WEBVTT - Jing Gao: Bringing Chinese Flavor to Supermarket Shelves 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:22.476 Pushkin. If you look closely enough at any success story, 0:00:22.636 --> 0:00:26.636 you'll see a lot of failure. Things go wrong, partner 0:00:26.676 --> 0:00:30.316 split up, businesses fall apart, and the story of my 0:00:30.356 --> 0:00:36.476 guest today, Jing Gao is no different. Jing's the founder 0:00:36.556 --> 0:00:39.276 of fly By Jing, a line of chili crisp and 0:00:39.356 --> 0:00:43.196 other condiments sold nationwide. After she lost her first food 0:00:43.236 --> 0:00:46.036 business to a former partner, Jing set out to create 0:00:46.076 --> 0:00:48.836 something that was all her own and that would create 0:00:48.876 --> 0:00:53.916 space for the appreciation of Chinese food in America. That's 0:00:53.916 --> 0:00:57.596 how fly By Jing was born. It became a success 0:00:57.836 --> 0:01:02.356 through overcoming a series of obstacles. Jing Gao drops some 0:01:02.436 --> 0:01:04.956 gems in this interview, So I recommend you get your 0:01:04.956 --> 0:01:09.076 notepad out and pay attention. This has started from the bio, 0:01:09.916 --> 0:01:16.956 hard earned success stories from people like us. Maybe you 0:01:16.996 --> 0:01:19.396 could tell me a little bit about your childhood. You 0:01:19.396 --> 0:01:20.276 grow up in Chungdu. 0:01:20.596 --> 0:01:23.556 Yeah, so I was born in Chungdu. It's the capital 0:01:23.596 --> 0:01:28.076 of Sichuan. And China is crazy about food, right everywhere 0:01:28.076 --> 0:01:30.036 in China. And China is as big as a continent, 0:01:30.356 --> 0:01:33.756 it is as big as Europe, right, and so there's 0:01:33.836 --> 0:01:38.156 so many different regional cuisines. There's so many culinary traditions. 0:01:38.516 --> 0:01:41.596 And even with all of that going on, like Cichuan 0:01:41.836 --> 0:01:44.236 is known as like the foodiest of all the foody places. 0:01:44.836 --> 0:01:47.236 People are just like absolutely crazy about food. 0:01:47.316 --> 0:01:50.036 Yeah, would you say, it's a big part of the culture. 0:01:50.236 --> 0:01:53.116 Huge part of the culture. People are just born, like 0:01:53.196 --> 0:01:58.476 your baseline, born as like a food obsessed individual, and yeah, 0:01:58.556 --> 0:02:03.236 people live for food. Tichran is also a super leisurely 0:02:03.436 --> 0:02:06.636 type of place. It's very different from cities like Beijing 0:02:06.716 --> 0:02:09.476 and Shanghai, where people are always on the go, and 0:02:09.556 --> 0:02:13.396 just like very fast paced, Chundu is slow. People are 0:02:13.436 --> 0:02:17.836 all about the art of living. They're always playing majong 0:02:17.916 --> 0:02:21.556 in the park, drinking tea, you know, having long dinners 0:02:21.596 --> 0:02:25.156 over hot pot. And I was there until I was 0:02:25.196 --> 0:02:28.796 about five, and my father, who was a nuclear physicist 0:02:28.876 --> 0:02:32.156 at the time, became a professor and he was asked 0:02:32.196 --> 0:02:34.476 to go and teach at universities in Europe, and so 0:02:34.516 --> 0:02:37.356 we moved with him to Europe when I was about five. 0:02:37.796 --> 0:02:38.676 Where do you guys move? 0:02:39.236 --> 0:02:41.836 We moved to Germany. So I went to first grade 0:02:41.916 --> 0:02:44.996 in Germany in the Black Forest. I was the only 0:02:45.476 --> 0:02:49.236 non blonde kid at school. I of course didn't understand 0:02:49.356 --> 0:02:52.756 a word, and I didn't understand a word for the 0:02:52.876 --> 0:02:56.156 entire year that I was there, and I think I 0:02:56.236 --> 0:02:59.556 had just started to pick up some German a year 0:02:59.636 --> 0:03:04.156 in when my dad changed to another university in England, 0:03:04.196 --> 0:03:06.556 and so we moved to England then, and I started 0:03:06.596 --> 0:03:09.996 all over again with English and you know, kind of 0:03:10.316 --> 0:03:13.636 finding my way around a new country, a new culture, 0:03:13.996 --> 0:03:17.716 new kids who were again like did not look like me, 0:03:18.236 --> 0:03:21.116 and did this kind of on repeat for a few 0:03:21.116 --> 0:03:26.476 more years, to Austria, France, and Italy, and then finally 0:03:26.516 --> 0:03:29.956 we moved to Canada, to Toronto, specific Toronto. 0:03:30.116 --> 0:03:31.876 Yeah, and how old are you at that point? 0:03:31.956 --> 0:03:34.956 I think I was in like middle school, almost high. 0:03:34.836 --> 0:03:37.396 School and you settled there, right, Yeah, So. 0:03:37.316 --> 0:03:40.396 We ended up living there for I mean, my parents 0:03:40.436 --> 0:03:44.316 were still there and we became Canadians. I went to university, 0:03:44.956 --> 0:03:47.116 came out and started working in Canada as well, So 0:03:47.156 --> 0:03:48.916 it was like the longest I'd lived anywhere. 0:03:49.276 --> 0:03:51.956 At some point along the way, you you started going 0:03:51.996 --> 0:03:54.556 by by Jenny, right, Yeah. 0:03:54.236 --> 0:03:58.356 So that happened pretty early. I think I was six 0:03:59.356 --> 0:04:04.996 or seven, and I just remember feeling like I needed 0:04:05.036 --> 0:04:08.716 something to try to fit in, I needed something to 0:04:08.716 --> 0:04:13.156 make me appear less foreign, and I figured Jenny was 0:04:13.276 --> 0:04:15.636 the best way to do that because my name Jing 0:04:15.796 --> 0:04:19.076 schren Gal was just impossible for the kids to pronounce. 0:04:19.156 --> 0:04:21.836 So I don't know where I came up with the name, 0:04:21.876 --> 0:04:25.076 but it sounded western enough, and so I went with it. 0:04:25.076 --> 0:04:28.276 It's interesting because, I mean, you clearly spent enough time 0:04:28.716 --> 0:04:32.716 in China to start to develop and identity, even if 0:04:32.716 --> 0:04:36.596 you weren't aware necessarily what your identity was, and then 0:04:36.636 --> 0:04:43.196 you moved to these really homogeneous places. How did that 0:04:43.236 --> 0:04:46.356 affect a perception of what it means to be Chinese? 0:04:47.516 --> 0:04:51.636 I mean, I think I tried not to be. I 0:04:51.796 --> 0:04:56.916 was young enough and adaptable enough that it was pretty 0:04:56.956 --> 0:04:59.396 easy for me to code switch. I think it's also 0:04:59.516 --> 0:05:02.716 just in my nature to try to blend in, you know. 0:05:02.796 --> 0:05:05.476 I think it felt more comfortable for me. It was 0:05:05.516 --> 0:05:08.316 like a shield that I had, no matter what situation 0:05:08.396 --> 0:05:12.076 I was in. So I didn't realize until much later 0:05:12.156 --> 0:05:14.996 just how much of myself I had kind of buried. 0:05:16.116 --> 0:05:19.236 There were there conversations around your house or expectations about 0:05:19.276 --> 0:05:22.676 where you might sort of go to school and sort 0:05:22.676 --> 0:05:23.956 of make a career for yourself. 0:05:24.156 --> 0:05:26.796 I actually wanted to go to art school and I. 0:05:27.076 --> 0:05:30.236 My parents were like hard, no, like, there's no way 0:05:30.276 --> 0:05:32.116 you're going to do that. And so I think we 0:05:32.236 --> 0:05:34.956 found a middle ground somehow in business school. 0:05:35.596 --> 0:05:39.476 And this sounds quite like a middle ground. I'm gonna 0:05:39.516 --> 0:05:41.356 say it sounds like you conceded. 0:05:43.636 --> 0:05:45.556 But I think I had like there was like an 0:05:45.596 --> 0:05:48.116 older girl I knew who went to business school and 0:05:48.156 --> 0:05:49.996 I thought that was so cool, and I was like, yeah, 0:05:49.996 --> 0:05:51.476 I want to do that, and I want to carry 0:05:51.476 --> 0:05:54.596 a briefcase and you know, look important when I'm walking 0:05:54.636 --> 0:05:57.556 down down the street. And I had no idea what 0:05:57.556 --> 0:06:01.116 business school was going to be like either. And when 0:06:01.116 --> 0:06:03.956 I came out of school, my first job was actually 0:06:03.996 --> 0:06:06.996 at a giant company, Procter and Gamble, which my parents 0:06:07.036 --> 0:06:07.956 were really happy about. 0:06:08.156 --> 0:06:09.756 What's your job at Proctic? In Gamble? 0:06:10.116 --> 0:06:13.556 So I was a brand manager. And at Procter and 0:06:13.596 --> 0:06:16.596 Gamble they owned so many different brands, right, each of 0:06:16.636 --> 0:06:20.276 them has kind of a brand manager that helms the 0:06:20.276 --> 0:06:23.916 brand sort of and grows its market share over like 0:06:23.996 --> 0:06:24.596 year over year. 0:06:24.876 --> 0:06:27.356 Did it feel satisfying? Did it feel like you had 0:06:27.396 --> 0:06:28.956 found your thing? 0:06:30.556 --> 0:06:32.476 I think it was a really great training ground for 0:06:32.556 --> 0:06:37.316 someone fresh out of school, But pretty quickly I got bored. 0:06:37.796 --> 0:06:39.716 You know, they have a way that they've been doing 0:06:39.756 --> 0:06:42.836 things for one hundred years, and there's not that many 0:06:42.876 --> 0:06:44.716 ways that you can kind of deviate and do your 0:06:44.756 --> 0:06:47.876 own thing outside of that. So after I would say 0:06:47.916 --> 0:06:50.316 like a year year and a half, I kind of 0:06:50.836 --> 0:06:53.476 got what I could out of it, and I didn't 0:06:53.756 --> 0:06:57.356 see myself there long term. So I started looking at, 0:06:57.436 --> 0:06:59.876 you know, what else I could be doing. And so 0:07:00.116 --> 0:07:03.236 actually my last year of college, I did an exchange 0:07:03.276 --> 0:07:07.316 semester in Beijing. I stayed there for about six months, 0:07:07.916 --> 0:07:10.196 and that was kind of my first time in China 0:07:10.236 --> 0:07:15.196 as an adult, and I was really surprised by what 0:07:15.276 --> 0:07:18.276 I saw, Like I went into that experience not expecting 0:07:18.556 --> 0:07:22.916 to love it as much as I did. I felt 0:07:23.076 --> 0:07:28.276 at that point so disconnected from China. But I found 0:07:28.276 --> 0:07:33.916 myself in Beijing and was just shocked by how incredible 0:07:33.956 --> 0:07:35.716 the city was. This was right around the time of 0:07:35.756 --> 0:07:38.876 the Olympics. China felt like it was opening up. There 0:07:38.956 --> 0:07:42.876 was so much energy, excitement in the air. You just 0:07:42.916 --> 0:07:45.716 met the most interesting people from all walks of life, 0:07:46.156 --> 0:07:48.916 from all cultures, you know, all of them just found 0:07:48.916 --> 0:07:52.036 themselves in China at the time. And so I became 0:07:52.156 --> 0:07:55.676 hooked to that energy. And when I went back and 0:07:55.676 --> 0:07:59.276 started working at in Toronto at P ANDNG, it just 0:07:59.316 --> 0:08:02.956 felt like night and day and I couldn't stop thinking 0:08:03.036 --> 0:08:07.516 about China and yeah, so at the first chance I got, 0:08:07.516 --> 0:08:11.836 I quit my job and moved to Beijing. Then a 0:08:11.876 --> 0:08:14.916 friend of mine from Toronto hit me up and he 0:08:14.996 --> 0:08:17.836 was working for BlackBerry at the time. So this was 0:08:18.316 --> 0:08:22.156 actually before iPhones like became the number one smartphone because 0:08:22.196 --> 0:08:25.196 Blackberries were at the time, and he was like, I'm 0:08:25.556 --> 0:08:28.996 moving to Asia to start up the business in Singapore. 0:08:29.196 --> 0:08:31.716 Do you want to come and work for me? And 0:08:32.076 --> 0:08:36.316 I was like, yes, sign me up. So I started 0:08:36.316 --> 0:08:39.996 working for BlackBerry and did some work for them in Beijing, 0:08:40.076 --> 0:08:45.396 and then it brought me to Singapore. And that's how 0:08:45.396 --> 0:08:47.596 I also kind of got into food because I just 0:08:47.716 --> 0:08:51.836 like was traveling so much across China across Asia that 0:08:52.476 --> 0:08:54.436 when I wasn't working, I was eating and I was 0:08:54.476 --> 0:08:59.156 exploring and started a food blog on the side. I 0:08:59.156 --> 0:09:03.076 think I always enjoyed good food, but it was never 0:09:03.476 --> 0:09:06.156 in the foreground of my life, Like I don't think 0:09:06.916 --> 0:09:10.516 my palette was really awakened until I went to China 0:09:10.516 --> 0:09:10.796 in my. 0:09:10.756 --> 0:09:13.796 Twenties, when did you decide to start working in food 0:09:13.836 --> 0:09:14.396 full time? 0:09:15.396 --> 0:09:20.116 So I moved to Singapore with BlackBerry, then moved back 0:09:20.156 --> 0:09:23.356 to China and with a different job I was. I 0:09:23.396 --> 0:09:28.316 was in Shanghai. When I was there, I had started 0:09:28.316 --> 0:09:31.396 to spend a lot more time on food. I had 0:09:31.556 --> 0:09:35.756 my blog going. I had a lot of chefs reach 0:09:35.796 --> 0:09:37.796 out when they would come to China wanted me to 0:09:37.796 --> 0:09:40.716 take them around. I took Eddie Kwang around Shanghai Andrew 0:09:40.796 --> 0:09:42.116 Zimmer and so I was on their show. 0:09:42.276 --> 0:09:44.116 Wait a second, but so then how did they How 0:09:44.116 --> 0:09:44.636 did they know. 0:09:44.676 --> 0:09:46.476 You just through my blog? I guess you know. 0:09:46.516 --> 0:09:48.556 So your blog got pretty pretty big. 0:09:48.676 --> 0:09:50.596 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like one of the few, 0:09:50.836 --> 0:09:54.996 like English language blogs about Chinese food in China. So 0:09:55.516 --> 0:09:56.956 I had a lot of people reaching out to me 0:09:56.996 --> 0:09:58.916 all the time. I was like starting to do food 0:09:59.036 --> 0:10:02.276 like more with food media, and I think at one 0:10:02.316 --> 0:10:05.276 point I just kind of knew I was ready to 0:10:05.396 --> 0:10:10.316 go into food full time. So when I left my job, 0:10:10.516 --> 0:10:12.556 I did not know what I was going to do. 0:10:12.756 --> 0:10:15.916 But I was like working on a number of different things, 0:10:16.516 --> 0:10:22.556 writing projects and media projects. But not long after I 0:10:22.556 --> 0:10:26.516 met my business partner in my next venture, which was 0:10:26.756 --> 0:10:30.796 my first restaurant. I flirted with the idea of opening 0:10:30.836 --> 0:10:35.076 a restaurant. I never I couldn't conceive of like actually 0:10:35.116 --> 0:10:38.796 doing it. You know, it just seemed like something so 0:10:39.316 --> 0:10:43.596 out of reach. But I met this person who had 0:10:43.876 --> 0:10:46.076 a lot of resources and also wanted to open a 0:10:46.116 --> 0:10:49.636 restaurant but kind of didn't really have the idea for it. 0:10:49.716 --> 0:10:53.876 And I was like, well, I have lots of ideas. 0:10:52.876 --> 0:10:53.356 And. 0:10:54.636 --> 0:10:58.316 You know, we ended up opening the first modern Chinese 0:10:58.396 --> 0:11:03.076 fast casual restaurant in Shanghai that was like celebrating regional 0:11:03.116 --> 0:11:03.916 Chinese cuisines. 0:11:04.276 --> 0:11:04.476 Wow. 0:11:05.436 --> 0:11:08.076 It was called Baoism, and we opened that, I think 0:11:08.076 --> 0:11:10.316 in two thousand fifteen. 0:11:10.996 --> 0:11:12.596 What did you learn from that experience? 0:11:14.076 --> 0:11:17.316 So much? It was actually my first you know, entrepreneurial experience, 0:11:17.796 --> 0:11:21.436 and through that process, I think I learned so many things. 0:11:21.436 --> 0:11:23.716 But one of them was also the importance of like 0:11:23.796 --> 0:11:27.996 picking the right business partner. Because my business partner at 0:11:27.996 --> 0:11:31.276 the time, you know, who put up all the resources, 0:11:31.436 --> 0:11:33.956 was like, one day after we had opened and it 0:11:33.996 --> 0:11:38.036 was very successful, was like, you know, I think I 0:11:38.036 --> 0:11:42.556 don't need you anymore in this business, and egos got 0:11:42.556 --> 0:11:45.676 in the way and he figured that he could you 0:11:45.836 --> 0:11:47.956 do it? Without me, and so it was a really 0:11:48.036 --> 0:11:50.596 important lesson to learn, as like, you know, a twenty 0:11:50.596 --> 0:11:53.916 something year old who had no idea how to like 0:11:54.196 --> 0:11:57.516 structure or business partnership properly. It was a big lesson. 0:11:57.756 --> 0:12:00.116 And the russaurant was very successful. You know, we had 0:12:00.156 --> 0:12:02.956 won awards, We were covered in New York Magazine, we 0:12:02.956 --> 0:12:05.796 were in Monocle, we were in like wallpaper Guide to Shanghai. 0:12:05.916 --> 0:12:08.156 It was it really reached a lot of people, and 0:12:08.236 --> 0:12:10.836 I wanted to do that even more and with something 0:12:11.116 --> 0:12:13.036 tangible and that was personal to me. 0:12:13.396 --> 0:12:15.636 At this point, Was there any bit of you that 0:12:15.756 --> 0:12:18.556 was doubting your move into the food world. 0:12:18.756 --> 0:12:22.756 I mean I was definitely scared. I didn't allow myself 0:12:22.916 --> 0:12:28.556 to sit still enough to really process how scared, shitless 0:12:28.556 --> 0:12:32.116 I was. I had just spent you know, two and 0:12:32.116 --> 0:12:34.796 a half years of my life on this restaurant that 0:12:34.836 --> 0:12:36.556 I thought was my baby, that was going to be 0:12:36.596 --> 0:12:39.556 my future. I saw so much of my own identity 0:12:39.596 --> 0:12:43.396 tied up into it. When I lost that, it just 0:12:43.476 --> 0:12:46.756 felt like, you know, everything was kind of in a 0:12:46.876 --> 0:12:49.476 very quick, shocking way, like pulled out from under me. 0:12:50.276 --> 0:12:54.636 But I didn't allow myself to really process that trauma, 0:12:55.076 --> 0:12:58.396 and I jumped right into the next thing, and that 0:12:58.516 --> 0:13:00.636 was the only thing that I knew how to do, 0:13:00.756 --> 0:13:02.276 and it was the only way I could cope. 0:13:02.436 --> 0:13:04.756 So you literally just jumped into the kitchen and just 0:13:04.796 --> 0:13:07.756 start making dishes. And I learned a lot, right. 0:13:07.716 --> 0:13:12.796 Like pretty quickly. I started to just cook, and I 0:13:12.836 --> 0:13:16.076 started an underground supper club which I named fly by Jing. 0:13:16.276 --> 0:13:17.116 Why fly by Jing? 0:13:17.196 --> 0:13:22.436 By the way, so Chungdu giant food city. It's famous 0:13:22.476 --> 0:13:25.236 actually for a type of restaurant called fly restaurants like 0:13:25.356 --> 0:13:28.836 tengu got and literally translates to a fly restaurant, and 0:13:28.916 --> 0:13:32.836 it's a type of restaurant that is hidden hole in 0:13:32.876 --> 0:13:38.276 the walls mom and pop run and they're so named 0:13:38.396 --> 0:13:41.076 because they're said to be so delicious that they attract 0:13:41.076 --> 0:13:44.916 people like flies. So even though they're hidden, they never 0:13:44.956 --> 0:13:49.756 do any marketing. It's you know, zero atmosphere. People seek 0:13:49.756 --> 0:13:53.236 it out like flies because it's so delicious, and so 0:13:53.716 --> 0:13:57.196 I wanted to capture that energy in the dinners that 0:13:57.236 --> 0:14:00.556 I was putting on. And then the Jing was an 0:14:00.636 --> 0:14:02.476 ode to my birth name, which at the time I 0:14:02.556 --> 0:14:06.156 was still uncomfortable with, and I still went by Jenny, 0:14:06.236 --> 0:14:08.516 but I think I was already starting to kind of 0:14:08.556 --> 0:14:11.436 reach for thing that was personal, right, and that was 0:14:12.116 --> 0:14:15.596 that felt like me. After having my restaurant being taken 0:14:15.596 --> 0:14:18.476 away from me, I think I wanted to be very 0:14:18.516 --> 0:14:22.956 clear that this was by Jing, you know, And so 0:14:23.316 --> 0:14:26.316 that was how it started. So I would cook for 0:14:26.516 --> 0:14:29.996 about twenty people at a time every night. I would 0:14:30.036 --> 0:14:34.836 start doing pop ups with chefs around Shanghai, and very 0:14:34.916 --> 0:14:36.956 quickly kind of word spread and I started doing pop 0:14:36.996 --> 0:14:39.316 ups in cities all over the world. I was invited 0:14:39.356 --> 0:14:44.596 to cook in like New Zealand, in Australia, in New York, La, Tokyo. 0:14:45.356 --> 0:14:48.076 And you know, when I would collaborate with other chefs, 0:14:48.116 --> 0:14:52.556 we would create new spins on the cuisines. And so 0:14:52.916 --> 0:14:55.116 when I would collaborate with like a Mexican chef or 0:14:55.116 --> 0:14:57.316 an Italian chef, for example, we would just like really 0:14:57.516 --> 0:15:02.316 remix the flavors on new canvases, you know, on local 0:15:02.436 --> 0:15:07.836 ingredients wherever I was. And that's kind of, you know, 0:15:07.876 --> 0:15:08.996 where I started to find my foot. 0:15:10.916 --> 0:15:13.636 Jing's a risk taker who left her job twice to 0:15:13.676 --> 0:15:17.836 try her hand at the food industry. I'm supremely impressed 0:15:17.836 --> 0:15:21.596 by the kind of courage that takes don't go anywhere more. 0:15:21.636 --> 0:15:33.836 We Jing Gao. After the break, Jing's blog and Suparate 0:15:33.836 --> 0:15:36.276 Club really gave her the platform she needed to feel 0:15:36.276 --> 0:15:39.196 like she could put herself back into the entrepreneurial world again. 0:15:39.756 --> 0:15:43.356 But of course it wasn't without its challenges. We have 0:15:43.436 --> 0:15:44.516 more from Jingau. 0:15:45.356 --> 0:15:48.116 I knew that I didn't want to do a traditional 0:15:48.196 --> 0:15:53.116 restaurant model. I wanted something that could reach even more people, 0:15:53.196 --> 0:15:55.836 be scalable. I don't think at the time I thought 0:15:55.876 --> 0:15:58.596 a consumer packash could. I think it wasn't until like 0:15:58.676 --> 0:16:02.996 twenty eighteen that I started to actually think about a product. 0:16:03.476 --> 0:16:08.276 I visited California, actually went to a trade show called 0:16:08.556 --> 0:16:12.836 Natural Product Sex but West, which happens in Anaheim every March, 0:16:12.996 --> 0:16:18.516 and it's like the biggest collection of consumer food brands. 0:16:19.556 --> 0:16:24.116 I walked this show for four days and saw thousands 0:16:24.156 --> 0:16:28.836 of vendors, just endless rows of food brands, and I 0:16:28.876 --> 0:16:32.756 walked away from it feeling like really shocked. And I 0:16:33.756 --> 0:16:36.276 just was like craving Asian flavors, and I was like, 0:16:36.276 --> 0:16:38.436 why do I just want a bowl of noodles right now? 0:16:39.076 --> 0:16:41.316 And I realized it was because after like four days 0:16:41.316 --> 0:16:43.476 of walking around this hall, like I didn't have any 0:16:43.516 --> 0:16:47.036 Asian flavors, and this was supposed to be the future 0:16:47.196 --> 0:16:50.756 of you know, healthy natural eating in America, right, Like 0:16:50.796 --> 0:16:53.316 these are the brands that buyers are going to be 0:16:53.316 --> 0:16:57.236 putting on shelves at your whole foods, And so that 0:16:57.436 --> 0:17:01.676 felt not right to me. I felt like something was missing, 0:17:01.716 --> 0:17:05.596 and there was a giant opportunity I felt because there 0:17:05.676 --> 0:17:10.756 are fifty thousand Chinese restaurants in America. It's actually the 0:17:10.796 --> 0:17:14.236 most number of restaurants of any cuisine, wow, and actually 0:17:14.236 --> 0:17:18.196 of any like fast food chain combined. It is an 0:17:18.236 --> 0:17:23.716 incredible number of Chinese restaurants and it's clearly a testament 0:17:23.756 --> 0:17:26.156 to how popular the cuisine is. But yet when you 0:17:26.196 --> 0:17:29.316 go and look on store shelves, you really don't see 0:17:29.316 --> 0:17:34.556 that same representation or accessibility. And I knew that. You know, 0:17:34.596 --> 0:17:36.996 the reason why they weren't in the West was because 0:17:37.076 --> 0:17:41.476 there was no demand, but that stemmed from like that 0:17:41.516 --> 0:17:44.516 are not being any awareness, any education, Like people have 0:17:44.676 --> 0:17:47.836 no concept of these incredible ingredients. And of course, if 0:17:47.876 --> 0:17:51.476 all you see is like low quality, mass produced products, 0:17:51.476 --> 0:17:54.796 that's what you associate with Chinese food. The time, you know, 0:17:54.836 --> 0:17:57.036 I was I was cooking, and I was building all 0:17:57.076 --> 0:17:59.996 these sauces in my pantry, and like one of them 0:18:00.196 --> 0:18:04.556 was the Sochuan Chili Crisp, and I started to bottle 0:18:04.956 --> 0:18:07.436 some of them and give it away to friends. 0:18:07.076 --> 0:18:10.676 And chili crisp is this secific kind of sauce. You 0:18:10.676 --> 0:18:12.276 can explain what the chili crisp is. 0:18:12.476 --> 0:18:18.116 Yeah, So chili crisp is a spicy, savory, sort of 0:18:18.756 --> 0:18:23.116 crispy textured hot sauce that is an oil based sauce 0:18:23.476 --> 0:18:26.996 and it's made by heating up oil and cooking dried 0:18:27.076 --> 0:18:30.756 chilies and a number of different like aromatics and different ingredients, 0:18:30.756 --> 0:18:33.916 and that becomes a condiment. It's almost like a hot 0:18:33.916 --> 0:18:37.236 sauce that you can really put on anything. And in China, 0:18:37.996 --> 0:18:41.236 every household has like their own version right that they've 0:18:41.276 --> 0:18:43.676 been It's like a family recipe that's been passed down, 0:18:43.716 --> 0:18:47.196 and they're all so different, you know. I've had ones 0:18:47.236 --> 0:18:50.756 that have like mushrooms in it, that have beef in it, 0:18:50.876 --> 0:18:53.756 that have like fermented bean paste in it, all types 0:18:53.876 --> 0:18:58.636 of different flavors. There are literally thousands of different styles 0:18:58.676 --> 0:19:01.716 in China, right, but there was nothing like it in 0:19:01.716 --> 0:19:06.636 the US. There was one mass brand, Lagama, which is 0:19:06.876 --> 0:19:09.716 you know, a billion dollar company in China. You know, 0:19:09.876 --> 0:19:12.276 it was the only version that was at all available 0:19:12.396 --> 0:19:15.996 in the US, and I think most Americans hadn't heard 0:19:15.996 --> 0:19:21.316 of it. So I was like, there's definitely this gap 0:19:21.356 --> 0:19:23.916 to be filled. You know, it's a delicious condiment. It's 0:19:23.956 --> 0:19:27.236 good on pretty much everything. If billions of people in 0:19:27.316 --> 0:19:30.476 China can love a condiment like this, why can't Americans. 0:19:31.116 --> 0:19:34.676 So that summer, I actually went back to Shanghai and 0:19:35.436 --> 0:19:38.196 started looking into scaling production. 0:19:38.116 --> 0:19:39.636 And what does that look like when you go back 0:19:39.636 --> 0:19:42.236 to source ingredients for something like this. 0:19:42.396 --> 0:19:44.276 I already knew what ingredients I wanted to use, and 0:19:44.316 --> 0:19:46.396 these were ingredients that I had sourced for, you know, 0:19:46.556 --> 0:19:52.596 years leading up to that point. Exactly exactly what I 0:19:52.676 --> 0:19:55.356 needed was a factory to be able to make it 0:19:55.356 --> 0:19:58.916 for me, you know, because I was cooking large batches 0:19:58.916 --> 0:20:00.996 in my kitchen, but you know that would take me 0:20:01.036 --> 0:20:04.596 hours and hours, and you know I would hand bottle 0:20:05.316 --> 0:20:09.556 hundreds of jars, you know, so I didn't know anything 0:20:09.596 --> 0:20:13.316 about food production. I just went into a grocery store 0:20:13.476 --> 0:20:16.196 sort of looking at jars that were on the shelf. 0:20:16.356 --> 0:20:20.396 And in China, they it's mandated to like have factories 0:20:21.316 --> 0:20:24.676 details like address and phone numbers on the jars, and 0:20:24.716 --> 0:20:29.316 so I just started calling up factories and they would 0:20:29.396 --> 0:20:35.316 be like, yeah, who is this, Like I'm interested in 0:20:35.356 --> 0:20:38.276 making a hot sauce with you, you know, they would be like, Okay, 0:20:38.276 --> 0:20:41.916 what restaurant are you with or like what organization? And 0:20:42.756 --> 0:20:45.236 almost all of them didn't give me time of day 0:20:45.316 --> 0:20:51.396 because they have so much business from just domestically in China, 0:20:51.996 --> 0:20:55.836 they definitely had no time for someone like me. So 0:20:55.836 --> 0:20:58.356 it took a lot of calling. It took a lot 0:20:58.396 --> 0:21:01.916 of just like you know, asking for favors, asking for intros. 0:21:02.316 --> 0:21:04.796 Finally I found a factory that was willing to talk 0:21:04.796 --> 0:21:07.716 to me, started working with them on scaling the recipe, 0:21:07.756 --> 0:21:10.236 which is very different from like cooking at home versus 0:21:10.276 --> 0:21:11.596 you know, in a giant. 0:21:11.796 --> 0:21:13.516 Can you explain that, Like, how do you go from 0:21:13.516 --> 0:21:15.916 I have this recipe that works well for you know, 0:21:15.956 --> 0:21:18.796 creating at home versus the recipe that can actually scale 0:21:18.796 --> 0:21:20.996 and be produced at a larger volume. 0:21:21.636 --> 0:21:24.716 Yeah, I mean it's just a lot of experimentation, a 0:21:24.756 --> 0:21:28.796 lot of tweaking, even temperature, you know, temperature of oil, 0:21:28.876 --> 0:21:31.356 which is so important when you're making chili oil because 0:21:31.636 --> 0:21:35.636 the right temperature draws out the flavor versus temperature is 0:21:35.676 --> 0:21:38.916 too high, it's going to burn the chili's something too low, 0:21:38.956 --> 0:21:41.036 it's not going to draw out the flavor. Change the 0:21:41.036 --> 0:21:43.676 temperature by a tiny little bit, and it has drastic 0:21:43.956 --> 0:21:48.276 you know effects, and so something like that versus the 0:21:48.316 --> 0:21:52.556 weight of different ingredients. It really just is trial and error. 0:21:52.836 --> 0:21:55.636 So you start with a smaller batch, then you go 0:21:55.716 --> 0:21:59.116 into a small drum, then you go to a medium one, 0:21:59.196 --> 0:22:01.596 and then finally a big one, until you can get 0:22:01.716 --> 0:22:03.036 the consistency that you want. 0:22:03.916 --> 0:22:06.716 And through that there's the possibility that you could make 0:22:06.756 --> 0:22:08.956 an entire batch potentially. 0:22:08.596 --> 0:22:13.156 And that's how you have to waste everything. Yeah, gone 0:22:13.196 --> 0:22:15.956 up in smoke. It's definitely happened when I burnt all 0:22:15.996 --> 0:22:16.476 my chili. 0:22:17.036 --> 0:22:19.476 Lord. Yeah, and when you're working with the big order 0:22:20.556 --> 0:22:23.396 that's fairly costly, I imagine, Yeah. 0:22:23.236 --> 0:22:27.356 It can be for sure. How do I actually produce 0:22:27.556 --> 0:22:30.676 a giant batch? It costs like at least twenty to 0:22:30.716 --> 0:22:33.156 thirty thousand dollars and I definitely didn't have that to 0:22:33.196 --> 0:22:36.916 produce a batch the minimum order quantity. Yes, like they'll 0:22:36.956 --> 0:22:39.036 they'll help you figure out the recipe to the point 0:22:39.036 --> 0:22:41.116 where you know it can scale, but then you need 0:22:41.156 --> 0:22:43.916 to place your order and the minimum order quantity is 0:22:43.996 --> 0:22:44.556 quite high. 0:22:44.956 --> 0:22:48.116 Wow. So so when it gets to that point, what. 0:22:49.116 --> 0:22:49.556 Do I do? 0:22:52.356 --> 0:22:55.036 From using Kickstarter to raise over one hundred thousand dollars 0:22:55.076 --> 0:22:57.796 to start production of her Chili crisp to seeing her 0:22:57.876 --> 0:23:02.156