WEBVTT - Manhattan 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:03.480 On the pick Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:07.160 have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.360 and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:16.320 In best start changing it with the beck del cast. Hi, 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.119 welcome to the backdel cast. Already sounds so excited. I 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:23.440 guess this isn't really so uh bonus episode alert. Yeah, 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.440 we're doing an episode that's and it's a bonus, but 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:31.000 it's it's grim. It's a grim. It's a grim bonus. 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.280 It's it's still the scariest month of the year, true 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:36.839 and truly the news has been proving it is the 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:42.839 scariest month of the year. So we are doing a 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.000 bonus episode. Obviously, if you're cooking on it, you know 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:49.680 what it's about about the nine Woody Allen movie Manhattan, 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:54.480 And why have we chosen to do this movie? I 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:57.200 mean we really dug deep inside. No, we literally woke 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.680 up and looked at the screens that we sleep next to, 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.360 and it said that, you know, everything is a nightmare, 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:07.640 which we knew Harry Weinstein, Harvey Weinstein, Woody Allen, dozens 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:11.640 of others. Right, it's been it's been, I mean obviously 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:14.440 a deeply traveling a couple of weeks. For all the 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:18.240 allegations that are coming out, it's it's very positive that 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:22.720 they're being brought out to the world. But it's hard, right, 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:27.319 especially because the victims who are coming forward are perceiving 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:32.800 some backlash, especially Woody Allen saying things like, oh, I 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:37.959 don't support what Harvey Weinstein did, but you know, let's 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:42.360 not start a witch hunt, you know, which hunts those 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:46.560 things that men used to do to women for no 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:51.800 reason other than they were threatened by women existing in 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:57.400 the world around them. Right, So we thought it would 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:02.040 be perhaps useful to look back on an example of 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:08.400 a very predatory movie made by an allegedly very predatory 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:13.200 person and talk about it, because it is wild watching 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:16.240 this movie now came out what thirty eight years ago 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:20.520 now is while watching this movie and ever thinking that 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:24.760 this was, like this is amazing, Like this isn't a 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.280 hard movie to watch at all. Right. I saw it 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:29.680 for the first time probably in college, probably around ten 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:32.720 years ago, and that was the only time I had 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.519 seen it, But I didn't remember even what it was about. 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.160 I didn't remember that a forty two year old man 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:42.200 was in a relationship with a seventeen year old girl. 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:45.400 I just didn't remember that that's what the story was 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:48.480 because ten years ago, you know, I guess I just wasn't. 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:51.040 I mean, I probably was like, oh, that's that's weird, 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:53.680 and then I just forgot about it. Whereas today, well, 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:55.919 and I think that a lot of work is done 0:02:55.960 --> 0:03:00.400 by the movie itself to really glaze over any problems 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:03.679 that are there where I mean, we'll get into that too, 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:06.280 where no one at the movie really raises a stink 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:08.800 other than a passing joke at the fact that their 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.440 crimes happening in front of them. So I think that 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.919 the world Woody Allen creates, and I mean, we weren't 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:19.280 alive for it, but it seems like the general society 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:21.560 at that time did not point stuff like this out, 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.960 and so the movie doesn't point it out, and that's bad. 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:27.280 I first saw this movie in college as well, but 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:30.919 it did bother me quite a bit because I saw 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:34.519 this movie. This would have been the Lateen, which is 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.600 when allegations about Woody Allen were first starting to surface, 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:43.120 like really exploded in early but late there was rumblings 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.920 and I had to take a class to graduate school 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:49.400 and so I ended up having to take this class 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:54.080 about Charlie Kaufman, Woody Allen, and Billy Wilder films. So 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:56.400 we had to watch a lot of Woody Allen films, 0:03:56.520 --> 0:04:00.520 and I recall not liking them, not doing well in 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:05.240 the class, and getting in trouble for specifically being like, 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.120 this is gross. Why is he fucking a kid? Like 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:10.800 that in particularly got me in trouble at that class. See. 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:13.720 I So I took a directing class because you know, 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:19.440 I did go to film school twice, and I was 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:23.080 given like the script to a scene in Manhattan to 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:25.320 be like, Okay, let's see how you would direct this. 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:30.119 And it's the scene between Woody Allen's character and Tracy's character, 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:33.280 the seventeen year old girl kidding, the one we're they're 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:35.640 in bed and he has just moved into his new 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:37.840 apartment and he was talking about like the water being 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:42.320 brown and the noises from the his neighbors and stuff 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.720 like that, and like at the time, I was just like, oh, 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.799 I'll just direct this scene. Like it didn't really occur 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:53.120 to me, like how gross and problematic, And that was 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:55.960 a school assignment, Like that's great. Yeah, I mean I 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.640 was like, yeah, I what was my professor thinking. I 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.880 had literally had no choic but to watch these money 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.919 or I couldn't graduate. Like it's just great. And also 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:07.640 I I not to say this was a benefit in 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.360 any way, but I was armed with a lot of 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:14.800 a lot more information in latee of like this guy 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.400 was basically being I mean not that there was no 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:20.640 way to tell, as he had already married his daughter, 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.360 but there there were serious allegations coming out, and it 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:29.480 just felt wrong to be idolizing this work in anyway, 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:32.400 especially when it's just like he he it's why he 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:34.479 really is just laying it out in front of you 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:37.280 of like I'm a predator. I fun kids, I did, 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:41.240 like you're just like he's unapologetic about it, and it's nuts. 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:46.800 Not even unapologetically he's victimizing himself about like it's just okay. 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:50.080 So let's talk about the movie. Manhattan comes out in 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:53.960 nineteen seventy nine after Annie Hall, after he's sort of 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:58.160 said that I guess we're doing this now, you know, 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:03.400 or watching way Allen do the same fucking things. Great, Yeah, 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:08.320 I'll do the recap. Manhattan is about a Woody Allen 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:13.920 type character about one Allen. His character though, is named Isaac, 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.839 and he is in a relationship with a seventeen year 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:23.320 old funny and everyone's like, wow, she's beautiful, and he's like, 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:28.240 she's seventeen in public, she's in high school, she's seventeen. 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:31.680 Isn't this funny? Isn't this weird? And the characters responded 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:34.440 by saying, yeah, that is weird, that is funny, where 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:38.680 it's just like, you know, we weren't there in ninety nine. 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.520 But I find it very hard to believe that there's 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:45.880 two characters responding, oh, that is so weird, like it's 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:49.240 just because it was a crime. Towards the end, she's like, 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:53.039 I turned eighteen, so I'm legal now, acknowledging that the 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.960 sex they were having before was not legal, which it wasn't, 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:00.880 and no one gave any shit about it. So not 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.200 even the movie that, not even not even the characters 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.800 in the movie who won And another straight white guy 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:10.640 whose name eludes me at this it's Yale. No, like 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:14.440 the co writer for the movie Marshall Brickman. Marshall Brickman, 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:16.880 So they write this movie together. They're writing all these 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:21.280 female characters, meaning they're directing, you know, like Diane Keaton's 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:25.280 character who on paper and then I think several parts 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.760 of the movie is a good character I would agree 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.040 to given a background. And it's like, man, I hate 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:32.720 that there's a good female character in this movie. But 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:36.000 I mean, she has, she is armed with all the information, 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:40.480 she is intelligent, she is she's very outspoken, very outspoken, 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:42.880 doesn't seem to care, doesn't seem to care, And it's like, 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:47.640 how fucking convenient that you're very empowered female character just 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.200 also doesn't seem to notice that you're fucking a kid. 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.440 And if she mentions it, mentions it as like so 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.360 weird that this is going on. At one point, so 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:58.960 there's a character named Yale, which is what EN's character's 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.680 best friend, and he's married to Emily. At one point, 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:05.040 Emily says, oh no, I don't think seventeen is too young. 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:07.840 That's like in the first fifteen roots of the movie. 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.200 And I know, and to tell you you flame and 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:13.160 hot trolls out there who were like the women in 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.520 the movie. Yeah, but that the women in the movie, 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:18.440 those words weren't put there by a woman. They were 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:22.280 put there by two men. So it's like these relatively 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:29.920 realized female characters spouting nonsense like it's just yeah, sorry, 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:31.920 I love how it worked up. We are It is 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:37.360 infuriating movie watch at times, deeply uncomfortable. We laughed at 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.600 two different parts and that was upsetting too. Were like, 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.640 I hate that, I found that funny. I hate the chuckle. 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:47.280 I hated it. It's just oh god, okay, anyway, so okay. 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:50.400 So Isaac is dating a seventeen year old woman. His 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:54.520 friend Yale is married, but he starts seeing this woman, 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:58.440 Mary played by Dan Dane Keaton. Woody Allen meets Mary 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:04.720 and he's like, oh, I actually, I like there's another 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:07.120 thing in here where it's It's like, oh, Wh're gonna 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:11.440 forgive him for these hanous crimes he's committing because he's awkward. Again, 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.480 the use of an awkward personality as an excuse to 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:18.160 do fucking insane things. I'm gonna go ahead and coin 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.839 the term stutter corps. This is a stutter corp movie. 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:25.320 All Woody Allen movies are stutter corps, and which just 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:29.960 is you can shave fifteen minutes off the top of 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:35.320 the movie. Right. So he meets Mary and they get 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.240 off to a rocky start, but then he starts to 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:40.520 like Mary, and Mary starts to like him, so he's conflicted, Oh, 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.000 do I stay with this seventeen year old girl or 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:45.800 do I hang out with Mary even though she's also 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:48.400 dating my friend Yale. There's like kind of all this 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:51.240 back and forth. He's writing a book, he's writing a book, 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.840 he quits his job and is a writer. He's an artist, 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:59.000 which comes into play later. He surrounds himself with affluent, white, 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:03.560 fucking pretend just people, which is dumb, which I know, 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:09.080 but it's very intentional what Woody Allen chooses to satirize 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.439 in this movie and what he does not just satirize 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:15.000 in this movie, because I think he is satirizing bullshit 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:19.080 intellectualism quite a bit by being like, look at these people. 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:23.640 They're so smart, threat museums and observatories and planetariums all 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:25.640 the time, but they don't have it together. Like it's 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:28.840 you know, he's commenting on that. The things he is 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:33.160 not commenting on are just as glaring, such as he 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.880 is sucking a kid. This is barely commented on, and 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.240 and and in the way it's commented on. Tracy Mariel, 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:45.120 Hemingway's character is being developed at the expense of the protagonist, 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:50.160 which is like another continued I mean, I'm almost done. 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.719 I don't really know what else happens. It's not an 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:59.120 exciting movie. So at some point he breaks up with Tracy, 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:02.400 the seventeen year old girl. He starts to go in 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:06.760 sort of full force with Mary in their relationship, and 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.640 then Mary meanwhile it's like, actually I think I still 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.760 love Yale. So she and Yale kind of get back 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:17.160 to together, and then Woody Allen's character is like, well, 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:21.400 I'm lonely, so I better go back the girl to 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:25.640 the child. But here's a twist. She's not a child now. 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:31.280 She's she's crazy having gas let her throughout the entire 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:33.520 movie because she's like, why might want to go and 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.760 study in London and he's like, yeah, you should. Actually 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:40.720 we probably shouldn't be together you're young, but like not 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.520 to any point where he's going to really do anything 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:45.640 about it. And then at the end she's like, Okay, 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:47.800 I'm gonna go to London like you said I should, 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:51.200 and he's like, actually, no, not on, I don't have 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:55.440 anyone to validate me. And then she you know, but 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:58.560 what a six month matter if we're in love, which 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.360 is you know, a very eight, your old thing to say, 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.079 and it ends with him like smiling, and we're like, 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:10.880 oh yeah, maybe there's no there's never even the looming 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:15.600 threat of a consequence for treating this situation where he does, 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.400 for committing a crime over and over and over. It's 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:21.920 openly discussed between the two characters. You can't even call 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.000 it an open secret. It's not a secret. He's taking 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.079 her out in public. We don't know that much about 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:31.880 her parents or or where, nothing, nothing. I really know 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.520 nothing about her character apart from her age and that 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.840 she apparently is interested in acting. We're going abroad to 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:43.360 study that, right, and she goes to high school. This 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:46.480 this trope we've talked about before and it applies more 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.719 to sci fi characters generally, but it did want to 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:54.880 bring up the born Sexy Yesterday and that with Tracy 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:58.720 and Isaac. It's like this dynamic and what we sort 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:00.640 of are led to believe as a feeling about it 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.760 for ISAA because that he's teaching this girl, he's teaching 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:08.920 her intellectually, he's teaching her, teaching her, he's raping her, 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:13.600 but he's teaching her sexually or that's his impression or whatever. 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:16.679 Just the fact that there's there's no point in the 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:20.000 movie where it's brought up as anything but a funny thing. 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:24.280 It is never addressed it as a crime. It's indirectly 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.240 addressed as a crime, where it's a joke that she's 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:31.160 legal now, and there's no there's no threat that he 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:34.120 will receive any punishment, and in fact he doesn't and 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:38.720 he still has it. So great for Woody Allen funk Off. 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:42.280 I was at a bar last night and I was like, yeah, 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:46.360 brag and I was like, oh, sorry, I'm late. I 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:50.479 had to watch Manhattan. We're doing it tomorrow on my podcast, 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:54.000 and my friends were like, what why, And I'm like, well, 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.520 what better way to introduce all the fucking problematic ship 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.760 that's happening in Hollywood right now and that has always 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:06.680 been happening. Then a widely regarded movie where a major 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:11.800 platfoint is repeated. Rape. Amazing there for anyone who is like, 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:18.160 but wait, okay, let's think top of the Dome cinematography. Sure, great, 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.400 there's a seed in the planetarium where lights are used. 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.600 George Gershwood very talented man, also deeply problematic. You can 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.560 go into that Google hole yourself. New York a city 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:36.400 that exists. The technical merits of this movie is not 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:40.000 what we're here to discuss. So if that's where you're 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:42.320 coming from in terms of like, but the rapes look 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:48.160 so good, uh no, funk off enjoy your life. Also, 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.080 I don't like this movie, Like it's not it's I 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:55.200 hate I hate it, say I haven't. I have a 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:59.200 deep mistrust for anyone who's like, yeah, Manhattan's a great film. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:04.040 Got goodbye. We have to we have to be going. 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:09.000 So we've discussed Tracy is obviously the glaring, major, major, 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.160 major issue in this movie. But the other two main 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:17.680 female characters are Mary, Diane Keaton's character and Jill, who 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:20.840 is Woody Allen's second ex wife. Correct, I didn't mention 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.840 her in the recap. She's played by Meryl Street and 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:30.080 she's depicted as this like greed true character. So the 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.360 plot point there is if, unless I'm mistaken, she is 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:38.600 writing a memoir about her Mary what a shitty partner 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.240 Woody Allen was like, I tell all kind of memoir thing. 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:46.360 She is also now living with her girlfriend and raising 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:50.760 Woody Allen's son. That's she has primary custody of Woody 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:55.680 Allen's and her son, and Woody Allen is very uncomfortable 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:59.320 with two women raising his son, which is brought up 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.440 as a joke, and sort of there's the scene we 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:07.960 see like one longish scene between Isaac and the Sun 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.960 where you mentined he hits his Sun as his son 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.640 because his sons trying to get his dad to buy 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.080 him like a toy boat, very pointing to the bigger, 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.320 more expensive one, and then Woody Allen just like strikes 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:25.080 him in the head. So there's that, And then in 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.520 the next cut there at some sort of it's a 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.880 rest restaurant and Isaac is saying like, oh we could, 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:35.120 like you know, basically presents his son with like I 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.640 know you're being raised by two women, but don't forget 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.560 about toxic masculine. It like it's just where he talks 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.240 about picking up women as like a joke to his kid. Yeah, 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.000 he's like, if you were quicker, we could have picked 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.240 those women up, just you know, teaching him just like 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:56.000 fucking creep t he Also, it doesn't take too much 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.320 of a leap to say that Woody Allen is kind 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:04.960 of villainizing Jill Meryl Streep's characters sexuality as well. He's 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:09.400 just saying like this shrewish gay woman, and it's also presented, 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:12.159 and I thought this was interesting. I was reading Roger 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.359 Ebert went back and watched this movie and had more 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:19.680 come about it. In two thousand and one, he writes 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:22.240 about this character specifically in a way that I think 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:25.280 was weird, where he says Isaac's former wife Meryl Streep 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:26.680 left him the live with a woman and writes the 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:29.320 bestseller ridiculing her marriage and love life. We doubt her 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.080 new relationship is sound if it leaves her so obsessed 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:36.360 with the previous one. That is I mean, and I'm 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:41.800 maybe that is how that reads to another straight white man, 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.960 but that I mean, and I mean that's also just 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:47.480 pure speculation because you don't see that much of their 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.240 relationship on screen. But I think we are led to 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.200 believe that. You know, it's like, well, Jill can't get 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:55.879 over it, and she's trying to capitalize on what a 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:59.119 shitty partner he was and now she dates a woman 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:03.080 where I feel almost the implication is Woody Allen was 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.200 such a bad husband that he turned her gay. That 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.280 was what I took away. That's sort of how he 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:12.720 I think he can character. Yeah, I think that that's 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:16.720 what the movie thinks, you know, regardless of the integrity 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:19.920 of this character, who deserved better. I don't know. I 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:22.800 mean and and that is an individual's read. But I 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:26.480 think the fact that a professional movie critics read was like, 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.000 well she was so she's still so hung up on him. 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:34.560 It's like, you can't conflate trauma with being in love, 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.560 right and still being hung Like being angry about someone 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:42.560 abusing you does not equal she's still in love with him, Like, 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:44.880 but I think that that is what the movie would 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.480 have you believe in that bobble Well, I made a 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.160 list of all the things, or not even I probably 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:52.600 didn't even hit all of them, but many of this 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:56.000 you have a comprehensive list, Let's not sure, but I'm 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.119 saying that there were so many that I probably missed. 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.040 Some says this is such a fucking against stutter core 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:05.040 movie that I can't even not to shame people with stutters. 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.320 She was stutter shaming. No stutter shaming here, I'm just 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:12.199 saying that Woody Allen should fall off the edge of 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:15.520 the planet. So I made a list of all the 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:19.119 things that he says either to or about women in 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:23.879 the movie. The first one is he's talking to Tracy. 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:25.960 This is after she's like, I think I'm in love 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:27.679 with you for the first time pretty early on in 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.480 the movie, and he says, don't get carried away, you're 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:32.600 a kid. As long as the cops don't burst in, 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.320 we're going to break a couple of records. And then 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:37.359 later he's like, get dressed, like I'm going to fund 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:41.080 a kid more than anyone who ever a kid, Jesus Christ. 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:43.399 And then he's like, get dressed because you've got to 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:44.639 get out of here. I don't want you to be 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.639 comfortable here. You can't stay here, right does all he 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.280 can to make Tracy's character not feel like she is 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.120 a permanent fixture in his life totally. That And this 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:56.239 is like sort of the beginning of him gaslighting her 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.280 because constantly throughout the movie he's saying, you're too young, 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:01.359 you don't under stand what love is, because she keeps 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:04.160 being like, I love you. She literally says over and over, 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:09.080 take me, seriously, listen to me. But and then he's 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:11.320 just like, you're not old enough, Like you don't know 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:13.240 what love is, You're too young. Yeah, that, but that 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:16.439 criticism has never turned inward of like maybe this is 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:18.400 the wrong thing to be doing, because it ends with 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:23.359 maybe I we'll get to fund this kid again, like okay, sorry, continuous. 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.480 Later he says to Jill, his ex wife Meryl Streep, 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:30.760 of the two of us, I was not the immoral, psychotic, 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:35.440 promiscuous one. Oh is that a reference to her sexuality? 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:40.080 I think probably so excellent? Later on to Tracy, and 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:42.800 this is after she's like, oh, you know, maybe people 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:44.720 aren't meant to just like be with one person forever. 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:47.440 It's kind of gone out of date. Again, more gasline, 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:49.320 because he's like, don't you tell me what's gone out 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.000 of date. You're seventeen. You were brought up on drugs 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.960 television in the pill gas lighting bullettling her experience. He 0:20:56.000 --> 0:21:00.960 knows Benner because he has less hair. And then after 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:04.240 this is after he meets Mary, he says about her, 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.480 what a creep. She was overbearing, she was terrible, she 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:10.720 was all cerebral. If she said one more thing about Bergmann, 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:14.480 I would have knocked her other contact lens out. So 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:18.760 I don't like that she's smart. I want to hit her. Okay, 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.879 I'll just I'll just talk to translate. Please, this is 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:24.840 this is good. Shortly After that, he says about Jill, 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:27.399 I got a divorce because my ex wife left me 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:31.399 for another woman. Mary says, that must have been really demoralizing. 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:34.159 Isaac says, I tried to run them both over with 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:38.199 a car. Mary says, that's incredible sexual humiliation. And I 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.040 think that's enough to turn you off of women, which 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:44.600 I found to be a very bizarre scene because Mary 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.840 has been set up and later on the movie continues 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:51.440 to be the smartest and most rational in her thinking 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:55.359 and all of that. But because this character was written 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:59.840 by two men, she's just reinforcing what what he Alan 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:02.199 actually thinks, which was, Yeah, for me to have been 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:06.600 left by a woman for another woman, how humiliating. Well, 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:09.639 I think I think that this is sort of something 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:12.840 that comes up in a lot of Woody Allen's movies 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:16.560 where I wish I had a snappier title for it. 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:20.640 But a feminist character written by a man, So not 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:26.080 really a feminist character, but one that in appearance and behavior, 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:30.080 in profession, there's enough there that you're just like, oh, 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:32.720 you know, like you you would trust Diane Keaton's character, 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:38.640 but she's still being written by a villain basically, and 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:42.880 so when she glosses over the fact that when Allen's kid, 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:48.960 when she glosses over villainizing queer people. As an audience member, 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:50.760 you know, if you're not you know, you're sort of 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:53.600 being told don't think about it. The character you trust 0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:57.560 thinks that, you know, queer people's lives don't matter either, 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:00.640 and and stupid people with no critical thing skills would 0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:05.080 just be like, yeah, great, right, or people who have 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:09.800 not encountered alternate ways of thinking. Because Woody Allens, all 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:12.760 of his work is, We're told, is so intellectual and 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:15.639 so smart that it's like, where are you supposed to 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:18.080 be questioning? Where you not supposed to be questioning? He 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:20.760 directs your focus in very deliberate ways and also directs 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:25.480 your focus away. Okay, translation, I tried to kill gay 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:31.520 people who hurt my feelings. Response. That sucks for you, 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:34.760 and I can understand why you would have done that. 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:38.000 I get it, would have done the same thing myself. 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:43.880 Fuck that. Moving on later on, he says to Mary, well, 0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:46.919 first Mary is talking about Tracy and she's like sixteen 0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:51.119 years old, no possible threat at all. Isaac says, she's seventeen. 0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:55.320 You know, sometimes you have a losing personality Mary, what 0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:57.560 do you want. I'm honest, I say what's on my mind, 0:23:57.680 --> 0:23:59.760 and if you can't take it, then funk off. I 0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:03.000