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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 4: A toughs University PhD student was picked up off the

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Speaker 4: streets of Somerville, Massachusetts. We have a harrowing video of

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Speaker 4: what basically looks like a kidnapping. Three masked men are

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Speaker 4: picking up this student and putting her in an unmarked vehicle.

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Speaker 5: The guy who's filming.

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Speaker 4: It seems disturbed by what he's seeing and keeps saying,

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Speaker 4: can I see your faces?

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Speaker 5: How do I know that you are? How do I

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Speaker 5: know that you are police officers?

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Speaker 6: Like?

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Speaker 4: What is am I witnessing a kidnapping?

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Speaker 7: Here?

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Speaker 4: Because it very much does appear that he is witnessing

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Speaker 4: and kidnapping. Frankly, he is that is there, like there's

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Speaker 4: there's I guess you could call it an arrest, but

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Speaker 4: there have been no charges filed then, and that's what

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Speaker 4: we typically understand to be to be an arrest.

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Speaker 5: UH.

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Speaker 4: Now apparently last night we can put let's put up

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Speaker 4: D D three B. This is Meg not Bo's is

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Speaker 4: a Columbia Journalism Review UH journalists who also writes for

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Speaker 4: drop site News. This is a student in Alabama, Ali

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Speaker 4: Reza de to Rudy, who is PhD student at the

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Speaker 4: at Alabama, picked up off the street and as you

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Speaker 4: can see there, if you try to figure out where

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Speaker 4: he's being held now, it says under it's it is

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Speaker 4: it is currently undisclosed. No word of any charges. We

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Speaker 4: don't even know, like what he said, like what did

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Speaker 4: he use the word genocide in a tweet? Like we

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Speaker 4: don't we don't know exactly what he said to get

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Speaker 4: him thrown out. This is coming after you put up

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Speaker 4: D three unse O Chum, who is a Korean American

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Speaker 4: student at Columbia University in undergrad who has a permanent

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Speaker 4: legal resident, who has been in the country since she

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Speaker 4: was seven years old, was not a leader of the protests,

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Speaker 4: was not arrested as I don't think, as far as

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Speaker 4: I understand, during the during the protests, went to them

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Speaker 4: a couple of times, I guess, tweeted some things. And

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Speaker 4: she has had her According to her attorneys, she has

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Speaker 4: had her permanent legal residence status revoked and they have

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Speaker 4: been hunting her. They have been using signifificant federal assets

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Speaker 4: to try to find her. She suspected that this may

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Speaker 4: be happening and apparently has been moving around and they

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Speaker 4: have been unable to pick her up. At this point,

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Speaker 4: none of these people have been charged with a crime

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Speaker 4: all of them. Their only quote unquote crime appears to

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Speaker 4: be criticism of Israel's attack on Gaza and the US

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Speaker 4: support for that assault, which, by the way, since March second,

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Speaker 4: Israel has not allowed any food, water, medicine to get

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Speaker 4: into Gaza and it is creating famine like conditions and

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Speaker 4: has slaughtered more than three hundred children over the last

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Speaker 4: several days protesting that is enough to get them thrown

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Speaker 4: into the back of these cars or have to go

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Speaker 4: on the land.

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Speaker 3: As you can see, you know, the first person, Miss

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Speaker 3: Oz turk Is Apparently now she's a Turkish citizen, so

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Speaker 3: apparently her crime is that she is quote one of

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Speaker 3: several students who one of several author an opinion essay

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Speaker 3: published last March in Tufts University student newspaper. The essay

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Speaker 3: criticized university leaders for their response to demands and toughs

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Speaker 3: quote acknowledged the Palestinian genocide and divest itself with companies

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Speaker 3: to Israel. Mister Doroti who you mentioned, Ali Raza Dorati.

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Speaker 3: There's not even actually any record of anything that the

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Speaker 3: guy has done, and like you said, the other one

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Speaker 3: just attended a protest. This was again I need to

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Speaker 3: talk philosophically here. Do you see the number of agents

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Speaker 3: who are involved in teresting this lady? We don't have

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Speaker 3: better things to do here. I mean, look, I know,

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Speaker 3: I know you disagree, Ryan, but I want to see

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Speaker 3: those people applied to people who are in the country illegally,

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Speaker 3: because that's what quote mass deportation was supposed to be

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Speaker 3: about last time I checked, not you know, facilitating the

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Speaker 3: arrests of some student PhD student late. Look fine, I

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Speaker 3: mean this is where you and I have a disagreement,

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Speaker 3: probably like I do think people who are here in

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Speaker 3: the country on student visas and all that, you should be.

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Speaker 1: A little careful.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'm not saying you don't have rights and all that,

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Speaker 3: but you know, listen. But philosophically, when I go to

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Speaker 3: authoritarian countries or other countries, like I don't mouth off

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Speaker 3: about whatever. You know, whenever when I'm in China in

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Speaker 3: Tianaman Square, you know what I don't talk about. I

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Speaker 3: don't talk about the Tianaman Square mask here, but think

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Speaker 3: about that.

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Speaker 5: But think about that. Are we in authoritarian country?

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't think that we're quote in authoritarian country,

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Speaker 3: but I think common sense would dictate that whenever you're

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Speaker 3: in another country or a guest in that person's country,

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Speaker 3: you should generally try not to rock the boat.

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Speaker 5: I did.

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Speaker 4: I did a home exchange in France in twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 4: We had a French family stay in our house and

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Speaker 4: we stayed in their house for several weeks.

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Speaker 5: It was awesome.

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Speaker 1: If I France is an authoritarian country.

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Speaker 4: So at the time there was some I actually did

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Speaker 4: several shows from there where I was critical of the

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Speaker 4: French government for their handling of the situation and jer like,

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Speaker 4: should they have come in and rounded me up.

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Speaker 1: Well, they could have No, that's a point.

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Speaker 4: But there we have a visa process that we have

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Speaker 4: established for students and for tourists, and if you go

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Speaker 4: through that process, we grant you a student visa. And

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Speaker 4: as long as you follow the laws of our country

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Speaker 4: and you're following the remit of the visa that we

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Speaker 4: have given you, we have invited you into our country

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Speaker 4: and you are spending money in our country. And if

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Speaker 4: you don't violate that, for us to arrest you because

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Speaker 4: Israel or some pro Israel organization has put you on

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Speaker 4: a list of people that they think are mean to Israel,

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Speaker 4: it breaks the contract that.

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Speaker 5: We with them.

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Speaker 1: Totally agree with you.

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Speaker 3: There's no reason for us to be doing this stupid

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Speaker 3: I'm more philosophically.

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Speaker 1: People are like, oh, they have a right to be here.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, well, not.

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Speaker 4: Really, but we gave them the right to be there

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Speaker 4: by creating a visa process that they that they went through.

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Speaker 5: And also people may not understand this.

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Speaker 4: One of the main things that keeps our trade deficit

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Speaker 4: lower than it would be otherwise is that millions of

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Speaker 4: people come from overseas to the United States to study

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Speaker 4: here and to do tourism here. If you look at

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Speaker 4: the trade deficit that we have with Canada, it's cut

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Speaker 4: like in half by Canadian tourists and students who come

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Speaker 4: here and spend. And also many of them pay like

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Speaker 4: full freight to go to our state and private universities,

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Speaker 4: and so they're subsidizing the American students like American University,

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Speaker 4: Like it's like eighty five thousand dollars a year or

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Speaker 4: something for the full freight. Americans don't pay that. You

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Speaker 4: know who pays is like the rich Egyptians emiratis.

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Speaker 3: I don't disagree with the word you're saying, but that

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Speaker 3: also raises a lot of questions.

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Speaker 1: Then why is the student debt crisis so high?

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Speaker 5: And why exactly expensive?

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Speaker 3: Right exactly now? You know, we can debate this foreign

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Speaker 3: student thing all day long. I think what we can

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Speaker 3: both agree on is the appropriation of immense federal resources

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Speaker 3: to hunting some South Korean lady who uh so South

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Speaker 3: Korea was seven years old and attended the Columbia University protests.

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Speaker 3: It's just like not very high on I think most

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Speaker 3: people's list of what they thought of for mass deportation.

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Speaker 3: And then when you go when you look at mass

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Speaker 3: deportation figures of the actual criminal or legal aliens who

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Speaker 3: are being deported. The numbers are exactly the same as

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Speaker 3: they were under the Biden administration, and or roughly the

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Speaker 3: same now, you know, but.

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Speaker 4: I also don't think I don't think she should have

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Speaker 4: to watch her mouth. She's a legal permanent resident. And

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Speaker 4: the difference between US and China and US in Russia

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Speaker 4: is that you don't have to watch your mouth here.

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Speaker 4: You say whatever you want as a citizen.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's where I that's where I just disagree. Now

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying that again. We're talking about should and can.

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Speaker 5: Okay, but what if you're a citizen?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but you previously were, you were your naturalized citizen,

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Speaker 4: so now you're a citizen. You've had a lot of

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Speaker 4: Republicans or Trump administration officials say, well, okay, yes, they're resident.

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Speaker 4: But if we would have known that once they became

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Speaker 4: a permanent resident that they would go and protest Israel,

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Speaker 4: we would not have given them their permanent residency. Therefore,

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Speaker 4: we're taking their green card, and then we're taking the

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Speaker 4: visa they had before that, and we're going to jail

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Speaker 4: them and we're going to send them to El Salvador.

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Speaker 4: We're going to send them back to wherever they're wherever

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Speaker 4: they're from. Why would that not also apply to citizens?

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Speaker 4: So we gave you your citizenship, but if we wouldn't

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Speaker 4: have given it to you, if we would have known

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Speaker 4: that you were going to be critical of Israel.

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Speaker 3: CAZA is very different on citizenship, Stripping United A citizen

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Speaker 3: and citizenship, as I understand, this is.

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Speaker 5: A little harder.

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Speaker 3: No, not little harder, it's like they're definitely harder. I

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Speaker 3: don't actually think you can strip United Sate citizens.

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Speaker 4: No, you can if if they if they, if you know,

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Speaker 4: it's like in your passport, if you open it, if

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Speaker 4: it's serve in a foreign military except for the IDEF.

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Speaker 1: If you you know, they.

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Speaker 4: Say, if you lied to get your citizenship, that's right,

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Speaker 4: if you would. What they would say is you told

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Speaker 4: us you support and defend the United States, and here

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Speaker 4: you are criticizing Israel.

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Speaker 5: So how dare you you lied?

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Speaker 3: I think the difference, the difference in particular on these

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Speaker 3: student visas and these permanent residents is for me, the appropriation,

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Speaker 3: like I said, of federal resources purely based on speech

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Speaker 3: grounds with no criminal behavior, is one that I think

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Speaker 3: most people will say, yeah, that's pretty messed up, right,

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Speaker 3: And because if you look in the past, for any

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Speaker 3: of these, like deporting based on support for foreign it

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Speaker 3: was like pretty extreme stuff.

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Speaker 1: You know, if we're going to the World War two era.

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Speaker 3: You literally had to be a actual like pro Nazi,

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Speaker 3: like on the radio giving a speech like we need

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Speaker 3: to support Hitler. For you, the Roosevelt administration or others

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Speaker 3: to prosecute you for treason actually even on speech grounds.

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Speaker 3: I was looking back, was recently reading a book about this.

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Speaker 3: Even then, a lot of those cases had immense difficulty

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Speaker 3: getting on a first minut back. That's with the citizens

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Speaker 3: that we're talking about here, and that was even at

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Speaker 3: a time of Kramatsu when you had Japanese Americans literally

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Speaker 3: slaved in a camp, you know, illegally by their government.

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Speaker 3: But in this particular case, the point is is that

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Speaker 3: they are using extraordinary measures of the United States. You

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Speaker 3: know what treaty exactly what is the State Department? The

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Speaker 3: Secretary of State can designate any individual here and pulling

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Speaker 3: their visa and then using ice and like, I mean,

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Speaker 3: do you know how much money it costs to like

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Speaker 3: arrest someone and fly them to Louisiana. I don't know

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Speaker 3: what tens of thousands of dollars just to support these

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Speaker 3: type of operations. I think that's the big problem that

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Speaker 3: we see right here, and most people can agree that

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Speaker 3: it's obviously a stunt. And the worst is that it's

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Speaker 3: on behalf of a foreign government. And these lists of

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Speaker 3: all of these people, as you and I know, are

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Speaker 3: coming from these like pro Israel groups who have sat

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Speaker 3: there and scrubbed social media. It's sickening for me, you know,

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Speaker 3: to even watch because I have there's like these accounts

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Speaker 3: on Twitter stop anti Semitism or whatever, and I'll watch

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Speaker 3: them just like blow up some girl who like wrote

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Speaker 3: on Strava that she was like really upset about side

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Speaker 3: and she no word, she was like saw some annoying zie.

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Speaker 1: It's like, okay, whatever, all right.

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Speaker 3: People can post whatever they want on their social media

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Speaker 3: and they're like blowing up this lady's life. Or you know,

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Speaker 3: a flight attendant who has like a Palestine flag on

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Speaker 3: their lapal.

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Speaker 1: You know, by the way, I've been on flights four

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Speaker 1: where I've seen the Israeli flag there. Whatever, maybe she's Israeli.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I don't care what flags give me a drink.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like, what are we doing here?

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Speaker 5: Let me get the whole can.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right, give.

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Speaker 1: Me the can. I need to die coke can, all right,

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Speaker 1: and pour it properly over. I'm joking again. I don't

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Speaker 1: ever say any of this stuff.

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Speaker 3: But my point is, just like who cares what the

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Speaker 3: lapel and they blow these people up, they like ruin

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Speaker 3: their lives and inviting this like witch hunt. And those

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Speaker 3: are the people who the government is taking these lists

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Speaker 3: of people from who didn't commit any crime.

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Speaker 1: All they did was to speak out against a foreign government.

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Speaker 7: So I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I just think it's crazy.

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Speaker 4: And I would say to the people who are like, well,

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Speaker 4: they should be good guests and screw them.

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Speaker 3: No, not to be clear, I'm not saying screw them.

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Speaker 3: I'm actually on their side. I don't think they should.

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Speaker 5: I mean there's they're going to be.

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Speaker 3: What I get annoyed by is like this transnational American identity,

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Speaker 3: as if citizenship itself doesn't mean anything. Just simply being

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Speaker 3: present in the country does not mean you are a

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Speaker 3: citizen who's entitled to all of the protections that we

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Speaker 3: have and that the government cannot deport you. For a reason,

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Speaker 3: and that it is just empirically true. If you want

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Speaker 3: to argue America the exceptional country and all that, I

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Speaker 3: think that's fine, But it is empirically true that in

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Speaker 3: almost every country in the world that going there and

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Speaker 3: in participating in a protest, specifically like in a foreign

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Speaker 3: policy against the city government, they're not going to let

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Speaker 3: you stay. Even in Europe and many of these other places,

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Speaker 3: they're not also you know, kind and fuzzy, you know,

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Speaker 3: to to.

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Speaker 5: Foreign studies, particularly if it's an anti Israel protest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, try going to Germany. Okay, liberal democracy Germany or god.

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Speaker 3: I can name any of the country. Uh, Like I said,

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Speaker 3: even non authoritarian ones, ostensible democracies where if you do

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Speaker 3: this type of stuff like you are going to get deported,

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Speaker 3: you can argue.

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Speaker 1: That you shouldn't. And you know, I would say, you

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Speaker 1: certainly can.

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Speaker 4: That's what just shut and shutting off, like you're gonna

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Speaker 4: hurt tourism, and you're going to hurt You're going to

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Speaker 4: hurt the number of foreign students who come to the

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Speaker 4: United States, and I think people are gonna be like, well,

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Speaker 4: screw it, who's there.

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Speaker 1: I think we should have much less foreign Sto.

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Speaker 3: I think it's completely perverted our financial system in these

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Speaker 3: universities because what happens is is they increase the costs

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Speaker 3: for everybody. Now they subsidize marginally the American students who

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Speaker 3: are still loaded up with tens of thousands of dollars

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Speaker 3: in student debt, but you also make it basically a

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Speaker 3: visa farm for the richest people all over the world

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Speaker 3: to be able to come here.

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Speaker 1: Would they fake they're reducing course, No, but they're not.

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Speaker 1: They This is the thing.

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Speaker 3: If that were true, Ryan, then you would not see

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Speaker 3: the inflation and overall educational costs. I mean, the more

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Speaker 3: foreign students, the higher that the price actually goes.

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Speaker 1: And then worse is the government.

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Speaker 3: Comes in and backstops these student loans for you know,

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Speaker 3: fake lower you know, oh we gave you ten thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars in student aid. It's like okay, but the thing

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Speaker 3: is still sixty thousand dollars. So they're going they're getting

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Speaker 3: some fast alone. The government's doing that basically comes a

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Speaker 3: foreign visa farm. The PhD programs and all that. There's

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Speaker 3: no particular evidence that it's all that like great for

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Speaker 3: the United States or that all of this money is

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Speaker 3: flowing into the hands of the average American citizen. Like,

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Speaker 3: I don't see any evidence that, you know, all of

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Speaker 3: this educational spending has done any or increase in education costs,

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Speaker 3: and subsequent dollars come in has been distributed at all to.

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Speaker 1: The overall population.

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Speaker 3: It's mostly just a money laundering organization for the University

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Speaker 3: of Michigan or the university whatever, you know, all these

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Speaker 3: other places which use these dollars to just continue to

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Speaker 3: prop up and justify even more overall expenses.

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Speaker 1: I'm totally against the current way that it's funded.

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Speaker 4: The explosion of the cost of university is I think

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Speaker 4: a separate issue from foreign students coming and spending money

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Speaker 4: in universities. Like there's a correlation there, but I don't think.

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Speaker 5: I don't think foreign students.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm not blaming them per se.

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Speaker 3: I'm saying it's all part of the incentives, as in

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Speaker 3: the incentive for a university when they charge sixty thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars or seventy thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: What is it now, Harvard, I don't even know.

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Speaker 3: In eighty thousand something eighty five thousand, let's say, Sarah

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Speaker 3: Lawrence is always famous because they have been like in.

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Speaker 1: The middle of Rhode Island.

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Speaker 3: They charge in like ninety grand a year. It's like, okay, well,

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Speaker 3: who's paying that well, foreign students. But also even though

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Speaker 3: for the student who's let's say, paying forty five thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars per year, which is instill an insane amount of money,

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Speaker 3: that person is taking on a government back loan, right

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Speaker 3: that literally can't be discharged.

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Speaker 1: And you watch as those.

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Speaker 3: Two things have basically made it so that these universities

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Speaker 3: can offload all the risk of participating in their financial

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Speaker 3: product if you just look at like a balance sheet,

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Speaker 3: they offload the risk of the government and to the

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Speaker 3: individual and they take those profits home. Again, we don't

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Speaker 3: see much evidence that they're distributing that funding. If it

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Speaker 3: were true that all this increased tuition was so great

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Speaker 3: for workers, then professors would be getting paid more. Actually,

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Speaker 3: their salaries going down for the phderies right for the adjuncts,

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Speaker 3: and the way that they run it's actually more restrictive

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Speaker 3: than ever. Really, what they're doing is they're enriching themselves

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Speaker 3: and a bunch of fund managers on Wall Street by

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Speaker 3: you know, these endowments.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, that's that's I.

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Speaker 4: Agree with that point I think that cutting off the

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Speaker 4: foreign students, well, I guess we'll get to find out

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Speaker 4: what it does.

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Speaker 1: Well. So yeah, I mean that is the question. I

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Speaker 1: guess in.

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Speaker 4: Terms of if you're a foreign student now, like for

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Speaker 4: the student willingness, I would assume that you're looking around

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Speaker 4: at other countries. Do you think so, I would be

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Speaker 4: maybe or maybe maybe you just don't criticize Israel, which

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Speaker 4: is also like that, like America has become less America.

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Speaker 1: That's fair. I think that's probably the best point.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think that we're going to really

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Speaker 3: see if anything, I'm not sure if you saw this.

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Speaker 3: Law school applications went double this year, which is usually

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Speaker 3: a bad sign. That means that there's a recession coming,

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Speaker 3: right because people dook at a job, so that means

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Speaker 3: that they're going to law school. Usually a bad financial decision,

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Speaker 3: especially with that take advice to me, but you know,

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Speaker 3: just saying loading yourself up with two undergrand in debt

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Speaker 3: and the hopes that it might pay off in the

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Speaker 3: future usually a bad idea.

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Speaker 5: But you know, a lot of.

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Speaker 1: People seem to think that it's good.

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Speaker 3: We saw the same thing in O nine for law

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Speaker 3: school applications, but The problem, I think is what you

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Speaker 3: just said is that the government is enforcing policy to

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Speaker 3: chill speech on an issue of a foreign government.

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Speaker 1: You know, that is genuinely crazy.

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Speaker 5: It's crazy.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy.

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Speaker 3: I mean every other time in the past we talked

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Speaker 3: to Jefferson Morley, at least our government should be siopping

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Speaker 3: our population to support a war that we are. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's like, is that too much to ask Intel pro

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Speaker 3: for you know, for Vietnam. Don't support it, but I

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Speaker 3: get it right, I'm an Nixon administration.

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Speaker 5: This is too much repress us to own your own

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Speaker 5: process for your.

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Speaker 3: For your own benefit, not for the benefit of some

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Speaker 3: people in Tel Aviv, you know, who aren't even although

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Speaker 3: I guess some of them are US citizens.

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Speaker 4: But we forget though, like yes, they're very is powerful,

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Speaker 4: et cetera. They are a client and they benefit us.

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Speaker 4: They're like, there was a reason that we're not just

401
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Speaker 4: doing it for them, like we're doing it for us.

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Speaker 4: It is like they are a fundamental part of our

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Speaker 4: foreign policy in the Mid East. So in that sense,

404
00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:09,480
Speaker 4: we are suppressing criticism of ourselves. Several days of protests

405
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,760
Speaker 4: have broken out in Gaza. Israel is already working to

406
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Speaker 4: exploit them can roll. This statement put out by Defense

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Speaker 4: Minister Israel Katz is speaking to hebrewly, but he says

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Speaker 4: the IDF will soon operate with full force and additional

409
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,879
Speaker 4: areas of Gaza, and you will be asked to evacuate

410
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,400
Speaker 4: from combat zones for your own safety.

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Speaker 5: The plans are already prepared and approved.

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Speaker 4: Hamas is putting your lives at risk, causing you to

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Speaker 4: lose your homes and more and more territory that will

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Speaker 4: be integrated into Israel's defense formation.

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Speaker 5: The first Sinowar destroyed.

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Speaker 4: Gaza, and the second Sinowar is ready to burn half

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Speaker 4: of Gaza with his own hands, just to try and

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Speaker 4: maintain his corrupt rule. Alongside his fellow Hamas murders and rapists.

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Speaker 4: They sit safely with their families in tunnels and luxury

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Speaker 4: hotels with billions in foreign bank accounts, while using you

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Speaker 4: as hostages. Learn from the residents of bate Lahia, just

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Speaker 4: as they did, demand the removal of Hamas from Gaza

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Speaker 4: and the immediate release of all Israeli hostages.

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Speaker 5: This is the only way to stop the war.

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Speaker 4: This came several days after israel Cats had put out

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Speaker 4: a separate statement residence of Gaza. This is your final warning.

427
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Speaker 4: Evacuation of the population from combat zones will soon resume.

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Speaker 4: If all Israeli hostages are not released and Hamas is

429
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 4: not kicked out of Gaza, Israel will act with force

430
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 4: you have not known before. Take the advice of the

431
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Speaker 4: US President, return the hostages and kick out Hamas, and

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Speaker 4: new options will open up for you, including relocation to

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Speaker 4: other parts of the world. For those who choose the

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00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:47,480
Speaker 4: alternative is destruction and devastation. After these remarks, starting this week,

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Speaker 4: you started to see organic protests not or in other words,

436
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 4: in other words, not organized by Fatah or the Palestinian authority,

437
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 4: which are rivals of Hamas. After the into the second day,

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Speaker 4: the size and the kind of the ferocity of the

439
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 4: protests expanded significantly.

440
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Speaker 5: We'll see.

441
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Speaker 4: We'll see how that develops on said Ay, which would

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Speaker 4: be the third day. What has been remarkable about these

443
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:22,880
Speaker 4: protests is that they have included significant anti Hamas sentiment

444
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 4: being expressed.

445
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:26,919
Speaker 5: And so let's talk about the.

446
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 4: Politics here and the material conditions in which these are

447
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 4: in which these are unfolding. So to be clear, you know,

448
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,960
Speaker 4: Hamas took power in two thousand and five, and in

449
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,199
Speaker 4: this election, and then afterwards there was you.

450
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 5: Know, Fatsa tried to take power and there was.

451
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 4: Amas pulled a kind of counter coup and there haven't

452
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 4: been elections since. They have been in power now for

453
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:58,879
Speaker 4: almost twenty years. And for obviously among Palestinians and Gaza,

454
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 4: there is a rain of opinions. They're by no means monolithic,

455
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:07,359
Speaker 4: but there are many, many people in Gaza who have

456
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,719
Speaker 4: serious objections to Hamas as a governing authority. Right they

457
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 4: they have largely kind of primarily been an armed resistance

458
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 4: organization and a national liberation move That is is their identity,

459
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 4: that's what they see themselves. As governing has never been

460
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 4: the thing that kind of animated them. And at the

461
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 4: same time they've been operating under a twenty year siege.

462
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 4: They've been a repressive government as well, and so it

463
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 4: you know, from talking to people in Gaza yesterday, they

464
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 4: were they were adding like, yes, people are people are

465
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 4: frustrated with Hamas. People are people are people, and people

466
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 4: want an end to this war. They want a lifting

467
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 4: of the siege. People are are literally starving, and they

468
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 4: think that if they go out and express opposition to

469
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 4: to Hamas that that can lead to an end to

470
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 4: this war.

471
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 3: One of the dumbest arguments I always hear is they

472
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,639
Speaker 3: voted for Hamas, so they support it. Okay, Well, the

473
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 3: median age in Gaza is eighteen years old, right, so

474
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 3: that means that the median of Gazen was not alive

475
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 3: whenever there was an election. And by the way, even

476
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,400
Speaker 3: if there was an election like let's say ten years

477
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,679
Speaker 3: ago or whatever. As you know, I know this is

478
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 3: trite almost at this point, but that's the logic. O'samom

479
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 3: bin laden use right to attack the United States on

480
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 3: nine to eleven is they support their Zionist government under

481
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 3: George W. Bush, So they deserve it, right, That's why

482
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,479
Speaker 3: we should attack and kill the average American because they

483
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 3: are complicit in the crimes of their own government. It's like, okay,

484
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 3: well that by that standard, you know, then there is

485
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 3: no such thing as a civilian. Now, that's basically the

486
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 3: argument that that has been put in place. What's also

487
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 3: ironic about those elections is that they were pushed by us. Yes,

488
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 3: we're the people who basically forced the is Really he

489
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 3: didn't even want to have an election because they knew

490
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 3: what was going to happen. The reason that we pushed

491
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 3: it was because of Bush's brain dead freedom agenda. And

492
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 3: it's so funny even in retrospect, they have the election,

493
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 3: the election doesn't go the way they want, They're like, okay,

494
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 3: now we got a sanction in blockade this entire thing

495
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 3: because they elected the wrong people.

496
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 1: So what happened to the whole freedom agenda thing?

497
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 5: Right? Freedom as long as you pick our guys.

498
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 3: Freedom as long as you pick our guys, kind of

499
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 3: like Iraq Afghanistan?

500
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 5: Remember Hillary?

501
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 4: Thing is you remember Hillary Clinton's famous quote after that

502
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 4: election she said's so good you guys can google up

503
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 4: and find it the exact quote. But she was like,

504
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 4: how on earth did the Bush administration hold an election

505
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 4: where they couldn't determine the outcome of It's like, she's like,

506
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 4: what kind of incompetence it is?

507
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 5: That?

508
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 4: Which just says absolutely everything about everything.

509
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 3: That's one of my favorite things in reading history is

510
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 3: at the Potsdam conference when Churchill lost the election, Stalin

511
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 3: was like, I don't understand what is going on here.

512
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 3: He's like, why didn't you just rig it? And he's

513
00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 3: like he was mystified, you didn't rig it. You're just

514
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 3: gonna keep it that you're just leaving. He's like, you

515
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 3: can't leave where?

516
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 5: And he was so annoyed. He's like, now I have to.

517
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 3: He's like, who's this new guy at Lee? He's like,

518
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 3: who the fuck are you?

519
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: You know, I don't want to deal with you.

520
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 4: And so if we put up D eight on the screen,

521
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 4: Israel's dropping flyers over Gaza urging Palestinians to go out

522
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 4: and protest against Tamas. This has kicked off, obviously what

523
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 4: you would expect, which is then a rallying around of Hamas,

524
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 4: like because on the one hand, people are deeply frustrated

525
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 4: with the situation, and they're deeply frustrated with you know,

526
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 4: a lot of elements of the way Hamas is like

527
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 4: operationally handling this situation people are suffering. On the other hand,

528
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:52,479
Speaker 4: they don't want to be seen as aligning themselves with Israel.

529
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 4: So what as a result of this, as the rules

530
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 4: of Israel trying to exploit the protests, You've had a

531
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 4: lot of clans and kind of senior elder officials like

532
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 4: up and down guys that put out statements saying that

533
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 4: the people have a right to protest. People have a

534
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 4: right to protest Tomas but we stand steadfast and firm

535
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 4: with with the national liberation and with the resistance against Israel.

536
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 4: Trying to trying to make make that, make that clear.

537
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 4: At the same time, you're going to have political jockeying

538
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,640
Speaker 4: for what may be a post Hamas environment after Gods.

539
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 5: Israel tried, you know.

540
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 4: Very hard and was and you know, they put their

541
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 4: plans publicly out there that they wanted to empower clans

542
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 4: against against Tamas two.

543
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 5: To distribute aid.

544
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 4: They armed some of these clans, they would bomb Hamas,

545
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 4: they would bomb secure police that were connected with Hamas

546
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 4: to try to empower these basically gangs because then they

547
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 4: it's the classic divide and rule situation, and so some

548
00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 4: of those gangs have obvious political motivations to try to

549
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 4: fuel these and so what is what is relying on

550
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 4: genuine organic sentiment of you know, very quickly is getting

551
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 4: pulled in many different directions.

552
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: That's what I really wanted to get at it.

553
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 3: I was like, what do we really make at these

554
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 3: protests because everyone's like, oh, it's I was like, maybe

555
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 3: it seems a little convenient.

556
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 4: But it's like there is and it should definitely be

557
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 4: acknowledged that there is significant anti Hamas sentiment being expressed

558
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 4: at these at these protests.

559
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 3: What are your dropside colleagues say about the participants and others.

560
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 4: That yeah, that that this is that these are that

561
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 4: there are significant you know, anti Hamas elements to these.

562
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 5: Protests, of course, but it's.

563
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 4: There's also anti siege, anti occupation, like anti like end

564
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 4: this war, like we want to live is one of

565
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 4: the one of the main lines, main battle cries of

566
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 4: these protests is we want to live. And then there

567
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 4: is some frustration that the ceasefire didn't last, and it's

568
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 4: frustration that everybody involved like they just want the but

569
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:11,479
Speaker 4: they also know who is blockading Gaza right now and

570
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 4: they know they can in many cases you can see

571
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 4: the trucks on the other side. Abu Baker ab Had,

572
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 4: one of our correspondents there, is to put on Twitter

573
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 4: the other day that or yesterday that children that he's

574
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 4: seen are drawing food in the sand, that the depth

575
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 4: of the hunger is at just intolerable levels. And so

576
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 4: part of this, I think is just say flipping the

577
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 4: table like something's got to give here, and it's it's

578
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 4: it's being received in a very complicated way in Israel

579
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 4: because on the one hand, the Israeli public likes to

580
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 4: say that, look, even the Palestinians are protesting against some

581
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 4: we told you Hamas is terrible, but that also then

582
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 4: undercuts their argument that everybody is Hamas, and why are

583
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 4: you killing them all? Like they're begging you to not

584
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 4: kill them. They're saying they want to live, and there

585
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 4: is a very clear path that Hamas has outlined that

586
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 4: they will leave the government, make a deal. Let let

587
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 4: let let a new government come in with some amount

588
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 4: of sovereignty and open and open up the passes so

589
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 4: that the trucks can get back in and they'll disarm and

590
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 4: move on like and so. For a lot of the

591
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 4: Israeli right, one of their biggest fears has always been

592
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 4: being told, yes, peace and co existence is possible. We want,

593
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 4: we want peace because Israel does not want. The Israeli

594
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 4: right does not want, which ends the Israeli right is

595
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 4: now almost all of Israel. They don't want peace and

596
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 4: coexistence with Palestinians and Gaza. They want the Palestinians and

597
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 4: Gaza to no longer be there. Right, they're setting up

598
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 4: an entire ministry to move them to Egypt and Jordan.

599
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 4: They want to ethnically cleanse the entire area. So peace

600
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 4: and coexistence is a threat to that vision. So that's

601
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 4: why it's being received in this kind of complicated fashion.

602
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 4: And you're and you're seeing a lot of Israeli commentators say,

603
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 4: we don't care if they're protesting.

604
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 5: Kill them anyway.

605
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 3: All right, let's get over to NPR and to PBS.

606
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 3: Last piece here. But Ryan and I we were like,

607
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 3: we need to debate something more. And foreign students is

608
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 3: too much, that's that's not spicy enough.

609
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: So what about NPR and PBS.

610
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 3: So there have been these congressional hearings for purposes we

611
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 3: still have yet to be explained. But anyway, they are there,

612
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 3: and Republicans and Democrats sparring over whether the hearings are

613
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 3: a joke, for defunding NPR, NPR not doing itself any favors.

614
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 3: Their CEO hasn't particularly come across well with some of

615
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 3: our own past tweets. So we compiled some We compiled

616
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 3: some clips from what went down yesterday to give you

617
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 3: the best and the brightest.

618
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.

619
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 6: The former senior Business editor friend PR.

620
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 8: How long you work at MPR?

621
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 6: I believe he was there just over twenty five years.

622
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 8: Twenty five years award winning journalists?

623
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 5: Do you win any awards?

624
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 8: Are time to anybody? Award that's pretty important in it?

625
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 8: That is a pretty distinguished journalists, right certainly? And I

626
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 8: wrote he wrote a long story about what you do

627
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 8: at MPR is MPR.

628
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 6: Biased, Congressman.

629
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 7: I have never seen any instance of never of pro

630
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 7: political bias determining editorial decisions.

631
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 6: Now, wells mister Berliner in his story.

632
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 8: A couple last year wrote, I've in the DC area

633
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 8: editorial positions at MPR. He said he found eighty seven

634
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 8: registered Democrats, zero Republicans.

635
00:31:58,640 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 6: Is that accurate?

636
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 7: We do not track the numbers or the voter registration,

637
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 7: but I find that.

638
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 8: Award winning journalists who worked twenty five years at NPR,

639
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 8: mister Berlin or was he lying when he wrote that.

640
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 7: I am not presuming such. I just don't have We

641
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 7: don't track that information about our journalist eighty.

642
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 6: Seven to zero, and you're not biased?

643
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 9: Do you believe that America believes in black plunder and

644
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 9: white democracy?

645
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 6: I don't believe that, sir.

646
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 9: You tweeted that it is reference to a book you

647
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 9: were reading at the time. Apparently the case for reparations.

648
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 6: I don't think I've ever read that book, sir.

649
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 5: You tweeted about it.

650
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 9: You said you took a day off to fully read

651
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 9: the case for reparations. You put that on Twitter in

652
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 9: January twenty twenty.

653
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 7: Chirst of all, I do want to say that NPR

654
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 7: acknowledges that we were mistaken and failing to cover the

655
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 7: Hunter Biden laptop story more aggressively and sooner our current

656
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 7: editorial leadership. Woohan, We recognize that we were reporting at

657
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 7: the time, but we acknowledged that the new CIA evidence

658
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 7: is worthy of coverage and have covered it.

659
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 3: So Yeah, didn't go so well for Catherine there. I mean,

660
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 3: she's been a real target for quite some time now.

661
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 3: I don't know in terms of in terms of whether

662
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 3: this is a good idea or not. Before we get

663
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 3: to the debate, though, let's also take a listen to

664
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 3: the Democrats eat three.

665
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: Please, let's take a listen.

666
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 10: Free speech is not about whatever it is that y'all

667
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 10: want somebody to say, and the idea that you want

668
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 10: to shut down everybody that is not Fox News is bullshit.

669
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 10: We need to stop playing because that's what y'all are

670
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 10: doing in here. You don't want to hear the opinions

671
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 10: of anybody else. And the Constitution says Congress shall make

672
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 10: no law respecting or establishing of religion, or prohibiting the

673
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 10: free exercise thereof, or abridging.

674
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 5: The General Woman's time has expired.

675
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: The General Woman's time has expired.

676
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 11: Here's what I think we should be having a hearing about.

677
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 11: After Trump and Musk took over the government, reporters noticed

678
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 11: the State Department was trying to funnel four hundred million

679
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 11: taxpayer dollars to Tesla. The State Department said, it's an

680
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 11: old contract, no news here, But because of a brave

681
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 11: whistleblower and an NPR reporter, they exposed the corruption and

682
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 11: the lies. Madam Chairwoman, if we want to look into

683
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 11: waste for aden abuse, why not look into that Elon Musk,

684
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 11: who's running cabinet meetings, who's running the White House, was

685
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 11: trying to funnel money to himself. So let's stop investigating

686
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 11: cookie monster and start investigating how the Trump administration lied

687
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 11: about this and was trying to funnel money to their

688
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 11: biggest political supporter.

689
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 5: Entry.

690
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 12: Now, I will admit that the extreme liberal agenda that

691
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 12: you're all pushing, I think doesn't stop there. This, of

692
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 12: course is Burton Ernie. Now, these two guys actually live together,

693
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 12: they're friends, they're supportive of each other. Now that might

694
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 12: be triggering to our chairwoman and someone this committee, and

695
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 12: perhaps that's also why we're here today, Ms Kerger, an

696
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 12: important question. Are Burton Ernie part of an extreme homosexual agenda?

697
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 5: No, thank you, miss Kroger, and.

698
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 12: Thank you for being a good sport. Now I'm obviously

699
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,919
Speaker 12: using some humor here, but the fact that we're sitting

700
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 12: here today talking about defunding public television is actually not funny.

701
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 12: At a time where we can't agree on basic facts

702
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,959
Speaker 12: and well, the free press is under attack, we need

703
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,439
Speaker 12: public media like PBS and NPR more than ever.

704
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: So I had no idea Burton Ernie were possibly gay.

705
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 4: Well that's the whole thing that there was. There was

706
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 4: a panic on the right for a while.

707
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 11: It was.

708
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: Is this a long standing thing? Is this more recent development?

709
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: What's up with that?

710
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 4: I only remember from the kind of gay panic two

711
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 4: thousands ere.

712
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,439
Speaker 3: Oh really, but I wasn't These are like the people

713
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 3: wouldn't let their kids like read Harry Potters.

714
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, yeah, but maybe back in the sixties seventies

715
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 4: there was some.

716
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: Okay, So Ryan, let's uh, let's talk about it.

717
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 3: What is your case for NPR and for PBS, and

718
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 3: why don't we split them apart? Because NPR is news organization,

719
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 3: not so NPR News specifically, but also NPR.

720
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,479
Speaker 1: Has a lot of different programming, public interest programming. I've listened.

721
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 3: I listened to tons of NPR when I was growing up.

722
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 3: They have great book shows, et cetera. But I don't

723
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 3: think you can deny that it's effectively taken, you know,

724
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 3: pretty liberal in the last decade or so.

725
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: So why shouldn't public dollars be funding something like that?

726
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 4: So I would preface this by saying that my concern

727
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 4: for this country is like rapidly evaporating, well as we

728
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 4: become more like China and Russia. But you like, we're

729
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 4: giving up right exactly, So then you like it. So

730
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 4: let's just be China. Then at China you're going to

731
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 4: get publicly funded media, yeah, and you're going to get

732
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 4: you know, much better public benefits.

733
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 5: You also have then no freedom of.

734
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 4: Like thought, association or whatever. I mean, that's an exaggeration.

735
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 4: Sure shouldn't say that about my good chairman, she but

736
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 4: you don't have the same level of freedom that you

737
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 4: have here. As we're eroding our freedom here, then it's like,

738
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 4: well then what are we what do we even have

739
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 4: to offer?

740
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 3: But it's kind of like the food stamp thing that

741
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 3: we had talked about yesterday, Like why so if it's

742
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 3: tax payer dollar, don't you have a taxpayer interest in this?

743
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 3: And the and the democratically elected government should have some

744
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 3: say over the way that it's.

745
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: Going to ae.

746
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 4: I agree, and and I'm and I'm and I'm fine

747
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 4: with that. I think that I think there should be

748
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 4: a correction in the kind.

749
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 5: Of political bias of NPR.

750
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 4: And I think they're doing it like I think, I

751
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 4: think they've been chastened by the election.

752
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 5: And how did it get so.

753
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: Out of control?

754
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 5: Right?

755
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 4: You know, because even I think I think the way

756
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 4: it got that was I think the way it got

757
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 4: out of control is the realignment of our of our politics.

758
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 4: In throughout the twentieth century, you had, you know, the

759
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 4: kind of suburban class that is going to dominate well A,

760
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 4: newsrooms were more working classes throughout the twentieth In the

761
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 4: early twentieth century, yeah, as as they became more professional

762
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 4: class in the eighties and nineties, the professional class had

763
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 4: a lot of Reagan supporters in it, and a lot

764
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 4: of Republicans and suburbs were Republican and so and you

765
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 4: also had this more of an American identity where journalism

766
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 4: was less not seen as partisan.

767
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 5: It was seen as it was like because.

768
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 4: You had NPR, NBC, you know, you know, PBS, CBS, ABC,

769
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 4: like that was basically it. And they saw themselves as

770
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 4: kind of above politics. As you move into the realignment

771
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 4: period of the twenty and twenty tens, everybody with a

772
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 4: college education becomes kind of a liberal, whether and whether

773
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:33,280
Speaker 4: they're Regin.

774
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 5: Specific type liberal or not.

775
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 4: Right, yes, and they're you know, they're pro choice and

776
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 4: their secular there and there are a lot of our

777
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 4: kind of pro free trade like that kind of kind

778
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 4: of a liberal. And everybody in journalism starts to have

779
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 4: a college degree. So the combination of those two things

780
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:55,399
Speaker 4: just meant that everybody just worked at NPR even though

781
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,879
Speaker 4: they still had and I know these people like they

782
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 4: still have they still can to themselves journalism journalists first,

783
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 4: but they they were just kind of personally liberals. Then

784
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 4: Trump gets elected and they see him as this this

785
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,919
Speaker 4: kind of assault on their on their on their sensibilities

786
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 4: and on the American Constitution.

787
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 5: Glenn Greenwall and I have talked about this.

788
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 4: We from the two thousands up through twenty sixteen, we

789
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 4: had always been saying journalists need to, you know, stop

790
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 4: pretending that they're objective and allow the public to know

791
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 4: what their opinion.

792
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 1: I totally agree.

793
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 4: And then after twenty sixteen we're like, oh, maybe not

794
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 4: like that, Like that, wow, okay, maybe maybe we were.

795
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 5: A little off on that, Like, well, no, a little

796
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 5: you want a little.

797
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,879
Speaker 3: Like they went so anti Trump. Yeah, it's like no,

798
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 3: but that was good. That was revealing, that actually made it.

799
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 3: It's like, no, your impartiality is actually bullshit. I'll tell

800
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,720
Speaker 3: you where my jump point came for NPR News in particular,

801
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 3: put this one up there on the screen.

802
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: I'll never forget this.

803
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 3: From the day that the hundred came out, Why haven't

804
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 3: you seen any stories from NPR about a New York

805
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 3: Post Hunter Biden quote. We don't want to waste our

806
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 3: time on stories that are not really stories. We don't

807
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 3: want to waste the listeners and readers' time on stories

808
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,760
Speaker 3: that are just pure distractions. Now listen, am I telling

809
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 3: you that NPR or that Hunter Biden's story was the

810
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 3: biggest story in the world. No, do I think it

811
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 3: should have merited coverage in the same way that any

812
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 3: story should have merited coverage in that twenty twenty election. Yes,

813
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 3: And in particular, they didn't just not cover the Hunter

814
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 3: Biden story.

815
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,919
Speaker 1: They also didn't even cover the censorship of.

816
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 3: That story by Twitter and others that were involved at

817
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 3: the time. So to me, that was when it became

818
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 3: an overtly political, taxpayer funded organization, and I said, I

819
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 3: just don't think that can stand you.

820
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 1: You shouldn't be doing that.

821
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 3: I will stand for And this is where I disagree

822
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 3: with the libertarians and others. Actually, public programming, which is

823
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 3: educational is great. I cannot tell you how much MPR

824
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 3: I listened to when I was growing up. Bookstore, you know,

825
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,320
Speaker 3: book they had all these books shows, you know, the

826
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 3: money one. I'm forgetting exactly what the name is. I mean,

827
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 3: in the mid two thousands and all that, a lot

828
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 3: of people you know, turned NPR on. It maybe have

829
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 3: been whatever was even available, and it had just general

830
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 3: public interest programming of like highlighting stories and you know,

831
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 3: just thinking back to kind of the explosion the pre

832
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 3: podcast era, that was very very useful for a lot

833
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,240
Speaker 3: of people, and I wouldn't even really call it political,

834
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,479
Speaker 3: especially in its you know, non news programming. But that's

835
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 3: where you said the educational problem starts to come in,

836
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 3: because now even that cultural programming around books where like

837
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 3: reviewing Ibrahim x Kendy right as part of our show thing.

838
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 3: They're like, okay, well, you know it doesn't take a

839
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 3: genius to see which way all this is start trending?

840
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 5: Now?

841
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: Am I saying you can't review that?

842
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 7: No?

843
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 3: But are you also going to have a critical author

844
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 3: on I don't think so. That becomes the issue and

845
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 3: you start to really see the organization from twenty fourteen

846
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 3: onwards become just like overtly liberal. I think PBS is

847
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 3: the same story where it's sad because it's not just

848
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 3: about Sesame and others. I mean PBS helped a lot

849
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 3: of kids to learn about science and how to read.

850
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 3: If you think about you know you're in my childhood,

851
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 3: probably in our public.

852
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: Schools, what did we watch?

853
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 3: We watched a lot of PBS programming about how to

854
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,280
Speaker 3: read and cartoons. I genuinely think that stuff is really

855
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 3: very impactful, especially in a country where you can't leave

856
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 3: it to these privatized education companies, they certainly don't have

857
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 3: our damn interests at heart. So I guess it's more

858
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 3: about coming back to principles. But a lot of the

859
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 3: libertarians and the conservatives, they don't even believe it's possible,

860
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 3: and so they just want to blow the entire thing up.

861
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: So that's really where I differ with them.

862
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 4: Right, So it sounds like we agree on the sense

863
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 4: that in principle, public media is a good thing, and

864
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 4: then the public coming together and deciding that they're going

865
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 4: to use public resources to fund media and education is

866
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 4: a good thing because the market doesn't do everything. And

867
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 4: when it comes to NPR, for instance, apparently about three

868
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 4: percent of their funding is tax dollars.

869
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 5: That's the National MPR.

870
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 4: That's the one they hate, the one that all these

871
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 4: liberals on.

872
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 5: North Capitol Street.

873
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 4: When it comes to NPR stations around the country, it's

874
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 4: at least ten percent of the funding as tax dollars.

875
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 4: And without that funding, the NPR station that exists wherever

876
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 4: you live, if you're outside of DC or New York

877
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 4: and Los Angeles would.

878
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 5: Probably go under.

879
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 4: And those NPR stations, they're important to National MPR because

880
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 4: it's cool how NPR.

881
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 5: When there's a story in Alaska, they've got something in Alaska.

882
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 4: Story in Montana they've got and not didn't fly somebody

883
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 4: to Montana. They've got somebody that lives right there, knows

884
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 4: the local scene reports every day for the local NPR,

885
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 4: but then when there's a national story, they report for

886
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 4: national MPR. And I think that these rural areas in

887
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 4: particular are significantly worse off without those publicly funded NPR stations,

888
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,479
Speaker 4: and they just just from a commercial capitalist perspective, there's

889
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 4: not going to be the audience there for them to survive.

890
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 4: So the public should step in and provide a thing

891
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 4: that the market can't that we consider to be valuable.

892
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 4: And if we feel like it's going off the rails

893
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 4: politically ideologically, I think it's fine for the public to

894
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 4: step in and be like, look, come on, get it together.

895
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 5: Good, that's what we're doing here.

896
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: Then we totally agree, all right.

897
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 4: Guys, But except the Republicans don't agree. They're try to

898
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 4: cut off. Yeah, we'll see I doubt.

899
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 3: I mean, like you said, though, what is it three

900
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 3: percent of the funding and it's not like they also

901
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 3: solicit to it. That's so if the only thing that's

902
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 3: annoying meou for prs, how much they shake you down

903
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 3: for money.

904
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 4: But every time you listen, if Republicans do cut the funding,

905
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 4: it will not be national NPR that will go under.

906
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 5: It would be the local mprs.

907
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 1: That's true, that's fair. PBS.

908
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 3: The only reason the real thing for PBS is I

909
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 3: love their historical programming for anybody out there.

910
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's on Amazon.

911
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 3: It's only like three ninety nine a month, and you

912
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 3: can get access to the whole PBS category. I love

913
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 3: those American Experience ones about the American presidents. Obviously, the

914
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 3: ken Burns documentaries are just incredible.

915
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: But that's a.

916
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 3: Genuine, genuine public service in my opinion, because that stuff

917
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 3: is used in schools to like, I mean, it's definitely

918
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 3: gonna better than any history teacher that you're ever to

919
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 3: see to. Actually, this like highly produced, all these interviews.

920
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 3: That's Civil War documentary. Actually it's funny. Shane Gillis was

921
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 3: joking about it, but I feel like he's speaking directly

922
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 3: to someone like me. But Shelby Foot, have you ever

923
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 3: read his books? After I watched that, I actually tried

924
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 3: to read Shelby Foot's books they are impossible to.

925
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 5: Read for me.

926
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: They are written in that the way he talks is

927
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: the way that he writes. It's lyrical, so.

928
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 3: He'll be like mister Lincoln, you know, coming up on

929
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 3: a broad hill. Jefferson Davis, known for the scar on

930
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 3: his face. I'm like, dude, I can't read this like

931
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 3: you know.

932
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 4: He didn't write with troops such as these, did he

933
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 4: Stonewall Jackson biography?

934
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: No, I don't think he did.

935
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 3: He wrote he wrote a trilogy which was I forget

936
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 3: exactly what they were called. Uh yeah, the Civil War narrative.

937
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 3: And to be fair, he even would tell you that

938
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 3: he was not trying to write. He was writing it

939
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 3: in like a historical uh and like a he was

940
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 3: writing it specifically in the way that I found annoying.

941
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 1: I just personally cannot stomach that whenever I'm reading. So

942
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 1: there you go.

943
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 3: Book discussion from Soger and Ryan. Ryan, it's been fun, man.

944
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 3: Thank you for stepping in this week. We appreciate you.

945
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 3: Back to regular programming

946
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:21,399
Speaker 1: Next week and we will see you all later.