Speaker 1: What's the etymology of the dream blunt rotation? I wonder
Speaker 1: who came up with dreams?
Speaker 2: Shakespeare are very creative, I guess, yeah, right, I'll have
Speaker 2: to look more into it.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, that was an etymologists. I'd just always
Speaker 3: be like Shakespeare man, right right, that's the fall back.
Speaker 3: Oh you didn't read that one. Well, guess who's stupid
Speaker 3: now it's you?
Speaker 2: Or always just be like it's Latin dog Yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean nowadays it's eider k or Latin Yeah yeah?
Speaker 4: Wait?
Speaker 1: What is our?
Speaker 3: Is our? Shakespeare?
Speaker 1: What's kayson not given to us in the MA?
Speaker 2: Like riz huzz phantom tax like all the popular jen
Speaker 2: alpha words.
Speaker 1: Really yeah, realize that? Wait what is phantom tax?
Speaker 2: It's like the same, this is what the episode is.
Speaker 2: Can be someone's food? Yeah yeah, it's just like stealing
Speaker 2: someone's food.
Speaker 3: But do I have riz have it? Right?
Speaker 1: There's I look by a junior high and whenever I
Speaker 1: walk out, when or walk by when the school gets out,
Speaker 1: they they all call me like, hey, dickhead.
Speaker 3: But I think it's like cool.
Speaker 2: That's the news lang word. It means it really cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I fucking thought. See my partner thinks
Speaker 1: they're just it's bad. I'm like, nah, I'm like that's right, dude,
Speaker 1: it's your dickhead.
Speaker 4: Bro.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll know partner doesn't know the Daily's like, guys,
Speaker 2: then that's right.
Speaker 3: We're here reading the TVs.
Speaker 1: A Jenna Alipha yesterday, I was like, all right, explained
Speaker 1: six seven, and he got so embarrassed, even though it's
Speaker 1: like nothing bad, it's just like it started.
Speaker 2: Do you guys remember like twenty one, like the vine
Speaker 2: twenty one. It was like it was like a joke
Speaker 2: when I was in middle of school to say twenty
Speaker 2: one and like six seven is the new twenty one.
Speaker 2: That's just it's just like a funny number that doesn't
Speaker 2: mean anything.
Speaker 3: Right, right, I mean we had sixty nine and it
Speaker 3: meant something.
Speaker 2: Well, that made mean something.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, back in my day, nonsense numbers meant something.
Speaker 1: Six and I wasn't going dupe doop okay, that shit
Speaker 1: met something.
Speaker 3: I was going nice time and that's just what you did.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we're going to open your bibles, Philippians.
Speaker 5: Six nice check, Get out Jack, get out out of class.
Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome the season four.
Speaker 3: US have an episode two of Dirt Eily's Hey Guys,
Speaker 3: a production of iHeartRadio. This is the podcast where you
Speaker 3: take a deep bab into American share consciousness. And it's Tuesday,
Speaker 3: September twenty third, twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, what's that. It's the Rapture. Hey, it's the Rapture.
Speaker 3: Baby, bundle up.
Speaker 1: Time to join Time to join them in the Kingdom
Speaker 1: of Heaven. Also shout out my boy Chris's birthday, National
Speaker 1: Teal Talk Day, National.
Speaker 4: Six He'll talk snack stick Day, Okay, stick snackstick Day,
Speaker 4: So like stick if a stick is in the shape
Speaker 4: of if a snack is in a stick form, then
Speaker 4: a snack stick Day.
Speaker 1: It's also National Great American Pop Pride Day. Also celebrate
Speaker 1: Bisexuality Day. It's also Energized Day, which sounds like some
Speaker 1: woo woo will miss shit oh because it's the day
Speaker 1: after the Oh shit is the equal We're fully in fall.
Speaker 1: I forgot about that part.
Speaker 3: Oh was the equinox yesterday? Twenty second?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, my favorite jee All.
Speaker 3: Right, shout out to the Great American Popeye. My name
Speaker 3: is Jack O'Brien aka you can Go and you I
Speaker 3: Go and you a that one. Courtesy of Kai who
Speaker 3: said to the tune of Go Your Own Way by
Speaker 3: Fleewood Mac. I think Jack said he used to say
Speaker 3: and ui because he had only seen the word in
Speaker 3: text on we Yeah. I was aware of both. I
Speaker 3: was aware of on WII.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 3: I was aware of the word in ui that I
Speaker 3: just hadn't connected the cool sounding French word with the
Speaker 3: word I saw on texts that meant a certain vague,
Speaker 3: frenchy existential boredom. I was like theod they should make
Speaker 3: those the same word. Yeah, Alas, I'm thrilled to be
Speaker 3: joined as always buy my co host, mister Miles Grime.
Speaker 1: Miles akaa crimey. My gene's so frozen day shiny, No
Speaker 1: hand washing line dry in frozen crust is dripping like
Speaker 1: dime is crimey because you know, putting jeans in the freezer,
Speaker 1: no matter what the stain is or the situation and
Speaker 1: not a great way to clean your genes. Okay, So
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna put that out there, Just put that
Speaker 1: out there.
Speaker 3: I need is a cryo chamber and a chiseling to
Speaker 3: get all the dirt and shit off my jeans. Miles,
Speaker 3: We're thrilled to be joined in our third seat by
Speaker 3: a linguist who you know as the etymology nerd on
Speaker 3: social media. His new book out Everywhere now is I'll
Speaker 3: go speak how social media is transforming the future of language.
Speaker 3: It's Adam Alexe. Hello, Am.
Speaker 2: I supposed to have a musical intro as well?
Speaker 3: Yes, oh, Adam, I don't have any Come on, man,
Speaker 3: improvise something now. It's fine. It's great to have you here, man. Yeah,
Speaker 3: thanks for thanks for taking the time to be here.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I feel like this is a it's an
Speaker 1: interesting time because this over the last year, I feel
Speaker 1: like we've gotten really into like gen Z Jen alphis
Speaker 1: Lang and just going what the fuck are they talking about?
Speaker 1: Are they okay?
Speaker 3: Am?
Speaker 1: I okay? Uh? And yeah your area of expertise lines
Speaker 1: up perfectly with that perfect Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm a skibbitty scholar.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, and I'm Professor Chimpanzeini by Nanini at
Speaker 1: your service.
Speaker 3: And I don't know what you guys are talking about anyway.
Speaker 1: Jack and Jack We're gonna talk about all.
Speaker 3: Of that plenty more. We're also gonna get into maybe
Speaker 3: a news story about flying cars, but mainly we want
Speaker 3: to talk to you about language and how it's rotting
Speaker 3: the brains of our youth or is it. No, we're
Speaker 3: not going to talk. We're not going to say that,
Speaker 3: but before we get to it, we do like to
Speaker 3: ask our guest, what is something Adam from your search
Speaker 3: history that's revealing about who you are.
Speaker 2: I just checked my search history and the most recent
Speaker 2: thing was Trila leo trala la high resolution?
Speaker 1: Wait, I red is like the image of it?
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean you gotta have the high definition
Speaker 2: version of it? First academic presentations? Is that your favorite
Speaker 2: Italian brain run character? I think that's the most indicative
Speaker 2: of the genre. It was the first one that I encountered,
Speaker 2: so to me as a special value.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm I'm more of a tum
Speaker 1: tum tum sah or guy myself.
Speaker 2: Oh he's great too.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I guess for those that don't know, I don't know
Speaker 2: why you're not caught up, but it's like a shark
Speaker 2: wearing shoes and.
Speaker 3: Work on yourself. Yeah yeah, yeah, shark wearing sneakers on
Speaker 3: his pectoral fins.
Speaker 2: Right, I know, he's got straight up lest he's got
Speaker 2: it's actually hybrid.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it kind of varies sometimes it looks like yeah,
Speaker 3: but Anyways, he got shoes on.
Speaker 1: He signed that Nike deal man Phil Knight got to
Speaker 1: him quick. He's like, man, I want in the fucking
Speaker 1: swoosh now.
Speaker 3: And as you're like reading the trends in language, are
Speaker 3: you ahead of the curve? Are you like basketball? Like
Speaker 3: the weird basketball savants who saw Lebron James as a
Speaker 3: twelve year old and we're like, this guy's the next.
Speaker 1: Christ, next guy's the next note.
Speaker 3: It's like, that's such a weird skill to have, but
Speaker 3: amazing that they were able to call that at age twelve.
Speaker 3: Did you see Italian brain rot? And we're just immediately
Speaker 3: knew that this was the future.
Speaker 2: I genuinely think I'm more tapped in than your average
Speaker 2: linguist for sure at this point because I publicly comment
Speaker 2: on where words come from. People will like tag me
Speaker 2: in videos where new words are being used, so I
Speaker 2: sort of have that opportunity to see it before it
Speaker 2: goes viral. Then I sort of get to monitor it
Speaker 2: over time. I think there is like I do have
Speaker 2: maybe that awareness before most people, but Italian brain rot
Speaker 2: I was like a little early curve life.
Speaker 1: Over like Thanksgiving in the holidays. I will be around
Speaker 1: some jen Alfa relatives. What's what's some like new wave shit?
Speaker 1: I can kind of hit them with.
Speaker 2: So I think you just got to be talking to them.
Speaker 2: That's exactly it. They're more tapped in than we could
Speaker 2: ever possibly be because they are the ones that are
Speaker 2: defining the culture and it just revolves around them.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, so.
Speaker 3: You're in a room with twelve year olds and you're
Speaker 3: just listening.
Speaker 2: We should just start, Yeah, pay attention to them, learn
Speaker 2: from them, you know, maybe interview them. I'm trying to
Speaker 2: get up on site. That's why I'm hanging out in
Speaker 2: the middle.
Speaker 1: It's clearly an academic what do you I hate not
Speaker 1: knowing what Ohio means.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Skibbty thing that we've dug into that, the
Speaker 3: fact that there is an entire Michael bay fictional universe
Speaker 3: in the works, in the Skibbity works. Very confused by
Speaker 3: that one. I do. There's a certain artistic beauty about
Speaker 3: the Italian brand I'm very confused by. I guess the
Speaker 3: skivity toilet shit could be like Didesta a little bit,
Speaker 3: but it's very confusing to me. Anyways, I can't wait
Speaker 3: to see the films. Uh from my favorite filmmaker Michael Bay.
Speaker 3: What is something you think is underrated vibes?
Speaker 2: I think like I come from a background of academic linguistics,
Speaker 2: where people tend to over categorize things and don't recognize
Speaker 2: that things have feelings, Like you have a feeling about
Speaker 2: a word, which is why you adopt.
Speaker 1: It, right, what's wait? So what's like sort of like
Speaker 1: the overly academic.
Speaker 2: So I think the most famous, like example of vibes
Speaker 2: in linguistics is like buba and kiki. We all feel
Speaker 2: like the word buba is round and the word kiki
Speaker 2: is sharp, and yet the standard models don't really have
Speaker 2: like an explanation for that. I think all of languages
Speaker 2: kind of vibe based that, like we have feelings about
Speaker 2: words and whether we like them or not, and that's
Speaker 2: why we actually adopt them.
Speaker 1: I was with somebody recently who is like, your name
Speaker 1: is either this name or this name, and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: Miles is totally this same thing. I was like, what
Speaker 1: the fuck are you talking about? Like, I'm like I
Speaker 1: became old. I'm like, my name is my name, it's
Speaker 1: not I forget what it was. But they're like these
Speaker 1: two distinct names or they felt like vibe wise groups.
Speaker 2: Your name fit into one vibe or the other.
Speaker 1: But then it's interesting because I feel like vibes are
Speaker 1: a little subjective too, So like I got this.
Speaker 2: Like I've seen a lot of discourse about like does
Speaker 2: someone's name like sound like it belongs to them, which
Speaker 2: is like completely a vibe based thing. But like if
Speaker 2: it doesn't, people make nicknames, or they make longer names,
Speaker 2: or they like replace it that like that's how vibes work.
Speaker 3: Mm hmmmm, yeah, Adam, I feel like kind of a
Speaker 3: soft has a soft name to it. Miles has a
Speaker 3: nice soft feel to it, Like I'm the first dude
Speaker 3: that's not yet. No, sure you're soft, bro.
Speaker 2: Well it's interesting with like names, with names, especially like
Speaker 2: fifty percent of Gen Alpha names end in an N
Speaker 2: for boys, like why you know, like the Mason, Carson, Jackson, Grayson,
Speaker 2: Like these are the most popular Gen Alpha names, And
Speaker 2: it's because parents right now have a vibe that a
Speaker 2: masculine name ends in an end. That's literally it, it's
Speaker 2: all vibes based.
Speaker 3: They need to know it's my son. Jack Son is
Speaker 3: very important to me. What is something you think is overrated?
Speaker 2: Efficiency? I think I spend a time a lot of
Speaker 2: time studying algorithms, studying how people optimize for things, and
Speaker 2: I don't think that's where we find meaning. And things
Speaker 2: like uber eats, like delivering something straight to your doorstep.
Speaker 2: You don't experience the friction that makes life feel worth living.
Speaker 2: You don't bump into your friend in the street, you
Speaker 2: don't interact with your local community. The efficiency of algorithms
Speaker 2: and how everything is streamlined in society is kind of
Speaker 2: boring to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, unless you're yeah, unless you hate running
Speaker 1: into people you went to high school with in public
Speaker 1: when you're high and you just want to get taco
Speaker 1: bell just just quietly, there's a time and playece.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I always found people to be
Speaker 3: an impediment to the efficiency of commerce, and so yeah,
Speaker 3: that's why I'm really excited about this new direction that
Speaker 3: our society has taken. This This actually gets to kind
Speaker 3: of my first question for you is just you know
Speaker 3: the difference between I mean, I feel like you did
Speaker 3: a post on like quant speak and like how the
Speaker 3: the language of efficiency is sort of bleeding in, Like
Speaker 3: I one example that I've noticed, I don't know if
Speaker 3: this would be categorized the same in Yearbook. But like
Speaker 3: the phrase replacement level is a thing that I've like
Speaker 3: from the world of sports analytics, which is just like, yeah,
Speaker 3: they're like an average player, but it like adds this
Speaker 3: sort of dark fascist like Thomas the tank engine thing,
Speaker 3: where like everybody is just replaceable and CHANGEABI. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: people as commodities. Like so I do I notice that
Speaker 3: as a as a newish trend sort of vying with
Speaker 3: the more broad trends of like language. It seems too
Speaker 3: historically and even modern like today feel it's like a
Speaker 3: democratic phenomenon. It's like not top down and it's you know,
Speaker 3: it comes from like teenagers or like frequently persecuted minority groups,
Speaker 3: and like it's a way for people without officially sanctioned
Speaker 3: power to like weird wield their creativity and like power,
Speaker 3: which is I think beautiful. And that's what you see
Speaker 3: with a lot of these linguistic trends that scare people online.
Speaker 3: But then yeah, I do see also, you know, whether
Speaker 3: it be the world of like you know, like analytics
Speaker 3: people are stat people, or just like the corporate world,
Speaker 3: you know, creating these new phrases. I feel like that's
Speaker 3: sort of an interesting like dark and light side battle
Speaker 3: that we see in linguistics happening all the time. Do
Speaker 3: you think about it that way at all?
Speaker 1: That's so interesting No.
Speaker 2: I think there's each community always finds the best way
Speaker 2: to speak for that community, and it changes as the
Speaker 2: vibe changes. Again, I think the vibe is important here.
Speaker 2: It's very probably true that since the moneyball era started
Speaker 2: the sports language has got more about like quantifying things,
Speaker 2: and you're talking more about things like RBIs than you
Speaker 2: used to. Probably, right, people care about stats a lot more.
Speaker 2: I think as communities have shared values, language emerges to
Speaker 2: reflect those values. So the video you were referencing was
Speaker 2: about how math nerds and cs people kind of find
Speaker 2: streamline optimized ways of communicating. I think that's definitely true,
Speaker 2: because their goal is to find efficient ways, maybe mathematically,
Speaker 2: to express things. Same things happening with middle schoolers, right.
Speaker 2: Middle schoolers are just vibing in that they are using
Speaker 2: language to connect with other middle schoolers, to differentiate their
Speaker 2: identity from adults. And that distinction between top down and
Speaker 2: bottom up is kind of constant that we always impose
Speaker 2: like a layer, like through dictionaries or through formal rules
Speaker 2: of what language is supposed to be, but then in
Speaker 2: reality that doesn't fit onto everybody, and then different communities
Speaker 2: find their own ways of expressing themselves.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I feel like, I mean it's a fit. Right.
Speaker 3: They're trying to find the most efficient way to communicate,
Speaker 3: but they're also trying to make each other laugh and
Speaker 3: trying to impress people, you know, And like there's this
Speaker 3: book about the evolution of birds and the role of
Speaker 3: beauty and like how birds evolved, and so like, you know,
Speaker 3: we tend to think of, you know, the way evolution
Speaker 3: works and as like the survival of the fittest being,
Speaker 3: like you know, it's just everything is a something that
Speaker 3: was evolved to like feed or like defeat or dominate
Speaker 3: the other side. And it's like, you know, a lot
Speaker 3: of the stuff that birds have evolved to do is
Speaker 3: just to be like beautiful in a way that is
Speaker 3: like attract some other mate, you know. And so I
Speaker 3: feel like, similarly, in language, you have how to most
Speaker 3: efficiently communicate your meaning, but also how to do so
Speaker 3: in a way that is just like fun, you know,
Speaker 3: and like makes people laugh and makes people impressed by
Speaker 3: your creativity a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think everything is about efficiency, right, I
Speaker 2: think it can also be you're joking, you're kind of
Speaker 2: trying to communicy that your chill or laid back, those
Speaker 2: those things aren't efficient. If you're being efficient, that it
Speaker 2: isn't chill or laid back. And I don't know, like
Speaker 2: surfer communities, like we'll talk differently than the quants, you know,
Speaker 2: because they have a different goal in mind, they have
Speaker 2: a different vibe of how they're approaching language.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does feel like teenagers, Like how we experience
Speaker 3: language being spoken by teenagers today and then how we
Speaker 3: actually use language those spoken by teenagers in years past
Speaker 3: is like kind of you know, people don't realize how
Speaker 3: much of our modern dialect is just created by sort
Speaker 3: of younger people. Or you know, I've heard people talk
Speaker 3: about upspeak being a thing that was started by teen
Speaker 3: girls and criticized and criticized and criticized, and until the
Speaker 3: people criticizing it, we're also doing it with upspeak. You know,
Speaker 3: how do you like it is that sort of a
Speaker 3: constant in your study of like how language evolves, or
Speaker 3: also like persecuted minority groups like you.
Speaker 2: See you seem to really know what's happening that it
Speaker 2: often does come out of these minority groups because they
Speaker 2: have the biggest reason to defy the hierarchical imposition of language,
Speaker 2: because that's not their version of language. The language that's
Speaker 2: being imposed is like the super straight, white old man
Speaker 2: version of language. So minority groups, women, they're going to
Speaker 2: want to eventually talk different than than they do, and
Speaker 2: then they're kind of scrutinized by these other people. Except
Speaker 2: these young people and the marginalized communities are the ones
Speaker 2: that are actually generating the new language. And sometimes that
Speaker 2: leaks into the mainstream and then it gets adopted, and
Speaker 2: then it gets institutionalized, and then we once again forget
Speaker 2: like that it came from that group. This is a
Speaker 2: time honored process that we see over and over again.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you seem to really have a good graph
Speaker 2: of that. I think we have a tendency to call
Speaker 2: things brain rot right, and the idea that words are
Speaker 2: bad for your brain, it's kind of funny. I think
Speaker 2: brain rod is also a meme aesthetic, and to be fair,
Speaker 2: the words that are spreading right now fit into that
Speaker 2: meme aesthetic really well. And the aesthetic is like pointing
Speaker 2: back to the algorithm and how the algorithm is bad
Speaker 2: for our brains. And these words are coming from the
Speaker 2: algorithm risk, ivideo high do bichocolate, la, booboo, macha. You know,
Speaker 2: all of those are memes brought to us by the algorithm.
Speaker 2: And the words are funny because they're like algorithmic words.
Speaker 2: But I don't think the words themselves are bad. But
Speaker 2: you know, we do have this tendency to call language bad,
Speaker 2: and we've been doing it time and time again. And
Speaker 2: you go back to the nineteen hundreds and there are
Speaker 2: articles about people like being upset at words that we
Speaker 2: now find normal.
Speaker 1: Right right, I wonder too, like if it's kind of
Speaker 1: you know, we we sort of speak the same way,
Speaker 1: especially as kids, because you're referencing something in pop culture
Speaker 1: or like sort of in group as like young people.
Speaker 1: This is like a shared experience or value. And I
Speaker 1: wonder too, because, like I was trying to think, like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck was I saying? That would have even
Speaker 1: been perceived as brain rot quote unquote, like because again
Speaker 1: this is all generationally cyclical, where the like they go,
Speaker 1: what are the kids talking about these days? And I'm like,
Speaker 1: I wonder too, because like in the eighties and nineties,
Speaker 1: there was really a very limited amount of content movies
Speaker 1: TV that's sort of a lot of people were experiencing
Speaker 1: at the same time. With the Internet, it becomes so
Speaker 1: much more specific that suddenly like everyone knows Ace Ventura
Speaker 1: or everyone knows the Budweiser frogs. So being like or
Speaker 1: saying like still to this day, yeah, same or alrighty,
Speaker 1: then is again the same way we were just saying
Speaker 1: some dumb shit because it's from this thing you like,
Speaker 1: not because you're like that's the way I talk. You're like,
Speaker 1: we're saying the thing from the thing we like that
Speaker 1: now because there's so many different like sort of inputs
Speaker 1: for like what that what can affect someone's language or
Speaker 1: the kind of content that they have an affinity for,
Speaker 1: that's that Now it's like people are like, well, I
Speaker 1: don't know fucking skimmity of toilet, So what the fuck
Speaker 1: is skimmity toilet?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: Literally, I think you is a really a good point
Speaker 2: about like media and the role that media plays in
Speaker 2: our adoption of slang, and it's always been based on
Speaker 2: what we're consuming. So when hip hop in the nineties
Speaker 2: was influencing language, people would say things like fo shizzle
Speaker 2: and then to this when you know, movies were influencing
Speaker 2: culture people. It's you know, was up, you know the
Speaker 2: millennials laying that doesn't really stick around. Some of it
Speaker 2: does stick around, you know, words like cool emerge from
Speaker 2: minority communities and now just like a part of language.
Speaker 2: But vine I think in twenty fourteen people were saying
Speaker 2: things like bay fam on fleek way more. Sometimes those
Speaker 2: are still around, but I think largely they were a
Speaker 2: fat in the general population, and same thing is happening
Speaker 2: now with TikTok. Some of the words are going to
Speaker 2: stick around, some of them aren't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I also wonder if they're having to like if
Speaker 3: we're seeing this moment of exploding you know, slang that
Speaker 3: is like kind of extra inscrutable because everybody, like the
Speaker 3: as miles as you were talking about, like what were
Speaker 3: the words that we said to like define ourselves away
Speaker 3: from like previous generations. It was a lot of like swearing, right.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, you know just to this day, yeah, terrible, terrible, no.
Speaker 3: But now the fucking president like swears and like the
Speaker 3: vice pread you know, they're constantly swearing. So like I
Speaker 3: feel like you need new tools that aren't just this
Speaker 3: standard old tools of like saying bad words. But like
Speaker 3: you have to like create your own sort of aggressive
Speaker 3: words that like won't be used by the president, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. Yeah, I wonder if that that
Speaker 3: is pushing the young people to like have to get
Speaker 3: extra creative and like create new ways of speaking, because
Speaker 3: literally everybody says.
Speaker 1: For everything's on the table.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're kind of right that like absurdism
Speaker 2: is the only option here, and the importance of identity
Speaker 2: formation because young people are always trying to build a
Speaker 2: shared identity for themselves that's different from the identity of adults,
Speaker 2: because they're trying to figure out who they are in
Speaker 2: the world.
Speaker 1: That's normal.
Speaker 2: That's why young people are always the ones that are
Speaker 2: coming up with slang, whereas old people have a crystallized
Speaker 2: idea of who they are and what language is. But
Speaker 2: in a world where I think things are overly structured,
Speaker 2: like through algorithms which force feed us like the content
Speaker 2: that makes them money, and through like I think society
Speaker 2: is structuring things a lot more. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: we have this uncertainty of about what's going on, and
Speaker 2: then we turn to obsurdism in the same way, I
Speaker 2: think you're right to point out dadaism in like the
Speaker 2: nineteen tens. I think that's a really good analogy. There
Speaker 2: was a kind of that period of uncertainty going on
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's take a quick break now that you've said
Speaker 3: something I said was a good point for just let people,
Speaker 3: you know, rest with that, think about.
Speaker 1: Something a good point too.
Speaker 3: I know. Yeah, we're fucking killing it high flight you
Speaker 3: so hard. What's the score right now? Just text me
Speaker 3: the score. We're going to take a quick break. We'll
Speaker 3: be back to continue talking about this, and we're back.
Speaker 3: We're back and yeah, so first of all, I think,
Speaker 3: like this seems like a great corner. I just want
Speaker 3: to congratulate you, like just such a good time, such
Speaker 3: a wealth of material. It's like, you know, you're trying
Speaker 3: to study a culture, like it's just like the Internet
Speaker 3: is like a real time live like gig where you
Speaker 3: can just like watch all of the things happening, all
Speaker 3: of the different tools being used by the culture that
Speaker 3: you're studying. There, there's definitely, as Miles you alluded to,
Speaker 3: like there we see a lot of stories about education
Speaker 3: sliding in the United States and that being associated with
Speaker 3: how people use language or just like I get I
Speaker 3: guess everything just gets associated with like well, this this
Speaker 3: generation is bad, just look at them. But I don't know,
Speaker 3: I feel like that's a time honor tradition that happens
Speaker 3: with every every generation. But this generation is particularly screwed,
Speaker 3: but not not because of Italian brain rot.
Speaker 1: I would asume, Yeah, well, I think just to like
Speaker 1: preface all that, like there's this, you know, the group
Speaker 1: that comes out like with the Nation's report Card, like
Speaker 1: if you know the Nation's report Card dot gov, which
Speaker 1: is like a congressional you know, congression funded thing where
Speaker 1: they assess just sort of like what the educational system
Speaker 1: is like and how students are performing. Like the most
Speaker 1: recent one was pretty bleak. They're basically saying like twelfth
Speaker 1: graders have like they are reading at their lowest level
Speaker 1: since this even process began of assessings in nineteen ninety two,
Speaker 1: and the math scores are as as the lowest they've
Speaker 1: been in twenty years. And I think, you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of people want to point to different things. They'll
Speaker 1: be like, well, it's the pandemic lockdowns, or it's social media,
Speaker 1: or it's the dang fucking skibbitty toilet nonsense that's doing
Speaker 1: it all. But again, we've seen these trends sort of
Speaker 1: they predate COVID and a lot of these other things
Speaker 1: because I think, you know, there's been a systematic defunding
Speaker 1: of public education and now we have like a literal
Speaker 1: villain from entertainment wrestling who doesn't know AI from a
Speaker 1: one stake sauce sort of at the wheel. So don't
Speaker 1: see much happening to that trend. But I think again,
Speaker 1: there's like this a cycle, but right now it does
Speaker 1: kind of fit with the sort of bleak assessment that, yes,
Speaker 1: while our education system is in a pretty dark era
Speaker 1: right now, it's not always like this thing to lay
Speaker 1: at the feet of just basic like and that's why
Speaker 1: they talk in this way where I don't understand the words.
Speaker 1: Back when I was working at the Triangle Shape shirtwaist factory,
Speaker 1: we weren't talking like that.
Speaker 2: Maybe one of my hottest takes is that literacy is
Speaker 2: a little bit of a construct. I think it, to
Speaker 2: be clear. I think it's incredibly important we should have
Speaker 2: incredible literacy rates in math education and all that really
Speaker 2: does matter, but also it's a metric of how proficient
Speaker 2: we are in the medium of reading, which is sort
Speaker 2: of let's be really honest with ourselves in the cultural moment,
Speaker 2: it's sort of a dying medium, and we also are
Speaker 2: facing and consuming content in other mediums like algorithms, and
Speaker 2: I think these Skippity generation kids are more literate in
Speaker 2: the algorithmic medium than a lot of boomers are. They
Speaker 2: know like sort of oh, this looks AI generated, and
Speaker 2: boomers are getting tricks by like Ai slop Jesus shrimp
Speaker 2: on Facebook in twenty twenty two. They don't know what's
Speaker 2: happening at all. The boomers do understand algorithms nearly as
Speaker 2: well as Jen Alfa does. So I would say there's
Speaker 2: a high literacy in a different medium because that medium
Speaker 2: is more president in our society. Unfortunately, that does mean
Speaker 2: a decreased maybe literacy, and I think it is related.
Speaker 2: Because we're consuming algorithms, we are less literally. I think
Speaker 2: that's probably true. But it also has to do with
Speaker 2: the role of media in our society, and books shouldn't
Speaker 2: be the only paragon of epistemic wealth in our society.
Speaker 2: Of like information that we are consuming, we should be
Speaker 2: literal in all forms of media. So that means I
Speaker 2: literally think there should be classes in how to look
Speaker 2: at TikTok, and at the same time, there should be
Speaker 2: classes in how to read books because of the more
Speaker 2: different types of information we can consume, the better it
Speaker 2: is overall.
Speaker 1: So are you necessarily saying like it's overblown that literis
Speaker 1: like reading comprehensives, Like you're just saying there, maybe zoom
Speaker 1: out a bit, because.
Speaker 2: I don't want to say anything that could be construed
Speaker 2: as I don't think it's important to read in them,
Speaker 2: and I think we should really have good literacy rates,
Speaker 2: but I think we should also be paying equal attention
Speaker 2: to being literally in algorithms. And I think like media
Speaker 2: literacy is something people talk about but as a buzzword,
Speaker 2: and they don't really understand what that means to really
Speaker 2: be fluent in what it means to engage online and
Speaker 2: to go viral because there are so many like outside
Speaker 2: forces manipulating our understanding of reality in the online space,
Speaker 2: literal government psyops, there is just AI flooding things. You
Speaker 2: don't know what's real and what's not real, And it's
Speaker 2: that kind of literacy where you can understand how to engage.
Speaker 3: Right, So you're saying, just sorry not to take us back,
Speaker 3: but you're saying that that Jesus made out of shrimp
Speaker 3: was not real. That wasn't actually.
Speaker 1: Just it looks just exactly like that looks so much.
Speaker 2: I think whenever we talk about kids not being literate
Speaker 2: in books, we should also be talking about boomers not
Speaker 2: being literate on TikTok.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, or TikTok filtered down to Facebook, which.
Speaker 2: Right right to facebooks, which is like diluted TikTok slottery.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, some of the worst.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do. Like so, I feel like etymology sometimes
Speaker 3: gives us these weird like windows into history speaking of boomers.
Speaker 3: Like lately, I've been pointing out how dumb I feel
Speaker 3: when I use the word movies ever since I realized
Speaker 3: what that word like, the etymology of that. Like we
Speaker 3: joke about all people calling movies talkies right because they're like,
Speaker 3: god damn, that moving picture just talked, but not realizing
Speaker 3: the reason we call them movies is because god damn
Speaker 3: that picture just moved.
Speaker 1: It's like fucking things moving kill it.
Speaker 3: Are there other words like that where they like give
Speaker 3: you a portal into just like how different people were,
Speaker 3: like either stupid or simpler, or just like how different perception.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I was just reflecting on Instagram reels, like
Speaker 2: what's the real? Real used to be a film reel,
Speaker 2: which was a literal like spool of film that was
Speaker 2: reeled around like a fishing reel, and then that got
Speaker 2: abstracted to the sense of this clip that you watch,
Speaker 2: and then that got abstracted to the thing you scroll
Speaker 2: on Instagram meals. And in fact, now that I just said,
Speaker 2: the word scroll, scroll comes from unfurling like a scroll
Speaker 2: like the field. Like that's still how I consume Instagram.
Speaker 2: But yeah on skull, Yeah, use your wooden dowels.
Speaker 1: What do we have today?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Or a podcast being iPod plus broadcast, broadcast being a
Speaker 2: style of communication where you disseminate information like it used
Speaker 2: to be broadcast seeding and agriculture, which is a style
Speaker 2: of dispersing seeds. So like this agricultural metaphor goes all
Speaker 2: the way back and influences the word podcast. I don't know,
Speaker 2: turn up the volume. We don't often turn a knob
Speaker 2: anymore or hang up the phone. I often don't hang
Speaker 2: things anymore. Like that, we have these sort of vestiges
Speaker 2: in our language, and that's kind of what's compelling to
Speaker 2: me about etomology that it tells this story about who
Speaker 2: we were in the past and how we've evolved as
Speaker 2: a culture.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. One thing, just going through some of
Speaker 3: your posts on butterfly.
Speaker 2: Wait, let me stop you on the word post, Like,
Speaker 2: why do we call it a post?
Speaker 1: What's up with that?
Speaker 2: It used to be like physically something was nailing to
Speaker 2: a post.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, wall in the town I was just noticing
Speaker 3: this actually made me sad. I was noticing at my
Speaker 3: doctor's office, like in the hospital, the waiting room they
Speaker 3: called the town square because they're like trying to appropriate
Speaker 3: I guess the language of community and stuff, which I
Speaker 3: feel like is all over the place. That like, as
Speaker 3: we're being kind of converted into these little, you know,
Speaker 3: cellular beings of like consumption and you know that just
Speaker 3: being isolated from one another, I feel like that people
Speaker 3: are like trying, or like corporations are like trying to
Speaker 3: just like gesture at like old style community things to
Speaker 3: just be like, hey, guys, like we're we're all part
Speaker 3: of the same community hanging out in a town square. Wait,
Speaker 3: so hosting things to one another? Would you like check
Speaker 3: in for employment then like okay, have a seat in
Speaker 3: the town square in the town Square and you're like
Speaker 3: these chairs. I was like yeah, and then every time
Speaker 3: he just sits there and waits for their name to
Speaker 3: come up on a screen.
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of like community buzzwords. I
Speaker 2: don't know in the content creation space. I'm so sick
Speaker 2: of the word authenticity, Like we all know we want authenticity,
Speaker 2: but they throw around that word like like it doesn't
Speaker 2: mean anything anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the part that I'm really like in hearing
Speaker 1: you talk about algorithms, and also just like how algorithms
Speaker 1: are informing how people speak that you know, like so
Speaker 1: there is so much power in these algorithms and some
Speaker 1: people I think maybe are aware of it, and maybe
Speaker 1: others somewhat aware but to a lesser extent, maybe not
Speaker 1: fully understanding, like that these are being manipulated for someone
Speaker 1: else's gain a lot of the time. But like you know,
Speaker 1: I was struck by your ted talk when you talked
Speaker 1: about how like algorithms find a way to quickly like
Speaker 1: go get people into this higher compartmentalization, and that the
Speaker 1: algorithm point of these algorithms is to sort you more easily,
Speaker 1: and that the idea that you know when you get
Speaker 1: into something and you're saying, like, oh, I'm into cottage core,
Speaker 1: gork core fashion or whatever. Now it's like like you said,
Speaker 1: you're like the algorithm actually gave you that identity based
Speaker 1: on what you were interacting with. And that's like a
Speaker 1: really just sort of mind fuck kind of thing too,
Speaker 1: that people are also chasing algorithmic words to a get
Speaker 1: their content we've seen more or to be more popular.
Speaker 1: And I see this a lot in especially like sports
Speaker 1: talk on YouTube, or I just see it a lot
Speaker 1: in any YouTube where it's about commentary, where people know
Speaker 1: that using certain words or certain talking points or certain
Speaker 1: topics as outrage bait is just how you get more eyeballs,
Speaker 1: like on your shit. But it's no longer sincere expression,
Speaker 1: because now you are completely chasing the algorithmic goal of relevance.
Speaker 1: And like you know, when I like, I'm curious now
Speaker 1: like no one is just saying how they feel in
Speaker 1: certain against certain genre like YouTube content, No one exactly
Speaker 1: says how they feel. They just see they just say
Speaker 1: what they believe will get increased engagement. How do you
Speaker 1: see like that playing out? Just sort of as we
Speaker 1: go down the road, like as sort of this way
Speaker 1: of thinking becomes more consolidated or like one track because
Speaker 1: it's it used to be it's like, well, this person's
Speaker 1: interesting and people are interested in what they're saying. And
Speaker 1: now it's like, no, I need to say these five
Speaker 1: words to get my shit up and the algorithmic ratings
Speaker 1: and then that's how I will become relevant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean we're definitely performing for the algorithm.
Speaker 2: There's this idea of like signaling not only to your audience,
Speaker 2: but like using words as metadata, because the algorithm reads
Speaker 2: everything when you upload it. It knows that you're using
Speaker 2: certain words and will use those words to target your audience.
Speaker 2: Metadata is and just like hashtags anymore, it's anything that
Speaker 2: gives information about content and the video itself. The words
Speaker 2: you use in the video are information. So it all
Speaker 2: becomes part of this loop of the algorithm being able
Speaker 2: to categorize more, identify more, pin you down as a
Speaker 2: person better. Right, And we are playing into that. I
Speaker 2: will say, like people have always been performing and playing
Speaker 2: into the like I think TV broadcasters are really fake,
Speaker 2: Like they don't they're performing.
Speaker 1: I don't know anyone who speaks like this ATAM right.
Speaker 2: They're performing for the idea of how you're supposed to
Speaker 2: talk on TV, and I think influencers are performing for
Speaker 2: the idea of how you're supposed to talk on social media.
Speaker 2: When I write a book, I'm speaking in formal English,
Speaker 2: which is not really how I speak in normal life,
Speaker 2: but I'm performing for the idea of how you're supposed
Speaker 2: to write a book. All of it's a little bit fake.
Speaker 2: I think it's okay to reconcile that fakeness with recognizing
Speaker 2: that we are going to communicate differently in each medium.
Speaker 2: That being said, let's take a step back and look
Speaker 2: at what these algorithms are doing. And yeah, it's really
Speaker 2: weird that they run under a system called techno feudalism
Speaker 2: where they simultaneously like are we create the product, we
Speaker 2: consume the product, and we are the product. And all
Speaker 2: they do is they find more ways to put us
Speaker 2: into boxes and understand how we fit into this product space,
Speaker 2: and everything is commodified. All of our language is evolving
Speaker 2: through this con humorous lens of what can make the
Speaker 2: algorithms money.
Speaker 3: Just extract value through like you know, observation and like
Speaker 3: selling information about you or selling something directly to you,
Speaker 3: like and you're just like kind of they're dancing for them.
Speaker 2: You can't communicate without generating value for them. To go
Speaker 2: viral is to help the.
Speaker 3: Platform, right, And that's what and that's what excites me
Speaker 3: about this is that growing value for Yeah, what value?
Speaker 1: What could we be talking about right now, Adam, Just
Speaker 1: so I can maybe up our algorithmic score, which would
Speaker 1: be talking about.
Speaker 2: All right, I think we're past the summer of the
Speaker 2: machula boo, do buy chocolate, But I don't mind saying
Speaker 2: one more time, just in case.
Speaker 6: We try to much a little bit a little bit
Speaker 6: of chocolate. Uh huh, trying average like three of those
Speaker 6: six And to be clear, six seven doesn't mean anything, right.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like skimmitty, It's just funny.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I just looking back looking back at as
Speaker 7: I was mentioning some of your posts on like the
Speaker 7: origin of butterfly names, because that's something that I.
Speaker 3: Have a seven year old. Seven year olds are very
Speaker 3: curious about, Like this is a naturally fascinating subject matter
Speaker 3: for just I think all humans, and like my seven
Speaker 3: year old this morning was asking me for the origin
Speaker 3: of fifty cents name because his like art book had
Speaker 3: a piece of art that had like fifty cents head
Speaker 3: on a cockroach's body. He's like, who's that? Why is
Speaker 3: he called fifty cent? Like they just you know, they
Speaker 3: constantly want to know why is everything called everything?
Speaker 1: But a textbook has a fifty cent bug me?
Speaker 3: No, No, it's like an art It's like a street
Speaker 3: art book that we before him. He didn't like. It's
Speaker 3: not through school, got it, got it, got out when
Speaker 3: curriculum is taken off. Yeah, things are fucking cool now
Speaker 3: in a second grade. But butterflies come up a lot
Speaker 3: because every time we see a butterfly come through, I
Speaker 3: need to know name and the derivation. I was looking
Speaker 3: at one of your posts and uh so too. Two
Speaker 3: names that I think are like interesting little portals into history.
Speaker 3: One is California's Sister, which I just thought was a
Speaker 3: cool name because I just think it's cool to call
Speaker 3: people brother and sister, and uh it's but it's actually
Speaker 3: just like a nun. People are like that. That looks
Speaker 3: like a nun's habit because it's black and white, and
Speaker 3: which is I guess a window into history when like
Speaker 3: forty percent of all humans you'd encounter on a daily
Speaker 3: basis for like priests and nuns. So that was like
Speaker 3: the only recdude, I was.
Speaker 2: I was thinking about the word habit the other day.
Speaker 2: It's crazy that you brought that up, because habit like
Speaker 2: like a routine, like a thing that we do that
Speaker 2: comes from the sense of like clothing that like nuns
Speaker 2: would wear.
Speaker 3: It was just like so weird.
Speaker 2: It's like a routine that of them to put on
Speaker 2: I have Fun's habit. Everyone to start calling that a
Speaker 2: habit to do something as a routine, it crazy.
Speaker 3: It's just nuns all the way down. When you go
Speaker 3: back to history.
Speaker 1: They were the first drag queens given us the culture
Speaker 1: back then.
Speaker 3: It's the worst quentin, It's just the least. But then
Speaker 3: the other one that was like the opposite of that
Speaker 3: was painted lady, which I always thought was just like
Speaker 3: a pretty sounding word, but it's a historical word for
Speaker 3: sex workers, which yeah, so you have to.
Speaker 2: Like understand or flies in both extremes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you have to understand history through the prism
Speaker 3: that people were I feel like, usually starving, usually slightly drunk,
Speaker 3: and just ravenously horny at all times, and so like
Speaker 3: painted Lady, they were just.
Speaker 2: Like what's really different?
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, yeah, yeah, I think just less starving maybe
Speaker 3: and less drunk for sure, but still incredibly horny. But
Speaker 3: the fact that they saw a butterfly and we're like.
Speaker 2: That speaks to their reality. I think what we name things,
Speaker 2: it really is an indicator of what's going on.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: If we're naming things absurdly right now, that's because there's
Speaker 2: something deeply dissonant with our current understanding of society. And
Speaker 2: so I don't think six' seven is like some arbage.
Speaker 2: THING i think it's you, know it's reacting to the
Speaker 2: current state of.
Speaker 3: Modernity, yeah or in the official version of, things it's
Speaker 3: actually just the height of the president and that's why
Speaker 3: they're referencing six seven And takashi six. Wrong.
Speaker 1: Cool. YEAH i think one thing is just so funny
Speaker 1: to me is like we're looking at how eleven year
Speaker 1: olds talk and then being like society's, cooked and you're,
Speaker 1: like they're fucking, eleven you know WHAT i?
Speaker 2: Mean there's this justw.
Speaker 3: Eleven year old's talking is how eleven year old's, talk
Speaker 3: and everybody starts using.
Speaker 2: It and YET i think there's something deeper to what
Speaker 2: these eleven year olds find. Compelling if you look at skibbity,
Speaker 2: toilet for, example it's a story diegetically narrated through the
Speaker 2: lens of a camera headed, android and these camera headed
Speaker 2: creatures are interacting with other cameras like with, iPads and
Speaker 2: they're fighting this fictional series of. Toilets but what that
Speaker 2: means is it's a state of technology versus the basist
Speaker 2: thing you're taught is like the bad where bad things,
Speaker 2: go which is the. Toilet so it's like this law force. Versus,
Speaker 2: yeah well it literally if you're An Michael bay, version
Speaker 2: you're like, shit and we should be doing a critical
Speaker 2: reading of skivity. TOILET i think you're an iPad in
Speaker 2: a state of. Technology like you you understand that like
Speaker 2: this is some deep reflection of their state of.
Speaker 1: Reality.
Speaker 3: YEAH i was reading a lot about death earlier this,
Speaker 3: year and just like you, know our fear of, death
Speaker 3: and historically it's very connected to shit because it's like
Speaker 3: that's the most base like human like animal body thing that. Happens,
Speaker 3: though like you can't deny that you're just an animal
Speaker 3: that's going to die in the context of, shit you,
Speaker 3: know it's just like so far from anything. Else so
Speaker 3: that that's. Interesting also that like that is you know
Speaker 3: this higher level like robot camera headed thing that is
Speaker 3: like what people feel like they're in evolving. Toward and
Speaker 3: then the enemy is head in toilet like human animal,
Speaker 3: dead you, know dying shit. Body.
Speaker 2: INTERESTING i feel, like, Yeah i've never thought about this,
Speaker 2: lens that skimpy toilet is a confrontation of her own.
Speaker 2: MORTALITY i think that's a very poignant point you.
Speaker 1: RAISED i WAS i saw like early case studies When
Speaker 1: picassa was doing The guernica AND i felt like there
Speaker 1: was a skibbity toilet in. There replaced it with a conforded.
Speaker 1: Mother but, yeah this.
Speaker 2: Is shoes right.
Speaker 3: Now that's, crazy you, Are, yeah damn.
Speaker 2: Crazy, YEAH i should invest in skibbity shoes as. Well,
Speaker 2: yeah or maybe just put make skibbity toilet like The.
Speaker 2: GUERNICA i feel like that crossover you put. Scar really
Speaker 2: the point is that it's. Synonymous it's the horrors of
Speaker 2: war and technology and. MODERNIZATION i think that's the lens
Speaker 2: to read it through. That you know, why it is
Speaker 2: this period of time when we look At Marcel douchamp's,
Speaker 2: fountain you, know that's a urinal and we go back
Speaker 2: to we're talking about dataism in the modern. State it's very.
Speaker 3: Related, YEAH i. Agree let's take one more quick. Break
Speaker 3: we'll be right, back and we're, back all. Right just
Speaker 3: one last. Question as people are facing the existential horrors
Speaker 3: of LIKE, ai we've seen people try to like create
Speaker 3: a robot slur of like, clanker WHICH i. Don't i've
Speaker 3: seen people be, LIKE i like, It it's gonna.
Speaker 1: WORK i.
Speaker 3: DON'T i don't know that it is going to, Work but,
Speaker 3: like how how do you feel like language is evolving
Speaker 3: both in how people like obviously the corporations really want
Speaker 3: us to love and EMBRACE, ai and THEN i think
Speaker 3: there's probably like some deep seated discomfort around, that and
Speaker 3: THEN ai is going to change how we use. Language
Speaker 3: how are you thinking about?
Speaker 2: That this comes back to that THING i was talking
Speaker 2: about vibes and the cultural moment and how language is
Speaker 2: not some arbitrary, thing but it responds to greater. Pressures
Speaker 2: clanker is here because there is a greater societal concern
Speaker 2: about the rising role OF aa in our. Culture that's
Speaker 2: that's why we Are since earlier earl this, year people
Speaker 2: were like trying to find us slur for. ROBOTS i
Speaker 2: remember tweets people saying, like, oh we need a slur for,
Speaker 2: robots and then clinker went. VIRAL i think in part
Speaker 2: it went viral because it was used an analogy to
Speaker 2: THE n, word and that generated more, comments which are more,
Speaker 2: engagement which pushes it further in the.
Speaker 1: Algorithm but all those people are, like, DAMN i really
Speaker 1: really love using a, slur, right.
Speaker 2: The slur and then the discourse about how it's being
Speaker 2: used as a slur also helps push the word. Further
Speaker 2: and it's all in a kind of a positive feedback
Speaker 2: loop of words getting pushed into the mainstream by influencers
Speaker 2: who are using it because they know it's going viral
Speaker 2: and just a. Trend AND i call it the engagement.
Speaker 2: Treadmill you, know there's like a word it's. Trending people
Speaker 2: use the word because it's, trending becomes more. Trendy that's
Speaker 2: like the cycle we're.
Speaker 3: In yeah, Right, yeah it's a fun one, too and
Speaker 3: we enjoy it and we all love it and we're.
Speaker 3: Excited we're excited for the.
Speaker 1: Future it feels like so much energy to be like,
Speaker 1: clankers like as if it's that, Impressive like it's individualized
Speaker 1: enough to be like that clanker over. There it's LIKE
Speaker 1: ai just fucking. Sucks but again that's your generational take.
Speaker 1: Too you're anthropomorphizing, it WHICH i think is. WEIRD i
Speaker 1: don't think we should be treating these these things as.
Speaker 2: Humans and it's strange to me that you, know it's
Speaker 2: designed Chat schipet's designed like a text messaging. Conversation it's
Speaker 2: designed to trick you into. Thinking it uses first person,
Speaker 2: pronouns it's going to mirror your linguistic. Responses. Uh and
Speaker 2: because it's psychologically designed to trick you into thinking that
Speaker 2: it's human so that you believe it more or you
Speaker 2: interact with it, more and we kind OF i Think
Speaker 2: clanker elevates, it if, anything to a near human, level
Speaker 2: which is so strange to.
Speaker 1: ME i think it's again LIKE i was, saying like
Speaker 1: it makes it seem more impressive than it, is because, like,
Speaker 1: no that's. This we're not talking about like the FILM
Speaker 1: ai or something or something out of Like Isaac asimov's
Speaker 1: Like Worst nightmares or. Something this is just like people
Speaker 1: are falling for like this chat based party trick.
Speaker 2: Thing, yeah and, yeah it's. Sue there are sub. Credits
Speaker 2: there's like MY r slash my boyfriend IS ai OR
Speaker 2: r SLASH ai, soulmates where people genuinely have fallen in
Speaker 2: love with THEIR ai companions and it's like on. Ironic
Speaker 2: they really think this is like a real, thing and
Speaker 2: they're like being. Persecuted like, so, LIKE i think part
Speaker 2: of these concerns With clanker are genuinely founded and people
Speaker 2: EXPERIENCING ai psychosis and having a shattered grip on reality
Speaker 2: because you're interacting with machine which is trained to be
Speaker 2: in a positive feedback loop of reinforcing your biases and
Speaker 2: your cognitive, fallacies and then you think it's.
Speaker 3: Real it's, love hete you, know LIKE i get mad
Speaker 3: at him AND i call him, clanker but he lets
Speaker 3: me use it because he's, like we're actually it's.
Speaker 1: Okay i'm married my Daughters Havel, Clanker so you, Know
Speaker 1: i'm all right IF i say, that you know, WHAT
Speaker 1: i go to The clanker, cookouts you know WHAT i. Mean, so,
Speaker 1: Yeah i'm. Good i'm.
Speaker 3: Good but, yeah it's a part of the same illusion
Speaker 3: where it's actually just the forces of capital with like
Speaker 3: a mask on that makes it like clever and you,
Speaker 3: know friendly and kiss your ass like. NonStop that's Basically,
Speaker 3: yeah that's.
Speaker 2: A common theme of modern language is the forces of.
Speaker 3: Capitalism, yeah, yeah all, Right, Well, adam wonderful having you
Speaker 3: on the. Show where can people find? You follow you
Speaker 3: find your? Book read you all that good.
Speaker 2: Stuff i'm etymology nerd on, platforms BUT i think my
Speaker 2: Book i'll Go speak says it. All hopefully more people
Speaker 2: are still reading.
Speaker 3: Books, yeah go check it out. Anywhere go to a you,
Speaker 3: know local bookseller if you, can but it's it's everywhere
Speaker 3: books are. Sold is there a work of media that
Speaker 3: you've been.
Speaker 2: Enjoying, yeah, Well i've been trying to connect with the
Speaker 2: non algorithmic, stuff having spent so much time on, algorithms
Speaker 2: trying to reconnect more of the. Album i've been listening
Speaker 2: to a lot Of stevie wonder. RECENTLY i think more
Speaker 2: people should listen to songs in the key of, life
Speaker 2: such an.
Speaker 1: Album, yeah what are you like it on that?
Speaker 2: Album if we're talking about, vibes that is a vibe.
Speaker 2: Album that is it's such a message of. POSITIVITY i,
Speaker 2: THINK i mean kind of go through like all of,
Speaker 2: life like, pain, breakup but he wraps in this message
Speaker 2: of love AND i think it's really beautiful and it's
Speaker 2: also influenced so much you know, else like The Mario
Speaker 2: kart soundtrack is based on. It The Gangs Paradise. Paradise yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah the song Saturn by says that comes From saturn
Speaker 2: By Stevie. Wondering so he's influenced our, culture but he's
Speaker 2: done through uh this in a message of like, love
Speaker 2: AND i think that's really beautiful and it is possible
Speaker 2: to positively influence. Culture SO i think it's a good.
Speaker 1: Album, yeah all, Right i'll give it to. Him he's all,
Speaker 1: Right i'll check out The.
Speaker 3: Wonder, Guy, Miles where did people find? You is there
Speaker 3: a workimedia you've been?
Speaker 1: Enjoying, wait we see the guy who was on stage
Speaker 1: THE mtv VM a is Doing Wild Wow. West.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah that's where you Know i'm. From.
Speaker 1: Guy, yeah he's a. Musician, ALSO i thought he almost
Speaker 1: got exploded by an on stage.
Speaker 8: Pyrotechnic, dude do your own. Research he's actually on right.
Speaker 8: Right will also borrowed From Stevie. WONDER i just saw
Speaker 8: him do a sick. Freestyle the guy who had the
Speaker 8: really supportive. Fans, yeah that looked kind of had weird
Speaker 8: hands in that one.
Speaker 3: Video Will Will Smith Will, yeah, Yeah i'm pretty sure
Speaker 3: the part that he borrowed From stevie wonder was where
Speaker 3: he goes.
Speaker 1: Wiki wow Wow wicky Wow. WOW i don't know a
Speaker 1: ton About, yeah find me everywhere at miles Of. Gray
Speaker 1: check me talking about ninety day fiance on four to
Speaker 1: twenty Day fiance. One one work of media like this
Speaker 1: post on blue sky k nibs k and ibbs dot
Speaker 1: be scout Out. SOCIAL i just said one of the
Speaker 1: one of the downsides of impulsively getting my husband a
Speaker 1: python For Father's day has been opening up the fridge
Speaker 1: to this sort of. Thing and it's like a normal
Speaker 1: shot of a, refrigerator but you look inside and just
Speaker 1: box just says mice to, go one frozen medium. Rat
Speaker 1: just mice to.
Speaker 3: Go such a funny and the design of the boxes
Speaker 3: like it looks Like World war. Two, yeah it looks
Speaker 3: like A pixar thing like food.
Speaker 1: Fro it feels like a thing from The, simpsons or it's,
Speaker 1: like nice to go your python's favorite brand of frozen.
Speaker 3: Rat there you. Go let's see a. Workmedia i've been,
Speaker 3: enjoying you, know weekends or fre to. Kids so we
Speaker 3: Watched dunstan checks in this, weekend which we HAD i
Speaker 3: had never SAW i missed that. ONE i think it
Speaker 3: came WHEN i was like sixteen, fifteen and SO i
Speaker 3: missed that the first time. Around but the kids were howling.
Speaker 1: Fun laughter of that. Movie.
Speaker 3: Dude great performance From George, Costanza Jayson, alexander like you,
Speaker 3: know with.
Speaker 1: Hair exactly a lot of.
Speaker 3: Fun don't, Forget. Paul you got kids and you're looking
Speaker 3: for a Fun it's like g rated and should not.
Speaker 3: Be there's lots of guns and weird. Shit but you,
Speaker 3: know if you got kids who are over the age of, seven, There,
Speaker 3: yeah it's a good.
Speaker 1: One, yeah everybody's.
Speaker 3: Smoking shout out to. History you can find me On
Speaker 3: twitter At Jack underscore O'Brien and On Blue sky A
Speaker 3: jack ich be the number. One you can find us
Speaker 3: On twitter And Blue sky At Daily. Zeitgeist we're at
Speaker 3: The Daily. Zeitgeist On. Instagram you can go to the
Speaker 3: description of this episode wherever you're listening to, it and
Speaker 3: at the bottom you will find the footnote, no which
Speaker 3: is where we link off to the information that we
Speaker 3: talked about in today's. Episode well also link off To adam's. Book.
Speaker 3: There we also link off to a song that we
Speaker 3: think you might. Enjoy, miles is there a song that
Speaker 3: you think people might.
Speaker 1: Enjoy, yeah this is a track From japanese beat maker Bug.
Speaker 1: Seed i've probably recommended a track or two of his,
Speaker 1: before but this is just just makes solid boom bab
Speaker 1: instrumentals and for, somebody for people of a certain way.
Speaker 1: Age sometimes you play an instrumental in your car and
Speaker 1: you get to rap in and tap, in you know
Speaker 1: WHAT i. Mean so this is a track for, you
Speaker 1: but also just a really solid. Instrumental it JUST i don't.
Speaker 1: Know music is always very, transport, transportive. Transport it transports
Speaker 1: me to a wonderful era and boombab hip. HOP i love.
Speaker 1: You so this is Bug seed with the track a, spiral.
Speaker 3: Right we will link off to that in the footnote
Speaker 3: For The Daily Zeit guy is the production Of. iHeartRadio
Speaker 3: for more podcasts from My Heart, radio visit The iHeartRadio,
Speaker 3: App apple, podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite.
Speaker 3: Shows that is going to do it for us this,
Speaker 3: morning back this afternoon to tell you what is, trending
Speaker 3: and we'll talk to you all Then bye.
Speaker 1: Bye The Daily Zeit guys is executive produced By Catherine, long.
Speaker 2: Co produced By Bee, wang co produced By Victor.
Speaker 1: Wright co written by J m, mcnapp edited and engineered
Speaker 1: By Justin.
Speaker 3: Conner