1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Why from our nation's cavlo President Joe Biden's one point 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: nine trillion dollar pandemic relief package. We're not going to 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: hear any more about Operation Warp Speed. They're gonna be 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: calling it the COVID response. We're talking right now about 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: jockeying amongst Republicans. Bloomberg Sound On, the insiders, the influencers, 6 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: the inside. Biding has promised again and again that he 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: will denite the country. Who do you think Biden has 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: to watch in terms of moderate defectors. The House has 9 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,599 Speaker 1: been voting for this stimulus package basically for months. This 10 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin Surrele on Bloomberg Radio, 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: and I'm Jeanie Schanzano in for Kevin Sirelli once again, 12 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: who is continuing on his much deserved vacation and joining 13 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: me today is Bloomberg contributor Rick Davis. And later we're 14 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: going to be talking to Representative Bruce Westerman from Arkansas 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: to get his input on the President's actions today dealing 16 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: with climate and COVID. Hasternly mentioned, it really was a 17 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: very busy day today. It was the first time we 18 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: heard from the White House COVID team who gave a 19 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: really sobering assessment as to where we are with the vaccines, 20 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: saying it maybe months before everyone who wants the vaccine 21 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: can get one, and they talked about the absence of 22 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: any real extended stockpile. And then, of course, there was 23 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:21,839 Speaker 1: a lot of focus today out of the White House 24 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: and the administration on the issue of climate change. Earlier 25 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: this afternoon, the President continued to govern largely by executive orders, 26 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: signing a series of orders aimed at confronting what he 27 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: has long described as this existential threat of climate change. 28 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: He signed orders aimed at setting new emission standards, helping 29 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: communities hit hard by unclean air and water, and promoting 30 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: the retooling of workers who once relied on jobs in 31 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: the oil and coal industries. And before signing the executive orders, 32 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: he said his plan is to ensure millions more jobs 33 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: are created in energy sectors that he says are growing. 34 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: And it is noteworthy that the President came out and 35 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: the first thing he said was Climate Day at the 36 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: White House means job's day at the White House. And 37 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: I believe we have some sound on that when we 38 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: think of climate change, we think of it. This is 39 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: a case where conscious and convenience cross paths. We're dealing 40 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: with this exiscentral threat to the planet and increasing our 41 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: economic growth and prosperity are one and the same. And 42 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: the President also sought to reassure people that he is 43 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: not interested in banning and he has no intention to 44 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: ban fracking, something he said on the campaign trail, but 45 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: has long been debated, and I believe we have sound 46 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: on that. Let me be clear, and I know it's 47 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: always comes up. We're not going to ban fracking. And 48 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: of course, he also added that he is going to 49 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: do everything he can to ensure and do well by 50 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: workers in traditional energy sectors like coal and industry, and 51 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: let's hear some sound on that as well. We're never 52 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: going to greet the men and women who dug the 53 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: coal and built the nation. We're going to do right 54 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: by them, make sure they have opportunities to keep building 55 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: the nation in their own communities and getting paid well 56 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: for it. So joining me to see if we can 57 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: do right by everything that's happening in Washington and across 58 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: the country today is Rick Davis, Bloomberg, contributor partner at 59 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: Stone cole Court Capital, former campaign manager for John McCain's 60 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight presidential campaign and Frank Maisano, partner 61 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: at brace Well's Policy Resolution Group. So good to talk 62 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: to both of you, Rick and Frank and Rick, let 63 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: me start with you and ask you, is we heard 64 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: from Joe Biden. President Biden's new climates are um, somebody 65 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: we're all familiar with, John Kerry, who tried to follow 66 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: the president in squashing the argument that these climate policies 67 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: are going to kill jobs for Americans in traditional energy sectors. 68 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: How good of a job are they're doing so far 69 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: making that case? Well, I think they're making the argument right. 70 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: I mean, like in the past, Democrats have made the 71 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: mistake of talking about climate in uh an isolation of jobs, right, 72 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: and and we're gonna build renewable energy, We're gonna get 73 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: rid of the gasoline industry, the oil industry, attacks on 74 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:24,119 Speaker 1: the oil industry, uh. Most famous lines from Vice President 75 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: Kamala Harris during the presidential debate vice presidential debate about 76 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: getting rid of going after the oil industry. So so 77 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: today was a significant departure for traditional democratic theology around 78 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: environment right where they we're going to talk about it 79 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: in terms of jobs. I'm actually a little surprised. I 80 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: didn't talk about how much job creation has occurred in 81 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: renewable energy around the United States. But but clearly they 82 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: want to make sure they don't leave their right flank uncovered, 83 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: and that is the coal industry, the fracking industry, and 84 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: the oil industry all got a shout out in the 85 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 1: context of we're gonna change our mix of energy in 86 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: this country, but we won't forget the workers who have 87 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,679 Speaker 1: made America great on the backs of hydrocarbons and Frank 88 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: building on what Rick said. Um, Yet, despite the President 89 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: and the administration's attempts to make this case, we are 90 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 1: hearing from Republicans almost from the first day the President 91 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: entered the White House and pointing to things like the 92 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: Keystone pipeline costing you know, eleven thousand plus or minus jobs. 93 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: So what can the administration do to make the case 94 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: that this is not where they are headed on this? Yeah? Right, 95 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: thanks for having me, I appreciate it. Um. So, you know, 96 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: I think the president, the president now the former vice 97 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: president President Biden, he's in kind of a box, right. Um. 98 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: He's got an activist group of progressives on the left 99 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: who think that the only thing that they need to 100 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: do is push aggressive climate change policies and uh uh 101 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: And and those people would argue to him that they 102 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 1: elected him, right, and I don't happen to think they did. 103 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 1: But but the bottom line is there's another group that 104 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: he's caught in the middle on. Who are the union 105 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: guys in Pennsylvania and Michigan and Wisconsin. And they're more 106 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: likely the ones who he was able to win back 107 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: to the to the to the debate uh in in 108 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: the election. And the reality is he didn't give them 109 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: any favors on the first day, right he uh the 110 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: keystone issue, while symbolic, really under undercut a lot of 111 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: those union guys at the National Building Trades, at uh 112 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: at Launa, at all these places that have been overwhelmingly 113 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: one supportive of of doing these union jobs and two 114 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: who were overwhelmingly supportive of Biden the campaign. So that's 115 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: his biggest problem, right He's kind of stuck between the 116 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: push and pull and words are words and actions are actions. 117 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: And his actions so far in this administration have leaned 118 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: towards the progressive side. And I kind of think that 119 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: he started in that direction, mostly because he knows down 120 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: the road with a fifty Congress basic lee things are 121 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: going to get a lot tougher. So it's easier for 122 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: him to do symbolic slash message type things now and 123 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: put those points on the board early, so when the 124 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: when the sledding gets tough later on unreal issues related 125 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: to legislation or policy issues. Um that he has this 126 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: to fall back on. Yeah, and I think you just Frank, 127 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: you've described really well the sort of the sort of 128 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: competing claims he's hearing from the left and and these 129 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: groups that he's as you said, he's got to sort 130 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: of navigate between. And you also mentioned that words are words, 131 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: but actions are actions. And we've seen the President signed 132 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: a series of executive orders today on climate change. But 133 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: what is going to happen if we can't bring those 134 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: groups together but also Republicans together in the Senate and 135 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: get some policies through the Congress in this regard as well, 136 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: How can he serve any of these sort of groups 137 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: that he wants to deal with both of these issues. 138 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: There's going to be real challenges on the limits of 139 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: the ability of of the executive orders to be effective. 140 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: Right now, they can send messages, they can be symbolic, 141 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: but once we get down to brass tacks, they really 142 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: can't do anything that's not been already approved by law 143 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: right in Congress. So so when they really want to 144 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: get where the rubber is going to meet the road 145 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: is when Congress moves and and the reality is you're 146 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: looking at Joe Manchin as you know, kind of being 147 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: a kingmaker and the Senate in the sense because he 148 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: u is going to have control over one the energy 149 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: agenda and a lot of other things, but mostly the 150 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: energy agenda. And he's shown that if you can't sit 151 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 1: down and work out things with the other side, um, 152 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: you know, then then then that's not how we're going 153 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: to make things work. And so I think really they 154 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: have a perfect example. Um that was that that we 155 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: saw in late no late December when they passed what 156 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: is one of the most significant energy bills we've seen 157 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: in decades and UH and and a significant climate bill 158 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 1: as it phased out hfc's, which are refrigerants that were 159 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: uh that we're having an impact on climate. Now. Those 160 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: were major climate actions that were successful because they had 161 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: a bipartisan approach, because Congress and because Republicans and Democrats, 162 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: because industry and environmental groups came together and all kind 163 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: of pushed in the same direction. So I think that 164 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: has to be the model for where things had and 165 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: that's where you know a lot of uh, That's where 166 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: Biden's strength is, right, Biden's strength is in building that 167 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: coalition rather than pandering to each side. And I think 168 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: we're gonna see that come out as we move further 169 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 1: and further into the year. Yeah, and Frank, I think 170 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: you're right that part of the day too, was just 171 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: to change the dialogue on climate, right. I mean, we've 172 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: had four years of denial and actually aggressive moves by 173 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: the Trump administration to roll back environmental regulations, and part 174 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: of today was just to say, hey, look, we're dimetrically 175 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: opposed this, but we can't forget everybody in the process. 176 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: You mentioned Joe Manchin, He's already been moving toward cleaner 177 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 1: energy positions and doing a lot of work with Lisa 178 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: Murkowski on public lands. He's he is the key swing 179 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: guy not just on this issue, but so many issues 180 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: of economics and jobs creations. So I'm sure there's spent 181 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: a lot of time making sure that whatever policy they 182 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: put forward is going to meet his basic minimum requirements. 183 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: So we'll see where they go from here practically. But 184 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: I think today was a big scene change on on 185 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: climate for this administration. And and Rick, you make a 186 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: great point in terms of what we're going to be 187 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: seeing out of the Senate with Joe Manchin, Lisa Murkowski 188 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: and others. We also heard earlier today from the nominee 189 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: for Secretary of Energy, Jennifer Grant Home, So we really 190 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: want to focus a little more on this issue of 191 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 1: climate action and jobs and what she had to say 192 00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: in her hearings today. Um, as we think about, you know, 193 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: how the Biden administration can sort of thread this needle 194 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: that both Frank and Rick are talking about in terms 195 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 1: of making a case for both climate and jobs. This 196 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: is Sound On on Bloomberg Radio, and I am Genie Schanzano. 197 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin Surrele on 198 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. I'm Genie Schanzano in this afternoon for Kevin 199 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: Cirelli at the end of this first week of the 200 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: Biden administration and speaking with Rick Davis and Frank Maisano 201 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,719 Speaker 1: and looking forward to speaking shortly with a representative Westerman. 202 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: It was, of course Climate Day at the White House today, 203 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: but also on Capitol Hill, the Senate lawmakers on the 204 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: Energy Committee, we're hearing more about climate change and the 205 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: inter section between what the Biden administration hopes to do 206 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: in that regard and jobs. They were hearing from former 207 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 1: Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm, who is the nominee for Secretary 208 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: of Energy, and in her opening statement, she said that 209 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: the United States has an opportunity to lead the world 210 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: and developing and cultivating alternative energy sources and practices, which 211 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: she said would create more jobs. And we have sound 212 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: on that we can allow other countries to corner the 213 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: market on carbon reduction technologies like carbon capture, utilization, and storage, 214 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 1: or we can put our workers in good paying jobs 215 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: manufacturing and installing those solutions in America. In his opening statement, 216 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: Republican Senator John Barrasso of Wyoming said he hopes that 217 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: Grand Holme, if confirmed, will accept fossil fuels as energy 218 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: sources so that jobs aren't lost in those sectors. And 219 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: we have sound on that. You have an opportune unity 220 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: to define your views and demonstrate that you're dedicated to 221 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: all forms of American energy and expanding America's energy security. 222 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: So Frank Maisano, is the Biden administration making the case 223 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: that they need to make as it pertains to these 224 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: this issue that Senator Barasso raised today in his opening 225 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: statement at these hearings, Well, right now they are starting 226 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: to make the case. The question is, as I said earlier, 227 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: will their actions follow their words? Right? It's very easy 228 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: for Jennifer Granholm, who is a very savvy politician. I'm 229 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: a Michigan former Michigan resident myself, so I take special 230 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: uh interest in in local politicians from Michigan. She's a 231 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: very savvy politician and done a very good job and 232 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: certainly will be a good Energy secretary and focused on 233 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: the things that the administration is wants to push forward, 234 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: especially on the environment, on electric vehicle infrastructure, her and 235 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: things like that. So i'm i'm i'm. I was impressed 236 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: with some of the things that she said, But again 237 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: it's gonna be making sure that actions follow words. And 238 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: I would say this, you know, the job's argument is 239 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: an important argument, right, But the question is you've got 240 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: jobs both on the fossil side and on the renewable side, 241 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: and there really isn't much reason why you can't move 242 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: forward and do both right and keep a lot of 243 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: those things moving because a lot of those coal workers 244 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: and a lot of those refinery workers and oil and 245 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: gas pipeline workers, they're not going to be the type 246 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: of workers who would just easily transfer over. Now, you 247 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: could make a case for having a transition, some sort 248 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: of transition that can help them, but the larger part 249 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: of that is going to be a tough sell for 250 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: a lot of those union guys who have been doing 251 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: the same thing for years now. On the other hand, 252 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: you have electrical workers who have worked on pipelines. They're 253 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: the guys who are building wind turbans right now, right, 254 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: So you know, you have lots of opportunities in the 255 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: renewable space. We should grab all those opportunities. Whether it's 256 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: offshore wind, whether it's ccs as Grant Home mentioned, whether 257 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: it's you know, extending and building more of the transmission 258 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: system that will be able to move renewable energy from 259 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: place to place. Those are all important pieces. The roadblocks 260 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: are in different places, and those are consumer driven. Uh 261 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: likes what consumer likes, and you know, local obstacles that 262 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: tend to block a lot of these things. So it's 263 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: never as easy as they're making it sound when they 264 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: have conversations like this, Um, there are always things that 265 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: come up, and those are the contingencies that we have 266 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: to consider and when we try and revamp and restructure 267 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: the entire energy infrastructure that we deal with in the 268 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: US and globally. And Rick, we're only a week into 269 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: the Biden administration, so I want to be careful here. 270 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: But Frank raise is such a good point. So much 271 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: of this is going to the involve and depend on 272 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: an investment from Congress. Is Congress for paired, particularly the Senate, 273 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: to act to invest in what needs to happen to 274 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: transfer these jobs. Yeah, Look, I think there's a transformation 275 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: is already taking place, right, I mean, I think Frank 276 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: points out a transition it's already well in place. I mean, 277 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: most of these states have already increased their supply of 278 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: renewable energy. The grids are being updated to accommodate the 279 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: kind of power that renewables give, whether it's wind or solar, 280 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: or or or sea base and and so I think 281 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: the recognition today out of the White House was Okay, 282 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: we're going to keep that going, right. We don't know 283 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: where the endpoints gonna be. We're not gonna sacrifice oil 284 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: and gas in the process. They may stop leasing uh 285 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: for oil and gas on public lands, but they won't 286 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: stop it from happening on private lands, which is the 287 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: bulk of the fracking business. So I think there's a 288 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: real mix here. And the real question is going to 289 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: be what is the agenda on Congress. What are they 290 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: going to ask them to do, because right now it's 291 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: not obvious by the Biden actions today that they've got 292 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: a legislative plan to submit, will it go through reconciliation? 293 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: Is there going to be a stand alone bill? Probably 294 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: not support for a stand alone but we don't know 295 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: what the congressional approach is going to be, right and 296 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: and again I look back at what they did in 297 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: December as a harbinger for what could be done. And 298 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: you know you're gonna have Bruce Westerman on later. He's 299 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: moved forward in a bipartisan fashion on legislation that Senators 300 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 1: Coons and Braun are pushing forward on a trillion trees, 301 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: you know, trying to plant trees for sequestration. You've got 302 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: five partisan support for energy and other things. So I 303 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: think you've got a lot of things that you could 304 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: have solutions on and I'm Genie Schanzano. We are at 305 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio and we will be talking more about that 306 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: issue and also the FEDS remarks today. FED chair J. 307 00:17:46,480 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: Powell's remarks today. These is Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin 308 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 1: Surrele on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jeanie Schanzano in for Kevin 309 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: CURRELLI And in just a few minutes we are going 310 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: to be speaking with Representative Westerman and we were just 311 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 1: continuing our conversation on how Congress might address beyond all 312 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: the executive orders the President signed today, the issue of 313 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: climate change as it pertains to the jobs and the economy. 314 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 1: So let me just add something into the mix with 315 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 1: my guests here, uh, Frank and Rick. We heard also 316 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: today from the Federal Reserve that they were going to 317 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: leave interest rates unchanged near zero, and they said the 318 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: path to economic recovery depends on the virus in the 319 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 1: vaccine rollout. Adding to that, FED Chairman J. Powell spoke 320 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: in a press conference where he talked about the outlook 321 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: for the rest of one and I think we have 322 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: sound on that. While we should not underestimate the challenges 323 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: we currently face. Several developments point to an improved outlook 324 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,959 Speaker 1: for later this year. Sufficiently widespread vaccinations would enable us 325 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: to put the pandemic behind us and return to more 326 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: normal economic activities. In the meantime, continued observance of social 327 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,479 Speaker 1: distancing measures and wearing masks will help us reach that 328 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: goal as soon as possible. So, Rick Davis, he's talking about, 329 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, improvements based on the vaccination being accessible and ready. Um. 330 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: Of course, we also heard earlier today for the first 331 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: time from the White House COVID team, who had a 332 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: more sobering estimate that it maybe months before everyone who 333 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: wants a vaccine can get one. So what is this 334 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: going to say and do in terms of the Biden 335 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: administration's ability to address all these issues we've been talking about, 336 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: including climate change and jobs in the economy. Yeah. I 337 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: don't know how everybody else feels, but I feel like 338 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: I'm in this scene from Groundhog Day where every fall 339 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: so or every winter someone says, well, you know, by spring, 340 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: things are going to start to improve, and by the 341 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: end of the year we're gonna have a better physical picture. Um. Yeah, 342 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: I want to believe the chairman pal this is a 343 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 1: great news Uh, if the vaccine rollout works the way 344 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 1: the Biden administration has orchestrated it, with the significant new 345 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: increases in the vaccine acquisitions that the government's done, maybe 346 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: we can get this thing deployed through the spring and 347 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: and and if if it actually happens the way he 348 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: described it, by the end of the year, we're back 349 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: on some kind of a track that would be super 350 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 1: news for the economy, super news for our society and 351 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: creating jobs. Uh. It's the first inkling of optimism that 352 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: I've heard in quite some time. Yeah, freak, I was 353 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: just going to ask you and do you have a 354 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: huge share his assessment about Groundhog Day or where are 355 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: you on this? Well? First of all, that was a 356 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: great movie. Second of all, the second of all, um, no, 357 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: I think there's as to what happened today, Um that 358 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: may that may be relevant with the climate issues that 359 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 1: are in present. Okay, First of all, we know that 360 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 1: this administration's main priority is dealing with COVID and the 361 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: health portions of COVID and trying to get that ball 362 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: moving in the right direction where they didn't think it 363 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: was going before. Secondly, I think you know the first 364 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: actions that tie Congress to this are going to be 365 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: dealing with that health issue and vaccination issues and dealing 366 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: with economic recovery. Right. And now there may be some 367 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: elements to infrastructure to that economic recovery, but really it's 368 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: about unemployment, insurance and helping people pay their utility bills 369 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: and you know, providing other additional stimulus to them and 370 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 1: things like that. Right, those are the things that are 371 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: really on front and center in the minds of most people. 372 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: So what what the links are to the climate side though, 373 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: are first of all, it's gonna move these climate pieces 374 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: back on the legislative agenda. Right, They're never always a 375 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: priori anyway in the in the minds of voters. So 376 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 1: these things dealing with the virus, getting people back on 377 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: their feet, getting the economy rolling again, all of those 378 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: things are gonna take a priority in Congress, will move 379 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: them to the front of the line. The second piece 380 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: of this is, as as Chairman Poul talked about, when 381 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: we start to see that recovery, most analysts that I 382 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: talked to UM see um a lot of the hydrocarbon 383 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: industries that have been pummeled by the covid UH problem 384 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: that they're gonna be starting to recover. Right. So, one 385 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: of the things we saw where massive emissions reductions last 386 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: year unseen because people just slowed down. The economy shut 387 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: down as and that happened to oil demand, and that 388 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: caused a negative prices in some at some point during 389 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: during the early parts of the year last year. Now 390 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: the reality is, though, you know those things are going 391 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 1: to come back, and you're gonna see oil recovery, You're 392 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: gonna see demand recover. And I think that also is 393 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: a it of a setback to what the administration is 394 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: trying to do on some of these climate issues and 395 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: will make it more difficult for them to succeed. And Brick, 396 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: I I really have to ask you as we hear 397 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: from Frank and has so many important things to say 398 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: about what may and may not happen um with with 399 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: climate and jobs. Speaking of Congress, we heard also this 400 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: afternoon House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy maybe taking a trip 401 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: tomorrow down to Florida to see former President Trump. What 402 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: do you make of it? Look, I mean, we knew 403 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: that Donald Trump would re emerge at some point in time. 404 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: He's been almost invisible since he got banned off of 405 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,959 Speaker 1: social media, and so my guess is that, uh, in 406 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 1: a way of sort of keeping his finger in the 407 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: dike with Donald Trump, he's he's taken a trip. I 408 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: have no doubt that he's been under enormous strain. He 409 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,479 Speaker 1: was the point guy in the House, if not in 410 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: the Congress, for most of the Trump initiatives over the 411 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: last four years. He's tied to Trump in so many ways. 412 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 1: He was one of the people in Congress who put 413 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: up the fight against the electoral College initiative. And so 414 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: my guess is he's going to go down there and 415 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: try and repair some of the damage that has been 416 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: caused to Trump. But my guess is he's he's he's 417 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 1: just going to be in listen mode and he'll hear 418 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: a former president vent on him the way that he 419 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: did when he was president. There's there's no fixing this 420 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: problem in the short run. Yeah, And Frank, in the 421 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: little time we have left, you know, let me just 422 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: ask you, is Donald Trump thinking seriously of starting a 423 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: third party? Is is Kevin McCarthy down there to try to, 424 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: you know, sort of head that off. Well, Look, we 425 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: all know that Donald Trump has a lot of bluster 426 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: on a lot of things, and I think people when 427 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: he initially ran for president, thought that it was a 428 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: lot of bluster. Now he followed through on that, and 429 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: people said he would adapt to the system. He didn't. 430 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,880 Speaker 1: He stayed where he was. Um. You know, I mean 431 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: there are lots of challenges that fay uh him trying 432 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: to do something like that, um, And and so I'm 433 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: not I don't know that it will happen. I do 434 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: know that, um, that Republicans would be wise to try 435 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: and slow that process. And I think that's part of 436 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: what's happening here as he as as McCarthy heads to Florida, 437 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: Frank Maisano, partner at Bracewell's Policy Resolution Group. Such a 438 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: pleasure to talk to you, and I hope to talk 439 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: to you again soon coming up, we're going to be 440 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: talking to represent it. You're listening to Bloomberg Sound On 441 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: with Kevin Surily on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Genie Chanzy now 442 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: filling in for Kevin Currelei along with Rick Davis and 443 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: joining us now on Bloomberg Radio is Representative Bruce Westerman 444 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: from the fourth District of Arkansas and Representative Westerman, it 445 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: is so good to talk to you and of course, 446 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: we welcome you on what has been Climate Day today, 447 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: So you're the perfect person to speak with and so 448 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 1: I wanted to do start off with asking if you 449 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: could speak a little bit about this bill you have 450 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: put forward which has really received a lot of a 451 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: lot of discussion in terms of a proposal for planting 452 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: a trillion trees to sub carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere. Well, 453 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: good afternoon, Genie and Dreams from Arkansas. It's good to 454 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: be with you, and uh always good to talk about 455 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 1: what we can do to make it cleaner, safer, and 456 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: healthier environment. And I'm I've got the distinction of being 457 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: the only forster in Congress. So treaties are something that 458 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: I'm passionate about, and they're the natural carbon eater. It's 459 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: the most pragmatic pract and thing we can do to 460 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: reduce carbon in the atmosphere, and it's also the most 461 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: economical thing that we can do. And you, I'm excited 462 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: about conservatives in conservation. You know, we started the conservation 463 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: movement and it's something that we need to reclaim the 464 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 1: narrative on and we need to imonstrate how you can 465 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: have a strong, vibrant economy and a healthy environment at 466 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: the same time, and that's really one of the goals 467 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: of the True and Trees Act. You know, we want 468 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: to plant more trees so we can pull that carbonality atmosphere. 469 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 1: We want to manage our existing forest so that they're 470 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: not going up in flames putting more carbon into the atmosphere. 471 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: And we also want to use sustainable building materials, which 472 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: would is probably the most sustainable building material that we've 473 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: got in The fascinating thing about wood when it comes 474 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: to carbon is that it's about by dry weight carbon. 475 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 1: So when you see a board lying around or I'm 476 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: in my house and there's a wooden countertop here, uh, 477 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: you know, just about half the weight of that is 478 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: pure carbon. So there's nothing better to uh to eat 479 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: carbonality atmosphere and store it and hold it for long 480 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: periods of time. Congressman Westman, thank you so much for 481 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: being on the show today. This is Rick Davis out 482 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,239 Speaker 1: of Washington, d C. And it's really wonderful to hear 483 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: Republican talking about conservation. My great Republican here, Teddy Roosevelt 484 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 1: and Ronald Reagan. We're man and man with you on 485 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: this on this issue, and so we appreciate your service 486 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: on that and your leadership of the Natural Resources Committee 487 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: in the House of Representatives. I want to talk a 488 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: little bit if I can, about um the legislative process. 489 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got the bill on trailling trees. We 490 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: know there are other ideas around thirty by thirty you know, 491 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: which is you know, taking thirty of the land and 492 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: oceans set aside and conserved by uh. There's a lot 493 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: of talk in some Republican circles even about a carbon tax. 494 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: And I guess the question I have, which was also 495 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: germane to what happened with the Biden announcements today, is 496 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: there a likely place, either on reconciliation or something else 497 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: that these kinds of initiatives could get a vote. Well, 498 00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: I think they will have a vote. I think the 499 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: question is where can they get a bipartisan vote on 500 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: some of these issues. And I think there's a lot 501 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: of ground where we can work together again if it's 502 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: about making a cleaner, safer, healthier environment, and I believe 503 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: in order to do that you have to have a 504 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: strong autonomy, so you can't do things that that wrecked 505 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: the economy and and think you're going to make the 506 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: environment better. A lot of people think those two are 507 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: mutually exclusive that actually they're dependent upon each other. Because 508 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: where you see the most vibrant economies in the world, 509 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: you also see the cleanest environment. So I want to 510 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: work on market based solutions. Let that free market do 511 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: its magic, on making uh, on helping us be better stewards. 512 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: And I want to focus on that word conservation. And 513 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: you know you mentioned Teddy Roosevelt, who's the father of conservation. Uh. 514 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: And I think the word conservation, the meaning of it 515 00:29:54,920 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: has been worked over time, but conservation means a um 516 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: a wise use of the land, of using it and 517 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: leaving it in as good or better condition for future generations. 518 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: And a lot of the policies that we see that 519 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: are more of a political environmentalism where you try to 520 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: regulate everything into this utopian environment. It's focused more on preservation. 521 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: And I like to make the distinction that preservation is 522 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: for innate objects. Uh. You know, you can preserve a 523 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: cucumber and make a pickle out of it, but you 524 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: basically have to kill it and put it in vinegar 525 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: to do that. Our living world is is dynamic, it's 526 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: all the time changing, and we can't just draw nits 527 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: around it. And say it's going to remain like this forever. 528 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: We have to go in and and be the good 529 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: stewards of the land and use that and learn how 530 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: to make it better for future generations and also to 531 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: meet the needs of the present generation. So when we're 532 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: talking about conservation more talking about public access and multi use, 533 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: I'm all for that. And one of the things I'm 534 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: worried about on the thirty by thirty is that they're 535 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: using the word conservation, but I've seen a lot of 536 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: times before where they really mean preservation. We want to 537 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: make this hands off, we don't want to have any 538 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: human influence on it. We're saying that with some of 539 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: the executive orders that are already coming out, and that 540 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: that really concerns me. But if if we're truly talking 541 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: about conservation, then they'll have an ally with me and 542 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: with many others in the Republican Conference. So, Congressman Westernman, 543 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: one of the issues we've been hearing and we've talked 544 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: about on this show in the last week or so 545 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: has been about, as you're talking about the issue of 546 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: the environment and jobs, the cancelation of the Keystone Pipeline, 547 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: and what is your view on the argument we've been 548 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: hearing both in terms of the cancelation and also its 549 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: impact on jobs and what can be done about that? Well, 550 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: great question, Jeannie, and I think what we've got to 551 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: focus on is an energy plan. What I'm seeing happening 552 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: right now are our energy points are little blitz on 553 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: the timeline UM where it's not really fitting into some 554 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: kind of overall plan. And I don't see the science 555 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: or the logic behind these announcements that are coming out. 556 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: I mean, we know that if you're going to transport 557 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: um liquids, that pipelines are the safest, lowest energy, most 558 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: efficient way to transport them. So when you shut down 559 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: a pipeline, UM, you're not only stopping that supply of 560 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: of petroleum. UH, you're really just shifting it. You're shifting it. UH. 561 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: And if you're shutting down production on federal lands in 562 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: the US, you're not going to end the demand overnight. 563 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: All these combustion engines and automobiles and planes and trains 564 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: and ships and construction equipment and farming equipment. Uh. They're 565 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: not just going to automatically change over to some other 566 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: form of fuel. So the demand is going to be there. 567 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: It's gonna make us dependent on foreign countries again, putting 568 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 1: this product in ships, sending it across the ocean, where 569 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: you're much more likely to have UH environmental problems. You're 570 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: producing it in an area where it doesn't have near 571 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: the environmental regulations and stipulations that we have here in 572 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: the United States. So I don't think this is going 573 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: to do anything to help the environment. I think we 574 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: have to have a comprehensive plan that relies on the 575 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:38,479 Speaker 1: current planest most affordable sources of energy and working on 576 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: the innovation and technology UH that if our goal is 577 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: to have lower carbon energy, we work towards that goal, 578 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: and we phase this in not just going cold Turkey overnight. 579 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: On of the UH the energy production, our supply in 580 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: our country. We've got to look at things like Hadule power, 581 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: where we've got to thousand megawatts of hydro power potential 582 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: on existing dams. It's been very controversial in the past 583 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 1: and whether dams should be built or not, but we 584 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: could go out on existing dams that are there and 585 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: put in twelve thousand megawats power UH and let the 586 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:21,320 Speaker 1: free market do that. We could develop more UH small 587 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: scale next generation nuclear power plants, which are also a 588 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: zero carbon But we can't just shut down our domestic 589 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: supply of energy and go out and claim that we've 590 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: got victory on environmental stewardship. Congressman this Rick Davis. Again, 591 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 1: I don't often get a chance to ask a congressman 592 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,320 Speaker 1: with a degree in forestry a question about forest management. 593 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: So I'm just dying to use this opportunity. UH. I 594 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: used to work with John McCain. Fires in the West 595 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: have been wildly discussed. I mean billions of dollars have 596 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,919 Speaker 1: been lost literally up in smoke. UH, and states seem 597 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: to have a problem with their forest management policy. Easy. 598 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: Is there something the federal role should do to help 599 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,240 Speaker 1: try and mitigate these conditions that cause these forest fires 600 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: in the West. Now, you just pitched me a softball. 601 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: Very absolutely, there's something that the federal government should do. 602 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: We should use sound force management practices. We know the science, 603 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: we know how to go in and uh and then 604 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: and use control burns and to really make these forests healthy. 605 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: Envirobrant and I talked earlier about how our natural environment 606 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: is living and it's dynamic, it's all the time changing, 607 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: and if we take a hands off approach, the forest 608 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: don't get the memo. They just continue to grow, they 609 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,800 Speaker 1: fill up the growing space, They start competing for sunlight, 610 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: they compete the trees compete for water and nutrients, and 611 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,720 Speaker 1: they become stressed and weakened. We see insects and disease attack. 612 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: You get all this dying wood, and then you either 613 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: get a natural lightning strike or you get a man 614 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: made fire. And we've seen the devastation out of that, 615 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: and all that carbon that that forest worked so long 616 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: and so hard to store in the trees goes right 617 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 1: back up into the atmosphere as carbon dioxide. But there's 618 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: also another part to it, the dead and dying bottle 619 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: maths that's left out there in the forest. It gets 620 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: digested by by microbes and insects, and it goes back 621 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 1: into the atmosphere as carbon, but it's as methane instead 622 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 1: of carbon diox which is a worst greenhouse gas. Representative Westerman, 623 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: it has been such a treat to talk to you. 624 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: We could listen to you all day, the only Forrester 625 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: in Congress, I think, in American history. Thank you so 626 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: much for being on and thanks to Rick Davis and 627 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: to Frank Maisano. I'm Genie Schanzano, and this is Bloomberg.