Speaker 1: Welcome to Zero.
Speaker 2: I'm Oscar Boyd and I'm Christine Driscol and we're the
Speaker 2: producers and Zero.
Speaker 1: And joining us is our host ak keat Rathy Actua.
Speaker 1: Good to have you here, nice to be here. Thanks
Speaker 1: for costing me.
Speaker 2: Well, we had to cost you because we are doing
Speaker 2: something different today. We are going to play a game,
Speaker 2: a guessing game, and I get to win. You might win,
Speaker 2: I don't know. We'll have to see. But as you know,
Speaker 2: we are always talking about climate numbers that are out there.
Speaker 2: We are like seeing percentages, the lowering cost of different technologies,
Speaker 2: and so we wanted to spend an episode talking about
Speaker 2: some of the good numbers that we come across, and
Speaker 2: so we thought would be fun for people to listen
Speaker 2: in as we try to get each other to guess
Speaker 2: some of these positive numbers. So, Oscar, can you provide
Speaker 2: us some structure of how the game is going.
Speaker 1: To go the rules? Yes, So the game is simple.
Speaker 1: Each of us will present one number and then the
Speaker 1: other two have to figure out what that number represents.
Speaker 1: Each person and they can ask three questions, also ask
Speaker 1: for a few clues if you get stuck, and then
Speaker 1: you have to guess.
Speaker 2: Ok. Shot do you copy?
Speaker 3: I do, and it's simple enough.
Speaker 2: Okay, great, So like we're just going to a practice
Speaker 2: around right now. There's no winning or losing, we're just learning.
Speaker 2: So my number is fifty.
Speaker 1: One okay, So I might ask is that a percentage?
Speaker 2: Very very good guess, ask for it is a percentage.
Speaker 3: And I might ask is it to do with fossil fuels?
Speaker 2: It is not a fossil fuel related number.
Speaker 1: So we continue in that fashion. Christine, you might give
Speaker 1: us a couple of clues as well, but eventually we'd
Speaker 1: get to the answer, which is.
Speaker 2: Fifty one percent is the percentage of Sweden's electricity production
Speaker 2: that came from renewables in April this year, and it
Speaker 2: was a new record.
Speaker 3: That's cool.
Speaker 1: Sweden's also got nuclear so it's getting there up there
Speaker 1: with its carbon free grid. Now you give this number away,
Speaker 1: but I'm still interested in this price. What is it?
Speaker 1: That's a good question. So this is a made up game,
Speaker 1: and we thought we'd give the winner a bit of
Speaker 1: a made up prize. So the winner today gets one
Speaker 1: whole carbon offset.
Speaker 3: The worst gift you can give me, right, fantastic?
Speaker 2: All right, Well, let's play the game, which for now
Speaker 2: is called whose number is it? Anyway?
Speaker 1: Okay? Actually, this time it's for real. Do you want
Speaker 1: to do the honors and kick off our inorgal game
Speaker 1: of whose number is it?
Speaker 2: Anyway?
Speaker 3: Thirty two billion?
Speaker 1: Thirty two billion? It's a big number. So I'm going
Speaker 1: to guess that this is a monetary figure. Correct.
Speaker 2: I like that you say monetary figure. I was gonna
Speaker 2: be like, is it money? Go very elegant?
Speaker 1: Okay, So I don't think I've ever used the words
Speaker 1: figured before. I think it's come out today.
Speaker 2: What's the monetary figure? Guessing game? Okay? Is this US dollars?
Speaker 2: It is?
Speaker 1: Okay? Is the money coming from a private source or
Speaker 1: a public slash governmental source?
Speaker 3: A private source?
Speaker 1: Oh? And has this money been spent or will it
Speaker 1: be spent in the future? Spent?
Speaker 2: That's what I was going to ask.
Speaker 1: Okay, I I think it's time to ask for a clue.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, can we have a clue.
Speaker 3: It's got to do with oil companies.
Speaker 2: It's been spent already, and it's good news. Okay, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna guess it. I'm gonna guess that this is I
Speaker 2: guess my final guess. I think thirty two billion dollars
Speaker 2: is the amount of money that has been spent by
Speaker 2: a single oil company in researching carbon capture and sequestration.
Speaker 1: And oscar I'm going to say it's the amount of
Speaker 1: money that US oil companies shifted into renewables last year.
Speaker 1: So Christina're wildly optimistic. I don't think a single oil
Speaker 1: company is spent that much money on carbon capture research.
Speaker 1: That would be a lot of money to be spent
Speaker 1: on carbon capture research. I mean, typically a carbon capture
Speaker 1: plant that captures about a million tons is going to
Speaker 1: be about a billion a billion and a half dollars.
Speaker 1: So you're kind of looking at a really large carbon
Speaker 1: capture plant if you're going to build that much money.
Speaker 1: But Christine's one is organic, So.
Speaker 3: All of this is organic. Your fossil fields are organic.
Speaker 2: But I also was thinking about I was also thinking
Speaker 2: oil isn't going to do carbon capture and sequestration. It's
Speaker 2: going to be a coal plant.
Speaker 3: No, you're right in that oil and gas companies are
Speaker 3: the companies that will build most of the carbon capture
Speaker 3: plants because they are the companies that can handle large
Speaker 3: amounts of gases, which is what you need to do
Speaker 3: and to do carbon capture and so it's in the
Speaker 3: right area, but the wrong ballpark, and OSCAR is in
Speaker 3: the right direction, but it's not all renewables. So thirty
Speaker 3: two billion dollars is the total amount of money spent
Speaker 3: by oil majors on low carbon investments in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3: That is roughly nine percent of their total expenditure on
Speaker 3: all energy, which means the rest of the ninety one
Speaker 3: percent is on fossil fuels.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: What is striking about this number, though, is that even
Speaker 3: though this number has gone up quite a bit in
Speaker 3: recent years as a share of the total spend on
Speaker 3: the energy transition, it has remained static since twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3: So oil and gas companies, even as they're spending more
Speaker 3: on low carbon investments, their total share is only three
Speaker 3: percent of the energy transition and has been the same
Speaker 3: since twenty eighteen roughly.
Speaker 1: So, you mean, despite all the adverts we see on
Speaker 1: TV saying that they're spending loads and loads and loads
Speaker 1: on renewables, it's not really hot. Well, nothing's changed. I
Speaker 1: mean we knew that. You know, there are currently regulators
Speaker 1: out to get oil and gas companies to make sure
Speaker 1: they don't use green wasshy terms like carbon neutral and
Speaker 1: so green washing in the advertising of oil and gas
Speaker 1: industries is infamous now. But it is true that they
Speaker 1: are spending in absolute sums, larger and larger money, and
Speaker 1: yet their contribution to the energy transition hasn't really grown.
Speaker 1: What counts as a low carbon investment.
Speaker 3: All kinds of things, so that would be not just renewables,
Speaker 3: but batteries, but also carbon capture, capturing methane emissions or
Speaker 3: stopping leaks would count anything that really reduces emissions.
Speaker 1: Actually, that was a great first number. Who won the
Speaker 1: first round?
Speaker 3: Well, I think you were closed, so Oscar, you win,
Speaker 3: But that means Christine gets a reward and she gets
Speaker 3: to go next.
Speaker 2: Okay, my number is six point one.
Speaker 1: Ooh, that's one of my favorite numbers.
Speaker 3: Ow very small number, or is it? Well, it's gotta
Speaker 3: be six point one degree celsius because then we'll be
Speaker 3: roasted and that's not good.
Speaker 1: Nears.
Speaker 2: No, I was thinking, should I give you the metric
Speaker 2: as a hint? Straight away? I'm ready to make a deal.
Speaker 1: Do you think it would be impossible without the metric?
Speaker 2: No, but I think the metric will make it go faster.
Speaker 1: Let's they're around a guessing first, so six point one
Speaker 1: is it a monetary figure?
Speaker 2: No, it is not.
Speaker 3: Well, if it's not monetary, it's a unit to measure
Speaker 3: what a physical thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely something that's physical, but you can't truly
Speaker 2: observe with the naked eye. And I'll also give you
Speaker 2: another hint, which is it is certainly something that we're
Speaker 2: using right now.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's hard.
Speaker 2: Can I tell you what the thing we're using right
Speaker 2: now is?
Speaker 1: Either tell us that or tell us the unit. I
Speaker 1: think that'll be useful.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're all using electricity right now, which is a
Speaker 2: form of.
Speaker 1: Energy.
Speaker 2: Yes, so I'll give you the metric.
Speaker 1: This is gigawatts, six point one gigawatts. Is this related
Speaker 1: to the installation of a certain type of technology.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes it is.
Speaker 3: I think you're burning to your guests, man, that was obvious.
Speaker 3: Is it an installation of a form of energy that's
Speaker 3: renewables and in your part of America?
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, it is installation of renewables. And I will
Speaker 2: say that it is in like my part of America,
Speaker 2: and that it is all of America.
Speaker 1: Six point one gigawats.
Speaker 3: That's too little for wind, that's too little for solar.
Speaker 2: So is it that Hang on, you haven't guessed the
Speaker 2: time scale?
Speaker 1: Is this on an annual timescale?
Speaker 2: No, it's sub annual.
Speaker 1: Sub annual.
Speaker 3: Yeah, probably a monthly number. Yeah, I mean, and I
Speaker 3: could guess it would be the monthly installation of wind
Speaker 3: power in all of America?
Speaker 2: Oscar Uh, are you ready to do your final guests?
Speaker 1: I'll do my final guest because I don't really know
Speaker 1: what it is, so I'm just going to make something up.
Speaker 1: Is it the total capacity of new batteries installed in
Speaker 1: houses in assesson month?
Speaker 2: No, it's it's not so. The timescale is a very
Speaker 2: bloomberg timescale, which is Q one. And so this was
Speaker 2: the amount of solar capacity added in the United States
Speaker 2: just in Q one. This is the most solar capacity
Speaker 2: that's been added in like the United States in the
Speaker 2: first quarter, which is very exciting. Actually looks upset, like
Speaker 2: you might not think this is real.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I am upset, But I will tell
Speaker 3: you why exactly why.
Speaker 2: Okay, I saw this number researching something's about solar and
Speaker 2: I was like, wow, that's very exciting. So in like
Speaker 2: the first it's just this just this one quarter which
Speaker 2: is like just past. It was like just over fifty
Speaker 2: percent of all new electric generation in the US, which
Speaker 2: was very exciting. And we are on track. This hasn't
Speaker 2: happened yet, but we're on track to have half of
Speaker 2: all new generation in the US that's added to be
Speaker 2: in solar.
Speaker 1: It is good news. Why I'm surprised by it, and
Speaker 1: maybe I should really not be, is how far behind
Speaker 1: America is compared to China. The number I had in
Speaker 1: my mind of solar is that China is going to
Speaker 1: install one hundred and fifty four gigawarts of solar in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. Divide that by four. That means roughly
Speaker 1: forty gigawarts of solar in a quarter. That's roughly seven
Speaker 1: times the amount of solar that America installed in Q one.
Speaker 1: We have a long way to go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that American industry should be more committed
Speaker 2: to beating China. Maybe this is like the only area
Speaker 2: that I would condone that kind of like blind competition.
Speaker 2: But I do think it's really good that half of
Speaker 2: new US electric generation is going to be solar.
Speaker 3: It is also fair that new generation in America will
Speaker 3: be a smaller number compared to China, where energy demand
Speaker 3: is growing much much more rapidly, whereas actually energy demand
Speaker 3: in America is falling.
Speaker 2: Also, I am not like too much of a booster.
Speaker 2: I was like, this is so great, but also, you know,
Speaker 2: what does this even represent in our electricity mix? And
Speaker 2: it's just you know, natural gas is it by a
Speaker 2: long shot. Another exciting thing is just like, so, for instance,
Speaker 2: if we are adding about they're protecting twenty gigaottes of
Speaker 2: additional solar generation, but the last year eleven gigaatts of
Speaker 2: coal was retired. So for perspectives, that's pretty good.
Speaker 1: Christine, I've got a question for you, which is, yeah,
Speaker 1: as you're driving around the US at the moment, do
Speaker 1: you feel like you're seeing more solar?
Speaker 2: Biking around? I see a lot more solar. I went
Speaker 2: on a really long bike trip recently and when we
Speaker 2: were coming back, we passed like a utility scale solar
Speaker 2: generation field and it was really shocking to see, honestly,
Speaker 2: because most of my life I didn't see that. I
Speaker 2: also see tons of houses just where I live with
Speaker 2: solar panels on their roofs, and it feels very exciting
Speaker 2: also very like hilariously enough, someone on the local news
Speaker 2: was like, you might think that Wisconsin can't use solar
Speaker 2: that much. But actually all of our snow reflects even
Speaker 2: more suns so like solar's great in snowy places.
Speaker 3: And you know, to be fair, I dumped on America
Speaker 3: because of China's numbers. A closer comparison would be Europe.
Speaker 3: And even Europe is, my goodness, so much further ahead
Speaker 3: than America. In twenty twenty two, Europe installed forty gigawats
Speaker 3: of solar, so that's all already twice what America is
Speaker 3: going to install this year roughly.
Speaker 1: Hey, the good news is people are installing solo. And
Speaker 1: on that showy note, let's go to the break. Yeh hi,
Speaker 1: it's sucksh. I'll be traveling to Singapore, Sydney, Melbourne, and
Speaker 1: Delhi over the next few weeks to record a few
Speaker 1: episodes of Zero. I'll be hosting meetups and eat city
Speaker 1: for those interested in talking about climate solutions. If you'd
Speaker 1: like to join, please fill the Google form in the
Speaker 1: show notes. You can find all the dates and details there.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. We've got some more numbers
Speaker 2: to guess, Oscar. What is your number that you've brought?
Speaker 1: My number is thirty thousand.
Speaker 2: This is a number of people.
Speaker 1: You think it's a number of people, Yes, I do.
Speaker 1: It is not a number of people. Okay, it's a
Speaker 1: good number of people.
Speaker 2: I was going to go, it's the number of cyclists
Speaker 2: doing something.
Speaker 3: Is it a monetary unit or not?
Speaker 1: It is not a monetary unit. It is not. Would
Speaker 1: you like a clue?
Speaker 2: I think I want a unit clue. I want a
Speaker 2: unit clue.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to give you a unit clue because
Speaker 1: it gets this too close too quickly. So I'm just
Speaker 1: going to give you a clue. It's to do with
Speaker 1: a country that Actuat just visited.
Speaker 2: Paris, which is not a country, France. I think this
Speaker 2: is a distance. I think this is a distance. Is
Speaker 2: it a distance? It is a distance, yes, okay. I
Speaker 2: think it's going to be something about rail.
Speaker 3: I think it's going to be the kilometers of bike
Speaker 3: lane in France.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's annoyingly on point.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, and getting the offset Yes.
Speaker 1: Was close too.
Speaker 2: She gave it.
Speaker 1: This is good. It's too no, so this is very
Speaker 1: timely because of the tour of France is just about
Speaker 1: to begin. In fact, depending on when this episode goes out,
Speaker 1: it already might be halfway through. So Yes, thirty thousand
Speaker 1: is thirty thousand kilometers, and that is the number of
Speaker 1: kilometers of new cycle lanes that are going to be
Speaker 1: built in France by twenty twenty seven, new new cycle
Speaker 1: lanes in France by twenty twenty seven. And just for perspective,
Speaker 1: thirty thousand is about three quarters of the length of
Speaker 1: the equator wow, which is forty thousand kilometers. So yeah,
Speaker 1: so they've got a target for twenty twenty seven or
Speaker 1: thirty thousand klometers. They've got a target of twenty thirty
Speaker 1: or fifty thousand kilometers, and they currently have fifty thousand
Speaker 1: kilometers built, So by twenty thirty, basically they're trying to
Speaker 1: double the distance of cycle lanes.
Speaker 2: Where are they building it? Like, are they so for instance,
Speaker 2: like here all of our spike lanes are like next
Speaker 2: to all railroads. Are they making new ones or is
Speaker 2: it like I don't know, is there anything like that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? The main focus is between cities and in kind
Speaker 1: of more provincial cities. I think Paris has done a
Speaker 1: very good job, especially during the pandemic. One of the
Speaker 1: big success stories was how much they'd managed to expand
Speaker 1: their cycle network. But I think the plan Is by
Speaker 1: twenty thirty. They want to link all those cities together
Speaker 1: to create like a huge national cycle network. And a
Speaker 1: lot of this comes from tourism as well. So estimates
Speaker 1: from the Association for the Promotion of Cycling and Active
Speaker 1: Travel said that cycle tourism in France contributed four point
Speaker 1: five billion euros to the economy in twenty nineteen, so
Speaker 1: it's a huge, huge industry there, and yeah, it's being
Speaker 1: supported by two billion euros to twenty twenty seven to
Speaker 1: actually make it happen.
Speaker 3: Paris was the first continental European city I visited in
Speaker 3: two thousand and nine, and the difference between that memory
Speaker 3: of Paris where I went around it was February, was
Speaker 3: very cold, went around taking lots and lots of photographs
Speaker 3: with gloves on and seeing really no bike lanes to today,
Speaker 3: when there's so many backplanes. It's pretty apparent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's an amazing thing. If they get
Speaker 1: that many cycle lanes all around the country, I think
Speaker 1: it is going to transform how people get around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially with e bikes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, e bikes, and that's a huge part of the
Speaker 1: you know, they've got something like five hundred million euros
Speaker 1: and subsidies for people to buy new bikes. They want
Speaker 1: to improve station parking and everything. So it's a whole
Speaker 1: unified strategy that they want to turn France into the
Speaker 1: true true nation of cycling, which it kind of already
Speaker 1: is with the Tour de France.
Speaker 2: All right, cool, so akshat. What was your guiding? Like,
Speaker 2: what was your strategy for finding your numbers?
Speaker 3: I found six numbers in ten minutes, all numbers that
Speaker 3: are positive for the climate. And I did that by
Speaker 3: just going through my own tweets. Oh, I go too far.
Speaker 1: Three days of tweets and I had the six numbers.
Speaker 1: I had more than six numbers. It's like the ones
Speaker 1: I really that we should talk about.
Speaker 2: That's a great tip for reporters, just like treat your
Speaker 2: Twitter feed like your notebook of things you're comfortable sharing,
Speaker 2: and it's a great resource for stuff like this. Wow,
Speaker 2: that's so funny. Maybe I'll start tweeting.
Speaker 1: I'll go in about you.
Speaker 2: How do you pick your numbers?
Speaker 1: I'm a subscriber to a newsleticlled Future Crunch, which if
Speaker 1: you haven't heard of it, I'd recommend subscribing to it.
Speaker 1: The whole thing is picking positive numbers and bits of
Speaker 1: data and stories that kind of fly below the radar,
Speaker 1: but are usually quite gradual improvements in various things. They
Speaker 1: do a lot of stuff about medicine, about conservation, and
Speaker 1: also good climate numbers as well. So this thirty thousand
Speaker 1: kilometer figure that came from the Future Crunch newsletter, Wow, Christine.
Speaker 2: I have been working on an episode that's going to
Speaker 2: be about solar power. So I've been spending some time
Speaker 2: looking into how much it's grown. And I'm always very
Speaker 2: skeptical of positive numbers, and so I wanted to make
Speaker 2: sure I knew exactly like what the US electric generation
Speaker 2: was looking like. So I spent a lot of time
Speaker 2: on the Energy Information Administration website as well as a
Speaker 2: report from Wood McKenzie about the growth of solar And
Speaker 2: I also really wanted to have a number that was
Speaker 2: not about money and had happened in the past, so
Speaker 2: like I knew that it was for real.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys, Thank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was a fun one.
Speaker 1: Thanks for playing Who's number is it? Anyway?
Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to zero. Let us know what
Speaker 3: you thought of this format at zero port at Bloomberg
Speaker 3: dot net.
Speaker 2: If you like it, share it with a friend. Or
Speaker 2: someone you watch game shows.
Speaker 3: With, and feel free to tweet at me with any
Speaker 3: inspiring climate numbers. You never know we might feature them
Speaker 3: on a future episode.
Speaker 1: Zeros produces me Oscar Boyd, and Senior producer is Christine
Speaker 1: driscoll Our theme music is by Wonderly Special Thanks this
Speaker 1: week to care Binjum and if you're interested in all
Speaker 1: the numbers we shared in this episode, check out the
Speaker 1: show notes.
Speaker 3: I'm Akshatrati back next week