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Speaker 1: So there's something I thought of recently. I don't know

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Speaker 1: where I was talking about this to someone. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it was in therapy or there was somewhere

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Speaker 1: that I was talking about this. But there's a dynamic

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Speaker 1: that isn't discussed that much that goes on in divorce.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: We had a podcast called Divorce. It exploded. It was

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Speaker 1: millions of Yews crazy. It just was a little bit

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Speaker 1: flying too close to the sun for me having gone

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Speaker 1: through an excruciating time and then talking about it, and

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Speaker 1: then my mother passed away and I was going through

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Speaker 1: a breakup. It was just like a lot to.

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Speaker 2: Unload.

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Speaker 1: But there are concepts of divorce that I think should

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Speaker 1: be discussed because it was such a topic that people

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Speaker 1: were devouring. And one topic is if there's a contentious

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Speaker 1: divorce or break up, and let's say one person jilted

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Speaker 1: the other, or the other person hasn't gotten over one person,

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Speaker 1: or they've been hurt either during their relationship or during

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Speaker 1: the divorce, and there's a child involved the parent.

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Speaker 2: This happened with me.

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Speaker 1: Oh I was doing an interview the other day for

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Speaker 1: this podcast, and someone asked me about my relationship with

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Speaker 1: my real father and there was a resentment towards me

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Speaker 1: that was completely unwarranted and irrational because it started at

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Speaker 1: a time when I was like five years old, I

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Speaker 1: was living with my real father. Because the story goes,

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Speaker 1: and I always say the story goes because people tell

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Speaker 1: their kids things. And I said to this guy that

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Speaker 1: I grew up in a house of liars, So don't

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Speaker 1: I never know what exactly is true and what's not true,

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Speaker 1: but what the story went that my mother, And not

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Speaker 1: until you're an age where you're going through real life

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Speaker 1: things like divorce, et cetera, do you start to understand

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Speaker 1: the messages that were being sent to you as a kid.

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Speaker 1: So the story went that, and it tracks that my

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Speaker 1: mother and father broke up and that she wanted to

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Speaker 1: be in New York. He moved to California. I was

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Speaker 1: with him in California because he said he wouldn't support

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Speaker 1: me or pay for me unless I was living with him. Now,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what money she did or didn't have

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Speaker 1: to pay for divorce lawyers. I don't know what the

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Speaker 1: system was like back then. It certainly wasn't like it

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Speaker 1: is now. And I do know that for years, I

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Speaker 1: don't think he really paid child support.

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Speaker 2: I do know that.

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Speaker 1: So I was living with him and I missed her.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to be there with him. It was

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Speaker 1: a very wild sort of drugs and the seventies and

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Speaker 1: young women and just like a racetrack lifestyle. And her

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Speaker 1: lifestyle was horrendous too, But I wanted. A kid wants

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Speaker 1: to be with their mother often for whatever reason. I

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Speaker 1: I missed her and wanted to be with her, and

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Speaker 1: I did go back to her, I think at like five.

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Speaker 1: So I then didn't really have anything to do with him,

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Speaker 1: and saw him once when I was thirteen, and he

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Speaker 1: the resentment of me had already started, like he's sort

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Speaker 1: of I remember him saying he was throwing his hands

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Speaker 1: up with the situation.

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Speaker 2: There was a time.

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Speaker 1: Where he reached out when I was thirteen, wanted to

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Speaker 1: see each other, and then I was supposed to go

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Speaker 1: visit him.

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Speaker 2: Actually no, this was seven. When I was seven, I

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Speaker 2: was supposed to go visit him.

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Speaker 1: And because he was so successful and he didn't, I

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Speaker 1: had I had a high fever. My mother wouldn't let

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Speaker 1: me get on the plane because he didn't get me

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Speaker 1: a first class ticket. It was almost like she was

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Speaker 1: looking for an excuse so she wouldn't let me get

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Speaker 1: on the plane. And he then later said he was

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Speaker 1: washing his hands with the whole situation, which I remember,

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Speaker 1: and it meant to me with me and for years,

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Speaker 1: even when I reconnected with him later in college, when

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Speaker 1: he tried to sort of pursue me once I needed

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Speaker 1: him or wanted for him to be my father, try

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Speaker 1: to like in stuff like she a pet father at

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Speaker 1: water and like I'm gonna have a father At eighteen

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Speaker 1: or twenty or whatever old I was, he was kind

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Speaker 1: of resentful of me, and I used to try to

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Speaker 1: get something from him, and like he would withhold emotions

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Speaker 1: and like be sort of manipulative with me until till

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Speaker 1: he died. He was just he just he didn't care

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Speaker 1: for me, and he would he just was mean to me,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, And it really always felt like I

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Speaker 1: was my mother to him, even though I'm not like

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Speaker 1: my mother in many ways, but I think I was

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Speaker 1: my mother to him, and I think many in many divorces,

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Speaker 1: and it's not discussed enough, a parent resents the child

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Speaker 1: because they remind them of the ex Let's say that,

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Speaker 1: like you get divorced from a woman and she and

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Speaker 1: the daughter are very very close, and.

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Speaker 2: You know, you.

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Speaker 1: Can't stand the mother. If the mother and the daughter

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Speaker 1: do a lot of things together and the daughter really

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Speaker 1: looks up to and loves the mother, and let's say,

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Speaker 1: you in subtle ways, you know, try to allude to

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Speaker 1: the mother not being great or said bad things to

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Speaker 1: the kid about the mother, but it didn't work. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's like some resentment that lies there. And I just

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Speaker 1: think it's a dynamic that needs to be watched. And

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Speaker 1: I also think it's a dynamic that's extremely toxic and

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Speaker 1: that should be mitigated or eliminated at all costs. And

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Speaker 1: I just think the kids are put in the middle

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Speaker 1: in ways that aren't always discussed. So I think there's

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Speaker 1: just a dynamic where parents resent the child or a son,

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Speaker 1: like a mother with the son if the son is

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Speaker 1: really into sports and wants to do everything the father

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Speaker 1: wants to do, and the mother feels left out and

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Speaker 1: she can't stand the father and she starts to see

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Speaker 1: that her son is reminding her or acting more like

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Speaker 1: the father. That's going to be challenging. So and it

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that someone can't remind you of someone that

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Speaker 1: you hate and still be a good person. It just

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Speaker 1: means that it probably would be triggering. You know you

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Speaker 1: just even if someone looks like someone that would be hard.

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Speaker 1: What if you can't stand someone they cheated on you,

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Speaker 1: whatever they did, they fucked you over, and then your

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Speaker 1: kid looks exactly like them. I just don't hear anyone

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Speaker 1: talk about that enough, so I thought of it during

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Speaker 1: this interview. So, if you're dating and you're going through

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Speaker 1: a breakup, okay, if you're going through any sort of breakup.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people are asking me about breakups. It's

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Speaker 2: a new year.

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Speaker 1: People stayed with people through the holidays, which is a

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Speaker 1: big thing. You don't want to deal with it around Thanksgiving,

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Speaker 1: but then oh it's Christmas. Then you don't want to

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Speaker 1: be alone on New Year's Eve. Now it's fucking New Year.

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Speaker 1: The world's been coming to an end. January is forty

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Speaker 1: two months long. It's insane. It's like January ninety ninth.

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Speaker 1: And now people are like, wait, I am still in

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Speaker 1: the same relationship and I'm going through a breakup.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: People talk all the time about dating. I talk about it.

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Speaker 1: We don't talk about breaking up and juice fast. For example,

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Speaker 1: getting into a juice fast, you should ease into a

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Speaker 1: gew fast. Then you go hard and when you come

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Speaker 1: off of it, you're not supposed to just drink a

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Speaker 1: martini and have a cheeseburger, otherwise you end up in

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Speaker 1: the hospital. So you have to have a mode, a

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Speaker 1: modus operandi for breaking up. One thing is if you

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Speaker 1: ultimately really know that you're not going to be with

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Speaker 1: this person, which is impossible because you could intellectually know

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Speaker 1: you're not going to be with someone but emotionally miss

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Speaker 1: them and want the fix. So what you ultimately really

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Speaker 1: have to do is detox from them. And there are

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Speaker 1: many different ways. Some people get off the drug going

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Speaker 1: cold turkey, some people need to take a little hit

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Speaker 1: or do the methadone clinic. Okay, so you have to

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Speaker 1: be honest with yourself. But in neither of those situations

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Speaker 1: is it ever good to go back and binge on

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Speaker 1: the drug and take the drug. So we can go

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Speaker 1: through a whole thing about this, because we're always talking

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Speaker 1: about dating. But what I would say is there's a

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Speaker 1: discipline to it, just in the way that there's a

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Speaker 1: discipline to being healthy. So if a relationship wasn't working

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Speaker 1: for you, whether somebody breaks up with you or you

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Speaker 1: break up with them, and you can break up with

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Speaker 1: someone and also have a goal in mind. You can

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Speaker 1: break up with someone you can know they're not right

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Speaker 1: with you for you, but you need to get off

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Speaker 1: the sauce somehow, and you're not ready to fully go

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Speaker 1: cold turkey, so you can somehow maintain some connection. Let's

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Speaker 1: say they reach out to You can smile, you can

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Speaker 1: put a thumbs up, you can put a heart on it.

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Speaker 1: You're kind of like taking the smallest hit. It's like

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Speaker 1: micro dosing the person. But you're not giving them anything.

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Speaker 1: You're not moving it forward. You're not telling them you

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Speaker 1: love them, you're not calling them, you're not telling them

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Speaker 1: you miss them.

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Speaker 2: You're just sort of in their ether.

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Speaker 1: And that gives you time to get off the sauce

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Speaker 1: and get like most of it out of your system.

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Speaker 1: So then a, either you can get to the point

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Speaker 1: where they're fully out of your system. B. Because they're

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Speaker 1: fully out of your system, they're freaking out that you're

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Speaker 1: not missing them and that you're able to do this

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Speaker 1: because invariably they probably think you can't handle it without them,

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Speaker 1: and they're running the same game that you are. They

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Speaker 1: may be out having sex to medicate, they could be

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Speaker 1: partying to medicate. They could be crying, they could be

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Speaker 1: doing the same thing. They could be playing a game.

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Speaker 1: You don't fucking know. But you have to detox, and

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Speaker 1: you can have two things going on at the same

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Speaker 1: time where by way of you detoxing from the person,

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Speaker 1: they are also freaking out because they can't believe you

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Speaker 1: don't need the drug.

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Speaker 2: And if you go.

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Speaker 1: Take a hit off the pipe, they then know you

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Speaker 1: need the drug. They've got you hooked, they know you're

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Speaker 1: going to come back for more. They've got a little

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Speaker 1: dime bag waiting for you. So just know that that

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Speaker 1: you could be a strategist by also going you know,

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Speaker 1: not not breaking the diet, not going on the sauce,

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Speaker 1: but also you're being an emotional strategist where you're helping

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Speaker 1: yourself because you're getting off of it. Other people would

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Speaker 1: just believe in in cold turkey, some people would believe

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Speaker 1: go if the other person, If you love someone, you

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Speaker 1: set them free, if if it was meant to be,

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Speaker 1: they'll come back to you and like it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to overthink everything and you don't have

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Speaker 1: to be like, wait, well I didn't call them, so

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Speaker 1: maybe they don't know I love them, or they don't

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Speaker 1: know I miss them. You know, if someone wants to

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Speaker 1: be with you, they're going to fucking show you. If

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Speaker 1: someone shows you who they are or what they want

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Speaker 1: or what they don't want or how they feel, bah

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Speaker 1: leave them.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: The other thing is when you're in this phase, they

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Speaker 1: don't get to like have you for like pen pal

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Speaker 1: talks like, they don't get to be like, oh hey

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Speaker 1: did you go? Oh thought of you and send a

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Speaker 1: picture then you send something back, because that's a hit.

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Speaker 1: That's taking a small hit. You can get by. They

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Speaker 1: can get by too. They will never need to know

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Speaker 1: or feel what it's like to be without you. And

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Speaker 1: so that's again something that helps you emotionally, but it's

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Speaker 1: also a strategy, meaning what you're gonna it's the cow

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Speaker 1: and the milk, Like you're gonna give them the banter,

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Speaker 1: which equals what a lot of a relationship is. A

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Speaker 1: lot of times people miss each other because of the companionship,

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Speaker 1: because of the best friendship. It's the cigarette you took

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Speaker 1: a hit off of all day. It's like a tick.

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Speaker 1: You just talk to this person, you called them, you

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Speaker 1: sent them pictures. They would just like you picked up

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Speaker 1: the phone to call them, You send them emojis, you

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Speaker 1: send them videos, you inside jokes like, that's a lot,

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Speaker 1: day and day out. It's not like you're just missing

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Speaker 1: like the sex. Maybe on a Saturday night when you're wasted,

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Speaker 1: you're missing the sex because you're horny or something, or

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Speaker 1: you're lonely and you're hitting Sunday scaries. That happens, but

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Speaker 1: day and day out, it's kind of the habit. So

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Speaker 1: if you give them a hit off the pipe, they're

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Speaker 1: getting the cat. You know why, by the cow they

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Speaker 1: have to feel like, and why would you give them

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Speaker 1: just some of you. It's a rose. It has petals

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Speaker 1: and thorns. They're gonna have to take the thorns with

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Speaker 1: the petals because giving them the little hits all day

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Speaker 1: long and the cuteness about you and you're being a friend,

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Speaker 1: that's the petals without the thorns. They're taking an a

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Speaker 1: la carte menu. They're walking in and going I want

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Speaker 1: this and that, but I don't want the rest, and

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Speaker 1: you're just sitting there giving it to them. It's almost

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Speaker 1: like an emotional booty call. It really actually is like

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Speaker 1: an emotional booty call. They text you and want you

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Speaker 1: just to say something back is the equivalent of like,

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Speaker 1: hey want to hook up later. I want to meet

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Speaker 1: up later. You get weak, you just want the hit,

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Speaker 1: you want to see them, you want to get laid.

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Speaker 1: You'll go, You'll feel lower the next day. So the

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Speaker 1: same thing happens emotionally. You want to take a little hit.

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Speaker 1: It makes you feel worse after. It makes you feel

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Speaker 1: worse after you have a scratch you on it, itch

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Speaker 1: you fucking ride it through like a sugar craving, like

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Speaker 1: a like like someone who needs to go to a meeting.

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Speaker 1: You talk to a therapist, you talk to a friend,

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Speaker 1: you take a nap, you watch a movie, you organize

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Speaker 1: your closet, you go do something, you cook something, you

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Speaker 1: hug your kid, you watch, you do whatever the fuck

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Speaker 1: it it is you need to do instead of sitting there.

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Speaker 1: You know, and sometimes sitting there is okay. Like let's

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Speaker 1: say you're laying down and you're going to bed, or

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Speaker 1: you're meditating to avoid thinking about something means you're not

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Speaker 1: massaging it and working it through. If you have a calm,

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Speaker 1: clear mind, you can work through and really logically be

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Speaker 1: like is this what I ultimately want? Or am I

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Speaker 1: wanting this because it's like a gamification of the system,

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Speaker 1: because it's just like I miss something. Is this how

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Speaker 1: I want to live? Is what it was? How I

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Speaker 1: want to feel when we were together, when we were apart,

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Speaker 1: Like what is it all entail? What was I in?

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Speaker 1: And do I want to do that again? And do

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Speaker 1: I want to do that again for the right reasons?

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Speaker 1: And if I take a hit and I go back

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Speaker 1: in now, I'm gonna have to go through detox all

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Speaker 1: over again. So you better make sure that the other

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Speaker 1: person is giving you exactly what you want to go

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Speaker 1: back otherwise it's the definition of insanity. Why would you

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Speaker 1: go back to the same thing that you felt bad

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Speaker 1: in because you're scared, because you're scared of being alone.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely not. You got through the bad peer. You got

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Speaker 1: to go all the way through because otherwise you go

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Speaker 1: right back, right back, and you'll have the shakes and

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Speaker 1: the sweats, and you got to go through detoks all

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Speaker 1: over again. Because while people will evolve, some people don't change.

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Speaker 1: And the only people that change are people that drastically

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Speaker 1: want to change that come and say like I am

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Speaker 1: scared straight, I fucked up. I love you. I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine life without you. How can I change? What can

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Speaker 1: we do If someone isn't there, they're not worth your time,

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Speaker 1: because then you're gonna be dragging them. You're gonna be

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Speaker 1: pulling them. It's like pulling a sled. So I just

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Speaker 1: think that I talked about my divorce a lot. I've

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Speaker 1: talked about dating a lot. We can talk about breaking up.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be so drastic into just getting

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Speaker 1: together and falling in love or getting a vicious, brutal divorce.

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Speaker 1: We can talk in the middle about what it's like

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Speaker 1: to just go through a breakup, and it's really really

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Speaker 1: fucking hard, and fear gets in the way of truth.

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Speaker 1: Fear is literally like when people our shit, I'll be alone.

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Speaker 1: I'm no one's ever gonna treat me that way. I'm

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Speaker 1: never gonna find somebody again, et cetera. So that's what

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Speaker 1: I have to say about that. So we're adding breakups

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Speaker 1: into the talk about makeups and dating.