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Speaker 1: When the Pilgrim Fathers came to America in search of

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Speaker 1: religious and political freedom, they settled in the northeastern sector

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Speaker 1: of our country known as New England, a part of

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Speaker 1: New England after the English county of Hampshire came to

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Speaker 1: be known as New Hampshire. New Hampshire is a land

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Speaker 1: of history, a contentment, and charm. For those of you

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Speaker 1: who are looking for a thrill, here you have it.

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Speaker 1: In the Cannon Mountain Aerial Tramway. It's a fascinating, breath

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Speaker 1: taking ride, and as your car nears the summit, there

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Speaker 1: is an unforgettable view of the White Mountain National Part.

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Speaker 1: One of nature's most awe inspiring worked is this giant

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Speaker 1: profile of the Old Man of the Mountains, sculptured out

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Speaker 1: of the granite cliffs at Franconia Knock. In the previous

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Speaker 1: two episodes, we've looked at how what we know about

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Speaker 1: memory and regression. Hypnosis raised serious doubts about Betty and

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Speaker 1: Barney Hill's story of alien abduction, but these doubts don't

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Speaker 1: apply to the parts of the September trip that Betty

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Speaker 1: and Barney remembered before hypnosis. Dr Benjamin Simon, who conducted

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Speaker 1: the hypnosis sessions with the Hills said that while he

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Speaker 1: believed the memories from hypnosis were from Betty's dreams, something

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Speaker 1: had actually happened that night. The question is what I'm

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Speaker 1: Toby Ball and this is strange. Arrivals Episode seven, motion parallax.

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Speaker 1: The Hills planned to spend the night of September in Montreal.

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Speaker 1: They'd driven about two hours that morning from a motel

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Speaker 1: west of Montreal and became lost in the city before

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Speaker 1: deciding to drive eight hours through the night to their

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Speaker 1: home in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. UFO researcher Robert Shaefer one

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Speaker 1: thing that people don't often note is that they had

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Speaker 1: been driving for a very long time. I think they

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Speaker 1: had been on the road, like twelve hours or more,

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Speaker 1: and if you talk about distracted drivers, that concern certainly

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Speaker 1: applies here. Betty at first saw a light that seemed

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Speaker 1: to be following them, and she was convinced that it

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Speaker 1: was a UFO. Her excitedness gradually got Barney to be

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Speaker 1: excited as well. The first stop they made to get

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Speaker 1: a better look at this light was just north of

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Speaker 1: Franconian Notch State Park. From episode one, Kathleen Martin, as

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Speaker 1: she watched this, and it grew larger and larger. She

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Speaker 1: became very curious, so south of Twin Mountain, she asked

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Speaker 1: Barney to stop by the side of the road. This

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Speaker 1: was at the Mount Cleveland picnic area, and they got

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Speaker 1: out of the car with binoculars and looked up at

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Speaker 1: this thing in the sky. There's this period of time

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Speaker 1: when they are south of Lancaster, New Hampshire, until they

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Speaker 1: get close to Cannon Mountain, when the light is a

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Speaker 1: long way off but seems to be getting closer and

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Speaker 1: is moving around in the sky. There are two possible

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Speaker 1: explanations for this that I want to talk about. The

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Speaker 1: most common among skeptics is that at this point in

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Speaker 1: the journey, Eddie is seeing the planet Jupiter. But why

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Speaker 1: would she think it was moving and getting closer. Robert Schaeffer,

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Speaker 1: followed by skeptoid host Brian dunning Well, the road curves

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Speaker 1: and the mountains are there hiding and revealing the Moon

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Speaker 1: and Jupiter and anything else that they might be looking at.

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Speaker 1: Is very common in the in the history of the

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Speaker 1: UFO sightings and even at the present time. But people

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Speaker 1: say this object was following us. It was moving from

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Speaker 1: one side of the road to the other. But again,

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Speaker 1: you know, many roads, especially in mountainous areas, do not

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Speaker 1: go on a straight line. They curved back and forth.

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Speaker 1: It's very easy to get confused about, you know, what

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Speaker 1: direction you're looking at something that isn't really in question.

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Speaker 1: That's a very common thing, amount you know, UFO sightings.

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Speaker 1: I am persuaded that that is a very good explanation

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Speaker 1: for the white light that they saw in the sky.

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Speaker 1: I have had similar experiences myself. I've done a lot

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Speaker 1: of sailing, and when you see a light in the

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Speaker 1: distance and your on a boat and the boat's moving,

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Speaker 1: the illusion that it's the light that's moving and not

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Speaker 1: you can be extremely persuasive. I do think that that

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Speaker 1: is a sufficient explanation for the white light that they reported.

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Speaker 1: I've heard that people do get confused by planets at night,

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Speaker 1: but I still have a hard time believing that this

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Speaker 1: misidentification of Jupiter is the beginning of the Hill encounter.

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Speaker 1: Even fatigued driving dark, lonely roads at night, I just

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Speaker 1: can't picture it. I attended a meeting of the Granite

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Speaker 1: State Skeptics, a group in New Hampshire that gets together

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Speaker 1: once a month to discuss paranormal phenomena. I brought up

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Speaker 1: that I didn't quite buy the Jupiter explanation. One of

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Speaker 1: the people there, a retired Air Force officer named Steve Lundquist,

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Speaker 1: had a story. So this is really about being an

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Speaker 1: expert witness and people knowing or should know better, and

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Speaker 1: they can still make mistakes. So just talking about myself personally,

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Speaker 1: air Force pilot over three thousand hours and jets flying

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Speaker 1: all over the world, amateur astronomer, and you know, in

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Speaker 1: the Air Force you even get courses on you know,

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Speaker 1: aviation weather and all those sort of things. So with

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Speaker 1: that sort of a background, you know, you'd think I'd

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Speaker 1: know better. But one time we were in the Middle

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Speaker 1: East and we were flying along mission and it was

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Speaker 1: you know, the typical old dark thirty and we're flying

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Speaker 1: towards Saudi Arabia and we see an aircraft in front

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Speaker 1: of us, and you know, it's hard to tell exactly

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Speaker 1: what kind of aircraft it is. You know, if it's

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Speaker 1: by its brightness and it's really far away, it's probably

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Speaker 1: a big one. But if it's closer, it's probably a

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Speaker 1: small one. And we didn't think much of it until

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Speaker 1: we noticed that it was climbing and after a while

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Speaker 1: it climbed pretty high, and since we couldn't paint it

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Speaker 1: on ray are, we figured it was far away, so

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Speaker 1: it must have been a large aircraft and far away.

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Speaker 1: We're looking at the altitude that it's getting to and

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Speaker 1: we're figuring to ourselves, no US aircraft can reach these altitudes.

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Speaker 1: It just can't. Trigonometry actually came into the whole equation,

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Speaker 1: you know. We put its existent to see what the

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Speaker 1: angle was, and we're like, wow, this thing is like

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Speaker 1: up there like a hundred and twenty thousand feet. Nothing

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Speaker 1: can do that. And of course as we're flying along,

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Speaker 1: we're like, going, jee's a wax is awfully quiet tonight too? Yeah, one,

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Speaker 1: what's up? Why is that? What's going on? Now? If

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Speaker 1: I've gone back and reported to people we saw this airplane,

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Speaker 1: it was doing things no aircraft we know of can do,

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Speaker 1: you know, And then we said it was a UFO.

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Speaker 1: You'd probably believe me because you know, I'm an Air

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Speaker 1: Force pilot, I fly, I no astronomy, I'm an engineer,

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Speaker 1: I have top secret clearance all that stuff. You believe me, right.

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Speaker 1: We thought about it a little bit more and we

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Speaker 1: came to realize it actually was Venus. But because we've

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Speaker 1: been looking for traffic. You know, when you're flying, you're

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Speaker 1: always looking for what you might run into. Open the sky,

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Speaker 1: we fixated on it's an aircraft. This bright light in

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Speaker 1: the sky is another airplane. We don't want to hit it.

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Speaker 1: And even though it was starting to do things no

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Speaker 1: other aircraft can do, in our minds, still stayed as

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Speaker 1: an aircraft as opposed to Venus. Classic mistake of Venus

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Speaker 1: as an aircraft. And it's like I should have known better,

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Speaker 1: and I still made that mistake. There's another explanation that

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Speaker 1: I find still more convincing, brought to us by Jim McDonald.

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Speaker 1: I write science fiction novels. I'm a magician, I'm an E. M. T.

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Speaker 1: And I live here in the north country of Namshure.

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Speaker 1: Jim's explanation relies on some of the same principles as

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Speaker 1: the Jupiter explanation, but comes to a different conclusion about

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Speaker 1: the source of the light. One day on the September,

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Speaker 1: to make it exactly the right date, my wife and

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Speaker 1: my daughter and I all drove down Route three, following

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Speaker 1: Betty and Barney's route, with a copy of Interrupted Journey,

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Speaker 1: which my wife was reading aloud while I took time

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Speaker 1: kicks and mileage measurements and discovered some interesting things. Remember,

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Speaker 1: The Interrupted Journey is the book written by John Fuller

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Speaker 1: that first told the story of the Hill's journey and

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Speaker 1: their sessions with Dr Benjamin Simon. Just south of Lancaster,

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Speaker 1: when you cross up on the shoulder of Mount Prospect

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Speaker 1: Corrigan Hill, that's the first spot that Betty and Barney

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Speaker 1: saw their UFO. They're flying saucer. And when you cross

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Speaker 1: the crest of Mount Prospect, same exact spot, that's the

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Speaker 1: first place that you can see the warning light on

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Speaker 1: the top of Camon Mountain. Immediately after seeing the UFO,

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Speaker 1: it began to move rapidly straight up. It was like

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Speaker 1: a shooting star, only it fell up, I think is

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Speaker 1: the quote. Immediately after you cross the shoulder of Mountain Prospect,

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Speaker 1: US three goes down a nine grade for the next

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Speaker 1: half mile, pointed directly at Cannon Mountain, and that aircraft

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Speaker 1: warning light apparently moves straight up. Well, that flying saucer,

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Speaker 1: Betting and Barney's disappeared on one side of the road,

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Speaker 1: reappeared on the other. It was sometimes high, sometimes low,

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Speaker 1: just like that aircraft warning light. They're flying saucer got larger,

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Speaker 1: brighter and closer the farther south they went, and so

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Speaker 1: does the aircraft warning line gets larger, brighter and closer.

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Speaker 1: I said to myself, my golly, I think I'm seeing

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Speaker 1: their UFO right now. Actually I had already said that

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Speaker 1: because I've made the connection. I've made the connection years before,

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Speaker 1: but now I was testing out for sure. And we

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Speaker 1: get to the sighting that really clinches everything. Bet and

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Speaker 1: Barney are the foot of Cannon Mountain. They're looking up

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Speaker 1: the top of Cannon Mountain and they're seeing the lights

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Speaker 1: at the tramway station. There is a aerial tramway, the

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Speaker 1: first one in America started, goes up the side of

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Speaker 1: the mountain. At the upper tramway house, there is a

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Speaker 1: snack bar and there's lights you can see from the road.

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Speaker 1: Betty and Barney reported seeing those lights of the snack bar,

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Speaker 1: and they reported seeing the their UFO. They're flying saucer

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Speaker 1: at the same time. As you stand at the foot

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Speaker 1: of Cannon Mountain on the side of the Root three,

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Speaker 1: looking up at the top of the mountain, you see

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Speaker 1: the lights at the top of the tramway and you

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Speaker 1: see the aircraft warning light so Betty and Barney they're

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Speaker 1: looking at the aircraft warning light, their point at the

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Speaker 1: aircraft warning light, and they're saying, that's it. That's the

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Speaker 1: flying saucer. I mean case closed right there. Strange arrivals

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Speaker 1: will return in a moment. This illusion of the lights

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Speaker 1: on top of Cannon Mountain moving when in fact it

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Speaker 1: is the car that is moving, is made further convincing

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Speaker 1: by an effect called motion parallax Mark Ken from the

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Speaker 1: University of New Hampshire. Other things that night include seeing

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Speaker 1: the light which other people have said that is simply

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Speaker 1: a the beacon from a ski resort, and the fact

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Speaker 1: that it seemed to follow them is absolutely perfectly in

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Speaker 1: line with a depth cue called motion parallax, where you

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Speaker 1: see things closer they are, the faster they moved, the

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Speaker 1: further away they are, the slower they move. This was

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Speaker 1: at a distance away, so it appeared to kind of

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Speaker 1: follow their car, but it was at not the distance

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Speaker 1: away that the stars were, so it was moving differently

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Speaker 1: from the stars, so it could look really weird if

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Speaker 1: you don't know what you're looking at. Route three runs

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Speaker 1: about two and eighty miles from the Canadian border in

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Speaker 1: New Hampshire, south to Boston. The main events of the

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Speaker 1: hill siding took place over a distance of about a

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Speaker 1: dozen miles from the Mount Cleveland Scenic Area to somewhere

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Speaker 1: around the Indian Head Resort. This stretch takes you from

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Speaker 1: just north of Franconia Notch through the notch itself, with

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Speaker 1: mountains on either side, including Cannon Mountain and The Old

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Speaker 1: Man in the Mountain on the right, and Mount Lafayette

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Speaker 1: on the left. After about seven miles in the notch,

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Speaker 1: Route three exits into the lower hills, including the area

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Speaker 1: around Indian Head. On a November afternoon, I drove this

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Speaker 1: route that Betty and Barney took. It struck me that

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Speaker 1: so much has changed since. Once you enter Franconia Notch,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to feel like you are really recreate aiding

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Speaker 1: their journey with any sort of precision. The path Route

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Speaker 1: three takes follows the same course north of the notch

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Speaker 1: at the Mount Cleveland picnic area and south of the

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Speaker 1: Notch around Indian Head, but the section that goes through

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Speaker 1: the notch itself has been merged with the newer Root

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Speaker 1: ninety three and takes a slightly different course. The Old

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Speaker 1: Man in the Mountain has also changed. It was a

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Speaker 1: naturally formed rock outcropping that, when viewed at the right angle,

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Speaker 1: as it was by thousands and thousands of tourists every year,

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Speaker 1: looked like the craggy profile of an old man. It's

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Speaker 1: gone now collapsing on May third, two thousand and three,

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Speaker 1: but it was there in and the Hills reportedly used

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Speaker 1: that profile to estimate the size of the UFO. So

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Speaker 1: they entered Franconian Notch, driving south, with Cannon Mountain on

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Speaker 1: their right. Most skeptics agree that at this point, even

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Speaker 1: if she had previously been seeing Jupiter, Betty is looking

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Speaker 1: at the lights on the summit of Cannon Mountain. Barney

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Speaker 1: is driving. Once they are in the notch, they stop

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Speaker 1: at some point near the Old Man in the mountain.

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Speaker 1: They get out of the car to look at the UFO.

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Speaker 1: It is now close enough to be recognizable as a

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Speaker 1: craft of some sort, not just a light. They stopped

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Speaker 1: again at the base of the Old Man of the mountain.

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Speaker 1: They got out and they looked up at this thing

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Speaker 1: again through binoculars. As they're watching it, it appeared to

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Speaker 1: be lighted on only one side, and it appeared to

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Speaker 1: be rotating. It's here that the story becomes more incredible.

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Speaker 1: A planet or a summit light are no longer adequate explanations.

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Speaker 1: My name is Travis Roy. I run Grand State Skeptics.

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Speaker 1: I spent about a year researching the Betting and Barney

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Speaker 1: Hill abduction and going to the archives at U n

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Speaker 1: H to look through all the original documentation, and in

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Speaker 1: my day job, i am a I T guy. Travis

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00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,480
Speaker 1: realized that the moment at which the Hills UFO became

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Speaker 1: more than a light is the same time that they

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Speaker 1: were near the Cannon Mountain Tramway. The Old Man in

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Speaker 1: the Mountain Historic site is right where Cannon Mountain Aerial

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Speaker 1: Tramway is. Then you have Cannon Mountain to the southwest

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Speaker 1: of that, and then it's about six and a half

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Speaker 1: miles to get to Indian Head Resort. So if you're

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Speaker 1: talking three miles up from Indian Head, you can see

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Speaker 1: the top of Cannon Mountain. It's not until you get

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Speaker 1: within like a mile or two of Indian Head that

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Speaker 1: you can't see it. So if they saw something at

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Speaker 1: the Old Man of the Mountain site, and then on

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Speaker 1: the way towards Indian Head, they pulled over and looked

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00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,760
Speaker 1: through binoculars and saw something. It seems totally plausible to

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Speaker 1: me that they would have saw the Cannon Mountain Tramway

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Speaker 1: and then they the next thing they saw driving down

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00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,520
Speaker 1: the road would have been Indian Head Resort, which makes sense.

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Speaker 1: That's how I would explain it too, if it happened

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00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:24,080
Speaker 1: to me and the Hills description of the UFO seems

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Speaker 1: similar to the appearance of the tram car that was

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Speaker 1: used in the early nineteen sixties. If you look at

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Speaker 1: the picture of the craft, it looks kind of like

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Speaker 1: the old tramway, not the current one, but the one

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Speaker 1: that existed at the time. It's much more boxy than

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Speaker 1: your typical UFO that you think of as a flying saucer,

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Speaker 1: and it had things protruding from the sides. But I

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00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,560
Speaker 1: mean that could be the way the lights are, or

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Speaker 1: it could have been reflections on something. It could have

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00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,320
Speaker 1: been anything, but the actual craft piece of it, where

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00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,200
Speaker 1: it has the body of the craft and the windows

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Speaker 1: and the figures inside, looks very similar to what the

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Speaker 1: Cannon Tramway looked like at the time. The Cannon Mountain

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00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:17,160
Speaker 1: Tramway was built in It was the first aerial passenger

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Speaker 1: tramway in North America. The base station for the tramway

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00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,520
Speaker 1: is just a few hundred yards from the Old Man

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Speaker 1: in the Mountain parking lot. There's now a gift store

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00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:34,720
Speaker 1: where the viewing area once was. One skeptical theory is

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00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,359
Speaker 1: that Betty and Barney expected to see a UFO, saw

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Speaker 1: the tram car and were confused. On the face of it,

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Speaker 1: it's not such a far fetched idea. One of the

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Speaker 1: hard things about trying to recreate what happened during that

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Speaker 1: brief time is that it is not clear where they

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00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:57,439
Speaker 1: stopped after the Mount Cleveland Scenic Area. They could have

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00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,840
Speaker 1: pulled over at any point around the Old Man in

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00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:04,000
Speaker 1: the mountain. If they were north of the tramway, It's

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00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,159
Speaker 1: entirely possible that the tram car passed in front of

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00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,760
Speaker 1: their view of the Old Man. There aren't many visual

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00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 1: cues there to determine distance. In the darkness, especially when

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00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:19,320
Speaker 1: looking through binoculars, the tram car would have seemed bigger

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00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 1: compared to the Old Man because it would have been

293
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 1: much closer to where Betty and Barney had stopped. The

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00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,439
Speaker 1: problem is that there's no evidence that the tram was

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00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,879
Speaker 1: running at that late hour. It was well after the

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00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 1: last scheduled tourist run. The restaurant at the top of

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00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,920
Speaker 1: Cannon Mountain was closing around that time, so maybe it

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00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,119
Speaker 1: was being used to bring down staff or something like that,

299
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 1: but there's no record of it from the old man

300
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 1: in the mountain. They continued south for a few miles,

301
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 1: briefly stopping at times, and eventually encountering the craft in

302
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 1: the field near Indian Head. This is where Barney saw

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00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,440
Speaker 1: the figures in the craft looking back at him. He

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00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 1: took his binoculars, helped him up to his eyes and

305
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 1: looked up at this object. He could see a lighted

306
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,160
Speaker 1: row of windows that seemed to be around the front

307
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:23,040
Speaker 1: part of this craft. Gazing back at him were between

308
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:28,400
Speaker 1: eight and eleven figures inside the craft. The skeptical explanation

309
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,960
Speaker 1: begins with Betty and Barney's fatigue and stress. They've been

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Speaker 1: on the road for hours. Betty in particular, thinks they

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00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:41,640
Speaker 1: are being followed by a UFO. Her nervousness is affecting

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00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:47,400
Speaker 1: Barney because they are not thinking clearly, they misconstrue whatever

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00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 1: they see near Indian Head. With this in mind, Travis

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00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 1: Roy speculates about what they might have seen. I've done

315
00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 1: that drive and you can't see Cannon Mountain from the

316
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 1: Indian Head Resort. You can see it from a small

317
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 1: drive north. The distance isn't that much, And that goes

318
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 1: back to what I said about how it's really hard

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00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,640
Speaker 1: to tell exactly where you are. The other thing, too,

320
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 1: is is that and they're retelling of it. They pulled

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00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 1: over at one point at Indian Head and Barney went

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00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 1: across the street and looked at the craft through binoculars. Now,

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00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,439
Speaker 1: if they were doing that, I mean Indian Head Resort

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00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 1: was there during that time, there would have been other

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00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 1: people around there. I mean, even in the middle of

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00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,880
Speaker 1: the night, there's still like the hotel staff and stuff,

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00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 1: and there would have been lights on and everything else.

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Speaker 1: So I really don't think that that's where they stopped

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Speaker 1: to look at the craft, because if they saw that,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't you have gone into the hotel for help or like,

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00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 1: I'm seeing this crazy thing. I think that it happened

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Speaker 1: north of Indian Head before they got there, and they

333
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,679
Speaker 1: just say at it's Indian Head because that was the

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00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: next landmark that they hit. There is a problem with

335
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:12,360
Speaker 1: this explanation. Betty actually describes passing the Indian Head Resort

336
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,679
Speaker 1: before they have the encounter in the field because they

337
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 1: are traveling from north to south. If you are sure

338
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: that Betty is right about the sequence of events, this

339
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: doesn't fit Travis's timeline. Jim McDonald has an alternate explanation

340
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 1: for this part of the story, which is consistent with

341
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 1: Betty's sequence of events. He believes that the encounter in

342
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,439
Speaker 1: the field happened in Woodstock, about eight miles south of

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Speaker 1: the Indian Head Resort. They continue on south and here

344
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: comes the really horrible part of this. They get down

345
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: to Woodstock where you find the jack O lanterns, which

346
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: back in the early sixties had a large inflatable, glowing

347
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: red or orange spherical jack lantern up on the roof

348
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 1: of the motel, and this got inflated in their minds

349
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 1: with the glowing red orange moon with the white aircraft

350
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: warning light on the top of Cannon Mountain, and it

351
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,479
Speaker 1: is my belief that this is the point where they

352
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 1: leaped out of their cars were running around the field,

353
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 1: and that later under hypnotic regression, became the abduction site.

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00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 1: Later on, months later, when they were trying to find

355
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: the place where they were abducted, they didn't find it,

356
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: and they decided it must have been near Indian Heads somewhere,

357
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 1: because it had to have been south of Franconian Notch.

358
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Speaker 1: But it's notoriously difficult to find again during daylight someplace

359
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: that you've only seen at night and memory is weird.

360
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: Could this be the place? Yes, this was the place.

361
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: It is the place, and it became fixed. Robert Shaffer

362
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 1: doesn't even point to any particular physical object for him,

363
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 1: their exhaustion and excitement are explanation enough. Once they finally

364
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 1: reached the state where they were both very excited and

365
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: frightened when they got to this area called the Indian Head,

366
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: which is like a profile on them, a mountain like

367
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: the Old Man of the Mountain used to be. I'm

368
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: not sure what they were seeing at certain times there,

369
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: but yeah, they neither one of them was any longer

370
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: in a rational state of mind at that point. Fatigue

371
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,360
Speaker 1: and fear do a lot of heavy lifting in these explanations.

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00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: Without these two factors, they aren't very convincing. If you

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00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 1: are predisposed to think that the Hills were abducted, you

374
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 1: probably don't buy them. But it's important to keep in

375
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: mind that even if you don't accept any of these explanations.

376
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: The default is not an alien spaceship. In fact, the

377
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: burden of proof is with the proponents of the Hills story.

378
00:24:54,760 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: Carl Sagan said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. What we

379
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 1: have is a great story, but little in the way

380
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,959
Speaker 1: of convincing proof that had happened. This applies to the

381
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: physical evidence that Betty and Barney had at the end

382
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: of their trip. Remember how Kathleen Martin described Betty's torn

383
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: dress and Barney's scuff shoes. According to the abduction story,

384
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: these happened when the Hills were being brought through the

385
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: woods to the spacecraft. Is there another explanation? So what

386
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 1: else do we have. We've got Betty's dress, which was torn.

387
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: I have no idea how she tore her dress. There's

388
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: lots of ways to tear a dress, particularly leaping in

389
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: and out of a car in Fields and New Hampshire

390
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. The dress developed a

391
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: white powder on it some years later, which exactly resembles mold,

392
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: and barney shoes were scuffed, easy enough to do with

393
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: a stick shift car, gas pedal, brake, pedal and clutch,

394
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: and while leaping in and out of a car in

395
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: open Fields, New Hampshire, in the middle of the night.

396
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: Jim McDonald did not mention the broken binocular strap, but

397
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:15,479
Speaker 1: presumably the same explanation would apply. The strap gets snagged

398
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 1: on the door, perhaps as Barney jumps out of the car,

399
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,239
Speaker 1: which leaves the most compelling and most frustrating piece of

400
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: physical evidence, the shiny spots on the trunk of their car.

401
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 1: Remember Betty took a compass out to the car and

402
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 1: when she placed it on the round shiny spots, the

403
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: needle spun. There does not appear to have been any

404
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: further investigation. This is Betty and Barney on the David

405
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: Schumberg Show. We discussed the spots with Ball to Live

406
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: and with Mr Harman and Mr Jackson, But we have

407
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: spent ours discussing this, and then it was just over

408
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: on the at leaving when I left us. We just

409
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: took out to show them to exam into Mr Webb,

410
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 1: maybe John who was Yes, I did, and Walder Webb

411
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 1: simply throws up his hand and discussed his own failure

412
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: as an investigator. I am convinced in my own own

413
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: line and nothing was hidden and it was simply a

414
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: very serious oversight. And he agrees that it was Ed

415
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: Dalson of World Journal Tribune O those spots still there,

416
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: and if not were what happened to them? The spots

417
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 1: gradually wore away over the winter months, and we don't

418
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 1: have the can they have. Dr Benjamin Simon, who conducted

419
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 1: the hypnosis sessions with the Hell's was confounded by this

420
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: failure to examine the spots. Can't be one of the

421
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: greatest mistakes I have ever seen. That is that the

422
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: vir was assignedists and there was the story of the

423
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: silver spots outside of Silvergonald in the back of their car,

424
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: which they said at the time, Uh, we're still on

425
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: the car, and God don't what reasons he never went

426
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: out to look at It was an opportoint you to

427
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: see one single objective thing, you know, we've never had

428
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: a single objective thing. In the end, what might have

429
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: been the most intriguing piece of evidence to emerge from

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Speaker 1: this whole encounter was left unexamined. It seems incredible that

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Speaker 1: this trunk, which could have been the critical proof of

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Speaker 1: an alien encounter, was ignored and left to the elements.

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Speaker 1: But that's what happened. So what we are left with

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Speaker 1: our questions about time to begin with both Betty's and

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Speaker 1: Barney's watches stopped working that night and never worked again.

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Speaker 1: More importantly, none of what we've heard accounts for their

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Speaker 1: arriving home two hours later than they had expected. What

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Speaker 1: about the missing time next time on Strange Arrivals. Strange

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Speaker 1: Arrivals is a production of I Heart Radio and Grim

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Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Mankey. This episode was written and

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Speaker 1: hosted by Toby Bowl and produced by Miranda Hawkins and

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Speaker 1: Josh Thane, with executive producers Alex Williams, Matt Frederick and

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Speaker 1: Aaron Manky. Betty Hill was portrayed by Gina Rickike. Barney

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Speaker 1: Hill was portrayed by Jason Williams. Special thanks to the

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Speaker 1: Miln Special Collections and Archives at the University of New Hampshire,

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00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: John Horrigan, w y Am in Norwich, Connecticut, John White,

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Speaker 1: and David O'Leary, the executive producer of The History Channel's

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Speaker 1: dramatic series Project Bluebook. Learn more about the show over

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Speaker 1: at Grimm and Mile dot com. For more podcasts from

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio Physic, the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,