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Speaker 1: Hi Katie, Hi Brian, and hello everyone again from London.

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Speaker 1: When I visit the city, which is one of my favorites.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I always feel like Lindsay Lohan's character

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Speaker 1: or characters in The Parent Trap. Remember when she drives

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Speaker 1: around London soaking in all the sites and sounds. It's

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Speaker 1: so great. I love that movie, and of course you're

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Speaker 1: always compared to Lindsay Lohan. But anyway, now that you

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Speaker 1: mentioned that The Parent Trap is actually on theme with

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Speaker 1: today's show, and not just because it's in London. It's

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Speaker 1: also about a divorced couple and their tug of war

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Speaker 1: over their kids. That's right. It does have a wonderfully

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Speaker 1: happy ending, but we won't get into that. But messy relationships,

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Speaker 1: those are today's guests, bread and butter. Sharon Horgan is

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Speaker 1: a British writer, actor, and producer whose body of work

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Speaker 1: has covered everything from dating and not being sure about

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Speaker 1: getting married, to trying to make a marriage work, to Yes,

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Speaker 1: d I v O r c E. Which, by the way,

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Speaker 1: is the name of Sharon series for HBO, which stars

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Speaker 1: Sarah Jessica Parker and Thomas Hayden Church. I guess you

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Speaker 1: have to have three names to be on that show,

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Speaker 1: and in the last dozen years, Sharon has written or

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Speaker 1: co written no fewer than four UK TV series and

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Speaker 1: acted in even more. Her break through show was a

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Speaker 1: dark comedy series on the BBC called Pulling And for

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Speaker 1: those of you who do not know uh and get

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Speaker 1: your minds out of the gutter, pulling is a bit

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Speaker 1: of British slang and we had Sharon explain what it

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Speaker 1: means and stay tuned for that because it is a

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Speaker 1: bit saucy. More recently, Sharon has been co starring and

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Speaker 1: writing the Amazon series Catastrophe, which is about to launch

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Speaker 1: its fourth season, and Sharon met Rob Delaney, her Catastrophe

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Speaker 1: co star and co creator, on Twitter. How very twenty

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Speaker 1: one Century of Them? That shows all about a sexy

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Speaker 1: fling that resulted in a row pregnancy and a new

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Speaker 1: couple trying to make a life together, getting things a

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Speaker 1: bit out of border. That's not even to mention yet

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Speaker 1: another current TV show of Sharon's motherland. And she does

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Speaker 1: really make me feel lazy Katy, I think compared to Sharon,

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Speaker 1: we're both kind of lazy brand what are we going

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Speaker 1: to do? Anyway? We were super psyched to have That's

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Speaker 1: what they say over here in Britain. Isn't it super

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Speaker 1: psyched to have come and do our podcast here in London,

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Speaker 1: especially after a long day of filming. And we talked

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Speaker 1: about all kinds of things for various TV shows, her

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Speaker 1: childhood and why she got into acting, her friendship with

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Speaker 1: the late Great Carrie Fisher. We also talked about the vote,

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Speaker 1: the recent vote in Ireland, the me Too movement, and

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Speaker 1: your favorite subject, Brian Gregsit Okay, Sharon Oregon. We're so

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Speaker 1: happy to have you here. We're here in London and

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Speaker 1: we're interviewing you. So life is good for us, but

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Speaker 1: perhaps not as good for you because you've been filming

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Speaker 1: all day long. You're probably exhausted and about ready to

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Speaker 1: kill us now, I mean I'm going to kill you.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a pleasure to be here. I'm just like

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Speaker 1: worried that I'm brain dead. I mean, also I'm in

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Speaker 1: trouble with my eldest daughter because I'm supposed to be

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Speaker 1: at home. But that aside, I'm more worried about just

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Speaker 1: you know, my fatigue making your show not interesting. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm worried about your eldest daughter and please extend her

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Speaker 1: My apologies to her, So, so you make me feel

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Speaker 1: like such a loser. You're doing three TV shows at

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Speaker 1: at the same time. You're starting in one, writing and

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Speaker 1: producing two others. You were just in Game Night, so

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Speaker 1: obviously you're doing some film as well. You're running a

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Speaker 1: production company with your female partner, well your partner, not

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Speaker 1: your female partner. You're you're not married to your production

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Speaker 1: company partner. So are are you now? When people say partner,

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Speaker 1: I'm always like, Wayne, but are you loving life? Are

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Speaker 1: you really stressed out? What is your state of my vs? Days? Sharon?

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Speaker 1: I mean it kind of changes day to day. Really,

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Speaker 1: yesterday I hated my life and today, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: all right. It's yeah, it's a bit busy at the

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Speaker 1: moment because of our production company, and you know, there's

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Speaker 1: a few things sort of moving at the one time.

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Speaker 1: But that always happens, doesn't that I mean exact right,

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Speaker 1: So I still have that slight thing of um because

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Speaker 1: I got my break kind of late in life. I'm

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Speaker 1: still like, you know, you've got yeah, exactly, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's ridiculous. I should just take some time off. Let's

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Speaker 1: just be, you know, like a normal person. One. But

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, it's kind of an unpredictable business.

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Speaker 1: And when your hat your hat, sister, yeah it is.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's the problem. That's my that is the problem.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, but I mean most of the time, I

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Speaker 1: just feel pretty lucky because I enjoy my job. Like

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Speaker 1: it's hard work, but you know, it's got lots of

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Speaker 1: plus science. The good news is things are going really

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Speaker 1: really well. I mean, I'll kidding aside, you're in demand,

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Speaker 1: you're doing great work. You're doing I'm sure what you

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Speaker 1: dreamt that you could do one day. Oh god, yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah, So take a moment and soak that in.

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Speaker 1: I will. I mean, people keep telling me to do that.

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Speaker 1: Really nice women actually keep telling me to do that

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Speaker 1: because they sort of notice it more than anyone else,

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Speaker 1: Like just go and like, you know, have a burger

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Speaker 1: or you know, Rob and I when we first started

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Speaker 1: writing Catastrophe, we planned constantly that at some point when

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Speaker 1: we when we finished writing, like whatever, it was the

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Speaker 1: first series at that point, just like we should just go,

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Speaker 1: we should just go and have lunch, you know. And

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Speaker 1: there's never just been a moment. We're all like always

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Speaker 1: just like you know, last minute writing. It's always like

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Speaker 1: a crazy kick bollock scrumble and then you know, then

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Speaker 1: there's no time for lunch. So, speaking of catastrophe, of

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Speaker 1: which I'm a big fan, the name comes from orb

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Speaker 1: of the Greek as I've learned. So tell us about

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Speaker 1: that quote, I'm married, Um God, what is the quote? Again?

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Speaker 1: I'm very I have a wife, kids, house. The whole

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Speaker 1: catastrophe what it was about, it was it was too

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Speaker 1: I mean, we love the idea of, you know, terrible

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Speaker 1: things happening to regular people and those people kind of

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Speaker 1: finding a way out of it, you know. Um, but

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Speaker 1: also we like the idea that just marriage is a catastrophe,

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Speaker 1: just as a as an idea, you know. Um. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: we just I don't know, Rob came up with it,

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Speaker 1: and we just it was one of those things like

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Speaker 1: everyone will tell you that the title they give something,

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Speaker 1: it's a working title. And I really think it's looking better.

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Speaker 1: I mean everything I've ever written is like, that'll do

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Speaker 1: for now. And then you're like God, and then you

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Speaker 1: know you go with us. Well it does kind of

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Speaker 1: say it all. And before we talk about the premise

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Speaker 1: of the show, which is so funny and so great,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about Rapp Delaney for a second, because you

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Speaker 1: all met on Twitter, which to me strikes me as

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Speaker 1: so funny. Although I'm starting to get to know people

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Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter and sometimes I d M people

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Speaker 1: and you know, people tell me things on the social

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Speaker 1: media platforms and then I start talking to them and

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Speaker 1: developing a relationship. How did it happen with you and Roth?

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Speaker 1: It was kind of like that, really, Um. He he'd

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Speaker 1: started getting a lot of interest in the UK, UM,

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Speaker 1: just because he's he's so funny, like he's always done

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Speaker 1: these amazing one liners and he you know, he's kind

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Speaker 1: of gross and I mean the stuff he says not

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Speaker 1: not him and um, so I started following him and

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Speaker 1: and I noticed he was following me. And at that

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Speaker 1: point when I joined Twitter, I'd had a show on

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Speaker 1: the BBC called Pulling and he had somehow watched UM

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Speaker 1: in the US, and so he got in touch with

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Speaker 1: me just to say that he enjoyed the show and

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Speaker 1: and I was like, well, you're great as well. I like,

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Speaker 1: that's like you had a little Twitter flirtation. Not really,

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Speaker 1: but you know, he was pay his picture on Twitter

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Speaker 1: He's on a beach in green speedos. So yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: an element of that I thought he looked like Buck Rogers.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, a few of us were like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: who's this guy? And uh and then I when I

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Speaker 1: when I went to the US to work, I'd go

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Speaker 1: and see him do stand up and we sort of

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Speaker 1: kind of became friendly, and you know, we sort of

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Speaker 1: planned to work together on something. And then he Um,

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Speaker 1: the BBC originally offered him, you know, a sort of

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Speaker 1: script deal, and he was like, I've never written a

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Speaker 1: sitcom before. We you write with me, and and the

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Speaker 1: rest is history. They say, you never know how these

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Speaker 1: things are going to go. I mean and definitely, and

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Speaker 1: we always say it. We we literally never expected it

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Speaker 1: to go beyond writing something for fun, you know, and

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Speaker 1: it would get turned down and then but yeah, it

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Speaker 1: sort of it worked out. And yeah, series four, Season four,

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Speaker 1: now you're shooting now, right, And and for people who

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Speaker 1: don't love this show like Brian and I do, or

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Speaker 1: maybe or haven't discovered it yet, tell us quickly the premise, um, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the premise really is um. Is their partnership,

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Speaker 1: is the marriage? I mean, I guess the very genesis

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Speaker 1: of it is them meeting Um, you know, he they

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Speaker 1: meet they have this wonderful sort of six days in London.

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Speaker 1: He gets are pregnant, and they decided to just have

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Speaker 1: a go, you know, because of their ages and situations,

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Speaker 1: and they like each other. I mean they do like

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Speaker 1: there's definitely you know, in the first episode you can

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Speaker 1: sort of see that there's something there and so yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's excited. The pregnancy is a complete show. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of slightly based on my life

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Speaker 1: situation a little in that I got pregnant very quickly

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Speaker 1: with you know, a man's baby, and you know, we

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Speaker 1: just decided to have a go, and you know, we're

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Speaker 1: still together. But yeah, we just we just liked the

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Speaker 1: idea of writing about a real marriage and and really

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Speaker 1: genuinely making it as words and all as possible. And

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Speaker 1: when the kids come along, we didn't want to write

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Speaker 1: about what it's like to be a parent. We kind

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Speaker 1: of wanted to write about what it's like to continue

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Speaker 1: to have a relationship whilst being a parent. You know,

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Speaker 1: So it's never been about the kids. It's always been

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Speaker 1: about them. I mean, I think we've given the kid

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Speaker 1: one line in four years. The genesis, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: is based on this unexpected pregnancy. Here is the clip

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Speaker 1: from the show Let's take a listen. You just don't

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Speaker 1: think that stuff like this will happen. What they repeated,

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Speaker 1: sexual intercourse between two healthy adults will do the exact

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Speaker 1: thing it's supposed to do. Have you ever done a

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Speaker 1: science class? You know how to read. I'm sorry, I'm

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Speaker 1: not pregnant, and you are and it's because of me.

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Speaker 1: But if you're going to have this baby, he says,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to, Uh, well, how old are you? Look?

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Speaker 1: The good news is is that we're reasonably good people,

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Speaker 1: so we could probably do this and not fund the

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Speaker 1: kid up too horribly. I'm just saying, a terrible thing

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Speaker 1: has happened. Let's make the best of it. So are

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Speaker 1: you staying I'm joking, I'm staying in my spare room.

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Speaker 1: I'm joking. I'm a teacher. I'm a spare room. So

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Speaker 1: so much of this show, if not ripped from the headlines,

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Speaker 1: is ripped from the pages of your actual life. And

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Speaker 1: we'll get to your other shows and how they're ripped

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Speaker 1: from the pages of your life as well. But is

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Speaker 1: it true that nothing from this show is really made up?

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Speaker 1: That either happened to Robert to you in some form.

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Speaker 1: I think we said, um in the first series that

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Speaker 1: we made up some ridiculous figure, like you know, percent

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Speaker 1: of it and mean there there there was a bunch

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Speaker 1: of stuff in the first series that was pulled from

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Speaker 1: our lives and you know, bigger ideas and small plot

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Speaker 1: lines and you know, tiny little detail. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: were kind of stealing. But but as it's gone on,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of become less and less because we know

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Speaker 1: the characters more and we know you know, what they

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Speaker 1: would do as opposed to what you know we would do,

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Speaker 1: so and it's, um, yeah, it's been an interesting process

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Speaker 1: in that way. I mean, they'll still always be stuff

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Speaker 1: that's real in there, because we both you know, we

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Speaker 1: arrive into the writer's room having just come from our

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Speaker 1: lives and it's very hard to leave that behind when

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Speaker 1: you're writing a show that's you know, has similarities. And

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Speaker 1: also the cadence I would assume sort of the dialogue

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Speaker 1: and the way you talk, I mean, even sort of

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Speaker 1: that last line when you were making the joke about

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Speaker 1: being a teaching that, I mean, I would imagine we're

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Speaker 1: not friends, but that's probably something you would kind of

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Speaker 1: riff with, riff on with your friends or with your husband. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean we both m yeah, when when we walk

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Speaker 1: into the writer's room, we really do just start writing

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Speaker 1: down what each other are saying, you know, before we've

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Speaker 1: even kind of worked out any bigger sort of plotlines

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Speaker 1: and stuff that that kind of I think, Yes, how

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Speaker 1: you how you speak and how you say things, um,

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Speaker 1: sort of yeah, definitely comes into it a lot. Jeremy Rainboard,

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Speaker 1: your husband, who has the best name ever, by the way,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like a super action figure. Well, the good

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Speaker 1: news is he's home taking care of the girls right now.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, that's true. So so when he when he

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Speaker 1: watches this, does he ever say honey really? Um no,

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Speaker 1: I mean only in that, you know, he kind of

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Speaker 1: wishes that I dealt with my real life problems the

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Speaker 1: way you know, my character sales with them in the show.

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Speaker 1: I mean she's like a kind of more emotionally developed

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Speaker 1: version of me, you know, like she has those feelings

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Speaker 1: and says those things, but then kind of works through

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Speaker 1: them and comes out the other side. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: just kind of feel them and then just sort of

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Speaker 1: store them up like a horrible kind of bubbling councor Alright,

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Speaker 1: I think you're not a good talker. No, I mean

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Speaker 1: that's unusual because usually the woman all she wants to

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Speaker 1: do is talk and the guy won't. And in your case,

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Speaker 1: your you kind of keep things bottled up. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's just that's just what I've tell them to do.

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Speaker 1: It was an interview, it's actually a therapy session. I

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Speaker 1: have a little paper towel your head and a little

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Speaker 1: I don't know why it is, that is just it

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Speaker 1: is how it is, you know, my upbringing or something.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what we'll get to that. When you

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Speaker 1: when you embarked on this journey share and were you

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Speaker 1: writing I guess because you and Rob wrote this together.

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Speaker 1: So were you cognizant of making it appealing for both

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Speaker 1: sort of both sides of the pond, if you will.

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Speaker 1: Were you writing for an American audience, a British audience,

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Speaker 1: just any old audience you could get. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess to a certain extent it was any old audience,

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Speaker 1: because you know, the at the time, we you know,

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Speaker 1: we had no idea where it was going to go,

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Speaker 1: what was going to happen. But once we got beyond

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Speaker 1: the pilot, yeah, we definitely, we definitely had one eye

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Speaker 1: on on both camps, and you know there's those jokes

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Speaker 1: that don't kind of go in if we feel like

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Speaker 1: they won't translate. Um. So yeah, and also you know

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Speaker 1: how we chose to cast it, and you know, making

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Speaker 1: sure he had an American buddy in London and you know,

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Speaker 1: getting carry and we we definitely wanted to feel like

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Speaker 1: there was recognizable characters to a US and a UK audience.

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Speaker 1: And you know, not that you always need that. I

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Speaker 1: mean I think if you know stories have got a

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Speaker 1: kind of truth in them, you know anyone would kind

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Speaker 1: of get it. But definitely now we kind of have

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Speaker 1: an eye on both. And you just mentioned Carrie Fisher,

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Speaker 1: who played your sort of evil mother in law on

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Speaker 1: the show, and it's extraordinary. I mean, you had dinner

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Speaker 1: with her here in London the night before she died.

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Speaker 1: You wrote a very moving tribute to her in the

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Speaker 1: Hollywood Reporter. Um, what made her such a complete original? Why?

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Speaker 1: Why why did you? Um, why were you so attracted

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Speaker 1: to her? Well? We um, we went to this awards

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Speaker 1: do where she was giving an award to Graham Norton actually,

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Speaker 1: and we weren't expecting her to be there. We were

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Speaker 1: just in the audience and she got up and she

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Speaker 1: did this speech and you know, like any Carrie Fisher's speech,

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Speaker 1: it was kind of everything was you know, irreverend and

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Speaker 1: naughty and brave and very funny. And I think that

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Speaker 1: was it. I think we did. We just looked up

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Speaker 1: at and went, that's um, that's your mom there, Rob,

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Speaker 1: And we just never thought for a second she'd say yes,

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Speaker 1: but she did. And why we we chose her is

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Speaker 1: because she is that unique person that you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, she was a complex individual and um,

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Speaker 1: but mainly I think it's very, very difficult to grow

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Speaker 1: up in that sort of very Hollywood lifestyle. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: apart from that, I think it's difficult obviously being Princess Leiah,

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Speaker 1: being such a so hugely famous that it kind of

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Speaker 1: almost kind of surpassed everything else. But she still, you know,

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Speaker 1: she just had a very sort of rye kind of

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Speaker 1: point of view on all that. I mean, she talked

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Speaker 1: about it a lot, and she talked about her family

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Speaker 1: a lot, and she was very open. She was really

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Speaker 1: good talker. Obviously, you could listen to her all night

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Speaker 1: and we were just desperate to get to hour from

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Speaker 1: the minute she showed up. But it wasn't until the

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Speaker 1: third season that. I don't know, it's just weird. We

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Speaker 1: just sort of clicked, you know. She just started messaging

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Speaker 1: me and I was like, you know, I was absolutely thrilled,

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Speaker 1: and we just started hanging out. She came to my

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Speaker 1: house in Hackney and I went for dinner and just

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Speaker 1: like talked a lot, laughed a lot, and yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: just horribly tragic because I mean, that night we had dinner,

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Speaker 1: there was you know, I mean, she she'd like health

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Speaker 1: troubles and stuff, you know, of course, but it just

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Speaker 1: didn't it didn't seem like someone who she seemed like

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Speaker 1: someone who had a lot of plans. You know, she

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Speaker 1: had a lot more to give. And she also she

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Speaker 1: loved acting. You know, that was the thing I really

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Speaker 1: sort of learned about her. She really she really wanted

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Speaker 1: to do more, and it kind of bothered her that

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Speaker 1: she didn't kind of get the opportunities that she would

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Speaker 1: have liked to have to have gotten. And but yeah,

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Speaker 1: we we genuinely felt and I'm gonna see blast and

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Speaker 1: lucky to have her for that short time. I mean,

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Speaker 1: on a ridiculous privilege. I was going to say, it

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Speaker 1: sounds like you all became actually really really good friends.

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Speaker 1: And so it must have been surreal, Sharon, for you

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Speaker 1: to spend this time with her, you know, having so

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Speaker 1: much fun the night before, and then hearing the news

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Speaker 1: that this had happened. It must have been such a shock.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember when you heard that and how you

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Speaker 1: were able to process it? Yeah? I absolutely remember, because

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Speaker 1: I was having a Christmas drinks party in my house

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Speaker 1: and my daughter came running down from upstairs because you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously she's a teenager and on social media all the time,

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Speaker 1: and they came running into the kitchen and told me,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, well I just had to leave my own party,

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Speaker 1: and I went upstairs and I start That's when I

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Speaker 1: started writing that article, because I thought, if I don't

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Speaker 1: write down this stuff now, like what if I don't

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Speaker 1: remember the conversation, Like what if I remember the last

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Speaker 1: thing she said to me when she walked up to

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Speaker 1: her bedroom, And so like that's how I kind of

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Speaker 1: processed it. I just immediately started writing everything down. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I guess in some ways, I mean not

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Speaker 1: to to be pollyannish about it. As tragic as as

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Speaker 1: Carrie's death was. I mean, what a gift that you

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Speaker 1: got to work with her and get to know her

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Speaker 1: and you know, and spend time with her. But it

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Speaker 1: is it's so heartbreaking because I watched that documentary about

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Speaker 1: her mother and with with Debbie Reynolds, and I think

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Speaker 1: you're right. It was such a unique sort of situation

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Speaker 1: and they're living right next door to her mom, and

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Speaker 1: the you can understand how crazy making that whole scene was.

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Speaker 1: And the fact that Carrie Fisher survived and in some

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Speaker 1: ways thrived despite these kind of this very uh sort

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Speaker 1: of high octane in the light Hollywood existence, I think

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Speaker 1: is pretty remarkable. I haven't watched it yet, I think

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Speaker 1: as it came out not too long after death, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, I just don't think I can because

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Speaker 1: she was so and also we were editing the third

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Speaker 1: season when it happens, so we were like seeing her

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Speaker 1: every every day and she's so alive on screen. And

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Speaker 1: then I thought, I can't watch it, but I definitely

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Speaker 1: will at some point. It's very much worth watching for

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Speaker 1: her and for Debbie. Yeah. Yeah, Well, when we come back,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk to you, Sharon about sort of

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Speaker 1: how you got into this crazy business. You're sort of

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Speaker 1: Irish heritage or for Irish heritage right your your work

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Speaker 1: with Sarah Jessica Parker, which a lot of our listeners

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Speaker 1: will be interested in. So we'll be back with more

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Speaker 1: from Sharon right after this. Remember we love hearing from

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Speaker 1: you listeners. Listeners like Julio Lopez, who wrote this to us,

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Speaker 1: take it away, Katie. I enjoyed the show so much.

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Speaker 1: I even considered offering my services as the Lighty to

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Speaker 1: your barefoot contessa. That's very sweet of you, Julia, Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much, and for everyone else. Lighty is Ena

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Speaker 1: Garten's assistant who was featured in the interview we taped

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Speaker 1: in INA's kitchen. Julia also wrote, I would be remiss

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Speaker 1: if I did not mention that Katie singing Oh, I

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Speaker 1: love this, Julia is one of the highlights of the show.

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Speaker 1: Well for some of us, Well, thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry. I'm going to keep those hits coming. We

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Speaker 1: also heard recently from an Irish listener, gosh, we're so international,

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Speaker 1: Brian named Thomas. Why don't you read that one and

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Speaker 1: try not to do it with an Irish accent? Oh damn,

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Speaker 1: I was about to sure think, Thomas writes, I have

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00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: to say that the Trump era has somewhat changed the

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00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: image of your country to the rest of the world.

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00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: The US on your podcast, however, remind us of the

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Speaker 1: great forward thinking minds that still originate from America, and

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Speaker 1: listening to your show, I became a lot more optimistic

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Speaker 1: about the future ahead. By the way, Thomas also wrote, ps,

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Speaker 1: come on a world tour and visit us sometime, kind

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Speaker 1: of the Irish version of May West this Tamus. Hey,

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Speaker 1: we didn't make it all the way to Ireland this time,

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Speaker 1: but hopefully you'll be enjoying these London episodes. Remember if

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Speaker 1: you want to drop us a line, you can email

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Speaker 1: us at comments at current podcast dot com or call

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Speaker 1: and leave a message at two to four, four, six,

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00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: three seven. The messages really mean a lot to us

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Speaker 1: and we try to read and listen to all of them,

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Speaker 1: so please keep them coming people. And now back to

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Speaker 1: our conversation with Sharon Horgan. Sharon, you talked about the

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Speaker 1: difference a little bit between British and American humor, and

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Speaker 1: there's this great quote in a New Yorker profile of

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Speaker 1: you that UK sitcoms tend to be darker than America

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Speaker 1: could ones encouraged by a powerful public broadcasting system whose

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Speaker 1: aim is to serve the varying taste of taxpayers, not

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Speaker 1: the upbeat preferences of advertisers, and by a national psyche

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Speaker 1: fixated on the immutability of the class system, not on

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Speaker 1: a dream of self improvement. Americans believe that things will

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Speaker 1: get better. Brits laugh at how things stay the same.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's right? Um, yeah, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: guess essentially, I mean, I think the game sort of

427
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 1: changes and is changing all the time, because I think

428
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 1: there's a huge difference between what you see on a

429
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 1: on a network TV channel, you know, in an NBC

430
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 1: or ABC, and what you know goes out on Amazon

431
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,719
Speaker 1: or HBO. And but yeah, I mean when when I

432
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: was initially working over there making pilots, I found it

433
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: hard to sort of tell the stories I wanted to

434
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: tell because it felt like there always had to be

435
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 1: a kind of moral at the end, and you know,

436
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: there had to be a kind of rosy ending, and

437
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: we never felt the need to do that here. And

438
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: I think all of the most famous and successful sitcoms

439
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: very happy to have an unlikable hero at the heart

440
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 1: of it, and that you don't have to be successful,

441
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to be good at your job.

442
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 1: It didn't feel like on u KTV you needed to

443
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: do any of those, um those things people perceived class

444
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: differently and whether the future is always going to be

445
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 1: better differently. Yeah, I don't know. I mean the class thing.

446
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't really mention Rosanne now Ken you

447
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 1: but Kenny, well, it's just sit back in the day.

448
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,719
Speaker 1: That was the sitcom that sort of inspired me to

449
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: want to write sitcom you know, I mean out of

450
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 1: the U the U S sitcoms because it was a

451
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: working class family and it did kind of allow you to,

452
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: you know, laugh with them, but you know, be ad

453
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: with them, and um, it wasn't aspirational, but you know

454
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: you kind of wanted to spend time with them. And

455
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: I mean that doesn't seem to be something that you

456
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: saw that regularly on on USTv. It felt kind of unusual. Um,

457
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: I mean I don't know, I only read on Twitter

458
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: what happens about that? Yeah, so, I mean on Twitter

459
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: and you pretty much have the story then because it

460
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: all started on Twitter. And when when you read about that,

461
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: did you think, I yi yi or what what was

462
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:39,479
Speaker 1: your reaction? Um? Well, oh god, I mean I guess

463
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 1: it was it felt like absolute fair dues that they

464
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: canceled it, because I mean, that's an impossible situation to

465
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: be put in, isn't it. I mean, what a disaster.

466
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: But um, I just find her such a difficult character

467
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 1: to get my head around. And I actually just found

468
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 1: myself wondering what the dynamic was, you know, in the

469
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: writer's room and on set and you know, how that

470
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: how that worked, how involved you know was she or

471
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: you know in terms of storylines and but yeah, I

472
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: mean I just didn't see what else they could have done.

473
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: They were in a they couldn't win. You know, I

474
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you just because it happened so quickly

475
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 1: after Rosanne, Samantha be gotten a bit of hot water,

476
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: And I'm curious if you read about that. Yes, when

477
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: she you know, sometimes people are busy and they're not

478
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 1: as addicted to social media as some of us. But

479
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: you know, Samantha b who we've had on this podcast too,

480
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: I've got well, she's the opposite of unhinged. I think

481
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 1: she's I mean, I absolutely love her show, and I

482
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 1: love her and I think she's a really smart, brave woman,

483
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: and I think she's a great mouthpiece for you know,

484
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: American females to of there, I think she's you know, angry,

485
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: and she should be. I don't know, I think we

486
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: have a different relationship with that word here, you know,

487
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: I mean we kind of bondy it about. Like I

488
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about that because I read a

489
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,959
Speaker 1: column that was a bunch of journalists from the New

490
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: York Times, and Barry Wise is a columnist for the Times,

491
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: talked about how she dated somebody here and how this

492
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: word is a lot less incendiary that word in the

493
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: UK that it is in America, because in America it

494
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: is like horrifying. Yeah, but that's also kind of ridiculous

495
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,479
Speaker 1: because it's such an insane double standard. You know, it's

496
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: such an insane double standard that some words are considered

497
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: that bob, but other words are kind of you know,

498
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: glossed over. I mean, particularly just from the American right,

499
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, they're they're insane anger over. That

500
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: just doesn't just doesn't bring true to me in any way.

501
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: It a crazy time, isn't it. I Mean we are

502
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: talking about the C word, talking about all this stuff

503
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: that's going on, and uh, it's hard to keep up

504
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: with it, isn't it. Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

505
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting how comedy is sort of dealing

506
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: with it, you know, how how much comedy has sort

507
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: of taken it all. Everything is feels so fraught, Isn't

508
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: it like a landmine? That's it, And it's still shocking

509
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: every time you hear one of these things break. But

510
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do an awkward transition ask you a little

511
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: bit about your biography. Um, So you were born here

512
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: in Britain. Your dad owned a pub, which is I

513
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: don't know, stereotypical but still kind of cool. But you

514
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: actually moved to a turkey farm in Ireland when you

515
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: were really little. So do you consider yourself British or

516
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: Irish or some combination of the two. Well, no, I

517
00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: consider myself um Irish. Um, but I always so kind

518
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: of consider myself a Londoner. I suppose because it's one

519
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: of those cities that it kind of feels part of you.

520
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: I guess like New Yorkers feel. Um. I moved to

521
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: Ireland when I was really little on my mom's Irish.

522
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: She met my dad in London. That's why you know

523
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: I was kind of born here. Um. You know, my

524
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: brothers and sisters are Irish because they were all born

525
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: there except from my older sister, and I don't know,

526
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: I guess it. It's it's one of those countries that

527
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: kind of you know, it's just in your blood. There's

528
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: nothing you can do about it. I mean, I've got

529
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: a kind of ridiculous accent now that isn't really I

530
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: have to show you not very Irish at all. I

531
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: was going to say, what is it. It's just a mess,

532
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: that's what it is. It's like twenty five years of

533
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: living in London and then occasionally helping back to Ireland

534
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: and you know, inhaling some of the accent just to

535
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: you know, at least get the vowels right. Do you

536
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: find you slip into, you know, talking with much more

537
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: of an Irish accent when you go home or yeah,

538
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: I do. But then it's almost more ridiculous in a

539
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: way because it's like I'm trying to be one of

540
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: the gang, so so talk to me and you're I'm

541
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: not going to see that because it'll sound like a

542
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: called Irish accent and then I won't get any work. Well,

543
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: you you did? You always want to be an actress

544
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: from the time you were young or when did you

545
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: get bitten by the bug. Oh, I mean kind of

546
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,479
Speaker 1: mid teens. I think I wanted to go to our college.

547
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: I mean way before I I you know, decided that

548
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: I wanted to be an actor. I don't know, I'm

549
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: not sure where that came from. Just you know, I

550
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: come from a large Irish family, so you know, the

551
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: attention seeking must be part of it. But many kids

552
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: in your family, there's five of us. That's kind of smart.

553
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to fight your way to fight

554
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: your way to the top of that one. Um. But yeah,

555
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: I don't know where the acting thing came from because

556
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: you know, like you said, turkey farm, it's not the

557
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: sort of I mean, who do I think I was

558
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: kind of thing. How good were you at plucking the turkeys?

559
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: That's it's pretty okay. Yeah, I would not want to. Yeah,

560
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: it's a revolting it's horrible job. Yes, yes, it's vile.

561
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: I made a little short film about it a few

562
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: years but it's called The Week Before Christmas because growing

563
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: up on a turkey farm, you know, it was all

564
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: about it was all about Christmas, and it was a

565
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: crazy time of year and we as kids kind of

566
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: you know, I just had to had to deal with it,

567
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: had to deal with the craziness of it. But there

568
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: was like, within within all those years there was some

569
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: kind of interesting stories that kind of kind of condensed

570
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: into one kind of fifteen minutes short film. It's kind

571
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: of a love load. We're gonna have to check that out. Yeah,

572
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: I'll send it to you. So it didn't really work

573
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: out initially for you in terms of acting, right, I mean,

574
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 1: you couldn't get arrested, basically, that's true. True mind you

575
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: sad chapter in your bath. It all worked out, but

576
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: you were working, I guess and at an employment center

577
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: in London while you were pursuing an acting career, not

578
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: particularly successfully at the time. And then you kind of

579
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: had a holy ship moment literally right and you said,

580
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: I'm out of here. What happened? What was my holy

581
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: ship moments? Well? I was working in a job center,

582
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: an employment service center for six years. Um, you know

583
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: that wasn't good. I was, you know, I was kind

584
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: of doing the odd play above pubs, you know, a

585
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: bit of fringe theater, but really you know, not not

586
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: getting anywhere. And I think not trying really because if

587
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: I tried, I might get it and then fail you know. So,

588
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm guessing that that's what it was because

589
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: I can't think of a better reason. But yeah, I

590
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: was asked by my office manager one day if i'd

591
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: clean up at the front of the building, and I went.

592
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: I was like, First of all, I was like, why

593
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: are you asking me to clean up? But anyway, I

594
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: went out the front of the building and there was, Yeah,

595
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: there was a human turd on the pavement. And I

596
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: just sort of how did you know it was human?

597
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: By the way, it's it's pretty obvious case been a

598
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: big dog. I guess it could have been. I guess

599
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: it could have been. I don't know. I live in

600
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: New York Share and I see this have been frequently

601
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: with big dogs, And I was like, holy moly, wow,

602
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: do you know what people? Where is your bag? No?

603
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: I do, actually, and I see people that seen up

604
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 1: after their dog. I say, squeeze me. You actually say

605
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: squeeze me. Yeah, but I do call them out. But anyway,

606
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: so you said, yeah, I just I just went back

607
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: in and then I handed in my notice and I

608
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: left and and I went to university. And when I

609
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 1: went and applied to do a degree in English, and

610
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: part of my degree was creative writing, and that's kind

611
00:34:54,760 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 1: of what got me writing creatively creatively. Just a fast forward,

612
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: you met Dennis Kelly uh in a pub of all places,

613
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: you meet people in the strange place this year, and

614
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: you all teamed up and you created the aforementioned show Pulling.

615
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: I'm afraid to ask where that name came from. By

616
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: the way, Well you know what it means, right, I don't. Oh, well,

617
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 1: pulling over here is just like going out to get yourself,

618
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, a guy or a girl. It's it's like

619
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: going out specifically to use it in a sentence for me, Um,

620
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: did you pull anyone the other night? Yes? I did. Yeah,

621
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: I got really lucky. I pulled a really really good

622
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: looking lad. I mean, that's that's all it is. It's

623
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: it's hooked up or nailed. It means hooked up. I

624
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: mean it could be you could pull someone and it's

625
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: just like a bit of making out. Or you could

626
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: pull someone and you know, you go home with them.

627
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: I mean there's a whole, there's a rain, there's a

628
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: range of pulling. Thank you. I feel so much smarter

629
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: now for knowing that. Yeah, so that's where it came from,

630
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: and that became a cult hit and that was sort

631
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: of about your life in your twenties. Yeah, well Milan

632
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: Dennis Kelly's life completely because we both you know, we're

633
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: both on sort of wrong paths, um, and yet we

634
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: both found ourselves living you know, in the capital city,

635
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: living in London with no money, you know, with not

636
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: many prospects, in bad relationships, doing jobs we didn't like.

637
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: But you know, living in London and sort of seeing

638
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: that there was something much better over there, you know

639
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 1: that someone else was having and so yeah, it was

640
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,399
Speaker 1: kind of it's kind of about that time. It's about

641
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: that sort of difficult time where you're you realize you're

642
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: definitely not a kid anymore, but you definitely don't have

643
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,919
Speaker 1: the skills to to be a proper grown up. So

644
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: when that show came out, you were also either pregnant

645
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: or you just had a baby. Yeah, your daughter, Yeah,

646
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: it's one of them. It's waiting for you, but you

647
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 1: remember her. Okay. Anyway, you said it was the making

648
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: of me. It gave me a different work ethic. So

649
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: how did having a baby make you and change you? Um?

650
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 1: Just focus, I guess just um, I really liked being

651
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: a mom like way more than I thought. I like it.

652
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 1: I really like babies, and I wanted to hang out

653
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,479
Speaker 1: with her, and so if I was going to work,

654
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 1: I just had to make sure that the time I

655
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,760
Speaker 1: was away from her was used really productively and wisely.

656
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: So it just made me, you know, someone would come

657
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: in to look after her. Obviously, I just didn't like

658
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: leave Renny corner. You didn't leave the door open. So yeah,

659
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: I would just sit down in my desk and work

660
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: solidly for those hours when I when I had a childminder,

661
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 1: and that was the kind of that's what kind of

662
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: termed from babysitter here, child mind, childminder. Yeah, but you

663
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: can say babysitter. Babysitter kind of implies something you do

664
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: in the evening. You know, a teenage girl baby there

665
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: was more fun. Maybe there's more fun. So I'm a

666
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 1: relatively new parent, and uh, there's something I struggle with people.

667
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people just talk about this

668
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: in the context of women, but it affects men to

669
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: sort of work life balance. When your work, you feel

670
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: guilty for being with your kid. When you're with your kid,

671
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: you feel guilty for not working. How have you dealt

672
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: with all of that? Because you've seemed to manage both

673
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: pretty well. Oh do you know that? What do you

674
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: know that? Well? Manage both very well? Her kids seemed

675
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: to like her some of the time, and her professional

676
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: life is going really well. So I don't know, I

677
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,439
Speaker 1: was making a bit of an assumption. Yeah you did,

678
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: but that's okay. Is that a correct assumption or an

679
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: incorrect assumption? I don't know. I think I've gotten better

680
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: at it over the years. I think back in the day,

681
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:55,720
Speaker 1: it used to stress me out horribly. Guilt was massive,

682
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: But then I still realized, you know, they've turned out

683
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: pretty well. They're both really nice girls. You know, we

684
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: all like each other. I mean, I've it's nothing terrible

685
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: has happened, you know, And I'm definitely I definitely give

686
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: myself less of a hard time than I used to,

687
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: because I mean, I guess I figured out what was

688
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: the point of it, And I think, I don't know,

689
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: I think you have to stop giving yourself a hard

690
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: time before you can stop sort of giving other women

691
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,399
Speaker 1: a hard time as well. I mean, I think it's

692
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: really um easy to I don't know, just to go

693
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: out and say that you're supportive of of women in

694
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 1: this industry and you know what should be happening, and

695
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: you know, but it's actually it's really important when a

696
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: woman turns around and says to you, um, you know, God,

697
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,959
Speaker 1: I had to go away for you know, a week

698
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: or a month or whatever it was. And instead of going,

699
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: God the kids miss you, just go, you know, no

700
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 1: good for you? How are you? You know you're actually

701
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: need to drink, you know, And I'm just I don't know.

702
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: I think it's really important to give give each other

703
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: a break and also give yourself a break. Yeah, I

704
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 1: just didn't feel that guilty. And I was a single

705
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: mom for most of my children's lives, and I feel

706
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: like working and being out in the world made them

707
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: proud of me and also made them more independent. I

708
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,240
Speaker 1: think sometimes, you know, you spend too much time worrying

709
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: and hovering. And I was so excited when I went

710
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: back to work after Ellie was born. It was like,

711
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 1: I gotta go because I had this nasty green villo

712
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: or bathrobe and I was trying to use this freaking

713
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: breast pump and it was such a nightmare. I could

714
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: not wait to get out of there. Well, I mean,

715
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: the thing is, I was not really bad, am I

716
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: I'm not judging people are gonna think they shouldn't. The

717
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: thing is is when I get in in the evening,

718
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:53,760
Speaker 1: I mean, it's different when I'm filming because you finished

719
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: really late, especially when you come and do podcasts after

720
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: you've finished filming. We apologize to you, but what no

721
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 1: probally writing I you know, I finish a decent time.

722
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: I get home for supper. We have supper together, like

723
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: you know, read stories, and I think having dinner again

724
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: and and and I mean obviously not always, but as

725
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 1: much as we can. But like I think, when I'm

726
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: when I'm having that time my kids, I think, what

727
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: would I do if I got home like two hours earlier.

728
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: I mean I would just I would be a less

729
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: good mother because I would be less you know, on

730
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,439
Speaker 1: it or fun or you know, less focused on them.

731
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: I honestly wouldn't know how to use the extra time.

732
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: And that's the truth. I think. The bottom line is

733
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: people have to do what's right for them. You know,

734
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 1: I respect women who want to stay home and men

735
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: who want to stay home, which we're seeing an increasing

736
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: number of men. Also, there's a lot of women who can't.

737
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: They don't have that choice. It's not like I can afford,

738
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: you know you, They have to go out to work.

739
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: So for them, those women especially, it's not about choice.

740
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: So absolutely we have to support them completely. I agree,

741
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: so and if and if you. I was trying to

742
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: come up with a cute segue to divorce, but that

743
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 1: just isn't working. Um um um. You teamed up with

744
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: Sarah Jesca Parker for on HBO for her show Divorce.

745
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: I know she hadn't done a TV show since Sex

746
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: in the City. Were you a big fan by the

747
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: way of Sex in the City. Yes, absolutely, I've watched

748
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: every episode like five times, except for the funky spunk one,

749
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: which I inadvertently watched with my eight year old and

750
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: twelve year old at the time. My daughter's basically learned

751
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: about the birds and the bees from Sex in the City.

752
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: How did you how did you pull Sarah? Just? Well, well,

753
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,760
Speaker 1: we were set up by HBO. I'd written some scripts

754
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: for HBO that hadn't got picked up, and I was

755
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: developing something else with them, and at that time she

756
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: had just begune through her company pretty much as you know,

757
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: developing something, trying to find something, and HBO just suggested

758
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: that we might like to meet, and I think she

759
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 1: she'd read a couple of my scription and seen something

760
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: I've done, and so they flew me over to New

761
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: York to met arn. We had lunch and talked about

762
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: you know what TV she liked and you know what

763
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 1: stories we wanted to tell, and then it kind of

764
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: came from there. The show is about the unraveling of

765
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: a relationship, a show that quotes days Mired in the

766
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: angry muck. According to The New Yorker, it's also about

767
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: the divorce industry, and I think the collateral damage right

768
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: that happens when a couple gets divorced. Clearly it's not

769
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 1: based on your life experiences so far, and we hope

770
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,439
Speaker 1: it never is. But why did you want to go there?

771
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: What interested you in the dissolution of a marriage? Well,

772
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: I mean Sarah Jessica was wanting to make a show

773
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 1: about a long term relationship that was, you know, in crisis.

774
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,240
Speaker 1: I mean that's what she was looking for it anyway,

775
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: and a friend of mine had recently gotten divorced, and

776
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: you know, I guess how she talked about it. Um,

777
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 1: those sort of stories stayed with me, and I just,

778
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: you know, watch the more the roses and UM a

779
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: few other things that it's sort of, you know, inspired

780
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: that as a sort of a good route for UM

781
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,879
Speaker 1: telling the story of that relationship, because you know, they're

782
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the end of a very long

783
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: term relationship, and you know, the kind of that sort

784
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: of idea of who are they now? I mean when

785
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: you leave that behind, that that marriage has been part

786
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: of your life and your psyche for so long that

787
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: you know kind of what happens when when you when

788
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: you separate that. And like you said, I thought it

789
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: would be interesting to show the industry around that and

790
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: how that sort of you know, how people you know

791
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: they're they're not just battling an X, they're battling all

792
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: the people that surround them who are basically feeding off

793
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 1: there the carcass of of their marriage. And not just

794
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: the industry, but the friends that you know that are

795
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 1: there as well, friends who have either been through divorce

796
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: or you know, are in a bad relationship and want one.

797
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: You know, the kind of the influences that those two

798
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: people you know have. And I started reading about divorce stories,

799
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: reading about the really long term ones that just go

800
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: on and on and on and start out not horribly

801
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: but end up so acrimonious because they're, you know, fighting

802
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: about stuff that they just shouldn't be fighting about just

803
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 1: to punish each other. And I don't know, it just

804
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,800
Speaker 1: felt like, um, it felt like a sort of story

805
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,839
Speaker 1: area that had a lot of possibilities and it resonates

806
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:50,280
Speaker 1: with at least we have a clip of a scene

807
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 1: from Divorce. Let's take a listen to that. I don't

808
00:45:53,239 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: love you anymore. I want to divorce. Oh God, Robert

809
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: beating so much cheese? Listen, Robert, are you hearing what

810
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: I'm saying? Are you hearing me? Chee? I heard? Can

811
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 1: I get your full name? At constant? Can you just

812
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 1: I'm sorry? Can you just wait one second? Please? Can

813
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: you just hang on? Robert listen to me? Listen. We

814
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:20,919
Speaker 1: don't have to make this horrible, alright, I don't want

815
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: it to be horrible. I'm sorry. He had a lot

816
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: of fun to Those are two pretty special actors with

817
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: Sarah Jessica Parker and Thomas Hayden Church and they each

818
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: have three names? What up with that? I know? Has

819
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: it been fun to work with them? I mean it

820
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 1: was an amazing experience. I mean they're amazing to watch

821
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,919
Speaker 1: them and sometimes I would say the monitor and kind

822
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 1: of forget that I was at work and think I was,

823
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: you know, watching TV because it was very surreal. You know,

824
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 1: it was very surreal for me and kind of overpowering. Um,

825
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: but um, yeah, it was. I went. I went to

826
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,399
Speaker 1: New York and I stayed there for five months. That

827
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: is not a good or easy thing to do when

828
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 1: you have a family, even if you're sort of flying

829
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: back and forth. And it was tricky, but I loved it.

830
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: I love the show that came out of it. Um.

831
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: I was very uninvolved in the second season. Um, I

832
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 1: just got to sort of read scripts, you know, at

833
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 1: the very beginning, and so it's kind of sort of

834
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: gone off and taken a life of its own, and um,

835
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: it's still like it's still a kind of surreal, kind

836
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 1: of pinch myself kind of moment. I got to got

837
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: to do that. And when you hear Thomas Hayden Church Vomity,

838
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: just now it just must just because that was the

839
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: pilot and it was I mean, it was an amazing experience,

840
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 1: but it's pilots are hardcore stress just getting all that

841
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: story told in such a sure period of time. So

842
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: everything that was going through my head was just what

843
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: was happening in the in the next room about time

844
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: and he was waiting to go on and how behind

845
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 1: we were or you know that kind of stuff. You

846
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: are now working on another show called Motherland, right, and

847
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,839
Speaker 1: and can you tell us briefly about that? Yeah, well,

848
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: Motherland is UM it's it's about well, it's about mothers essentially,

849
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: but there there's a there's a father in there as well,

850
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: but it's a it's kind of about that idea that

851
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: it's like being with a bunch of people and the

852
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: only reason why you're with them is because you know

853
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 1: you have something in common and that thing that you

854
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 1: have in common is that you all happen to give

855
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: birth UM around at the same time. Yeah, I mean

856
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 1: it's about kids, obviously, but like Catastrophe, it's much more

857
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: about how those parents are just coping and it's about

858
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 1: I guess kind of friendships that you build. It's it's

859
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: about the kind of world that you create to help

860
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: you cope and help you get through the day. So, UM,

861
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: how's it going. Yeah, I mean, we we are first season.

862
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 1: UM came out over here UM at the end of

863
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: last year. So and it's just UM started on Sundance

864
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: in the US, and yeah, yeah, I was interested to

865
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: know what a US audience would make of it, because

866
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:27,959
Speaker 1: really they are you know, they they're They're not They're

867
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:33,919
Speaker 1: not sunny characters. You know, they've got they are super flawed, tricky,

868
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: difficult at times. Um, people sound like my kind of women. Yeah, well,

869
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: I hope so, I mean, I hope so that It's

870
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: just that there is not like with Catastrope, there's kind

871
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 1: of a sweet kind of underbelly to it, um, But

872
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: with Motherland, there is no such underbelly. We know you

873
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 1: have to leave, But I just wanted to ask you

874
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: a couple of quick questions about current affairs. I was

875
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: curious that someone raised in Ireland what your reaction was

876
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 1: to the vote that overturned and the biana An abortion.

877
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: There were you surprised? I was surprised at the landslide

878
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: nature of it. I think that was the thing that

879
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: blew everyone's mind. I mean, we all thought it was

880
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: going to be such a close call. And it's thanks

881
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: to the sort of ground movement of the women of

882
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,879
Speaker 1: that country because really, um, the Yes campaign, they just

883
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 1: went out and they knocked on doors and they it

884
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 1: was such a. It was such a positive, lovely campaign

885
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 1: that they ran. They put the groundwork in and and

886
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: I guess people listened, and I think everyone's feeling was

887
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 1: so just so proud of the country and just so

888
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,759
Speaker 1: proud of the country that it has become. And and

889
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, women were finally listened to

890
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 1: and those stories were heard, and like some of these

891
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 1: women have just been fighting for that for for years.

892
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 1: And I mean it was a difficult time because there

893
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 1: was a lot of really desperate, sad, sad stories coming

894
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: out of it. So it was emotional, you know, it

895
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 1: was very emotional campaign. But um, you know, I mean

896
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 1: the absolute right decision was made and I think it's

897
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,240
Speaker 1: just gonna impact on the country in such a positive,

898
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: beautiful way. Speaking of movements, I'm curious if Me Too

899
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: has kind of reverberated here in the UK. It's something

900
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 1: that has really captured the imagination of so many people

901
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: in the States. And are you all experiencing a similar

902
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 1: movement or is it not caught fire here as it

903
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 1: has in the United States. I mean, it has absolutely

904
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: had an impact here and in that people are talking

905
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 1: about the issue of inequality, um and and sexism within

906
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 1: the industry, but I mean a lot of it is

907
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: kind of focusing on For example, there's of fifty fifty

908
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: campaign about actresses having you know, equal screen time. There's

909
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: an absolutely terrible statistic that I unfortunately can't give you

910
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: of how much time females spent on screen compared to

911
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 1: the genus. Gina Davis Institute did a whole big study

912
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: on this. I mean it's not only speaking, but appearing

913
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,720
Speaker 1: and and of course from behind uses, from kids shows

914
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: kind of right the way through. They're just horribly underrepresented.

915
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 1: So that that's quite a big movement here. And obviously

916
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: you know, pay equality because um, you know, recently people

917
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 1: had to be very transparent about what people were meaning it, right.

918
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,399
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought it was so interesting to learn

919
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 1: that the government insisted that across industries, whether it's supermarket

920
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 1: chains or the BBC, you had to make public your salaries. Yeah,

921
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:54,800
Speaker 1: were a lot of people and it was shocking. Yes,

922
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of very um, angry women out there,

923
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: and it's and it's great, and I mean the fact

924
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: that that it is so visible here it feels like

925
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: it's having a huge impact on you know, the industry,

926
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 1: TV industry and film, but also commercials exactly the same.

927
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 1: There's lots and lots of positive movement forward to sort

928
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: of change the situation. In your view, it's really exciting.

929
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: It's really exciting, and it's not bullshit either. It's not

930
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: just about I mean not that pinning on a badge

931
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: is bullshit. It's not because it's really important to be

932
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,399
Speaker 1: visible and it's important for your role models to get

933
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 1: out there and say that you know, they're backing this

934
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: and they're behind it. But it's it's not just talk.

935
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: It really feels like there's something changing. And you know,

936
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 1: as a woman working in this industry and as someone

937
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 1: who runs a company with another woman, you really are

938
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: able to get in and sort of grassroots kind of

939
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: change it. But you have to be prepared to put

940
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 1: the work in, you know, you you really have to

941
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 1: be bared to put your money where your mouth is

942
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 1: and and and then let up BEI there exactly. You can't.

943
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 1: It's not it's not like we've done our bit, you know. Um,

944
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:09,720
Speaker 1: it's it really is a constant kind of battle. And

945
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 1: so yeah, I hope it continues. I hope we continue

946
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,479
Speaker 1: being a pain in people's arses for a long time.

947
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: Because that's the only way it's gonna you know, effectively

948
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: make a big difference. So finally, finally, um, I want

949
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 1: to ask you about Brexit because it was a subject

950
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 1: of a very funny joke in one of your episodes.

951
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 1: It's a bit more of it in the new season. Yeah,

952
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 1: we've got to we've gotten a little bit more political

953
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,760
Speaker 1: this season. I mean, you know here and there, because

954
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 1: it's not that's not the shows about, but it impacts

955
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 1: everyone's great to well. I don't want to give anything away,

956
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: but it is a very very funny joke. But um,

957
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: I feel like Brexit and Trump are part of the

958
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: same phenomenon of rising populism and being against the establishment,

959
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 1: against the experts. Would you agree with that? Yeah, I

960
00:54:56,280 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: mean it's fear, isn't it. It's like fear of of changed,

961
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 1: fear of the other though as well, you know, like

962
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 1: who's massive massive role. I mean, there was a it

963
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: was a huge I mean there was a huge fear

964
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 1: mongering campaign that you know, if you didn't vote for

965
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: this then basically we're going to be inundated with immigrants

966
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:20,919
Speaker 1: and they were going to come and take a job

967
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 1: and sort of burn your villages to the ground. And yeah,

968
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,439
Speaker 1: I mean I think the same vote was held now,

969
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 1: I think it would have a completely different impact anyway,

970
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 1: because it's such a mess. It's such a mess. Well,

971
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: on that note, that is a terrible nough but I

972
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 1: mean that's what you know, that's our world. It's such

973
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 1: a story of our times. Well, we're going to let

974
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 1: you get home to your daughter's and your husband because

975
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: I don't want there to be held to pay. And

976
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 1: why is she mad at you? Just out of curiosity

977
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 1: because she's got she's got a chemistry test tomorrow and

978
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 1: she hates chemistry. Um, I think if I was there,

979
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 1: it mum be easier for telling for her to tell

980
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 1: me to my face so much she hates chemistry. Well

981
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 1: that's something to look forward to. Anyway. It's such a

982
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 1: it's such a treat to meet you and to talk

983
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 1: to you. Thank you so much for doing this because

984
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: I know it was a long day, and uh, we

985
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 1: really really appreciate it, and we're both big admirers of

986
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 1: yours and wish you continued success and everything you do.

987
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 1: I appreciate you, Brian. I thought Sharon was really nice

988
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 1: and really fun to listen to, and I just love

989
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 1: her accent. What can I say? She had me at

990
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 1: Hello or cheerio. But I really actually related to her

991
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:49,279
Speaker 1: feeling guilty about her daughter because it took me back

992
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,240
Speaker 1: to the days of sitting on the sofa and helping

993
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 1: carry study for a test and getting all anxious, and

994
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,839
Speaker 1: at fourteen, I'm sure her daughter is a little stressed out.

995
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: And I hate chemistry too. Well, my daughter loves chemistry.

996
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:06,879
Speaker 1: You know, she's nineteen months. She's totally she's brilliant. She's

997
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:10,400
Speaker 1: already memorized the periodic table. Of course, you mean yours haven't.

998
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 1: But you enjoy Sharon, didn't you. I had a great time.

999
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 1: And one thing that inspired me was that, you know,

1000
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: she didn't have her first big hit until she was

1001
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: thirty six years old. And it reminded me of the

1002
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 1: old quote that it took her ten years to become

1003
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: an overnight sensation. And she's worked really hard and done

1004
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 1: a million things and in the end it all worked

1005
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: out for her. And so I think that's a good message,

1006
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: a hopeful one for everyone listening. I think she's also

1007
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: just very insightful about the human condition, you know, and

1008
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:40,479
Speaker 1: and really fascinated by what makes people tick and how

1009
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 1: they react and behave in all kinds of situations, and

1010
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: I think because of that, her work is really relatable.

1011
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I have a very similar sense

1012
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: of humor. I'm just not that funny. You're really bleak,

1013
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: dark person. That's how every perceives it is the real

1014
00:57:55,280 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 1: Katie and the sunshine is actually super dark. So we

1015
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 1: want to thank the BBC again for bringing us across

1016
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: the Pond, and Talie It's Silk Sound for recording tonight's episode. Yes,

1017
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 1: is very late at this point. Our usual tip of

1018
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: the hat to our stitcher squad, Gianna Palmer, Nora Richie,

1019
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: and Jared O'Connell. And thank you to Katie's enormous team

1020
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 1: over at Katie Current Media. It's enormous. They pumish yours,

1021
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 1: you know, they brush your hair, they pumise your feet

1022
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: and it's incredible. They also developed some media that demiz

1023
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 1: emibina at Alison Bresnick. You three are fantastic. Katie and

1024
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 1: I are the executive producers of the show. Mark Phillips

1025
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 1: wrote our theme music and hey, if you haven't already,

1026
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 1: please leave us a rating on Apple Podcasts and subscribe

1027
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 1: to our show wherever you listen. It really helps others

1028
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 1: to find it. Well, that's all, folks, and we'll talk

1029
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 1: to you next week. But that's all, folks. Thanks for listening.

1030
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 1: Lata