1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: Warning. Today's Episodekenny spoilers for Foundation season three episode five. 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: Be warned. Hello, my name is Jason Cepcione and my 3 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: name's a Boot and welcome back to x ray Vision, 4 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: the podcast where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics, 5 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: and pop culture. Coming from my Heart podcast where we'll 6 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: bring you three episodes every week Tuesday Thursday, plus digging 7 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: into the summer's biggest movies every Friday, and news on Saturday. 8 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 2: Today, Jason, we are halfway through season three of Foundation, 9 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 2: and you and I are going to be talking about episode. 10 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: Five, episode five of season three Foundation, where tyrants spend 11 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: eternity and it's getting This is a great episode episode 12 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: of the Foundation television just I mean, you are the 13 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: guy who's like I need more Empire and were getting it. 14 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: So we open uh heading down into the depths of 15 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: Trantor with Day on his journey down to Micagen in 16 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: order to find his love song and her cult of 17 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: android worshippers. The vibe down here is definitely a lot 18 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: more gritty, a lot more blade Runner, a lot more 19 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: like grim dark sci fi. It's humid, it's dirtier, it's forgotten, 20 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: it's dangerous, a gang loyal to some guy named the Sun. 21 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 2: Sunmaster eighteen. That was my username in the world of 22 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: warcraft years ago. 23 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: Right right, ambush Day on his cool motorcycle that he 24 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: purloined from the Commander. Only it's not Day. It's some 25 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: dupe that Day paid to wear, you know, the armor 26 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: that he had stolen, and Day has slipped away into 27 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: the darkness. 28 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: Actually, I know this is a trope, but I love when, 29 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 2: like a character that's been set up to be an 30 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 2: idiot turns out to actually be smart, and he's just 31 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: so smart that he doesn't fall in line. He's choosing 32 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: to be one of my favorites. It's a trope and 33 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: it gets used all the time, but I'm a sucker 34 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 2: for it every time. 35 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: I completely agree with you. It's up there with one 36 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: of my other favorite tropes, which is the annoying person 37 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: who then you fall in who you're like, wait, actually 38 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: they're great, Yeah, just not annoying. They were just like, 39 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: very nervous around other people. Anyway, I agree with you, 40 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: Day eighteen. Day showing some you know, some moves that 41 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: we didn't expect from him, and then you have to 42 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: remind yourself this kind of full bachanall Day, who is 43 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: you know, smoking weed and just fully enmeshed in the 44 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: pleasures of the flesh. That's the variation. Usually Day is 45 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: like the hard nosed, strategic, ruthless leader of an empire, 46 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: and now we're seeing that starts to come out on 47 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: the surface. Demarzelle is at the crime scene, you know, 48 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 1: where Day had assassinated the commander and injected with the 49 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: nanits in order to slip away and throw demarzl and 50 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: her forces off the scent. They're pulling the commander out 51 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: of the reservoir. She realizes that the guy has days 52 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: nan nights in him, and you know, with Dawn on 53 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: his way to Clarion Station to talk to the council 54 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: and Dusk, you know, going through it as he's like 55 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: a day away from being vaporized. The cleons are just 56 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: basically all over the place, ascension days looming, and you know, 57 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: Demarzelle's lieutenant is like, what do we do? And she's like, 58 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: forget about Day, let him go. I will find out 59 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: what's going on with Don. I will pursue him. Where 60 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: is Don? Don is with Gail on Gail's ship, disorientated 61 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: from a space jump, Gael reveals that, yes, I do 62 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: have the powers of a metallic Yes, I have been 63 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: using them on you in order to get you to 64 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: agree to like work with me and kind of betray empire, 65 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: or at least for just secret alliance with second Foundation. This, 66 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: I think greatly troubles Don and should because it brings 67 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: a whole host of questions to the surface. 68 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 2: It also reveals a little bit about mentallic powers, because 69 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: Gail hints that, yes, some of it happens unintentionally, some 70 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 2: of it is like subconscious, right, she can't help, but perhaps. 71 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: She says, I tried to use I tried not to, 72 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: but it still. 73 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 2: Leaks out a little bit. I think that's a bit 74 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 2: of interesting insight into how mentallic powers maybe work, and 75 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: how the meals powers may be. 76 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: Work tied to emotion, working on the subconscious level. I 77 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,919 Speaker 1: think that's scarier in a way than someone who just 78 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: is in full control. Dawn then is like, well, I 79 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: need to I need to send a message to someone. 80 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: I need privacy. So he goes like into the storeroom 81 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 1: and tapes what is essentially an apology video, but we 82 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: do not know to whom at this time. We go 83 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: to a new Trantur. Pritchard arrives on New Trantur Or 84 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: I should ask, did you who did you think he 85 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: down was sending this tape to? At this moment, I 86 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: thought he. 87 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 2: Was actually going to send it to Demorsel in some 88 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: sort of like weird last minute show of loyalty to 89 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 2: the woman that raised him. Sort of. 90 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: I kind of thought it was that as well. We 91 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: go to a New Trantur, Pritcheard arrives and Mayor and 92 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: Burg just calls him on the carpet and Lamb bastes him. 93 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: He's like, I don't care that you make contact with 94 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: the Mule. I don't I'm not impressed with this Mallow 95 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: and Beta Gambit, not impressed that they have DJ Magnifico 96 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: with them. I'm not impressed that DJ Magnifico is very 97 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: obviously a source of valuable information about the meal. I 98 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: don't care about any of this. You disobeyed orders, you 99 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: did stuff you weren't supposed to do. I'm sending you 100 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: to the dungeons where you're like gonna be fully body scanned, 101 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: like every follicle of hair, every skin cell, like everything 102 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: from head. 103 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 3: Every which from pecks from He's incredibly sculpted God to mean, 104 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 3: what is going on? 105 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:50,799 Speaker 1: Did he have to get shredded? I'm like, hold on, Pridge, 106 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: are we don't know what's going on? What's happening here? 107 00:06:55,960 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: My guy? He looks like he's be like rushing out 108 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: of the eye formation, like you know, like hitting the 109 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: gap and like, what is going on anyway? Wow, Pritchard, 110 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: Holy shit. We go to the Mallow the Mallows. They're 111 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: on their ship. The ship is damaged, has been damaged 112 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: in the escape from the Mule. It's breaking down in 113 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: the middle of space. They only have three space jumps left, 114 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: and Magnifico won't stop playing music. It's chaotic on there. 115 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: The Malos are then forced to flee back to the Traders, 116 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: back to Haven with their ship malfunctioning. You know, they're 117 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: kind of like entering the atmosphere of Haven, and the 118 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: Traders can't hail them because their communications aren't working, so 119 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: they shoot the ship down and the Mallows crashed somewhere 120 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: out on the on the wastelands. Gale and Dawn arrive 121 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: at Clarion to talk to where Don is meeting with 122 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: the council. Gale is is messing around with the mysterious vial. 123 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: She's like playing with a little vial like on the floor, 124 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: and Don is like, what's that And she's like, oh, 125 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: this is a zygote of someone close to I'm like, Gayle, 126 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: you fucking weirdo. And she's like, well, it's my daughter, 127 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: who we know to be Salvor Harden, who is dead 128 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: now these two hundred plus years or something like that. 129 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: It's been a minute. And she's talking about like this 130 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: kind of hinting at this complex relationship she has with 131 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: Salvor and the fact that she never really got to 132 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: know her, and that she as a way to comfort herself, 133 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: she will take out this zygote and kind of gaze 134 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: at it down then tells Gail about Vinad Tarisk, who 135 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 1: is a representative of like a nearby sector to Kalgan, 136 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: and they need his vote in order for Dawn to 137 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: get the enclosure put around Kalgan. Right, they're gonna, they're gonna. 138 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: He's to propose this measure that is extremely draconian and 139 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: hasn't been done since like Cleon the seventeenth did it, 140 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: you know, back in the day to foundation one and 141 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:14,079 Speaker 1: it turned out terrible for empire. And he knows that 142 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: political sport is gonna be touchy. So they planned to 143 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: blackmail Terrorisk by essentially creating evidence, planting evidence that he 144 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: has been taking money right in order to like look 145 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: the other way on various issues right exactly. Dawn apparently 146 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: is going to have to go in and plant the 147 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: evidence himself, and Gail will do her thing. During this time. 148 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: He's like, well, aren't you worried about cameras and the 149 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: security forces. She's like, I'm like hundreds of years old. 150 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: My image exists in no database, and I can erase 151 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: people's minds. Really, don't worry about it. Yeah, this was 152 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: a really I love this subplot because it was like 153 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: a Born movie, like a mini Born movie. Inside of Foundation. 154 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: I liked it a lot too, and I particularly I 155 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 2: liked when down in response to something that Gail said, 156 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 2: I think Gayle said something like, are you gonna be 157 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 2: okay doing this? Like are you? Are you good? And 158 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 2: Don's response is Cleon's aren't raised to be nice? Blackmail 159 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 2: is what we do. 160 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 1: I was raised to do exactly this. 161 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 2: Actually, I'm totally fine. 162 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: I know exactly how to do this. The Clarion authorities 163 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: scan Gail and Don ship it all comes up fine. 164 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: Of course, one of Gail's agents, Zara, gives Don a 165 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: gun and he's like, do I need this? He's like, 166 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: She's like yes. They then re enact the train sequence 167 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: seed from The Born Supremacy, with Don like moving through 168 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: the station in Gail calling the plays from a control room. However, 169 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: when Dawn gets to tarisks beautiful, Oh my goodness, yeah wow, 170 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: light filled home beautiful, he gets into the home and 171 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: he's like in the middle of like playing the USB 172 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: like into his terminal. Terra's like comes out of the showers, 173 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: like wet from the showers. It's like, Empire, what are 174 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: you doing at my computer? Can you imagine? 175 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 3: Shit? What? 176 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 2: I honestly a pretty palm reaction all things considered. 177 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: Could you imagine wild? That would be like if you 178 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: woke up and like jd Vance was at your laptop, 179 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: like what. 180 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 3: Yeah? 181 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:35,719 Speaker 1: Like what the fuck? So Terra's I think, takes it 182 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: really in stride, like he is not. He is shocked, 183 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: but I would be like flabbery asted, and Dawn, now 184 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: caught red handed, essentially has to bring the hammer down immediately. 185 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: He's like, listen, evidence proves the mule bribed you. We 186 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: know about it. We're gonna let everybody know about it. 187 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: Now back my enclosure move or el and Tarre's is like, well, 188 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: but my family, you know, my family's going to be 189 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: inside the enclosure. All of these things that are you know, 190 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: obviously very natural to bring up. And so Terris pitches 191 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: an option. How about I tell the council that I 192 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: got blackmailed and then we see what happens. Empires not 193 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: very popular right now, you know, the councils kind of 194 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: flexing their muscles and they might like some evidence like this. 195 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: So then Don's like, okay, that's interesting. What if, like 196 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:36,959 Speaker 1: you die? What if I have you killed dog? Did 197 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: I bury the lead? Do this? I kill you? And 198 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: so to put a perfect button on the threat, Donland 199 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: hears like a sound elsewhere in the home and he 200 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: discovers terrorists like mistress in hiding in the shower and 201 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: she's heard it clearly hurt every there, talking a foot 202 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: from the closet. So like she's hurt it all, Don 203 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: just cold bloodedly killed. Oh my god. And then since 204 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 1: the terrorist take care of this, I'll see you with 205 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: the council. 206 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 2: Oh my god. Don truly at his best. This was 207 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 2: an amazing scene. 208 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: Whoa I mean I didn't. I didn't. I really did 209 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: not think he had this kind of thing in him. 210 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 2: But no I didn't. 211 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: The Cleons clearly do they do this was that was 212 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: that was incredible? 213 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 2: Also terrorist, What what again about that family you're so 214 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 2: concerned about? 215 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: Because is this? 216 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 2: Is this a cousin in your closet? 217 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: Who's this in your closet? Dress? Right? My, my, my 218 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 1: cousin came to shower with the thing we do here 219 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 1: at the council, Dawn makes his presentation arguing for enclosure. 220 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: Everyone's like, this is barbaric. Not since Cleon's seventeen and 221 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: the Battle of the First Foundation has this ever been done. 222 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: Then It was a disaster then, And Don's like, okay, 223 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: it's been a while, but like you know, it's the 224 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: only thing that we have right now. And this is 225 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: different because this is not imperial territory and therefore legally 226 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: it should be fine. Don makes a very effective speech. 227 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: The council calls on terrisk, and Terrisk is like, well, 228 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: I say, Don's making a lot of sense. The mule 229 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: is a danger. We got to contain him. I don't 230 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: know what to tell you, Like I know, I've said 231 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: things to the contrary on different occasions, but I've this 232 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: is how I feel. He then points out, and by 233 00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: the way, you should my words carry weight because my family, 234 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: my wife and child, who I love very dearly, and 235 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: I'm so dedicated, they will be within the enclosure. And 236 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: therefore you know I've got skin in the game. Yeah, 237 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: so the motion passes. We go back to Haven. The 238 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: Trader first responders rescue the mallows. Beta and Torn then 239 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: hang out with Uncle Rondu, who is kind of like 240 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: the the older more Traders. He's very much a believer 241 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: in the trader ideology, Yes, and he is certainly on 242 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: that team, believing that the trader's right to to buy 243 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: and sell freely across the galaxy has been impinged unfairly 244 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: by Foundation, and it's only right that the traders, who 245 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: have been the economic engine of Foundation should break away 246 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: and do their own thing. Consider that this relationship with 247 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: Foundation is now exploitive. He believes that deeply. So they're 248 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: hanging out, they're having these kinds of conversations about the 249 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: trader's political perspective. Randu admits to Beta that the traders 250 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: are in the middle of undeclared civil war basically against Foundation. 251 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: And Randu is also pissed that they kidnapped Magnifico from 252 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: the Mule and then brought him to Haven, now implicating 253 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: them in this scheme and potentially bringing down the ire 254 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: of the Mule against them. They're trying to forge a 255 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: completely third path, separate from Foundation, from Empire, from Mule, 256 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: from everybody. They just want to make money. They don't 257 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: want to deal with all this shit right exactly. Beta 258 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: and Torn want Randu to help them bring Magnifico to 259 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: New Terminus, so like, hey, you can wash your hands 260 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: of this. Let's just get Magnifico to New Terminus, right 261 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: to Foundation, second Foundation, and we'll and then that's it 262 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: right right later, Torn hangs out with Magnifico, who doesn't 263 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: like the cold weather, and Magnifico is like just like 264 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: a little kid. He's like doing handsprings in the lobby 265 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: of the building. He's blown away by the sight of 266 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: a sunrise on a different planet, and he starts like 267 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: playing music on his Bluetooth speaker in the hopes that 268 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: it will help Beta kind of swing Rando to their side. 269 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 1: Because Beta Beta is more certainly the one with more charm, 270 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: and she is trying to give its Randu to help 271 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: them with this scheme to bring Magnifico to Yeah, Terminus. 272 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 2: I really like to throw away line from Magnifico here 273 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 2: where he says something like, if you're going to toss 274 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 2: me over the balcony, at least do it on the 275 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 2: suns side. And I thought that was really cool, just 276 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 2: scene setting for this Trader city and the Trader planet 277 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 2: of Haven, because we know the sun is extremely dangerous, 278 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 2: but on the shade side it's also cold and dreary, 279 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 2: and we see like they happen to be. It must 280 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 2: be like midday or something. It's like split right down 281 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 2: the middle. It's split right in the middle. It's so cool. 282 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 2: And he crosses over to the Sun's side and that's 283 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 2: where he watches the sun and starts playing. I thought 284 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 2: it was just very early since setting, very sci fi. 285 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: I also love this character. It's nice to just have 286 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: a character who's like space is amazing, Like this is wonderful, 287 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: Like we're having adventures. Yes, I've been kidnapped, but like, look, 288 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: I'm on a different planet and how crazy is this. 289 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a bit of a theory to share 290 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 2: about Magnifico at the end. 291 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: Okay, so Beta basically her pitches. Listen, you get to 292 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: know your nephew better on the trip, and who knows 293 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: what kind of information Magnifico might have that could benefit 294 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 1: the traders. We don't know where the mules been them. 295 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: You might have been all around the galaxy and maybe 296 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: you can open up some new markets. The Imperial armada 297 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 1: approaches Kalgan to perform the enclosure day in the Council, 298 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: they're all watching like on the in the control room, 299 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: desays Foundation and Empire should on this a long time ago, 300 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: but here we are, we're doing it now. Tarisk flees 301 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: to his apartment. He's like having real second thoughts considering 302 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: that now it's like happening and his family. Yeah, who 303 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: is actually going to be trapped in this enclosure with 304 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: this like genocidal pirate. The mule appears on the video 305 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 1: screen and he's like, oh, Calgan, nice place. I'm not there. 306 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: What he thought I was still there? Uh? Oh, you've 307 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: fallen into my trap. That's right. I used a cobalt 308 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: spike to blow up the jump gate and the planet, 309 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: and so the jump gate goes bye bye. All the 310 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: Imperial ships in the vicinity are like destroyed, or heavily damaged, 311 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: and the planet of Kalgan is immolated, along with Tarisk's 312 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: family and everybody else that was there. The mule is loose. 313 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: Jump gates all across space now go offline, and Gale 314 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: and Dawn immediately have to flee the mule. I guess 315 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: knew that this was happening somehow, must have a spy 316 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: in the Council or somewhere else. Gayle then uses her 317 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: powers to you know, help Dawn escape and then Zero 318 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: shows up and they make good their getaway. Meanwhile, on Trantor, 319 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: Dusk gets a type beam message from Dawn and this 320 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 1: is who Dawn was sending the message to, basically apologizing about, 321 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: you know, everything that happened and kind of explaining his 322 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 1: what he's doing right now. And we hear this over 323 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: the visual of Dawn, you know, fleeing from the Council 324 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: headquarters and fleeing from the planet. He's like going making 325 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 1: his way up to the shell of the planet in 326 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: order to escape. He tells Dusk like, I'm so sorry 327 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: I won't be there for your ascension. Gail admits that 328 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,719 Speaker 1: then this is crazy. Now is Gail going to like 329 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: even Harry Sheldon Harry Seldon. This is Harry Seldon like 330 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: levels of what the fuck are you doing, Gail. So 331 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: Gail then admits to Day to Dawn, excuse me. She 332 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: knew the Mule would do this, that it would likely 333 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: be a trap, and that the Mule would react in 334 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: this way, and she wanted it to happen because she 335 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: believes that, looking at the data, the only way to 336 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: fully take on the Mule is to strengthen Foundation, because 337 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: the Empire is into tattered to state to do it, 338 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: and the only way to fully strengthen Foundation is to 339 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 1: weaken Empire enough so that the Council and all the 340 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: other players in the galaxy look to Foundation as the 341 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: only way to fight the Mule. So that's why she 342 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: had to basically cut the legs out from Empire down. 343 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: Says basically like, well, why would I help you anymore 344 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: if you're not gonna if this is how our relationship 345 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: is going to come, which is fair? Fair to do that, right, 346 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: I think? Because now this is really the episode where 347 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: you're meant to be like, am I all in on? Gail? 348 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: Like I'm not. I'm not sure. Don cuts The communication 349 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: turns around A task is there, which by the Way 350 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: shouts to Terrorisk for I don't even know how he 351 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: could have followed down, but sure, so that needs we 352 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 1: need to think about that. Terrask then uh, I think 353 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,959 Speaker 1: it might have been maybe there's something cool. Maybe Terisk 354 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: then shoots with his eyes closed because he can't like 355 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: even bring himself to with his eyes open, shoot the 356 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: man who like ordered the death of his family, and uh, 357 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: and it destroys the airlock. Donn is sucked out, probably dies, 358 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: but maybe not. And you know, Dusk is listening. We 359 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: cut back the Dusk as he's was listening to the 360 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: end of the message and he's crying. Then Gail gets 361 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: on her ship. Who Gail, who is on the ship 362 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: realizes that someone has arrived on the ship. She thinks, oh, 363 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: don made it. It's de Marzelle, Who's like, oh Gail Dornick, 364 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: what's up? It's been a minute. This show is getting crazy? Okay, 365 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: So wow, how do you feel about Gail now? Because 366 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: I certainly, as as we said, this is the moment 367 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: where you're meant to think, do we are we all 368 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: in them? Gail? Like, is this the right way to 369 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: do things? And even if you knew what the future was, 370 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: this seems too ruthless to be right like this. How 371 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: can you say that this isn't causing more problems than 372 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: just letting thing take its course, you know, like, I 373 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: don't know. How do you feel about Gail right now? 374 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 2: Two things I want to say. One, I really want 375 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 2: to applaud the writers for not over telegraphing this. I 376 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 2: was genuinely caught off guard saying that Gail did this, 377 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 2: and it really wasn't until we were in the air 378 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 2: lock putting the helmet on and Gail was kind of 379 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 2: being weird on the phone, where I was like, wait 380 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 2: a second, don't tell me that she wanted this to happen, 381 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 2: And then she says she wanted this to happen. So 382 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,479 Speaker 2: props to the writers really well constructed a genuine twist 383 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 2: that I did not see coming. As far as Gail 384 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 2: herself goes, and what I think about Gail at this point, 385 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 2: I'm very team Dawn. I thought the end of this episode, 386 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 2: the fat the last like ten minutes was like so 387 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 2: packed with emotion, between the voicemail message to Dusk and 388 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 2: Don's escape and the mule blowing up an entire planet, 389 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 2: a lot of high emotion happening and I think what's 390 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 2: interesting is much like Harry Selden, I think Gail is 391 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 2: like too lost in the sauce of the math, and 392 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 2: I think she like it's all math and pursus. 393 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: She's got Harry disease now. 394 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 2: Yes, And I think the problem is when you look 395 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 2: at something from such a high level from psychohistory, right, 396 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 2: you forget that there are human beings with feelings doing this, 397 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 2: and like, yes, you can manipulate Dawn, but to a 398 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 2: certain extent. Before he's going you're gonna get like an 399 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 2: emotional reaction and he's gonna lash back at you. He's 400 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 2: not just gonna fall in mind because you say this 401 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,199 Speaker 2: is what the math shows. You need to make the 402 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 2: emotional appeal. You can't just make the logical appeal. And 403 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 2: I think that's where Gail is maybe losing sight of 404 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 2: the plot a little bit. 405 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, I found it. This is gonna sound harsh, but 406 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: the moment, the scene with Gail and her baby, you know, 407 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:03,239 Speaker 1: the zygote of it struck me a little bit as like, 408 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 1: you know, Hitler loved his dog kind of thing. Because 409 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: because she then will go on to order a man 410 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: to like goople blackmail a guy to essentially put into 411 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: motion the death of his own family, which he doesn't know, 412 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: and she does along with the how many like billions, billions, millions, 413 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: one hundred million, like the whole entire planet plus the fleet. 414 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: And she does this while simultaneously like communing with the 415 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: memory of her daughter that who she didn't know, and 416 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: and and musing on that personal connection. It was like, 417 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: it truly is like this is like monstrous shit, and 418 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: it did lead me. I think this is one of 419 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: the most fascinating questions at the heart of this story 420 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: is what if the cure is worse than to the disease, 421 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:08,360 Speaker 1: And I maybe it is like, you know, maybe things 422 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: are gonna be bad, but like at least you didn't 423 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: make them happen, you know. And we're at the point 424 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: now where Gail has a billion bodies on her head. 425 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how many people lived on Calgim, 426 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: but let's say it's like Earth, so like five billion, 427 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 1: little less pleasure planet, so not densely populated, right, call 428 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: it five She's not got five billion lives directly on 429 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: her head and is probably not too troubled about it 430 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: because she's got to go a lot further in order 431 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: to successfully take on the Mule, and after this episode, 432 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: I am less convinced. I've been fully on board. I've 433 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: been fully on board. And I'm not saying the Mule 434 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: is a good guy. Clearly a monster and terrible, yes, 435 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: but I am I I'm like, I don't know, Gail, 436 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: And I also think Foundation was kind of predicated on 437 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: what's happening. Is like, look at the truth. This is 438 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 1: the truth of what's happening. It's so terrible that we 439 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: have to do something. And to me, if you have 440 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: to lie about it, if you have to lie about 441 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: what you're doing to get the outcome, then then I can't. 442 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: I'm not sure I ride with you, right, do you 443 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: think that? What do you think in terms of like, yes, 444 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: please sure? 445 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 2: The thorny I mean, the icky part of it is 446 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 2: that Harry has been lying this entire time about Yeah, 447 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 2: the entire time to this, the entire foundation, right, nobody 448 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 2: even knows second Foundation exists. That's like a that's a 449 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 2: secret behind the scenes group that he's formed to pull 450 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 2: the strings of the group. He already manipulated to go 451 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 2: out to Terminus and make Foundation. You know, he has 452 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 2: been manipulating people this whole time. That kind of seems 453 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 2: part and parcel with this job. Like, if you are 454 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 2: going to be the Harry Selden Profit, if you're going 455 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 2: to predict the future, you are constantly manipulating and lying 456 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 2: to people, even when you are telling them the hard truths. 457 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 2: And I think Gail now has to step into those 458 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 2: shoes and do some of that. And like, here's the thing, Like, 459 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 2: I mean, I love questions like this because there's no 460 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 2: clear cut answers. But is five billion now on Colgan 461 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 2: a trade off for five trillion later in a thousand years? 462 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 2: Is that the math that Gail is doing. 463 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: I think clearly that's the math she's doing. That's the 464 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: math Harry has been doing from the beginning. Right, the 465 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: dark ages are going to be so terrible. If we 466 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: can cut that time down, Yeah, trillion, large lives saved 467 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: by a large fraction, We're going to save lives. Okay, 468 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: I'm with you. I think my problem is in light 469 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: of in light of these lies foisted on people now, 470 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: the fact that the math keeps changing, yes, becomes even 471 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: more It's not like Harry ran the numbers and the 472 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: numbers of the numbers, and they keep saying the same thing, 473 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: and it's and it's unfolding exactly. It's Hey, every time 474 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: you wake up, Gail, shit's going off the rails in 475 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: a way that we didn't know about. And also you 476 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: shouldn't be here, So like, what plan and what reality 477 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: are we even living in, right and what future are 478 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: we actually trying to avoid? Like does anybody know anything 479 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: at this point? And I would argue kind of, no, 480 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: I would argue, no, nobody knows what they're doing at 481 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: this point. No. 482 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 2: And this, I think really illuminates the Pritch Gail conversation 483 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 2: from last episode, where Pritch is like, I don't know, man, 484 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: do we have to kill the mule? Do we have 485 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 2: to do what's happening in your visions? Because it feels 486 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 2: like we can change things. And I think like that 487 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 2: conversation now feels even more powerful in the context of 488 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 2: what happens in this episode, because yeah, like it feels 489 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 2: like our choices are still our choices, and at some 490 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 2: point we have to choose to make the decision that 491 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 2: feels right and maybe not the one that the math 492 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 2: tells us. And I think Gail is too married to 493 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 2: the math. 494 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: I have another question for you. I agree, Gail is 495 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: very married to the mass, She's married to the mission, 496 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: and I don't think there's any way. I don't think 497 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: there's actually any evidence you could face her with that 498 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: could make her be like, Okay, this was a mistake. Yeah, 499 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: Can someone who is living for hundreds of years actually 500 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: connect on a personal level with a person with a 501 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: normal lifespan? I love this question because I'm going to 502 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: say no, that you actually can. You actually your ambitions, 503 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: your goals, the things you are worried about are so 504 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: drastically different from those of the day to day concerns 505 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: of a person who's going to live a normal lifespan 506 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: that I think. I think that your mission is like 507 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: at that point, kind of antithetical to everyone who is 508 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: alive in a normal way. And I just don't think she, 509 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: or Harry or even the Cleons like they've fallen into 510 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: the trap of the Cleons. Yes, yes, can can? I 511 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: don't think they can actually understand what people are going through? 512 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: Do you think that that is? 513 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 2: I completely agree. I think you're spot on, and this 514 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 2: this is one of my favorite questions in sci fi 515 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 2: right because Doctor Manhattan has this same problem. He loses 516 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 2: connection to his humanity, not to get to doune about it. 517 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 2: But the god Emperor also has this problem because the 518 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 2: God Emperor lives for three thousand plus years and loses 519 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 2: this connection to humanity because of that time difference. You're 520 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 2: absolutely correct, and I think there's even data to support 521 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 2: this on a very very small scale, Like there are 522 00:32:53,960 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 2: studies that prove that as wealth increases, empathy decreases. Time 523 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 2: is also wealth, And if you have infinite time, or 524 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 2: if you have such a longer amount of time than 525 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 2: everyone else around you, then everyone else's problems start feeling 526 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 2: really really small and kind of pointless in the larger 527 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 2: scheme of things. And so I think there is this 528 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 2: like very interesting psychological drift that happens when you are 529 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 2: so different from the people around you, like Gail Is 530 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 2: and like Harry and specifically the Kleons also, you know, 531 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 2: like people are not people to them. I think that's 532 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 2: a really excellent question, Jason, and you're spot on. I agree. 533 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: Final question, are we going to find out that Harry 534 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: and Gayale are the bad guys? 535 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 2: I mean, I just this is maybe a time, this 536 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 2: is maybe when I'll share my magnifico theory. Then yeah, yeah, please, 537 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 2: I don't know Again, it's hard to make assumptions based 538 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 2: off where the book goes because we are in such 539 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 2: a dramatically different timeline basically, But here's the thought based 540 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 2: off of what happens in the book. So I mentioned 541 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 2: a couple episodes to go to you in Rosie that 542 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,479 Speaker 2: Magnifico in the book is actually just the name that 543 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 2: the Mule goes by. It's when he's incognito. He doesn't 544 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 2: want people to know he's the Mule. He pretends to 545 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 2: be Magnifico, the clown. I can't say that this is 546 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,240 Speaker 2: an original thought for me. I saw this on Reddit 547 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 2: last night. But there are theories out there that we're 548 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 2: about to see us switch through this season, that Magnifico 549 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 2: is the Mule, and the mule Mule is just like 550 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 2: a nobody, that Magnifico is controlling with the music, and 551 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 2: that Magnifico let himself get caught by Mallow and Beta 552 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 2: on purpose to get close to Foundation to you know, 553 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 2: like this is all a long con. And I read 554 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,399 Speaker 2: that theory and I was like, oh my god, because 555 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 2: that aligns with the book. You know, that kind of 556 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 2: honors the original book and would be such a great 557 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 2: twist this season if that happens. 558 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that would be amazing. I'm like, now, holy. 559 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,320 Speaker 2: Shit, right now you have to re examine every Mule 560 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 2: scene from this episode, from last episode like that. That 561 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 2: would I would love for that to happen. I don't 562 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,800 Speaker 2: know if that's where we're headed, but now it feels 563 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 2: like it now I can't not see it. 564 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: I mean, it's It would be an absolutely incredible twist 565 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 1: and would I mean, listen, every side of this conflict 566 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: right now is has a plan inside the plan. There's 567 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: a plan that most people know about. Yeah, and then 568 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: there's the plan that the leadership and maybe just like 569 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: one or two people in the leadership are actually doing. 570 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 2: Yeah. 571 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: And the Mule doesn't have any close confidants. But this 572 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: would be an amazing plan within a plan. 573 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so too. Great TV. 574 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: Wow, great TV. This Foundation season three is it's really 575 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: getting very very deep. Yeah. Well, coming up on x 576 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: RA Vision, we're talking about X men, we're talking about 577 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 1: weapons in theaters near you soon and more. That's it 578 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:03,359 Speaker 1: for this episode than you're listening to. X ray Vision 579 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight and is 580 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart podcasts. Our executive producers are Joel 581 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 1: Monique and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar. 582 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: Our producers are Common, Laurent, Dean Jonathan and Bay Wag. 583 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme 584 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman. Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, 585 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: Kenny Goodman and Heidi our discord moderator.