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Speaker 1: Welcome to Zero.

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Speaker 2: I'm Oscar Boyd and I'm Christine Driscol and we're the

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Speaker 2: producers and Zero.

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Speaker 1: And joining us is our host ak keat Rathy Actua.

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Speaker 1: Good to have you here, nice to be here. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for costing me.

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Speaker 2: Well, we had to cost you because we are doing

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Speaker 2: something different today. We are going to play a game,

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Speaker 2: a guessing game, and I get to win. You might win,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. We'll have to see. But as you know,

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Speaker 2: we are always talking about climate numbers that are out there.

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Speaker 2: We are like seeing percentages, the lowering cost of different technologies,

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Speaker 2: and so we wanted to spend an episode talking about

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Speaker 2: some of the good numbers that we come across, and

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Speaker 2: so we thought would be fun for people to listen

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Speaker 2: in as we try to get each other to guess

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Speaker 2: some of these positive numbers. So, Oscar, can you provide

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Speaker 2: us some structure of how the game is going.

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Speaker 1: To go the rules? Yes, So the game is simple.

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Speaker 1: Each of us will present one number and then the

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Speaker 1: other two have to figure out what that number represents.

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Speaker 1: Each person and they can ask three questions, also ask

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Speaker 1: for a few clues if you get stuck, and then

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Speaker 1: you have to guess.

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Speaker 2: Ok. Shot do you copy?

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Speaker 3: I do, and it's simple enough.

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Speaker 2: Okay, great, So like we're just going to a practice

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Speaker 2: around right now. There's no winning or losing, we're just learning.

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Speaker 2: So my number is fifty.

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Speaker 1: One okay, So I might ask is that a percentage?

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Speaker 2: Very very good guess, ask for it is a percentage.

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Speaker 3: And I might ask is it to do with fossil fuels?

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Speaker 2: It is not a fossil fuel related number.

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Speaker 1: So we continue in that fashion. Christine, you might give

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Speaker 1: us a couple of clues as well, but eventually we'd

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Speaker 1: get to the answer, which is.

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Speaker 2: Fifty one percent is the percentage of Sweden's electricity production

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Speaker 2: that came from renewables in April this year, and it

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Speaker 2: was a new record.

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Speaker 3: That's cool.

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Speaker 1: Sweden's also got nuclear so it's getting there up there

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Speaker 1: with its carbon free grid. Now you give this number away,

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Speaker 1: but I'm still interested in this price. What is it?

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Speaker 1: That's a good question. So this is a made up game,

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Speaker 1: and we thought we'd give the winner a bit of

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Speaker 1: a made up prize. So the winner today gets one

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Speaker 1: whole carbon offset.

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Speaker 3: The worst gift you can give me, right, fantastic?

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, let's play the game, which for now

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Speaker 2: is called whose number is it? Anyway?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Actually, this time it's for real. Do you want

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Speaker 1: to do the honors and kick off our inorgal game

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Speaker 1: of whose number is it?

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Speaker 2: Anyway?

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Speaker 3: Thirty two billion?

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Speaker 1: Thirty two billion? It's a big number. So I'm going

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Speaker 1: to guess that this is a monetary figure. Correct.

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Speaker 2: I like that you say monetary figure. I was gonna

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Speaker 2: be like, is it money? Go very elegant?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I don't think I've ever used the words

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Speaker 1: figured before. I think it's come out today.

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Speaker 2: What's the monetary figure? Guessing game? Okay? Is this US dollars?

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Speaker 2: It is?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Is the money coming from a private source or

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Speaker 1: a public slash governmental source?

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Speaker 3: A private source?

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Speaker 1: Oh? And has this money been spent or will it

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Speaker 1: be spent in the future? Spent?

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Speaker 2: That's what I was going to ask.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I I think it's time to ask for a clue.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, can we have a clue.

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Speaker 3: It's got to do with oil companies.

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Speaker 2: It's been spent already, and it's good news. Okay, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna guess it. I'm gonna guess that this is I

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Speaker 2: guess my final guess. I think thirty two billion dollars

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Speaker 2: is the amount of money that has been spent by

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Speaker 2: a single oil company in researching carbon capture and sequestration.

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Speaker 1: And oscar I'm going to say it's the amount of

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Speaker 1: money that US oil companies shifted into renewables last year.

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Speaker 1: So Christina're wildly optimistic. I don't think a single oil

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Speaker 1: company is spent that much money on carbon capture research.

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Speaker 1: That would be a lot of money to be spent

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Speaker 1: on carbon capture research. I mean, typically a carbon capture

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Speaker 1: plant that captures about a million tons is going to

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Speaker 1: be about a billion a billion and a half dollars.

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Speaker 1: So you're kind of looking at a really large carbon

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Speaker 1: capture plant if you're going to build that much money.

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Speaker 1: But Christine's one is organic, So.

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Speaker 3: All of this is organic. Your fossil fields are organic.

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Speaker 2: But I also was thinking about I was also thinking

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Speaker 2: oil isn't going to do carbon capture and sequestration. It's

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Speaker 2: going to be a coal plant.

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Speaker 3: No, you're right in that oil and gas companies are

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Speaker 3: the companies that will build most of the carbon capture

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Speaker 3: plants because they are the companies that can handle large

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Speaker 3: amounts of gases, which is what you need to do

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Speaker 3: and to do carbon capture and so it's in the

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Speaker 3: right area, but the wrong ballpark, and OSCAR is in

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Speaker 3: the right direction, but it's not all renewables. So thirty

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Speaker 3: two billion dollars is the total amount of money spent

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Speaker 3: by oil majors on low carbon investments in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 3: That is roughly nine percent of their total expenditure on

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Speaker 3: all energy, which means the rest of the ninety one

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Speaker 3: percent is on fossil fuels.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: What is striking about this number, though, is that even

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Speaker 3: though this number has gone up quite a bit in

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Speaker 3: recent years as a share of the total spend on

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Speaker 3: the energy transition, it has remained static since twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 3: So oil and gas companies, even as they're spending more

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Speaker 3: on low carbon investments, their total share is only three

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Speaker 3: percent of the energy transition and has been the same

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Speaker 3: since twenty eighteen roughly.

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Speaker 1: So, you mean, despite all the adverts we see on

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Speaker 1: TV saying that they're spending loads and loads and loads

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Speaker 1: on renewables, it's not really hot. Well, nothing's changed. I

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Speaker 1: mean we knew that. You know, there are currently regulators

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Speaker 1: out to get oil and gas companies to make sure

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Speaker 1: they don't use green wasshy terms like carbon neutral and

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Speaker 1: so green washing in the advertising of oil and gas

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Speaker 1: industries is infamous now. But it is true that they

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Speaker 1: are spending in absolute sums, larger and larger money, and

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Speaker 1: yet their contribution to the energy transition hasn't really grown.

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Speaker 1: What counts as a low carbon investment.

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Speaker 3: All kinds of things, so that would be not just renewables,

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Speaker 3: but batteries, but also carbon capture, capturing methane emissions or

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Speaker 3: stopping leaks would count anything that really reduces emissions.

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Speaker 1: Actually, that was a great first number. Who won the

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Speaker 1: first round?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think you were closed, so Oscar, you win,

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Speaker 3: But that means Christine gets a reward and she gets

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Speaker 3: to go next.

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Speaker 2: Okay, my number is six point one.

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Speaker 1: Ooh, that's one of my favorite numbers.

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Speaker 3: Ow very small number, or is it? Well, it's gotta

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Speaker 3: be six point one degree celsius because then we'll be

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Speaker 3: roasted and that's not good.

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Speaker 1: Nears.

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Speaker 2: No, I was thinking, should I give you the metric

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Speaker 2: as a hint? Straight away? I'm ready to make a deal.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it would be impossible without the metric?

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Speaker 2: No, but I think the metric will make it go faster.

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Speaker 1: Let's they're around a guessing first, so six point one

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Speaker 1: is it a monetary figure?

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Speaker 2: No, it is not.

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Speaker 3: Well, if it's not monetary, it's a unit to measure

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Speaker 3: what a physical thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely something that's physical, but you can't truly

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Speaker 2: observe with the naked eye. And I'll also give you

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Speaker 2: another hint, which is it is certainly something that we're

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Speaker 2: using right now.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that's hard.

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Speaker 2: Can I tell you what the thing we're using right

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Speaker 2: now is?

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Speaker 1: Either tell us that or tell us the unit. I

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Speaker 1: think that'll be useful.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we're all using electricity right now, which is a

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Speaker 2: form of.

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Speaker 1: Energy.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so I'll give you the metric.

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Speaker 1: This is gigawatts, six point one gigawatts. Is this related

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Speaker 1: to the installation of a certain type of technology.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes it is.

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Speaker 3: I think you're burning to your guests, man, that was obvious.

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Speaker 3: Is it an installation of a form of energy that's

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Speaker 3: renewables and in your part of America?

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Speaker 2: Okay, yes, it is installation of renewables. And I will

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Speaker 2: say that it is in like my part of America,

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Speaker 2: and that it is all of America.

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Speaker 1: Six point one gigawats.

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Speaker 3: That's too little for wind, that's too little for solar.

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Speaker 2: So is it that Hang on, you haven't guessed the

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Speaker 2: time scale?

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Speaker 1: Is this on an annual timescale?

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Speaker 2: No, it's sub annual.

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Speaker 1: Sub annual.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, probably a monthly number. Yeah, I mean, and I

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Speaker 3: could guess it would be the monthly installation of wind

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Speaker 3: power in all of America?

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Speaker 2: Oscar Uh, are you ready to do your final guests?

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Speaker 1: I'll do my final guest because I don't really know

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Speaker 1: what it is, so I'm just going to make something up.

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Speaker 1: Is it the total capacity of new batteries installed in

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Speaker 1: houses in assesson month?

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Speaker 2: No, it's it's not so. The timescale is a very

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Speaker 2: bloomberg timescale, which is Q one. And so this was

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Speaker 2: the amount of solar capacity added in the United States

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Speaker 2: just in Q one. This is the most solar capacity

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Speaker 2: that's been added in like the United States in the

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Speaker 2: first quarter, which is very exciting. Actually looks upset, like

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Speaker 2: you might not think this is real.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, I am upset, But I will tell

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Speaker 3: you why exactly why.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I saw this number researching something's about solar and

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Speaker 2: I was like, wow, that's very exciting. So in like

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Speaker 2: the first it's just this just this one quarter which

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Speaker 2: is like just past. It was like just over fifty

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Speaker 2: percent of all new electric generation in the US, which

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Speaker 2: was very exciting. And we are on track. This hasn't

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Speaker 2: happened yet, but we're on track to have half of

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Speaker 2: all new generation in the US that's added to be

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Speaker 2: in solar.

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Speaker 1: It is good news. Why I'm surprised by it, and

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Speaker 1: maybe I should really not be, is how far behind

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Speaker 1: America is compared to China. The number I had in

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Speaker 1: my mind of solar is that China is going to

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Speaker 1: install one hundred and fifty four gigawarts of solar in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. Divide that by four. That means roughly

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Speaker 1: forty gigawarts of solar in a quarter. That's roughly seven

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Speaker 1: times the amount of solar that America installed in Q one.

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Speaker 1: We have a long way to go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that American industry should be more committed

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Speaker 2: to beating China. Maybe this is like the only area

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Speaker 2: that I would condone that kind of like blind competition.

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Speaker 2: But I do think it's really good that half of

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Speaker 2: new US electric generation is going to be solar.

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Speaker 3: It is also fair that new generation in America will

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Speaker 3: be a smaller number compared to China, where energy demand

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Speaker 3: is growing much much more rapidly, whereas actually energy demand

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Speaker 3: in America is falling.

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Speaker 2: Also, I am not like too much of a booster.

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Speaker 2: I was like, this is so great, but also, you know,

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Speaker 2: what does this even represent in our electricity mix? And

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Speaker 2: it's just you know, natural gas is it by a

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Speaker 2: long shot. Another exciting thing is just like, so, for instance,

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Speaker 2: if we are adding about they're protecting twenty gigaottes of

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Speaker 2: additional solar generation, but the last year eleven gigaatts of

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Speaker 2: coal was retired. So for perspectives, that's pretty good.

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Speaker 1: Christine, I've got a question for you, which is, yeah,

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Speaker 1: as you're driving around the US at the moment, do

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Speaker 1: you feel like you're seeing more solar?

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Speaker 2: Biking around? I see a lot more solar. I went

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Speaker 2: on a really long bike trip recently and when we

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Speaker 2: were coming back, we passed like a utility scale solar

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Speaker 2: generation field and it was really shocking to see, honestly,

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Speaker 2: because most of my life I didn't see that. I

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Speaker 2: also see tons of houses just where I live with

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Speaker 2: solar panels on their roofs, and it feels very exciting

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Speaker 2: also very like hilariously enough, someone on the local news

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Speaker 2: was like, you might think that Wisconsin can't use solar

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Speaker 2: that much. But actually all of our snow reflects even

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Speaker 2: more suns so like solar's great in snowy places.

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Speaker 3: And you know, to be fair, I dumped on America

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Speaker 3: because of China's numbers. A closer comparison would be Europe.

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Speaker 3: And even Europe is, my goodness, so much further ahead

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Speaker 3: than America. In twenty twenty two, Europe installed forty gigawats

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Speaker 3: of solar, so that's all already twice what America is

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Speaker 3: going to install this year roughly.

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Speaker 1: Hey, the good news is people are installing solo. And

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Speaker 1: on that showy note, let's go to the break. Yeh hi,

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Speaker 1: it's sucksh. I'll be traveling to Singapore, Sydney, Melbourne, and

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Speaker 1: Delhi over the next few weeks to record a few

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Speaker 1: episodes of Zero. I'll be hosting meetups and eat city

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Speaker 1: for those interested in talking about climate solutions. If you'd

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Speaker 1: like to join, please fill the Google form in the

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Speaker 1: show notes. You can find all the dates and details there.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. We've got some more numbers

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Speaker 2: to guess, Oscar. What is your number that you've brought?

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Speaker 1: My number is thirty thousand.

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Speaker 2: This is a number of people.

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Speaker 1: You think it's a number of people, Yes, I do.

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Speaker 1: It is not a number of people. Okay, it's a

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Speaker 1: good number of people.

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Speaker 2: I was going to go, it's the number of cyclists

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Speaker 2: doing something.

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Speaker 3: Is it a monetary unit or not?

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Speaker 1: It is not a monetary unit. It is not. Would

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Speaker 1: you like a clue?

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Speaker 2: I think I want a unit clue. I want a

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Speaker 2: unit clue.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to give you a unit clue because

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Speaker 1: it gets this too close too quickly. So I'm just

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Speaker 1: going to give you a clue. It's to do with

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Speaker 1: a country that Actuat just visited.

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Speaker 2: Paris, which is not a country, France. I think this

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Speaker 2: is a distance. I think this is a distance. Is

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Speaker 2: it a distance? It is a distance, yes, okay. I

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Speaker 2: think it's going to be something about rail.

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Speaker 3: I think it's going to be the kilometers of bike

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Speaker 3: lane in France.

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's annoyingly on point.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, and getting the offset Yes.

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Speaker 1: Was close too.

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Speaker 2: She gave it.

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Speaker 1: This is good. It's too no, so this is very

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Speaker 1: timely because of the tour of France is just about

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Speaker 1: to begin. In fact, depending on when this episode goes out,

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Speaker 1: it already might be halfway through. So Yes, thirty thousand

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Speaker 1: is thirty thousand kilometers, and that is the number of

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Speaker 1: kilometers of new cycle lanes that are going to be

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Speaker 1: built in France by twenty twenty seven, new new cycle

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Speaker 1: lanes in France by twenty twenty seven. And just for perspective,

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Speaker 1: thirty thousand is about three quarters of the length of

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Speaker 1: the equator wow, which is forty thousand kilometers. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: so they've got a target for twenty twenty seven or

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Speaker 1: thirty thousand klometers. They've got a target of twenty thirty

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Speaker 1: or fifty thousand kilometers, and they currently have fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: kilometers built, So by twenty thirty, basically they're trying to

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Speaker 1: double the distance of cycle lanes.

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Speaker 2: Where are they building it? Like, are they so for instance,

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Speaker 2: like here all of our spike lanes are like next

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Speaker 2: to all railroads. Are they making new ones or is

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Speaker 2: it like I don't know, is there anything like that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? The main focus is between cities and in kind

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Speaker 1: of more provincial cities. I think Paris has done a

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Speaker 1: very good job, especially during the pandemic. One of the

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Speaker 1: big success stories was how much they'd managed to expand

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Speaker 1: their cycle network. But I think the plan Is by

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Speaker 1: twenty thirty. They want to link all those cities together

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Speaker 1: to create like a huge national cycle network. And a

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Speaker 1: lot of this comes from tourism as well. So estimates

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Speaker 1: from the Association for the Promotion of Cycling and Active

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Speaker 1: Travel said that cycle tourism in France contributed four point

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Speaker 1: five billion euros to the economy in twenty nineteen, so

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Speaker 1: it's a huge, huge industry there, and yeah, it's being

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Speaker 1: supported by two billion euros to twenty twenty seven to

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Speaker 1: actually make it happen.

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Speaker 3: Paris was the first continental European city I visited in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and nine, and the difference between that memory

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Speaker 3: of Paris where I went around it was February, was

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Speaker 3: very cold, went around taking lots and lots of photographs

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Speaker 3: with gloves on and seeing really no bike lanes to today,

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Speaker 3: when there's so many backplanes. It's pretty apparent.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's an amazing thing. If they get

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Speaker 1: that many cycle lanes all around the country, I think

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Speaker 1: it is going to transform how people get around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, especially with e bikes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, e bikes, and that's a huge part of the

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Speaker 1: you know, they've got something like five hundred million euros

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Speaker 1: and subsidies for people to buy new bikes. They want

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Speaker 1: to improve station parking and everything. So it's a whole

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Speaker 1: unified strategy that they want to turn France into the

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Speaker 1: true true nation of cycling, which it kind of already

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Speaker 1: is with the Tour de France.

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Speaker 2: All right, cool, so akshat. What was your guiding? Like,

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Speaker 2: what was your strategy for finding your numbers?

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Speaker 3: I found six numbers in ten minutes, all numbers that

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Speaker 3: are positive for the climate. And I did that by

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Speaker 3: just going through my own tweets. Oh, I go too far.

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Speaker 1: Three days of tweets and I had the six numbers.

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Speaker 1: I had more than six numbers. It's like the ones

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Speaker 1: I really that we should talk about.

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Speaker 2: That's a great tip for reporters, just like treat your

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Speaker 2: Twitter feed like your notebook of things you're comfortable sharing,

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Speaker 2: and it's a great resource for stuff like this. Wow,

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Speaker 2: that's so funny. Maybe I'll start tweeting.

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Speaker 1: I'll go in about you.

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Speaker 2: How do you pick your numbers?

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Speaker 1: I'm a subscriber to a newsleticlled Future Crunch, which if

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Speaker 1: you haven't heard of it, I'd recommend subscribing to it.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing is picking positive numbers and bits of

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Speaker 1: data and stories that kind of fly below the radar,

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Speaker 1: but are usually quite gradual improvements in various things. They

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Speaker 1: do a lot of stuff about medicine, about conservation, and

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Speaker 1: also good climate numbers as well. So this thirty thousand

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Speaker 1: kilometer figure that came from the Future Crunch newsletter, Wow, Christine.

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Speaker 2: I have been working on an episode that's going to

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Speaker 2: be about solar power. So I've been spending some time

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Speaker 2: looking into how much it's grown. And I'm always very

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Speaker 2: skeptical of positive numbers, and so I wanted to make

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Speaker 2: sure I knew exactly like what the US electric generation

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Speaker 2: was looking like. So I spent a lot of time

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Speaker 2: on the Energy Information Administration website as well as a

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Speaker 2: report from Wood McKenzie about the growth of solar And

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Speaker 2: I also really wanted to have a number that was

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Speaker 2: not about money and had happened in the past, so

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Speaker 2: like I knew that it was for real.

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Speaker 1: Thank you guys, Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this was a fun one.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for playing Who's number is it? Anyway?

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Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to zero. Let us know what

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Speaker 3: you thought of this format at zero port at Bloomberg

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Speaker 3: dot net.

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Speaker 2: If you like it, share it with a friend. Or

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Speaker 2: someone you watch game shows.

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Speaker 3: With, and feel free to tweet at me with any

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Speaker 3: inspiring climate numbers. You never know we might feature them

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Speaker 3: on a future episode.

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Speaker 1: Zeros produces me Oscar Boyd, and Senior producer is Christine

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Speaker 1: driscoll Our theme music is by Wonderly Special Thanks this

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Speaker 1: week to care Binjum and if you're interested in all

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Speaker 1: the numbers we shared in this episode, check out the

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Speaker 1: show notes.

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Speaker 3: I'm Akshatrati back next week