1 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: From the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio at the George Washington 2 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: Broadcasts Centre, Jack Armstrong and Joe Petty Armstrong and Getty show. 3 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: Yacht sales are also booming. Some billionaires are building such 4 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: big yachts they can cost over five hundred million dollars. 5 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: These yachts have everything you could want and a lot 6 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: you don't. One yacht had a dedicated cocaine room. I'm 7 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: gonna say, if you have a dedicated cocaine room, every 8 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: room is a dedicated cocaine roll. Yeah, good point. Yeah. 9 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: Apparently the yacht wars are on among the super rich 10 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: to have the coolest yacht out there. And if you've 11 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: never been to San Diego and checked out what a 12 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: yacht can be, because I didn't know what a yacht 13 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,639 Speaker 1: really could be until I saw the ones that pull 14 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: up in in San Diego. The top of the top. 15 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,759 Speaker 1: The best ones have a helicopter. Yeah, they've got a 16 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: freaking helicopter on their yacht. Just amazing. And usually they're 17 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: from some foreign land. What was the one super rich 18 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,559 Speaker 1: guy that we he's got like a yacht on his yacht. 19 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: Take him to the helicopter or something that you can't 20 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: remember got a bigger boat than you'll ever own in 21 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: your life. On top of his giant boat that takes 22 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: him to wherever with the helicopter. I don't know. I 23 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: don't even know how it worked. Yeah, yeah, well please 24 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: welcome back to the Armstrong and Getty Show. Tim the 25 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: lawyer Sanda for Tim is the Vice President for Litigation 26 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 1: with the Goldwater Institute, adjunct scholar with Cato Institute, and 27 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: the author of many fabulous books, including The Right Turn 28 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: of Living, The Permission Society, and Cornerstone of Liberty, Property 29 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: Rights in twenty Century America Again, among others. Tim, how 30 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: are you, sir? H You know, man, I don't know 31 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: how people are so rich. I still feel rich when 32 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: I go to Red Lobster for dinner. Yeah, I know, 33 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: I know, I know. How was the kid? Red Lobster 34 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: was too expensive? So nowadays, you know, I feel like 35 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: big fancy lawyer man when I go in there. I 36 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: have all about expectations, my friend. Yeah, and we're in 37 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: what you grew up with? Um? Hey, did you watch 38 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: Loki by the way? Are you and I know you're 39 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: like a Star Trek guy. You're a Simpsons guy? Are 40 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: you like a Marvel comics guy, did you watch Loki 41 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: by any chance? No? I despise comic books and all 42 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: comic book movies. I cannot stand up. I'm perfectly comfortable 43 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: with that that emotion. I just wondered if you had 44 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: seen the Simpsons version of Loki. They did like a 45 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: three minute short that is hilarious. It's on Disney. They 46 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: are typically better than the original sources. Um. So I 47 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: was reading this week, how it looks like this commission 48 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: is actually gonna happen that the Biden administration put together 49 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: to take a look at the Supreme Court and some 50 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,839 Speaker 1: possible changes to the Supreme Court. How many justice in? 51 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: You know? Immediately um, if you're if you're anti Biden 52 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: or a tide Democrat, immediately go to he's trying to 53 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 1: pack the court. But there is discussion of what's the 54 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 1: right number. It hasn't always been nine? Um. Should they 55 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: have term limits? Should you uh have rotating Supreme Court 56 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: justices with other federal courts? Of a variety of things. 57 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: What do you think is a sweet spot? What would 58 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: if you were in charge, and you were put in 59 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: charge today of how to compose the Supreme Court? What 60 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: would you do? I would leave it at nine. I 61 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: don't think there's any reason to change it. And I 62 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: think changing it, even if you really are just changing 63 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: it for non ideological reasons, it nevertheless still opens the 64 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: door changing it for ideological reasons down the road. So 65 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: I just think it's a bad idea and and there's 66 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: no reason to do it. What we really need is more. 67 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: We need the Supreme Court to take more cases, and 68 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: we need the lower courts, we need more judges there. 69 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: That that often gets ignored how important the intermediate courts, 70 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: the circuit courts of appeal, those are really really important, 71 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: and people don't really pay a lot of attention to 72 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: that because you know, the Supreme Court is always on 73 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: the news. To me, the oddest thing that happens with 74 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court is that it's just a random how 75 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: many justices any particular president our administration is going to 76 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: a point and then it has such an influence. Trump 77 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: got three, Biden might end up with zero in his 78 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: first term. Is that Are you okay with the randomness 79 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: of that? Although although and to throw it one caveat, 80 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: they regularly don't end up voting the way whatever president 81 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: thought they were going to vote exactly and that's that's crucial, 82 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: because the whole idea of the separation of powers and 83 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: an independent judiciary is that these are questions that are 84 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: supposed to be answered based on principles instead of political expediency. 85 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: That's why we have lifetime tenure, so that the judges 86 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: are not going to be swayed by temporary political arguments. 87 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: And when you boil it down, all these arguments about 88 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: expanding the court and changing it are all about politics 89 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: by people who don't accept the fact that there are 90 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: right and wrong answers in the law. This isn't just 91 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: the thing about popularity. There are things that are constitutional 92 00:04:57,839 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: even though you think they're bad ideas, and there are 93 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: things that are constitutional even though you think they're good ideas, 94 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: And the judges are there to tell us just for 95 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: the sake of the argument. A twenty year term, wouldn't 96 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: that have the same net benefit as a lifetime appointment, Yeah, 97 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: or something along those lines, like an age limit across 98 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: the board or something. People float those ideas, and I'm 99 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: not totally against it. I think if people want to 100 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: amend the Constitution just to accomplish goals like that, that's 101 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: not necessarily a bad thing. I just don't see any 102 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: point to it. I I don't think we've ever I 103 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: don't think we've had many problems with justices who stayed 104 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: to the point where their minds went. I mean, there's 105 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: been one or two, but it's never been a real 106 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: problem like that, And so I don't I'm not really 107 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: bothered by the lifetime tenure thing with the One of 108 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: the problems with a twenty year term, of course, is 109 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: then that means that when that person's term comes up, 110 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: that's all anybody talks about at the presidential election. Nobody's 111 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 1: going to talk about the other issues. So it would 112 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: have effects on politics. Not necessarily saying you can't do it, 113 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: but it just seems like it's unnecessary. To me. The 114 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: biggest problem, and we've talked about this with you before, 115 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: is that the Supreme Court has to do so much 116 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 1: that they have a lifting that Congress is supposed to do. 117 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: And I was reading that might have been something you wrote, 118 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: but I was reading something a while back on how 119 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: it used to be believed in Congress that you would 120 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: not even introduce able that was unconstitutional. You would talk 121 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: it over with your your colleagues as to whether or 122 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: not this would fly constitutionally before you you get into 123 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: the wrangling of a bill, because you swore an oath. 124 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: All everybody in Congress swears an oath to the to 125 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: the Constitution. Now, Congress regularly passes things that they know 126 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: might be unconstitutional, but they don't care. Oh, they don't 127 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: care at all. And and to the extent that they 128 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: do care, if they don't know, they don't have any 129 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: real awareness of the of what the Constitution says or 130 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: doesn't say. We all remember, now, is it ten years 131 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: ago when when Nancy Pelosi was asked, where in the 132 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: Constitution does it give the federal government to the authority 133 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: to control our health care? And her answer was are 134 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: you serious? Because she had no idea, And and of 135 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: course that that's a major problem. And that touches on 136 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: another major problem. Everybody talks about the Supreme Court, all 137 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: of the Supreme Court. We gotta be worried about judicial activism, 138 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: all the courts going out beyond its mount. Nobody ever 139 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: talks about how vastly more dangerous Congress is. Congress and 140 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: the President violate your rights every single day of your life. 141 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: The Court, at most, what the Supreme Court can really 142 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: do is step in and shut down something that you 143 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: think is a good idea. Really, I mean, there are 144 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: certainly examples of the Supreme Court or other courts going 145 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: too far and crossing the line, but by comparison to 146 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: the elected branches of government, the Supreme Court is angelic 147 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: by comparison, and people never pay attention to that because 148 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: they think, oh, well, politics, I vote for what I want. No, 149 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: this is a constitutional problem. These people take oaths to 150 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: obey and respect the Constitution of the United States, and 151 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: they typically thumb their noses at it. It's really unconstable. 152 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: Or my favorite example is President Bush signing the Bipartisan 153 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: Campaign Reformact years ago, saying that it was unconstitutional. Can 154 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: right on said this is unconstitutional, but I'm going to 155 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: sign it anyway because I'm going to trust that the 156 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: Supreme Court will do my work for me and strike 157 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: down the unconstitutional part. No, you take an oath to 158 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: support and defend the Constitution. You have an obligation to 159 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: veto a law that you think is on constitutional. And 160 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: Obama had one of those two where he regularly said, no, 161 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: I can't do this, it's un constitutional, uneath and finally 162 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: got enough pressure from his side to go ahead and 163 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: do it with an executive order. Tim stand First, the 164 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: vice president for Litigation for the gold Water Institute. Go ahead, Tim. 165 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: The obvious example that is docca right the we I 166 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: when he came out and said I can't just nullify 167 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: the nation's immigration laws. And then a few months later, 168 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: I guess what, I'm just gonna sign this thing. So 169 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: there's so many things I'd like to talk to you about, um, 170 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: but in the limit of time we have, I don't know, 171 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: can you hang around for another segment or what's your 172 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: schedule look like? All right, Tom, Well, then I have 173 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: another Supreme Court question. You alluded to the fact that 174 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court doesn't take com many cases. We ought 175 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: to pay more attention to the circuit courts. What percentages 176 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 1: circuit court cases actually make their way to the Supreme Court. 177 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: The US Supreme Court takes around eighty cases a year, 178 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: and there is about eight thousand cases that they're asked 179 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: to take. So they have a miniscule number of the 180 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: cases that they're that they are as a take. Now, 181 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: it's true, many of those are just you know, some 182 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: prisoner who writes out some frivolous thing and sends it 183 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: in the mail. But these are a lot of these 184 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: are crucial constitutional issues that the court ignores for sometimes 185 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: for decades. There's an issue that I've been trying to 186 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 1: get the Supreme Court to take for twenty years or 187 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: so now and this and and the lower courts disagree 188 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: on this issue. So you have what they call circuit split, 189 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: where the lower courts are actually in conflict with one 190 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: another and the Supreme Court just ignores it. Set the 191 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: designated hitter. If I knew what the designated hitter rule was, 192 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: I would let you, Uh, Tim Sandiford with a Goldwater Institute, 193 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: why don't we take a quick break and then come back. 194 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,599 Speaker 1: And I have so enjoyed our email conversation about socialism 195 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: and George Orwell and the problems of socialism. It wasn't 196 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: lost on my Tim, on me, Tim. And then in 197 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: the same day you text Joe some complicated or Well 198 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: versus socialism thing, but you send me an obscene Willie 199 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: Nelson joke. So I see where you know? I understand 200 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: anyway more? With Tim the lawyer sander for Tim Sanderford's 201 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: vice president for litigation with the Goldwater Institute, the author 202 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: of many fine tombs, including uh cornerstone of liberty property 203 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: rights in the twenty one century America, which I bring up, 204 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: tim because I want to talk a little bit about 205 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: economic freedom and in central planning and government distorting markets. 206 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: I mean, there have been a couple of obvious examples, 207 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: whether you know, protecting people who are delinquent on the rent, 208 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: which you might be in favor of, you might not 209 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: uh to subsidized housing too, in particular paying people lots 210 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 1: of money to stay home, the way that's distorted the 211 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: labor market. Any comments on the the enhance sut unemployment 212 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: benefits of the effects of it, it has had. No Yeah, 213 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,079 Speaker 1: it's a terrible, terrible circumstance that the government has put 214 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: us in economically. Every day you drive past rest all 215 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: these fast fud restaurants that have all these help wanted 216 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: signs out you business is closed because they don't have 217 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: any employees. My wife and I went to a restaurant 218 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,079 Speaker 1: a while back and they told us how straight out 219 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: we were, sorry, we can't see you because we don't 220 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 1: have any any waiters or anything. So the businesses are 221 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: are ready to get the engine of economics moving again, 222 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: and instead the government is paying people to to not 223 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: to not work. It's a disastrous idea. Well, you shared 224 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: with me something from I think it was the road 225 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: to serve them by hiek about what's wrong with say, 226 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 1: I don't know poor people need butter. Butter is expensive. 227 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: We're gonna impose a price cap on butter. Why isn't 228 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: that a good idea? So in in if you're going 229 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: to control the market the price of one good, that 230 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: inevitably forces you to control the rices or the market 231 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: for any other good. So if you try to put 232 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: price controls in place for butter, dairy farmers are going 233 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: to say, well, we'll find that I'm just gonna make 234 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: cheese instead. So now you have to put restrictions in 235 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: place on cheese in order to make sure that people 236 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: get enough butter. So now you put a restriction on cheese, 237 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: and the dairy farmer says, well, okay, I'm gonna sell 238 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: milk instead. Meanwhile, people who use butter or cheese in 239 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: their products, you know, cookie makers for instance, they're gonna 240 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: you know, you're gonna have they're gonna have a problem 241 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: because they can't get any butter, So their prices are 242 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: gonna go way up. Well, now you have to control 243 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: the prices of cookies on the market, and and then 244 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: the people who depend on cookies, like coffee shops, they 245 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: can't get any cookies because there's just shortage now, so 246 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: their prices are gonna go way up, and they have 247 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: to control that too. So inevitably, because the market is 248 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: so interconnected, any effort to control one area of the 249 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: market requires you to control the entire market. That's the 250 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: economic reason why socialism or government controls of any sort 251 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: inevitably tend toward totalitarian is um. It's not just that 252 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: there's some that they're as bad guys out there who 253 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 1: take over and oh, well, this isn't real socialism, and 254 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: oh it was just because Stalin was a bad guy, 255 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: or it's just because Hugo Chavis is a bad guy. 256 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:09,959 Speaker 1: But otherwise, you know, it would have worked in theory. No, 257 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: in theory, these kinds of government controls do not work 258 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: as a matter of economic law. And then how does 259 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: it turn into cautioning descent and and what would seem 260 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: to be non economic behavior. Well, because necessarily people are 261 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: going to turn to the black market if they can't 262 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: get the products and services that they need in the marketplace. 263 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: They're going to turn to the black market, and you're 264 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: going to have to control them. You're gonna have to 265 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: control what they say, because they're going to tell each other, Hey, 266 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: you know you, I know where you can get some 267 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: butter off the market for cheap, you know, So you 268 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: have to control what they say. And that's even putting 269 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: aside ideological questions and enemies of the state and the 270 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: and or the the evil motives of bad guys who 271 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: get into power and that sort of thing. Even if 272 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: you put those things aside, and those are overwhelming concerns 273 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: in any kind of society like that, you still tend 274 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: towards totalitarianism because in order to control economic behavior, you 275 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: have to control speech. You have to troll religious freedom 276 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: of people who depend on goods and services. You know, 277 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: if you're gonna if you're gonna prohibit alcohol, for instance, 278 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: what about Catholics use wine in the mass, for example. 279 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: So you're going to have to inevitably control every aspect 280 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: of individual behavior if you are really going to have 281 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: government plan your economy. So a lot of things happened 282 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: during the pandemic, and you know, to be fair, and 283 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: I think you've talked about this too, there are some 284 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: pretty tough calls to be made during the pandemic. It 285 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: was an unusual situation. But I've been talking about this 286 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: long form article I read about um. The pandemic was 287 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: the greatest transfer of wealth from small business to large business. 288 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: So many small businesses all across the country were forced 289 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: to shut their doors completely or at least severely restrict 290 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: while Walmart, Target, and Amazon made the biggest profits they've 291 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: ever made in their history selling a lot of the 292 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: same stuff. Well, this is I see two points here. 293 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: So the first one is if if the cost of 294 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: doing business necessarily goes up due to circumstances be on 295 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: anyone's control, such as a natural disaster, some businesses are 296 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: more able to absorb that cost, or deal with that cost, 297 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: or provide people with the things they need at prices, 298 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: are willing to pay more than others, and those that 299 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: can't should fail economically, and those that can should succeed economically. 300 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: On the other hand, when government comes in with a 301 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: one size fits all top down we, we bureaucrats, know 302 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: how to run things better than everybody else does. Problem, 303 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: then you don't allow the businesses to come up with 304 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: you in the interesting, unique, unusual ideas for solving the 305 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: problem that you might not have thought of otherwise. That's 306 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: the great genius of capitalism is it allows businesses to 307 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: come up with new ways of solving and addressing problems. 308 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: But when the government comes and says no, no, every 309 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: business in the in the in the county have to 310 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: shut down at ten pm or something like that, you 311 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: deprive entrepreneurs of the opportunity to come up with ways 312 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: of treating their customers safely but still getting them the 313 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: goods and services they need. Yeah. Imagine if instead of 314 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: government men dates, we'd unleashed the creativity and passions of 315 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: the American people to solve these problems in whatever industry, 316 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: whatever business. That would have been a wonderful thing to behold. Instead, 317 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: we got bureaucrats who are monomaniacally focused on COVID nineteen 318 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: to the exclusion of every single other human concern. Uh. 319 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: Tim sander Ford, Vice President for Litigation to the Goldwater Institute. 320 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: It's always so interesting, Tim, Thanks so much for your time, 321 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, guys. Absolutely yeah, that's absolutely right. 322 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: There's a big difference between a store of voluntarily closing 323 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: down because they say, you know, we just don't have 324 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: enough customers to justify having employees here and having our 325 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: lights on. Then the government making them close down, and 326 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: they didn't even have a shot at trying to see 327 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: if they could serve their customers well. And instead of 328 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: what that look like, say you've got two weeks to 329 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: figure this out, how are you going to keep your 330 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: people safe? And then watch American creativity flourish. That would 331 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: have been wonderful instead of awful.