1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told You from how stupp 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And today's episode happened all because 4 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: a relatively small group of much older women, largely from 5 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: Korea and the Philippines, have been making global headlines. Yeah. So, 6 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: back in December, the governments of Japan and South Korea 7 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: came to an agreement to sort of, I don't know, 8 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: apologize for and try to compensate survivors of the comfort 9 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: women system of basically sex slavery during World War Two. 10 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: But the women who were making headlines, the ones Kristen 11 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: is referring to, our women who have already been protesting 12 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: the treatment of comfort women during World War Two for 13 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: decades and are fed up with the sort of softball 14 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: approach that both Japan and South Korea have taken to 15 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: compensating them for their suffering during the war. And so 16 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: you have a lot of women now saying that the 17 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: agreement that was reached between Japan and South Korea in 18 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: December is not good enough. Well, yeah, because the core 19 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: group of those protesters are survivors from the comfort women's system. Um, 20 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:43,559 Speaker 1: and a lot of them are dying at this point, 21 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: you know, and it's starting to feel like the Japanese 22 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: and South Korean governments are almost just putting it off 23 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: and putting it off and putting it off until all 24 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: of them passed away so that they don't have to 25 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: deal with the issue like right and front of their 26 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: faces in the morm of like these women who understandably 27 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: will not let the trauma that happened to them go. 28 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: And speaking of trauma, we should issue uh trigger warning 29 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 1: at this point to say that we will be talking 30 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: about rape and sexual slavery in this episode. Um, so 31 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: let's talk about how all of this happened, Caroline, because 32 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: this is such a a gruesome chapter in our like 33 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: military global military history, but um something that's really important 34 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: for all of us to know about. Yeah, so, just 35 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 1: to give you a little background, between nineteen thirty two 36 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: and nineteen forty five, there were tens of thousands of women, 37 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: many of them Korean, but also Japanese, Filipino, Taiwanese, Chinese 38 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: and Dutch who were sold, coerced, or otherwise forced into 39 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: prostitution in officially sanctioned Japanese brothels. And they were EU 40 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: famistly called comfort women, and there's been some really interesting 41 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: arguments over language over the years. UM. The Japanese did 42 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: coin the comfort woman term, but other women have come 43 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: out since then, particularly survivors, and said we weren't comfort women, 44 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: we were sex slaves. And still other women have taken 45 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 1: issue with the term sex slaves to say that they 46 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: were forced prostitutes. But whatever you call them, there were 47 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: between twenty thousand and four hundred thousand of them from 48 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: that nineteen thirty two to nineteen period, but most ranges 49 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: put the number at fifty to two hundred thousand. And 50 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: the brothels, where a lot of them were forcibly taken 51 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: between the ages of U thirteen in some extreme cases, 52 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: but usually around the age of twenty. Those brothels were 53 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: called comfort stations. UM. And these survivors are now in 54 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: their eighties and nineties, the ones who are still alive, 55 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: and for years so after this, protests have been happening 56 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: weekly outside the Japanese embassy and sold demanding that apology 57 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: that UM. You know, the Japanese and South Korean leaders 58 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: are slowly maybe kind of starting to hash out UM 59 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: and there is a lot of diplomatic controversy though that 60 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: we'll get into more later about those protests in a statue, 61 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: a statue that the protesters erected in front of that 62 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: Japanese embassy um of a girl with a bird on 63 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: her shoulder who represents all of those comfort women. So 64 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: what went down for a little more detail, um in 65 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: December was Japan and South Korea reaching agreement that Japan 66 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: would apologize and pay one billion yen to fund survivors, 67 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 1: and that translates to eight point three million dollars in 68 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: South Korea at Japan's request, would look into and quotes 69 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: taking down that statue that has been up since. But 70 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: the thing is, the women aren't going to receive direct compensation, okay. 71 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: The deal says that the money will quote unquote support 72 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: the women and fund projects for recovering the honor and 73 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 1: dignity and healing the psychological wounds that took place because 74 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: of the comfort woman's system. So kind of again being 75 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: almost euphemistic and talking around the problem. And so, like 76 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 1: we hinted out, a lot of survivors are protesting the deal, 77 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: saying that South Korea's president negotiated it on their behalf 78 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: and without their consent, and these women are saying that 79 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: the deal lacked sincerity and any official accountability on either 80 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: country's part. And you know what all of us reminds 81 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: me of, um, And it's a comparison that's on a 82 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: much smaller scale, arguably than than this kind of uh 83 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: we were to atrocity is the NFL's response to domestic 84 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: violence and how they similarly sort of set up a 85 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: pool of money that would go to this vague cause 86 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: of helping you know, survivors heal, but you you don't 87 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: really know what that actually means. Um. And speaking of 88 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: the money, a lot of these survivors are insisting that 89 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: it's not even about that. Um. This is something that 90 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: an eight eight year old survivor, Lee Wang Sue said, 91 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: um quote. I wonder whether the talks took place with 92 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: the victims really in mind. We're not after the money. 93 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: If the Japanese committed their sins, they should offer direct 94 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: government compensation and they want that sincere apology and for 95 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: in that apology for what happened to them to be named. Yeah. 96 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: And so some of the more recent news though, is 97 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 1: that as of early April, there's been no money. No 98 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: money has shown up, and it's not entirely the fault 99 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: of Japan. It seems to be sort of fault on 100 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: both sides because in early April, the leaders of Japan 101 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,119 Speaker 1: and South Korea met again again, agreeing to implement this deal. 102 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: But the whole agreement was that South Korea would first 103 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: set up a foundation to accept the money, and they 104 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: haven't done that yet. So, you know, we're in twenty sixteen. 105 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: This happened leading up to and during World War Two 106 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: and they're still there. Still hasn't really been a direct resolution, 107 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: and this isn't the first time that unsatisfying deals have 108 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: been struck in the name of these women. Back in 109 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five, Japan gave more than eight hundred million 110 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: dollars in economic aid and loans to South Korea, but 111 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:52,679 Speaker 1: none of that was specifically addressing comfort women, and Japan 112 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,679 Speaker 1: did acknowledge its responsibility and apologized in a nineteen ninety 113 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: three statement which the government it since has actively tried 114 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: to water down. And a private fund that was established 115 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: in n for the survivors was funded largely by private 116 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: and citizen donations, although the Japanese government did contribute a 117 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: few million, and in the same way, Caroline that that 118 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: we've seen, say, in the United States holocaust deniers. Um 119 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: you have in incident, when a mention of comfort women 120 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: in I think it was Japanese textbooks, apparently quote sparked 121 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: a strong wave of masculinist nationalism. According to author C. 122 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: Sarah So, that resulted in an anti comfort women campaign, 123 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: which essentially dismissed them as just a group of willing 124 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 1: prostitutes who should not be trusted or believed. And they 125 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: just followed the military around just like groupies, that's all. 126 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: There was no coercion involved. Yeah, And lest you think 127 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: this was just a bunch of maybe angry male citizens 128 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: saying this. Uh. This was basically the official stance of 129 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: the Japanese president in twelve when he and four future 130 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: cabinet members placed an ad in a New Jersey newspaper 131 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: decrying a new comfort woman memorial that had been erected 132 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: in a largely Korean neighborhood in New Jersey. And in 133 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: addition to saying like, gee, I wish you hadn't done that, 134 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: New Jersey Korean community, they at the time and since 135 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: have proceeded to paint Japan as the victim of almost 136 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: slander for people even wanting to talk about comfort women. 137 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: But one thing that documentary and Tiffany Schung has emphasized 138 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: about the stories of the surviving comfort women, whom she 139 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: calls the Grandmas, and she's making an entire documentary about 140 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 1: them called The Apology. Um. She's emphasized how this isn't 141 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: just about them, it's about all survivors of sexual assault. Um. 142 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: She said, this apology that they're fighting for is really 143 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: for all of us. We need this apology as a 144 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: society that has faced injustice, specifically women who have faced 145 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: sexual violence. Yeah. And the director said that she was 146 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: able to form this bond with these Filipino Grandma's as 147 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: she calls them, because she herself had been a victim 148 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: of sexual violence. And so there was this fabulous article 149 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: that we read not only about Shun's film The Apology, 150 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: but also her experience meeting and bonding with these women. Uh. 151 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: And the importance of having women tell women's stories, because yes, 152 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: the comfort women's stories have absolutely been told. The history 153 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 1: is out there. But as the author of the article 154 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: and as Son points out, there's there's a division there 155 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: when you have men telling the story of these intense, 156 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: private women who have been essentially abused and neglected their 157 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: entire lives. Um. And so I am, I'm really excited 158 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: that this documentary is coming out. And uh, like Kristen said, 159 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: it is perfect timing because there's there is a sense 160 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: of urgency to to get that apology and to honor 161 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: these women. So now we have to talk about how 162 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: this system even worked too fully, understand why these women 163 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: need this apology so badly. Um. But before we get 164 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: to World War two, we have to go back to 165 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: the late nineteenth century when Korea signed a treaty with 166 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: Japan after an incident between a Korean garrison and a 167 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: Japanese warship. And this treaty would eventually open the door 168 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: for Japan to annex Korea as a colony in nineteen ten. 169 00:11:55,520 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: And with all of this, you have elements of racism, classism, 170 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: and essentially violent masculinity, all creating building up this comfort 171 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: women's system. Yeah, and so you get licensed prostitution first 172 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: emerging in a Korean port city where Japan had established 173 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: a settlement, and the bigger the Japanese military presence, the 174 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: more pleasure houses spring up to serve them. Um. A 175 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: lot of the women who were working in these brothels 176 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: basically were Japanese and they had been duped. Right off 177 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: the bat, you get coercion and deception. They had been 178 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: duped by recruiters who told them that, well, you'll just 179 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: likely be a second tier geisha essentially when you travel 180 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: to Korea, not a prostitute. So right off the bat 181 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: you get the theme of lying to women to convince 182 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: them to be sex workers. Um after annexation in nineteen ten, 183 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: up until nineteen fifteen, the number of Korean prostitutes skyrockets 184 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: compared to a relatively small increase of Japanese prostitutes in Korea. 185 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: And in nineteen sixteen we get some regulations. That's great, right, 186 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: that's positive, regulations helpful, well kind of, but not really. 187 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: The colonial government in Korea called for regulations of prostitution 188 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: only out of fears over venereal diseases. But it's not 189 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: like it improved working conditions for these women, which were horrendous, 190 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 1: and it didn't change the fact that thirteen year old 191 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: girls and many of these brothels were the most popular 192 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: with the Japanese soldiers and overall, when you look at 193 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: the entire population of prostitutes in Korea, Korean sex workers 194 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: skewed way younger and earned way less than their Japanese coworkers, 195 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: many of whom had already worked in the adult entertainment 196 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: industry in Japan, as opposed to the Korean women, many 197 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: of whom had sort of been forced into this line 198 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: of work because of difficult financial times they were sustaining 199 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: because of absent husbands. So in Japan, signs and international 200 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: treaty banning the trafficking of women and girls, okay, seems 201 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 1: like another good thing, kind of like those colonial regulations, 202 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: but it includes a provision to allow the practice to 203 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: continue in the colonies. So eventually Korean women become known 204 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: as the industrial comfort women in Japan and China, and 205 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: by their early thirties there were about one hundred Korean 206 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: women per month who were sold overseas and it was 207 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: pretty much a normal part of life. And by the 208 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: mid thirties, forty percent of Koreans had stephilis. And then 209 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty two we get the first official military 210 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: comfort station. Yeah, so as early as nineteen thirty two, 211 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: after there were hostilities between Japan and China and Shanghai, 212 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: you get Japan establishing comfort stations for their troops in China. 213 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: And these first military sanctioned sex slaves, I mean that's 214 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: what they were, were Korean women who had been living 215 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: in Japan. They were sent to this area around Shanghai, 216 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: and they were sent because the commanding officer had ordered 217 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: the governor in that region of Japan to send them. 218 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: They were sent for as if they were rations for 219 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: the troops to live on. And the reasoning was that 220 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: a formal system of controlled prostitution would result in a 221 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: reduced number of rape reports in the area where the 222 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: Japanese Imperial Army was based, and it would serve to 223 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: control venereal diseases. So the answer to preventing men from 224 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: raping is to enslave other women. And here is the 225 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: thing that listeners should keep in mind. Not to give 226 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: away too much about our next podcast this episode coming out, 227 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: but this idea, this whole concept of you know, the 228 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: military's coming in, rape reports go up, so we need 229 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: to just bring in prostitutes of some sort so that 230 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: men can these soldiers can relieve their their check sexual needs. 231 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: That is not exclusive to Japan. This is something that 232 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: happened in militaries including the US of A, all all 233 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: throughout this time. But I don't want to get to 234 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: ahead of myself. Let's go back to UH ninety seven, 235 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:42,359 Speaker 1: when the comfort station system was revived after Japan captures 236 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: the Chinese city of Nanking during the Nanking Massacre, which 237 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: included six weeks of rape and murder. So again, how 238 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: do we maintain discipline and morale? I mean, all of 239 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: these atrocities are going on. Oh that comfort station system 240 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: thing from nine thirty two, that that kept the soldiers 241 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: pretty happy. Yeah, and so over the course of just 242 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: a few weeks, the Japanese had used their trade contacts. Again, 243 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: it's disgusting to think of just using trade contacts the 244 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: way you would try to, like ship in weapons and 245 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: military supplies to access women. Uh, but also used deception. 246 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: They promised women jobs as cooks and laundresses for the army, 247 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: just to get as many women as possible. And this 248 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: particular station that was set up in the wake of 249 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 1: the Nanking massacre was a prototype for later stations which 250 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: opened and were overseen by the military, but they were 251 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: also run by civilians who were more than happy to 252 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: earn money and paramilitary rank in doing so. You were 253 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: awarded paramilitary rank if you as a citizen ran a 254 00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: military brothel, and in Korea, those civilians were largely of 255 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: Korean men and women who helped lure the girls for 256 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: the Japanese. Yeah, that was one thing, Caroline that jumped 257 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: out to me when we were reading a first hand 258 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: account of one of these women who had been lied to. 259 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: She thought she was going to get a factory job 260 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: and she ends up on a boat where she sort 261 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: of passed along to a couple like a man duding 262 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: a lady who were you know, tricking her into doing 263 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: all of this. Um, And it's just it's the whole 264 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: thing is it's really hard to wrap your mind around sometimes. Um. 265 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: But if we go too we see this whole system 266 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: being rewarded over and over again. For instance, a Japanese 267 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: Navy lieutenant was stationed in Borneo and he was fed 268 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: up with air field construction work being stalled because all 269 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: the dudes were just like fighting, gambling, uh, sexually assaulting women. 270 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 1: It was just pandemonium. And rather than figuring out a 271 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: way to discipline these soldiers, they're like, huh oh yeah, 272 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: comfort stations. So you have Lieutenant u Shiro Nakasone organizing 273 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: a comfort station with four Indonesian women, and he found 274 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: that it quote mitigated the mood of his soldiers so 275 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: well that later a naval report commended him for implementing 276 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 1: this comfort station. Um. But there is sort of an 277 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: awkward side note to this, uh nakasone. That same lieutenant 278 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: was Prime Minister of Japan from two to seven, and 279 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: in October his son became chair of a commission established 280 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 1: to quote consider concrete measures to restore Japan's honor with 281 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 1: regard to the comfort women issue um and nakasone. If 282 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: I'm remembering correctly, the former prime minister Um not his 283 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: son wrote a memo war Confirming, in which he did 284 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: confirm all of these comfort women's um testimonies which had 285 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: previously been been doubted. Well, I mean he'd he'd been 286 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: commended for it and had become prime ministers, so I 287 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: mean he he essentially had nothing to lose by confirming 288 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: this stuff. But I mean it seemed like, I don't know, 289 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: in the not that it makes it okay, but in 290 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: the way I was reading about his memoir, it didn't 291 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: sound bragging at all, but rather I mean remorseful. I mean, 292 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: he knew it was messed up. Yeah, well it is 293 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: uh And writing about this whole situation with Nakistani they 294 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: The New York Times wrote that his decision to provide 295 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: comfort women to his troops was then replicated by thousands 296 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: of Imperial Japanese Army and Navy officers across the region, 297 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: both before and during World War Two as a matter 298 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: of policy. So all across the region, they wrote, women 299 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: were treated it as the first reward of conquest. Again, 300 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: women were objects. They were nothing but military rations. Yeah, 301 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: I mean, and because of that, they were doled out 302 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: as officially as say, you know in MRI E. So 303 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: you have the Army and Navy trafficking young women, putting 304 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: them in specially built facilities, establishing a fee structure for 305 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: comfort station clients, and providing medical inspections to lower the 306 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,959 Speaker 1: rates of STDs. And if you're thinking WTF, because I 307 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 1: hope you are, you should be. I mean, just look 308 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: at the underlying attitude. The military thought that sex was 309 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: good for morale, and that at least by having a 310 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: system of controlled prostitution, they could limit STD transmission, like 311 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: you said, and therefore keep men happier and in the 312 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: field longer. And keep in mind that as all of 313 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: this is going on. Armies in Europe and the United 314 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: States are doing the same kinds of things. Yeah, but 315 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: I mean this was as official a part of the 316 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,479 Speaker 1: war effort as you can get if we jump back 317 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: to nine. One source we read said that Japan's war 318 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: machine rested squarely on the contributions of Korean migrant laborers overseas. UH. 319 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: The colonial Korean government required Korean men sixteen to forty 320 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 1: and unmarried Korean women sixteen to twenty five to enroll 321 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 1: as a potential labor supply. They did not require the 322 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: same thing of Japanese women, though, because those women, as 323 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: part of the war effort, were expected to stay home 324 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: and pop out more Japanese babies. Now and rolling as 325 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: a potential labor supply and in rolling to contribute to 326 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: the war effort as a Korean woman did not mean 327 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: the same thing as it did in the United States, 328 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: where we're cheering on Rosie riveters and the like. UH. 329 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 1: In nineteen forty four, you get the creation of the 330 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: Women's Volunteer Labor Corps with both Korean and Japanese women. UH. 331 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: It's not entirely clear how many women were part of 332 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: this core UH. And while some you know, did become secretaries, 333 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: They did paperwork, they sewed uniforms. Others were sent like 334 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 1: cattle to the front lines to be comfort women. And 335 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: the core quickly in people's minds became associated with prostitution. 336 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: And I mean if women volunteered for the war effort, 337 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 1: and I mean they thought they were volunteering for the 338 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: war effort, not to be prostitutes, and they didn't show 339 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: up for duty. This official system of volunteering allowed police 340 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: officials to go to women's homes and enforce their service, 341 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: essentially show up at their house and drag them away 342 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: service and quotes as in sex slavery. Yeah, and I mean, granted, 343 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: it wasn't only Korean women being victimized, as we mentioned 344 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: at the top of the podcast. It was essentially anywhere 345 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: occupied by Japan's in imperial military. But they weren't all 346 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: from Asian countries. Um, this was sort of unexpected to me. 347 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: You also had Dutch boys, girls, men, and women seized 348 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: from internment camps in the Dutch East Indies now part 349 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 1: of Indonesia to satisfy really arrange of sexual preferences. And 350 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: you have a lot of instances of Dutch mothers in 351 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: these internment camps, trading sex for food, trading sex for 352 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: protection of their children. And one Dutch now Australian, she 353 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: and her husband live in Australia. Activist is Jan Ruff O'Hearn, 354 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: who at nineties three is still actively fighting for apologies 355 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: and fighting for a visibility for these survivors. And she 356 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: was one of those young Dutch women forced into sex slavery. 357 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: But she's one of those who definitely says comfort women 358 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: is an insult to call us comfort women. That's not 359 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: what we were. But there are so many racist and 360 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: classist overtones in this whole discussion. And because the Dutch 361 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: government wanted to punish the prostitution of their women, but 362 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: not necessarily because these were human rights violations. More because 363 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: these women were upper class and white, and you just 364 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: simply can't have Asian men touching and abusing white women. 365 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: I mean, you also have instances of British and Australian women. 366 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 1: There was a hospital ship that wrecked off of Sumatra 367 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: and they were essentially given the choice by their captors 368 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 1: of starving in a pow camp or being sent to brothels. Yeah, 369 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: I mean, and and the horrifying thing about all of 370 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: this is that wherever you are on the map, like, 371 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: you can't talk about women in war time and not 372 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 1: talk about rape. Yeah, you know, I mean it's it's 373 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: it's a fact, and it always always happens. But in 374 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: the case of the comfort women who were exploited by Japan, 375 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 1: the majority worker in and we are going to talk 376 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: more about some of these social and cultural systems that 377 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: allowed this to perpetuate when we come right back from 378 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: a quick break. 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So you 405 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: want to give a little bit of a cultural context 406 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: to what was happening in Korea along with the rise 407 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: of comfort women, and we are citing research from see 408 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: Sarah So who we decided earlier. She wrote The Comfort 409 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,439 Speaker 1: Women's Sexual Violence and post Colonial Memory in Korea and Japan, 410 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: and she writes about how the rise of forced prostitution 411 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: among Korean women coincided with many breaking away from Confucian 412 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: morays and what we're called the three obediences, which was 413 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: obedience to father, to husband, and once widowed, obedience to 414 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: your son in favor of being a new woman, you know, 415 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: kind of the new woman in quotes like we saw 416 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: here in the United States around the nine twenties and thirties, um, 417 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: and we have more of these Korean new women striking 418 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: out in pursuit of an education, a job, or simply 419 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: to escape a bad home situation. They wanted to make 420 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: new lives for themselves. Yeah, and I mean class definitely 421 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: enters into this situation because a lot of these women 422 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: were poor. They were working with their impoverished families on farms, 423 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: and they wanted to go to Japan to get those 424 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: well paying and high paying factory jobs. Ensure there were 425 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: some women who actually did get those jobs, not to 426 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: mention women who became doctors, teachers, reporters, waitresses, you name it. 427 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: But and this is really no different than the quote 428 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: unquote new woman in America striking out and getting those jobs. 429 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: You were still expected to be a sexually attractive young 430 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: thing to go get a job outside the home. But 431 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: many of the male factory recruiters who visited these small 432 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: towns looking for women, of course, weren't actually trying to 433 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: find factory girls. They were there to take women away 434 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,239 Speaker 1: from their homes straight to these military brothels, and in 435 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: a lot of cases, they didn't have to work hard. 436 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: There are stories about these recruiters presenting young girls who 437 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: really didn't know any better with a package of new, fancy, 438 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: modern clothes and shoes, promising them a better life, like here, 439 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: look at this great outfit, Like this is all the 440 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: rage and the big city. Don't you want to come 441 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: work in these factories so you can make money to 442 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: buy more of these clothes and wear them all around town. 443 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: And so you have these girls who've never been away 444 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: from home, never been outside their villages, don't have much education, 445 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: and certainly don't have much life experience outside of the farm, 446 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: and they were easily dooped, especially especially and this is 447 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: so it's just the rain clouds keep getting bigger, especially 448 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: because local authorities and even teachers, people that these girls 449 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: grew up knowing and trusting, were sometimes in on the 450 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: recruitment efforts, and these efforts were huge just in order 451 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: to keep up with demand as more soldiers for station 452 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: and overseas, and they used violence, deception, coercion, including attacking 453 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: and killing family members who tried to protect the girls. 454 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: I mean, you also have situations where they would come 455 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: in rape the girl in front of her parents before 456 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: taking her away. So I mean it just horrors on 457 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: top of horrors. Um and many of the girls had 458 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: already been prostituted and abused multiple times by their own 459 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: families as well. Yeah and so so. The author so 460 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: writes that yes, Japan's colonialism absolutely perpetuated this system, and undoubtedly, 461 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: she wrote, facilitated the large scale victimization of tens of 462 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: thousands of Korean women who suffered an unspeakable sexual ordeal 463 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: and ethnic discrimination. However, she writes that their lifelong sufferings 464 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: are more complex, and what makes them more complex is 465 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: the gender based violence it was tolerated in They're already 466 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: patriarchal home and family structures, and they themselves in Korea 467 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: were quote steeped in masculinist sexual culture and so a 468 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: lot of times money for the family and men's sexual 469 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: drives and dominance were more important than women's health and 470 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: safety and agency. And a lot of families would sell 471 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: their daughters for years at a time, and this is 472 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: outside of the Japanese soldiers even taking them. They would 473 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: prostitute their daughters for four to seven years at a time, 474 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: usually getting to take a cut of whatever their daughters 475 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: earned in the brothels. So once we get into the 476 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: comfort stations, what was going on, Well, we know details 477 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: about life in there because it was highly regulated and maintained. 478 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: You have the Japanese military meticulously recording details of this 479 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: system um that really appeared to be regarded as just 480 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: another amenity of military life. So you have the rules 481 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: for comfort stations in places like Shanghai, Okinawa and other 482 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: parts of Japan and China and the Philippines that still survived, 483 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: detailing rules for hygiene, hours of service, contraception, payment of women, 484 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: and prohibitions of alcohol and weapons. Um. So even though 485 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: brothels already existed in Japan, there was license prostitution, you 486 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: still had these comfort stations. It was like again, that's 487 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: where the amenity factor comes, and it's like, oh, well 488 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: here's here's a bonus um and all of those regulations 489 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: don't even make all that much sense. You know, it's 490 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: obviously a good idea to keep booze and weapons out 491 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: of there, but the attempt to impose fear, treatment and 492 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: decorum are in stark contrast to the brutality that these 493 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: women reported. And the significance of this documentation is that 494 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: it really shows not only how widespread this comfort woman 495 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,879 Speaker 1: practice was and how deeply rudeed it was, but also 496 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,919 Speaker 1: how legitimized it was. I mean, they're, like Kristen said, 497 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: the Japanese are providing comfort stations, even in Japan where 498 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: they were already brothels and houses of pleasure, because it 499 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: was regulated. It was like, Okay, you've got to go 500 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,879 Speaker 1: to the doctor, and then you've got to go visit 501 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: the comfort station because you know, it's regulated and more 502 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: quote unquote hygienic than I guess going to your average 503 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: Japanese brothel. And to get a glimpse into sort of 504 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: the range of experiences that women had at these places, 505 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: it was common for some, not all, to have quote 506 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: unquote day jobs. Uh they might be working in the fields, farming, Uh, 507 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: they might be cooking, digging trenches, et cetera, only to 508 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: then start their night job where they were raped all 509 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,479 Speaker 1: night long. Uh. Their movement was restricted, they lived behind 510 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: barbed wire, they were guarded, they had no free time, 511 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 1: and many of the women the first hand accounts after 512 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,879 Speaker 1: the war described barely even having time to wash themselves 513 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: and the places that they would do. All of this varied. 514 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: I mean, it might have been building taken over by 515 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: the military. It might be a makeshift structure. They would 516 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 1: create rooms and quotes by just hanging mats up as dividers, 517 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: and there was really only room for a mattress on 518 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: the floor. There was no protection from the heat or cold, 519 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: and healthcare was provided but only for treating STDs. Physical 520 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: injuries like bruises, cuts and burns were simply dismissed. And 521 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: I mean, of course, it's worth noting that these bruises, 522 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: cuts and burns were from the soldiers. They weren't just 523 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 1: like bumping into things, So it didn't matter what the 524 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: soldiers did to them as long as they did not 525 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: have an STD. And I mean, we we read a 526 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: bunch of first hand accounts across several projects. There are 527 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: it's not just the documentary filmmaker that we cited earlier 528 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: in the podcast. There are photographers who are trying to 529 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: keep track of these women's experiences so we don't lose them. 530 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,240 Speaker 1: There's one resource called the True Stories of the Korean 531 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 1: comfort Women from nineteen nine two uh they spoke with 532 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: Kim chuk Chin, who describes her experience of being seventeen 533 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: years old in nineteen thirty seven and hearing that girls 534 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: were being recruited to work at factories in Japan. She 535 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: she heard about this man who was in town and 536 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: that he would give you a good job. You just 537 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: had to travel to Japan to get your factory job. 538 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 1: And this is the woman that Kristen hinted at earlier 539 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: in the podcast. So Talkin gets on a boat to 540 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 1: Nagasaki and she's full of optimism. She's excited to make money, 541 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: and she starts to realize that something's fishy when she 542 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: and other girls start to notice that they're being guarded 543 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: by soldiers, and she starts asking, you know, what's going on, 544 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,240 Speaker 1: what's happening. That first night that they land in Japan, 545 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 1: she was raped by a high ranking Japanese soldier and 546 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: she and the other women were then taken to an 547 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: official military brothel near Shanghai, and she told her interviewer 548 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: that each of us had to serve an average of 549 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: thirty to forty men each day, and we often had 550 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: no time to sleep. And she also writes about how 551 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 1: condoms were common in the house. They were in every 552 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: room available, and about half of the men agreed to 553 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:44,359 Speaker 1: use them. The other half, however, UH didn't care because 554 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,320 Speaker 1: they even when she lied and said I have a 555 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 1: venereal disease, if you catch it, you'll die, she had 556 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: so many men who said, I don't care. I'm going 557 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 1: to die on the battlefield anyway, And so she really 558 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,879 Speaker 1: feared for her life from every angle. Yeah, I mean 559 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 1: she feared also you know, catching contracting CD, also getting pregnant. UM. 560 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,280 Speaker 1: I mean, they had no control over their own bodies. 561 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: And and that's also to why I think that these 562 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 1: UM visual documentaries of these women, whether it's on film 563 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: or through photography, is also so powerful, because reading these 564 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: accounts is almost so horrifying that it is hard to 565 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,320 Speaker 1: grasp and believe, and seeing the faces of these women 566 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: humanizes UM their experiences so much. UM. A woman named 567 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 1: Neem is another one who Jan Banning has taken photographs 568 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: of and interviewed UM. She was taken in when she 569 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 1: was just ten years old, and she told Banning, I 570 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: was nothing but a toy. As a human being, I 571 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,280 Speaker 1: meant nothing and that's how it felt during the Japanese era. 572 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,439 Speaker 1: And another Filipino woman that Banning profiled was a woman 573 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,439 Speaker 1: named math Dia who told her that she was picked 574 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 1: up by a Japanese captain to be his personal comfort woman. 575 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:09,240 Speaker 1: And this wasn't uncommon. I mean, you had women living 576 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 1: a full range of admittedly all horrific experiences during before 577 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,839 Speaker 1: and during the war as comfort women, whether they were 578 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: living in a brothel with a hundred other women, or 579 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: whether they were a personal sex slave to a high 580 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: ranking officer. But Massias said that she lived with this 581 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: captain in his barracks and had to travel with him 582 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: from place to place. And after the war, when she 583 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 1: finally made it home, she went through what she described 584 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: as a religious cleansing to wash away sin, but she 585 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 1: was always an outcast after that, people literally called her 586 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: a quote Japanese hand me down. And talking about the 587 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: the continuing trauma that these women experienced after they returned home, 588 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: Banning also profiles a woman named r Nashi who was 589 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,359 Speaker 1: kidnapped on her way home from school at their teen 590 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 1: and she said that in order to get home after 591 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: the war, she was so in pain all over her 592 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,720 Speaker 1: body that she couldn't walk, and so she crawled home. 593 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: And she said, I only married late because I first 594 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: wanted to think my wound sat and healed. Yet I 595 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: was afraid and I wanted to get better first, And 596 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 1: she ended up having to have surgeries for internal injuries. 597 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: And that's also another theme that you hear in interviews 598 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: with these survivors of the physical damage that was done 599 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 1: to their bodies as well, in addition to force sterilization. Yeah, yes, exactly, 600 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: some of these women uh ended up sterile after these experiences, 601 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: whether it was because of the extent or the of 602 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: the physical trauma, or whether it was because doctors removed 603 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 1: their uteruses. So, I mean, the amount of physical, mental, 604 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:57,960 Speaker 1: and emotional trauma that these women faced cannot be overstated. 605 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,279 Speaker 1: And thing really didn't get that much better once the 606 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: war ended. And this is coming A lot of this 607 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: information today has come from a really incredibly detailed and 608 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: horrifyingly comprehensive nineteen UN report that the Japanese government tried 609 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 1: to have retracted, but the author avoided that um so 610 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: after the war, many of these comfort women were killed 611 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 1: by the retreating Japanese troops or simply abandoned like so 612 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 1: much trash uh in Micronesia. For example, the Japanese army 613 00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: killed seventy women in a single night quote because quote 614 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,279 Speaker 1: they felt the women would be an incumbrance or an 615 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 1: embarrassment were they to be captured by the advancing American troops. 616 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 1: And the ones who weren't abandoned or killed, like women 617 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,640 Speaker 1: who were serving at frontline comfort stations, they were expected 618 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 1: to take part in the last ditch effort fighting, including 619 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 1: going on suicide missions with soldiers, and many, like Rnashi, 620 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,520 Speaker 1: had to crawl or walk miles and miles and miles 621 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,400 Speaker 1: back to their village, where they may or may not 622 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,400 Speaker 1: have been accepted by the surviving members of their family. 623 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: But for those women who had to find their way 624 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,840 Speaker 1: back home, a lot of them would have no idea 625 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 1: where they were because they had been you know, taken 626 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: along with the army. So when the war ends and 627 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 1: they're completely abandoned, it's not like they have some kind 628 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,400 Speaker 1: of GPS system, do you know, to be able to 629 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,880 Speaker 1: get back to their village. So even just getting back 630 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 1: home was a whole other ordeal, and they had no money, 631 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 1: very few ever received any payment. Um. And then afterwards, 632 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 1: of course they're grappling with trauma and fertility, poverty, STDs 633 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: and the continuing stigma of having been a sex slave essentially, Yeah, exactly, 634 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,799 Speaker 1: because I mean think about the try that they went 635 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 1: through and then being turned away frequently by family members 636 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,600 Speaker 1: and other village residents. I mean, it's no wonder that 637 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 1: it took until nine for the first former comfort woman 638 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,239 Speaker 1: to speak out, and she was afterward followed over the 639 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,480 Speaker 1: course of twenty or so years by more than two 640 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,879 Speaker 1: hundred other women. But still, I mean, that's an incredible 641 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:29,799 Speaker 1: number of women who were forced or felt forced to 642 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,040 Speaker 1: live in silence after the fact. And as we'll talk 643 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,839 Speaker 1: about more in our next episode. Um, you know, the 644 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:43,920 Speaker 1: the comfort woman system and structure really existed across militaries 645 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:49,080 Speaker 1: from the nineteenth century, I mean and earlier on, and 646 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 1: so this system of treating women like like just sex 647 00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:00,799 Speaker 1: toys was not uncommon across the globe. And that's why 648 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:05,799 Speaker 1: it's so important to talk about this shameful history well, 649 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 1: and use the word shameful. I mean, it seems like 650 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 1: that's something that has kept the survivors silent for so 651 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,399 Speaker 1: long because of a shame attached to it, and it's 652 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:21,840 Speaker 1: also something that has held up diplomatic negotiations and also 653 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:26,560 Speaker 1: apologies to these women, formal reparations to these women, because 654 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:32,600 Speaker 1: it is a shameful chapter in you know, both countries histories, 655 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:37,439 Speaker 1: and no one really wants to take full ownership of it. Um. 656 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,840 Speaker 1: There is this place called the House of Sharing, which 657 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,360 Speaker 1: is essentially like a living museum and also a nursing 658 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: home for Comfort Station survivors, and one of them in 659 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,040 Speaker 1: told the BBC, we're all very old and we're dying 660 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,200 Speaker 1: each year, one by one. Historically speaking, the war might 661 00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,759 Speaker 1: have stopped, but for us it's still going on. It 662 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,839 Speaker 1: never ended. We want the Japanese emperor to come here, 663 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,279 Speaker 1: kneel before us and apologize sincerely. But I think the 664 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:09,799 Speaker 1: Japanese are just waiting for us to die, and I 665 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,600 Speaker 1: think that's why we have to make sure that well, 666 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously they are going to die at some point, 667 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:19,160 Speaker 1: but we can't let the history of what happened to 668 00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:23,319 Speaker 1: them die. Yeah, we absolutely can't let the history be 669 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:28,760 Speaker 1: buried with them. And we can't, I mean, we can't 670 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:33,760 Speaker 1: let people off the hook just because there are members 671 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,839 Speaker 1: of the military of whatever era, of whatever country. Yeah, 672 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it just kind of turned to turn a 673 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,760 Speaker 1: blind eye because it's a hard thing to talk about. 674 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: Who wants to think about such an atrocity, but we 675 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:49,399 Speaker 1: have to. And I think that part of what has 676 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,440 Speaker 1: let people turn a blind eye, whether it is comfort 677 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:57,759 Speaker 1: women in Asia or whether it's forced prostitution anywhere, is 678 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:03,440 Speaker 1: just really awful and twisted ideas about women as objects 679 00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,960 Speaker 1: and women's sexuality and men just having a right to 680 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:13,480 Speaker 1: women's bodies, especially in wartime. Rape is an act of terrorism, 681 00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:17,399 Speaker 1: and this system is really no different. Yeah, I mean, 682 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,359 Speaker 1: and hinged to that as well, But there's the whole 683 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:23,400 Speaker 1: disbelief of women about what they say happened to their bodies. 684 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:28,080 Speaker 1: Um So, listeners, now we want to hear from you. 685 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:32,320 Speaker 1: I mean, we were especially curious to hear from Korean 686 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:38,000 Speaker 1: and Japanese listeners about this because obviously we're talking about 687 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,759 Speaker 1: this from an extremely Western American point of view. Um So, 688 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,879 Speaker 1: we would really like to get more insight into all 689 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,920 Speaker 1: of this and sort of the tone and the feelings 690 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:54,160 Speaker 1: within these communities about what happened during World War two 691 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,480 Speaker 1: and even afterwards. So mom S of It house o 692 00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,120 Speaker 1: works dot com is our email address. You can tweet 693 00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,520 Speaker 1: us at mom Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook, and 694 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:05,520 Speaker 1: we've got a couple of messages to share with you 695 00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:11,839 Speaker 1: right now. Okay, well, I have a letter here from 696 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:17,600 Speaker 1: Victoria in response to our sexual harassment history episode. Victoria says, first, 697 00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,719 Speaker 1: thank you as usual for not forgetting to mention us 698 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,320 Speaker 1: trans women and how these issues can often affect or 699 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,960 Speaker 1: not affect us. This episode was very timely. I came 700 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,400 Speaker 1: out as transgender and started living full time as a 701 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,239 Speaker 1: woman last December at thirty seven years old, and I 702 00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,520 Speaker 1: think I experienced my first instance of sexual harassment last 703 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,279 Speaker 1: week by another woman, the CEO of our company. It 704 00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,600 Speaker 1: was great to hear you talking about this issue. This 705 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 1: isn't something I ever imagined i'd be dealing with, and 706 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,520 Speaker 1: I haven't had the experience of growing up as a girl, 707 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,319 Speaker 1: and my mom never talked to me about this kind 708 00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,840 Speaker 1: of thing. I'm struggling not to blame myself. I'm struggling 709 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,880 Speaker 1: to convince myself that this is really happening. I'm struggling 710 00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,239 Speaker 1: to convince myself that even though this is something many 711 00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:02,000 Speaker 1: women go through, that doesn't get okay. Right now, I'm 712 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,200 Speaker 1: just struggling to make it through the day without crying. 713 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,799 Speaker 1: Thank you for talking about this, and I'd love to 714 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,160 Speaker 1: hear from any other transgender women who have gone through 715 00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,879 Speaker 1: their first experience with sexual harassment. Keep up the great work. Well. 716 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,359 Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing your story of Victoria. And I've 717 00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,240 Speaker 1: got a letter here from Kimberly also about the sexual 718 00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:23,400 Speaker 1: harassment episode in which we broke down um where sexual 719 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,840 Speaker 1: harassment is most prevalent like industry wise, and arts and 720 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,080 Speaker 1: entertainment was one of them. So Kimberly wrote in saying 721 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,320 Speaker 1: I wanted to shed a little light on your surprise 722 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,640 Speaker 1: at arts entertainment being fields with high rates of reported 723 00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,319 Speaker 1: sexual harassment. I'm an audio engineer for live theater and 724 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,760 Speaker 1: have worked in the film, television, and music industry. While 725 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,239 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, I'm sure dealing with clients and customers 726 00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,600 Speaker 1: can't expose folks with some pretty nasty behavior, it's also 727 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,320 Speaker 1: worthwhile to note that women only make up a tiny 728 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,640 Speaker 1: fraction of the crew and positions of creative control, and 729 00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:58,040 Speaker 1: the plenty of harassment comes from our coworkers. My own 730 00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:03,040 Speaker 1: field is almost male and often pretty rough technical crews 731 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,120 Speaker 1: are a fairly blue collar lot, and the environment isn't 732 00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:10,400 Speaker 1: unlike working with team stories iron workers or longshoreman. Sexism 733 00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:14,040 Speaker 1: and sexual harassment are pretty rampant. Men also occupy the 734 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,279 Speaker 1: majority of director and producer roles. As you mentioned, the 735 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,840 Speaker 1: casting couch is a reality, but once they get a 736 00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,160 Speaker 1: foot in the door, women, artists and technicians are subject 737 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,680 Speaker 1: to threats of professional repercussion if they don't respond favorably 738 00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:31,319 Speaker 1: to their supervisor's sexual advances. Kesh's recent story comes to 739 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,960 Speaker 1: mind of how producers can abuse their artists. The vulnerability 740 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,719 Speaker 1: of folks to sexual harassment in arts and entertainment is 741 00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,200 Speaker 1: seriously compounded by the lack of structure to report problems 742 00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,640 Speaker 1: to Lots of production companies are either too small to 743 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,000 Speaker 1: have HR or don't make it available to their employees, 744 00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:52,120 Speaker 1: who are mostly freelance contractors. Plus, there's hardly any time 745 00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:55,800 Speaker 1: to seek recourse when production companies form LLCs that only 746 00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,799 Speaker 1: exists for the length of the gig. By the time 747 00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:02,000 Speaker 1: and investigation gets ar did, the show has wrapped. It 748 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:03,759 Speaker 1: can be pretty tough out here, but I think it's 749 00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,560 Speaker 1: getting better. I see more and more women in my 750 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:10,040 Speaker 1: own little field of live audio every year and lots 751 00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,600 Speaker 1: of big names celebrities are coming forward to share their 752 00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,720 Speaker 1: stories about the discrimination and harassment women face and show biz. 753 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,520 Speaker 1: I hope that sheds a little light on things well, 754 00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:23,200 Speaker 1: absolutely does, Kimberly, and thank you so much, and thanks 755 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,760 Speaker 1: to all of you who have written into us. Mom 756 00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,640 Speaker 1: Stuff at how stuff works dot com is our email 757 00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,239 Speaker 1: address and for links all of our social media as 758 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,839 Speaker 1: well as all of our blogs, videos and podcasts with 759 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:38,600 Speaker 1: our resources. So you can learn more about Japan's comfort women, 760 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:45,960 Speaker 1: head on over to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com. 761 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,560 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit 762 00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:57,440 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com.