Speaker 1: Hi Katie, Hi Brian, and hello everyone again from London.
Speaker 1: When I visit the city, which is one of my favorites.
Speaker 1: By the way, I always feel like Lindsay Lohan's character
Speaker 1: or characters in The Parent Trap. Remember when she drives
Speaker 1: around London soaking in all the sites and sounds. It's
Speaker 1: so great. I love that movie, and of course you're
Speaker 1: always compared to Lindsay Lohan. But anyway, now that you
Speaker 1: mentioned that The Parent Trap is actually on theme with
Speaker 1: today's show, and not just because it's in London. It's
Speaker 1: also about a divorced couple and their tug of war
Speaker 1: over their kids. That's right. It does have a wonderfully
Speaker 1: happy ending, but we won't get into that. But messy relationships,
Speaker 1: those are today's guests, bread and butter. Sharon Horgan is
Speaker 1: a British writer, actor, and producer whose body of work
Speaker 1: has covered everything from dating and not being sure about
Speaker 1: getting married, to trying to make a marriage work, to Yes,
Speaker 1: d I v O r c E. Which, by the way,
Speaker 1: is the name of Sharon series for HBO, which stars
Speaker 1: Sarah Jessica Parker and Thomas Hayden Church. I guess you
Speaker 1: have to have three names to be on that show,
Speaker 1: and in the last dozen years, Sharon has written or
Speaker 1: co written no fewer than four UK TV series and
Speaker 1: acted in even more. Her break through show was a
Speaker 1: dark comedy series on the BBC called Pulling And for
Speaker 1: those of you who do not know uh and get
Speaker 1: your minds out of the gutter, pulling is a bit
Speaker 1: of British slang and we had Sharon explain what it
Speaker 1: means and stay tuned for that because it is a
Speaker 1: bit saucy. More recently, Sharon has been co starring and
Speaker 1: writing the Amazon series Catastrophe, which is about to launch
Speaker 1: its fourth season, and Sharon met Rob Delaney, her Catastrophe
Speaker 1: co star and co creator, on Twitter. How very twenty
Speaker 1: one Century of Them? That shows all about a sexy
Speaker 1: fling that resulted in a row pregnancy and a new
Speaker 1: couple trying to make a life together, getting things a
Speaker 1: bit out of border. That's not even to mention yet
Speaker 1: another current TV show of Sharon's motherland. And she does
Speaker 1: really make me feel lazy Katy, I think compared to Sharon,
Speaker 1: we're both kind of lazy brand what are we going
Speaker 1: to do? Anyway? We were super psyched to have That's
Speaker 1: what they say over here in Britain. Isn't it super
Speaker 1: psyched to have come and do our podcast here in London,
Speaker 1: especially after a long day of filming. And we talked
Speaker 1: about all kinds of things for various TV shows, her
Speaker 1: childhood and why she got into acting, her friendship with
Speaker 1: the late Great Carrie Fisher. We also talked about the vote,
Speaker 1: the recent vote in Ireland, the me Too movement, and
Speaker 1: your favorite subject, Brian Gregsit Okay, Sharon Oregon. We're so
Speaker 1: happy to have you here. We're here in London and
Speaker 1: we're interviewing you. So life is good for us, but
Speaker 1: perhaps not as good for you because you've been filming
Speaker 1: all day long. You're probably exhausted and about ready to
Speaker 1: kill us now, I mean I'm going to kill you.
Speaker 1: It's it's a pleasure to be here. I'm just like
Speaker 1: worried that I'm brain dead. I mean, also I'm in
Speaker 1: trouble with my eldest daughter because I'm supposed to be
Speaker 1: at home. But that aside, I'm more worried about just
Speaker 1: you know, my fatigue making your show not interesting. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm worried about your eldest daughter and please extend her
Speaker 1: My apologies to her, So, so you make me feel
Speaker 1: like such a loser. You're doing three TV shows at
Speaker 1: at the same time. You're starting in one, writing and
Speaker 1: producing two others. You were just in Game Night, so
Speaker 1: obviously you're doing some film as well. You're running a
Speaker 1: production company with your female partner, well your partner, not
Speaker 1: your female partner. You're you're not married to your production
Speaker 1: company partner. So are are you now? When people say partner,
Speaker 1: I'm always like, Wayne, but are you loving life? Are
Speaker 1: you really stressed out? What is your state of my vs? Days? Sharon?
Speaker 1: I mean it kind of changes day to day. Really,
Speaker 1: yesterday I hated my life and today, you know, it's
Speaker 1: all right. It's yeah, it's a bit busy at the
Speaker 1: moment because of our production company, and you know, there's
Speaker 1: a few things sort of moving at the one time.
Speaker 1: But that always happens, doesn't that I mean exact right,
Speaker 1: So I still have that slight thing of um because
Speaker 1: I got my break kind of late in life. I'm
Speaker 1: still like, you know, you've got yeah, exactly, and it's
Speaker 1: it's ridiculous. I should just take some time off. Let's
Speaker 1: just be, you know, like a normal person. One. But
Speaker 1: on the other hand, it's kind of an unpredictable business.
Speaker 1: And when your hat your hat, sister, yeah it is.
Speaker 1: I mean that's the problem. That's my that is the problem.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but I mean most of the time, I
Speaker 1: just feel pretty lucky because I enjoy my job. Like
Speaker 1: it's hard work, but you know, it's got lots of
Speaker 1: plus science. The good news is things are going really
Speaker 1: really well. I mean, I'll kidding aside, you're in demand,
Speaker 1: you're doing great work. You're doing I'm sure what you
Speaker 1: dreamt that you could do one day. Oh god, yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, So take a moment and soak that in.
Speaker 1: I will. I mean, people keep telling me to do that.
Speaker 1: Really nice women actually keep telling me to do that
Speaker 1: because they sort of notice it more than anyone else,
Speaker 1: Like just go and like, you know, have a burger
Speaker 1: or you know, Rob and I when we first started
Speaker 1: writing Catastrophe, we planned constantly that at some point when
Speaker 1: we when we finished writing, like whatever, it was the
Speaker 1: first series at that point, just like we should just go,
Speaker 1: we should just go and have lunch, you know. And
Speaker 1: there's never just been a moment. We're all like always
Speaker 1: just like you know, last minute writing. It's always like
Speaker 1: a crazy kick bollock scrumble and then you know, then
Speaker 1: there's no time for lunch. So, speaking of catastrophe, of
Speaker 1: which I'm a big fan, the name comes from orb
Speaker 1: of the Greek as I've learned. So tell us about
Speaker 1: that quote, I'm married, Um God, what is the quote? Again?
Speaker 1: I'm very I have a wife, kids, house. The whole
Speaker 1: catastrophe what it was about, it was it was too
Speaker 1: I mean, we love the idea of, you know, terrible
Speaker 1: things happening to regular people and those people kind of
Speaker 1: finding a way out of it, you know. Um, but
Speaker 1: also we like the idea that just marriage is a catastrophe,
Speaker 1: just as a as an idea, you know. Um. So yeah,
Speaker 1: we just I don't know, Rob came up with it,
Speaker 1: and we just it was one of those things like
Speaker 1: everyone will tell you that the title they give something,
Speaker 1: it's a working title. And I really think it's looking better.
Speaker 1: I mean everything I've ever written is like, that'll do
Speaker 1: for now. And then you're like God, and then you
Speaker 1: know you go with us. Well it does kind of
Speaker 1: say it all. And before we talk about the premise
Speaker 1: of the show, which is so funny and so great,
Speaker 1: let's talk about Rapp Delaney for a second, because you
Speaker 1: all met on Twitter, which to me strikes me as
Speaker 1: so funny. Although I'm starting to get to know people
Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter and sometimes I d M people
Speaker 1: and you know, people tell me things on the social
Speaker 1: media platforms and then I start talking to them and
Speaker 1: developing a relationship. How did it happen with you and Roth?
Speaker 1: It was kind of like that, really, Um. He he'd
Speaker 1: started getting a lot of interest in the UK, UM,
Speaker 1: just because he's he's so funny, like he's always done
Speaker 1: these amazing one liners and he you know, he's kind
Speaker 1: of gross and I mean the stuff he says not
Speaker 1: not him and um, so I started following him and
Speaker 1: and I noticed he was following me. And at that
Speaker 1: point when I joined Twitter, I'd had a show on
Speaker 1: the BBC called Pulling and he had somehow watched UM
Speaker 1: in the US, and so he got in touch with
Speaker 1: me just to say that he enjoyed the show and
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, you're great as well. I like,
Speaker 1: that's like you had a little Twitter flirtation. Not really,
Speaker 1: but you know, he was pay his picture on Twitter
Speaker 1: He's on a beach in green speedos. So yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: an element of that I thought he looked like Buck Rogers.
Speaker 1: So yeah, a few of us were like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: who's this guy? And uh and then I when I
Speaker 1: when I went to the US to work, I'd go
Speaker 1: and see him do stand up and we sort of
Speaker 1: kind of became friendly, and you know, we sort of
Speaker 1: planned to work together on something. And then he Um,
Speaker 1: the BBC originally offered him, you know, a sort of
Speaker 1: script deal, and he was like, I've never written a
Speaker 1: sitcom before. We you write with me, and and the
Speaker 1: rest is history. They say, you never know how these
Speaker 1: things are going to go. I mean and definitely, and
Speaker 1: we always say it. We we literally never expected it
Speaker 1: to go beyond writing something for fun, you know, and
Speaker 1: it would get turned down and then but yeah, it
Speaker 1: sort of it worked out. And yeah, series four, Season four,
Speaker 1: now you're shooting now, right, And and for people who
Speaker 1: don't love this show like Brian and I do, or
Speaker 1: maybe or haven't discovered it yet, tell us quickly the premise, um, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, the premise really is um. Is their partnership,
Speaker 1: is the marriage? I mean, I guess the very genesis
Speaker 1: of it is them meeting Um, you know, he they
Speaker 1: meet they have this wonderful sort of six days in London.
Speaker 1: He gets are pregnant, and they decided to just have
Speaker 1: a go, you know, because of their ages and situations,
Speaker 1: and they like each other. I mean they do like
Speaker 1: there's definitely you know, in the first episode you can
Speaker 1: sort of see that there's something there and so yeah,
Speaker 1: it's excited. The pregnancy is a complete show. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of slightly based on my life
Speaker 1: situation a little in that I got pregnant very quickly
Speaker 1: with you know, a man's baby, and you know, we
Speaker 1: just decided to have a go, and you know, we're
Speaker 1: still together. But yeah, we just we just liked the
Speaker 1: idea of writing about a real marriage and and really
Speaker 1: genuinely making it as words and all as possible. And
Speaker 1: when the kids come along, we didn't want to write
Speaker 1: about what it's like to be a parent. We kind
Speaker 1: of wanted to write about what it's like to continue
Speaker 1: to have a relationship whilst being a parent. You know,
Speaker 1: So it's never been about the kids. It's always been
Speaker 1: about them. I mean, I think we've given the kid
Speaker 1: one line in four years. The genesis, as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: is based on this unexpected pregnancy. Here is the clip
Speaker 1: from the show Let's take a listen. You just don't
Speaker 1: think that stuff like this will happen. What they repeated,
Speaker 1: sexual intercourse between two healthy adults will do the exact
Speaker 1: thing it's supposed to do. Have you ever done a
Speaker 1: science class? You know how to read. I'm sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: not pregnant, and you are and it's because of me.
Speaker 1: But if you're going to have this baby, he says,
Speaker 1: I'm going to, Uh, well, how old are you? Look?
Speaker 1: The good news is is that we're reasonably good people,
Speaker 1: so we could probably do this and not fund the
Speaker 1: kid up too horribly. I'm just saying, a terrible thing
Speaker 1: has happened. Let's make the best of it. So are
Speaker 1: you staying I'm joking, I'm staying in my spare room.
Speaker 1: I'm joking. I'm a teacher. I'm a spare room. So
Speaker 1: so much of this show, if not ripped from the headlines,
Speaker 1: is ripped from the pages of your actual life. And
Speaker 1: we'll get to your other shows and how they're ripped
Speaker 1: from the pages of your life as well. But is
Speaker 1: it true that nothing from this show is really made up?
Speaker 1: That either happened to Robert to you in some form.
Speaker 1: I think we said, um in the first series that
Speaker 1: we made up some ridiculous figure, like you know, percent
Speaker 1: of it and mean there there there was a bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff in the first series that was pulled from
Speaker 1: our lives and you know, bigger ideas and small plot
Speaker 1: lines and you know, tiny little detail. I mean, we
Speaker 1: were kind of stealing. But but as it's gone on,
Speaker 1: it's kind of become less and less because we know
Speaker 1: the characters more and we know you know, what they
Speaker 1: would do as opposed to what you know we would do,
Speaker 1: so and it's, um, yeah, it's been an interesting process
Speaker 1: in that way. I mean, they'll still always be stuff
Speaker 1: that's real in there, because we both you know, we
Speaker 1: arrive into the writer's room having just come from our
Speaker 1: lives and it's very hard to leave that behind when
Speaker 1: you're writing a show that's you know, has similarities. And
Speaker 1: also the cadence I would assume sort of the dialogue
Speaker 1: and the way you talk, I mean, even sort of
Speaker 1: that last line when you were making the joke about
Speaker 1: being a teaching that, I mean, I would imagine we're
Speaker 1: not friends, but that's probably something you would kind of
Speaker 1: riff with, riff on with your friends or with your husband. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we both m yeah, when when we walk
Speaker 1: into the writer's room, we really do just start writing
Speaker 1: down what each other are saying, you know, before we've
Speaker 1: even kind of worked out any bigger sort of plotlines
Speaker 1: and stuff that that kind of I think, Yes, how
Speaker 1: you how you speak and how you say things, um,
Speaker 1: sort of yeah, definitely comes into it a lot. Jeremy Rainboard,
Speaker 1: your husband, who has the best name ever, by the way,
Speaker 1: it sounds like a super action figure. Well, the good
Speaker 1: news is he's home taking care of the girls right now.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's true. So so when he when he
Speaker 1: watches this, does he ever say honey really? Um no,
Speaker 1: I mean only in that, you know, he kind of
Speaker 1: wishes that I dealt with my real life problems the
Speaker 1: way you know, my character sales with them in the show.
Speaker 1: I mean she's like a kind of more emotionally developed
Speaker 1: version of me, you know, like she has those feelings
Speaker 1: and says those things, but then kind of works through
Speaker 1: them and comes out the other side. I mean, I
Speaker 1: just kind of feel them and then just sort of
Speaker 1: store them up like a horrible kind of bubbling councor Alright,
Speaker 1: I think you're not a good talker. No, I mean
Speaker 1: that's unusual because usually the woman all she wants to
Speaker 1: do is talk and the guy won't. And in your case,
Speaker 1: your you kind of keep things bottled up. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's just that's just what I've tell them to do.
Speaker 1: It was an interview, it's actually a therapy session. I
Speaker 1: have a little paper towel your head and a little
Speaker 1: I don't know why it is, that is just it
Speaker 1: is how it is, you know, my upbringing or something.
Speaker 1: I don't know what we'll get to that. When you
Speaker 1: when you embarked on this journey share and were you
Speaker 1: writing I guess because you and Rob wrote this together.
Speaker 1: So were you cognizant of making it appealing for both
Speaker 1: sort of both sides of the pond, if you will.
Speaker 1: Were you writing for an American audience, a British audience,
Speaker 1: just any old audience you could get. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess to a certain extent it was any old audience,
Speaker 1: because you know, the at the time, we you know,
Speaker 1: we had no idea where it was going to go,
Speaker 1: what was going to happen. But once we got beyond
Speaker 1: the pilot, yeah, we definitely, we definitely had one eye
Speaker 1: on on both camps, and you know there's those jokes
Speaker 1: that don't kind of go in if we feel like
Speaker 1: they won't translate. Um. So yeah, and also you know
Speaker 1: how we chose to cast it, and you know, making
Speaker 1: sure he had an American buddy in London and you know,
Speaker 1: getting carry and we we definitely wanted to feel like
Speaker 1: there was recognizable characters to a US and a UK audience.
Speaker 1: And you know, not that you always need that. I
Speaker 1: mean I think if you know stories have got a
Speaker 1: kind of truth in them, you know anyone would kind
Speaker 1: of get it. But definitely now we kind of have
Speaker 1: an eye on both. And you just mentioned Carrie Fisher,
Speaker 1: who played your sort of evil mother in law on
Speaker 1: the show, and it's extraordinary. I mean, you had dinner
Speaker 1: with her here in London the night before she died.
Speaker 1: You wrote a very moving tribute to her in the
Speaker 1: Hollywood Reporter. Um, what made her such a complete original? Why?
Speaker 1: Why why did you? Um, why were you so attracted
Speaker 1: to her? Well? We um, we went to this awards
Speaker 1: do where she was giving an award to Graham Norton actually,
Speaker 1: and we weren't expecting her to be there. We were
Speaker 1: just in the audience and she got up and she
Speaker 1: did this speech and you know, like any Carrie Fisher's speech,
Speaker 1: it was kind of everything was you know, irreverend and
Speaker 1: naughty and brave and very funny. And I think that
Speaker 1: was it. I think we did. We just looked up
Speaker 1: at and went, that's um, that's your mom there, Rob,
Speaker 1: And we just never thought for a second she'd say yes,
Speaker 1: but she did. And why we we chose her is
Speaker 1: because she is that unique person that you're talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, she was a complex individual and um,
Speaker 1: but mainly I think it's very, very difficult to grow
Speaker 1: up in that sort of very Hollywood lifestyle. And I mean,
Speaker 1: apart from that, I think it's difficult obviously being Princess Leiah,
Speaker 1: being such a so hugely famous that it kind of
Speaker 1: almost kind of surpassed everything else. But she still, you know,
Speaker 1: she just had a very sort of rye kind of
Speaker 1: point of view on all that. I mean, she talked
Speaker 1: about it a lot, and she talked about her family
Speaker 1: a lot, and she was very open. She was really
Speaker 1: good talker. Obviously, you could listen to her all night
Speaker 1: and we were just desperate to get to hour from
Speaker 1: the minute she showed up. But it wasn't until the
Speaker 1: third season that. I don't know, it's just weird. We
Speaker 1: just sort of clicked, you know. She just started messaging
Speaker 1: me and I was like, you know, I was absolutely thrilled,
Speaker 1: and we just started hanging out. She came to my
Speaker 1: house in Hackney and I went for dinner and just
Speaker 1: like talked a lot, laughed a lot, and yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just horribly tragic because I mean, that night we had dinner,
Speaker 1: there was you know, I mean, she she'd like health
Speaker 1: troubles and stuff, you know, of course, but it just
Speaker 1: didn't it didn't seem like someone who she seemed like
Speaker 1: someone who had a lot of plans. You know, she
Speaker 1: had a lot more to give. And she also she
Speaker 1: loved acting. You know, that was the thing I really
Speaker 1: sort of learned about her. She really she really wanted
Speaker 1: to do more, and it kind of bothered her that
Speaker 1: she didn't kind of get the opportunities that she would
Speaker 1: have liked to have to have gotten. And but yeah,
Speaker 1: we we genuinely felt and I'm gonna see blast and
Speaker 1: lucky to have her for that short time. I mean,
Speaker 1: on a ridiculous privilege. I was going to say, it
Speaker 1: sounds like you all became actually really really good friends.
Speaker 1: And so it must have been surreal, Sharon, for you
Speaker 1: to spend this time with her, you know, having so
Speaker 1: much fun the night before, and then hearing the news
Speaker 1: that this had happened. It must have been such a shock.
Speaker 1: Do you remember when you heard that and how you
Speaker 1: were able to process it? Yeah? I absolutely remember, because
Speaker 1: I was having a Christmas drinks party in my house
Speaker 1: and my daughter came running down from upstairs because you know,
Speaker 1: obviously she's a teenager and on social media all the time,
Speaker 1: and they came running into the kitchen and told me,
Speaker 1: and yeah, well I just had to leave my own party,
Speaker 1: and I went upstairs and I start That's when I
Speaker 1: started writing that article, because I thought, if I don't
Speaker 1: write down this stuff now, like what if I don't
Speaker 1: remember the conversation, Like what if I remember the last
Speaker 1: thing she said to me when she walked up to
Speaker 1: her bedroom, And so like that's how I kind of
Speaker 1: processed it. I just immediately started writing everything down. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I guess in some ways, I mean not
Speaker 1: to to be pollyannish about it. As tragic as as
Speaker 1: Carrie's death was. I mean, what a gift that you
Speaker 1: got to work with her and get to know her
Speaker 1: and you know, and spend time with her. But it
Speaker 1: is it's so heartbreaking because I watched that documentary about
Speaker 1: her mother and with with Debbie Reynolds, and I think
Speaker 1: you're right. It was such a unique sort of situation
Speaker 1: and they're living right next door to her mom, and
Speaker 1: the you can understand how crazy making that whole scene was.
Speaker 1: And the fact that Carrie Fisher survived and in some
Speaker 1: ways thrived despite these kind of this very uh sort
Speaker 1: of high octane in the light Hollywood existence, I think
Speaker 1: is pretty remarkable. I haven't watched it yet, I think
Speaker 1: as it came out not too long after death, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I just don't think I can because
Speaker 1: she was so and also we were editing the third
Speaker 1: season when it happens, so we were like seeing her
Speaker 1: every every day and she's so alive on screen. And
Speaker 1: then I thought, I can't watch it, but I definitely
Speaker 1: will at some point. It's very much worth watching for
Speaker 1: her and for Debbie. Yeah. Yeah, Well, when we come back,
Speaker 1: we're going to talk to you, Sharon about sort of
Speaker 1: how you got into this crazy business. You're sort of
Speaker 1: Irish heritage or for Irish heritage right your your work
Speaker 1: with Sarah Jessica Parker, which a lot of our listeners
Speaker 1: will be interested in. So we'll be back with more
Speaker 1: from Sharon right after this. Remember we love hearing from
Speaker 1: you listeners. Listeners like Julio Lopez, who wrote this to us,
Speaker 1: take it away, Katie. I enjoyed the show so much.
Speaker 1: I even considered offering my services as the Lighty to
Speaker 1: your barefoot contessa. That's very sweet of you, Julia, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much, and for everyone else. Lighty is Ena
Speaker 1: Garten's assistant who was featured in the interview we taped
Speaker 1: in INA's kitchen. Julia also wrote, I would be remiss
Speaker 1: if I did not mention that Katie singing Oh, I
Speaker 1: love this, Julia is one of the highlights of the show.
Speaker 1: Well for some of us, Well, thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Don't worry. I'm going to keep those hits coming. We
Speaker 1: also heard recently from an Irish listener, gosh, we're so international,
Speaker 1: Brian named Thomas. Why don't you read that one and
Speaker 1: try not to do it with an Irish accent? Oh damn,
Speaker 1: I was about to sure think, Thomas writes, I have
Speaker 1: to say that the Trump era has somewhat changed the
Speaker 1: image of your country to the rest of the world.
Speaker 1: The US on your podcast, however, remind us of the
Speaker 1: great forward thinking minds that still originate from America, and
Speaker 1: listening to your show, I became a lot more optimistic
Speaker 1: about the future ahead. By the way, Thomas also wrote, ps,
Speaker 1: come on a world tour and visit us sometime, kind
Speaker 1: of the Irish version of May West this Tamus. Hey,
Speaker 1: we didn't make it all the way to Ireland this time,
Speaker 1: but hopefully you'll be enjoying these London episodes. Remember if
Speaker 1: you want to drop us a line, you can email
Speaker 1: us at comments at current podcast dot com or call
Speaker 1: and leave a message at two to four, four, six,
Speaker 1: three seven. The messages really mean a lot to us
Speaker 1: and we try to read and listen to all of them,
Speaker 1: so please keep them coming people. And now back to
Speaker 1: our conversation with Sharon Horgan. Sharon, you talked about the
Speaker 1: difference a little bit between British and American humor, and
Speaker 1: there's this great quote in a New Yorker profile of
Speaker 1: you that UK sitcoms tend to be darker than America
Speaker 1: could ones encouraged by a powerful public broadcasting system whose
Speaker 1: aim is to serve the varying taste of taxpayers, not
Speaker 1: the upbeat preferences of advertisers, and by a national psyche
Speaker 1: fixated on the immutability of the class system, not on
Speaker 1: a dream of self improvement. Americans believe that things will
Speaker 1: get better. Brits laugh at how things stay the same.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's right? Um, yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess essentially, I mean, I think the game sort of
Speaker 1: changes and is changing all the time, because I think
Speaker 1: there's a huge difference between what you see on a
Speaker 1: on a network TV channel, you know, in an NBC
Speaker 1: or ABC, and what you know goes out on Amazon
Speaker 1: or HBO. And but yeah, I mean when when I
Speaker 1: was initially working over there making pilots, I found it
Speaker 1: hard to sort of tell the stories I wanted to
Speaker 1: tell because it felt like there always had to be
Speaker 1: a kind of moral at the end, and you know,
Speaker 1: there had to be a kind of rosy ending, and
Speaker 1: we never felt the need to do that here. And
Speaker 1: I think all of the most famous and successful sitcoms
Speaker 1: very happy to have an unlikable hero at the heart
Speaker 1: of it, and that you don't have to be successful,
Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to be good at your job.
Speaker 1: It didn't feel like on u KTV you needed to
Speaker 1: do any of those, um those things people perceived class
Speaker 1: differently and whether the future is always going to be
Speaker 1: better differently. Yeah, I don't know. I mean the class thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't really mention Rosanne now Ken you
Speaker 1: but Kenny, well, it's just sit back in the day.
Speaker 1: That was the sitcom that sort of inspired me to
Speaker 1: want to write sitcom you know, I mean out of
Speaker 1: the U the U S sitcoms because it was a
Speaker 1: working class family and it did kind of allow you to,
Speaker 1: you know, laugh with them, but you know, be ad
Speaker 1: with them, and um, it wasn't aspirational, but you know
Speaker 1: you kind of wanted to spend time with them. And
Speaker 1: I mean that doesn't seem to be something that you
Speaker 1: saw that regularly on on USTv. It felt kind of unusual. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean I don't know, I only read on Twitter
Speaker 1: what happens about that? Yeah, so, I mean on Twitter
Speaker 1: and you pretty much have the story then because it
Speaker 1: all started on Twitter. And when when you read about that,
Speaker 1: did you think, I yi yi or what what was
Speaker 1: your reaction? Um? Well, oh god, I mean I guess
Speaker 1: it was it felt like absolute fair dues that they
Speaker 1: canceled it, because I mean, that's an impossible situation to
Speaker 1: be put in, isn't it. I mean, what a disaster.
Speaker 1: But um, I just find her such a difficult character
Speaker 1: to get my head around. And I actually just found
Speaker 1: myself wondering what the dynamic was, you know, in the
Speaker 1: writer's room and on set and you know, how that
Speaker 1: how that worked, how involved you know was she or
Speaker 1: you know in terms of storylines and but yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I just didn't see what else they could have done.
Speaker 1: They were in a they couldn't win. You know, I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you just because it happened so quickly
Speaker 1: after Rosanne, Samantha be gotten a bit of hot water,
Speaker 1: And I'm curious if you read about that. Yes, when
Speaker 1: she you know, sometimes people are busy and they're not
Speaker 1: as addicted to social media as some of us. But
Speaker 1: you know, Samantha b who we've had on this podcast too,
Speaker 1: I've got well, she's the opposite of unhinged. I think
Speaker 1: she's I mean, I absolutely love her show, and I
Speaker 1: love her and I think she's a really smart, brave woman,
Speaker 1: and I think she's a great mouthpiece for you know,
Speaker 1: American females to of there, I think she's you know, angry,
Speaker 1: and she should be. I don't know, I think we
Speaker 1: have a different relationship with that word here, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean we kind of bondy it about. Like I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about that because I read a
Speaker 1: column that was a bunch of journalists from the New
Speaker 1: York Times, and Barry Wise is a columnist for the Times,
Speaker 1: talked about how she dated somebody here and how this
Speaker 1: word is a lot less incendiary that word in the
Speaker 1: UK that it is in America, because in America it
Speaker 1: is like horrifying. Yeah, but that's also kind of ridiculous
Speaker 1: because it's such an insane double standard. You know, it's
Speaker 1: such an insane double standard that some words are considered
Speaker 1: that bob, but other words are kind of you know,
Speaker 1: glossed over. I mean, particularly just from the American right,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, they're they're insane anger over. That
Speaker 1: just doesn't just doesn't bring true to me in any way.
Speaker 1: It a crazy time, isn't it. I Mean we are
Speaker 1: talking about the C word, talking about all this stuff
Speaker 1: that's going on, and uh, it's hard to keep up
Speaker 1: with it, isn't it. Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting how comedy is sort of dealing
Speaker 1: with it, you know, how how much comedy has sort
Speaker 1: of taken it all. Everything is feels so fraught, Isn't
Speaker 1: it like a landmine? That's it, And it's still shocking
Speaker 1: every time you hear one of these things break. But
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do an awkward transition ask you a little
Speaker 1: bit about your biography. Um, So you were born here
Speaker 1: in Britain. Your dad owned a pub, which is I
Speaker 1: don't know, stereotypical but still kind of cool. But you
Speaker 1: actually moved to a turkey farm in Ireland when you
Speaker 1: were really little. So do you consider yourself British or
Speaker 1: Irish or some combination of the two. Well, no, I
Speaker 1: consider myself um Irish. Um, but I always so kind
Speaker 1: of consider myself a Londoner. I suppose because it's one
Speaker 1: of those cities that it kind of feels part of you.
Speaker 1: I guess like New Yorkers feel. Um. I moved to
Speaker 1: Ireland when I was really little on my mom's Irish.
Speaker 1: She met my dad in London. That's why you know
Speaker 1: I was kind of born here. Um. You know, my
Speaker 1: brothers and sisters are Irish because they were all born
Speaker 1: there except from my older sister, and I don't know,
Speaker 1: I guess it. It's it's one of those countries that
Speaker 1: kind of you know, it's just in your blood. There's
Speaker 1: nothing you can do about it. I mean, I've got
Speaker 1: a kind of ridiculous accent now that isn't really I
Speaker 1: have to show you not very Irish at all. I
Speaker 1: was going to say, what is it. It's just a mess,
Speaker 1: that's what it is. It's like twenty five years of
Speaker 1: living in London and then occasionally helping back to Ireland
Speaker 1: and you know, inhaling some of the accent just to
Speaker 1: you know, at least get the vowels right. Do you
Speaker 1: find you slip into, you know, talking with much more
Speaker 1: of an Irish accent when you go home or yeah,
Speaker 1: I do. But then it's almost more ridiculous in a
Speaker 1: way because it's like I'm trying to be one of
Speaker 1: the gang, so so talk to me and you're I'm
Speaker 1: not going to see that because it'll sound like a
Speaker 1: called Irish accent and then I won't get any work. Well,
Speaker 1: you you did? You always want to be an actress
Speaker 1: from the time you were young or when did you
Speaker 1: get bitten by the bug. Oh, I mean kind of
Speaker 1: mid teens. I think I wanted to go to our college.
Speaker 1: I mean way before I I you know, decided that
Speaker 1: I wanted to be an actor. I don't know, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure where that came from. Just you know, I
Speaker 1: come from a large Irish family, so you know, the
Speaker 1: attention seeking must be part of it. But many kids
Speaker 1: in your family, there's five of us. That's kind of smart.
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to fight your way to fight
Speaker 1: your way to the top of that one. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know where the acting thing came from because
Speaker 1: you know, like you said, turkey farm, it's not the
Speaker 1: sort of I mean, who do I think I was
Speaker 1: kind of thing. How good were you at plucking the turkeys?
Speaker 1: That's it's pretty okay. Yeah, I would not want to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a revolting it's horrible job. Yes, yes, it's vile.
Speaker 1: I made a little short film about it a few
Speaker 1: years but it's called The Week Before Christmas because growing
Speaker 1: up on a turkey farm, you know, it was all
Speaker 1: about it was all about Christmas, and it was a
Speaker 1: crazy time of year and we as kids kind of
Speaker 1: you know, I just had to had to deal with it,
Speaker 1: had to deal with the craziness of it. But there
Speaker 1: was like, within within all those years there was some
Speaker 1: kind of interesting stories that kind of kind of condensed
Speaker 1: into one kind of fifteen minutes short film. It's kind
Speaker 1: of a love load. We're gonna have to check that out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll send it to you. So it didn't really work
Speaker 1: out initially for you in terms of acting, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: you couldn't get arrested, basically, that's true. True mind you
Speaker 1: sad chapter in your bath. It all worked out, but
Speaker 1: you were working, I guess and at an employment center
Speaker 1: in London while you were pursuing an acting career, not
Speaker 1: particularly successfully at the time. And then you kind of
Speaker 1: had a holy ship moment literally right and you said,
Speaker 1: I'm out of here. What happened? What was my holy
Speaker 1: ship moments? Well? I was working in a job center,
Speaker 1: an employment service center for six years. Um, you know
Speaker 1: that wasn't good. I was, you know, I was kind
Speaker 1: of doing the odd play above pubs, you know, a
Speaker 1: bit of fringe theater, but really you know, not not
Speaker 1: getting anywhere. And I think not trying really because if
Speaker 1: I tried, I might get it and then fail you know. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm guessing that that's what it was because
Speaker 1: I can't think of a better reason. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: was asked by my office manager one day if i'd
Speaker 1: clean up at the front of the building, and I went.
Speaker 1: I was like, First of all, I was like, why
Speaker 1: are you asking me to clean up? But anyway, I
Speaker 1: went out the front of the building and there was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was a human turd on the pavement. And I
Speaker 1: just sort of how did you know it was human?
Speaker 1: By the way, it's it's pretty obvious case been a
Speaker 1: big dog. I guess it could have been. I guess
Speaker 1: it could have been. I don't know. I live in
Speaker 1: New York Share and I see this have been frequently
Speaker 1: with big dogs, And I was like, holy moly, wow,
Speaker 1: do you know what people? Where is your bag? No?
Speaker 1: I do, actually, and I see people that seen up
Speaker 1: after their dog. I say, squeeze me. You actually say
Speaker 1: squeeze me. Yeah, but I do call them out. But anyway,
Speaker 1: so you said, yeah, I just I just went back
Speaker 1: in and then I handed in my notice and I
Speaker 1: left and and I went to university. And when I
Speaker 1: went and applied to do a degree in English, and
Speaker 1: part of my degree was creative writing, and that's kind
Speaker 1: of what got me writing creatively creatively. Just a fast forward,
Speaker 1: you met Dennis Kelly uh in a pub of all places,
Speaker 1: you meet people in the strange place this year, and
Speaker 1: you all teamed up and you created the aforementioned show Pulling.
Speaker 1: I'm afraid to ask where that name came from. By
Speaker 1: the way, Well you know what it means, right, I don't. Oh, well,
Speaker 1: pulling over here is just like going out to get yourself,
Speaker 1: you know, a guy or a girl. It's it's like
Speaker 1: going out specifically to use it in a sentence for me, Um,
Speaker 1: did you pull anyone the other night? Yes? I did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got really lucky. I pulled a really really good
Speaker 1: looking lad. I mean, that's that's all it is. It's
Speaker 1: it's hooked up or nailed. It means hooked up. I
Speaker 1: mean it could be you could pull someone and it's
Speaker 1: just like a bit of making out. Or you could
Speaker 1: pull someone and you know, you go home with them.
Speaker 1: I mean there's a whole, there's a rain, there's a
Speaker 1: range of pulling. Thank you. I feel so much smarter
Speaker 1: now for knowing that. Yeah, so that's where it came from,
Speaker 1: and that became a cult hit and that was sort
Speaker 1: of about your life in your twenties. Yeah, well Milan
Speaker 1: Dennis Kelly's life completely because we both you know, we're
Speaker 1: both on sort of wrong paths, um, and yet we
Speaker 1: both found ourselves living you know, in the capital city,
Speaker 1: living in London with no money, you know, with not
Speaker 1: many prospects, in bad relationships, doing jobs we didn't like.
Speaker 1: But you know, living in London and sort of seeing
Speaker 1: that there was something much better over there, you know
Speaker 1: that someone else was having and so yeah, it was
Speaker 1: kind of it's kind of about that time. It's about
Speaker 1: that sort of difficult time where you're you realize you're
Speaker 1: definitely not a kid anymore, but you definitely don't have
Speaker 1: the skills to to be a proper grown up. So
Speaker 1: when that show came out, you were also either pregnant
Speaker 1: or you just had a baby. Yeah, your daughter, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's one of them. It's waiting for you, but you
Speaker 1: remember her. Okay. Anyway, you said it was the making
Speaker 1: of me. It gave me a different work ethic. So
Speaker 1: how did having a baby make you and change you? Um?
Speaker 1: Just focus, I guess just um, I really liked being
Speaker 1: a mom like way more than I thought. I like it.
Speaker 1: I really like babies, and I wanted to hang out
Speaker 1: with her, and so if I was going to work,
Speaker 1: I just had to make sure that the time I
Speaker 1: was away from her was used really productively and wisely.
Speaker 1: So it just made me, you know, someone would come
Speaker 1: in to look after her. Obviously, I just didn't like
Speaker 1: leave Renny corner. You didn't leave the door open. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I would just sit down in my desk and work
Speaker 1: solidly for those hours when I when I had a childminder,
Speaker 1: and that was the kind of that's what kind of
Speaker 1: termed from babysitter here, child mind, childminder. Yeah, but you
Speaker 1: can say babysitter. Babysitter kind of implies something you do
Speaker 1: in the evening. You know, a teenage girl baby there
Speaker 1: was more fun. Maybe there's more fun. So I'm a
Speaker 1: relatively new parent, and uh, there's something I struggle with people.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people just talk about this
Speaker 1: in the context of women, but it affects men to
Speaker 1: sort of work life balance. When your work, you feel
Speaker 1: guilty for being with your kid. When you're with your kid,
Speaker 1: you feel guilty for not working. How have you dealt
Speaker 1: with all of that? Because you've seemed to manage both
Speaker 1: pretty well. Oh do you know that? What do you
Speaker 1: know that? Well? Manage both very well? Her kids seemed
Speaker 1: to like her some of the time, and her professional
Speaker 1: life is going really well. So I don't know, I
Speaker 1: was making a bit of an assumption. Yeah you did,
Speaker 1: but that's okay. Is that a correct assumption or an
Speaker 1: incorrect assumption? I don't know. I think I've gotten better
Speaker 1: at it over the years. I think back in the day,
Speaker 1: it used to stress me out horribly. Guilt was massive,
Speaker 1: But then I still realized, you know, they've turned out
Speaker 1: pretty well. They're both really nice girls. You know, we
Speaker 1: all like each other. I mean, I've it's nothing terrible
Speaker 1: has happened, you know, And I'm definitely I definitely give
Speaker 1: myself less of a hard time than I used to,
Speaker 1: because I mean, I guess I figured out what was
Speaker 1: the point of it, And I think, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I think you have to stop giving yourself a hard
Speaker 1: time before you can stop sort of giving other women
Speaker 1: a hard time as well. I mean, I think it's
Speaker 1: really um easy to I don't know, just to go
Speaker 1: out and say that you're supportive of of women in
Speaker 1: this industry and you know what should be happening, and
Speaker 1: you know, but it's actually it's really important when a
Speaker 1: woman turns around and says to you, um, you know, God,
Speaker 1: I had to go away for you know, a week
Speaker 1: or a month or whatever it was. And instead of going,
Speaker 1: God the kids miss you, just go, you know, no
Speaker 1: good for you? How are you? You know you're actually
Speaker 1: need to drink, you know, And I'm just I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it's really important to give give each other
Speaker 1: a break and also give yourself a break. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: just didn't feel that guilty. And I was a single
Speaker 1: mom for most of my children's lives, and I feel
Speaker 1: like working and being out in the world made them
Speaker 1: proud of me and also made them more independent. I
Speaker 1: think sometimes, you know, you spend too much time worrying
Speaker 1: and hovering. And I was so excited when I went
Speaker 1: back to work after Ellie was born. It was like,
Speaker 1: I gotta go because I had this nasty green villo
Speaker 1: or bathrobe and I was trying to use this freaking
Speaker 1: breast pump and it was such a nightmare. I could
Speaker 1: not wait to get out of there. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: the thing is, I was not really bad, am I
Speaker 1: I'm not judging people are gonna think they shouldn't. The
Speaker 1: thing is is when I get in in the evening,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's different when I'm filming because you finished
Speaker 1: really late, especially when you come and do podcasts after
Speaker 1: you've finished filming. We apologize to you, but what no
Speaker 1: probally writing I you know, I finish a decent time.
Speaker 1: I get home for supper. We have supper together, like
Speaker 1: you know, read stories, and I think having dinner again
Speaker 1: and and and I mean obviously not always, but as
Speaker 1: much as we can. But like I think, when I'm
Speaker 1: when I'm having that time my kids, I think, what
Speaker 1: would I do if I got home like two hours earlier.
Speaker 1: I mean I would just I would be a less
Speaker 1: good mother because I would be less you know, on
Speaker 1: it or fun or you know, less focused on them.
Speaker 1: I honestly wouldn't know how to use the extra time.
Speaker 1: And that's the truth. I think. The bottom line is
Speaker 1: people have to do what's right for them. You know,
Speaker 1: I respect women who want to stay home and men
Speaker 1: who want to stay home, which we're seeing an increasing
Speaker 1: number of men. Also, there's a lot of women who can't.
Speaker 1: They don't have that choice. It's not like I can afford,
Speaker 1: you know you, They have to go out to work.
Speaker 1: So for them, those women especially, it's not about choice.
Speaker 1: So absolutely we have to support them completely. I agree,
Speaker 1: so and if and if you. I was trying to
Speaker 1: come up with a cute segue to divorce, but that
Speaker 1: just isn't working. Um um um. You teamed up with
Speaker 1: Sarah Jesca Parker for on HBO for her show Divorce.
Speaker 1: I know she hadn't done a TV show since Sex
Speaker 1: in the City. Were you a big fan by the
Speaker 1: way of Sex in the City. Yes, absolutely, I've watched
Speaker 1: every episode like five times, except for the funky spunk one,
Speaker 1: which I inadvertently watched with my eight year old and
Speaker 1: twelve year old at the time. My daughter's basically learned
Speaker 1: about the birds and the bees from Sex in the City.
Speaker 1: How did you how did you pull Sarah? Just? Well, well,
Speaker 1: we were set up by HBO. I'd written some scripts
Speaker 1: for HBO that hadn't got picked up, and I was
Speaker 1: developing something else with them, and at that time she
Speaker 1: had just begune through her company pretty much as you know,
Speaker 1: developing something, trying to find something, and HBO just suggested
Speaker 1: that we might like to meet, and I think she
Speaker 1: she'd read a couple of my scription and seen something
Speaker 1: I've done, and so they flew me over to New
Speaker 1: York to met arn. We had lunch and talked about
Speaker 1: you know what TV she liked and you know what
Speaker 1: stories we wanted to tell, and then it kind of
Speaker 1: came from there. The show is about the unraveling of
Speaker 1: a relationship, a show that quotes days Mired in the
Speaker 1: angry muck. According to The New Yorker, it's also about
Speaker 1: the divorce industry, and I think the collateral damage right
Speaker 1: that happens when a couple gets divorced. Clearly it's not
Speaker 1: based on your life experiences so far, and we hope
Speaker 1: it never is. But why did you want to go there?
Speaker 1: What interested you in the dissolution of a marriage? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean Sarah Jessica was wanting to make a show
Speaker 1: about a long term relationship that was, you know, in crisis.
Speaker 1: I mean that's what she was looking for it anyway,
Speaker 1: and a friend of mine had recently gotten divorced, and
Speaker 1: you know, I guess how she talked about it. Um,
Speaker 1: those sort of stories stayed with me, and I just,
Speaker 1: you know, watch the more the roses and UM a
Speaker 1: few other things that it's sort of, you know, inspired
Speaker 1: that as a sort of a good route for UM
Speaker 1: telling the story of that relationship, because you know, they're
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the end of a very long
Speaker 1: term relationship, and you know, the kind of that sort
Speaker 1: of idea of who are they now? I mean when
Speaker 1: you leave that behind, that that marriage has been part
Speaker 1: of your life and your psyche for so long that
Speaker 1: you know kind of what happens when when you when
Speaker 1: you separate that. And like you said, I thought it
Speaker 1: would be interesting to show the industry around that and
Speaker 1: how that sort of you know, how people you know
Speaker 1: they're they're not just battling an X, they're battling all
Speaker 1: the people that surround them who are basically feeding off
Speaker 1: there the carcass of of their marriage. And not just
Speaker 1: the industry, but the friends that you know that are
Speaker 1: there as well, friends who have either been through divorce
Speaker 1: or you know, are in a bad relationship and want one.
Speaker 1: You know, the kind of the influences that those two
Speaker 1: people you know have. And I started reading about divorce stories,
Speaker 1: reading about the really long term ones that just go
Speaker 1: on and on and on and start out not horribly
Speaker 1: but end up so acrimonious because they're, you know, fighting
Speaker 1: about stuff that they just shouldn't be fighting about just
Speaker 1: to punish each other. And I don't know, it just
Speaker 1: felt like, um, it felt like a sort of story
Speaker 1: area that had a lot of possibilities and it resonates
Speaker 1: with at least we have a clip of a scene
Speaker 1: from Divorce. Let's take a listen to that. I don't
Speaker 1: love you anymore. I want to divorce. Oh God, Robert
Speaker 1: beating so much cheese? Listen, Robert, are you hearing what
Speaker 1: I'm saying? Are you hearing me? Chee? I heard? Can
Speaker 1: I get your full name? At constant? Can you just
Speaker 1: I'm sorry? Can you just wait one second? Please? Can
Speaker 1: you just hang on? Robert listen to me? Listen. We
Speaker 1: don't have to make this horrible, alright, I don't want
Speaker 1: it to be horrible. I'm sorry. He had a lot
Speaker 1: of fun to Those are two pretty special actors with
Speaker 1: Sarah Jessica Parker and Thomas Hayden Church and they each
Speaker 1: have three names? What up with that? I know? Has
Speaker 1: it been fun to work with them? I mean it
Speaker 1: was an amazing experience. I mean they're amazing to watch
Speaker 1: them and sometimes I would say the monitor and kind
Speaker 1: of forget that I was at work and think I was,
Speaker 1: you know, watching TV because it was very surreal. You know,
Speaker 1: it was very surreal for me and kind of overpowering. Um,
Speaker 1: but um, yeah, it was. I went. I went to
Speaker 1: New York and I stayed there for five months. That
Speaker 1: is not a good or easy thing to do when
Speaker 1: you have a family, even if you're sort of flying
Speaker 1: back and forth. And it was tricky, but I loved it.
Speaker 1: I love the show that came out of it. Um.
Speaker 1: I was very uninvolved in the second season. Um, I
Speaker 1: just got to sort of read scripts, you know, at
Speaker 1: the very beginning, and so it's kind of sort of
Speaker 1: gone off and taken a life of its own, and um,
Speaker 1: it's still like it's still a kind of surreal, kind
Speaker 1: of pinch myself kind of moment. I got to got
Speaker 1: to do that. And when you hear Thomas Hayden Church Vomity,
Speaker 1: just now it just must just because that was the
Speaker 1: pilot and it was I mean, it was an amazing experience,
Speaker 1: but it's pilots are hardcore stress just getting all that
Speaker 1: story told in such a sure period of time. So
Speaker 1: everything that was going through my head was just what
Speaker 1: was happening in the in the next room about time
Speaker 1: and he was waiting to go on and how behind
Speaker 1: we were or you know that kind of stuff. You
Speaker 1: are now working on another show called Motherland, right, and
Speaker 1: and can you tell us briefly about that? Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: Motherland is UM it's it's about well, it's about mothers essentially,
Speaker 1: but there there's a there's a father in there as well,
Speaker 1: but it's a it's kind of about that idea that
Speaker 1: it's like being with a bunch of people and the
Speaker 1: only reason why you're with them is because you know
Speaker 1: you have something in common and that thing that you
Speaker 1: have in common is that you all happen to give
Speaker 1: birth UM around at the same time. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's about kids, obviously, but like Catastrophe, it's much more
Speaker 1: about how those parents are just coping and it's about
Speaker 1: I guess kind of friendships that you build. It's it's
Speaker 1: about the kind of world that you create to help
Speaker 1: you cope and help you get through the day. So, UM,
Speaker 1: how's it going. Yeah, I mean, we we are first season.
Speaker 1: UM came out over here UM at the end of
Speaker 1: last year. So and it's just UM started on Sundance
Speaker 1: in the US, and yeah, yeah, I was interested to
Speaker 1: know what a US audience would make of it, because
Speaker 1: really they are you know, they they're They're not They're
Speaker 1: not sunny characters. You know, they've got they are super flawed, tricky,
Speaker 1: difficult at times. Um, people sound like my kind of women. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I hope so, I mean, I hope so that It's
Speaker 1: just that there is not like with Catastrope, there's kind
Speaker 1: of a sweet kind of underbelly to it, um, But
Speaker 1: with Motherland, there is no such underbelly. We know you
Speaker 1: have to leave, But I just wanted to ask you
Speaker 1: a couple of quick questions about current affairs. I was
Speaker 1: curious that someone raised in Ireland what your reaction was
Speaker 1: to the vote that overturned and the biana An abortion.
Speaker 1: There were you surprised? I was surprised at the landslide
Speaker 1: nature of it. I think that was the thing that
Speaker 1: blew everyone's mind. I mean, we all thought it was
Speaker 1: going to be such a close call. And it's thanks
Speaker 1: to the sort of ground movement of the women of
Speaker 1: that country because really, um, the Yes campaign, they just
Speaker 1: went out and they knocked on doors and they it
Speaker 1: was such a. It was such a positive, lovely campaign
Speaker 1: that they ran. They put the groundwork in and and
Speaker 1: I guess people listened, and I think everyone's feeling was
Speaker 1: so just so proud of the country and just so
Speaker 1: proud of the country that it has become. And and
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, women were finally listened to
Speaker 1: and those stories were heard, and like some of these
Speaker 1: women have just been fighting for that for for years.
Speaker 1: And I mean it was a difficult time because there
Speaker 1: was a lot of really desperate, sad, sad stories coming
Speaker 1: out of it. So it was emotional, you know, it
Speaker 1: was very emotional campaign. But um, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: the absolute right decision was made and I think it's
Speaker 1: just gonna impact on the country in such a positive,
Speaker 1: beautiful way. Speaking of movements, I'm curious if Me Too
Speaker 1: has kind of reverberated here in the UK. It's something
Speaker 1: that has really captured the imagination of so many people
Speaker 1: in the States. And are you all experiencing a similar
Speaker 1: movement or is it not caught fire here as it
Speaker 1: has in the United States. I mean, it has absolutely
Speaker 1: had an impact here and in that people are talking
Speaker 1: about the issue of inequality, um and and sexism within
Speaker 1: the industry, but I mean a lot of it is
Speaker 1: kind of focusing on For example, there's of fifty fifty
Speaker 1: campaign about actresses having you know, equal screen time. There's
Speaker 1: an absolutely terrible statistic that I unfortunately can't give you
Speaker 1: of how much time females spent on screen compared to
Speaker 1: the genus. Gina Davis Institute did a whole big study
Speaker 1: on this. I mean it's not only speaking, but appearing
Speaker 1: and and of course from behind uses, from kids shows
Speaker 1: kind of right the way through. They're just horribly underrepresented.
Speaker 1: So that that's quite a big movement here. And obviously
Speaker 1: you know, pay equality because um, you know, recently people
Speaker 1: had to be very transparent about what people were meaning it, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought it was so interesting to learn
Speaker 1: that the government insisted that across industries, whether it's supermarket
Speaker 1: chains or the BBC, you had to make public your salaries. Yeah,
Speaker 1: were a lot of people and it was shocking. Yes,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of very um, angry women out there,
Speaker 1: and it's and it's great, and I mean the fact
Speaker 1: that that it is so visible here it feels like
Speaker 1: it's having a huge impact on you know, the industry,
Speaker 1: TV industry and film, but also commercials exactly the same.
Speaker 1: There's lots and lots of positive movement forward to sort
Speaker 1: of change the situation. In your view, it's really exciting.
Speaker 1: It's really exciting, and it's not bullshit either. It's not
Speaker 1: just about I mean not that pinning on a badge
Speaker 1: is bullshit. It's not because it's really important to be
Speaker 1: visible and it's important for your role models to get
Speaker 1: out there and say that you know, they're backing this
Speaker 1: and they're behind it. But it's it's not just talk.
Speaker 1: It really feels like there's something changing. And you know,
Speaker 1: as a woman working in this industry and as someone
Speaker 1: who runs a company with another woman, you really are
Speaker 1: able to get in and sort of grassroots kind of
Speaker 1: change it. But you have to be prepared to put
Speaker 1: the work in, you know, you you really have to
Speaker 1: be bared to put your money where your mouth is
Speaker 1: and and and then let up BEI there exactly. You can't.
Speaker 1: It's not it's not like we've done our bit, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: it's it really is a constant kind of battle. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, I hope it continues. I hope we continue
Speaker 1: being a pain in people's arses for a long time.
Speaker 1: Because that's the only way it's gonna you know, effectively
Speaker 1: make a big difference. So finally, finally, um, I want
Speaker 1: to ask you about Brexit because it was a subject
Speaker 1: of a very funny joke in one of your episodes.
Speaker 1: It's a bit more of it in the new season. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've got to we've gotten a little bit more political
Speaker 1: this season. I mean, you know here and there, because
Speaker 1: it's not that's not the shows about, but it impacts
Speaker 1: everyone's great to well. I don't want to give anything away,
Speaker 1: but it is a very very funny joke. But um,
Speaker 1: I feel like Brexit and Trump are part of the
Speaker 1: same phenomenon of rising populism and being against the establishment,
Speaker 1: against the experts. Would you agree with that? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it's fear, isn't it. It's like fear of of changed,
Speaker 1: fear of the other though as well, you know, like
Speaker 1: who's massive massive role. I mean, there was a it
Speaker 1: was a huge I mean there was a huge fear
Speaker 1: mongering campaign that you know, if you didn't vote for
Speaker 1: this then basically we're going to be inundated with immigrants
Speaker 1: and they were going to come and take a job
Speaker 1: and sort of burn your villages to the ground. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think the same vote was held now,
Speaker 1: I think it would have a completely different impact anyway,
Speaker 1: because it's such a mess. It's such a mess. Well,
Speaker 1: on that note, that is a terrible nough but I
Speaker 1: mean that's what you know, that's our world. It's such
Speaker 1: a story of our times. Well, we're going to let
Speaker 1: you get home to your daughter's and your husband because
Speaker 1: I don't want there to be held to pay. And
Speaker 1: why is she mad at you? Just out of curiosity
Speaker 1: because she's got she's got a chemistry test tomorrow and
Speaker 1: she hates chemistry. Um, I think if I was there,
Speaker 1: it mum be easier for telling for her to tell
Speaker 1: me to my face so much she hates chemistry. Well
Speaker 1: that's something to look forward to. Anyway. It's such a
Speaker 1: it's such a treat to meet you and to talk
Speaker 1: to you. Thank you so much for doing this because
Speaker 1: I know it was a long day, and uh, we
Speaker 1: really really appreciate it, and we're both big admirers of
Speaker 1: yours and wish you continued success and everything you do.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you, Brian. I thought Sharon was really nice
Speaker 1: and really fun to listen to, and I just love
Speaker 1: her accent. What can I say? She had me at
Speaker 1: Hello or cheerio. But I really actually related to her
Speaker 1: feeling guilty about her daughter because it took me back
Speaker 1: to the days of sitting on the sofa and helping
Speaker 1: carry study for a test and getting all anxious, and
Speaker 1: at fourteen, I'm sure her daughter is a little stressed out.
Speaker 1: And I hate chemistry too. Well, my daughter loves chemistry.
Speaker 1: You know, she's nineteen months. She's totally she's brilliant. She's
Speaker 1: already memorized the periodic table. Of course, you mean yours haven't.
Speaker 1: But you enjoy Sharon, didn't you. I had a great time.
Speaker 1: And one thing that inspired me was that, you know,
Speaker 1: she didn't have her first big hit until she was
Speaker 1: thirty six years old. And it reminded me of the
Speaker 1: old quote that it took her ten years to become
Speaker 1: an overnight sensation. And she's worked really hard and done
Speaker 1: a million things and in the end it all worked
Speaker 1: out for her. And so I think that's a good message,
Speaker 1: a hopeful one for everyone listening. I think she's also
Speaker 1: just very insightful about the human condition, you know, and
Speaker 1: and really fascinated by what makes people tick and how
Speaker 1: they react and behave in all kinds of situations, and
Speaker 1: I think because of that, her work is really relatable.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I have a very similar sense
Speaker 1: of humor. I'm just not that funny. You're really bleak,
Speaker 1: dark person. That's how every perceives it is the real
Speaker 1: Katie and the sunshine is actually super dark. So we
Speaker 1: want to thank the BBC again for bringing us across
Speaker 1: the Pond, and Talie It's Silk Sound for recording tonight's episode. Yes,
Speaker 1: is very late at this point. Our usual tip of
Speaker 1: the hat to our stitcher squad, Gianna Palmer, Nora Richie,
Speaker 1: and Jared O'Connell. And thank you to Katie's enormous team
Speaker 1: over at Katie Current Media. It's enormous. They pumish yours,
Speaker 1: you know, they brush your hair, they pumise your feet
Speaker 1: and it's incredible. They also developed some media that demiz
Speaker 1: emibina at Alison Bresnick. You three are fantastic. Katie and
Speaker 1: I are the executive producers of the show. Mark Phillips
Speaker 1: wrote our theme music and hey, if you haven't already,
Speaker 1: please leave us a rating on Apple Podcasts and subscribe
Speaker 1: to our show wherever you listen. It really helps others
Speaker 1: to find it. Well, that's all, folks, and we'll talk
Speaker 1: to you next week. But that's all, folks. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Lata