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Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome to the Houndation's podcast. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Tony Peterson. It's still the dog days of May here

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Speaker 1: at Meat Eater, and I'm going to talk to a

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Speaker 1: dog trainer named Bob Owens today. Bob hosts a podcast

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Speaker 1: called Loan Duck's gun Dog Chronicles, and he is a

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Speaker 1: master of figuring out how to get dogs to level up,

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Speaker 1: which is what we are going to dive pretty deep

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Speaker 1: into right now. This episode of Houndations is brought to

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Speaker 1: you by Shields, an employee owned outdoor powerhouse where you

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Speaker 1: can get a new set of golf clubs, a high

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Speaker 1: end fishing rod, and of course dog training supplies. You know,

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Speaker 1: whether you're in the market for a new crate, maybe

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Speaker 1: an e caller, or maybe just a fresh set of

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Speaker 1: training bumpers, Shields has you covered. Check out their offerings

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Speaker 1: at shiels dot com. I met Bob Owens down in

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Speaker 1: South Carolina a few months back at the Southeast and

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Speaker 1: Wildlife Expo in Charleston, and predictably, we almost instantly started

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Speaker 1: talking about dogs. Bob is the host of a podcast

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Speaker 1: dedicated to all things related to training dogs, but he's

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Speaker 1: also just one hell of a dog trainer. Himself, who

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Speaker 1: has molded some of the best bird dogs and field

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Speaker 1: trial dogs in the country. He's an absolute expert at

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Speaker 1: getting the most out of dogs, and that's what we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about on this show right now. Bob.

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Speaker 1: It is good to see your smiling face, buddy.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: So you spent all day to day training, huh I did?

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Speaker 2: I just got back and dogs are fed and cooling

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Speaker 2: down and chilling out and hop on a podcast.

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Speaker 1: How many dogs did you work with today?

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Speaker 2: We have twenty twenty one right now, and this is

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Speaker 2: like the window of you know, I go south in

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Speaker 2: the winter and come home and summer's kicking off. So

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Speaker 2: by middle of May, we'll be up to about thirty dogs.

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Speaker 2: And that's kind of mine.

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Speaker 1: So how many of those do you actually get your

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Speaker 1: hands on a day, all of.

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Speaker 2: Them, all of them multiple times today?

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Speaker 1: How do you manage that?

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Speaker 2: It's a great question. Really, it's being motivated and disciplined

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Speaker 2: with your time. So, you know, I eat lunch in

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Speaker 2: three minutes, you know, I bring my lunch and you know,

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Speaker 2: today it was a rotisserie chicken that I just wolfed

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Speaker 2: down as fast as I could with a Seltzer water

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Speaker 2: and I'm onto the next dog. So really making the

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Speaker 2: most out of your time from the minute you wake

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Speaker 2: up to the minute they're done. I do have a

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Speaker 2: couple of employees, and so I can say, like, you guys,

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Speaker 2: take this crew over here and do that while I

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Speaker 2: run blinds and then we come back together. But typically

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Speaker 2: dogs are getting two to three setups or sessions, you know,

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Speaker 2: could be collar conditioning and obedience and then go out

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Speaker 2: and get their marks, or they're doing force fetch and

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Speaker 2: dogs stand work while I'm running teapath stuff like that,

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Speaker 2: so we it's not just me touching all thirty but

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Speaker 2: yeah we're rolling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you have to plan. You have to kind

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Speaker 1: of meticulously plan your day out and know that you

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Speaker 1: have a you know, twenty minutes for this dog or

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Speaker 1: a half hour for this dog or whatever, and you

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Speaker 1: got to get the most out of them in that

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Speaker 1: timeframe because you can't see something and decide, well, we're

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Speaker 1: going to go an extra hour with this dog because

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Speaker 1: it's just not a possibility.

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Speaker 2: Well, actually that's I would argue that that's even too

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Speaker 2: much time. So we do know an obedient session might

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Speaker 2: be five to eight minutes. You know, you start them out,

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Speaker 2: bringing them up, getting them high, having fun. Let's go

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Speaker 2: loosen them up, and then we get into whatever they're

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Speaker 2: working on with their obedience session, jumping on a dog stand,

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Speaker 2: getting in the ground blind, doing a little heel work,

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Speaker 2: jumping on the dog stand, get a bumper heel work,

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Speaker 2: get them going, and then end on a high note.

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Speaker 2: If you were in that'll be my first piece of advice.

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Speaker 2: I guess for the show is a lot of folks

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Speaker 2: will overdo their one session a day. I'd rather break

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Speaker 2: it up into smaller mini sessions so that dog comes

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Speaker 2: out hot, because what you would end up doing is

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Speaker 2: you've got that dog for ten or fifteen minutes, it's

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Speaker 2: doing really well, and that last fifteen minutes you may

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Speaker 2: be losing steam and they start making mistakes, They're getting hot,

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Speaker 2: they're getting mentally exhausted. I'd rather end on a high

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Speaker 2: note and get back into it, you know, an hour later,

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Speaker 2: a half hour later, put them up, have a you know,

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Speaker 2: swig of water, chill out, listen to a couple songs,

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Speaker 2: pull them back out and do it again.

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Speaker 1: So I'm glad you. I'm glad you clarified that because

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Speaker 1: that's a really it's a poignant thing to point out.

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Speaker 1: Is I think that a lot of times people think

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Speaker 1: about a professional trainer and you've got all of these

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Speaker 1: different drills set up, and you're putting in a ton

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Speaker 1: of time each day to these dugs. But really what

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Speaker 1: you've done is you managed to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: be really efficient with them, utilize that attention span, you know,

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Speaker 1: for however long it is, and you're talking when you're

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Speaker 1: talking ten to fifteen minutes of training, I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: half a Simpsons episode. Man Like, when when people are like,

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't have the time, it's it's not

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Speaker 1: that it's like you don't you don't know what to

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Speaker 1: do in that little time frame to get the most

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Speaker 1: out of them. And that's really one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you. When we were chatting

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Speaker 1: out at Seaweed down in Charleston where we met, you

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Speaker 1: were talking about a lot of the dogs that you've

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Speaker 1: trained to like a really high level. You know, these

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Speaker 1: these dogs that are field trial dogs and they've got

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Speaker 1: you know, amazing blood in them, and there's like a

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Speaker 1: that's like a whole different kind of world that's not

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Speaker 1: you know, generally probably not that interesting too, like the

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Speaker 1: average dog owner, but the lessons are like huge, and

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Speaker 1: so that's that's kind of where I wanted to go

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Speaker 1: with you, is how does the average person recognize the

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Speaker 1: ways in which they can sort of level up their dog?

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Speaker 1: And you know, the average guy's not dealing with a

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Speaker 1: field trial champion or anybody who's going to be in contention,

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Speaker 1: but he's dealing with a dog that probably has more

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Speaker 1: potential than he things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that there's a lot of things that

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Speaker 2: we could dive in to to take. You know, a

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Speaker 2: puppy that they get from their buddy who he hunts

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Speaker 2: with the dad, and the dad's a good duck dog,

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Speaker 2: and you know it got bred to the neighbor's other

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Speaker 2: lab and he gets his free puppy from his butt.

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Speaker 2: You know, that dog still could level up and have

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Speaker 2: like a pretty high glass ceiling that hand thrown bumpers

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Speaker 2: in your backyard, fenced in backyard, and it can sit

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Speaker 2: still and go and get that thirty yard throw. That's

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Speaker 2: not challenging the dog at all. You're just exercising the dog.

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Speaker 2: And so the main thing that you know, a short

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Speaker 2: answer to this would be what are we working on,

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Speaker 2: what are our goals? What is the end goal look

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Speaker 2: like to you as the dog owner? And then in

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Speaker 2: each session you're pushing the dog within reason to accomplish

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Speaker 2: these goals. So the example I just gave of hand

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Speaker 2: throwing bumpers in your backyard, that's you know, fifty foot

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Speaker 2: long by fifty foot wide. That's not challenging them. You're

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Speaker 2: just you're feeling good about dogs having a good time,

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Speaker 2: but you're not advancing it and reaching its potential. So

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Speaker 2: go to the soccer field down the road, go to

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Speaker 2: your state land or or you know, BLM, whatever I mean.

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Speaker 2: There's plenty of public land that you can take that

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Speaker 2: dog and challenge them in new environments. There's plenty of

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Speaker 2: training tools that are relatively inexpensive compared to the cost

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Speaker 2: of a dog's life. You know, the handheld shooters. Right,

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Speaker 2: I can throw a bumper probably thirty five forty yards,

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Speaker 2: and due to my profession, I'm pretty accurate. Okay, But

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Speaker 2: if I only throw thirty five yards every day of

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Speaker 2: that dog's life. When you knock a duck down and

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Speaker 2: it sails off, you know, crippled and kind of cuts

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Speaker 2: its wings and sails off seventy That dog is going

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Speaker 2: to one hundred and ten percent. Stop at thirty five

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Speaker 2: yards and begin hunting. We need to get those dogs

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Speaker 2: stretched out, is the term we would do. We stretch

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Speaker 2: them out and get them confident on land and water,

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Speaker 2: going further than you even think they're capable of. Now.

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Speaker 2: So we've got a ten month old puppy hit from

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Speaker 2: New Jersey. His owners came and saw him after our

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Speaker 2: winter trip and he did one hundred and seventy five

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Speaker 2: yard single in my backfield and they were like, holy cow,

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Speaker 2: Now it's cool, right, That's why I was And he's

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Speaker 2: he is nice, he's special, but he's not that special.

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Speaker 2: He's just a was taught how to have confidence and

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Speaker 2: see where that thing fell, run to where he saw

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Speaker 2: it fell, establish a good hunt, and pick it up.

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Speaker 1: So do you like what percentage of dogs that you

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Speaker 1: get in because that's a really common thing, right, Conditioning

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Speaker 1: them to the length in which we can throw or

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Speaker 1: the distance which we can throw a bumper, never using

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Speaker 1: the dummy launcher, never getting a buddy out or a

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Speaker 1: partner to help you do these long range deals, or

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Speaker 1: even just having a dog that's trained to sit and

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Speaker 1: stay and walking out fifty yards and then throwing it

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Speaker 1: the next thirty five yards.

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Speaker 3: Great.

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Speaker 1: How often do you see that all the time? That's great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an epidemic, right, it's what people know, it's

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Speaker 2: what they're comfortable with. But like you said, you've got

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Speaker 2: a partner, you've got a hunt and buddy, maybe you

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Speaker 2: have kids. Send them out and do we call them

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Speaker 2: walking singles. So they've got a bucket full of big

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Speaker 2: white bumpers and they just start walking through the field.

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Speaker 2: So every mark, and a mark is a bird that

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Speaker 2: that dog sees. A blind would be a dog or

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Speaker 2: a bird that that dog doesn't see, and you have

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Speaker 2: to kick them loose and stop them on a whistle

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Speaker 2: and handle them. But a mark is one that they see.

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Speaker 2: And so they're going to walk through this field and

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Speaker 2: throw these bumpers or ducks, which would be great too,

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Speaker 2: But again that's something that people have a harder time

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Speaker 2: getting their hands on, which we can maybe talk about

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Speaker 2: as we go. But get them out there, and that

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Speaker 2: person who's helping you can help that dog be successful

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Speaker 2: with different drills and tools to get the dog to

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Speaker 2: stretch out and feel good about running seventy five yards

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Speaker 2: ninety yards fifty yards.

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Speaker 1: Right, And this is I mean, you know quite a

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Speaker 1: few dog trainers, you know, Docin talks about this a lot,

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Speaker 1: like this is a very common thing that pros recognize

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Speaker 1: and the average dog handler or a dog owner doesn't.

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Speaker 1: And what it is is, you know, I talk a

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Speaker 1: lot about how professional dog trainers can see into the future,

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Speaker 1: like they know what a dog's going to do, and

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Speaker 1: they know the circumstances and the situations that people are

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Speaker 1: going to put dogs in. That when you're training in

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Speaker 1: the backyard, you don't think about that dock sailing like

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Speaker 1: that that that teal that you just tickle a little

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Speaker 1: bit and he makes it way down there in the

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Speaker 1: slough or whatever. But you're going to run into that,

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Speaker 1: like you're never going If you bird hunt even a

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Speaker 1: little bit, you're gonna have birds, even roosters. Sometimes we

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Speaker 1: shoot them and they do that, you know, that flutter

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Speaker 1: out like one hundred and fifty yards and then they

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Speaker 1: land and you're like, okay, now we got to got

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Speaker 1: to get a real mark on them. Because the dogs

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Speaker 1: never have a real mark on that. They're already looking

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Speaker 1: at something else. And so that is like something that

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Speaker 1: the lesson there anyway, is you have to think about

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Speaker 1: how your training is conditioning your dog to perform and

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Speaker 1: where that's going to be at odds with what that

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Speaker 1: dog is going to actually be asked to do in

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Speaker 1: the field, because eventually it's going to be asked to

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Speaker 1: do something that you didn't train for.

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Speaker 2: Like that exactly the thing that we say all the

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Speaker 2: time is you want to over prepare so your dog

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Speaker 2: is underwhelmed. Right, So if he's never seen a shackled

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Speaker 2: live duck and you go duck hunting and the first

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Speaker 2: bird you shoot is crippled and it's flipping and flopping

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Speaker 2: and swimming and diving, and it spooks the young you know,

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Speaker 2: eight to ten month old buppy on its first experience.

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Speaker 2: He was not over prepared and he was overwhelmed, and

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Speaker 2: it can not always screw him up, but it can

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Speaker 2: make it a little bit your job a lot harder

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Speaker 2: to get him to be successful the next time. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, building life experiences from March first to October

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Speaker 2: first is imperative in your dog's first hunting season. And

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Speaker 2: then you know you had made a comment about that

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Speaker 2: five your old dog, Well, once they're steady and obedient

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Speaker 2: and can do you know, fifty to one hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty yard marks. What else could we do? It's fun

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Speaker 2: to go out and make that dog better. You're supposed

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Speaker 2: to enjoy the great outdoors. And it's a sunny, beautiful

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Speaker 2: day today in central New York. Why wouldn't you want

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Speaker 2: to take some bumpers and your dog and go and

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Speaker 2: progress and work on some handling drills and get them

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Speaker 2: running some blinds and teach them multiple marks, and you

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Speaker 2: and your buddy and your two hunting dogs can go

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Speaker 2: out and start honoring each other and working together like

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Speaker 2: there shouldn't be a ceiling whether your dog is exceptional,

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Speaker 2: okay or not great, there's always ways that we can

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Speaker 2: improve them little by little.

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Speaker 1: Right when you're when you're talking about that, one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I get reminded of almost every year,

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Speaker 1: Like with our with our late season feast hunting, which

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Speaker 1: I talk about all the time, we do we do

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Speaker 1: cattail hunts, right Like the public land has cattails on

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Speaker 1: it because it's wet and they can't farm it, and

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Speaker 1: that's where all the birds come in. When the weather

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Speaker 1: gets shitty and it's you know, the winner's starting to

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Speaker 1: kick in, and you see those dogs that don't have

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Speaker 1: any experience and cat tails try to find a rooster

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Speaker 1: and they are just lost, like they've never been in

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Speaker 1: that habitat. And you know, I mean, and you've got

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Speaker 1: a factor in the excitement level. You know, it's chaos.

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Speaker 1: It's just super overwhelming tons of stimuli for them. And

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Speaker 1: you think you can't you know, you can't like perfectly

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Speaker 1: create that training, but you certainly can train in different

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Speaker 1: types of habitat and teach those dogs to work and

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Speaker 1: thick stuff and think through those problems. And if you don't,

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Speaker 1: you're eventually gonna have to figure it out on the

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Speaker 1: fly and it's not gonna work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And or give your dog grace during huntings. Right,

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Speaker 2: That's a big no note to me is losing your

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Speaker 2: patients on the hunt. Like nobody likes to hunt with

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Speaker 2: the guy And I've done it. I've been that guy

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Speaker 2: where you lose your patience because the dog doesn't deliver

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Speaker 2: what you expect of it or hope to expect of it.

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Speaker 2: And so if you're hunting with a buddy and you're

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Speaker 2: yelling because the dog's not coming back and it's not

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Speaker 2: listening and it's chasing pheasants, you know, four hundred yards

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Speaker 2: away as they continue to fly. That's not being prepared either.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're not going to want to go hunting again,

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Speaker 2: right right.

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Speaker 1: And that's again, you know, it's just sort of looking

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Speaker 1: into the future and going, what what how can I

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Speaker 1: get my dog pretty dang comfortable with a lot of

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Speaker 1: different stuff and a lot of different distractions. And when

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Speaker 1: you talk about you know, you talked earlier about you know,

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Speaker 1: the eight to ten month old dog that encounters that

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Speaker 1: first you know, crippled greenhead or whatever. When you talk

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Speaker 1: about that kind of situation with that first season, you

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Speaker 1: got to give them a lot of grace because they're

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Speaker 1: they're going to screw up. I mean, I'm reminded of

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Speaker 1: this a lot when I watch my kids in sports

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Speaker 1: and you see them, you know, you see them shooting

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Speaker 1: baskets in the in the you know, driveway, and they're

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Speaker 1: pretty confident and they're pretty cocky. And then they actually

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Speaker 1: get in a game, which doesn't matter at all because

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Speaker 1: it's like seventh grade girls basketball, right, nobody gives a

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Speaker 1: shit but them. Listen to this, right right, But you see,

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Speaker 1: you see just this atrophy and performance, and I think

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Speaker 1: about it with myself all the time, I have missed

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Speaker 1: a lot of big bucks that I could have hit.

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Speaker 1: I could have hit them with a rock in some situations.

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Speaker 1: Pretty capable with a bow when you put me on

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Speaker 1: the range, But every once in a while, you put

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Speaker 1: me in the woods and I will whiff with the

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Speaker 1: best of them. And that first season with those dogs

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Speaker 1: is like you're going to see that play out a lot.

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Speaker 2: You just tell her every duck that they get during

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Speaker 2: their first hunt, hunting season is life experience. So all

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Speaker 2: training season we're building those life experiences little by little

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Speaker 2: to prepare them right. But then that whole first season,

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Speaker 2: you've got to look at it like your taking a

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Speaker 2: seventh grader and showing them the ropes every little duck

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Speaker 2: that every duck that they pick up, they're going to go, ah,

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Speaker 2: this one landed outside of the decoys. This one landed

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Speaker 2: in the decoys. And I didn't break, or I did

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Speaker 2: break and I got brought back and made to sit still.

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Speaker 2: I learned from that. Or the crippled goose that sails

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Speaker 2: over the cornfield and goes two hundred yards away, and

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Speaker 2: maybe you walk that dog halfway and lock them in

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Speaker 2: on it and convince them that they're right, those things

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Speaker 2: are huge, or or maybe they just struggle to pick

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Speaker 2: up the dang goose right. I mean, I've been around

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Speaker 2: guys that are yelling at them that I just go

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Speaker 2: get the goose and play with it and let them

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Speaker 2: figure it out.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you're out there and you're yelling, you've

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Speaker 1: lost the plot, buddy. Yeah, and it's I mean, everybody

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Speaker 1: does it right, and it's it's you know, a lesson

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Speaker 1: for us is the more people you hunt with, the

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Speaker 1: higher likelihood your ego is going to step in and

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Speaker 1: you're gonna get you're gonna feel ashamed of your dog,

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Speaker 1: and then you're gonna yell. I mean, it's one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons like I preach solo hunts a lot. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know it's a little different thing with the duck world,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't doesn't necessarily have to be, especially with

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Speaker 1: a young dog, But in the upland world, I'm like, man,

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Speaker 1: if you want that dog to relax and work through

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Speaker 1: these problems of where the rooster went or where the

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Speaker 1: grouse went, there's nothing better than having no one else

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Speaker 1: to think about and just going I'm gonna let this

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Speaker 1: dog work that spot where that bird went. Down until

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Speaker 1: it happens. And sometimes you know how it is, like

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Speaker 1: sometimes it's like ten fifteen minutes and you're watching them

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Speaker 1: and they keep going back to one clump of grass

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Speaker 1: and you know, kind of paw a little bit and

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Speaker 1: run around, and then you're like get them, and you

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Speaker 1: can see them start to solve that problem. But when

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Speaker 1: you have other people walking in there and everybody's getting

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Speaker 1: impatient and the other dogs are coming in now, all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden you think that your dog is not

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Speaker 1: good at recovering wounded birds. And it's like, man, you

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Speaker 1: just didn't facilitate an opportunity for that to play out

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Speaker 1: where it learned. Start to finish on what that particular

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Speaker 1: bird did, because will that lesson will never go away?

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Speaker 2: That's right, I think you just hit the point inadvertently too.

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Speaker 2: Don't hunt it with other dogs, right, you know that

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Speaker 2: other dog coming and stealing the bird from them, that

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Speaker 2: can for a softer dog, a softer personality dog that

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Speaker 2: can crush them, you know, where they felt good about themselves.

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Speaker 2: And then bam, the big boulder dog comes and steals

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Speaker 2: it or or rams into them or whatever the case

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Speaker 2: may be. And all of a sudden, that more timid

365
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Speaker 2: animal just goes this wasn't fun. I don't know what

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Speaker 2: just happened. And it's all about building. I'm all about

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Speaker 2: giving a dog a correction when it's needed and when

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Speaker 2: we're training, and there's this and that. But I'm also

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Speaker 2: their biggest advocate and coach and team player and making

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Speaker 2: sure that they have positive experiences to gain from it.

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Speaker 2: You know, if they break, that's going to probably be

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Speaker 2: a negative experience. But then as soon as they get

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Speaker 2: back on that platform, I'm patting them on the back. Hey,

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Speaker 2: good's it good? So down good? You know, you've got

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Speaker 2: to be a team player, and you got to be

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Speaker 2: a coach, not a dictator.

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Speaker 1: Well that that point you made there with the two

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Speaker 1: dog thing or the multiple dog thing. Man, if there's

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Speaker 1: one thing we've kind of gotten wrong as dog people,

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Speaker 1: like in the bird dog world, it's that idea that

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Speaker 1: the old dog's going to train the young one or

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Speaker 1: the seasoned dog's going to train the pup. And it's like, man,

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Speaker 1: that's almost always a nut neg to have that other

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Speaker 1: dog there. You know, if you want to development. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't say always, but I would say a lot.

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Speaker 2: I would say a lot. Let's go eighty twenty because

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Speaker 2: it could now. I think when you came on my show,

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Speaker 2: we talked about this with my dad's dog and my

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Speaker 2: old dog. My old dog was a pheasant finding fool.

390
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Speaker 2: He was a maniac. So he'd go in the briers,

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Speaker 2: he'd go in the thick, nasty, he'd go in those

392
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Speaker 2: cattawls lows and just root them out and be all

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Speaker 2: bloodied up and bat of the bone. Well, my dog,

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Speaker 2: my dad's dog, learned that if I stayed out of

395
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Speaker 2: all that stuff, one would come flying out, and he

396
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 2: would be rewarded by not doing the hard work and

397
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Speaker 2: getting in there and finding him. And so for a while,

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Speaker 2: it took several years for him to become emboldened to

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Speaker 2: go and do that because we always hunted him together.

400
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Speaker 2: And so I think that there's some benefit to having

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Speaker 2: that older dog get that range out of the younger dog,

402
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Speaker 2: or put that younger dog in positions to find birds,

403
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Speaker 2: and you know they get some positive But as soon

404
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,239
Speaker 2: as you see little light bulbs going off on that

405
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Speaker 2: young dog, pull the old dog away and just hunt

406
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Speaker 2: that young one and let them gain all those experiences themselves. Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about this on your show with my

408
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Speaker 1: old dog and my young dog too, because when I

409
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Speaker 1: first started hunting Sadie her first season, I think Luna

410
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Speaker 1: was a so Luna was, you know, aging out just

411
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Speaker 1: a little bit, but like really rock solid, especially when

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Speaker 1: you talk about recovering wounded birds, and she would recover

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Speaker 1: most of them. And it never clicked in my head

414
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Speaker 1: that Sadie could kind of had learned to just like

415
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Speaker 1: I don't need to do that, like the other dog

416
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Speaker 1: will find them, until I only had the young dog,

417
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Speaker 1: and then I was like, man, there's a big hole

418
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Speaker 1: in her game there that I didn't see because I

419
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Speaker 1: was just blinded by the hunt, you know. And so

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Speaker 1: it it's just like a it's like a situation where

421
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Speaker 1: we kind of take it for granted. We're like, oh, well,

422
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Speaker 1: it's always good to have that old dog there, and

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Speaker 1: it's like, man, lots of times it's not, you know.

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Speaker 1: But on the other side, like you said, there are

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Speaker 1: some positives, right, Like I noticed when I started out

426
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Speaker 1: Sadie and I had Luna there just the sheer amount

427
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Speaker 1: of flushes we were going to get because of the

428
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Speaker 1: old dog. There's like a benefit there, you know, like

429
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Speaker 1: the bird contact and like it can go both ways,

430
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Speaker 1: but you have to be really careful again, like what

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Speaker 1: are you conditioning both dogs for? Because you're seeing you're

432
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 1: kind of blinded by the performance of having two dogs,

433
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: which is nice, like it's fun to have two dogs

434
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,239
Speaker 1: working and two dogs looking for wounded birds, but there

435
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: might be something happening there that will will come back

436
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:37,880
Speaker 1: around and bite you in the ass eventually.

437
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, Let's can we take like a double back

438
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 2: on that conversation of the glass ceiling and giving people

439
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 2: tools to maybe follow in essence, like a quick program

440
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 2: of what I'm doing with that dog so that they

441
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 2: can think outside of the box with themselves and their dog.

442
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 2: So when I get a puppy myself, you know, we

443
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,719
Speaker 2: raise it, right, a lot of positive experiences, a lot

444
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 2: of treat training, a little bit of just a couple

445
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 2: retrieves a day, building retrieve drive. We're teaching them to

446
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,640
Speaker 2: look out via bird boy marks, jumping on a dog

447
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 2: stand and staying there for two seconds, right, and you're

448
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 2: just building a dog that's learning how to learn and

449
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 2: having fun learning and building marking ability and getting them

450
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 2: swim in and blah blah bay when I get them either,

451
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 2: you know, client dogs that are six months old. We're

452
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 2: going to go through a very formal obedience program. Everything

453
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 2: is going to be on leash. We're still going to

454
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 2: use treats. Once I know that they understand what is

455
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 2: being asked. Sit, heal here, it's all good stuff. On lead,

456
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 2: I'll collar condition the dog and collar conditioning, you know

457
00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: Layman's terms is shock collar. But if it's taught properly

458
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 2: and overlaid with commands that they already know, then the

459
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,479
Speaker 2: dogs are understanding. Like if you snatch the lead and

460
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 2: pop the lead to make a leash correction, they understand

461
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 2: the e collar is the same thing. It's an invisible leash.

462
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 2: So when I say sit and I lift up on

463
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 2: the leash and their butt hits the ground, the leash relaxes.

464
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 2: The same idea with the collar. Right, collar's turned on,

465
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 2: but hits the ground, Collar's turned off. Good dog. So

466
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to go through very formal obedience and teach

467
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 2: that over the course of maybe two weeks, maybe the

468
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 2: average person who can do a little make it four weeks. Right.

469
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 2: I also force fetch my dogs. I don't think you

470
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,199
Speaker 2: have to. It's just a great tool. It teaches the

471
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 2: dog how to learn how to comprehend something uncomfortable, how

472
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 2: to turn the pressure off and succeed. And what that

473
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 2: ends up being is delivering to hand nicely, so going

474
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 2: and getting something, bringing it back to me, sitting down,

475
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 2: not chopping it, not spitting it out at my feet,

476
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 2: not dropping it, come out of the water, et cetera.

477
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 2: And it also leads the groundwork for like blind retrieves.

478
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this on force fetch, because people

479
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: ask about this a lot, right, and you said, not

480
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: every dog needs this, Like in your experience, what percentage

481
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: of dogs do you see that You're like, what percentage

482
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: are you like, yep, they absolutely need this or what

483
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: percentage you see that.

484
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 2: Don't all of them?

485
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: All of them?

486
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I say you don't have to do it because,

487
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 2: like you, we kind of talk about what are your

488
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 2: goals for the dog. If you are totally okay with

489
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 2: them dropping the bird at your feet and totally okay

490
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 2: with them shaking off at the bank and dropping it

491
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 2: and then picking up and bringing it back, and that

492
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: is your seeing, like that's what your goal is for

493
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 2: your dog is just to go and get a duck

494
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 2: and bring it back. Then I think you're fine. I

495
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 2: think when you really start thinking about it. What if

496
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: we had a what's your if you could kill one

497
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 2: bird this duck season, what would it be? What's your

498
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 2: bucket list?

499
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: Duck man? I'm a terrible duck hunter, so every greenhead

500
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: I kill is awesome. Yeah, I don't have I like

501
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 1: mallards because I live off a teal in wood ducks.

502
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 2: Mostly I love mallards too. So you get this perfect layup,

503
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 2: he's cupped up, he's coming in. You make a killer shot,

504
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: dog makes a beautiful retrieve. He drops it at the shoreline,

505
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 2: and it cripples and is swimming up and gets under

506
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 2: a log, and now you're doing a ten minute try

507
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: and find in ITBs run around game. Literally why they

508
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 2: call it a wild goose chase? Right right? What the

509
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 2: heck man? Just if he had just held it, you'd

510
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 2: have had that green head that had the band on it.

511
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 2: I mean, you name it, it could happen. So I force

512
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 2: fatch every single dog it comes through the program because

513
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 2: it gives me tools to teach the dog you don't have.

514
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 2: You know, it's got a lot of negative connotations out there.

515
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 2: There's a lot of other styles of training, right, The

516
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 2: British style of training where they do a hold, But

517
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 2: I would be the guy that would argue, they're still

518
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: forcing the dog to hold it right, So you're just

519
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 2: it's different, but you're still every time the dog drops it,

520
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 2: you're putting it back in their mouth, popping them under

521
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 2: the jaw.

522
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:07,959
Speaker 1: Hold hold, hold.

523
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 2: So I do think that there are some dogs that

524
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 2: have a little more natural delivery to hand, but when

525
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 2: the going gets tough, that training is going to drop

526
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 2: down a little bit. So you got that crippled rooster

527
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 2: whose wings are beaten like crazy and their legs are kicking, right,

528
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 2: you know what I'm talking about. That dog is going

529
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 2: to drop it twenty times on the way back to you.

530
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,479
Speaker 2: I'll bet one hundred dollars, and they're going to regrip

531
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: and regrip and regrip and regrip because it's flapping. If

532
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: we have a properly force fetched dog, that stuff doesn't

533
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 2: happen and it's just cleaner. So my answer is all

534
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 2: of them go through the force Vetch program. They're all

535
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 2: better for it. They learn how to learn. The end

536
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 2: result is they delivered a hand, but they're learning how

537
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 2: to learn, how to comply, how to work hard, how

538
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 2: to succeed, how to do something that's stressful and difficult

539
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 2: at times, and then they come out the other end emboldened.

540
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 2: I can do this. You know. I was a little

541
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 2: weird about this at first, but three days later I've

542
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,959
Speaker 2: got it. Light bulbs are clicking and they're learning how

543
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 2: to learn. So that's why a forcevetch. So once I

544
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 2: go through my collar conditioning forcetvetch, they're still getting marks

545
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 2: in the field and in the water. So I'm teaching

546
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 2: them how to mark. I'm teaching them decoys and all

547
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: the good stuff, and we're starting some gunfire introduction and

548
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 2: dead birds and live birds. And if they drop it,

549
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 2: who cares. They're not done with force ftch. But I've

550
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 2: got this process and a foundation that's solid. And I

551
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 2: think a lot of folks have a dog that's pretty obedient,

552
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 2: but not really when the going gets tough, right, other

553
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 2: dogs around rooster flies away, you know, grouse flushes, and

554
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 2: that dog's over the hill and through the woods and

555
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 2: grandmother's house they go. So, you know, having a good recall,

556
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 2: having at especially duck hunting a strong sit. So when

557
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: me and you are in the duck blind, that dog's

558
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 2: not breaking on our shot and we can't shoot a

559
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 2: cripple or whatever. They need to be steady. So having

560
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 2: that really strong foundation is imperative and that'll help make

561
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 2: life easier. If you do the little things great, the

562
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 2: big things are easier to do.

563
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: And you're so, just to reiterate, you're talking about the

564
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: dogs that come in that are six months old, right,

565
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: and you're talking about you're you're talking about doing a

566
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 1: lot with these dogs, right, Like I mean, you're assessing

567
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: them for their what do they know? What do they

568
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: need to learn? Of the basics, so you know, you

569
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: can go to the collar and you're not dealing with

570
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: false positives and you can go to the force fetch

571
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: and you're talking gunfire intro and live bird intro. How

572
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: long do you have your hands on these dogs?

573
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 2: So my gun dog program is four months long? Okay,

574
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: So they stay with me for four months and they're

575
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 2: getting work five to six days a week and they're

576
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: getting like we said earlier, two to four sessions a day.

577
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 2: And you're right, it's drinking from a fire hose for them.

578
00:28:55,000 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: What So you get these different dogs in, right, they're

579
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: six months old, they're ready for this level that you're

580
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: going to put them through. And you're putting them through

581
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: a lot, but they're like people are going to listen

582
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: to this and be like that's so much, but it's

583
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: not like that's the window to do that, Like that's

584
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: the window they learn and they're starting to mature enough

585
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: to handle these things. What do people do wrong that

586
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: they should do? So when those dogs get there, they're

587
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: just easier for you to just level them up through

588
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: all these different layers.

589
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 2: I think the big one is being confident. That's a

590
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: big one. And you can't blame folks who work forty

591
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 2: fifty sixty hours a week, have kids in soccer and basketball,

592
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: and you know, family parties and things like that, but

593
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 2: they're always on a leash because they don't listen. That's

594
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: part of why I have a job. So they're always

595
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 2: on a leash. And they probably have a fenced in

596
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 2: backyard and so the dog knows it's fence in the backyard,

597
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 2: it knows it's living room, but it hasn't gone and done.

598
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: Take it on hikes, Let it be a puppy and

599
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 2: jump through a stream and clamor over a log and

600
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 2: run through brush and fall and trip and have fun.

601
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 2: You don't it doesn't have to be perfect. I don't care.

602
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: I've got a treat full of or a pocket full

603
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 2: of treats, and when he comes towards me, I'll I'll

604
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,479
Speaker 2: get him to come to me and I'll pop them

605
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 2: some treats. But I want that dog that's super emboldened,

606
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 2: that can you know, almost strut man, just feels good

607
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 2: about themselves. Swimming there's a great way to do it,

608
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of wrong ways. The great way

609
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: to do it is wait till the water's nice and warm.

610
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 2: You go to a shallow entry place, not a sharp

611
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:43,239
Speaker 2: drop off, not waves, not a river. Those are like

612
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 2: my no nose. Put your waiters on, or maybe your

613
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: swim trunks, and go up to your knees, and that

614
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: dog will follow you. You have a relationship with him.

615
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 2: He loves you beyond belief. He's going to follow. If

616
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: he doesn't follow, I'm going to you know, I'm using

617
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 2: my bumper to tease him and coax him and just

618
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 2: give in, and he'll start moving in. And then you

619
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 2: give them a little bit more and he'll start moving

620
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 2: in a little further. He'll come and he'll or she

621
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 2: will follow you in and follow that bumper and then

622
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 2: I stay in between the dog and the shore the

623
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 2: first place if they do swim, the first place they

624
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 2: want to high tell it to his land. I want

625
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 2: him to be cool about swimming. So I'll maneuver in

626
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: between them and the shoreline and then you know, coach

627
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 2: them into me grab that bumper and flip it back

628
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 2: out so they just spin around and head back out.

629
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 2: And so you're just keeping them in a couple two

630
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 2: three reps and then let them get out. But if

631
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: the first thing they're thinking of is land, land land, land,

632
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 2: land land, let them get out. I gotta get out.

633
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 2: I gotta get out. You know, they go into like

634
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:40,959
Speaker 2: a panic mode to get out. But if you can

635
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: kind of just keep them in the zone of just

636
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 2: playing with them, they'll they'll water, will be positive. But

637
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: don't ever throw them in. Don't do the old school

638
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: take them on a canoe and paddle to an island

639
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 2: and says you'll swim when you want to come back.

640
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't do that.

641
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 2: I don't do that. I've heard it.

642
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: So when you I just want to back up a second.

643
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: So when you talk about these six month old dogs

644
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: that come into your program and the biggest issue across

645
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: the board is just confidence. Do you think that a

646
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: lot of the people who have those puppies, because I

647
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: would assume that when they get that puppy, they know

648
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: they're coming to you. A lot of them know they're

649
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: coming to you at six months old.

650
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah right, I would say again eighty twenty. Some people, Okay,

651
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 2: I can't handle it. I thought I had time for it.

652
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm doing right.

653
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: Yes, some people just figure out they're just not cut

654
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: out for it and they got to find a pro right.

655
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: But a lot of people know, I'm getting this dog,

656
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: and I'm not confident enough to take my dog through

657
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: gunfire intro and right on down the line. So I'm

658
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: going to bob whatever. But do you think that that's

659
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: part of the problem with the confidence thing that people go,

660
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: I don't want to do anything to screw this dog

661
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: up before he gets his hands on it, and he's

662
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: going to mold this dog into this perfect thing, like

663
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: I think. I think one of the things that I

664
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: see so much with people's relationship to professional trainers is

665
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: they don't see it as a it's sort of like

666
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: an invisible partnership, you know, like if you don't do

667
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: what you're supposed to do with your dog. The pro

668
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: can go pretty far with it. But you know, on

669
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: the front end, on the back end, if you don't

670
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: keep that up all that a lot of that stuff

671
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: washes away. So do you see like a is a

672
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: part of that. Just people are like, I'm just I

673
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: don't want to mess this up, So I'm going to

674
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,719
Speaker 1: just play with my dog in the backyard. I'm not

675
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: taking them to new environments.

676
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I think that there. You do hear that

677
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 2: a lot. It's like, oh, he looks good. I just

678
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 2: didn't want to ruin him for you. It's like, it's

679
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 2: kind of hard to ruin a dog. They're pretty multible,

680
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: they're prettyly pliable, and they bounce back quickly in most

681
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,719
Speaker 2: circumstances as long as you don't coddle them. And you know,

682
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: I guess I can digress on that if you want

683
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 2: me to. But if if every time they get nervous,

684
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 2: you're like, oh baby, it's okay, it's okay. What are

685
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 2: you doing. You're patinum and you're at the he's fearful

686
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 2: or nervous and you're just patting them and praising him.

687
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 2: So don't do that. Just if he gets nervous or something,

688
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 2: roll on, ignore it. So would want to do it?

689
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 2: Make him do it ten or fifteen times until he's

690
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 2: not nervous again.

691
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: Right, So what would you recommend? You know, because when

692
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: you when you talk about dogs not being confident coming

693
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: into your program, I mean one of the things that

694
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: I just go back to, like mentally is, you know,

695
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: we preach about socialization a lot, and people are always like, oh, socialization,

696
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: and so my dog is like a nice dog around people,

697
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: and I'm like, man, there's like there's so much more

698
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: to it than that, as far as just building their

699
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,399
Speaker 1: confidence in a variety of different situations with a bunch

700
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: of distractions where they're just like, like you kind of

701
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 1: said that strutting dog, has that been there, done that?

702
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: Mentality that's a huge component of socialization and just those

703
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: early months of like train them here, work with them there,

704
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 1: walk them here, like you know, let them play in

705
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: this little bit taller grass, like just let them let

706
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: them just figure this stuff out.

707
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that there's like a real

708
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: art to it. Right. It's it's not a plus b

709
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 2: equal see there is. I kind of talked about my

710
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 2: foundation and how I go step by step so that

711
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 2: I'm not jumping ahead or having to go backwards to

712
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 2: fix things. But I think that there is this like

713
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 2: feel to when the dog is ready to go to

714
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 2: move on. There's a feel for how the dog is

715
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 2: feeling in this moment, and I think, you know, you

716
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 2: hit the now on the head, like, yeah, it should

717
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 2: like to meet new people, but it should also feel

718
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 2: comfortable to wander off and go sniff the grass. And

719
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 2: you should feel comfortable that it can go further than

720
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 2: ten feet from you and it's going to be okay.

721
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 2: So put the dog in situations. Take it to the

722
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: soccer game, take it to you know, the family party

723
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 2: where there's kids poking and brought in it. You know,

724
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 2: get it out and let it be a dog. Let

725
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 2: it be a puppy. It's going to have a job

726
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: if you will, for the rest of its life. And

727
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 2: let it be a dog. Let it go wander off.

728
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,280
Speaker 2: And you got to call it twenty times. That doesn't

729
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: bother me as much as the dog that you know,

730
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 2: you move quick and it shoots to the end of

731
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 2: the leash because it's spooked.

732
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: Right, you can rein it in.

733
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, you canen it in. Then have to pump it

734
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: up all the time.

735
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, you know, this is gonna be a

736
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: sort of a weird message to give, especially with what

737
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: you've kind of mentioned about coddling dogs and stuff. My

738
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 1: dogs are. They go everywhere with me that dogs can go. Typically,

739
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: you know, we go to Cabela's to buy some swim

740
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: baits to fish with or something they go with. You know,

741
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: like the more that you just include that dog in

742
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: your life as like a as like a partner, right,

743
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: not like that baby that you're like, like you said, coddling,

744
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: but actually as like a part where you're gonna go

745
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 1: walk here, or go scout deer there, or do whatever

746
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: like that stuff. I feel like it's just it's just

747
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: so it's so good for them on so many different levels.

748
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: And it's good for us too, because we get to

749
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 1: start to learn to read our dog and see, you know, like,

750
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: is he really hard to call back, like recall in

751
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: this situation? Okay, Well that's gonna be something you got

752
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: to work on. And I think that I think that

753
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: people get scared, you know, including a dog that way

754
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: in a lot of parts of their life, but throughout

755
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: the rest of their life. That's an important thing, you know,

756
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: like and of course you have to be careful, like

757
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know. Have you ever been to

758
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: the game fare out here? I can't remember if we

759
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: talked about that before, Yeah, a couple of years ago. Yeah,

760
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: so you you know, for the people listening, the game

761
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: Fair is this two long weekends here in the northern

762
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,720
Speaker 1: suburbs of the Twin Cities. It's all about bird dogs.

763
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: It is a chaotic situation. I mean, it's like fifty

764
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: thousand what's that got where i'd take a puppy, right,

765
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: That's where I'm going. So it is a bird dog

766
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: friendly show. It's an outdoor show. Tons of booths, you know,

767
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:55,280
Speaker 1: fair food, all kinds of different kinds of like events.

768
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 1: You can run your dog through, doc jumping and long

769
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: distance retrieves and time things and it's really neat. But

770
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: there's a lot of clay page and shooting going on.

771
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people blowing on duck calls that

772
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 1: have no business blowing on duck calls. And it is

773
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: a loud, chaotic environment with literally thousands of dogs going

774
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: through every weekend. And when you think about those dogs,

775
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: you're talking everything from amazingly well behaved dogs that can

776
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: run quadruple blind retrieves at three hundred yards without bat

777
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: and I and a lot of dogs that are on

778
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: the other end of the spectrum. And so we look

779
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: for situations like that because we're like, well, that is

780
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: a dog friendly thing. But then you see people bring

781
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: puppies to it, and there's gunshots going off constantly, and

782
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: that puppy is a foot tall, and there are people

783
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 1: and big dogs everywhere, and it is just such a

784
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: bad environment for a young dog. And so when we're

785
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: talking about this, be a little careful, right, Like if

786
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: you take the dog of the park and it's July fourth, like,

787
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: you know, let's be careful.

788
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: Well, And I mean we met at Sewee. I didn't

789
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 2: have a dog with me. There's other factors too that

790
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 2: I would encourage you to think about, as like how

791
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 2: many of those dogs are carrying some sort of kennel

792
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 2: cough or something weird going on. I mean, they don't

793
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 2: need to be drinking from bulls, they don't need to

794
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 2: go to a dog parks. There's good places to socialize,

795
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 2: and then there's stuff that's a little overwhelming and a

796
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: little too much. Again, the big thing you're thinking about

797
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 2: is how can I make this dog the most successful.

798
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 2: If you think that's not going to be helpful, pull

799
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 2: back if you think it could be helpful, and let's

800
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 2: let's try it for ten or fifteen minutes, you know,

801
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 2: and just be off to the side, and yeah, we

802
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 2: could work that. But yeah, the gunfire stuff is spooky,

803
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 2: the big dogs, the feet, the people, the everybody poking

804
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 2: and prod and it can be overwhelming for certain puppies

805
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 2: that you're hurting not helping right.

806
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: And I mean, if you screw that up in the

807
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: wrong way, we get like gun shyness or something settled in,

808
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: then you've then you've made a big mistake.

809
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 2: You know.

810
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: I've seen I mean this is total tangent here, but

811
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: I've seen people do doc jumping drills with their dog

812
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: at those events, and you know, you watch those dogs

813
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: and some of them leap off and they jump eighteen feet.

814
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: Some of them run up and they hit the brakes

815
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: and fall off, and it's funny. But I've seen situations

816
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: where dogs have run up there and done kind of

817
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: that stutter step thing and sometimes jump off, sometimes not.

818
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: And I've heard people say, well, he's never been in

819
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: the water before. And you're like, man, you know I

820
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: actually saw that one time at the why was swimming lessons.

821
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: I saw a kid jump into the pool to get

822
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 1: his test, to get his wristband, and he went straight

823
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 1: to the bottom and the lifeguard jumped in and pulled

824
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 1: him out, and the mom said, yeah, I didn't know

825
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 1: if you could swim. He's never tried before.

826
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 3: So anyway, that's awesome, right, Parenting bad idea when you

827
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 3: talk about these dogs, so you have a four month program,

828
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 3: they come in at six months, go through all this

829
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 3: different stuff.

830
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: How many of them get to where you're like, yep,

831
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: that I'm I'm good with that progress? Is it all

832
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: of them?

833
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 2: I go ninety eight percent? I mean there's a couple

834
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 2: you just can't get there. Yeah, there's a couple that

835
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 2: just it's not in them. And it's not fair to

836
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 2: the dog to make me make them, and it's not

837
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 2: fair to the owner to pay, you know, the amount

838
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 2: of money that they invest in me and that dog

839
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 2: for at the end of four months to not be satisfied.

840
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: I mean, my name's on the line too, right, So

841
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 2: but I think overall, like I've had some dogs at

842
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 2: month three finally swim and then they crush it. But

843
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 2: the whole time you're being honest with them, like, man,

844
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 2: are you sure you want me to keep going? Right?

845
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: Maybe he's just a tough dog.

846
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 1: Is this in your opinion? Those that two percent, that's

847
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: just kind of the washout Doug, where you're like, I

848
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: just he doesn't have it. Is it just a blood thing?

849
00:41:58,120 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: Is it a bloodline thing?

850
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, sometimes it's breed thing. I don't want to know.

851
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 2: I hate knocking on different breeds because we're all dog

852
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 2: people and everybody loves their dog, and that's what a

853
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 2: good dog. A good dog is a good dog. I

854
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 2: don't care what it looks like and how it walks,

855
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 2: and it doesn't matter to me. But if it there

856
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 2: are some breeds that you're not stacking the deck in

857
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 2: your favor that it's going to help you make your

858
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 2: life easier, let's let's.

859
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 1: Talk about those, because I mean, can't I mean, I honestly,

860
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: this is something I write about a lot where I'm like,

861
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: we look at dog breeds and we go, I like

862
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: the look of that one, or my buddy has this

863
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: wire hair and I love it, so I want that.

864
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: But we don't sit back and go how good of

865
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: a trainer, am I? Like what am I bringing to

866
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 1: the table? You know, people ask me all the time

867
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: like why female labs? Like, I'm not a professional trainer.

868
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: So if I get a lot of really good blood

869
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 1: and a female lab, she's going to be soft, tons

870
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: of retrieving desire and I can work with that, Like

871
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: I need that for myself because it's that's the easiest

872
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 1: kind of dog for me to reward, and you know,

873
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: it just it just works for me. Like I if

874
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: you handed me a chessie, it'd be a different story, right,

875
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: So just like what are the breeds where you're like, man,

876
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 1: this is just a bigger challenge for the average person, right.

877
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 2: So the first one that comes to mind because someone

878
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 2: asked me the other day if I would do it,

879
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 2: and it is a toller a Nova Scotia duck tolling

880
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 2: retriever and retriever's in the name. But they for you know,

881
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: years and years and years and years and years, they've

882
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 2: been bred for show, not hunting, and even hunting, they

883
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 2: were more they were literally a toll them tolling is

884
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 2: running up and down the bank, playing flashing their tail. Yeah,

885
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 2: and that duck would get curious and come in for

886
00:43:55,520 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 2: them to shoot. That's not doing. You know icy rivers

887
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 2: of Central New York, you know one hundred yard retrieves.

888
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 2: That that one is tough. So I've trained a few

889
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 2: of them in my past and one of them turned

890
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 2: out good and the others turned out fine. You know,

891
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 2: could do it, but it wasn't fun for the dog

892
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 2: and it wasn't fun for me. And it's just it's tough.

893
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 2: So again we're stacking the deck in our.

894
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 1: Favor, so you don't have to worry about that. I

895
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: had that. I did an article on tolling and novascoes

896
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: to duck tollers one time, and they came after me too,

897
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 1: But it was like, you just have you just have

898
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,760
Speaker 1: to recognize, like there's a reason they're not very popular.

899
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: And it's not to say that that can't be a

900
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 1: badass dog for you. You're the average dog trainer or

901
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: the average dog owner and you're like, I need a dog.

902
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: It's going to retrieve some ducks and kick up a rooster. Yeah.

903
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 2: I think it's also about being honest with yourself. If

904
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 2: you hunt forty days a year and that's probably not

905
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 2: the dog. If you hunt two or three and it's

906
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 2: a little wood duck hole where they've got to do

907
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 2: thirty yard swims and relatively warm water probably be fine.

908
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,439
Speaker 2: But if you're the guy or gale that goes out

909
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 2: on Lake Michigan and is hunting diver ducks and it's

910
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,879
Speaker 2: twelve degrees out, that is the wrong dog for you.

911
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: And I think I'm going to go back to like

912
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 2: a German short hair, a German wire hair drop. Some

913
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 2: of those breeds or some of those individuals in those

914
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 2: breeds are great duck dogs, but they may not point

915
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 2: as well. Or if they're great pointing dogs and they

916
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 2: don't really retrieve it as well or have much desire

917
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 2: for swimming at all, those are really difficult to get

918
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 2: to love it because innately they were bred to do

919
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 2: the other thing. So if you want one like that,

920
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 2: if you want to be different, you got to do

921
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 2: your research ten times more because there are breeders who

922
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 2: might specify and really choose a real ducky watery drop

923
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 2: verse a pointing draft. So again you look at yourself, Hey,

924
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,280
Speaker 2: I hunt forty days a year and I'm hunting divers,

925
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 2: and it's probably still gonna be A short hair is

926
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 2: not gonna do well in January in Lake Michigan. There's

927
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 2: probably one or two or five that are going to

928
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 2: listen to the show and send us a picture saying,

929
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 2: my dog does it, but I'll show you five hundred

930
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 2: that didn't.

931
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: Right well, And that's I mean, that's a really good

932
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: point there too, because the popularity thing goes both ways. Right,

933
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: If you look at the tollers, they're not they're not

934
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: that popular out there. They're just not. And there's reasons,

935
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: right whatever, Uh, wear hairs and drafts have gotten pretty

936
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: popular in the last you know, ten years, and so yeah,

937
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: you can you can go find those dogs that are

938
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: be they're used in duck blinds like crazy, and they

939
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: perform awesome, and they can be such badass dogs, Like

940
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: they can be such badass dogs.

941
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 2: But several that were awesome.

942
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, they they really can't. But if you're like I'm

943
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 1: a hardcore duck guy and this is what I want,

944
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: Like is that the best choice? You know, Like if

945
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,280
Speaker 1: you're a dual purpose upland waterfall, like there's a different

946
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: case to be made. And so it's again, like you said,

947
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: it's just like we got to be real honest at

948
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: this point, Like what's the best.

949
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 2: Choice yeah, and I said it a few times. You're

950
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 2: stacking the deck in your favor. So if you've already

951
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 2: gotten a dog, that's your dog. But if you're listening

952
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 2: to this podcast going boy this spring this summer, I'm

953
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 2: thinking of adding one to my family. You need to

954
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 2: look at the different breeds. You need to look at

955
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 2: how you hunt. You need to look at how much

956
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 2: time and energy you can put into a dog, because

957
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 2: maybe a German short hair isn't the right one because

958
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 2: they they do need a lot more energy where most

959
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,800
Speaker 2: labs they've got a better on off switch. I would

960
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 2: say most, not all. So you're looking at how much

961
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 2: you haunt, what your family lifestyle is, how much you

962
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:58,879
Speaker 2: want to train, how much you want to put into

963
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 2: the dog. And then we're stacking the deck in our

964
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 2: favor by choosing a good breeder that is responsible, reliable,

965
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 2: does all the health testing has like the parents have.

966
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 2: I compete with my dogs. Getting that little dinky ninety

967
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 2: cent ribbon is proof that my dogs are smart team players,

968
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 2: work hard, can mark and can can can do it.

969
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 2: And so you know, just going down the road to

970
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 2: the guy who has a pure bread lab, to bread

971
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 2: to a pure bread lab, and boy, they hunt and

972
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 2: you hunt forty days a year on Lake Michigan. Well

973
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 2: what does it hunt? How to? You know? Has he

974
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 2: had to throw twenty rocks to get it to go swim?

975
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, but he hunts?

976
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 1: Well, that's I mean, that's a really common mistake that

977
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: a lot of people make. Is like it's purebread, so

978
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: it's good enough, and it's it's this breed, so it'll hunt,

979
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: But like, how will it hunt? Like all of them,

980
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: all of them will probably go pick up a dead bird,

981
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: you know, like most of them, and you know they'll

982
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: they'll do parts of it, but really it's like, what

983
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,760
Speaker 1: are you going to be working with in that dog?

984
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: And that's that's the thing about you know, Like one

985
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: of the reasons I wanted to talk to you is

986
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: because the ceiling for these dogs. You know, every individual

987
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 1: dog has its top level, right, But what you're talking

988
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:24,959
Speaker 1: about is start with a dog where the top level

989
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 1: is going to be pretty freaking high, right, Give yourself

990
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: that to work with first. Even if you maybe personally

991
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,879
Speaker 1: can't get there with that dog, at least it's there.

992
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 2: It's going to make your life a lot easier and

993
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,240
Speaker 2: more enjoyable and you'll be problem solving a lot less.

994
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: And the cheapest part about owning a dog is buying

995
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 2: the dog. So if your budget is a thousand bucks,

996
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 2: we can probably find you a decent one. If your

997
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 2: budget's four hundred, save your money and wait for a thousand.

998
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 2: And realistically, most puppies that are well bred and have

999
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 2: all the health testing done and have competed and whatnot,

1000
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 2: you're in the fifteen to twenty five hundred range.

1001
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 1: Right when you when you talk about this too, I mean,

1002
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: I think there's a really good point there. When you

1003
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: get good blood, you know, you you have those things

1004
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: you want, right like you have the drive, you have

1005
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: the intelligence, you're going to get a problem solver, you know,

1006
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:19,240
Speaker 1: health the whole thing, but that the relationship with that dog.

1007
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: You know, you want easier training, Like you want a

1008
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: dog that shows up to work, and you want a

1009
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 1: dog that will like be fun to train, and we

1010
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: don't we don't really talk about that a lot. But

1011
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: when you get your hands on one that has really

1012
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 1: good blood, it's just you're gonna train it more like

1013
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 1: it's kind of a like a it's like a snowball

1014
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: effect where you're like, man, I enjoy working with this dog,

1015
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,720
Speaker 1: because this dog is leveling up fast, and it shows

1016
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: up and it looks me in the eyes and it's like,

1017
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 1: what are we doing today? That's so much of a

1018
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 1: different experience than getting one that will retrieve, you know,

1019
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 1: six seven times and then it's going to go off

1020
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: and lay down, Like there's a there's a component of

1021
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: that that not only is that a better hunting dog

1022
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 1: or it will be just general, but also your overall

1023
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: experience of just working with that dog is going to

1024
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: be so much more enjoyable.

1025
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, I don't think

1026
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 2: we have to beat the dead horse on it, but

1027
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 2: I just think when you really you're stacking the deck

1028
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 2: in your favor by doing your research and finding the

1029
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 2: right breed and the right breeder to bring this family

1030
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,399
Speaker 2: member into your home. If you're lucky, that dog's gonna

1031
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 2: live twelve to fourteen years and if you really hunt

1032
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 2: and you really want to hunt, you're going to and

1033
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 2: it doesn't you're gonna now still own it for twelve

1034
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 2: or fourteen years. So let's do it right the first time.

1035
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 1: Right, So when we're talking about, you know, how high

1036
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: up a dog can go, like what level they can achieve.

1037
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: What's the best dog you ever got your hands on? Like,

1038
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: what's the one where you were like, oh my god,

1039
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: Like this one is just the most special.

1040
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good question. I have a handful and

1041
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 2: for different reasons. First dog, because he's your first and

1042
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 2: we you know, I was probably twenty two twenty three.

1043
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 2: He'd go, we'd go back to college together and have

1044
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 2: a time of our lives. We hunted a ton, We

1045
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 2: trained a ton. He taught me a ton. He taught

1046
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,760
Speaker 2: me a lot about being more patient. Remember we talked about,

1047
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,919
Speaker 2: you know, not being that guy that dog got the

1048
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 2: worst end of the deal sometimes, and but it taught

1049
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 2: me not to be that guy and not to be

1050
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 2: that guy that hunts with you. Right. But he was

1051
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 2: a pheasant finding fool. I would send him on retrieves

1052
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 2: that I wouldn't send a dog on. Now, you know

1053
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 2: ice flow rivers of Central New York and it's one

1054
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty yards across and that we kind of

1055
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 2: don't know where the duck is. And I'd make that

1056
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 2: sucker swim across that thing, and he'd hunt the shoreline

1057
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 2: and sure enough he'd come back with the wood duck

1058
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 2: or black duck, or you'd shoot up hooded merganza and

1059
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 2: it starts cruising downstreams, you know, down the river, and

1060
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 2: he'd be gone for ten or fifteen minutes and you're

1061
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 2: like freezing cold here he comes back with a hoodie.

1062
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 2: I'd be like, let's either get the boat or we

1063
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,399
Speaker 2: let that one send, because that's not safe. I mean,

1064
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 2: if they're crippled, they're going downstream and it's January, not safe.

1065
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 2: And I've learned from that too, But he never quit.

1066
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 2: I had a Chesapeake that was a client that I

1067
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 2: I raised for him. He's a college buddy of mine.

1068
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,280
Speaker 2: Ended up having kids and just you know, I can't

1069
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 2: do the puppy deal. Tried to. I got it at

1070
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 2: three months old, and she was not the highest drive dog.

1071
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 2: Some days you'd open up her dog box and she'd

1072
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:42,919
Speaker 2: like wake up and be like really, dude, and you'd

1073
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:44,800
Speaker 2: close and be like all right tomorrow, and then tomorrow

1074
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 2: you'd open up. She'd be like I'm ready. And I

1075
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 2: loved her. We passed the Master National twice with her.

1076
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 2: One of the years I think there was only a

1077
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 2: hint like maybe four or five female chessies that passed.

1078
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 2: She just had a lot of heart and a lot

1079
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 2: of like heart for me. And the going got tough,

1080
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 2: she would go and do it and you'd kind of

1081
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 2: look at her like, I don't know, she kind of

1082
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 2: looks like she wants to be lazy today, but she

1083
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 2: just would. She would give you her all in her

1084
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 2: own way. She was real special. The probably highest title

1085
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,240
Speaker 2: dog I have trained. Her name is Lizzie to another client,

1086
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 2: dog very soft, very well composed, and then lives for

1087
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 2: it one hundred miles an hour. But she doesn't. She's

1088
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 2: not like jittery or anything crazy. It's very well like

1089
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 2: in her brain. She's just composed, but as giving you

1090
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 2: one hundred and ten percent every time she's she got

1091
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 2: qualified all Age QA two she passed her. She's only

1092
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 2: ran one Master National and passed it. And every day

1093
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 2: she shows up to work and gives you everything she's

1094
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 2: got and does it well.

1095
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: So the last two dogs you've talked about, that dog

1096
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: and that female Chessie, you've kind of said it without

1097
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:05,760
Speaker 1: saying it that you could ask a lot of those

1098
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:10,240
Speaker 1: dogs and they would just deliver. Yeah, that's so cool.

1099
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,759
Speaker 2: It's so cool. And some of the things that we do,

1100
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 2: we kind of talked about it in the beginning of

1101
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 2: just hand throwing in your backyard. If these dogs only

1102
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 2: had that, they never would have accomplished what they've accomplished.

1103
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 2: They've done some amazing things and amazing retrieves and competitions

1104
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 2: are fun, man like for anybody who's listening to this

1105
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 2: it's never been to one with their dog, go and

1106
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:41,400
Speaker 2: watch and then think about signing up. Because hunting season

1107
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 2: is sixty days long hunt tests, you could go and

1108
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 2: make new friends and be around buddies and have a

1109
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 2: little lunch on your tailgate and take your dog and

1110
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 2: have a nice Saturday with you and the family at

1111
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 2: a hunt tasting. It's not for everybody. They are ninety

1112
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 2: cent ribbons in the grand scheme of life, what ebbs.

1113
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 2: But it's a cool accomplishment and it does give you

1114
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 2: these goals to say, like, boy, we got our junior hunter.

1115
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 2: What a great accomplishment has to deliver? A hand has

1116
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 2: to be relatively well mannered, has to be relatively steady,

1117
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 2: and it has to do sixty seventy yard marks with

1118
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 2: live birds at least one being live. And you know

1119
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,319
Speaker 2: that's a good duck dog. Well, now the next level

1120
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 2: is they've got to do a double. They've got to

1121
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 2: sit steady and watch another dog work, and they got

1122
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:30,319
Speaker 2: to run a blind retrieve. That's a real duck dog.

1123
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,399
Speaker 2: We can hunt together and if it doesn't see it fall,

1124
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 2: I can stop it on a whistle and change directions

1125
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 2: and get it there. And what a great goal to

1126
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 2: have for you and your hunt buddy, go out there

1127
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 2: and get better. Man.

1128
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 1: So that is a great maybe last point for us

1129
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:50,919
Speaker 1: to wrap this up with, because I've been writing about

1130
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 1: this a lot lately, and I feel like, at this

1131
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:57,839
Speaker 1: stage of my life, I notice, you know, the very

1132
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: first lesson that I really got that's like this was

1133
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 1: when I started tournament fishing when I was in college

1134
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 1: and I was fishing pro am so I was an

1135
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 1: amateur or a pro co so I was a co angler,

1136
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 1: and I got paired up with dudes who were so

1137
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: good at this thing that I was very passionate about.

1138
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: But the level that they were at, Like, there's some

1139
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 1: of the guys that I drew in those tournaments. The

1140
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 1: things I learned from them, I use them every year.

1141
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 2: All the time.

1142
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 1: I've taught so many people, and it was merely it

1143
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: was just like a matter of being exposed in person

1144
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 1: to somebody who had that skill set. And I think

1145
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: about this with dogs all the time, where you know,

1146
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 1: you think about you got to get around a guy

1147
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 1: like you, or you got to get around doc or whoever,

1148
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: and that's great. Like watching somebody work who really knows

1149
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: what they're doing. Is that that education is important. But

1150
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 1: even just like you said, going to a trial, going

1151
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 1: to hunt tests and watching what the dogs are capable

1152
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: of and watching you know, seeing where the wheels fall

1153
00:57:55,640 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: off and seeing where somebody just it's just perfect and

1154
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: then you realize, like what's possible, and those dogs, those

1155
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: are the dogs you have access to, Like if you're

1156
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 1: listening to this, you can have that dog that has

1157
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 1: that blood. Like what you do with it is a

1158
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 1: different story. But seeing that and seeing how they're handled

1159
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 1: and seeing what they can do is so important for

1160
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: just opening our mind to going. Man, I've been like,

1161
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: you know that backyard trainer, you go, there's so much

1162
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 1: more I could do with this to level up my

1163
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 1: relationship and help my dog level up.

1164
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's nothing better than having a hunting buddy kind

1165
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 2: of give you the pad on the back and be

1166
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 2: like that dog was awesome. That was the coolest retree

1167
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,360
Speaker 2: I've ever seen, or boy, what an enjoyable dog to

1168
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 2: hunt with. That that's a great compliment, and that should

1169
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 2: be everybody's goal to train, own and hunt with a

1170
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 2: dog that everybody compliments because it's an enjoyable hunting companion

1171
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 2: and brings the birds back.

1172
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it really is. And it's it's crazy

1173
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: how how easy it is to sort of go through

1174
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 1: life and not be exposed to that. And it's a shame,

1175
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 1: you know, but you kind of have to seek it

1176
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: out a little bit, and you kind of have to

1177
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: put yourself around people who at least know what they're

1178
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 1: doing or at least can recognize that situation. But it's just,

1179
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, I think about this all the time with

1180
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 1: I have two buddies who run ultra marathons. One of

1181
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 1: them runs the hundred milers in the mountains. The other

1182
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: one does like, you know, fifty k's and like long shit, right,

1183
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 1: like real runs, right. And when I started running, you know,

1184
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 1: eight nine years ago, you know, I would be like

1185
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 1: struggling to get like a five k which is three

1186
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 1: point one miles, and I'd be talking to my buddy

1187
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: and he's like, yeah, I did a forty mile training

1188
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 1: run this morning, and it's like you could be discouraged

1189
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 1: by that pretty quickly, right, Like you could be discouraged

1190
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 1: if you if you hung around the wrong trainer, you

1191
00:59:57,760 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: watch the wrong field test or something. You could be like,

1192
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 1: it would be easy to be like, I'm never going

1193
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: to get there. I could never have that. But it's

1194
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 1: almost just a mindset thing to just go, Okay, maybe

1195
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 1: you will never train like Bob Owen. It's probably not.

1196
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 1: But if you take away something some part of it

1197
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 1: to just help your dog get a little better here,

1198
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: or to help yourself not lose your shit when your

1199
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 1: dog doesn't do what you want, it's just a net

1200
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: positive and so getting around those people and those dogs

1201
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 1: that are good, it's just so important.

1202
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't ever want to run fifty miles. I'm

1203
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 2: just gonna throw that.

1204
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 1: Out, dude. Most people don't. Most people don't, but it's

1205
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 1: it's so valuable. I mean, I had a conversation last night.

1206
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 1: We're going way off in the weeds here. But our

1207
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 1: old neighbor moved away probably like five years ago, and

1208
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 1: his daughter is still really good friends with my daughters.

1209
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 1: He's he got divorced a year ago, and he was

1210
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: talking about he's been going to the same gym I

1211
01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: go to, but he's he's like very nervous about the

1212
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 1: weight room, which a lot of people are, and I

1213
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 1: was talking to him about it, and he's like, I

1214
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 1: don't know how to lift weights. I want to, Like

1215
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 1: he's kind of back in the dating game, and he's

1216
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 1: not like right right, He's like, what can I do

1217
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: to stack the odds in my favor here? And I'm like, dude,

1218
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 1: come lift with me. I'll teach you. And he's like,

1219
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: he's so nervous about that. And I told him, I

1220
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 1: said the first time that I went into the weight

1221
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 1: room after I quit drinking, and I was like, I

1222
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 1: didn't want to go in there, right, Like I was

1223
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 1: in terrible shape, but I'm like, I wanted to lift

1224
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 1: weights and get stronger. The very first dude I met

1225
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 1: is this jacked, totally jacked, sleeve tattoos, bald head. He's

1226
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 1: actually a canine police officer here in the Cities. He's

1227
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 1: a really good friend of mine. Now he's a badass.

1228
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: Dude runs this Belgium malanoa that is a He's a

1229
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 1: cool dog. I hear a lot of stories from him

1230
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 1: about dog work. But he was like super nice and

1231
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 1: just like totally non judgmental, just like another one of

1232
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 1: the dudes in the weight room. And I told you

1233
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 1: this old neighbor that I was like, man, nobody cares,

1234
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 1: just like, go try to get better. And I see

1235
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 1: that in all these aspects of our life, where like

1236
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 1: if you're scared to run your dog because of this

1237
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 1: or that, it's like you think that you're gonna go

1238
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 1: to that field trial and those people haven't been through

1239
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: that a billion times, that's right, they have. They're gonna

1240
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 1: walk up to you and be like try this, you know.

1241
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 1: Or I had a dog that was just like that

1242
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 1: and I had to do this and now this and

1243
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you'll be accepted in it's a different

1244
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 1: thing and it will help you so much.

1245
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's super fun man. I just again, it extends

1246
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 2: your hunting season. Why wouldn't anybody want to do that

1247
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 2: with their dog.

1248
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 1: It's great, right, absolutely, Bob. This has been so much fun. Man.

1249
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 1: Where can everybody listen to you? Find your socials all

1250
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 1: that good stuff.

1251
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I had a great time. Thanks for having

1252
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 2: me on. Everybody who tuned in appreciate your attention. I

1253
01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 2: know it's pulled in every different direction, so the fact

1254
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 2: that you listen to us to this point means a

1255
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 2: lot to us. You can find me on Instagram. That's

1256
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 2: where I'm most playful. It's at Loan Duck l O

1257
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 2: n E. Duc K. Our podcast is called Loan Ducks

1258
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 2: Gun Dog Chronicles, a lot of training tips, a lot

1259
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 2: of hunting stories, and we've just had fun with it.

1260
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 2: It's great to just talk with people like yourself and

1261
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 2: get to know your backstory and you're hunting dogs, and

1262
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 2: then you know, training tips to get you to the

1263
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 2: next level. And then YouTube. I've got a couple hundred

1264
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 2: videos on YouTube that help you get you where you

1265
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 2: want to be with your dog. So here to help,

1266
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 2: and again, Tony, thank you for having me on.

1267
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 1: Hey, what's the YouTube channel, Loan Duck Outfitters. Okay, perfect,

1268
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:45,920
Speaker 1: Thanks Bob, Yeah, thank you. That's it for this episode.

1269
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 1: Keep tuning in every other week for regular Houndations episodes,

1270
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: but also keep an eye out for more of these interviews.

1271
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 1: We have a lot of big stuff playing in the

1272
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:56,000
Speaker 1: dog space here at Meat Eater, and as you can

1273
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 1: probably guess, a lot of it will be produced by

1274
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: yours truly always thanks for listening and for all of

1275
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 1: your support. If you want some more dog content like

1276
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 1: training articles, or maybe you want to watch Sadie and

1277
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 1: I go crunch some public land roosters on film, head

1278
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 1: on over to the media dot com and you can

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Speaker 1: check out our latest content. We drop new stuff every

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Speaker 1: single day. There's so much good stuff there, and again,

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Speaker 1: as always, thank you so much for your support.