's a real possibility.
Speaker 4: One of the man many things we will watch the sufseason,
Speaker 4: although Celtics not quite there yet. As we take this,
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Speaker 4: these moments?
Speaker 2: Who would you collect? Who would you bank up?
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go with my sad guy, Keegan. I think
Speaker 3: you played a huge role with this team, first time
Speaker 3: playoff team in the past twenty years, or whatever the
Speaker 3: case may be. You know, he started reguarded some of
Speaker 3: the best players every night. He fit in seamlessly, just
Speaker 3: being able to come into a winning situation early. He
Speaker 3: has a rookie can only do wonders for your career
Speaker 3: later on that a lot. So I think I think
Speaker 3: he has a bright future.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean that's what I was gonna say, So
Speaker 1: I don't want to double up. And I stand everything
Speaker 1: that Boogie's saying because I really feel like he is
Speaker 1: going to be a great two way player because Mike
Speaker 1: Brown is challenging with that. One of the purious shots
Speaker 1: we have in the game. He's a big kid. So
Speaker 1: I really like Keegan. So if I'm not gonna choose Kean,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna chose Paolow. My whole thing is just you know,
Speaker 1: and Bookie can speak to this. I mean, just going
Speaker 1: to an organization that's not stable, being a star at
Speaker 1: an organization that's not stable. Yeah, you're gonna put up
Speaker 1: great numbers, but are you going to be able to
Speaker 1: you know, really carry a situation and a lot of time,
Speaker 1: it's not on the players. It's more on the coaching
Speaker 1: and management when it comes to that. So really, like Palo,
Speaker 1: just don't know what's gonna happen in Orlando. They got
Speaker 1: a lot of young, good pieces, but is that going
Speaker 1: to translate into anything?
Speaker 4: Well, you can start your NBA Top Shot collection today
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Speaker 4: only sportsbook you need this postseason Tuesday Night, do or
Speaker 4: die game for the Celtics guys.
Speaker 2: Game four, Heat are one and a half point favorites.
Speaker 4: So, Matt, do the Celtics extend the series or do
Speaker 4: the Heat complete this week in South Beach.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say
Speaker 1: that the Celtics get the next two and lose in
Speaker 1: Game six.
Speaker 2: All right, excellent betting advice. Bugging, I'm gonna go to opposite.
Speaker 1: Room.
Speaker 3: We spoke on this last episode. Many you already near
Speaker 3: the Caribbean. Man, let's start this vacation. Man, so complete
Speaker 3: bats book.
Speaker 2: It's like I'm in Puerto Rico. Come join by.
Speaker 1: Great, you are looking You're killing it. You are looking
Speaker 1: a little you are looking a little bit more centiment
Speaker 1: out there.
Speaker 3: You see me glowing, glowing.
Speaker 2: You look good off the court, you look good on
Speaker 2: the court.
Speaker 4: Twenty five points, fifteen boards, Matt, this guy scored the
Speaker 4: big one the other night.
Speaker 2: I mean he's cooking up there.
Speaker 1: He can do that. He can do that in this
Speaker 1: sleep man. That that doesn't impress me, because what makes
Speaker 1: me mad is he should be doing this on the
Speaker 1: NBA court. So, I mean nothing he does out there
Speaker 1: surprises me.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: He just needs another shot, man, That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Man's making the best of opportunities. Hopefully they come back around. Man.
Speaker 3: So it is what it is.
Speaker 4: Are you sampling the Puerto Rican culture down there? Getting
Speaker 4: any good restaurant time?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean some good spots, man. I can't get
Speaker 3: past these ampanadas though. Trying to lay.
Speaker 1: Back easy on those big fellas, no.
Speaker 3: Bro, trying to fall back. But man, it's the screaming
Speaker 3: my name. Every day I wake up just screaming my name.
Speaker 3: But yeah, man, I'm really enjoying the people. I'm enjoying
Speaker 3: the culture. I mean, just the authentic and organic way
Speaker 3: of living. Like, I'm enjoying all of it, you know,
Speaker 3: the simpler things of like just everything that comes with
Speaker 3: this album. It's been enjoyable. So this is a good
Speaker 3: experience for I love it.
Speaker 4: And it says so much about you and your character
Speaker 4: that you're out there hooping just you know, you want
Speaker 4: to play ball, and I love that.
Speaker 2: I love people getting to see that good segue.
Speaker 4: By the way, Puerto Rico into Carmelo Anthony, who announced
Speaker 4: his retirement earlier this week after nineteen seasons. You played
Speaker 4: with Mellow on that gold winning Olympic team in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 2: What is your memory of playing with him and of
Speaker 2: your favorite climes of that.
Speaker 3: Man? Smells man. He's hilarious on that team. He was
Speaker 3: the grumpy old man. You know, he was chaperone and
Speaker 3: all the young puppies at the time. So, I mean,
Speaker 3: Mellow is great. He's a legend. He's actually my favorite player.
Speaker 3: You know, I grew up model in my game after Mellow.
Speaker 3: My oldest son middle name is Carmelo. To even further
Speaker 3: into how big of a fan I am a Mellow,
Speaker 3: but I mean he's a god he I mean, his
Speaker 3: legend speaks for himself. Everything he's done, from Denver to
Speaker 3: New York to wherever, he's been definitely an icon in
Speaker 3: his game. He carried it gracefully. He's seen the worst
Speaker 3: of he's seen the best of it. An incredible career.
Speaker 3: My only issue is I just wish he would have
Speaker 3: been able to walk out gracefully the way he deserved to.
Speaker 3: That's my only issue with all of He deserved to
Speaker 3: walk out on his own terms. But an incredible career
Speaker 3: live I legend and I'm happy to see you, you know,
Speaker 3: ride off in the sunset.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely echo wing with Boobe said from a standpoint,
Speaker 1: if he should have been able to write his ticket
Speaker 1: on his way out. And it was crazy his last
Speaker 1: handful of years, how much slander and disrespect he got
Speaker 1: from the media and fans, and but it was never
Speaker 1: from the players because we always knew what he was
Speaker 1: about and the way he moved. One of the toughest
Speaker 1: covers in NBA history, one of the best scores we've
Speaker 1: ever seen, one of the biggest competitors we've ever seen.
Speaker 1: No holes in his offensive game, from dunking on you
Speaker 1: to posting up to you know, stepping off the block,
Speaker 1: to mid range to three pointers. There wasn't a hole
Speaker 1: in his game. He was strong as a fucking ox.
Speaker 1: Just again, one of the greatest players we've ever seen
Speaker 1: and in the game. Will definitely miss him and his
Speaker 1: essence and what he stood on and the man he was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't say enough good things about Carmelo Anthony man
Speaker 1: and I love to see now that he's porn in
Speaker 1: his little man. His little man is going to be
Speaker 1: a problem too. So great career, but my main thing
Speaker 1: out of everything I said, is that what Boogie ended with,
Speaker 1: he should have been able to go out a different way.
Speaker 1: I think he got screwed over towards the end, and
Speaker 1: as much as he's given this game, he should have
Speaker 1: been able to go out on better terms. For sure.
Speaker 4: I certainly agreed that after Houston. I mean, that was
Speaker 4: just a debacle and he just was not treated fairly.
Speaker 4: And I think he's one of the more high character
Speaker 4: guys we've had in this in the last decade or so.
Speaker 4: The stuff that he has done off the court, in
Speaker 4: the community, the leadership position that he took, police brutality,
Speaker 4: and so many other things. Frankly before the NFL took
Speaker 4: it on, I mean that he was talking about this
Speaker 4: stuff for years, and I just think that that sometimes
Speaker 4: we let some of the other narrative get in the.
Speaker 2: Way of what kind of person Carmelo Anthony is.
Speaker 4: And Carmelo Anthony is the kind of guy that you
Speaker 4: want in your community, that you want on your corner,
Speaker 4: that you want on your team.
Speaker 3: And he is a.
Speaker 4: Legend and a Hall of Famer, and I can't wait
Speaker 4: to see him get his flowers. As he continues on
Speaker 4: the sort of post the retirement circuit over the next
Speaker 4: couple of years. I think my two favorite Olympic Carmelo
Speaker 4: stories are well. First of all, book you mentioned him
Speaker 4: being the grumpy old man. I think that was where
Speaker 4: we got that, like Vanessa Carlton thousand miles video of
Speaker 4: him on the bus, just like with Kyrie and those
Speaker 4: guys singing, Mellow just rolling his shot and so unhappy.
Speaker 2: I love that one.
Speaker 4: And I love the story that Jason Kidd told recently
Speaker 4: on Headliners about the two thousand and eight Olympic team
Speaker 4: where Lebron and Kobe it was like kind of their
Speaker 4: first time playing on the same team and Kobe was
Speaker 4: doing his you know, you know, Matt Kobe was doing.
Speaker 2: His four am workouts at the hotel and Lebron.
Speaker 4: Saw that and he had to show up then at
Speaker 4: four am for those workouts too.
Speaker 2: And Mellow's hearing about this later on in practice and
Speaker 2: he just looks at the kid and he goes, I'm
Speaker 2: not doing that shit.
Speaker 3: So perfect.
Speaker 2: It's perfect perfect Mellow right there as well.
Speaker 4: So I just I had it was off to him
Speaker 4: one of my favorite players to cover.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 4: But ye didn't know your son's middle name was Carmelo,
Speaker 4: that's fabulous.
Speaker 2: I love it. I love it all right, Thank you
Speaker 2: guys so much.
Speaker 4: What's Vernon is available every week on Showtime Basketball, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram,
Speaker 4: and TikTok at Show Basketball.
Speaker 2: We'll see you next week. Getting ready for the NBA Finals.