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Speaker 1: On the pick Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies

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Speaker 1: have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends

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Speaker 1: and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef

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Speaker 1: In best start changing it with the beck del cast. Hi,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the backdel cast. Already sounds so excited. I

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Speaker 1: guess this isn't really so uh bonus episode alert. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're doing an episode that's and it's a bonus, but

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Speaker 1: it's it's grim. It's a grim. It's a grim bonus.

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Speaker 1: It's it's still the scariest month of the year, true

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Speaker 1: and truly the news has been proving it is the

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Speaker 1: scariest month of the year. So we are doing a

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Speaker 1: bonus episode. Obviously, if you're cooking on it, you know

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Speaker 1: what it's about about the nine Woody Allen movie Manhattan,

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Speaker 1: And why have we chosen to do this movie? I

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Speaker 1: mean we really dug deep inside. No, we literally woke

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Speaker 1: up and looked at the screens that we sleep next to,

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Speaker 1: and it said that, you know, everything is a nightmare,

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Speaker 1: which we knew Harry Weinstein, Harvey Weinstein, Woody Allen, dozens

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Speaker 1: of others. Right, it's been it's been, I mean obviously

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Speaker 1: a deeply traveling a couple of weeks. For all the

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Speaker 1: allegations that are coming out, it's it's very positive that

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Speaker 1: they're being brought out to the world. But it's hard, right,

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Speaker 1: especially because the victims who are coming forward are perceiving

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Speaker 1: some backlash, especially Woody Allen saying things like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: don't support what Harvey Weinstein did, but you know, let's

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Speaker 1: not start a witch hunt, you know, which hunts those

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Speaker 1: things that men used to do to women for no

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Speaker 1: reason other than they were threatened by women existing in

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Speaker 1: the world around them. Right, So we thought it would

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Speaker 1: be perhaps useful to look back on an example of

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Speaker 1: a very predatory movie made by an allegedly very predatory

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Speaker 1: person and talk about it, because it is wild watching

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Speaker 1: this movie now came out what thirty eight years ago

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Speaker 1: now is while watching this movie and ever thinking that

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Speaker 1: this was, like this is amazing, Like this isn't a

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Speaker 1: hard movie to watch at all. Right. I saw it

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Speaker 1: for the first time probably in college, probably around ten

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Speaker 1: years ago, and that was the only time I had

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Speaker 1: seen it, But I didn't remember even what it was about.

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Speaker 1: I didn't remember that a forty two year old man

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Speaker 1: was in a relationship with a seventeen year old girl.

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Speaker 1: I just didn't remember that that's what the story was

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Speaker 1: because ten years ago, you know, I guess I just wasn't.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I probably was like, oh, that's that's weird,

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Speaker 1: and then I just forgot about it. Whereas today, well,

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Speaker 1: and I think that a lot of work is done

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Speaker 1: by the movie itself to really glaze over any problems

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Speaker 1: that are there where I mean, we'll get into that too,

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Speaker 1: where no one at the movie really raises a stink

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Speaker 1: other than a passing joke at the fact that their

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Speaker 1: crimes happening in front of them. So I think that

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Speaker 1: the world Woody Allen creates, and I mean, we weren't

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Speaker 1: alive for it, but it seems like the general society

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Speaker 1: at that time did not point stuff like this out,

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Speaker 1: and so the movie doesn't point it out, and that's bad.

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Speaker 1: I first saw this movie in college as well, but

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Speaker 1: it did bother me quite a bit because I saw

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Speaker 1: this movie. This would have been the Lateen, which is

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Speaker 1: when allegations about Woody Allen were first starting to surface,

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Speaker 1: like really exploded in early but late there was rumblings

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Speaker 1: and I had to take a class to graduate school

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Speaker 1: and so I ended up having to take this class

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Speaker 1: about Charlie Kaufman, Woody Allen, and Billy Wilder films. So

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Speaker 1: we had to watch a lot of Woody Allen films,

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Speaker 1: and I recall not liking them, not doing well in

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Speaker 1: the class, and getting in trouble for specifically being like,

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Speaker 1: this is gross. Why is he fucking a kid? Like

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Speaker 1: that in particularly got me in trouble at that class. See.

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Speaker 1: I So I took a directing class because you know,

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Speaker 1: I did go to film school twice, and I was

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Speaker 1: given like the script to a scene in Manhattan to

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Speaker 1: be like, Okay, let's see how you would direct this.

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Speaker 1: And it's the scene between Woody Allen's character and Tracy's character,

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Speaker 1: the seventeen year old girl kidding, the one we're they're

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Speaker 1: in bed and he has just moved into his new

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Speaker 1: apartment and he was talking about like the water being

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Speaker 1: brown and the noises from the his neighbors and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, and like at the time, I was just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'll just direct this scene. Like it didn't really occur

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Speaker 1: to me, like how gross and problematic, And that was

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Speaker 1: a school assignment, Like that's great. Yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I what was my professor thinking. I

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Speaker 1: had literally had no choic but to watch these money

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Speaker 1: or I couldn't graduate. Like it's just great. And also

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Speaker 1: I I not to say this was a benefit in

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Speaker 1: any way, but I was armed with a lot of

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Speaker 1: a lot more information in latee of like this guy

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Speaker 1: was basically being I mean not that there was no

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Speaker 1: way to tell, as he had already married his daughter,

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Speaker 1: but there there were serious allegations coming out, and it

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Speaker 1: just felt wrong to be idolizing this work in anyway,

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Speaker 1: especially when it's just like he he it's why he

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Speaker 1: really is just laying it out in front of you

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Speaker 1: of like I'm a predator. I fun kids, I did,

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Speaker 1: like you're just like he's unapologetic about it, and it's nuts.

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Speaker 1: Not even unapologetically he's victimizing himself about like it's just okay.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about the movie. Manhattan comes out in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine after Annie Hall, after he's sort of

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Speaker 1: said that I guess we're doing this now, you know,

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Speaker 1: or watching way Allen do the same fucking things. Great, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll do the recap. Manhattan is about a Woody Allen

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Speaker 1: type character about one Allen. His character though, is named Isaac,

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Speaker 1: and he is in a relationship with a seventeen year

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Speaker 1: old funny and everyone's like, wow, she's beautiful, and he's like,

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Speaker 1: she's seventeen in public, she's in high school, she's seventeen.

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Speaker 1: Isn't this funny? Isn't this weird? And the characters responded

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Speaker 1: by saying, yeah, that is weird, that is funny, where

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Speaker 1: it's just like, you know, we weren't there in ninety nine.

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Speaker 1: But I find it very hard to believe that there's

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Speaker 1: two characters responding, oh, that is so weird, like it's

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Speaker 1: just because it was a crime. Towards the end, she's like,

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Speaker 1: I turned eighteen, so I'm legal now, acknowledging that the

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Speaker 1: sex they were having before was not legal, which it wasn't,

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Speaker 1: and no one gave any shit about it. So not

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Speaker 1: even the movie that, not even not even the characters

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Speaker 1: in the movie who won And another straight white guy

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Speaker 1: whose name eludes me at this it's Yale. No, like

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Speaker 1: the co writer for the movie Marshall Brickman. Marshall Brickman,

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Speaker 1: So they write this movie together. They're writing all these

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Speaker 1: female characters, meaning they're directing, you know, like Diane Keaton's

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Speaker 1: character who on paper and then I think several parts

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Speaker 1: of the movie is a good character I would agree

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Speaker 1: to given a background. And it's like, man, I hate

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Speaker 1: that there's a good female character in this movie. But

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Speaker 1: I mean, she has, she is armed with all the information,

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Speaker 1: she is intelligent, she is she's very outspoken, very outspoken,

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem to care, doesn't seem to care, And it's like,

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Speaker 1: how fucking convenient that you're very empowered female character just

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Speaker 1: also doesn't seem to notice that you're fucking a kid.

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Speaker 1: And if she mentions it, mentions it as like so

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Speaker 1: weird that this is going on. At one point, so

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Speaker 1: there's a character named Yale, which is what EN's character's

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Speaker 1: best friend, and he's married to Emily. At one point,

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Speaker 1: Emily says, oh no, I don't think seventeen is too young.

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Speaker 1: That's like in the first fifteen roots of the movie.

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Speaker 1: And I know, and to tell you you flame and

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Speaker 1: hot trolls out there who were like the women in

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Speaker 1: the movie. Yeah, but that the women in the movie,

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Speaker 1: those words weren't put there by a woman. They were

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Speaker 1: put there by two men. So it's like these relatively

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Speaker 1: realized female characters spouting nonsense like it's just yeah, sorry,

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Speaker 1: I love how it worked up. We are It is

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Speaker 1: infuriating movie watch at times, deeply uncomfortable. We laughed at

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Speaker 1: two different parts and that was upsetting too. Were like,

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Speaker 1: I hate that, I found that funny. I hate the chuckle.

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Speaker 1: I hated it. It's just oh god, okay, anyway, so okay.

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Speaker 1: So Isaac is dating a seventeen year old woman. His

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Speaker 1: friend Yale is married, but he starts seeing this woman,

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Speaker 1: Mary played by Dan Dane Keaton. Woody Allen meets Mary

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Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, I actually, I like there's another

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Speaker 1: thing in here where it's It's like, oh, Wh're gonna

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Speaker 1: forgive him for these hanous crimes he's committing because he's awkward. Again,

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Speaker 1: the use of an awkward personality as an excuse to

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Speaker 1: do fucking insane things. I'm gonna go ahead and coin

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Speaker 1: the term stutter corps. This is a stutter corp movie.

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Speaker 1: All Woody Allen movies are stutter corps, and which just

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Speaker 1: is you can shave fifteen minutes off the top of

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Speaker 1: the movie. Right. So he meets Mary and they get

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Speaker 1: off to a rocky start, but then he starts to

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Speaker 1: like Mary, and Mary starts to like him, so he's conflicted, Oh,

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Speaker 1: do I stay with this seventeen year old girl or

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Speaker 1: do I hang out with Mary even though she's also

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Speaker 1: dating my friend Yale. There's like kind of all this

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Speaker 1: back and forth. He's writing a book, he's writing a book,

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Speaker 1: he quits his job and is a writer. He's an artist,

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Speaker 1: which comes into play later. He surrounds himself with affluent, white,

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Speaker 1: fucking pretend just people, which is dumb, which I know,

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Speaker 1: but it's very intentional what Woody Allen chooses to satirize

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Speaker 1: in this movie and what he does not just satirize

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Speaker 1: in this movie, because I think he is satirizing bullshit

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Speaker 1: intellectualism quite a bit by being like, look at these people.

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Speaker 1: They're so smart, threat museums and observatories and planetariums all

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Speaker 1: the time, but they don't have it together. Like it's

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Speaker 1: you know, he's commenting on that. The things he is

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Speaker 1: not commenting on are just as glaring, such as he

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Speaker 1: is sucking a kid. This is barely commented on, and

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Speaker 1: and and in the way it's commented on. Tracy Mariel,

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Speaker 1: Hemingway's character is being developed at the expense of the protagonist,

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Speaker 1: which is like another continued I mean, I'm almost done.

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Speaker 1: I don't really know what else happens. It's not an

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Speaker 1: exciting movie. So at some point he breaks up with Tracy,

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Speaker 1: the seventeen year old girl. He starts to go in

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Speaker 1: sort of full force with Mary in their relationship, and

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Speaker 1: then Mary meanwhile it's like, actually I think I still

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Speaker 1: love Yale. So she and Yale kind of get back

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Speaker 1: to together, and then Woody Allen's character is like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm lonely, so I better go back the girl to

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Speaker 1: the child. But here's a twist. She's not a child now.

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Speaker 1: She's she's crazy having gas let her throughout the entire

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Speaker 1: movie because she's like, why might want to go and

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Speaker 1: study in London and he's like, yeah, you should. Actually

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Speaker 1: we probably shouldn't be together you're young, but like not

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Speaker 1: to any point where he's going to really do anything

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Speaker 1: about it. And then at the end she's like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to London like you said I should,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, actually, no, not on, I don't have

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Speaker 1: anyone to validate me. And then she you know, but

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Speaker 1: what a six month matter if we're in love, which

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Speaker 1: is you know, a very eight, your old thing to say,

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Speaker 1: and it ends with him like smiling, and we're like,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, maybe there's no there's never even the looming

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Speaker 1: threat of a consequence for treating this situation where he does,

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Speaker 1: for committing a crime over and over and over. It's

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Speaker 1: openly discussed between the two characters. You can't even call

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Speaker 1: it an open secret. It's not a secret. He's taking

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Speaker 1: her out in public. We don't know that much about

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Speaker 1: her parents or or where, nothing, nothing. I really know

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Speaker 1: nothing about her character apart from her age and that

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Speaker 1: she apparently is interested in acting. We're going abroad to

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Speaker 1: study that, right, and she goes to high school. This

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Speaker 1: this trope we've talked about before and it applies more

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Speaker 1: to sci fi characters generally, but it did want to

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Speaker 1: bring up the born Sexy Yesterday and that with Tracy

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Speaker 1: and Isaac. It's like this dynamic and what we sort

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Speaker 1: of are led to believe as a feeling about it

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Speaker 1: for ISAA because that he's teaching this girl, he's teaching

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Speaker 1: her intellectually, he's teaching her, teaching her, he's raping her,

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Speaker 1: but he's teaching her sexually or that's his impression or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Just the fact that there's there's no point in the

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Speaker 1: movie where it's brought up as anything but a funny thing.

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Speaker 1: It is never addressed it as a crime. It's indirectly

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Speaker 1: addressed as a crime, where it's a joke that she's

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Speaker 1: legal now, and there's no there's no threat that he

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Speaker 1: will receive any punishment, and in fact he doesn't and

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Speaker 1: he still has it. So great for Woody Allen funk Off.

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Speaker 1: I was at a bar last night and I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: brag and I was like, oh, sorry, I'm late. I

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Speaker 1: had to watch Manhattan. We're doing it tomorrow on my podcast,

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Speaker 1: and my friends were like, what why, And I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: what better way to introduce all the fucking problematic ship

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Speaker 1: that's happening in Hollywood right now and that has always

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Speaker 1: been happening. Then a widely regarded movie where a major

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Speaker 1: platfoint is repeated. Rape. Amazing there for anyone who is like,

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Speaker 1: but wait, okay, let's think top of the Dome cinematography. Sure, great,

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Speaker 1: there's a seed in the planetarium where lights are used.

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Speaker 1: George Gershwood very talented man, also deeply problematic. You can

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Speaker 1: go into that Google hole yourself. New York a city

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Speaker 1: that exists. The technical merits of this movie is not

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Speaker 1: what we're here to discuss. So if that's where you're

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Speaker 1: coming from in terms of like, but the rapes look

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Speaker 1: so good, uh no, funk off enjoy your life. Also,

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Speaker 1: I don't like this movie, Like it's not it's I

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Speaker 1: hate I hate it, say I haven't. I have a

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Speaker 1: deep mistrust for anyone who's like, yeah, Manhattan's a great film.

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Speaker 1: Got goodbye. We have to we have to be going.

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Speaker 1: So we've discussed Tracy is obviously the glaring, major, major,

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Speaker 1: major issue in this movie. But the other two main

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Speaker 1: female characters are Mary, Diane Keaton's character and Jill, who

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Speaker 1: is Woody Allen's second ex wife. Correct, I didn't mention

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Speaker 1: her in the recap. She's played by Meryl Street and

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Speaker 1: she's depicted as this like greed true character. So the

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Speaker 1: plot point there is if, unless I'm mistaken, she is

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Speaker 1: writing a memoir about her Mary what a shitty partner

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Speaker 1: Woody Allen was like, I tell all kind of memoir thing.

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Speaker 1: She is also now living with her girlfriend and raising

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Speaker 1: Woody Allen's son. That's she has primary custody of Woody

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Speaker 1: Allen's and her son, and Woody Allen is very uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: with two women raising his son, which is brought up

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Speaker 1: as a joke, and sort of there's the scene we

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Speaker 1: see like one longish scene between Isaac and the Sun

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Speaker 1: where you mentined he hits his Sun as his son

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Speaker 1: because his sons trying to get his dad to buy

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Speaker 1: him like a toy boat, very pointing to the bigger,

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Speaker 1: more expensive one, and then Woody Allen just like strikes

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Speaker 1: him in the head. So there's that, And then in

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Speaker 1: the next cut there at some sort of it's a

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Speaker 1: rest restaurant and Isaac is saying like, oh we could,

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Speaker 1: like you know, basically presents his son with like I

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Speaker 1: know you're being raised by two women, but don't forget

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Speaker 1: about toxic masculine. It like it's just where he talks

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Speaker 1: about picking up women as like a joke to his kid. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's like, if you were quicker, we could have picked

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Speaker 1: those women up, just you know, teaching him just like

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Speaker 1: fucking creep t he Also, it doesn't take too much

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Speaker 1: of a leap to say that Woody Allen is kind

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Speaker 1: of villainizing Jill Meryl Streep's characters sexuality as well. He's

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Speaker 1: just saying like this shrewish gay woman, and it's also presented,

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Speaker 1: and I thought this was interesting. I was reading Roger

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Speaker 1: Ebert went back and watched this movie and had more

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Speaker 1: come about it. In two thousand and one, he writes

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Speaker 1: about this character specifically in a way that I think

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Speaker 1: was weird, where he says Isaac's former wife Meryl Streep

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Speaker 1: left him the live with a woman and writes the

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Speaker 1: bestseller ridiculing her marriage and love life. We doubt her

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Speaker 1: new relationship is sound if it leaves her so obsessed

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Speaker 1: with the previous one. That is I mean, and I'm

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Speaker 1: maybe that is how that reads to another straight white man,

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Speaker 1: but that I mean, and I mean that's also just

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Speaker 1: pure speculation because you don't see that much of their

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Speaker 1: relationship on screen. But I think we are led to

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Speaker 1: believe that. You know, it's like, well, Jill can't get

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Speaker 1: over it, and she's trying to capitalize on what a

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Speaker 1: shitty partner he was and now she dates a woman

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Speaker 1: where I feel almost the implication is Woody Allen was

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Speaker 1: such a bad husband that he turned her gay. That

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Speaker 1: was what I took away. That's sort of how he

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Speaker 1: I think he can character. Yeah, I think that that's

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Speaker 1: what the movie thinks, you know, regardless of the integrity

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Speaker 1: of this character, who deserved better. I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: mean and and that is an individual's read. But I

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Speaker 1: think the fact that a professional movie critics read was like,

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Speaker 1: well she was so she's still so hung up on him.

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Speaker 1: It's like, you can't conflate trauma with being in love,

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Speaker 1: right and still being hung Like being angry about someone

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Speaker 1: abusing you does not equal she's still in love with him, Like,

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Speaker 1: but I think that that is what the movie would

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Speaker 1: have you believe in that bobble Well, I made a

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Speaker 1: list of all the things, or not even I probably

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Speaker 1: didn't even hit all of them, but many of this

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Speaker 1: you have a comprehensive list, Let's not sure, but I'm

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Speaker 1: saying that there were so many that I probably missed.

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Speaker 1: Some says this is such a fucking against stutter core

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Speaker 1: movie that I can't even not to shame people with stutters.

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Speaker 1: She was stutter shaming. No stutter shaming here, I'm just

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Speaker 1: saying that Woody Allen should fall off the edge of

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Speaker 1: the planet. So I made a list of all the

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Speaker 1: things that he says either to or about women in

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Speaker 1: the movie. The first one is he's talking to Tracy.

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Speaker 1: This is after she's like, I think I'm in love

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Speaker 1: with you for the first time pretty early on in

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Speaker 1: the movie, and he says, don't get carried away, you're

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Speaker 1: a kid. As long as the cops don't burst in,

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Speaker 1: we're going to break a couple of records. And then

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Speaker 1: later he's like, get dressed, like I'm going to fund

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Speaker 1: a kid more than anyone who ever a kid, Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 1: And then he's like, get dressed because you've got to

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Speaker 1: get out of here. I don't want you to be

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Speaker 1: comfortable here. You can't stay here, right does all he

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Speaker 1: can to make Tracy's character not feel like she is

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Speaker 1: a permanent fixture in his life totally. That And this

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Speaker 1: is like sort of the beginning of him gaslighting her

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Speaker 1: because constantly throughout the movie he's saying, you're too young,

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Speaker 1: you don't under stand what love is, because she keeps

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Speaker 1: being like, I love you. She literally says over and over,

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Speaker 1: take me, seriously, listen to me. But and then he's

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Speaker 1: just like, you're not old enough, Like you don't know

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Speaker 1: what love is, You're too young. Yeah, that, but that

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Speaker 1: criticism has never turned inward of like maybe this is

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Speaker 1: the wrong thing to be doing, because it ends with

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Speaker 1: maybe I we'll get to fund this kid again, like okay, sorry, continuous.

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Speaker 1: Later he says to Jill, his ex wife Meryl Streep,

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Speaker 1: of the two of us, I was not the immoral, psychotic,

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Speaker 1: promiscuous one. Oh is that a reference to her sexuality?

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Speaker 1: I think probably so excellent? Later on to Tracy, and

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Speaker 1: this is after she's like, oh, you know, maybe people

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Speaker 1: aren't meant to just like be with one person forever.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of gone out of date. Again, more gasline,

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Speaker 1: because he's like, don't you tell me what's gone out

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Speaker 1: of date. You're seventeen. You were brought up on drugs

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Speaker 1: television in the pill gas lighting bullettling her experience. He

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Speaker 1: knows Benner because he has less hair. And then after

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Speaker 1: this is after he meets Mary, he says about her,

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Speaker 1: what a creep. She was overbearing, she was terrible, she

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Speaker 1: was all cerebral. If she said one more thing about Bergmann,

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Speaker 1: I would have knocked her other contact lens out. So

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Speaker 1: I don't like that she's smart. I want to hit her. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll just I'll just talk to translate. Please, this is

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Speaker 1: this is good. Shortly After that, he says about Jill,

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Speaker 1: I got a divorce because my ex wife left me

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Speaker 1: for another woman. Mary says, that must have been really demoralizing.

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Speaker 1: Isaac says, I tried to run them both over with

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Speaker 1: a car. Mary says, that's incredible sexual humiliation. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's enough to turn you off of women, which

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Speaker 1: I found to be a very bizarre scene because Mary

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Speaker 1: has been set up and later on the movie continues

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Speaker 1: to be the smartest and most rational in her thinking

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Speaker 1: and all of that. But because this character was written

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Speaker 1: by two men, she's just reinforcing what what he Alan

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Speaker 1: actually thinks, which was, Yeah, for me to have been

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Speaker 1: left by a woman for another woman, how humiliating. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think I think that this is sort of something

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Speaker 1: that comes up in a lot of Woody Allen's movies

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Speaker 1: where I wish I had a snappier title for it.

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Speaker 1: But a feminist character written by a man, So not

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Speaker 1: really a feminist character, but one that in appearance and behavior,

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Speaker 1: in profession, there's enough there that you're just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, like you you would trust Diane Keaton's character,

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Speaker 1: but she's still being written by a villain basically, and

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Speaker 1: so when she glosses over the fact that when Allen's kid,

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Speaker 1: when she glosses over villainizing queer people. As an audience member,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you're not you know, you're sort of

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Speaker 1: being told don't think about it. The character you trust

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Speaker 1: thinks that, you know, queer people's lives don't matter either,

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Speaker 1: and and stupid people with no critical thing skills would

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Speaker 1: just be like, yeah, great, right, or people who have

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Speaker 1: not encountered alternate ways of thinking. Because Woody Allens, all

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Speaker 1: of his work is, We're told, is so intellectual and

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Speaker 1: so smart that it's like, where are you supposed to

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Speaker 1: be questioning? Where you not supposed to be questioning? He

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Speaker 1: directs your focus in very deliberate ways and also directs

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Speaker 1: your focus away. Okay, translation, I tried to kill gay

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Speaker 1: people who hurt my feelings. Response. That sucks for you,

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Speaker 1: and I can understand why you would have done that.

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Speaker 1: I get it, would have done the same thing myself.

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Speaker 1: Fuck that. Moving on later on, he says to Mary, well,

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Speaker 1: first Mary is talking about Tracy and she's like sixteen

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Speaker 1: years old, no possible threat at all. Isaac says, she's seventeen.

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes you have a losing personality Mary, what

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Speaker 1: do you want. I'm honest, I say what's on my mind,

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Speaker 1: and if you can't take it, then funk off. I

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Speaker 1: I like the way you express yourself too. It's pithy

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Speaker 1: yet degenerate. You get many dates, I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: A very witty exchange in which women being smart is

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Speaker 1: stupid and people calling Woody Allen out on his bullshit

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Speaker 1: is stupid. Yeah, there's more. Don't worry. This is about Jill.

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Speaker 1: He's talking to Mary. He says, my son is being

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Speaker 1: raised by two women. Mary says, I've read studies you

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Speaker 1: don't need a man to Mothers are absolutely fine. Isaac says,

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Speaker 1: I feel very few people survive one mother. Uh, this

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Speaker 1: is what Allen saying. Probably something happened to me a

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Speaker 1: very long time ago that was emasculating, and now for

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Speaker 1: the next sixty plus years, I will take it out

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Speaker 1: on any woman I come into contact. Yes, and then

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Speaker 1: again about his mother. Later on, Isaac says, I wrote

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Speaker 1: a short story about my mother, the castrating Zionist. This

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Speaker 1: is what he Allen saying. I'm trying to make this

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Speaker 1: seem like a fun Jewish caricature, but what it actually

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Speaker 1: is is I hate every woman I've ever met. All

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Speaker 1: these exchanges, by the way, happened in the first half

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Speaker 1: hour of the movie. Yeah, and then this, So this

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Speaker 1: is when I got very frustrated and maybe stopped paying

422
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: as close attention. But there's a few more later to jail.

423
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: He is gaslighting her and saying I did not try

424
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: to run you and your lover over with my car,

425
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: even though he's exactly and she's like, well, what were

426
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: you doing by the cabin anyway? And he's like, I

427
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 1: was flying on you. Uh, there's no there's no words.

428
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 1: I think he just he just really hit the nail

429
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: on the head on that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no

430
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: translation needed. We talked about this one. We talked about

431
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 1: that one. Yeah, that was the one where he's next

432
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: to two women in the restaurant and he's explaining to

433
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: his son how they should have picked them up and

434
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: fletched them. You know, his son a six year old boy,

435
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: and and like and honestly again hate hers. It is

436
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: written as a joke, but I would argue that that

437
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: is just as much of a problem that he's like, hey,

438
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 1: here's a terrible way to think about women, and then like, well,

439
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: winky to the audience. Like this is funny. He's never

440
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: going to learn, like is that funny? And then later

441
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: on to Jill, this is after her book has come

442
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: out about their relationship. He opens the door and says,

443
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: I came here to strangle you. Well, sure, very funny,

444
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: great joke. Um. So the three main characters, Tracy is

445
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: just told like, you're you're right. I didn't even realize

446
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: how little we know about her other than she and

447
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 1: she sometimes has exams which we which we are to believe,

448
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 1: you know, probably Willy Alan's character doesn't know a lot

449
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: about her either because they don't discuss parts of her

450
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 1: life very often, or like he's never asked. Um. Then

451
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: we have Diane Keaton's character, who is just maybe the

452
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: most troubling of all because she's just a bunch of

453
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: smoke and mirrors in terms of a fully realized female character.

454
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: We're all, you know, all the all the elements are there,

455
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: but it's hollow and rings, totally hollow and and it

456
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: just sucks. Yeah. There are a few moments where I'm like, Okay,

457
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: I'm glad that she did this thing or says this thing. Yeah,

458
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 1: let's talk about that. Well, she there's a moment where

459
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: she's talking to a director friend of hers, and he's

460
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: talking about this movie he's directing about a man who's

461
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: such a sexual dynamo. Anytime he brings a woman to orgasm,

462
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: she dies. And she's just like, this is horrid. So

463
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: she calls him out. She calls out Yale for saying like, oh,

464
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: does your love for me always need to express itself sexually?

465
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,239
Speaker 1: Because he's all like, let's go to do a how

466
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: talent fuck and well to be fair, really, and he

467
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 1: says make love. Oh, He's sorry love anyways, And then

468
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: she's just like, what about other values like warmth and

469
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: spiritual contact? So she's like, value me in other way

470
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: besides you being able to have sex with me make love?

471
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: But again, I I feel these like which I agree

472
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: that like, her character is right in all of these issues.

473
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: But even though she sees the more aggressive behavior of

474
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: men as something she doesn't want to deal with, the

475
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: world totally writes out any of the predatory behaviors with

476
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: the person that she. You know, with Woody Allen's character

477
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: where okay, so this character is written to see very

478
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: aggressive masculinity, you know where it's like when I fuck

479
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: a woman, she comes so hard. She dies great, but

480
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: but there's a total blind spot set up for that

481
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: same character of someone she's close to fucking a kid.

482
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: You know, Like it's just and that, and that's what

483
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: traveling to be about it is with this, and I

484
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: think it extends to a lot of like Woody Allen's

485
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: female characters, even the very well written ones are the

486
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,959
Speaker 1: ones that are hailed as well written. He directs your

487
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: focus in such a specific way, and I feel like

488
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: these moments of like, oh, she's smart, she knows what

489
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: she's talking about, they're put there very deliberately for for

490
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: the sake of the story in the movie, but also

491
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: so that you notice less when she's ignoring things. And

492
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: that and her whole pursuit. I mean, she's working on

493
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: things professionally, she's a journalist. We know what she does

494
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: for a living. That's good. She's writing things, she's working

495
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: on different projects, but her seems like her main pursuit

496
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: throughout the whole movie is landing a man that she wants.

497
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: You know, it's between Yale and Woody Allen's character, and

498
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: she just keeps like going back and forth, and she

499
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: keeps saying, like I saw better, but like she's trying

500
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: to stand up for herself, but like, really she's insecure.

501
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: But it blows down to like her pursuit in this movie.

502
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: If you're just like looking at her character and her

503
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: character's goals and what she's trying to achieve, it's romance.

504
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: It's a romantic relationship, and it's I mean, sure, this

505
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: is like a romantic movie where I mean with every

506
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: character in this movie, every main character is bouncing between

507
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: two people at least, But I think her character is

508
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: is a little different in that the two male characters

509
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: to Isaac and then Yale, which like, God, hit me up,

510
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: we get it, he's smart, they both spend a lot

511
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: of their movie trying to break up with women, where

512
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: the women spend a lot of time in the movie

513
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: trying to convince the man that they are worth staying with.

514
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: That was what was more of an issue for me,

515
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: because everyone it is going between multiple people, and I

516
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: think that in theory, that's a part of the point

517
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: of like, oh love is a cloak. But there are scenes.

518
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: There's a scene between Yale and Mary where Mary is

519
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: basically just like, no, this is fine, I'm totally fine,

520
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: it's great, and then we sort of see her try

521
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: to convince him that she's worth staying with, and in

522
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: the end he does end up staying with her well,

523
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: and then as soon as they break up, she bounces

524
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: right back to right where they are each other's second

525
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: choice pretty pretty decisively, which is whatever plot point, but

526
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: that there's two different scenes where Wody on I mean

527
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: Woody is trying to break up with Mariel Hemingway pretty

528
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: much every single scene, and then she especially is constantly

529
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: trying to convince listen to me, I these are the

530
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: reasons that you should stay with me, and he's constantly

531
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: trying to leave her. So even though it's like every

532
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: character here's bouncing between multiple interests, there's never a pressure

533
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: on the man to prove to the woman what his

534
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: worth is. It's assumed that they have value, where the

535
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: female characters are kind of constantly trying to prove themselves,

536
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: which is not all surprising from a movie that is like,

537
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: I mean, Woody Allen is the king of like self

538
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: indulgent on the writer, director, actor, hero of my own

539
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: stories every single time, and he makes a point to

540
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: say like several times, and I'm sure you could argue

541
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: that these are like these are the jokes. But he's like, look,

542
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: how could I am fucking His character says it in

543
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: this movie, and I'd imagine I think it's a joke.

544
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: If Ryan Gosling says it, it's not a joke literally,

545
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: like you know, not as stereotypically alpha male is constantly

546
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: like it just doesn't read, especially if you're writing those

547
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: lines for yourself, like it's a joke if someone writes

548
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: that line for Woody Allen maybe, And there's also a

549
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: few different There's like that scene with Mary where she's like,

550
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: you have a pretty good sense of humor. He's like, well,

551
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: you don't have to tell me that. I know that, right.

552
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: He's like, I make a living off it. You dumb, right, right,

553
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: And it was like but yeah, so anyways doing a

554
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: faul like there's just like I'm great fun too. Yeah.

555
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: There's no pressure on the male characters to prove themselves

556
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: really any regard excellent point, and there's no consequences presented

557
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: to them except that they won't get fucked. Those are

558
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: the only consequences, right, There's no well there's a joke

559
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: about going into jail, but that's never never a present threat.

560
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: Another female character, I wanted to talk about who doesn't

561
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: get much screen time at all, but Emily yells wife

562
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: basically every time she's on screen, she's like, how about

563
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: we have kids? So our whole little whole thing is like,

564
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: once that kids, I want to have kids, which it's

565
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: all women can think about. I mean, if a woman

566
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: wants to have children, so much power to her. But

567
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: when you write a female character that that is apparently

568
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: the only thing on her mind and we know virtually

569
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: nothing else about that character, and is also presented as

570
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: this is why I want to leave this lady because

571
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: he's cheating on his wife. With Diane Keaton's character, Yeah,

572
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: she's like, nad kids, kids, kids, and he's like, how

573
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: about I going fuck other women instead? Number one sexist?

574
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: Number two bad writing, which is how you could really

575
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: characterize this whole movie if you wanted to. It's sexist

576
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: and it is bad writing. Do we have anything else

577
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: to say about the movie? Another thing I wanted to

578
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: talk about is how Manhattan and I would guess a

579
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: lot of Woody Allen movies based on the ones I've seen,

580
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: are extremely white. Yeah, Woody Allen's characters always seem to

581
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: be friends with only white people. There are no people

582
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: of color with any you know, significant screen time or

583
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: story beats or lines of dialogue in this movie. I

584
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: think you only see two people of color in the

585
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: entire movie who are helping him move into his new apartment,

586
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: but they don't have any lines or anything like that.

587
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: And Woody Allen is Jewish, so he's not you know,

588
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: your waspy, Protestant Anglo Saxon type of white. And I

589
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: want to acknowledge the persecution and prejudice that Jewish people

590
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: have faced throughout history and also today, but the fact

591
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: remains that Woody Allen has a habit of populating his

592
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: movies with only white people, and it's especially crazy for

593
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: this movie called Manhattan, set in Manhattan, New York City,

594
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: where are all the people of color. The other thing

595
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: I wanted to bring up is the age gap that

596
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: exists in this movie and then all cross most Hollywood movie.

597
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: I mean, this one is egregious, But then I think

598
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: is almost the only pro that we could say for

599
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: the massive age gap between Tracy and Isaac is that

600
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: at least it is pointed out, where in most movies,

601
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: I don't think it's even pointed out. You're yeah, absolutely right.

602
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 1: So I'm taking some stats from an article from Vulture

603
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: in I'm sure things have gotten better since the better

604
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: The title of the article is leading men age, but

605
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: their love interests don't pointing out that, Like you know,

606
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: Hollywood stars who are men get older because that's how

607
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: time works. But they're female kind of parts. The love

608
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: interests of their characters pretty much the same age, which

609
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: tends to be late twenties, early to mid thirties. Um,

610
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: Harrison Ford, he just started that new movie play runner

611
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: for nine. Uh and there, Yeah, I mean it's just

612
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: all the sorry it took me a second, was like

613
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 1: what you said. And he's still allowed to start in movies.

614
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 1: Get Harrison FOURD out of movies. He is not allowed anymore.

615
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: Give out, I retire, bitch, Harrison Ford, bitch retire. I'm

616
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: fine with Harrison Ford. Harrison for bitch retire. But he

617
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: is listed in this article as someone who has love

618
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: and test that do not get much older, and then

619
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: he usually has a pretty huge age gap, with the

620
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: closest one, it seems, was when he was in Writers

621
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: of the Lost Arc he was thirty eight, his love

622
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: interest Karen Allen was twenty nine. Harrison Ford bitch retired.

623
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: Crazy age difference was when he was in Six Days,

624
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: Seven Nights, and and hait was twenty nine and he

625
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: was fifty five, so he got older. His love interest

626
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: was still in her late twenties. Other examples, So Johnny

627
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 1: Depp is a heinous piece of shit. But yeah, Johnny

628
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: Depp bitch retired. Yeah, that one literally gonna Joel. However,

629
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 1: he is one of my favorite movies, Shock a lot.

630
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: He is thirty seven. I hate that Alfred Willina had

631
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: to even meet him. I don't know if they have

632
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: any do they have scenes together? Maybe they don't, I

633
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: don't remember, let me watch it. But he is thirty

634
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: seven in that character in his love interest, Juliet Banosh,

635
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: she's thirty six, So there's only one year age difference,

636
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: which is that you don't get a trophy for that. No, No,

637
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 1: because in Transcendence he's forty nine and Rebecca Hall is thirty.

638
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: So that's you know, full on, we're we're at daddy's

639
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: status at that point. Totally. It's Tom Cruise also bade

640
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: George pretty bad Old Brother. We aren't though, another one

641
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 1: of my favorite movies. He's thirty nine and his wife

642
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: played by Holly Hunter in that movie is forty two,

643
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: so she's three years older than him. Amazing. Richard Gear

644
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: is another one. Richard Gear dribble butt theory, look it up,

645
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:39,479
Speaker 1: Brad Pitt, Liam Neeson, Tom Hanks. Actually they point out

646
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 1: that he tends to be with age appropriate women in

647
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: his movies. Well there's that, there's one there, Woody Allen.

648
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, there's no way you can spend that

649
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: the relationship between he and Mariel Hemingley's character to make

650
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: it good. But the age difference is acknowledged, and we're

651
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: in those movies. It's not even it's it's an assumed thing, right,

652
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 1: It's just like, of course, this handsome older man would

653
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 1: have a young twenty or more years younger than him

654
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: love interests. And then I think that in movies very commonly,

655
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: if if the inverse does occur, it is immediately acknowledged

656
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: and made as a point of like this is like,

657
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: why would a young, handsome young man want to be

658
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 1: involved with an older woman. I rewatched Nightcrawler. I haven't

659
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: seen that. It is very good. It's in reeks of

660
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: toxic masculinity, but it's it's it's I like it a lot.

661
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: So Jake gillen Hall's character, who we're supposed to think

662
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: is in his late twenties early thirties, is interested in

663
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: Rene Russa's character, who's I think supposed to be in

664
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: her forties or fifties, and he pursues her, and it's

665
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: constantly their age difference is constantly brought up because she's like,

666
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: why would you want to be with me, I'm too old,

667
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 1: and he's like, I'm I'm secure enough to be with

668
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: an older woman, where that's never the issue in the inverse,

669
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 1: like a younger woman never has to say I'm secure

670
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: enough with myself to be with an older man. It's

671
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: just assumed that that it's gonna happen. Well, so okay, Cupid.

672
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: You know they do all their like analytics of dating patterns,

673
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: thoughts and feelings, and they compiled a graph it's like, oh,

674
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,479
Speaker 1: a woman's age versus the age of the men she's

675
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: attracted to, and it's basically they tend to be attracted

676
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 1: to men very close to their same age. That's generally, like,

677
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,839
Speaker 1: I mean, a direct correlation. Men are gross I think

678
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: not true because as the and this of course is

679
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: you know, very hetero. This is, you know, for hetero relationships,

680
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: but a man's age versus the women he's attracted to

681
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: is no matter how old he is, we don't crack.

682
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,720
Speaker 1: We did not crack all the way up to fifty

683
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 1: because they ask what age of women are you most

684
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: attracted to? And no matter how old a man is,

685
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: they only much always say either between twenty and twenty

686
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 1: three pretty much fucking kids, which I can't I guess

687
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to say so just and it makes

688
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: so I wonder, is this because men are conditioned to

689
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: seeing depictions of older men in media with a younger

690
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: women and also kind of a complete omission of any

691
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 1: woman their age, right of course, Yeah, this is the

692
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: thing we talked about a lot on the podcast, where

693
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: rarely do we see women on the screen who are

694
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: you know, forties, fifties, sixties. So often, you know, women

695
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: in movies are super young. The implication we can draw

696
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 1: from that is no one wants to see an older

697
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: woman on the screen, no one cares about their stories,

698
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 1: And of course that's not true, but we're conditioned to

699
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: think that because we see so much, we consume so

700
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: much media where women of a certain age are ignored ignored.

701
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: Oh wow, this is deeply and to everyone who's like,

702
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: oh well, men are tried to do younger women because

703
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: they have a biological imperian because younger women are more

704
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: fertile and they want to put babies in them. Fuck,

705
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: we have population issues, bitch, retire, grow up. So basically

706
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 1: the point we want to make is the in recent

707
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,919
Speaker 1: days weeks, a lot of women have come forward calling

708
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: out different men specifically. So I started with Harvey Weinstein

709
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: in this most recent sort of news cycle, although at

710
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 1: this point I've honestly lost track. I believe the founder

711
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,720
Speaker 1: of Just for Laughs was forced out of his position,

712
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: the sitting CEO of Amazon Studios was pushed out of

713
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 1: his position. It's interesting because it's like, we have people

714
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: like Woody On, like Johnny Depp whose names are very

715
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: recognizable to us, and then there are people whose names

716
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: we don't know because they're manipulating behind the scenes, whose

717
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: names are coming out as well. It's a lot. It's

718
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: a ton screen Dunkies. I don't know exactly who, but

719
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: someone affiliated with Screen Drinkies several allegations brought against him.

720
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 1: It's everywhere, it's everywhere. It's encouraging that women are coming

721
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: forward and action is being taken against many of these people,

722
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein being fired, people losing their jobs and not

723
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: being allowed to work in Hollywood anymore. Um, and there's

724
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 1: a lot of work left to do, and it's painful

725
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: to have to read these accounts, but feels, you know, important.

726
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: We hope everyone's looking out for yourself, taken care of

727
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: yourself through all this, and we you know, obviously applaud

728
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: all the victims who are coming forward because it is

729
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: so hard to do, so hard to do, and all

730
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: the writers who have been able to get those stories

731
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: out because that's also so hard to do. And not

732
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: to say that, you know, there I'm sure plenty of

733
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: victims who are not ready. Things have happened, they're not

734
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: ready to come forward about it, and so it's not

735
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: to say that they're not brave, you know, they're like

736
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: and then it drives me nuts just the emotional labor

737
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 1: that any victims have to go through to be like,

738
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 1: this thing happened to me, and I you know, I'm

739
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: revealing it and I'm I'm coming public with it, and

740
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: then just the burden shouldn't be on victims to come

741
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: like the burden should be on sexual predators to not

742
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: fucking be sexual predators, right, But that's never that's never

743
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 1: going to have happened. And so it falls upon the

744
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: people who are these just awful things are happening to

745
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 1: them to also then be the ones to have to

746
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: relive it over and over and over in order for

747
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 1: any consequence to happen, Which brings me to just some

748
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 1: food for that, because I feel like for years and

749
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 1: years and years since the Wady Allen allegation, service, since

750
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: the Bill Cosby allegation surfaces, there's always a lot of

751
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: talk of like, how can we separate the art from

752
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: the artists? Can I still enjoy Bill Cosby's stand up?

753
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: Can I still joy this movie about Woody Allen? Fucking kid? Honestly?

754
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: And I have heard a lot of mostly men, some women,

755
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: mostly men, explain to me their views on why they

756
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 1: think that, you know, but I I personally am at

757
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 1: a point where I think separating art from artists at

758
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: this point it's just like a dangerous precedent to set.

759
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 1: It allows predators to continue making art without consequence. We

760
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 1: are not at a lack for artists in the world.

761
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 1: There are a lot of artists with a lot of

762
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: important things to say, and I think that saying that,

763
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 1: you know, if you're an artist and a predator, you

764
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: can't you can't. There are a lot of voices that

765
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: need to be heard that will gladly occupy that space

766
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: who aren't sexual predators or not predators. There should be

767
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: consequences for everyone. There's no way Woody Allen should be

768
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: allowed to be making movies. Uh, there's no way that

769
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 1: Bill Cosby should be on any stage at any time

770
00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: unless that stage as a court and he's being sent

771
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 1: to Yale. Don't see Louis Kan's new movie, which is

772
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: the clearest homage to Manhattan that you will find just bad, bad,

773
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 1: bad bad, Hey, Caitlin, Yes, does Manhattan pass the back

774
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 1: to Manhattan does pass the bad? But it passes in

775
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: the most disturbing exchange from All Tide. So the scene

776
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: it's Mary, Isaac, Yale, and Tracy all walking down the street.

777
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 1: Mary and Tracy when they meet, they say like hi, Hello,

778
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: That barely comes as a conversation, and later on, later on,

779
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 1: Mary says, what do you do Tracy? Tracy says, I

780
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: go to high school? He really? So, you know, three

781
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: adults and then one teenager are just hanging out and

782
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: Mary's like, hey, what do you do for a living?

783
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: Tracy's like I study for my English sucking exams? Yeah,

784
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: that what a pass? Good for you? Oh well, we

785
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,439
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed this bonus I would call I would

786
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,439
Speaker 1: say this is an emergency bonus. Yeah, this is an

787
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:25,760
Speaker 1: emergency episode of the Beck Dol Cast. Thanks for listening

788
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: if you If you want a regular bonus episode, you

789
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 1: can sign up for Patreon at patreon dot com slash

790
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 1: back Doel Cast, where we do to bonus episodes a

791
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: month that are you know, they may be as painful

792
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: as this one. They may not be You'll have to

793
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 1: probably not sign out. They'll probably be a little less

794
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 1: us screaming. But also if you don't like that, why

795
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: are you listening to this show? Grow up bitch retire?

796
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: So yeah, check us out. You can go to our website.

797
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: You can pledge a five dollars a month on Patreon

798
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: to get exclusive content and that helps us out with

799
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: our production costs and all of that. You can follow

800
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: us on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook. Funk Off Willy Allen,

801
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: funk Off, Willy and funk Off, Harveerty Weinstein and funk

802
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 1: off any sexual predator in Hollywood and everywhere. If you're

803
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: a man, be fucking helpful. Help everyone else. Keep your

804
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 1: head up, listen and believe women and value women. Love you,

805
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: Bye bye,