1 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: I believe the purpose late business has to be more 2 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: aspirational and bold in thinking than being driven by Excel 3 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: shots and numbers. If purpose led businesses apply logic, then 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: we don't go anywhere. The purpose led business have to 5 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: be driven by passion. Welcome to Calling Bullshit, the podcast 6 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: about purpose washing, the gap between what companies say they 7 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,279 Speaker 1: stand for and what they actually do, and what they 8 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: would need to change to practice what they preach. I'm 9 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: your host Time Autigue, and I've spent over a decade 10 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: helping companies defind what they stand for their purpose and 11 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: then help them to use that purpose to drive transformation 12 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: throughout their business. In this special episode, we're sharing a 13 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: positive case study where we talk with the CEO of 14 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: a purpose led company who we think is getting it right. Today, 15 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: I'm speaking with a Neil Kumar, CEO of Samunati. He 16 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: shares how humble beginnings eventually led him to refinance his 17 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: home in order to start what would become India's largest 18 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:29,559 Speaker 1: agricultural enterprise. Farming is a notoriously difficult profession, high risk 19 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: and often low reward. Harvests are subject to unpredictable factors 20 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: like climate and weather and access to capital tends to 21 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: be limited, and for families who grow and sell crops 22 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: on a small scale, known as smallholder farmers, things get 23 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: even more daunting. Their size prevents them from buying equipment 24 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: in bulk, and when you're paying retail prices for seeds 25 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: and fertilizer, machinery and pesticides, things add up fast. Most 26 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: don't even grow enough to make their money back. In India, 27 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people are familiar with this struggle. Agriculture 28 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: supports roughly two thirds of the one point six billion 29 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: person population, and the majority of the growers are tenant farmers, 30 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: meaning they don't even own the land they work on. 31 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: You think it's hard to get a mortgage in the 32 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,679 Speaker 1: United States, try getting a loan for a new tractor 33 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: as a tenant farmer in India, banks won't even consider 34 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: you unless you own land, so many farmers buy supplies 35 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: on credit, further raising their overall operating costs and squeezing 36 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: their margins even more. To complicate matters further, often farmers 37 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: are unbanked, which means even if they do receive a loan, 38 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 1: they get the whole lump sum in cash, and when 39 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: life happens, the money is used for other household needs. 40 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: A lot of them wind up owing money that they 41 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: can't pay back. This economic struggle for farmers can become overwhelming. 42 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: In India saw an average of twenty eight farmer suicides 43 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: a day. But one company is working to change this 44 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: system from the inside, India's largest agritec enterprise, Samonati. Their 45 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: purpose is to create better markets for smallholder farmers across 46 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: every state in India. They began pursuing this purpose in 47 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: six by issuing loans designed specifically for small farmers, but 48 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: they soon realized they needed to be more involved to 49 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: make a lasting impact. Today, the company acts as an 50 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: intermediary between everyone in the agricultural ecosystem, banks, seed suppliers, 51 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: old sailers, and small farmers. Getting this all done is complicated, 52 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: so Samonati takes a three pronged approach. First, they focus 53 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: on aggregation. They facilitate the formation of farmer producer organizations 54 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: f pos or co ops, where individual farmers with similar 55 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: needs can use collective bargaining power to access better prices 56 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: and better markets. Currently, Salmonatti has four thousand fp os 57 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: in their network, each made up of roughly three to 58 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: five hundred individual farmers. Second, they facilitate market linkages, connecting 59 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: farmers directly with the markets that will give them the 60 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: highest prices or market share. They also lend farmers the 61 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: money they need to get things done, offering multiple types 62 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: of loans, all structured with farming households in mind. And third, 63 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: they offer advisory services, helping their customers transition to more 64 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: sustainable methods, create business plans and implement standard operating procedures. 65 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: They call their strategy OMLA A m l A, and 66 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: it's highly effective. Today, Samonati is valued at north of 67 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: a billion dollars and has touched the lives of seven 68 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 1: million farmers and counting. Their current goal is to impact 69 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: one in every four farmers across the entire country by 70 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: seven The mastermind behind this organization is my guest today, 71 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: Samonati CEO Anil Kumar. He tells us how they weave 72 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: the needs of farmers directly into the fabric of everything 73 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: they do and emphasizes the importance of leading with heart. 74 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: A link to the transcript of the conversation you're about 75 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: to hear is in our show notes or can also 76 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: be found at Calling Bullshit podcast dot com. More with 77 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: a Neil Kumar. Right after the break, Folks, I am 78 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: very excited to introduce the founder and CEO of Samunari, 79 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: Anil Kumar. An thank you for being here and welcome 80 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: to calling Bullshit. Thank you, Tie. It's my privilege as 81 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: well to be part of this program. So let's start 82 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: right at the beginning. Can you talk a little bit 83 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: about where you're from and what your life was like 84 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: growing up in India. Well, I'm a you know, I'm 85 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: a small town boy, so to say. I'm born in 86 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: a place called Kolar, which is known for its gold fields, 87 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: and brought up in places that are close by called 88 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: Anantapur and Bari. Both belong to two different states. So 89 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: bad is part of Karnataka and natur is part of 90 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: and So what that meant for me is I grew 91 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: up in a confluence of two different languages. Both became 92 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: integral to my growing up. So schooling happened there and 93 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: then I joined mechanical engineering as an eighteen year old boy. 94 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: And during my plus two holidays, I had taken the 95 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: Banking Services Recruitment Board exam and I was selected to 96 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: a government bank called Canada Bank. So I I joined 97 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: Kendra Bank as typist come clerk in a rural branch 98 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: of Kenadra Bank, and that's how my baptism into banking 99 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: happened in the rural and agree space. Little did I 100 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: realize what all would manifest over the next thirty years 101 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: of my life in banking. But that's how my journey 102 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: started as a professional. And just just to draw a 103 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: line under something, because I found this very inspiring. You 104 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: come from very beginnings and you've come very for being 105 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: the CEO of, you know, an extremely successful organization today. 106 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: So I wonder if you could just talk a little 107 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: bit about what your experience was like growing up in 108 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: a lower middle class Indian family. Well, we are a 109 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: family of six. I have three elder siblings, all sisters, 110 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: and as a professional, my father used to learn quite handsomely. 111 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: But when I was eight, he lost his job and 112 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: the family crashed landed, so to say, on the economic ladder. 113 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: And that's when my mother took over the charge of 114 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: the house and then she started building the entire family 115 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: from the scratch. So I got to learn a lot 116 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: in this transition of building rebuilding, so to say. Because 117 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: people around us we're all doing well. They were all 118 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: neighbors when we were doing well, but you know, when 119 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: we were not doing well, my mother stitched the entire 120 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: ecosystem to support our family through engagement with the community, 121 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: her engagement with the neighbors. So I realized what is 122 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 1: social capital. Each of our sisters started working when they 123 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: turned eighteen. But the entire family was spinning their hopes 124 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: on me because I was the only male child in 125 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: the family and they wanted me to know to redeem 126 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: the entire family. It was tough. There were days that 127 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 1: I still remember where we did not have even a 128 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: penny at home and I made it a point to 129 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: record that day in my head. And so then it 130 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: sounds like you made your way into the banking business 131 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: with a focus on agricultural banking or banking for the 132 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: agricultural industry. Is that correct? Actually? No, I I was 133 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: posted in a rural branch, which meant it is agriculture 134 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: and rural. But I was a typist come cluck, you know, 135 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: and and banks in India usually post youngsters in rural areas. 136 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: So it is my good fortune that my baptism to 137 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: bank thing happened in an area that would become so 138 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: relevant to my journey. I have an instinct that because 139 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: of your background and because of your experience working in 140 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: banking in a rural environment, you have an empathy for 141 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: small family farmers in a way you know the word, 142 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: You understand them and their lives better than a typical 143 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: banking person would. Would you agree with that absolutely? In fact, 144 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why this entire space looks so 145 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: home natural for me is because I have been there. 146 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: I have lived that life of challenges from access to 147 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: markets and challenges that the external environment presents you on 148 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: which you have you have no control on. I have 149 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: lived that for about thirteen years of my you know, 150 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 1: my life, from the age of seven to about eighteen 151 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: eleven years. Okay, So for listen orso who might be 152 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: unfamiliar with the agriculture industry in India, can you just 153 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: paint a picture of what that industry looks like. What 154 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: are the major challenges that Indian farmers face today? Well, 155 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: on the statistics diamension Tai, agriculture constitutes about twenty percent 156 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 1: of the country's GDP right while about sixty of the 157 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: population is either directly or indirectly dependent on agriculture, which 158 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: means there is a vast majority of population dependent on 159 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 1: agriculture in that a significant portion is small holder farmers 160 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: and farmers who are owning less than two hectares of land. Uh. 161 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: And there is another large majority of people who take 162 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 1: land on lease and our tenant farmers. So if you 163 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: combine the tenant farmers and you know smallholder farmers, that 164 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: construts about the total total farmers into farming. AH. Majority 165 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: of formal financial institutions are still not in the reach 166 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: for these smallholder farmers on account of not being able 167 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: to fulfill the criteria that the smallholder farmers are supposed 168 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: to for accessing the farmal financial institutions are The definition 169 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 1: of a farmer is the one who owns land, not 170 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: necessarily the one who does farming, and this requirement of 171 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: an ownership has fostered the fragmentation further. UH. Say, if 172 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: my father had nine hectares of land and we are 173 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: three brothers, for for me to avail of a loan 174 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: from a farmal financial institution, the land has to be 175 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: in my name, which means my father has to split 176 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: this into three and give me the three hectares. And 177 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: if I happened, if I happen to have another three boys, 178 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: I will have to split that into three. So within 179 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: two generals shells, the nine hectors will become one hector. 180 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: Right second, from a sector perspective, agriculture is a huge sector. 181 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's massive in terms of scale and scope. 182 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: So let us look at what are the major categories 183 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: in agriculture. And now you have inputs as a category 184 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: where everything that goes into cultivation as a process. This 185 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: includes the seats, includes crop protection chemicals, and it includes 186 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: the farm equipment. Now you have the output where the 187 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: post harvest services happen, whether it is sale our store 188 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: and sell, our store, process and sell what what have you. 189 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: Then you have financial services for this. Then you have 190 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: the advisory services. Then you have the research institutions. Now 191 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: if you look at each of them, each of these 192 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 1: categories are massive. Again, you know, the inputs have seeds 193 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: double click on CITs. Then you have you know, the 194 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: genetically modified hybrid seats, then open pollinated seats and you 195 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: then double click on them. You have individual companies around that. 196 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: Right now. On the crop protection chemicals, you have fertilizers 197 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: which facilitate the growth, and you have you know, pesticides 198 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: and herbicides which kill They both are again two different categories. 199 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: You don't have the same company which works on both 200 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 1: sides and double click on that. Then you have individual 201 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: manufacturers for each of these products fum equipment, you have 202 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: minor farm equipment and major you know, major ones like 203 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: tractor and the treasure and these kinds of things. There 204 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: are two different entities. You know, you have to click 205 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: on that again. All of these tie would want to 206 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: reach out to these smallholder farmer on their own, and 207 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: the smallholder farmer has less than two hectors of land. 208 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: How they engaged. Now you know that was what inspired 209 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: us to get into this collectivization which I will talk later. 210 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: But the context is smallholder farmer not being able to 211 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: engage with the ecosystem on on the on the dimension 212 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: of strength, but on the dimension of being at the 213 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: receiving end. Right, So very fragmented, very agmented. The market 214 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: is fragmented, landholding is fragmented. Each of these. Again, when 215 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: a farmer goes to buy their inputs, they have to 216 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: go to the retail most part of the value chain 217 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: because that's what he can afford or she can afford. 218 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: So the manufacturer, dealer, distributor retailer is where the farmer 219 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: would go and when they buy their small quantities, that 220 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: price is loaded of all the layers of the product 221 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: moving into the farmer, provided the farmer has cash. If 222 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: it is on credit, then the cost of credit also 223 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: gets loaded on it. M hm. Now then what happens 224 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: soon after harvest? Most of these farmers, on account of 225 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: being smallholder farmers don't have the capability are infrastructure to 226 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: to take the produce two larger markets to sell, because 227 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: you need to have a threshold volume of commodity right 228 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: because the cost of transportation would kill if you have 229 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: a small quantum and you have to hire a large truck. 230 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: So the local large farmers are local aggregators, would basically 231 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: buy out the produce from the farmers they aggregate and 232 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: then they take it to the next market to sell, 233 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: which means there is hardly any scope for primary processing 234 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: our storage because they need liquidity immediately. So if you 235 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: just combine these two dimensions, I think farmer is the 236 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: only person who buys retail sales sales whole sale. Yeah, 237 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: I think that's a great insight, which is like the 238 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: entire margin is squeezed. Yeah, yeah, very tough. You hardly 239 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: get anything for your for your output. So so let's 240 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: let's pivot then to to Samonati and again just for 241 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: listeners benefit, what does the name Samonati mean? Samon Nati 242 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: is a Sanskrit word. It's a combination of two words, 243 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: you know, samma and nati. Sama is collective, all encompassing everyone. 244 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: Unnati is growth, prosperity and elevation. So the word someone 245 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: that he meets collective growth, collective prosperity, and collective elevation. 246 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: It's a great name. So I'd love to hear the 247 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: story of what made you decide to start it and 248 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 1: a little bit about what seminari does. So first I'll 249 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: tell you what someone that doesn't then come to you 250 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: on how how happened? Because it happened accepually, I would 251 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: say someone that is a value chain enabler. It's an 252 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: open agree network in the agree value chain space, engaging 253 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: with the entire spectrum of agriculture players, starting from the 254 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: input manufacturers to the farmer collectives, to the farmers, to 255 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: the output aggregators all the way to the large processes. 256 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: You know, we are present in the entire value chain 257 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: with the principal expectation and division that how do we 258 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: make markets work for smallholder farmers Because in the narrative 259 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: that I gave you of how the markets are fragmented, 260 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 1: most of these markets are working off the farmer. Can 261 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: we change the narrative and bring in a dimension of 262 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: making markets work for smallholder farmers? Right? The levers that 263 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: we believe would facilitate this journey are one, increasing the 264 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: throughput in the agree value chains. And also how do 265 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: we bring in the dimension of making the smallholder farmer 266 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: access the larger agree ecosystem and making the agree ecosystem 267 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: access the last mile through a digital connector that someone 268 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,959 Speaker 1: that this building in. So there are three filters that 269 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: we look at in terms of how do we engage 270 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: with the players in the agriculture ecosystem. One is the 271 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: vision of making markets work on smallholder farmers by making 272 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: the agreevolity chains operate at higher equiligreeument increasing the throughput 273 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: with all the players, which also means we work with 274 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: everyone right and then thereby harmonized the engagement between the 275 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: farmer and the agree ecosystem. Right, these are the three 276 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: things that we are working towards, and at this point 277 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: in time, we are present in about twenty three states 278 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: in the country on the FPO gateway that we have 279 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 1: of which is the entry point for all the farmer 280 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: collectives which you are referred to as FPOs. We have 281 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 1: about four thousand such apos and an FPO could you 282 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 1: could you unpack that for us? What is an fpopo 283 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: is a farmer producer organization. It's like a cooperative, it's 284 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: like a collective right. It is member owned, member operated, 285 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: and about you know, three to five farmers come together 286 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: to be part of an FPO, to be of a 287 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: farmer collective. Now, that is where they unlock their collective 288 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: bargaining power right, and that unlocking of collective bargaining power 289 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: is how we engage with them in a framework that 290 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: we referred to as ARMA approach Aggregation, market linkage and 291 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: Advisory services and ARMLA is also Tai is also Indian gooseberry. 292 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: It is the only fruit which has all the six days, 293 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: including tart. That's very interesting, so we look at it 294 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: is when a set of people doing the same economic 295 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: activity come together, their requirements are homogeneous. Their requirements are similar. 296 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: If a hundred sugarcane farmers come together, their requirements are similar. 297 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: When three D patty growing farmers come together, their requirements 298 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 1: are similar in terms of what they need to buy 299 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: and what side services they need to access. Now, this 300 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: aggregation is meaningful only when there are market linkages. Right 301 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 1: at the moment you bring in market linkages, two things 302 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: would come into picture. One, your local retailer may not 303 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: have the kind of quantity that you require at an 304 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: aggregated level, and hence as a FPU, as a collective, 305 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: you may want to go one or two steps above, right, 306 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: which also means that the cost of your procurement would 307 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: come down, because now you are you are jumping to 308 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: three levels above. But it also means is you need 309 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: to have access to liquidity because in the retail most part, 310 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 1: when you went as an individual farmer, you had that 311 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: social capital to take inputs on credit. But now in 312 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: in in the aggregated one, you are not an entity 313 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: that is known. You are not an individual, it is 314 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: a collective on hence you will not be able to 315 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: get this inputs on credit. You have to put cash 316 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: on the table. Right. This is another example I think 317 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 1: of of just real empathy, right that a farm family 318 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: is a family, not just a farmer. And so the 319 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 1: way that the loans were structured in the past. I 320 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: think you you refer to something called a bullet loan 321 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: that a traditional bank would make to a farmer, and 322 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: there was downside to that form of of loan. I 323 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: wonder if you could just explain that like sort of 324 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: the way that you changed the way money is being 325 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: made available to smallholder farmers. So there are two ways 326 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: of engaging with the smallholder farmer. One is actor, which 327 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: is the household in the farmer and the actor the 328 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: farming right in in agriculture, the actor and activity are intertwined. 329 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: You know, there are two sides of the same coin. Yes, 330 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: and you cannot dealnk yourself from the actor and engage 331 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: only in the activity because it's a household enterprise. The 332 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: entire household is engaged in the activity. So the way 333 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: most of the traditional lending models focus on is hey, 334 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: I would look at your activity in isolation and structure 335 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: alone are a financial product to not to deliver for 336 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: the activity, and the actor will have to manage, you know, 337 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: the actor's cash flows that household to suit the activities requirements. 338 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: Now and two these are smaller loans and there is 339 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: also the providers opics that comes into picture in terms 340 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: of how do I engage on this product. If you 341 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: take farming as an activity, the way cash flows accrew 342 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: are you invest invest invest are best right? In other words, 343 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: you put smaller moneys over a period and you get 344 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: the entire written when you harvest. So the best way 345 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: to engage in a financial structure for that is, you know, 346 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: you disperse, disperse, disburse, and ask for repayment. Right, that 347 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: would mean multiple disbursements for a smaller loan, which means 348 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: more opects on the provider side. So what providers usually 349 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: do are used to do now technologies helping them to 350 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: structure it differently is to give you know, the entire 351 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: money in one go and expect these smallholder farmers to 352 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: keep aside the money and keep using it at regular 353 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: intervals for the activities, so that the providers opex does 354 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 1: not get inflated on account of multiple transactions for a 355 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: small loan. But what happens in reality is given the 356 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: multiple demands on the corpus, it gets consumed for something 357 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: else you know, some other family need, right okay, And 358 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: and it usually results in either they're compromising on one 359 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: or two steps in the cultivation, are going for higher 360 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: cost liquidity options. Yes, take care of those one or 361 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: two dimensions in cultivation, both of which have a negative 362 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: impact on the income because if you compromise on one 363 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: or two steps in the cultivation you were, ield gets reduced. Sure, 364 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: you know, you you take higher cost borrowing, then you 365 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: have to repay that and your income gets reduced to 366 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: that extent. Right, So the best way to engage is 367 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: engage with the actor as a household and then provide 368 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: multiple requirements. And the household also requests insurance. The household 369 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: also requires, you know, liquidity support during cultivation. The household 370 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: also requires uh, you know, other other financial products otherwise 371 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: reservices on and so forth. So you saw this problem 372 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: and other problems like it, and obviously you saw some 373 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: kind of an opportunity. But I just love to hear 374 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: made you decide to make the leap, because becoming an 375 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 1: entrepreneur is non trivial decision in one's career. I realized 376 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: the enormity of it now, but when the addition was made, 377 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: it felt natural. I have never done farming, but the 378 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: way I took to agriculture was like fish taken to order. 379 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: So on a light or not, I keep telling, maybe 380 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: I would have been a cow buffalo in my previous life. 381 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: That's why it's so natural. Or maybe I would have 382 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 1: been a farmer if I can be gentle to myself. 383 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: Very funny. So you know from Canada Bank, I moved 384 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: to a bank and continue my studies and then within 385 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: a bank. In two thousands four, I took a sabbatical 386 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: went to Money lad to do my master's. Is when 387 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: I got inspired by the financial inclusion and Dr Mohammed 388 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: Uns's life and then I thought, hey, I have got 389 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: so much of exposure. God has been kind to give 390 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: this exposure of the rural and agree to me, why 391 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 1: why don't I do something in agriculture. Is what made 392 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: me to get into the Rural micro banking and re 393 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: business group of iss A Bank. Two years and I 394 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: is a bank and then the bank deput a new 395 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: initiative called I f M a trust and I was 396 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: given the responsibility of setting up a local financial institution 397 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: model which designed and deployed an in depth engagement with 398 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: a household. So this actor dimension the household dimension and 399 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: as part of that engagement with the household through a 400 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: branch let approach, we used to do the asset liability 401 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: income expenditure of the household in a scientific manner, in 402 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: a structure that is called wealth management approach for low 403 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: income households because usually wealth management is associated with people 404 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: who have who are wealthy, right, but one decision going 405 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: wrong in the life of a low income household would 406 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,360 Speaker 1: would would be a disaster, right, so it is much 407 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 1: more critical for them to manage their wealth. And hence 408 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: we as providers should have a framework of managing their 409 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: wealth because a two D expenditure could be a rounding 410 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: of error for a wealthy individual, but this could be 411 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: a life changing when they could push them into party 412 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: back to poverty. So that that is a kind of 413 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: understanding of the household that we did for about seven 414 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: and a half years. Whereas a group CEO, we had 415 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: set up about two branches, We had about eleven hundred 416 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: people in this initiative. We had one point a million 417 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 1: insurance policies. All of that the facult of this initiative, 418 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: I started realizing that while an in depth understanding of 419 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: the household is important, the household is not operating in vacuum. 420 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: The household is operating in an ecosystem, and that ecosystem 421 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: is dependent on one or two major agree value change. 422 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: So if you have to engage with the household in 423 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 1: a constructive manner, you have to go one or two 424 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: levels above because a volatality of that value chain would 425 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: have an impact on the household household incomes because their 426 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: intertwined that there is a positive correlation between both of them. 427 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,479 Speaker 1: Right is when the idea of someone that they as 428 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: a value and enabled to germinated. That's the idea came in. 429 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: And then I said, why not I take a leap 430 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: of faith because I have had the benefit of setting 431 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: up an entity from scratch, understanding the space, and my 432 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: wife permitted me to take the entrepreneurial plunge. So I 433 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: took a loan on my house and my entire provident 434 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: money from my previous employer and someone that they started 435 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: as as a as a journey as an entitive. As 436 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: you rightly said, now I feel how did it make 437 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: such a big leap of faith? But at that point 438 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: in time time it felt natural. If natural, that's great. 439 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: So when you talk about samonati and its purpose, how 440 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: do you talk about it? How do you artaiculate the 441 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: purpose of samonati? So there are two dimensions of how 442 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: you know, we engage while the core purpose remains markets 443 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: working for smallholder farmers. That is the you know, the 444 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: reason for our existence. So we thought, while our goal 445 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: is to impact smallholder farmers, the way to achieve it 446 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: is through the value and so we engage with agree enterprises. 447 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: We engage with the processors, We engage with the small 448 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: time dealers, distributors, we engage all the way with multinational 449 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: procurement agencies. Everyone. We are working with the entire value chain, 450 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: and hence you also see in our in our numbers 451 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: and balance sheet, there is a significant portion that is 452 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: with the agree enterprises, not to the smallholder farmers, not 453 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: with their collectives. But that that is the you know, 454 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: that is the highway that we are building so that 455 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,959 Speaker 1: we bring the demand side of the value chain towards 456 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: the supply side. Right, and how old is the company? 457 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: When did you found it? It was founded in two 458 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: November is when we started our journey. We got our 459 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:03,479 Speaker 1: first investor in two thousand fifteen. So once we started lending, 460 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: that happened in May two sixteen, So I would say 461 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: scaled operations happened from May two sixteen onwards, and within 462 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: one and a half years of that we realized that 463 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: in agriculture the best way to engage with the players 464 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: is by being an internal player, by being a partner, 465 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: not just being a lender on the fringes. An internal 466 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: in the valuation is embedded in the activity, you know, 467 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: is part of the highs and lows of what happens 468 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: in the value. An external player in the valuation is 469 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: someone who is sitting on the fringes, on the edges 470 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: and takes collateral and property as as security to protect, 471 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: but is not part of the activity per se. Yes. 472 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: So we also looked at the entire informal markets in agriculture. 473 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: Most of them are internal players. The ones who are 474 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: lending in agriculture were actually ones who are part of 475 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: the agree ecosystem. So that's when we got into market 476 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: linkages and set up someone at Thiago as a subsidiary. 477 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: Within one and a half years and customers were talking 478 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: about market linkage as being equally important, if not less, 479 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: you know, in addition to the financial services. Finance is important, 480 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: but not sufficient. Finance is a lubricant, it can facilitate 481 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: things happen. It cannot be the end. It is a 482 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:21,719 Speaker 1: means right. Market linkages are much more critical. Very interesting. Yeah, 483 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: and can you describe the dimensions of the business today? 484 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: How big have you grown so far? So between both 485 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: these engines, we have done about one point seven billion 486 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: dollars of put you know, finances, about sixty of it 487 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: is the commerce side, and the aspiration is how do 488 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: we take it to about fifteen billion dollars in the 489 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: next five years. Wow, that's incredible. What we're also looking 490 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: at is in these four thousand far more collectives that 491 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: we work with on the FBO gate where they're collective 492 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: membership is in the range of about seven mill and 493 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: smallholder Farmers has about hundred million smallholder families, So how 494 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: can we touch one every four farming families in the 495 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: next five years is the goal that we are pursuing, 496 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: so that we are about this cohort, this universe and 497 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: touching does not mean we lend to them or buy 498 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: from them because at a collective level time we also 499 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: engage in their institution building. We do their digitization, we 500 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: build their teams, we train them on the business activity. 501 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: We we also conduct training programs for the CEOs, We 502 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: bring in the spies for the risk and audit framework. 503 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: All all these are not charged we do it from 504 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: two dimensions. Because one dimension is as a lender, I 505 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: am as strong as my borrower. Right, if the borrower 506 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: is strong, is when I get my money back. Second, 507 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: I can only grow if my partner is strong. So 508 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: by building capability in them as an institution, they're able 509 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: to grow, gets accentuate it, and hence I will grow 510 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: with them. Yes, which is what collective growth is, which 511 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: is what someone that is. Yeah. When I hear you 512 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: say those words, they sound extremely obvious, but it's also 513 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: if you look around the business world, how rarely those 514 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: words are practiced in business. It makes me reflect that 515 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: if we could foster more of that kind of thinking 516 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: in business, particularly in the States, the better off people 517 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: would be. Because you know, in and I know you 518 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: know this, in traditional capitalism, it's very I guess the 519 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: phrase here would be dog eat dog, or there are 520 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: winners and losers, And this idea of building an ecosystem 521 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: where there is collective success is very rarely practiced, I 522 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: would say in traditional capitalism. It's it's perhaps also a 523 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: dimension of the sector where we are operating. You know, 524 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: agriculture is humongously large, uh humorously large that we don't 525 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: need to compete and Diffe can just borrow the phrase 526 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: it's it's like a blue ocean. You know, you are 527 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: insignificant as a player in relation to the potential of 528 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: the sector. So I keep saying, even after five years 529 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,399 Speaker 1: someone at from a quantum perspective, fifteen billion is still 530 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: a rounding of error. That's why we also engage with 531 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: large number of AGREE startups and ecosystem players, because there 532 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: is so much to do. Collectively, we work with about 533 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: three to four hundred startups in the AGREE space in 534 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: terms of being their lender, you know, in terms of 535 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: giving our distribution network to them for their proof of 536 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 1: concept and then structuring their product for our customers, whether 537 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: it is quality of saying, or whether it is storage, 538 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: or whether it is drone monitoring or satellite imagery, what 539 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: have you. Yes, collaborate and collaborate. And so in the States, 540 00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: my observation would be there used to be many, many 541 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: small family farms here also, and we took a very 542 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: different path. It appears that we decided to actually aggregate 543 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: at the ownership level. And so there are these giant 544 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: agriculture businesses, these giant industrial farming operations in the States, 545 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: and I guess. I have a couple of questions underneath 546 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: that observation. One is why has that not happened in India? 547 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,399 Speaker 1: In other words, it feels to me like you got 548 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 1: to the market just in time to make sure that 549 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: that actually and your focus on helping small family farmers 550 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: go it alone and continue to be independent has been 551 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 1: a real aspect of your success. But has there been 552 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 1: a movement to aggregate farmers to buy out, buy up 553 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,839 Speaker 1: all the farmers in India? The dimension of collectivization has 554 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 1: been around for centuries in India. Yeah. Uh, the forms 555 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: have changed, but the principle of collectivization has remained. I 556 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,879 Speaker 1: agree with you on the timing part, because a lot 557 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: of things are coming together. One is the dimension of technology. 558 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: India is a large country with a huge population and 559 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: the majority of them remote and infrastructure was a challenge. 560 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: Now you see last last you know, ten years, the 561 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: amount of development that has happened on the physical infrastructure 562 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: like roads and rails and transportation, on the communication infrastructure 563 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: in terms of the optic fiber and the wireless, and 564 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 1: most importantly the entire smartphone dimension, where the tools that 565 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: are required to bring markets and people closer are available. 566 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: Now number one, right now number two. We stumbled into 567 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: this space in two thou fifteen accidentally, uh, you know, 568 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,720 Speaker 1: into this FPO space collectivization. You know, in two thousand 569 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: nine in the government made an announcement of setting up 570 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 1: additional ten thousand new collectives as an initiative, and that 571 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: gave a shot in the arm for the entire ecosystem. 572 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: Everybody started looking at how do we participate in this dimension. 573 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: So the entire policy framework and the policy environment has 574 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: has got a huge filip in the last ten years. Uh. 575 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: And and one of the things that we are also 576 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 1: witnessing here is the entrepreneurial energy. Many youngsters are now 577 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: taking up to agree startups and acted companies, and the 578 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: entire startup world is abus with youngsters trying out and 579 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,399 Speaker 1: every other day a unicorn germinating from this lot. Then 580 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: there is a lot that is happening, which was not 581 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,359 Speaker 1: the case, you know about thirty years ago when when 582 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: I was a youngster at that point in time, it 583 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,320 Speaker 1: was like you study to get a job, and you 584 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: settled down in a job and you don't take risk. 585 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,919 Speaker 1: The entire dimension on masslows Hiderar cafinets is basic and safe. 586 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: Nobody looked at self actualization and eco center. The the 587 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,720 Speaker 1: millennials are not that, you know, they are ready to explore, 588 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,800 Speaker 1: They're ready to take risk. So many things coming together 589 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: for the Indian agriculture to unlock the potential. And given 590 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: the compounded annual growth rate that we are witnessing, agriculture 591 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 1: would be a trillion dollar dimension in India in the 592 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: next five years. Imagine that that would be fantastic too. 593 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: From a food deficit nation as late as you know, 594 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 1: the late sixties, now India is actually export and the 595 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: largest producer of several lugury products. You know, we are 596 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,919 Speaker 1: a surplus nation which also exports to many countries. And 597 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: ily believe that we can work with many smaller countries 598 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: which don't have landmarks to cultivate, you know, for their 599 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 1: food security. India can play that role. Okay, So there 600 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: is a lot that is coming together that there is 601 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: a confluence of technology, private capital flowing. In mind you 602 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 1: not all is being funded by grants and donations, you know, 603 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:06,720 Speaker 1: they are private capitain flowing and entrepreneurial spirit backing the 604 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: capital and fusion. Mhm. It's this wave that's very inspiring 605 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: and I hope we can learn a bit from the 606 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,879 Speaker 1: Indian culture of cooperation and collaboration and also of your 607 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: success at Samonardi here and apply some of that. How 608 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,360 Speaker 1: do you think about climate change and the potential effects 609 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 1: of that on both the smallholder farmer and on your business. 610 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: So it's it's up very important aspect that we cannot 611 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,319 Speaker 1: ignore anymore. It is moving from I would say an 612 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:45,320 Speaker 1: important bucket to the gent bucket. Uh something that needs attention. 613 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 1: And one of my my key takeaways when I started 614 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,840 Speaker 1: working very closely with farmers is they are aware of 615 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: what is sustainable agriculture time, but how can you and 616 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 1: hold the transition from traditional farming methods which are not 617 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: climate resilient. Are climate smart right? Fertilizers and pesticides pesticide 618 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,359 Speaker 1: also you know flood irrigation to rep irrigation, you know 619 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 1: choices of crops mono crop to multiple crops. All of 620 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 1: that there is awareness. What they don't have is the 621 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 1: hand holding because the vulnerability of a failure would mean 622 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: losing one season, that would mean in a family starving, 623 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: so food on the table to retaining that piece of 624 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,919 Speaker 1: land for the next generation. The choice is obvious. So 625 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 1: the way someone at the end. You know, some of 626 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 1: us who have been part of this journey believe is 627 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,719 Speaker 1: we have to convert this awareness into an action by 628 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,839 Speaker 1: hand holding them and providing a safety net to them 629 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: for the fall. We have to bring in the dimension 630 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 1: of insurance. We have to bring in the dimension of 631 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: market linkages and the forward linkages in the agreegence so 632 00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 1: that the farmer can can confidently walk and say has 633 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,280 Speaker 1: taken baby steps in that. You know, we started working 634 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: with Rubber Bank on a guarantee program along with the 635 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: sc I D and U s DFC on climate smart 636 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 1: agriculture and agro forestry where they provide a guarantee and 637 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 1: we provide the market linkages and finance. Of our overall engagement. 638 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: So far in this one point five billion has been 639 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: climate smart complainant assets. We also have issued green bonds 640 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,360 Speaker 1: now and the idea is how can we bring in 641 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 1: the dimension of green and that again is a category. 642 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 1: The moment you unwrapped that you have prevention of food 643 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:43,359 Speaker 1: laws as one, efficient use of energy as the second one, 644 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:48,239 Speaker 1: and responsible usage of pesticides and fertilizers are chemicals to 645 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 1: retain the vitality of the soil, will retain the vitality 646 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 1: is an aspiration, but how do we infuse life into 647 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,480 Speaker 1: the soil? Yes, and we have a dedicated team of 648 00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:02,359 Speaker 1: about fifteen people working exclusively on that. So it's it's 649 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,800 Speaker 1: not a good to have debate anymore. Climate patterns have changed, 650 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 1: the rainfall patterns have changed, so we need to address it, agreed. 651 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:14,959 Speaker 1: So I want to pivot and just talk a little 652 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 1: bit about you as a leader and hopefully share some 653 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:24,480 Speaker 1: of your wisdom for entrepreneurs or other CEOs of even 654 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,439 Speaker 1: nonpurpose led businesses who are beginning that transition. So all 655 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 1: purpose led businesses tend to have or consider the needs 656 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:39,359 Speaker 1: of many more stakeholders than shareholders alone. And one of 657 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,400 Speaker 1: the things that I wondered about is how do you 658 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 1: think about all of the stakeholders that you are serving 659 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: at at Seminardi as the leader, and do any of 660 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: those stakeholders needs ever come into conflict? Right? So I 661 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,600 Speaker 1: don't know if I have an advice for the new entrepreneurs, 662 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,280 Speaker 1: but all that I would say is I can share 663 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: my journey how how that has been being led by 664 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 1: heart has been a hallmark of my journey so far. 665 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 1: When I look back, you know, as I mentioned the 666 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,399 Speaker 1: decision of setting up someone that by taking a loan 667 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,279 Speaker 1: on my house and my proud and front money at 668 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,160 Speaker 1: the age of forty two did not appear to be 669 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: a crazy decision because everybody were surprised that somebody is 670 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,480 Speaker 1: looking at lending to agriculture, because lending in agriculture was 671 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:36,799 Speaker 1: considered to be an oxymoron. Uh. And then going back 672 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,719 Speaker 1: to my own life, you know, leaving a government job 673 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,759 Speaker 1: and joining a private sector organization. When I was doing well, 674 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,799 Speaker 1: I left there and went to college because I never 675 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 1: had a college life. I was a school dropout, then 676 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,400 Speaker 1: from college dropout, coming back and then being a founder 677 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,720 Speaker 1: of you know, financial inclusion initiative called Life and a Trust. 678 00:43:58,080 --> 00:43:59,840 Speaker 1: And when I was a group CEO, leaving that and 679 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 1: setting up someone that I think there is there is 680 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:08,239 Speaker 1: one significant factor that enabled this journey, which is the 681 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,799 Speaker 1: investment that I made in myself. I got into a 682 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:16,920 Speaker 1: system of meditation when I was twenty one that was 683 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 1: stumbled into a system called artfulness, which is a twenty 684 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,880 Speaker 1: five minute investment that I made every day in meditating 685 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,920 Speaker 1: on myself. In terms of how do I build my life? 686 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,359 Speaker 1: You know, it was not about how do I become rich? 687 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: It was not about how do I compete with others 688 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: at the cost of you know, others. This investment for 689 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:44,920 Speaker 1: about thirty years now has helped me immensely to decide 690 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 1: things based on what the heart says, not what the 691 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,760 Speaker 1: mind says, Because if I had done some financial calculation 692 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 1: and analysis, you know, no, no one would want to 693 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,319 Speaker 1: risk the entire family, you know well, So one thing 694 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 1: that I certainly would tell the fellow entrepreneurs is when 695 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 1: you are a purpose led business, it is important that 696 00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:06,040 Speaker 1: you are anchored inside and that it's important to have 697 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 1: an investment in yourself so that you make right choices 698 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,160 Speaker 1: on the stakeholders dimension. We have been fortunate to have 699 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:17,320 Speaker 1: an aligned set of people all through, starting from Leva, 700 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,839 Speaker 1: which believed in in the story of agriculture, and not 701 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,359 Speaker 1: because somebody spoke to them. They have invested in two 702 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 1: thousand and twelves. They actually went around seeing agriculture and 703 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,680 Speaker 1: the pharma collectivization and two fifteen when I spoke about collectivization, 704 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,400 Speaker 1: it was not new to them and they knew the 705 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,120 Speaker 1: space and why this has so much of potential. So 706 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,960 Speaker 1: an investor who understands the impact spaces an important dimension. 707 00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:47,239 Speaker 1: You know, we got axcel, We've got responsibility, We've got 708 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:53,040 Speaker 1: moving in all of them, fundamentally interested in impact from 709 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 1: a scale dimension with the customer and ambiguously being the 710 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,319 Speaker 1: one that we have to work with. UH are not 711 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,640 Speaker 1: two different vehicles saying, hey, you do business but also 712 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,880 Speaker 1: take care of impact. No, you are in the business 713 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,800 Speaker 1: of impact. Impact defined us. Who is your customer segment? 714 00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:14,440 Speaker 1: Who do you work with? When that is clearly defined, 715 00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,880 Speaker 1: the scale happens because the primary customer segment that you 716 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,680 Speaker 1: are working with is the same for our customers. You 717 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,080 Speaker 1: know that the way we engage with our smallholder farmers 718 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,320 Speaker 1: in their collective. We don't directly work with them. We 719 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,799 Speaker 1: work always with their collective. We don't take collaterals and 720 00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 1: we don't believe in collaterals when engaging with them. There 721 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:34,880 Speaker 1: is a lot of the commitment to them is when 722 00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: you are united, we are committed with you. So light 723 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,680 Speaker 1: or not. I keep telling people that how do you lend? 724 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 1: We say no, we believe, look into the land and 725 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:48,839 Speaker 1: then pray right. Well, it seems to have worked out 726 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,439 Speaker 1: so far. It seems to have worked out so far. 727 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:55,120 Speaker 1: The cost of risk in our business is about two 728 00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:00,320 Speaker 1: that's has come back so prayers do work. But on 729 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,839 Speaker 1: on a serious note, the risk management philosophy and someone 730 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,399 Speaker 1: that is, how do you address the risks of the customers? Yes, 731 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,520 Speaker 1: when their risk is addressed is when my risk is addressed. 732 00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,400 Speaker 1: And the risk of not having the institution capability to 733 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,799 Speaker 1: handle the business is a risk to me, So how 734 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,320 Speaker 1: do I address the business? So the risk management philosophy 735 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,120 Speaker 1: for us is manage the risk of your client, and 736 00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,600 Speaker 1: hence your risk is automatically managed. So that's how we 737 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,279 Speaker 1: engage with the stakeholders. We have a wonderful team at 738 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:34,720 Speaker 1: someone about seven people, you know, all aligned to the purpose. 739 00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,880 Speaker 1: So every meeting that we have, whether it is a 740 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,800 Speaker 1: smaller important meeting or a town hall on zoom these days, 741 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,239 Speaker 1: with all seven hundred people, we start with what we 742 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,560 Speaker 1: call as a connection. We offer a you know, a 743 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,960 Speaker 1: minute prayer, which basically says, all of us pray that 744 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,120 Speaker 1: whatever we discuss, whatever we do, we do for the 745 00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:58,040 Speaker 1: larger good of the humanity. That is a ritual, nothing 746 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,520 Speaker 1: to do with any particular form of eight, religion or cast. 747 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,440 Speaker 1: Those reiterations help us ground it. I love that answer, 748 00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 1: and it also gives me a little view into the 749 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:15,400 Speaker 1: culture seminary, which I appreciate. Do you think that being 750 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:20,160 Speaker 1: purpose led as a as a for profit business means 751 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:25,480 Speaker 1: that you have to have more modest financial goals as 752 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:31,719 Speaker 1: a business? Actually no, if you see the the audocity 753 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,279 Speaker 1: with which we are talking about numbers, I believe the 754 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:38,320 Speaker 1: purpose let business has to be more aspirational and bold 755 00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,920 Speaker 1: in thinking than being driven by Excel sheets and numbers. 756 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,400 Speaker 1: If purpose let businesses apply logic, then we don't go anywhere. 757 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,360 Speaker 1: The purpose let business have to be have to be 758 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:54,319 Speaker 1: driven by passion and passion My view is not is 759 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:59,160 Speaker 1: not limited by numbers. That's that's a beautiful answer. I 760 00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,720 Speaker 1: love it. Okay, So my last question for you today 761 00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,440 Speaker 1: sadly because I'm so enjoying this conversation, but but I 762 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:08,360 Speaker 1: realized that you have a business to run in a 763 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,239 Speaker 1: life to lead, So I calling BS. On this show, 764 00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,480 Speaker 1: we define b S as the gap between word indeed, 765 00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:18,600 Speaker 1: and we have a tool called the B S Scale 766 00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:24,320 Speaker 1: where we rate organizations zero being the best zero BS 767 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:29,000 Speaker 1: and on being the worst total BS. And taking into 768 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,840 Speaker 1: consideration the fact that no business is perfect right, every 769 00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:36,840 Speaker 1: business is on a journey. Where would you rate samin 770 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:41,640 Speaker 1: Atty on that scale? Today? I I would hazard, I 771 00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:46,640 Speaker 1: guess I would say about thirty. We have covered significant 772 00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:50,240 Speaker 1: distance in terms of what do we have to pursue. 773 00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:56,280 Speaker 1: That is direction. Then there is scale that we have demonstrated. 774 00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,880 Speaker 1: The TV is in place, that the tools that we 775 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,200 Speaker 1: have to impact on place. But it is still a 776 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:08,080 Speaker 1: journey and this is a moving post. You know, after years, 777 00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:09,920 Speaker 1: if we talk and I would still say, we are 778 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:14,160 Speaker 1: still about thirty, right, so that aspiration would have changed 779 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,279 Speaker 1: because we are looking at farmer as an actor. I 780 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,560 Speaker 1: would say in activity we have we are zero, but 781 00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,200 Speaker 1: you know, still the household needs to be impacted, so 782 00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:26,879 Speaker 1: I will still have about that. I would say about Yeah, 783 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,240 Speaker 1: you may be even being a little hard on yourself, 784 00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,640 Speaker 1: which is totally totally fine, but you've certainly proven the 785 00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:37,960 Speaker 1: model and it's incredibly impressive what you've achieved. So thank 786 00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:39,759 Speaker 1: you for being on the show today and thank you 787 00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,880 Speaker 1: for the work that you're doing. Um, it has been 788 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:45,880 Speaker 1: a pleasure to spend time with you. Thank you. It 789 00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,839 Speaker 1: has been my privilege to have interacted with you and 790 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:55,680 Speaker 1: shared my journey. Thank you for the opportunity. Alright, folks, 791 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,960 Speaker 1: it's time to give Samonari a PS score. The company's 792 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,840 Speaker 1: purpose impacts millions of people in a positive way. Samonati 793 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,680 Speaker 1: looks beyond their immediate customers. They exist to change the 794 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:14,879 Speaker 1: entire agricultural ecosystem, which makes things better for everyone. It's 795 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:19,040 Speaker 1: an enormous job, full of ambition, and the vast scale 796 00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:22,160 Speaker 1: of their aspiration is evident in the score of thirty 797 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,719 Speaker 1: that a Neil gave himself. That score shows just how 798 00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,920 Speaker 1: much more potential he feels there is yet to fulfill. 799 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,640 Speaker 1: But I think a lower score is fairer in this case, 800 00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:37,880 Speaker 1: not because there isn't upside for Samonati, but because I 801 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,480 Speaker 1: think their words aligned so well with their deeds that 802 00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,360 Speaker 1: they just deserve a better score. So I'm going to 803 00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,640 Speaker 1: cut a Neil score in half and give Samonati an 804 00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:54,840 Speaker 1: extremely impressive fifteen. And if you're starting a purpose led business, 805 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,040 Speaker 1: or if you're thinking about beginning the journey of transformation 806 00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,880 Speaker 1: to become one, here are rethings you can take away 807 00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:08,400 Speaker 1: from this episode. One, lead with your heart. Empathy and 808 00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,239 Speaker 1: understanding for all of your stakeholders is a key aspect 809 00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:16,600 Speaker 1: of building a successful purpose led business. Empathy doesn't appear 810 00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,920 Speaker 1: in a lot of NBA programs, and it's hard to 811 00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,840 Speaker 1: find in a spreadsheet, and yet it is the secret 812 00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:28,120 Speaker 1: sauce that is driving the success of conscious capitalism. Two. 813 00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:32,560 Speaker 1: Pick a problem you understand and really care about. A 814 00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:36,080 Speaker 1: Nil's humble beginnings in India gave him a unique perspective 815 00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:39,960 Speaker 1: on the plight of smallholder farmers, one that traditional bankers 816 00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:45,440 Speaker 1: couldn't see or understand. Your personal experiences and struggles are 817 00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:52,640 Speaker 1: where you may find your own purpose led unicorn. Three. 818 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,719 Speaker 1: It's not a zero sum game. The best purpose led 819 00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,799 Speaker 1: businesses don't create winners and losers. They create win win 820 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:05,080 Speaker 1: win scenarios in which a complex web of stakeholders improve 821 00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:10,719 Speaker 1: each other's lives and finances. They create Samonati, you know, 822 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:16,120 Speaker 1: collective progress. I want to thank our guest today a 823 00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:19,719 Speaker 1: Neil Kumar, the team at Samonati and the team at 824 00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,840 Speaker 1: l of Our Equity for helping to make this episode possible. 825 00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:29,000 Speaker 1: And if today's episode inspired you to lift up our ecosystem, 826 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,399 Speaker 1: subscribe to the Calling Bullshit podcast on the I Heart 827 00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,840 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to people 828 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,839 Speaker 1: speaking to your ears and friends. I'd like to ask 829 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:42,080 Speaker 1: for your help. If you enjoy the Calling Bullshit Podcast, 830 00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,840 Speaker 1: take a second to rate us on Apple podcasts or 831 00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:48,799 Speaker 1: on your preferred platform. It helps more listeners find the 832 00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:55,280 Speaker 1: show and thanks to our production team Hannah Beal, Amanda Ginsburg, Ds, 833 00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:01,880 Speaker 1: Moss Hailey, Pascalites, Parker Silzer and Basil Soaper. Calling Bullshit 834 00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,920 Speaker 1: was created by Co Collective and is hosted by Me 835 00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:11,520 Speaker 1: Tai Mounting you. Thanks for listening. H