1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey are you welcome to Stuff to Blow 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: your Mind? My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, 4 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: and we're back with part two of our talk about 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: sky bridges or sky ways. Uh, if you haven't heard 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: part one yet, maybe should go check that one out first. 7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: But as a brief refresher, a sky bridge or a 8 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: skyway is an architectural feature that you can think of 9 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: as kind of a hallway in the sky, or an 10 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: enclosed bridge linking two buildings by the upper floors. In 11 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: the last episode, we talked about some modern examples of 12 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: sky bridges and some interesting ones from history, such as 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: the the Bridge of Size in Venice, Italy's enclosed passageway 14 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: that may look romantic from the outside but has mostly 15 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: historical associations with torture and zens. But in the uh, 16 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: let's see. But in today's episode, I think we're gonna 17 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: be talking more about what sky bridges mean, how they're interpreted, 18 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,199 Speaker 1: and how they might be used in the future. That's right, So, 19 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: first of all, I do want to refer back to 20 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: some examples just briefly that we we were we discussed 21 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: the you know, just the idea of say, the powerful 22 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: Medici family in Italy using these enclosed spaces and occasional 23 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: things that we would definitely categorize as a sky bridge 24 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: to move from one place to the other without interacting 25 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: with enemies or commoners, etcetera. We also looked at some 26 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: examples of of royalty in China engaging in similar practices, 27 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: using these as sort of privileged passage ways for royal 28 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: members of society. Oh so you what was the the 29 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: Chinese ruler who went about in these halls so that 30 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: devils would not see where he walked and he could 31 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: only embrace good people. It's said, yes, yes, that would 32 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: have been impertin shi Wong. Yeah, so that he could 33 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: uh quote act mysteriously to avoid devils and meanwhile embrace 34 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: virtuous individuals. And one thing that we mentioned was that, yeah, okay, 35 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: this is this is one thing within a historical context, 36 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: but generally speaking, I think a lot of us wouldn't 37 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: want to overtly um invoke that kind of idea. So 38 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: in there we get to some of the sort of 39 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: controversy and back and forth over just the nature of 40 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: the sky bridge, like not not only what it physically does, 41 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: but also like what is it? What does it do? 42 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: Um in terms of society and urban planning and uh 43 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: and just the like the larger nature of the city 44 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: that goes beyond just mere structures and moving people around. 45 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: And so I want to come back to the architect 46 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: John Portman Jr. John Portman Jr. Live through seventeen UM 47 00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: American neo futurist architect and real estate developer. Uh we 48 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: allude we mentioned some of the examples of his work 49 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: here in Atlanta, Georgia. He's known for popularizing the atrium, 50 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: but also in using a lot of sky bridges. Now, 51 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: as we mentioned, of course that there are a number 52 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: of practical reasons to have sky bridges in a structure, 53 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: moving people around so they don't have to uh engage 54 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: in say hostile environment and you know, hot temperatures, freezing rain, 55 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Also, you're gonna have situations where 56 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: you want to share resources within two different towers, so 57 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: connect those towers at a higher floor. That way people 58 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: don't have to go all the way back down and 59 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: then back up again, perhaps crossing a street or uh 60 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: you know, checking in and out of security along the way. 61 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: That sort of thing. But in the case of Portman's 62 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: Peachtree Center sky bridges, there's apparently been controversy over the 63 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: years over the use of such walkways. So this area 64 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: emerged during the nineties seventies, and while some of of 65 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: it is is dated, some of it is still quite impressed. 66 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: If I have to say, the Marta train station at 67 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: Peachtree Center is probably the coolest looking one in the 68 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: system and has these these rock walls as well as 69 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: this kind of still I would say futuristic looking, like 70 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: shiny metal surfaces. I don't know if he designed, uh, 71 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: the Marta station in question, but there was one Marta 72 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: station at least that was used as a setting for 73 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: a cut scene in John Carpenter's Escape from New York. 74 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: I think because it, you know, the sort of the 75 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: blocky concrete fixtures in it just looked futuristic enough. Yeah, yeah, 76 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: certainly at the time that was was that five Points station. 77 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: I can't recall off hand, but but certainly you're right 78 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: on that sounds likely. Yeah, yeah, that that also is 79 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: a huge enclosed space that it is impressive in its 80 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: own way to walk through. But at anyway, Yeah, this 81 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: is all part of the you know, the varying stages 82 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: of revitalization efforts in downtown Atlanta, and during this time 83 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: and especially the decades to follow, Peachtree Center was, in 84 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: the eyes of its critics, this thing that by its 85 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 1: very structure sought to cut out street level Atlanta in 86 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: its entirety um and now not only people but businesses. 87 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: So rather than optimistically futuristic, the critics would say, well, 88 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: this is actually more wellsy in a world of privilege above, 89 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: cut off from the realities of the street below. For 90 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 1: there was one account that I was looking at looking 91 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: through various old news stories, and I saw one about 92 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: a believe it was a janitor strike that was taking place, 93 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: and this particular author had mentioned people avoiding the protesters 94 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: by making use of the sky bridges, which seems like 95 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: a stark example of the sort of u uh, you know, 96 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: the sort of privileged walkway that in ways I think 97 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: can be compared to some of these older models that 98 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: we were discussing now, the nineteen seventies we're also not 99 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: a period during which green downtowns were prioritized, just certainly 100 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: not in Atlanta. Uh So, of one can can factor 101 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: that into the kind of weirdly spaceship like architectural approach. 102 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: That one season, some of these buildings were discussing so 103 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: giant open atriums in buildings joined to each other by 104 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: enclosed tunnels and bridges cut off from an outside where 105 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: you have a languishing downtown and also just everything is 106 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: just a sweltering gray heat island. Uh. This is actually 107 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: one of the reasons that Trees Atlanta was founded in 108 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: to begin the quote greening of downtown. Oh, I didn't 109 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: know that, So I don't know exactly how far this 110 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 1: far back this reputation goes, but at least today Atlanta 111 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: is known as a city that has an unusual amount 112 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: of trees and it's in its urban center. Yeah, well, 113 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: as far as downtown Atlanta goes, especially a lot of 114 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 1: that is we can think Trees Atlanta for so that 115 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: all that's very very local to us. But I think 116 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: these are all great examples of some of the you know, 117 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 1: the discussions that take place over the use of the 118 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: sky bridge and next where the direction we'd like to 119 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: go in though is taking a step back and talking 120 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: about for the most part, taking a step back. But 121 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: a lot of this is also still contemporary as well. 122 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: But talking about futurism and the sky bridge the ideas 123 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: that end up being wrapped up in concepts that have 124 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: sky bridges in them. You know, what we're what we're 125 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: actually trying to achieve, And what are some of the 126 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: visions sort of the loftier ideas that are caught up 127 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: in all of this, and indeed, what are some of 128 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: the really pivotal forward facing ideas that we can point to, 129 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: uh in the early twentieth century. So, when I was 130 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: thinking about the social meaning of sky bridges, especially in 131 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: science fiction, it's interesting. I have a general sense that 132 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: sky bridges are often used in fictional architecture to emphasize 133 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: exactly this kind of theme you were just talking about. 134 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: It was sort of people living in elevated tubes of 135 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: privilege that disconnect them from the realities below. And one 136 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: specific example is that I had a pretty distinct memory 137 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: of the movie Metropolis, the nine Fritz long movie, UH, 138 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: sort of German expressionist science fiction masterpiece. UH. And my idea, 139 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: at least in my head, was that this movie was 140 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: full of sky bridges. But when I did a Google search, 141 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: I didn't find a lot of examples. The main thing 142 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: I actually found in screenshots appeared to be rail lines 143 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: connecting the tops of buildings, and I found what looks like, 144 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, it looks like hand drawn UH illustrations 145 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: based on the movie that do appear to have like 146 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: connected enclosed hallways, but I'm not sure how accurate my 147 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: memory that the city in Metropolis is full of sky 148 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: bridges is. Nevertheless, for some reason, I had that impression 149 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: there certainly are these these elevated rail lines going between 150 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: UH skyscraper tops and Metropolis. Is A is a great 151 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: dystopian sci fi film, one of the major themes of 152 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: which is economic injustice. It it presents a sort of 153 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: class bifurcated society where you have, you know, idle rich 154 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: people sort of frittering away their days up in the 155 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: tops of great tall buildings, apparently rarely or never having 156 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: to go down into the streets. And meanwhile, the workers 157 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: and the factories who make this techno utopia possible are 158 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: confined to physically lower spaces, even subterranean tunnels and caverns. 159 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: And eventually there there is a revolt in the in 160 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: the film, but the theme is certainly there. But though 161 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: maybe it doesn't have as many sky bridges as I 162 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: actually remember, and I don't know, maybe they're just not 163 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: coming through in the screen, you know, grabs that people 164 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: have put up on the internet. I think there are 165 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: definitely sky bridges in Metropolis. I know that some of 166 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: the sources I was looking at they referenced specifically early 167 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: twentieth century science fiction cinematography. And when you're talking about that, 168 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: you're talking about Metropolis. I mean, Metropolis is the the 169 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: the example of a futuristic cinema from from from especially 170 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: the twenties part excellence, you know, I mean, this is it, 171 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: this is the big one. And h I did want 172 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: to note that this vision of tall buildings occupied by 173 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: the rich at the top while the workers live down 174 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: on the ground. This, interestingly, it squares with some reality, 175 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: such as the idea of like I don't know, you know, 176 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 1: the penthouse apartment. But also the class associations are often inverted. 177 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: Like I was reading some actual research papers about the 178 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: psychological and social impact of living in tall buildings, which 179 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: I'll get into in a minute, and these studies often 180 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 1: cited the exact opposite that there there are widespread assumptions 181 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: of high high rise living being associated with lack of 182 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: economic means, but as much as architecture is often a 183 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: metaphor for for economic realities, I think also lots of 184 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: sci fi has visions of future urban spaces where the 185 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: tops of tall buildings are connected, and doesn't necessarily have 186 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: that meaning. It's not always a class critique. I think 187 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: sometimes instead it's supposed to be taken as a sign 188 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: of a complex or complicated a did society, that there 189 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: are avenues connecting things back and forth, like the like 190 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: the arteries of a circulatory system, that it's a complex 191 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: and not of associations resembling a kind of like the 192 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: vines in a jungle in physical form. And and of course, 193 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: and in fact there's sort of a literal analogy to 194 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: the the biological architecture of a rainforest, because on a rainfort, 195 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: in a rainforest, you know, you have sort of one 196 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: level of life going on at the forest floor, which 197 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: of course is all connected by the continuous surface. But 198 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: then you have the tree canopy level where the the 199 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: lateral connection of the ground level is replicated up above. Yeah, 200 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: and so I think even in sci fi movies without 201 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: an economic critique, there we see all these hallways going 202 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: back and forth between the skyscrapers and it just makes 203 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: us feel like, wow, it's so complex and there's so 204 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: much going on, and it would be you know, it 205 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: would be hard for me to even understand how the 206 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 1: you know, the many layers of this society. Yeah, because 207 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: it's interesting to crack this nut. Because one thing, and 208 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 1: I'll come back to some sources that touch on this 209 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: in a bit. If you think of like the upper 210 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: penthouse of a of a of a very tall building, 211 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: of skyscraper, what have you, the thing is like that 212 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: is a dead end. Uh. That is the the point 213 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: at which you you generally have no choice but to 214 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: turn around and come back down. Um. And uh, you 215 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: know you can say, oh, well maybe there's a helicopter 216 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 1: port up there. Okay, well there's that. Um. And certainly 217 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: you can extend this by pointing out that while some 218 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: of the futuristic visions of cities and where we're going 219 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 1: with they have been planning, they also often involved say 220 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of flying cars moving around or other 221 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: flying the flying vehicles, flying machines that are serving as 222 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: as a way to connect these isolated islands in the sky. 223 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: The classic examples of that would be like Blade Runner. 224 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: Now I think you could assume that maybe with Blade Runner, 225 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: like you look at some architectural features and say, there's 226 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: implied critique here. There there's some kind of implied critique 227 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: about the society we're being shown. But there are other 228 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: cases where I don't know if there is. It's just 229 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: sort of like inherited science fiction texture. Like in the 230 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: Star Wars prequels, you see that traffic going back and 231 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: forth at many levels. There's like you know, like the 232 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: layers of a cake, the different criss crossing streams of 233 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: flying cars. Yeah, yeah, I mean there's definitely an underworld 234 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: to Coorisson as well. But yeah, there are other films 235 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: like I don't know, The Fifth Element, for example, has 236 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: a lot of cool flying cars and that that feels 237 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: may be more like just sci fi texture. But to 238 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: come back to this idea like Corisson with an underworld 239 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: and all of this, I can't help but think, of course, 240 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: of Dante's Inferno and all of this, and think again 241 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: of the of the skyscraper as mountain in Dante's Divine Comedy. 242 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: We of course have the complexities of the the underworld 243 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: of Inferno. We have the mount of Purgatory that extends 244 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: upward and reaches the point of paradise, because because then 245 00:13:58,640 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: in the third book, of course, we have to have 246 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 1: only realm and the heavenly realm. I guess we might 247 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: we might well compare to some of these visions of 248 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: the the the upper parts of skyscrapers being connected together. 249 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: We don't want isolation and loneliness in our heavens. We 250 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: want elaborate complexity. Ah, this maybe a more apt analogy 251 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: even than you intended, because you remember, like how often 252 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: in the Paradiso Dante just talks about how like I 253 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: couldn't describe what I was seeing. Yeah, it's just and 254 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: and certainly when you look at illustrations, it's you know, 255 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: you can have a pretty firm map of of of 256 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: the inferno, pretty firm map of the mouth of Purgatory. 257 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, Paradise is just this, like swirling circles and 258 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: interconnected wheels. Of course, any of these cinematic examples we're 259 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: looking at, yeah, they they hearken back to Metropolis. Metropolis 260 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: is the granddaddy of them all. And Metropolis is one 261 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: of those movies that they just stands the test of time. 262 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: It's certainly worth taking a look at again. Uh, but 263 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: while it is one of the most popular, enduring and 264 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: certainly sci fi influential visions of sky bridges and this 265 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: interconnected skyscraper world. Um. That film, too, was continuing trends 266 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: of futurism, which apparently can be traced back to American 267 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: folk artist Erastus Salisbury Field, who lived eighteen o five 268 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: through nineteen hundred. So I didn't even live to see Metropolis, 269 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: but he did this, this wonderfully intriguing work titled Historical 270 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: Monument of the American Republic um eighteen sixty seven through 271 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty eight being the dates on this piece, and 272 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: definitely looked this up. You can find images of this 273 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: online and Joe, I've included an image of this for 274 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: you here. Oh okay, So I think this vision of 275 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: the future is that everyone will get to live in 276 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: their own Tower of Babel. Yeah it is. It is 277 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: very uh brugal esque. I would say these don't instantly 278 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: read a skyscrapers to the modern I but I mean 279 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: there there are certainly architectural features here that you will 280 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: see on modern tall buildings. But yeah, this, this is, 281 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: this looks like a fantastic realm. So whereas in a 282 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: more mundane age you you have the jealous competition with 283 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: your neighbor for who can have the prettier lawn or 284 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: the fancier I don't know, satellite TV antenna. Uh. In 285 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: this case, you're competing to see who can kill God first. Yeah. 286 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: And if they're gonna pull it off, they're gonna do it. 287 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: From these what looked to be like penthouse temples kind 288 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: of goes are in in their structure that are all 289 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: connected by bridges and have just oodles of statues at 290 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: the top. I assume those are statues. Uh, and this 291 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: is and they literally appear to be clouds swirling around them. 292 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: I mean it's a cool drawing. Yeah. Yeah. So this 293 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: was created for the Philadelphia Centennial Exhibition in eighteen seventy 294 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: six and Woulden Safaric the the authors that I referenced 295 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:57,239 Speaker 1: in the first episode. They say that this image influenced 296 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: a number of other artists, including Charles R. Land Um 297 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: and Vernon hoe Bailey, who created the night Streets High 298 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 1: in the Air illustrations. These are also worth checking out, 299 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: and Joe I have included two examples of these for you. Now, 300 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: these are not necessarily uh sky bridges are skyways in 301 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: the more narrow sense that we're talking about earlier of 302 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: basically an enclosed hallway that's got stuff all around the 303 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: But these are still interesting because they are ideas of 304 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: the bridge connecting skyscrapers buildings at height, having a second 305 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: level or maybe multiple levels of lateral connection. But here 306 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: they're just open streets. I mean that's interesting too. Yeah, 307 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: and you see a train moving through one of them, 308 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: like a great worm burrowing through this behemoth. Um. Yeah, 309 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: these are these are impressive images that also have uh, 310 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's the coloration, at least the versions 311 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: I have here, Like one is definitely like a charcoal 312 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: looking black and white, and the other has this kind 313 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: of washed out, um like orange and brown temp to it. 314 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 1: It makes it feel kind of apocalyptic in some ways. 315 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: But still this yeah, this was roughly twenty years before 316 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: we'd see such images in cinema. Another key twentieth century 317 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: figure in all of this was editor and publisher Moses King, 318 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: who commissioned many such images for King's Views of New York. Uh. 319 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: This was a book that came out, and I've included 320 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: a cover from from this publication for you, Joe. And 321 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: as you can see, this one's just crazy with it. 322 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: They're just bridges connecting all of these skyscrapers, skyscrapers that 323 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: that look more um contemporary for this time period. But 324 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: then also flying machines galore. Oh, your city is full 325 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 1: of biplanes. Were minds full of triplanes? Yeah, I see 326 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: some airships. Uh, pretty fantastic looking. So this is what 327 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: would in Safaric have to say in their paper, and 328 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: that paper again if anyone wants to check that out, 329 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: it is skybridges, a history and a view to the 330 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: near future, they write. Quote. The early skybridge sky city 331 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: portrayals came about as a direct response to very real 332 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: urban issues which were pressing at the time. Primary of 333 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: these urban issues was the impact that both tall buildings 334 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: and increased vehicular traffic were having on the ground floor 335 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 1: urban condition. Tall buildings were increasingly growing in height and 336 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: overcrowding the street, and the conflict between pedestrian and vehicular 337 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: traffic was increasing. The recurring themes in all the early 338 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: futuristic visions evolved as a response to these problems, both 339 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: the stepped back tiered skyscraper and the multi level circulation system. 340 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: The stepped back skyscraper was seen as a way to 341 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: preserve light and air on congested, over developed New York streets, 342 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: and the multi level circulation system a practical organizational tool 343 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: to handle the vast number of new vehicles and people 344 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: flooding into the city. Ah, So to come in to rob. 345 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: I don't think you explained this one yet, but the 346 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: the idea of the stepped back teared skyscraper results also interesting. 347 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: So you're imagining something. Well, actually this might explain the 348 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: idea of the why the towers in that drawing look 349 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: like the Tower of Babel from from Broigel. You know that, 350 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: like it's a terrorists I don't know what you call it, 351 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: stadium seating levels? You know that they go back each level. Uh, 352 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: and this, I guess would let more light into the city, right, 353 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: I mean this this also factored into a few other 354 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: design issues that and engineering issues that were were definitely 355 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: present in buildings of that time period. And and sometimes 356 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:37,719 Speaker 1: it was like the code of the city that if 357 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: you built it, you had to have upper level stepped 358 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,439 Speaker 1: back from the street a certain amount. Interesting. Now, another 359 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 1: another name to mention here American architect, illustrator and poet 360 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: Hugh Ferris no connection to GAYL. Ferris Jr. Ferris Wheel fame. 361 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,640 Speaker 1: Their last names are spelled differently, but Hugh Ferris another 362 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: big name who created uh some images for Nines, the 363 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 1: Metropolis of Tomorrow and Joe. If you look at these, 364 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: just beautiful art deco black and white illustrations. Uh, you know, 365 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: these are pretty fabulous, Like this is Gotham City. They 366 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 1: make me think of the Oscar statue for some reason. Yeah, yeah, 367 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: I couldn't say why, but they are very pretty. Thank Yeah, 368 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 1: I guess I just want to drive home that this 369 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:32,239 Speaker 1: this craving for sky bridges and interconnected skyscrapers like this. 370 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: It's it's kind of this mix of this attempt to 371 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: solve practical problems while also clearly to you know, to 372 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: create beautiful architecture, to bring dreams into physical reality. And 373 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: uh and I imagine there's a bit of of of 374 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: of of pushing and pull between those, uh, those aspirations. Well, yeah, 375 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: and I think you you know, we've talked about some 376 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: of the dystopian associations of of sky bridges in science fiction, 377 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: but they certainly don't have to have those. And in 378 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: some ways you look at interconnecting higher levels of buildings 379 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: as a very positive social outcome especially given that it 380 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: just looks like the reality is urban population density is 381 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: probably going to continue to increase. Um. You know, they're 382 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: strong urbanization trends worldwide. People are more often just moving 383 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: further into city centers. Into percent of the world's population 384 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: lived in cities. The World Health Organization estimates that by 385 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: twenty fifty that number will probably climb to about sixty 386 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,959 Speaker 1: six percent. It's hard to know for sure, but if 387 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: you know, trends continue, so people are continually crowding more 388 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: and more into cities. Population density is increasing, and where 389 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: we're going to fit all those people that there is 390 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: no way to generate additional surface area, So the main 391 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: direction you have to go would be up or down. Um, 392 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: So I guess you could dig into tunnels, but you know, 393 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 1: natural light is nice, so you want to go up? Yeah. Yeah. 394 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: And and to your point, like access is also a 395 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: big point that's not necessarily going to be as baked 396 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: into the architectural design. Um, you know, just to to 397 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: take it in a different direction. It's like the difference 398 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,719 Speaker 1: between a fully public park and a and a membership 399 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: based golf course in a city. Yes, like one of 400 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: the they're both big green spaces. But they're totally different 401 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: in how they connect with the city and the people 402 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: of the city exactly. So you can imagine a a 403 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: city full of tall buildings that are connected at upper levels, 404 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 1: just providing new kind of public spaces in the In 405 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: the better version of this future, where you know, it's 406 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: like the streets below, there's new things to see and 407 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,880 Speaker 1: do up their new places to live and and uh 408 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: sites to visit. And so when you look at these 409 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: sci fi visions of a future where tall buildings are 410 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: often connected by sky bridges and other lateral thoroughfares, again 411 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: creating a kind of like like the canopy level of 412 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: the trees and a rainforest, it implies the society where 413 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: one can travel from build to building at the top 414 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 1: level without ever having to go down to the bottom, 415 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: exit the building, and use the surface level streets. And 416 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: I guess what that means about if you're trying to 417 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 1: imagine the life people would live in that environment, it's 418 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: just a life where there are fewer reasons to exit 419 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: the high rise environment. So today, if you live in 420 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 1: a tall building, you probably need to exit that building 421 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 1: to do most things, to see family and friends, to 422 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: go to work, to go shopping and so forth. But 423 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: what if all of those things were also in the 424 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: tops of nearby buildings and you could travel across sky 425 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: bridges from one to the other. That that's clearly a 426 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: future that some people have in mind, and it's not 427 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: impossible to imagine something like this. But if you are 428 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: imagining that as the future, it's worth asking how would 429 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: this situation affect our minds and our culture. You know, 430 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: you can such a radical restructuring of the you know, 431 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: the location and architecture of our lives, that that's probably 432 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: not totally neutral. So has anybody looked into the question 433 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: of what being in a high rise all the time 434 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: does to people? Are there psychological effects of spending more 435 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: of your time in the upper floors? And it turns 436 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: out yes, there actually is a good bit of research 437 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: on this subject. So I came across a review of 438 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: the existing body of literature on this from by a 439 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: couple of scholars affiliated with Cornell University. So this paper 440 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: is by Solid Clintari and Mardel Shepley. It was published 441 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: in the journal Housing Studies again one and it's called 442 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: Psychological and Social Impacts of High Rise Buildings. A review 443 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: of the post occupancy evaluation literature. So this paper looks 444 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: as specifically at what are called post occupancy evaluation studies, 445 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: which are the quote evaluation of buildings in a systemic 446 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: and rigorous manner after they have been built and occupied. 447 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: This systemic evaluation measures and monitors the performance of a 448 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: built environment using data gathered from behavioral techno, coal and 449 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 1: functional observation. So this is what what's happening in buildings 450 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: after people have moved in and lived there now. Unfortunately, 451 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: this is another one of those social science areas where 452 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: there are lots of different studies, but they aren't always 453 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: perfectly easy to compare to each other because they're not 454 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: always measuring exactly the same thing, or maybe limited in scope, 455 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 1: or have results that conflict with one another. But a 456 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: few trends do seem to emerge from this literature. The 457 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: top line I would say is that spending your life 458 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 1: up in a tall building is associated with some fairly 459 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: consistent negative consequences for life and health, especially for lower 460 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: income occupants, but that these negative effects can probably be 461 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: mitigated or even erased by better design of high rise 462 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: living spaces. So what are some of the negative effects 463 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: that have been repeatedly found to be associated with high 464 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: rise living. I want to mention a couple of these 465 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: in more detail and then give some summary comments In 466 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: terms of the ones I'm gonna mention more Detai Hill. 467 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: One of them appears to be loneliness and social isolation. 468 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 1: So since the nineteen seventies, researchers have found that people 469 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 1: living in high rises are likely to experience more feelings 470 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: of loneliness and less social and community engagement. Why would 471 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: this be well? The authors of this review right quote 472 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 1: Ronald two thousand seven indicated a relative deficiency in social 473 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 1: engagement in a broad comparative study of European high rise 474 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: housing and attributed this isolation to designs that quote support 475 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: individualization and anonymity. A study conducted in Singapore reported minimal 476 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: neighborly relations and concluded that high rise living quote does 477 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: not readily build community. So at least, what some of 478 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 1: these studies seem to conclude is that there's something about 479 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: the way we are building high rise building high rise 480 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: residential buildings that sort of discourages people from forming community 481 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: relationships with their neighbors and encourages a kind of isolated 482 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: way of living that it sort of makes you feel 483 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: like you need to retreat into an anonymous space. Oh, 484 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,479 Speaker 1: once again, I'm reminded of the lyrics of Warren zevon 485 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: Um from Splendid Isolation. I want to live on the 486 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 1: upper east side and never go down in the streets. 487 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I didn't even think of that, but yeah. 488 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: And so the authors of this review that they look 489 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: at a number of studies from different places all around 490 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: the world Scotland, Hong Kong, India, which all found that 491 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 1: high rise living was more associated with things like loneliness, 492 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: anti social behavior, decreased trust in neighbors, and stuff like that. However, uh, 493 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: and this seems to be important. I think. The researchers 494 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: note that it may not actually be the fact that 495 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: you were high up off the ground that causes this, 496 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: Like it might not actually be the elevation. It may 497 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: be more the kind of more kind of side effect 498 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: resulting from trends in the design of high rise buildings. 499 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: In other words, it may just happen to be that 500 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: high rise buildings are designed in ways that discourage social 501 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: interaction and community and that breed loneliness and isolation. But 502 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: that would be the case no matter what floor you 503 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: lived on. So it's not a not a case of 504 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: what if if God wanted us to live in the skies, 505 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: he would have given us wings. It's more of a 506 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: situation where well and were human beings are not wired 507 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: to live in this kind of isolation generally speaking, like 508 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: we are social creatures who need to have some level 509 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: of community around us. Yes, and also that there's some 510 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: indication that maybe the designs of high rise residential buildings, 511 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: when they do force interaction between residents, it tends to 512 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: be negative interactions, like the author's site of study of 513 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: of high rise residential buildings in Paris, which found that 514 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: people attributed their poor relationships to quote, overcrowded conditions in 515 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: their high rises, which they've viewed as prompting irritability and conflict. 516 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: So it's possible that friendly designed spaces for high rise 517 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: life would not produce these negative effects at all. And 518 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: then I thought this was really interesting. To further complicate things, 519 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: there are some studies that don't find this association, or 520 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: even find the exact opposite, with people living in high 521 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: rises having fairly strong community bonds, especially when building designs 522 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: include things like central courtyard areas like common spaces where 523 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: people can gather, or when residents had pre existing external 524 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: social connections, meaning that like they know each other in 525 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: some capacity other than just being neighbors in the building, 526 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: maybe they work together, or they they are you know, 527 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: knew each other before they moved in. Uh to read 528 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: from the authors here quote. In many of these latter studies, 529 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: various sociological factors in the overall environmental design, rather than 530 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: high rise buildings per se, appear to be more relevant 531 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,239 Speaker 1: to the health of social interactions. It's also notable that 532 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: all of the included studies that found positive community relationships 533 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: in high rise contexts were conducted in East or Southeast Asia, 534 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: such as Singapore, Taiwan, or Hong Kong, while the majority 535 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: of studies that found negative community impacts were carried out 536 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: in the US and Europe. And so, I don't know 537 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: what would be the cause of these cultural differences in 538 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: the impact of high rise buildings. I don't know if 539 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: there it's a result of different trends in architecture in 540 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: these places or cultural differences, but those divergent outcomes are interesting. 541 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 1: This is fascinating. Yeah, it reminds me I've been I've 542 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: been watching this show on Apple TV titled Home, which 543 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: is about different specifically about different home designs that have 544 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: been constructed that you know, that explore new ideas or 545 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: explore old ideas. And in the show they do get 546 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: into some of some of the cultural aspects. It makes 547 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: me wonder like if if multigenerational households are a part 548 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: of this equation, because you definitely see I mean, in general, 549 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: I think you see this UH, this trend away from 550 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: that with with modern city based living, but perhaps less 551 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: so in UH in like East Asian models versus European 552 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: and and US models. But but I'm not sure. Well, 553 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: so that's the idea of loneliness and isolation UH and 554 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: and promoting anti social living. But another thing is that 555 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: many studies have found a fairly consistent link between high 556 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: rise living and UH several negative mental health outcomes, though 557 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: in this case, again it's difficult to isolate the high 558 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: rise itself is the causative factor rather than attendant social 559 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: and cultural issues that that often go along with high 560 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: high rise living in places where this has been studied. 561 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 1: So if it is actually living in the high rise 562 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: building that causes negative mental health outcomes, how would that work? Well, 563 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: one explanation would be that this is caused by reducing 564 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: exposure to nature, reducing exposure to vegetation and green space. 565 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: If you are up in the high rise and there's 566 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: not much greenery around you in the you know, rooms 567 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: in the hallways that you that you occupy, and being 568 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,959 Speaker 1: up there, you're just less likely to get out into 569 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: nature at the ground level. That probably will have some 570 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: negative consequences for mental health. And this seems to be 571 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: backed up by at least a couple of studies showing 572 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: that adding more natural elements to high rises. So maybe 573 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: if you include access, like you ease access to green 574 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: space from the upper floors of the high rise, or 575 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: you include green space within those places, that that reduces 576 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: some of these problems. And finally, the authors cites some 577 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: probably important findings about the potential effect of high rise living, 578 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: specifically on childhood growth and development. So they write, quote, 579 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: a number of studies conducted during the nineteen seventies found 580 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: increased behavioral problems, physical health issues, and decreased motor and 581 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: academic skills among children living in high rise buildings. They 582 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: say that these findings have been confirmed in later studies 583 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: several times, and then they write quote, As is the 584 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: case with other demographic population. However, the current research has 585 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: demonstrated that these outcomes are strongly mediated by income level 586 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: and other socioeconomic variables. Children from wealthier families who live 587 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: in high rises are much more likely to have access 588 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,919 Speaker 1: to vibrant play spaces and to experience a greater sense 589 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,319 Speaker 1: of safety and involvement in the surrounding neighborhood, which makes 590 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: it unsurprising that they exhibit few of the developmental issues 591 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: that are widely reported for their less privileged peers. And 592 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: that last point about a sort of economic determinism in 593 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: the outcomes of child development can actually be extracted to 594 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: the findings of this research more broadly. So the authors 595 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: right in their discussion section that you know, one of 596 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: the most significant trends observed here is that quote the 597 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: high rise environment appears to intensify existing socioeconomic divisions. So 598 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: there seems to be a kind of Matthew principle at work, right, 599 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: Like the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. 600 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: So when you when you study wealthy people, it seems 601 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: that the ones living in high rise environments tend to 602 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: report outcomes are just as good or even better than 603 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: equivalent equivalently wealthy people in other built environments, whereas for 604 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 1: lower income people, living in a high rise is correlated 605 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,359 Speaker 1: with a lot of negative outcomes when compared to other 606 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,359 Speaker 1: types of buildings, and this seemingly paradoxical result could have 607 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: It could have a number of causes, so it's hard 608 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: to pin it down to one thing, but to the 609 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: extent that the built environments themselves are at least one 610 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: of those causes, a lot of these unequal outcomes could 611 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: probably be alleviated by better, more humane building design in 612 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: affordable residential high rises, and so some of the better 613 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: designs would probably you know, couldn't be limited to this, 614 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: but would probably include things like the incorporation of these 615 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 1: vibrant shared spaces right essentially courtyards, lobbies, gathering places which 616 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: have safe open spaces for children to play and explore 617 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: and for people to gather. Also, on top of that 618 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: lots of natural light and greenery. These factors seem really 619 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 1: important for people psychological well being. You need to be 620 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: able to see the sun, there need to be plants around, uh. 621 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: And then they also call out things like better wayfinding 622 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,839 Speaker 1: and layout design, though I think they mentioned this more 623 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 1: in the context of like a commercial buildings though that 624 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: matters too, you know. They say the floors of tall 625 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 1: buildings can sometimes be hard to navigate in ways that 626 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,479 Speaker 1: cause a kind of stress and confusion that that really 627 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: builds up onto on you over time. Yeah, like that 628 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,479 Speaker 1: feeling of of exiting the elevator and not really knowing 629 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,760 Speaker 1: like which way you're supposed to go in and yeah 630 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: and uh okay, sort of getting lost in the hallways. Yeah. 631 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 1: Than so, to bring all this back to the idea 632 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,920 Speaker 1: of building this sci fi fantasy city, sort of the 633 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: concrete canopy, if we were to try to build cities 634 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: that had um, that had life, that existed in a 635 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: more consistent way, and the upper levels of buildings, I 636 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: do think that's wible, But it sounds like you need 637 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: to be very careful how you design in that city. 638 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: You'd want to design it in a way that doesn't 639 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: make people miserable and cause these negative downstream outcomes for 640 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: their for their well being and mental health. Again, this 641 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: is not exhaustive of the things you need to do, 642 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 1: but it seems clear that like a very important thing 643 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:23,240 Speaker 1: would be putting plenty of things like parks up there. Um, 644 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: and I think this is partially the spirit of an 645 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: architectural movement I've read about called streets in the Sky, 646 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,280 Speaker 1: where I think the idea is sort of to create 647 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,760 Speaker 1: high rises in which there are lots of public areas 648 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: that are more like the streets on the ground, not 649 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:43,919 Speaker 1: like private hallways, but open spaces connecting desirable destinations that 650 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 1: cause that that have plenty of foot traffic, and of 651 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: course foot traffic is associated with all kinds of positive 652 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: outcomes in residential areas, you know, resultant improvements in public safety, 653 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: and just a positive vibe that comes along with people, 654 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: you know, wanting to hang out and go from place 655 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: to place. I think attempts to design buildings like this 656 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: may may have had some limited success so far, but 657 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: you could imagine it working better if it was more 658 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: widely adopted, if you had more contiguous buildings connected each 659 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 1: with destinations for shopping in public spaces, especially lots of 660 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: greenery and natural light, places that people would want to 661 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,479 Speaker 1: go and be walking around in all the time. Yeah, 662 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,800 Speaker 1: and I guess one of the big challenges here, obviously 663 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: is that one sky bridge is not going to fix it. 664 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 1: Like we're not talking about throw up with skybridge, So 665 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,920 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, throw up to sky bridges and 666 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: we'll fix things. No, you you, you really are talking 667 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: about a whole different approach to treating these these towers, 668 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: the skyscrapers, and they're uh not only you know what's 669 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: available with the the the upper levels, but also the 670 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: street level as well. Uh you know, I mean there 671 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: there are plenty of existing apartment towers in cities like 672 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,919 Speaker 1: Chicago that that were designed with the idea of, yeah, 673 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 1: you don't have to leave this tower, like here your shops, 674 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 1: here's your here's where you park your car, and it's 675 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: all in the various layers of the design, and so 676 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,399 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's almost like a tear down approach. Um, 677 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: you would need a new type of building, a new 678 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 1: type of architecture to create the city. And and so 679 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: there have been some really interesting designs that have emerged 680 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: over the years. Um. One of which that I've been 681 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 1: fascinated by in the past is a Russian concept that 682 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:33,799 Speaker 1: emerged called the the vulcan bugle. Okay, this is um. 683 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: This can be translated as cloud hangers, sky hangers, or 684 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: sky hooks, and these were the brain child of a 685 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: Russian architect by the name of l uh Lisitski, who 686 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: lived eighteen through nine. Um, I encourage everyone out there 687 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 1: to look up some images of these. These are what 688 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: are sometimes described as horizontal skyscrapers. Uh that they were 689 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: never built, but the basic concept here, the the the 690 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:07,800 Speaker 1: idea was that there would be eight, um basically three 691 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 1: story L shaped buildings in Moscow position fifty meters above 692 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 1: the street on three pylons. So yeah, imagine one of those. Um, 693 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: imagine a tetris block that is uh what to what 694 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,439 Speaker 1: two or three up and then it has a little 695 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,799 Speaker 1: L part. Now imagine turning that horizontally, turning it on 696 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 1: its side, and then sticking that up in the air 697 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 1: on a massive pylon. I think, I think it's very 698 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: cool design. Though you can imagine being nervous walking under 699 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,239 Speaker 1: one of these, yes, yeah, um, you know, but I 700 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:42,879 Speaker 1: guess you'd get used to it, you know, the same 701 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,360 Speaker 1: way we get used to the concept of skyscrapers in 702 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 1: the in the air above us. But um, yeah, it's 703 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: it's basically the idea here. It's a wide, horizontal living 704 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,280 Speaker 1: space elevated with a very narrow footprint on the street. 705 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: So again go back to what we're talking thing about earlier, 706 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: like some of the reasons that people were looking at 707 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,879 Speaker 1: sky bridges. Part of it was congestion, vehicular and pedestrian 708 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: congestion below They're like, well, we gotta if you can 709 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 1: reduce the footprint, uh, then then that's great, and then 710 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: if you can connect things above even better. So one 711 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 1: of the central ideas though, on top of this, was 712 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,719 Speaker 1: that Lesinsky didn't think that vertical living was natural for 713 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 1: human beings. He argued that we needed horizontal spaces, and 714 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: this sort of of design, while certainly still requiring vertical 715 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: movement you'd still have to take stairs or elevators up, 716 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 1: it would maximize the horizontal environmental experience. I mean, none 717 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 1: of the empirical researchers I was reading put it in 718 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,320 Speaker 1: exactly those terms, but in a vague way that seems 719 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: to square pretty strongly with with the research I was 720 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 1: just looking at that, you know, like that these what 721 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: do they call these vibrant shared spaces, Like having these big, open, 722 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: horizontal spaces seems to be very helpful in creating a 723 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:04,319 Speaker 1: more humane living environment. Yeah. Yeah. Um. On top of this, 724 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 1: there was the idea that these pylons would extend into 725 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 1: the ground, connecting to a subway system. And then he 726 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,279 Speaker 1: also even factored in the idea. Okay, if you have 727 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: multiple of these, um these these sky hangers, the cloud 728 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,239 Speaker 1: hangers in a given part of the city, it might 729 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 1: be confusing. They all look the same. Uh No, he's saying, 730 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,880 Speaker 1: little color code them. That way you have, you know, 731 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,400 Speaker 1: you're able to instantly tell where you are in reference 732 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: to another. So it's not just a bunch of sort 733 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,720 Speaker 1: of alien gray buildings all emerging from the same area. 734 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,960 Speaker 1: No one is say orange, one is red, one is green, 735 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: et cetera. Also, these would be positioned at intersections where 736 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 1: traffic and congestion was that it's worse freeing up room. 737 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,239 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, so these are these are fascinating to look 738 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,880 Speaker 1: at some of the the images of what could have 739 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:56,040 Speaker 1: been here. And while there are modern buildings with fantastic 740 00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 1: cantilever designs that that bring these images to mind, no 741 00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:04,000 Speaker 1: volcan Googles were ever actually built, certainly not in Russia, 742 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 1: and largely it seems to be just two ahead of 743 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,560 Speaker 1: its time. Uh, partially as a concept perhaps, but also 744 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:15,920 Speaker 1: just I think engineering wise. Uh. The Sitsky seemed to think, well, 745 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,400 Speaker 1: it's just we weren't ready to build these. Yet you know, 746 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,840 Speaker 1: as I'm looking at these pictures, though, a consequence was 747 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 1: emerging in my mind. We've been talking about more more positive, 748 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 1: more equitable, more humane ways to design cities that are 749 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 1: connected at the upper levels. But I was just thinking 750 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 1: about how, to some degree, some of the benefits of 751 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,920 Speaker 1: of horizontal space are kind of zero some right, because 752 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 1: if you were to end up creating a city that's 753 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 1: totally covered in these horizontal spaces at higher levels, you'd 754 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,520 Speaker 1: essentially be cutting off the ground level from sunlight. You know, 755 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,719 Speaker 1: like you get some diagonal sunlight, but there are some 756 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,120 Speaker 1: limits on what you could put up above without negatively 757 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 1: impacting the quality of life below. And then you get 758 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 1: back into that that possible vision of of of bifurcation 759 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 1: with with negative consequences at the ground. Yeah, Like, oops, 760 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:12,319 Speaker 1: I accidentally created a shell and created a new underworld. Yeah, 761 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,480 Speaker 1: I thought of that, because this goes beyond just sort 762 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,040 Speaker 1: of like like hallways connecting tall buildings that might have uh, 763 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,880 Speaker 1: you know, horizontal spaces that are vertically aligned with their 764 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: footprint on the ground. But this is like reaching out 765 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,920 Speaker 1: over empty space. So if you imagine lots of buildings 766 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,400 Speaker 1: like that, they just start to kind of become a 767 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,600 Speaker 1: like a roof for the city. Yeah. And certainly when 768 00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 1: you look at look at these these concepts, they don't 769 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: or certainly the original concepts, they don't really create this 770 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 1: sense that the like a vibrant street level uh community 771 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 1: was very much part of the that the aim here 772 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,719 Speaker 1: now looking into the future would And Sapharic point out 773 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,840 Speaker 1: that one of the lingering failures of tall buildings is 774 00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 1: just that lack of integration into the urban fabric. So 775 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,279 Speaker 1: obviously there are a lot of cool skybridges, but most 776 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,640 Speaker 1: buildings are not connected in this way. They're connected to 777 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,799 Speaker 1: the city at ground level, and there's a broad spectrum 778 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,919 Speaker 1: of what it might be like at ground level, from 779 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,520 Speaker 1: having like a vibrant community and shops to it just 780 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:19,279 Speaker 1: being uh, you know, desolation in some cases. Um. And 781 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,200 Speaker 1: so the goal of many tall buildings, it seems, has 782 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,400 Speaker 1: has has very much been not to fit in with 783 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,239 Speaker 1: the world beneath, but to stand out from it. And 784 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 1: so they present an idea that may feel equal parts 785 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 1: fantastic and reasonable. Uh. And and perhaps today as it 786 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,920 Speaker 1: has been for for decades, quote, if cities concentrate perhaps 787 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,080 Speaker 1: ten or a hundred times more people at a given 788 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,239 Speaker 1: location through building tall. There is also a need to 789 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,839 Speaker 1: replicate the facilities that exist at the ground plane up 790 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,840 Speaker 1: in the sky, including the parks and the sidewalks, the 791 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,880 Speaker 1: schools and the hospitals and other public civic functions. The 792 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:04,080 Speaker 1: ground plane should be considered as a duplicable layer of 793 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,920 Speaker 1: the city which needs to be replicated, at least in 794 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:11,480 Speaker 1: part at strategic horizons within and between buildings in the sky, 795 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,480 Speaker 1: not as a replacement of the ground plane, but as 796 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,719 Speaker 1: an addition to it. Every tall building would then need 797 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,840 Speaker 1: to be considered as a vital element in an overall 798 00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:26,280 Speaker 1: three dimensional urban framework, rather than a standalone icon superimposed 799 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,439 Speaker 1: on a two dimensional urban plan. I think that's very 800 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:33,200 Speaker 1: well put. Yeah, this idea that again you're not replacing 801 00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 1: the street, but you were augmenting it. You're replicating it, 802 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 1: so you would have still have a vibrant street level 803 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,560 Speaker 1: a community, but that you would have this sky level 804 00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:46,160 Speaker 1: community as well. Yeah. So yeah, I think it's some fascinating, 805 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:51,319 Speaker 1: fascinating ideas here. Um. I would obviously love to hear 806 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,600 Speaker 1: from tower dwellers out there, and and former tower tower 807 00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,200 Speaker 1: dwellers and perhaps future tower dwellers who are listening to 808 00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,280 Speaker 1: this show because I, for one, I've I've never lived 809 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:05,400 Speaker 1: in a tall building. I've I don't think I've really 810 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,160 Speaker 1: worked in a tall building. I mean our most recent well, 811 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,320 Speaker 1: I mean our most recent studios, our most recent office 812 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,520 Speaker 1: building was what what fourth floor of a building? Well, 813 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,160 Speaker 1: the most recently the one we used to record in 814 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,600 Speaker 1: a tall building, I mean, but that was what what 815 00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:26,359 Speaker 1: floor will we be on? Like four? Yeah, it had 816 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,560 Speaker 1: a nice balcony, I remember that, that one, that one. 817 00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,600 Speaker 1: But I guess one of the things about that building 818 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,359 Speaker 1: is that we had for most of the run there, 819 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 1: we had the entire floor and a balcony, so we 820 00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,719 Speaker 1: did have a lot of horizontal space, so maybe that 821 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,480 Speaker 1: was part of it. We didn't feel as locked in. Also, 822 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:48,200 Speaker 1: though that original office had some cubicles, wasn't wasn't full 823 00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,239 Speaker 1: open office yet. Oh yeah, I did love those cubicles. 824 00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,800 Speaker 1: They were stylish cubicles too. They weren't your They weren't 825 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:56,800 Speaker 1: like what you would see on the office or something. 826 00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,800 Speaker 1: They were more like what you would see on severance. 827 00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:03,480 Speaker 1: You know. They're they're fun cubicles. Yeah. But anyway, like 828 00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 1: I said, we'd love to hear from everyone out there 829 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:06,719 Speaker 1: in different parts of the world. What is it? What 830 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,719 Speaker 1: is it like living in the tall building? Does any 831 00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,279 Speaker 1: of this match up with what we've been discussing in 832 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,239 Speaker 1: these episodes? Or again, your favorite skywalks? Tell me about 833 00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:21,640 Speaker 1: your skywalks? Um uh, what are your favorite? What is it? 834 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,400 Speaker 1: What has it been like to traverse some of the 835 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,040 Speaker 1: notable skywalks out there in our world. In the meantime, 836 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:29,640 Speaker 1: if you would like to check out other episodes of 837 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,279 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind, head on over to the 838 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,479 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind podcast feed. Get that wherever 839 00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,800 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. You'll find core episodes on Tuesdays 840 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,279 Speaker 1: and Thursdays. You'll find short form artifacts or monster facts 841 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,520 Speaker 1: on Wednesday's listener mail. On Mondays and on Fridays, we 842 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,160 Speaker 1: do weird el Cinema. That's our time to set aside 843 00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:49,560 Speaker 1: most serious concerns and just talk about a weird film. 844 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,680 Speaker 1: Also add this, if you want to be a part 845 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:57,920 Speaker 1: of the Discord channel or proup, Discord whatever Discord world 846 00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,200 Speaker 1: for this show, email us and we'll send you a 847 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,880 Speaker 1: link to join that. I wanted to share that some 848 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,600 Speaker 1: of the users there are doing a book club. It 849 00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,239 Speaker 1: looks like they're planning to read umberto echoes the name 850 00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:10,600 Speaker 1: of the Rose, So if you want to get in 851 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,360 Speaker 1: on that again, email the show. Joe will give you 852 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,200 Speaker 1: the email address in a second and I'll make sure 853 00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,799 Speaker 1: that we get the invite to the discord. To you 854 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,200 Speaker 1: huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth 855 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,759 Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch 856 00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,359 Speaker 1: with us with feedback on this episode or any other, 857 00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,440 Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to 858 00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,280 Speaker 1: say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff 859 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:42,040 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your 860 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,040 Speaker 1: Mind's production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for 861 00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,120 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 862 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:53,600 Speaker 1: or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows. B b 863 00:49:54,320 --> 00:50:03,520 Speaker 1: b b b b BO. It was graduate or propo