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Speaker 1: What's the etymology of the dream blunt rotation? I wonder

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Speaker 1: who came up with dreams?

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Speaker 2: Shakespeare are very creative, I guess, yeah, right, I'll have

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Speaker 2: to look more into it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, that was an etymologists. I'd just always

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Speaker 3: be like Shakespeare man, right right, that's the fall back.

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Speaker 3: Oh you didn't read that one. Well, guess who's stupid

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Speaker 3: now it's you?

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Speaker 2: Or always just be like it's Latin dog Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: mean nowadays it's eider k or Latin Yeah yeah?

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Speaker 4: Wait?

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Speaker 1: What is our?

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Speaker 3: Is our? Shakespeare?

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Speaker 1: What's kayson not given to us in the MA?

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Speaker 2: Like riz huzz phantom tax like all the popular jen

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Speaker 2: alpha words.

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Speaker 1: Really yeah, realize that? Wait what is phantom tax?

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Speaker 2: It's like the same, this is what the episode is.

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Speaker 2: Can be someone's food? Yeah yeah, it's just like stealing

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Speaker 2: someone's food.

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Speaker 3: But do I have riz have it? Right?

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Speaker 1: There's I look by a junior high and whenever I

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Speaker 1: walk out, when or walk by when the school gets out,

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Speaker 1: they they all call me like, hey, dickhead.

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Speaker 3: But I think it's like cool.

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Speaker 2: That's the news lang word. It means it really cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I fucking thought. See my partner thinks

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Speaker 1: they're just it's bad. I'm like, nah, I'm like that's right, dude,

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Speaker 1: it's your dickhead.

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Speaker 4: Bro.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll know partner doesn't know the Daily's like, guys,

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Speaker 2: then that's right.

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Speaker 3: We're here reading the TVs.

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Speaker 1: A Jenna Alipha yesterday, I was like, all right, explained

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Speaker 1: six seven, and he got so embarrassed, even though it's

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Speaker 1: like nothing bad, it's just like it started.

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Speaker 2: Do you guys remember like twenty one, like the vine

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Speaker 2: twenty one. It was like it was like a joke

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Speaker 2: when I was in middle of school to say twenty

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Speaker 2: one and like six seven is the new twenty one.

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Speaker 2: That's just it's just like a funny number that doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean anything.

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Speaker 3: Right, right, I mean we had sixty nine and it

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Speaker 3: meant something.

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Speaker 2: Well, that made mean something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, back in my day, nonsense numbers meant something.

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Speaker 1: Six and I wasn't going dupe doop okay, that shit

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Speaker 1: met something.

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Speaker 3: I was going nice time and that's just what you did.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we're going to open your bibles, Philippians.

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Speaker 5: Six nice check, Get out Jack, get out out of class.

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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome the season four.

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Speaker 3: US have an episode two of Dirt Eily's Hey Guys,

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Speaker 3: a production of iHeartRadio. This is the podcast where you

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Speaker 3: take a deep bab into American share consciousness. And it's Tuesday,

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Speaker 3: September twenty third, twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm, what's that. It's the Rapture. Hey, it's the Rapture.

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Speaker 3: Baby, bundle up.

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Speaker 1: Time to join Time to join them in the Kingdom

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Speaker 1: of Heaven. Also shout out my boy Chris's birthday, National

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Speaker 1: Teal Talk Day, National.

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Speaker 4: Six He'll talk snack stick Day, Okay, stick snackstick Day,

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Speaker 4: So like stick if a stick is in the shape

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Speaker 4: of if a snack is in a stick form, then

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Speaker 4: a snack stick Day.

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Speaker 1: It's also National Great American Pop Pride Day. Also celebrate

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Speaker 1: Bisexuality Day. It's also Energized Day, which sounds like some

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Speaker 1: woo woo will miss shit oh because it's the day

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Speaker 1: after the Oh shit is the equal We're fully in fall.

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Speaker 1: I forgot about that part.

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Speaker 3: Oh was the equinox yesterday? Twenty second?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, my favorite jee All.

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Speaker 3: Right, shout out to the Great American Popeye. My name

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Speaker 3: is Jack O'Brien aka you can Go and you I

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Speaker 3: Go and you a that one. Courtesy of Kai who

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Speaker 3: said to the tune of Go Your Own Way by

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Speaker 3: Fleewood Mac. I think Jack said he used to say

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Speaker 3: and ui because he had only seen the word in

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Speaker 3: text on we Yeah. I was aware of both. I

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Speaker 3: was aware of on WII.

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Speaker 4: Oh.

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Speaker 3: I was aware of the word in ui that I

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Speaker 3: just hadn't connected the cool sounding French word with the

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Speaker 3: word I saw on texts that meant a certain vague,

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Speaker 3: frenchy existential boredom. I was like theod they should make

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Speaker 3: those the same word. Yeah, Alas, I'm thrilled to be

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Speaker 3: joined as always buy my co host, mister Miles Grime.

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Speaker 1: Miles akaa crimey. My gene's so frozen day shiny, No

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Speaker 1: hand washing line dry in frozen crust is dripping like

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Speaker 1: dime is crimey because you know, putting jeans in the freezer,

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Speaker 1: no matter what the stain is or the situation and

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Speaker 1: not a great way to clean your genes. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna put that out there, Just put that

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Speaker 1: out there.

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Speaker 3: I need is a cryo chamber and a chiseling to

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Speaker 3: get all the dirt and shit off my jeans. Miles,

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Speaker 3: We're thrilled to be joined in our third seat by

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Speaker 3: a linguist who you know as the etymology nerd on

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Speaker 3: social media. His new book out Everywhere now is I'll

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Speaker 3: go speak how social media is transforming the future of language.

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Speaker 3: It's Adam Alexe. Hello, Am.

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Speaker 2: I supposed to have a musical intro as well?

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Speaker 3: Yes, oh, Adam, I don't have any Come on, man,

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Speaker 3: improvise something now. It's fine. It's great to have you here, man. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: thanks for thanks for taking the time to be here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I feel like this is a it's an

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Speaker 1: interesting time because this over the last year, I feel

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Speaker 1: like we've gotten really into like gen Z Jen alphis

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Speaker 1: Lang and just going what the fuck are they talking about?

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Speaker 1: Are they okay?

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Speaker 3: Am?

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Speaker 1: I okay? Uh? And yeah your area of expertise lines

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Speaker 1: up perfectly with that perfect Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I'm a skibbitty scholar.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, and I'm Professor Chimpanzeini by Nanini at

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Speaker 1: your service.

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Speaker 3: And I don't know what you guys are talking about anyway.

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Speaker 1: Jack and Jack We're gonna talk about all.

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Speaker 3: Of that plenty more. We're also gonna get into maybe

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Speaker 3: a news story about flying cars, but mainly we want

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Speaker 3: to talk to you about language and how it's rotting

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Speaker 3: the brains of our youth or is it. No, we're

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Speaker 3: not going to talk. We're not going to say that,

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Speaker 3: but before we get to it, we do like to

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Speaker 3: ask our guest, what is something Adam from your search

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Speaker 3: history that's revealing about who you are.

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Speaker 2: I just checked my search history and the most recent

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Speaker 2: thing was Trila leo trala la high resolution?

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Speaker 1: Wait, I red is like the image of it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean you gotta have the high definition

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Speaker 2: version of it? First academic presentations? Is that your favorite

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Speaker 2: Italian brain run character? I think that's the most indicative

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Speaker 2: of the genre. It was the first one that I encountered,

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Speaker 2: so to me as a special value.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm I'm more of a tum

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Speaker 1: tum tum sah or guy myself.

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Speaker 2: Oh he's great too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I guess for those that don't know, I don't know

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Speaker 2: why you're not caught up, but it's like a shark

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Speaker 2: wearing shoes and.

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Speaker 3: Work on yourself. Yeah yeah, yeah, shark wearing sneakers on

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Speaker 3: his pectoral fins.

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Speaker 2: Right, I know, he's got straight up lest he's got

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Speaker 2: it's actually hybrid.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it kind of varies sometimes it looks like yeah,

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Speaker 3: but Anyways, he got shoes on.

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Speaker 1: He signed that Nike deal man Phil Knight got to

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Speaker 1: him quick. He's like, man, I want in the fucking

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Speaker 1: swoosh now.

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Speaker 3: And as you're like reading the trends in language, are

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Speaker 3: you ahead of the curve? Are you like basketball? Like

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Speaker 3: the weird basketball savants who saw Lebron James as a

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Speaker 3: twelve year old and we're like, this guy's the next.

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Speaker 1: Christ, next guy's the next note.

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Speaker 3: It's like, that's such a weird skill to have, but

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Speaker 3: amazing that they were able to call that at age twelve.

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Speaker 3: Did you see Italian brain rot? And we're just immediately

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Speaker 3: knew that this was the future.

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Speaker 2: I genuinely think I'm more tapped in than your average

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Speaker 2: linguist for sure at this point because I publicly comment

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Speaker 2: on where words come from. People will like tag me

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Speaker 2: in videos where new words are being used, so I

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Speaker 2: sort of have that opportunity to see it before it

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Speaker 2: goes viral. Then I sort of get to monitor it

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Speaker 2: over time. I think there is like I do have

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Speaker 2: maybe that awareness before most people, but Italian brain rot

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Speaker 2: I was like a little early curve life.

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Speaker 1: Over like Thanksgiving in the holidays. I will be around

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Speaker 1: some jen Alfa relatives. What's what's some like new wave shit?

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Speaker 1: I can kind of hit them with.

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Speaker 2: So I think you just got to be talking to them.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly it. They're more tapped in than we could

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Speaker 2: ever possibly be because they are the ones that are

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Speaker 2: defining the culture and it just revolves around them.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, so.

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Speaker 3: You're in a room with twelve year olds and you're

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Speaker 3: just listening.

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Speaker 2: We should just start, Yeah, pay attention to them, learn

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Speaker 2: from them, you know, maybe interview them. I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: get up on site. That's why I'm hanging out in

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Speaker 2: the middle.

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Speaker 1: It's clearly an academic what do you I hate not

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Speaker 1: knowing what Ohio means.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the Skibbty thing that we've dug into that, the

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Speaker 3: fact that there is an entire Michael bay fictional universe

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Speaker 3: in the works, in the Skibbity works. Very confused by

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Speaker 3: that one. I do. There's a certain artistic beauty about

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Speaker 3: the Italian brand I'm very confused by. I guess the

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Speaker 3: skivity toilet shit could be like Didesta a little bit,

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Speaker 3: but it's very confusing to me. Anyways, I can't wait

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Speaker 3: to see the films. Uh from my favorite filmmaker Michael Bay.

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Speaker 3: What is something you think is underrated vibes?

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Speaker 2: I think like I come from a background of academic linguistics,

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Speaker 2: where people tend to over categorize things and don't recognize

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Speaker 2: that things have feelings, Like you have a feeling about

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Speaker 2: a word, which is why you adopt.

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Speaker 1: It, right, what's wait? So what's like sort of like

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Speaker 1: the overly academic.

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Speaker 2: So I think the most famous, like example of vibes

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Speaker 2: in linguistics is like buba and kiki. We all feel

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Speaker 2: like the word buba is round and the word kiki

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Speaker 2: is sharp, and yet the standard models don't really have

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Speaker 2: like an explanation for that. I think all of languages

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Speaker 2: kind of vibe based that, like we have feelings about

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Speaker 2: words and whether we like them or not, and that's

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Speaker 2: why we actually adopt them.

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Speaker 1: I was with somebody recently who is like, your name

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Speaker 1: is either this name or this name, and they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: Miles is totally this same thing. I was like, what

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Speaker 1: the fuck are you talking about? Like, I'm like I

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Speaker 1: became old. I'm like, my name is my name, it's

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Speaker 1: not I forget what it was. But they're like these

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Speaker 1: two distinct names or they felt like vibe wise groups.

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Speaker 2: Your name fit into one vibe or the other.

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Speaker 1: But then it's interesting because I feel like vibes are

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Speaker 1: a little subjective too, So like I got this.

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Speaker 2: Like I've seen a lot of discourse about like does

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Speaker 2: someone's name like sound like it belongs to them, which

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Speaker 2: is like completely a vibe based thing. But like if

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Speaker 2: it doesn't, people make nicknames, or they make longer names,

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Speaker 2: or they like replace it that like that's how vibes work.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmmmm, yeah, Adam, I feel like kind of a

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Speaker 3: soft has a soft name to it. Miles has a

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Speaker 3: nice soft feel to it, Like I'm the first dude

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Speaker 3: that's not yet. No, sure you're soft, bro.

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Speaker 2: Well it's interesting with like names, with names, especially like

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Speaker 2: fifty percent of Gen Alpha names end in an N

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Speaker 2: for boys, like why you know, like the Mason, Carson, Jackson, Grayson,

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Speaker 2: Like these are the most popular Gen Alpha names, And

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Speaker 2: it's because parents right now have a vibe that a

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Speaker 2: masculine name ends in an end. That's literally it, it's

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Speaker 2: all vibes based.

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Speaker 3: They need to know it's my son. Jack Son is

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Speaker 3: very important to me. What is something you think is overrated?

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Speaker 2: Efficiency? I think I spend a time a lot of

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Speaker 2: time studying algorithms, studying how people optimize for things, and

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Speaker 2: I don't think that's where we find meaning. And things

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Speaker 2: like uber eats, like delivering something straight to your doorstep.

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Speaker 2: You don't experience the friction that makes life feel worth living.

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Speaker 2: You don't bump into your friend in the street, you

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Speaker 2: don't interact with your local community. The efficiency of algorithms

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Speaker 2: and how everything is streamlined in society is kind of

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Speaker 2: boring to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, unless you're yeah, unless you hate running

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Speaker 1: into people you went to high school with in public

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Speaker 1: when you're high and you just want to get taco

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Speaker 1: bell just just quietly, there's a time and playece.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I always found people to be

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Speaker 3: an impediment to the efficiency of commerce, and so yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's why I'm really excited about this new direction that

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Speaker 3: our society has taken. This This actually gets to kind

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Speaker 3: of my first question for you is just you know

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Speaker 3: the difference between I mean, I feel like you did

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Speaker 3: a post on like quant speak and like how the

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Speaker 3: the language of efficiency is sort of bleeding in, Like

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Speaker 3: I one example that I've noticed, I don't know if

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Speaker 3: this would be categorized the same in Yearbook. But like

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Speaker 3: the phrase replacement level is a thing that I've like

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Speaker 3: from the world of sports analytics, which is just like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: they're like an average player, but it like adds this

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Speaker 3: sort of dark fascist like Thomas the tank engine thing,

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Speaker 3: where like everybody is just replaceable and CHANGEABI. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: people as commodities. Like so I do I notice that

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Speaker 3: as a as a newish trend sort of vying with

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Speaker 3: the more broad trends of like language. It seems too

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Speaker 3: historically and even modern like today feel it's like a

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Speaker 3: democratic phenomenon. It's like not top down and it's you know,

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Speaker 3: it comes from like teenagers or like frequently persecuted minority groups,

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Speaker 3: and like it's a way for people without officially sanctioned

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Speaker 3: power to like weird wield their creativity and like power,

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Speaker 3: which is I think beautiful. And that's what you see

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Speaker 3: with a lot of these linguistic trends that scare people online.

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Speaker 3: But then yeah, I do see also, you know, whether

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Speaker 3: it be the world of like you know, like analytics

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Speaker 3: people are stat people, or just like the corporate world,

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Speaker 3: you know, creating these new phrases. I feel like that's

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Speaker 3: sort of an interesting like dark and light side battle

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Speaker 3: that we see in linguistics happening all the time. Do

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Speaker 3: you think about it that way at all?

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Speaker 1: That's so interesting No.

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Speaker 2: I think there's each community always finds the best way

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Speaker 2: to speak for that community, and it changes as the

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Speaker 2: vibe changes. Again, I think the vibe is important here.

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Speaker 2: It's very probably true that since the moneyball era started

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Speaker 2: the sports language has got more about like quantifying things,

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Speaker 2: and you're talking more about things like RBIs than you

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Speaker 2: used to. Probably, right, people care about stats a lot more.

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Speaker 2: I think as communities have shared values, language emerges to

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Speaker 2: reflect those values. So the video you were referencing was

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Speaker 2: about how math nerds and cs people kind of find

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Speaker 2: streamline optimized ways of communicating. I think that's definitely true,

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Speaker 2: because their goal is to find efficient ways, maybe mathematically,

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Speaker 2: to express things. Same things happening with middle schoolers, right.

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Speaker 2: Middle schoolers are just vibing in that they are using

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Speaker 2: language to connect with other middle schoolers, to differentiate their

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Speaker 2: identity from adults. And that distinction between top down and

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Speaker 2: bottom up is kind of constant that we always impose

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Speaker 2: like a layer, like through dictionaries or through formal rules

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Speaker 2: of what language is supposed to be, but then in

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Speaker 2: reality that doesn't fit onto everybody, and then different communities

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Speaker 2: find their own ways of expressing themselves.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I feel like, I mean it's a fit. Right.

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Speaker 3: They're trying to find the most efficient way to communicate,

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Speaker 3: but they're also trying to make each other laugh and

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Speaker 3: trying to impress people, you know, And like there's this

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Speaker 3: book about the evolution of birds and the role of

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Speaker 3: beauty and like how birds evolved, and so like, you know,

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Speaker 3: we tend to think of, you know, the way evolution

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Speaker 3: works and as like the survival of the fittest being,

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Speaker 3: like you know, it's just everything is a something that

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Speaker 3: was evolved to like feed or like defeat or dominate

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Speaker 3: the other side. And it's like, you know, a lot

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Speaker 3: of the stuff that birds have evolved to do is

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Speaker 3: just to be like beautiful in a way that is

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Speaker 3: like attract some other mate, you know. And so I

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Speaker 3: feel like, similarly, in language, you have how to most

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Speaker 3: efficiently communicate your meaning, but also how to do so

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Speaker 3: in a way that is just like fun, you know,

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Speaker 3: and like makes people laugh and makes people impressed by

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Speaker 3: your creativity a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think everything is about efficiency, right, I

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Speaker 2: think it can also be you're joking, you're kind of

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Speaker 2: trying to communicy that your chill or laid back, those

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Speaker 2: those things aren't efficient. If you're being efficient, that it

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Speaker 2: isn't chill or laid back. And I don't know, like

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Speaker 2: surfer communities, like we'll talk differently than the quants, you know,

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Speaker 2: because they have a different goal in mind, they have

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Speaker 2: a different vibe of how they're approaching language.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it does feel like teenagers, Like how we experience

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Speaker 3: language being spoken by teenagers today and then how we

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Speaker 3: actually use language those spoken by teenagers in years past

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Speaker 3: is like kind of you know, people don't realize how

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Speaker 3: much of our modern dialect is just created by sort

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Speaker 3: of younger people. Or you know, I've heard people talk

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Speaker 3: about upspeak being a thing that was started by teen

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Speaker 3: girls and criticized and criticized and criticized, and until the

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Speaker 3: people criticizing it, we're also doing it with upspeak. You know,

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Speaker 3: how do you like it is that sort of a

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Speaker 3: constant in your study of like how language evolves, or

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Speaker 3: also like persecuted minority groups like you.

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Speaker 2: See you seem to really know what's happening that it

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Speaker 2: often does come out of these minority groups because they

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Speaker 2: have the biggest reason to defy the hierarchical imposition of language,

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Speaker 2: because that's not their version of language. The language that's

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Speaker 2: being imposed is like the super straight, white old man

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Speaker 2: version of language. So minority groups, women, they're going to

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Speaker 2: want to eventually talk different than than they do, and

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Speaker 2: then they're kind of scrutinized by these other people. Except

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Speaker 2: these young people and the marginalized communities are the ones

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Speaker 2: that are actually generating the new language. And sometimes that

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Speaker 2: leaks into the mainstream and then it gets adopted, and

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Speaker 2: then it gets institutionalized, and then we once again forget

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Speaker 2: like that it came from that group. This is a

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Speaker 2: time honored process that we see over and over again.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, you seem to really have a good graph

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Speaker 2: of that. I think we have a tendency to call

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Speaker 2: things brain rot right, and the idea that words are

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Speaker 2: bad for your brain, it's kind of funny. I think

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Speaker 2: brain rod is also a meme aesthetic, and to be fair,

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Speaker 2: the words that are spreading right now fit into that

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Speaker 2: meme aesthetic really well. And the aesthetic is like pointing

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Speaker 2: back to the algorithm and how the algorithm is bad

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Speaker 2: for our brains. And these words are coming from the

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Speaker 2: algorithm risk, ivideo high do bichocolate, la, booboo, macha. You know,

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Speaker 2: all of those are memes brought to us by the algorithm.

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Speaker 2: And the words are funny because they're like algorithmic words.

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Speaker 2: But I don't think the words themselves are bad. But

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Speaker 2: you know, we do have this tendency to call language bad,

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Speaker 2: and we've been doing it time and time again. And

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Speaker 2: you go back to the nineteen hundreds and there are

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Speaker 2: articles about people like being upset at words that we

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Speaker 2: now find normal.

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Speaker 1: Right right, I wonder too, like if it's kind of

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Speaker 1: you know, we we sort of speak the same way,

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Speaker 1: especially as kids, because you're referencing something in pop culture

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Speaker 1: or like sort of in group as like young people.

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Speaker 1: This is like a shared experience or value. And I

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Speaker 1: wonder too, because, like I was trying to think, like,

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Speaker 1: what the fuck was I saying? That would have even

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Speaker 1: been perceived as brain rot quote unquote, like because again

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Speaker 1: this is all generationally cyclical, where the like they go,

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Speaker 1: what are the kids talking about these days? And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I wonder too, because like in the eighties and nineties,

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Speaker 1: there was really a very limited amount of content movies

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Speaker 1: TV that's sort of a lot of people were experiencing

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Speaker 1: at the same time. With the Internet, it becomes so

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Speaker 1: much more specific that suddenly like everyone knows Ace Ventura

390
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,399
Speaker 1: or everyone knows the Budweiser frogs. So being like or

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Speaker 1: saying like still to this day, yeah, same or alrighty,

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Speaker 1: then is again the same way we were just saying

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Speaker 1: some dumb shit because it's from this thing you like,

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Speaker 1: not because you're like that's the way I talk. You're like,

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Speaker 1: we're saying the thing from the thing we like that

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Speaker 1: now because there's so many different like sort of inputs

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Speaker 1: for like what that what can affect someone's language or

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Speaker 1: the kind of content that they have an affinity for,

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Speaker 1: that's that Now it's like people are like, well, I

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Speaker 1: don't know fucking skimmity of toilet, So what the fuck

401
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:40,680
Speaker 1: is skimmity toilet?

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Speaker 3: You know?

403
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Speaker 2: Literally, I think you is a really a good point

404
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,280
Speaker 2: about like media and the role that media plays in

405
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Speaker 2: our adoption of slang, and it's always been based on

406
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Speaker 2: what we're consuming. So when hip hop in the nineties

407
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 2: was influencing language, people would say things like fo shizzle

408
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 2: and then to this when you know, movies were influencing

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Speaker 2: culture people. It's you know, was up, you know the

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Speaker 2: millennials laying that doesn't really stick around. Some of it

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Speaker 2: does stick around, you know, words like cool emerge from

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Speaker 2: minority communities and now just like a part of language.

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Speaker 2: But vine I think in twenty fourteen people were saying

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Speaker 2: things like bay fam on fleek way more. Sometimes those

415
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,119
Speaker 2: are still around, but I think largely they were a

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Speaker 2: fat in the general population, and same thing is happening

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Speaker 2: now with TikTok. Some of the words are going to

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Speaker 2: stick around, some of them aren't.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I also wonder if they're having to like if

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Speaker 3: we're seeing this moment of exploding you know, slang that

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Speaker 3: is like kind of extra inscrutable because everybody, like the

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Speaker 3: as miles as you were talking about, like what were

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Speaker 3: the words that we said to like define ourselves away

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Speaker 3: from like previous generations. It was a lot of like swearing, right.

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Speaker 1: Like yeah, you know just to this day, yeah, terrible, terrible, no.

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Speaker 3: But now the fucking president like swears and like the

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Speaker 3: vice pread you know, they're constantly swearing. So like I

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Speaker 3: feel like you need new tools that aren't just this

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Speaker 3: standard old tools of like saying bad words. But like

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Speaker 3: you have to like create your own sort of aggressive

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Speaker 3: words that like won't be used by the president, you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean. Yeah, I wonder if that that

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Speaker 3: is pushing the young people to like have to get

434
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Speaker 3: extra creative and like create new ways of speaking, because

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Speaker 3: literally everybody says.

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Speaker 1: For everything's on the table.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're kind of right that like absurdism

438
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 2: is the only option here, and the importance of identity

439
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 2: formation because young people are always trying to build a

440
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 2: shared identity for themselves that's different from the identity of adults,

441
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 2: because they're trying to figure out who they are in

442
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 2: the world.

443
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 1: That's normal.

444
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 2: That's why young people are always the ones that are

445
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 2: coming up with slang, whereas old people have a crystallized

446
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 2: idea of who they are and what language is. But

447
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 2: in a world where I think things are overly structured,

448
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 2: like through algorithms which force feed us like the content

449
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 2: that makes them money, and through like I think society

450
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 2: is structuring things a lot more. But at the same time,

451
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 2: we have this uncertainty of about what's going on, and

452
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,199
Speaker 2: then we turn to obsurdism in the same way, I

453
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 2: think you're right to point out dadaism in like the

454
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,199
Speaker 2: nineteen tens. I think that's a really good analogy. There

455
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 2: was a kind of that period of uncertainty going on

456
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:10,880
Speaker 2: as well.

457
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's take a quick break now that you've said

458
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 3: something I said was a good point for just let people,

459
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 3: you know, rest with that, think about.

460
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: Something a good point too.

461
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 3: I know. Yeah, we're fucking killing it high flight you

462
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,199
Speaker 3: so hard. What's the score right now? Just text me

463
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 3: the score. We're going to take a quick break. We'll

464
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 3: be back to continue talking about this, and we're back.

465
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 3: We're back and yeah, so first of all, I think,

466
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 3: like this seems like a great corner. I just want

467
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 3: to congratulate you, like just such a good time, such

468
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 3: a wealth of material. It's like, you know, you're trying

469
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 3: to study a culture, like it's just like the Internet

470
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 3: is like a real time live like gig where you

471
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 3: can just like watch all of the things happening, all

472
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 3: of the different tools being used by the culture that

473
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 3: you're studying. There, there's definitely, as Miles you alluded to,

474
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 3: like there we see a lot of stories about education

475
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,439
Speaker 3: sliding in the United States and that being associated with

476
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 3: how people use language or just like I get I

477
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 3: guess everything just gets associated with like well, this this

478
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,719
Speaker 3: generation is bad, just look at them. But I don't know,

479
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 3: I feel like that's a time honor tradition that happens

480
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 3: with every every generation. But this generation is particularly screwed,

481
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 3: but not not because of Italian brain rot.

482
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 1: I would asume, Yeah, well, I think just to like

483
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: preface all that, like there's this, you know, the group

484
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: that comes out like with the Nation's report Card, like

485
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 1: if you know the Nation's report Card dot gov, which

486
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: is like a congressional you know, congression funded thing where

487
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,959
Speaker 1: they assess just sort of like what the educational system

488
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 1: is like and how students are performing. Like the most

489
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,479
Speaker 1: recent one was pretty bleak. They're basically saying like twelfth

490
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: graders have like they are reading at their lowest level

491
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 1: since this even process began of assessings in nineteen ninety two,

492
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 1: and the math scores are as as the lowest they've

493
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 1: been in twenty years. And I think, you know, a

494
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 1: lot of people want to point to different things. They'll

495
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 1: be like, well, it's the pandemic lockdowns, or it's social media,

496
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: or it's the dang fucking skibbitty toilet nonsense that's doing

497
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: it all. But again, we've seen these trends sort of

498
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: they predate COVID and a lot of these other things

499
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: because I think, you know, there's been a systematic defunding

500
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: of public education and now we have like a literal

501
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: villain from entertainment wrestling who doesn't know AI from a

502
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: one stake sauce sort of at the wheel. So don't

503
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 1: see much happening to that trend. But I think again,

504
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: there's like this a cycle, but right now it does

505
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: kind of fit with the sort of bleak assessment that, yes,

506
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: while our education system is in a pretty dark era

507
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 1: right now, it's not always like this thing to lay

508
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 1: at the feet of just basic like and that's why

509
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: they talk in this way where I don't understand the words.

510
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 1: Back when I was working at the Triangle Shape shirtwaist factory,

511
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: we weren't talking like that.

512
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: Maybe one of my hottest takes is that literacy is

513
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 2: a little bit of a construct. I think it, to

514
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 2: be clear. I think it's incredibly important we should have

515
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: incredible literacy rates in math education and all that really

516
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 2: does matter, but also it's a metric of how proficient

517
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: we are in the medium of reading, which is sort

518
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 2: of let's be really honest with ourselves in the cultural moment,

519
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 2: it's sort of a dying medium, and we also are

520
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 2: facing and consuming content in other mediums like algorithms, and

521
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 2: I think these Skippity generation kids are more literate in

522
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 2: the algorithmic medium than a lot of boomers are. They

523
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 2: know like sort of oh, this looks AI generated, and

524
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 2: boomers are getting tricks by like Ai slop Jesus shrimp

525
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 2: on Facebook in twenty twenty two. They don't know what's

526
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 2: happening at all. The boomers do understand algorithms nearly as

527
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 2: well as Jen Alfa does. So I would say there's

528
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 2: a high literacy in a different medium because that medium

529
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: is more president in our society. Unfortunately, that does mean

530
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 2: a decreased maybe literacy, and I think it is related.

531
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: Because we're consuming algorithms, we are less literally. I think

532
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 2: that's probably true. But it also has to do with

533
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 2: the role of media in our society, and books shouldn't

534
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 2: be the only paragon of epistemic wealth in our society.

535
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 2: Of like information that we are consuming, we should be

536
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: literal in all forms of media. So that means I

537
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 2: literally think there should be classes in how to look

538
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 2: at TikTok, and at the same time, there should be

539
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 2: classes in how to read books because of the more

540
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 2: different types of information we can consume, the better it

541
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 2: is overall.

542
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: So are you necessarily saying like it's overblown that literis

543
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: like reading comprehensives, Like you're just saying there, maybe zoom

544
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: out a bit, because.

545
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 2: I don't want to say anything that could be construed

546
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 2: as I don't think it's important to read in them,

547
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 2: and I think we should really have good literacy rates,

548
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 2: but I think we should also be paying equal attention

549
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 2: to being literally in algorithms. And I think like media

550
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 2: literacy is something people talk about but as a buzzword,

551
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 2: and they don't really understand what that means to really

552
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: be fluent in what it means to engage online and

553
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 2: to go viral because there are so many like outside

554
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: forces manipulating our understanding of reality in the online space,

555
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 2: literal government psyops, there is just AI flooding things. You

556
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 2: don't know what's real and what's not real, And it's

557
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 2: that kind of literacy where you can understand how to engage.

558
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 3: Right, So you're saying, just sorry not to take us back,

559
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 3: but you're saying that that Jesus made out of shrimp

560
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 3: was not real. That wasn't actually.

561
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 1: Just it looks just exactly like that looks so much.

562
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 2: I think whenever we talk about kids not being literate

563
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 2: in books, we should also be talking about boomers not

564
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: being literate on TikTok.

565
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, or TikTok filtered down to Facebook, which.

566
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: Right right to facebooks, which is like diluted TikTok slottery.

567
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, some of the worst.

568
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do. Like so, I feel like etymology sometimes

569
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 3: gives us these weird like windows into history speaking of boomers.

570
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 3: Like lately, I've been pointing out how dumb I feel

571
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 3: when I use the word movies ever since I realized

572
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 3: what that word like, the etymology of that. Like we

573
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 3: joke about all people calling movies talkies right because they're like,

574
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 3: god damn, that moving picture just talked, but not realizing

575
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 3: the reason we call them movies is because god damn

576
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 3: that picture just moved.

577
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: It's like fucking things moving kill it.

578
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 3: Are there other words like that where they like give

579
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 3: you a portal into just like how different people were,

580
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 3: like either stupid or simpler, or just like how different perception.

581
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I was just reflecting on Instagram reels, like

582
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 2: what's the real? Real used to be a film reel,

583
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: which was a literal like spool of film that was

584
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: reeled around like a fishing reel, and then that got

585
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 2: abstracted to the sense of this clip that you watch,

586
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 2: and then that got abstracted to the thing you scroll

587
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 2: on Instagram meals. And in fact, now that I just said,

588
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: the word scroll, scroll comes from unfurling like a scroll

589
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: like the field. Like that's still how I consume Instagram.

590
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 2: But yeah on skull, Yeah, use your wooden dowels.

591
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: What do we have today?

592
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 3: Yeah?

593
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 2: Or a podcast being iPod plus broadcast, broadcast being a

594
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 2: style of communication where you disseminate information like it used

595
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: to be broadcast seeding and agriculture, which is a style

596
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: of dispersing seeds. So like this agricultural metaphor goes all

597
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 2: the way back and influences the word podcast. I don't know,

598
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 2: turn up the volume. We don't often turn a knob

599
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 2: anymore or hang up the phone. I often don't hang

600
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 2: things anymore. Like that, we have these sort of vestiges

601
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 2: in our language, and that's kind of what's compelling to

602
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: me about etomology that it tells this story about who

603
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 2: we were in the past and how we've evolved as

604
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: a culture.

605
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. One thing, just going through some of

606
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 3: your posts on butterfly.

607
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 2: Wait, let me stop you on the word post, Like,

608
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 2: why do we call it a post?

609
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: What's up with that?

610
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 2: It used to be like physically something was nailing to

611
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 2: a post.

612
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, wall in the town I was just noticing

613
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 3: this actually made me sad. I was noticing at my

614
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 3: doctor's office, like in the hospital, the waiting room they

615
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 3: called the town square because they're like trying to appropriate

616
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 3: I guess the language of community and stuff, which I

617
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 3: feel like is all over the place. That like, as

618
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 3: we're being kind of converted into these little, you know,

619
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 3: cellular beings of like consumption and you know that just

620
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 3: being isolated from one another, I feel like that people

621
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 3: are like trying, or like corporations are like trying to

622
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 3: just like gesture at like old style community things to

623
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 3: just be like, hey, guys, like we're we're all part

624
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 3: of the same community hanging out in a town square. Wait,

625
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 3: so hosting things to one another? Would you like check

626
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 3: in for employment then like okay, have a seat in

627
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 3: the town square in the town Square and you're like

628
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 3: these chairs. I was like yeah, and then every time

629
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 3: he just sits there and waits for their name to

630
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 3: come up on a screen.

631
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of like community buzzwords. I

632
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 2: don't know in the content creation space. I'm so sick

633
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 2: of the word authenticity, Like we all know we want authenticity,

634
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: but they throw around that word like like it doesn't

635
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: mean anything anymore.

636
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the part that I'm really like in hearing

637
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: you talk about algorithms, and also just like how algorithms

638
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: are informing how people speak that you know, like so

639
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: there is so much power in these algorithms and some

640
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: people I think maybe are aware of it, and maybe

641
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: others somewhat aware but to a lesser extent, maybe not

642
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: fully understanding, like that these are being manipulated for someone

643
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: else's gain a lot of the time. But like you know,

644
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: I was struck by your ted talk when you talked

645
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: about how like algorithms find a way to quickly like

646
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: go get people into this higher compartmentalization, and that the

647
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: algorithm point of these algorithms is to sort you more easily,

648
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: and that the idea that you know when you get

649
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: into something and you're saying, like, oh, I'm into cottage core,

650
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: gork core fashion or whatever. Now it's like like you said,

651
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: you're like the algorithm actually gave you that identity based

652
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: on what you were interacting with. And that's like a

653
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: really just sort of mind fuck kind of thing too,

654
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: that people are also chasing algorithmic words to a get

655
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: their content we've seen more or to be more popular.

656
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: And I see this a lot in especially like sports

657
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: talk on YouTube, or I just see it a lot

658
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: in any YouTube where it's about commentary, where people know

659
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: that using certain words or certain talking points or certain

660
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: topics as outrage bait is just how you get more eyeballs,

661
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: like on your shit. But it's no longer sincere expression,

662
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: because now you are completely chasing the algorithmic goal of relevance.

663
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: And like you know, when I like, I'm curious now

664
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: like no one is just saying how they feel in

665
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: certain against certain genre like YouTube content, No one exactly

666
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: says how they feel. They just see they just say

667
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: what they believe will get increased engagement. How do you

668
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: see like that playing out? Just sort of as we

669
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: go down the road, like as sort of this way

670
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: of thinking becomes more consolidated or like one track because

671
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: it's it used to be it's like, well, this person's

672
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: interesting and people are interested in what they're saying. And

673
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: now it's like, no, I need to say these five

674
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: words to get my shit up and the algorithmic ratings

675
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: and then that's how I will become relevant.

676
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean we're definitely performing for the algorithm.

677
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 2: There's this idea of like signaling not only to your audience,

678
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 2: but like using words as metadata, because the algorithm reads

679
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 2: everything when you upload it. It knows that you're using

680
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 2: certain words and will use those words to target your audience.

681
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 2: Metadata is and just like hashtags anymore, it's anything that

682
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 2: gives information about content and the video itself. The words

683
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: you use in the video are information. So it all

684
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: becomes part of this loop of the algorithm being able

685
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 2: to categorize more, identify more, pin you down as a

686
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 2: person better. Right, And we are playing into that. I

687
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 2: will say, like people have always been performing and playing

688
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 2: into the like I think TV broadcasters are really fake,

689
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: Like they don't they're performing.

690
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: I don't know anyone who speaks like this ATAM right.

691
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: They're performing for the idea of how you're supposed to

692
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: talk on TV, and I think influencers are performing for

693
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 2: the idea of how you're supposed to talk on social media.

694
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 2: When I write a book, I'm speaking in formal English,

695
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 2: which is not really how I speak in normal life,

696
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: but I'm performing for the idea of how you're supposed

697
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: to write a book. All of it's a little bit fake.

698
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 2: I think it's okay to reconcile that fakeness with recognizing

699
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 2: that we are going to communicate differently in each medium.

700
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 2: That being said, let's take a step back and look

701
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 2: at what these algorithms are doing. And yeah, it's really

702
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 2: weird that they run under a system called techno feudalism

703
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 2: where they simultaneously like are we create the product, we

704
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 2: consume the product, and we are the product. And all

705
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 2: they do is they find more ways to put us

706
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,760
Speaker 2: into boxes and understand how we fit into this product space,

707
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 2: and everything is commodified. All of our language is evolving

708
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 2: through this con humorous lens of what can make the

709
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 2: algorithms money.

710
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 3: Just extract value through like you know, observation and like

711
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 3: selling information about you or selling something directly to you,

712
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 3: like and you're just like kind of they're dancing for them.

713
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 2: You can't communicate without generating value for them. To go

714
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 2: viral is to help the.

715
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 3: Platform, right, And that's what and that's what excites me

716
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 3: about this is that growing value for Yeah, what value?

717
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: What could we be talking about right now, Adam, Just

718
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: so I can maybe up our algorithmic score, which would

719
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: be talking about.

720
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 2: All right, I think we're past the summer of the

721
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,959
Speaker 2: machula boo, do buy chocolate, But I don't mind saying

722
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 2: one more time, just in case.

723
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 6: We try to much a little bit a little bit

724
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 6: of chocolate. Uh huh, trying average like three of those

725
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 6: six And to be clear, six seven doesn't mean anything, right.

726
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 2: It's kind of like skimmitty, It's just funny.

727
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I just looking back looking back at as

728
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 7: I was mentioning some of your posts on like the

729
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 7: origin of butterfly names, because that's something that I.

730
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,959
Speaker 3: Have a seven year old. Seven year olds are very

731
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 3: curious about, Like this is a naturally fascinating subject matter

732
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 3: for just I think all humans, and like my seven

733
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,760
Speaker 3: year old this morning was asking me for the origin

734
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 3: of fifty cents name because his like art book had

735
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 3: a piece of art that had like fifty cents head

736
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 3: on a cockroach's body. He's like, who's that? Why is

737
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 3: he called fifty cent? Like they just you know, they

738
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 3: constantly want to know why is everything called everything?

739
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: But a textbook has a fifty cent bug me?

740
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 3: No, No, it's like an art It's like a street

741
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 3: art book that we before him. He didn't like. It's

742
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 3: not through school, got it, got it, got out when

743
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,760
Speaker 3: curriculum is taken off. Yeah, things are fucking cool now

744
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 3: in a second grade. But butterflies come up a lot

745
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 3: because every time we see a butterfly come through, I

746
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 3: need to know name and the derivation. I was looking

747
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 3: at one of your posts and uh so too. Two

748
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,280
Speaker 3: names that I think are like interesting little portals into history.

749
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 3: One is California's Sister, which I just thought was a

750
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 3: cool name because I just think it's cool to call

751
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 3: people brother and sister, and uh it's but it's actually

752
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 3: just like a nun. People are like that. That looks

753
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 3: like a nun's habit because it's black and white, and

754
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 3: which is I guess a window into history when like

755
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 3: forty percent of all humans you'd encounter on a daily

756
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 3: basis for like priests and nuns. So that was like

757
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 3: the only recdude, I was.

758
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 2: I was thinking about the word habit the other day.

759
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 2: It's crazy that you brought that up, because habit like

760
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: like a routine, like a thing that we do that

761
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: comes from the sense of like clothing that like nuns

762
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 2: would wear.

763
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 3: It was just like so weird.

764
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 2: It's like a routine that of them to put on

765
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 2: I have Fun's habit. Everyone to start calling that a

766
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 2: habit to do something as a routine, it crazy.

767
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 3: It's just nuns all the way down. When you go

768
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 3: back to history.

769
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: They were the first drag queens given us the culture

770
00:37:59,200 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: back then.

771
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:05,919
Speaker 3: It's the worst quentin, It's just the least. But then

772
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 3: the other one that was like the opposite of that

773
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 3: was painted lady, which I always thought was just like

774
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 3: a pretty sounding word, but it's a historical word for

775
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 3: sex workers, which yeah, so you have to.

776
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 2: Like understand or flies in both extremes.

777
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you have to understand history through the prism

778
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 3: that people were I feel like, usually starving, usually slightly drunk,

779
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 3: and just ravenously horny at all times, and so like

780
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 3: painted Lady, they were just.

781
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 2: Like what's really different?

782
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, yeah, yeah, I think just less starving maybe

783
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 3: and less drunk for sure, but still incredibly horny. But

784
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 3: the fact that they saw a butterfly and we're like.

785
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 2: That speaks to their reality. I think what we name things,

786
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 2: it really is an indicator of what's going on.

787
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 4: You know.

788
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,439
Speaker 2: If we're naming things absurdly right now, that's because there's

789
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 2: something deeply dissonant with our current understanding of society. And

790
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: so I don't think six' seven is like some arbage.

791
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 2: THING i think it's you, know it's reacting to the

792
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 2: current state of.

793
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 3: Modernity, yeah or in the official version of, things it's

794
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 3: actually just the height of the president and that's why

795
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 3: they're referencing six seven And takashi six. Wrong.

796
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: Cool. YEAH i think one thing is just so funny

797
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: to me is like we're looking at how eleven year

798
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 1: olds talk and then being like society's, cooked and you're,

799
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: like they're fucking, eleven you know WHAT i?

800
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 2: Mean there's this justw.

801
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 3: Eleven year old's talking is how eleven year old's, talk

802
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 3: and everybody starts using.

803
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 2: It and YET i think there's something deeper to what

804
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 2: these eleven year olds find. Compelling if you look at skibbity,

805
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 2: toilet for, example it's a story diegetically narrated through the

806
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 2: lens of a camera headed, android and these camera headed

807
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 2: creatures are interacting with other cameras like with, iPads and

808
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 2: they're fighting this fictional series of. Toilets but what that

809
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 2: means is it's a state of technology versus the basist

810
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 2: thing you're taught is like the bad where bad things,

811
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 2: go which is the. Toilet so it's like this law force. Versus,

812
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 2: yeah well it literally if you're An Michael bay, version

813
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 2: you're like, shit and we should be doing a critical

814
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 2: reading of skivity. TOILET i think you're an iPad in

815
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 2: a state of. Technology like you you understand that like

816
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 2: this is some deep reflection of their state of.

817
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: Reality.

818
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 3: YEAH i was reading a lot about death earlier this,

819
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 3: year and just like you, know our fear of, death

820
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 3: and historically it's very connected to shit because it's like

821
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 3: that's the most base like human like animal body thing that. Happens,

822
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 3: though like you can't deny that you're just an animal

823
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 3: that's going to die in the context of, shit you,

824
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 3: know it's just like so far from anything. Else so

825
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 3: that that's. Interesting also that like that is you know

826
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 3: this higher level like robot camera headed thing that is

827
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 3: like what people feel like they're in evolving. Toward and

828
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 3: then the enemy is head in toilet like human animal,

829
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 3: dead you, know dying shit. Body.

830
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 2: INTERESTING i feel, like, Yeah i've never thought about this,

831
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 2: lens that skimpy toilet is a confrontation of her own.

832
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 2: MORTALITY i think that's a very poignant point you.

833
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 1: RAISED i WAS i saw like early case studies When

834
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: picassa was doing The guernica AND i felt like there

835
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: was a skibbity toilet in. There replaced it with a conforded.

836
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: Mother but, yeah this.

837
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 2: Is shoes right.

838
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 3: Now that's, crazy you, Are, yeah damn.

839
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 2: Crazy, YEAH i should invest in skibbity shoes as. Well,

840
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 2: yeah or maybe just put make skibbity toilet like The.

841
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 2: GUERNICA i feel like that crossover you put. Scar really

842
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 2: the point is that it's. Synonymous it's the horrors of

843
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 2: war and technology and. MODERNIZATION i think that's the lens

844
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 2: to read it through. That you know, why it is

845
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: this period of time when we look At Marcel douchamp's,

846
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 2: fountain you, know that's a urinal and we go back

847
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 2: to we're talking about dataism in the modern. State it's very.

848
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 3: Related, YEAH i. Agree let's take one more quick. Break

849
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 3: we'll be right, back and we're, back all. Right just

850
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:15,240
Speaker 3: one last. Question as people are facing the existential horrors

851
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,280
Speaker 3: of LIKE, ai we've seen people try to like create

852
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 3: a robot slur of like, clanker WHICH i. Don't i've

853
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 3: seen people be, LIKE i like, It it's gonna.

854
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: WORK i.

855
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 3: DON'T i don't know that it is going to, Work but,

856
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 3: like how how do you feel like language is evolving

857
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 3: both in how people like obviously the corporations really want

858
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 3: us to love and EMBRACE, ai and THEN i think

859
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 3: there's probably like some deep seated discomfort around, that and

860
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 3: THEN ai is going to change how we use. Language

861
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 3: how are you thinking about?

862
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 2: That this comes back to that THING i was talking

863
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 2: about vibes and the cultural moment and how language is

864
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: not some arbitrary, thing but it responds to greater. Pressures

865
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,240
Speaker 2: clanker is here because there is a greater societal concern

866
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 2: about the rising role OF aa in our. Culture that's

867
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 2: that's why we Are since earlier earl this, year people

868
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 2: were like trying to find us slur for. ROBOTS i

869
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: remember tweets people saying, like, oh we need a slur for,

870
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 2: robots and then clinker went. VIRAL i think in part

871
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 2: it went viral because it was used an analogy to

872
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 2: THE n, word and that generated more, comments which are more,

873
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 2: engagement which pushes it further in the.

874
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,919
Speaker 1: Algorithm but all those people are, like, DAMN i really

875
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: really love using a, slur, right.

876
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 2: The slur and then the discourse about how it's being

877
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 2: used as a slur also helps push the word. Further

878
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 2: and it's all in a kind of a positive feedback

879
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 2: loop of words getting pushed into the mainstream by influencers

880
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 2: who are using it because they know it's going viral

881
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 2: and just a. Trend AND i call it the engagement.

882
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 2: Treadmill you, know there's like a word it's. Trending people

883
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 2: use the word because it's, trending becomes more. Trendy that's

884
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:50,879
Speaker 2: like the cycle we're.

885
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 3: In yeah, Right, yeah it's a fun one, too and

886
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,879
Speaker 3: we enjoy it and we all love it and we're.

887
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 3: Excited we're excited for the.

888
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: Future it feels like so much energy to be like,

889
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: clankers like as if it's that, Impressive like it's individualized

890
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: enough to be like that clanker over. There it's LIKE

891
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: ai just fucking. Sucks but again that's your generational take.

892
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 1: Too you're anthropomorphizing, it WHICH i think is. WEIRD i

893
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: don't think we should be treating these these things as.

894
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 2: Humans and it's strange to me that you, know it's

895
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 2: designed Chat schipet's designed like a text messaging. Conversation it's

896
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 2: designed to trick you into. Thinking it uses first person,

897
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:27,839
Speaker 2: pronouns it's going to mirror your linguistic. Responses. Uh and

898
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: because it's psychologically designed to trick you into thinking that

899
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 2: it's human so that you believe it more or you

900
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 2: interact with it, more and we kind OF i Think

901
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 2: clanker elevates, it if, anything to a near human, level

902
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 2: which is so strange to.

903
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: ME i think it's again LIKE i was, saying like

904
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: it makes it seem more impressive than it, is because, like,

905
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 1: no that's. This we're not talking about like the FILM

906
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: ai or something or something out of Like Isaac asimov's

907
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,399
Speaker 1: Like Worst nightmares or. Something this is just like people

908
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,879
Speaker 1: are falling for like this chat based party trick.

909
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,240
Speaker 2: Thing, yeah and, yeah it's. Sue there are sub. Credits

910
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 2: there's like MY r slash my boyfriend IS ai OR

911
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 2: r SLASH ai, soulmates where people genuinely have fallen in

912
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 2: love with THEIR ai companions and it's like on. Ironic

913
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 2: they really think this is like a real, thing and

914
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 2: they're like being. Persecuted like, so, LIKE i think part

915
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,760
Speaker 2: of these concerns With clanker are genuinely founded and people

916
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 2: EXPERIENCING ai psychosis and having a shattered grip on reality

917
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 2: because you're interacting with machine which is trained to be

918
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 2: in a positive feedback loop of reinforcing your biases and

919
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 2: your cognitive, fallacies and then you think it's.

920
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 3: Real it's, love hete you, know LIKE i get mad

921
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 3: at him AND i call him, clanker but he lets

922
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 3: me use it because he's, like we're actually it's.

923
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: Okay i'm married my Daughters Havel, Clanker so you, Know

924
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: i'm all right IF i say, that you know, WHAT

925
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 1: i go to The clanker, cookouts you know WHAT i. Mean, so,

926
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: Yeah i'm. Good i'm.

927
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 3: Good but, yeah it's a part of the same illusion

928
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 3: where it's actually just the forces of capital with like

929
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 3: a mask on that makes it like clever and you,

930
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 3: know friendly and kiss your ass like. NonStop that's Basically,

931
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 3: yeah that's.

932
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 2: A common theme of modern language is the forces of.

933
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 3: Capitalism, yeah, yeah all, Right, Well, adam wonderful having you

934
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 3: on the. Show where can people find? You follow you

935
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 3: find your? Book read you all that good.

936
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 2: Stuff i'm etymology nerd on, platforms BUT i think my

937
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 2: Book i'll Go speak says it. All hopefully more people

938
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 2: are still reading.

939
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 3: Books, yeah go check it out. Anywhere go to a you,

940
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:31,240
Speaker 3: know local bookseller if you, can but it's it's everywhere

941
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 3: books are. Sold is there a work of media that

942
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 3: you've been.

943
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 2: Enjoying, yeah, Well i've been trying to connect with the

944
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 2: non algorithmic, stuff having spent so much time on, algorithms

945
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:43,439
Speaker 2: trying to reconnect more of the. Album i've been listening

946
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 2: to a lot Of stevie wonder. RECENTLY i think more

947
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 2: people should listen to songs in the key of, life

948
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 2: such an.

949
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: Album, yeah what are you like it on that?

950
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 2: Album if we're talking about, vibes that is a vibe.

951
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 2: Album that is it's such a message of. POSITIVITY i,

952
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 2: THINK i mean kind of go through like all of,

953
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 2: life like, pain, breakup but he wraps in this message

954
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 2: of love AND i think it's really beautiful and it's

955
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: also influenced so much you know, else like The Mario

956
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 2: kart soundtrack is based on. It The Gangs Paradise. Paradise yeah.

957
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,720
Speaker 2: Yeah the song Saturn by says that comes From saturn

958
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,919
Speaker 2: By Stevie. Wondering so he's influenced our, culture but he's

959
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 2: done through uh this in a message of like, love

960
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 2: AND i think that's really beautiful and it is possible

961
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 2: to positively influence. Culture SO i think it's a good.

962
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: Album, yeah all, Right i'll give it to. Him he's all,

963
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: Right i'll check out The.

964
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,399
Speaker 3: Wonder, Guy, Miles where did people find? You is there

965
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 3: a workimedia you've been?

966
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: Enjoying, wait we see the guy who was on stage

967
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: THE mtv VM a is Doing Wild Wow. West.

968
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah that's where you Know i'm. From.

969
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 1: Guy, yeah he's a. Musician, ALSO i thought he almost

970
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: got exploded by an on stage.

971
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 8: Pyrotechnic, dude do your own. Research he's actually on right.

972
00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 8: Right will also borrowed From Stevie. WONDER i just saw

973
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 8: him do a sick. Freestyle the guy who had the

974
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 8: really supportive. Fans, yeah that looked kind of had weird

975
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 8: hands in that one.

976
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 3: Video Will Will Smith Will, yeah, Yeah i'm pretty sure

977
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 3: the part that he borrowed From stevie wonder was where

978
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 3: he goes.

979
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 1: Wiki wow Wow wicky Wow. WOW i don't know a

980
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: ton About, yeah find me everywhere at miles Of. Gray

981
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: check me talking about ninety day fiance on four to

982
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: twenty Day fiance. One one work of media like this

983
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 1: post on blue sky k nibs k and ibbs dot

984
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 1: be scout Out. SOCIAL i just said one of the

985
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: one of the downsides of impulsively getting my husband a

986
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: python For Father's day has been opening up the fridge

987
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 1: to this sort of. Thing and it's like a normal

988
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: shot of a, refrigerator but you look inside and just

989
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,879
Speaker 1: box just says mice to, go one frozen medium. Rat

990
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: just mice to.

991
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 3: Go such a funny and the design of the boxes

992
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 3: like it looks Like World war. Two, yeah it looks

993
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,760
Speaker 3: like A pixar thing like food.

994
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,399
Speaker 1: Fro it feels like a thing from The, simpsons or it's,

995
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 1: like nice to go your python's favorite brand of frozen.

996
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 3: Rat there you. Go let's see a. Workmedia i've been,

997
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 3: enjoying you, know weekends or fre to. Kids so we

998
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 3: Watched dunstan checks in this, weekend which we HAD i

999
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 3: had never SAW i missed that. ONE i think it

1000
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 3: came WHEN i was like sixteen, fifteen and SO i

1001
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 3: missed that the first time. Around but the kids were howling.

1002
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 1: Fun laughter of that. Movie.

1003
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 3: Dude great performance From George, Costanza Jayson, alexander like you,

1004
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 3: know with.

1005
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 1: Hair exactly a lot of.

1006
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 3: Fun don't, Forget. Paul you got kids and you're looking

1007
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 3: for a Fun it's like g rated and should not.

1008
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 3: Be there's lots of guns and weird. Shit but you,

1009
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,919
Speaker 3: know if you got kids who are over the age of, seven, There,

1010
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 3: yeah it's a good.

1011
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:51,280
Speaker 1: One, yeah everybody's.

1012
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 3: Smoking shout out to. History you can find me On

1013
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 3: twitter At Jack underscore O'Brien and On Blue sky A

1014
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 3: jack ich be the number. One you can find us

1015
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 3: On twitter And Blue sky At Daily. Zeitgeist we're at

1016
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 3: The Daily. Zeitgeist On. Instagram you can go to the

1017
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 3: description of this episode wherever you're listening to, it and

1018
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 3: at the bottom you will find the footnote, no which

1019
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 3: is where we link off to the information that we

1020
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 3: talked about in today's. Episode well also link off To adam's. Book.

1021
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 3: There we also link off to a song that we

1022
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 3: think you might. Enjoy, miles is there a song that

1023
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 3: you think people might.

1024
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: Enjoy, yeah this is a track From japanese beat maker Bug.

1025
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: Seed i've probably recommended a track or two of his,

1026
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,919
Speaker 1: before but this is just just makes solid boom bab

1027
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: instrumentals and for, somebody for people of a certain way.

1028
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: Age sometimes you play an instrumental in your car and

1029
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 1: you get to rap in and tap, in you know

1030
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 1: WHAT i. Mean so this is a track for, you

1031
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: but also just a really solid. Instrumental it JUST i don't.

1032
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: Know music is always very, transport, transportive. Transport it transports

1033
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: me to a wonderful era and boombab hip. HOP i love.

1034
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: You so this is Bug seed with the track a, spiral.

1035
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 3: Right we will link off to that in the footnote

1036
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 3: For The Daily Zeit guy is the production Of. iHeartRadio

1037
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 3: for more podcasts from My Heart, radio visit The iHeartRadio,

1038
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 3: App apple, podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite.

1039
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 3: Shows that is going to do it for us this,

1040
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 3: morning back this afternoon to tell you what is, trending

1041
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 3: and we'll talk to you all Then bye.

1042
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 1: Bye The Daily Zeit guys is executive produced By Catherine, long.

1043
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 2: Co produced By Bee, wang co produced By Victor.

1044
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: Wright co written by J m, mcnapp edited and engineered

1045
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: By Justin.

1046
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 3: Conner