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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: This past weekend, I had the opportunity to interview US

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Speaker 2: Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen at the Texas Tribune Festival in Austin, Texas.

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Speaker 2: Conversation took place at Saint David's Episcopal Church. If someone

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Speaker 2: ha said to me, you're gonna interview the Treasury sectary

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Speaker 2: and a church, but not, I have been on my not

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Speaker 2: have been on my bingo card. As you probably know,

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Speaker 2: Yellen has held a lot of important jobs over the

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Speaker 2: past few decades. Former Federal Reserve Chair, chief Economic Advisor

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Speaker 2: to President Clinton as well and along the way President

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Speaker 2: the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco. The accolades are

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Speaker 2: many of the cv is long. In other words, Yellen

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Speaker 2: is someone who knows a lot about what's going on

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Speaker 2: in the US economy. So I began by asking her

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Speaker 2: a really tough question, and let's create a little contrary.

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Speaker 2: Let's have a hard conversation. How was the burger? The

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Speaker 2: burger in question was from Waburger. I noticed that a

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Speaker 2: lot of Treasury Secretary of Janet Yellen's travels feature food

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Speaker 2: in and out in California, a meal with magic mushrooms

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Speaker 2: in China. Someone had posted a photo of yellin at Waburger,

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Speaker 2: and I needed to know how Texas's favorite fast food

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Speaker 2: chain stacked up.

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Speaker 3: They're both terrific in different ways, and loved Africa. It

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Speaker 3: was excellent.

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Speaker 2: I promise my editor would make some headlines here today.

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Speaker 3: We're going to try to barbecue before we leave that excellent.

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna let that.

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Speaker 2: Go by spoiler alert. I did not, in the end

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Speaker 2: get Franklin barbecue with Janet Yellen, but I did get

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Speaker 2: to ask her a lot of questions. Questions you might

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Speaker 2: have two about the state of the economy, about US

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Speaker 2: China relations, about a controversial takeover of US steel, and

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Speaker 2: what Yellen hopes to accomplish before she leaves her post.

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Speaker 2: Today on the podcast the seventy eighth Treasury Secretary Janet

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Speaker 2: Yellen on everything from inflation to who does her taxes.

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Speaker 2: I'm David Gerrat, and this is the big take from

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg News. My conversation with Janet Yellen on Saturday came

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Speaker 2: on the heels of the August jobs report, which showed

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Speaker 2: that the US economy added one hundred and forty two

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Speaker 2: thousand jobs last month. That marks a significant slowdown. It

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Speaker 2: was less than Wall Street expected, and it's a sign

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Speaker 2: the US economy could be headed toward a recession. So

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Speaker 2: I started by asking the Secretary what she made of

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Speaker 2: that report.

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Speaker 3: Clearly, the pace of job creation has gone down, and

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Speaker 3: that's something we should expect. The unemployment rate has moved

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Speaker 3: up somewhat off it's very low level of I think

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Speaker 3: it got down to three point four percent, but it's

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Speaker 3: not common in the United States to have unemployment rates

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Speaker 3: in the force, and it's what I think of is

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Speaker 3: a full employment economy.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing continue decent.

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Speaker 3: Pace of hiring, fewer job openings, a lot fewer, but

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Speaker 3: there was an enormous amount of disruption in the labor

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Speaker 3: market we saw during the pandemic. So the labor market

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Speaker 3: is less hot than it was in the hiring frenzy

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Speaker 3: that took place as the economy opened up after the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: But one hundred and forty.

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Speaker 3: Thousand jobs, this is what you expect in an economy

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Speaker 3: where you don't have a lot of unemployment and jobs

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Speaker 3: need to be created for new entrance to the labor force.

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Speaker 3: So nobody knows exactly what that magic number is. What

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Speaker 3: do you need to see in terms of monthly job

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Speaker 3: creation to hold the unemployment rate steady. But my guess

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Speaker 3: is we're seeing something in that region. And I think

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Speaker 3: this is what most people would call a soft landing,

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Speaker 3: a soft landing.

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Speaker 2: This is the thing the Federal Reserve, under Yellen's successor J. Powell,

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Speaker 2: has been trying desperately to accomplish to slow down the

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Speaker 2: economy enough to get inflation under control, but not so

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Speaker 2: much so that it tips into a recession. I pushed

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Speaker 2: Yellen further on whether she's confident we're there, we're getting there.

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Speaker 1: I think what.

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Speaker 3: We're seeing now is consistent with that, and you know,

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Speaker 3: while there are risks, it really has been amazing to

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Speaker 3: be able to get inflation down as meaningfully as we have.

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Speaker 2: Secretary Yellen did tell me she's keeping an eye out

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Speaker 2: for certain things. One of them is if LAYO increased dramatically.

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Speaker 2: She also said she's particularly sensitive to the stress rising

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Speaker 2: prices place on everyone, but especially on low income households.

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Speaker 2: But overall, Yellen seems confident in how the US economy

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Speaker 2: is doing. So I asked her about the rest of

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Speaker 2: the world, and about China in particular. You know, I

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Speaker 2: look at what you've done as Tressury secretary. You've approached

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Speaker 2: in a kind of like a diplomat. Treasury secretary is

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Speaker 2: a diplomat. And I want to start by asking you

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Speaker 2: about your experience on US China relations. And so I

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Speaker 2: didn't go on the trip with you there that you

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Speaker 2: took to China, but I followed the coverage of it,

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Speaker 2: and aside from the five thousand articles about the magic

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Speaker 2: mushrooms that may have been on the meal that you

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Speaker 2: that you ate there, she don't have to address here,

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Speaker 2: and you've dressed that funny, there was this other thread

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Speaker 2: that came out, and that is you were able to

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Speaker 2: carry a tough message to your counterparts, and they seem to,

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Speaker 2: if not like you, hear you out spend time with you.

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Speaker 2: These meetings, as they often do when you meet with

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Speaker 2: counterparts in China, last almost days, they last hours. And

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Speaker 2: I was thinking of something that I saw Alan Blinder,

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Speaker 2: or your former colleague at the FED say about you,

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Speaker 2: and that is Janet Yellen makes an argument on the

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Speaker 2: merits and she sticks with it, and she's good at

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Speaker 2: articulating an argument in a way that doesn't leave people

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Speaker 2: on the other side hopping mad at her. What is

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Speaker 2: your secret as you think of embracing this role as

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Speaker 2: a diplomat, What has made you particularly i'll say particularly

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Speaker 2: good or have the.

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Speaker 1: Facility for well, thank you for the compliment. I've seen.

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Speaker 3: This sort of diplomatic initiative, both with China and with

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Speaker 3: other countries as really critical because we need to work

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Speaker 3: together collaboratively to solve every global problem that we face,

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Speaker 3: from climate change to Russia's aggression, to issues that we

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Speaker 3: have with China. And during the previous administration, I'm sorry

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Speaker 3: to say, our alliance is fred and you know, it

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Speaker 3: was America first, and that should really never be America alone.

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Speaker 3: And it was necessary to rebuild alliances to work with

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Speaker 3: allies around the world. And that's been a broad that's

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Speaker 3: been a broad effort, and I think we really have succeeded.

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Speaker 2: Do you foresee going back there as Treasury Secretary? Do

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Speaker 2: you need to go back there?

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Speaker 3: I certainly may go back there. I you know, would

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Speaker 3: welcome a visit by my Chinese counterpart.

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Speaker 2: Something else I was curious to ask Secretary Yelling about

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Speaker 2: is a story that's been in the headlines a lot recently.

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Speaker 2: That's the takeover of US Steel by Nippon Steele, the

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Speaker 2: Japanese company. Bloomberg supported President Biden plans to block the

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Speaker 2: four point one billion dollar deal, and Vice President Harris

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Speaker 2: has also spoken out against it.

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Speaker 4: US Steel is an historic American company, and it is

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Speaker 4: vital for our nation to maintain strong American steel companies.

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Speaker 4: And I couldn't agree more with President Biden. US Steel

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Speaker 4: should remain American owned, an American.

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Speaker 2: Operator, And in a rare moment of partisan unity, former

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Speaker 2: President Donald Trump has said he also opposes the merger.

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Speaker 2: Well Yellen haads a committee that reviews deals like this

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Speaker 2: one to make sure there are no risks to US

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Speaker 2: national security. And even though the Committee on Foreign Investment

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Speaker 2: in the United States or SIPHIUS, operates under a shroud

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Speaker 2: of secrecy, I wanted to see if she'd say anything

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Speaker 2: about the US Steel deal. I hope she might be

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Speaker 2: willing to give me a sense of the timetable, at least.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to comment on the specifics. I I

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Speaker 3: will say is that foreign direct investment in the United

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Speaker 3: States is really important and by and large has been

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Speaker 3: a huge positive for US, and it is a priority

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Speaker 3: to maintain an open and healthy environment for foreign countries

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Speaker 3: to invest in the United States, just as we're investing

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Speaker 3: in many countries around the world. So that is the

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Speaker 3: positive value. On the other hand, foreign investment in the

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Speaker 3: United States can impose national security concerns.

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Speaker 2: Hey, I tried coming up after the break. Do you

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Speaker 2: do your own taxes? I've always wondered, are you?

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Speaker 1: For most of my life?

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Speaker 2: I have, But it's gotten complicated.

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Speaker 3: It's got a little more complicated. But most of my

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Speaker 3: life I've been to do it yourself.

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Speaker 2: I ask Secretary yelling about taxes and tax cheats and

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Speaker 2: what's left on her to do list in the final

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Speaker 2: months of President Biden's tenure.

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Speaker 5: Well, welcome, welcome to receive and control. You can smell

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Speaker 5: the paper, all right.

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Speaker 2: I decided to ask Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen about her

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Speaker 2: taxes because she'd made time on her trip to Texas

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Speaker 2: to visit a huge IRS processing facility in Austin. The

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Speaker 2: day before my interview. I tagged along with her as

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Speaker 2: she met with workers at the site. Yellen greeted hundreds

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Speaker 2: of them in a cafeteria that, during the pandemic, was

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Speaker 2: filled with paper the processing center couldn't keep up.

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Speaker 5: Prior to this year, we were operating Malsartia machines over

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Speaker 5: twenty years twenty years old, so very aged equipment. I

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Speaker 5: used to call the technicians of those old machines mcgiver

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Speaker 5: right because they were so aged we couldn't even get

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Speaker 5: parts for them.

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Speaker 2: But now, as a result of the eighty billion dollars

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Speaker 2: that have been allocated to the IRS under President Biden's

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Speaker 2: Inflation Reduction Act, workers told Yellen the situation is much different.

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Speaker 5: Earlier this year, we were able to purchase new machines

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Speaker 5: and install them, and that's what you see here in

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Speaker 5: all of our processing sites. They actually run the mill faster,

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Speaker 5: the sorting's more accurate. We're still learning to operate them

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Speaker 5: a little bit, but much much improvement and definitely thank

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Speaker 5: you to IRA Funds to be able to do all sorts.

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Speaker 2: Secretary Yellen got to see demonstrations of those new machines.

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Speaker 2: Tax enforcement has been one of her key priorities at Treasury,

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Speaker 2: and she told me at the end of that visit

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Speaker 2: before she and her staff got lunch at another Texas institution,

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Speaker 2: a Mexican restaurant called one in a Million that she's

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Speaker 2: been pleased of late, with the.

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Speaker 6: Results something like one point three billion collected from very

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Speaker 6: high income, high wealth people who either haven't paid their

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Speaker 6: taxes or who have been assessed taxes and have unpaid bills.

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Speaker 2: One point three billion collected from high income people. That's

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Speaker 2: a significant improvement from twenty nineteen, when the top one

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Speaker 2: percent of wealthy Americans owed more than one fifth of

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Speaker 2: all unpaid taxes. And it's an implicit rebuke to Republicans

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Speaker 2: who want a cut funding to the irs. Back in

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Speaker 2: the church, I wrapped up by asking Yellen what she's

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Speaker 2: worried about, if she's paying close attention to any specific

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Speaker 2: risks to the global financial system.

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Speaker 3: Overall, I would say for the US the kinds of

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Speaker 3: metrics that we would monitor that would summarize risks, whether

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Speaker 3: it's asset valuations or the degree of leverage. Look things

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Speaker 3: look good, there are not. I don't see red lights flashing.

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Speaker 2: I wonder now, as we approach the end of President

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Speaker 2: Biden's tenure, your tenure in this job, I should ask,

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Speaker 2: or are you done at the end of this administration?

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Speaker 1: Probably done, but well we'll see.

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Speaker 2: Last question, Madam Secretary, is you approach the end of

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Speaker 2: your tenure? Probably are What are one or two things

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Speaker 2: on your very long to do. Listen, we've kind of

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Speaker 2: touched on all of these things that are within your

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Speaker 2: remit and that you're working on that you want to

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Speaker 2: get done or feel that you have to get done

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Speaker 2: before there is a change in leadership.

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Speaker 3: At Treasury, well, for example, we're working very hard to

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Speaker 3: complete the rule writing that we need to do. There

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Speaker 3: are huge programs that we're administering both at Treasury and

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Speaker 3: in other agencies. We have the Semiconductor and Chips Act

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Speaker 3: and been hearing a lot here in Austin. You know,

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Speaker 3: we can continue to generate in areas where we care

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Speaker 3: a lot about.

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Speaker 1: The Congress hasn't.

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Speaker 3: Legislated the programs that the President and Vice President have

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Speaker 3: put forward. So housing is a huge issue. Affordable housing

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Speaker 3: in many parts of the country critical priority. We need

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Speaker 3: to use every tool we have to promote that agenda,

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Speaker 3: and we are it's important for Congress to act to

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Speaker 3: provide for additional construction of affordable housing. But we need

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Speaker 3: to use every tool we have, and we're doing that childcare, healthcare.

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Speaker 3: You know, there are things that the executive can do

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Speaker 3: and their area is still left to address.

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Speaker 2: You can watch my full hour long conversation with Secretary

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Speaker 2: Jenny Yellen at Bloomberg dot com, where you can also

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Speaker 2: find all our coverage of the Treasury Department. I'm David

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Speaker 2: Gurra and this is the Big Take from Bloomberg News.

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Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Thomas lou It was fact

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Speaker 2: checked by the Big Take team. It was mixed by

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Speaker 2: Blake Maples. Our senior producers are Naomi Shaven and Kim Gittleson,

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Speaker 2: who also edited this episode. Nicole Beamster Boor is our

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Speaker 2: executive producer. Sage Bauman is our head of podcasts. If

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Speaker 2: you like this episode, make sure to subscribe and review

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Speaker 2: The Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps

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Speaker 2: people find the show. Thanks so much for listening. We'll

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Speaker 2: be back tomorrow.