1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switch It 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: on the BENF podcast. Today we talk about methane, the 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: other greenhouse gas that maybe doesn't get as much attention 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: as CEO two does, but certainly did this last week 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: in Glasgow. Let's start with a few facts about methane. Well, 6 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: first of all, it has a shorter half life than 7 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: carbon dioxide, meaning that it's potency drops precipitously after about 8 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: ten years as compared to the three hundred plus years 9 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: for carbon dioxide. It also is an eighty times more 10 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: potent greenhouse gas. So that is why the Global Methane Pledge, 11 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: which was signed by over one hundred countries at cop 12 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: is really so significant. This pledge is looking to cut 13 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: methane emissions by thirty percent by the year. So today 14 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: I speak with Antoine Wagner Jones, who covers Amia energy 15 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: transitions at BENF, and Na cool Nair, who is in 16 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: America's gas analyst, and they're going to speak about where 17 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: the emissions come from, which countries are leading the charge 18 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: on the plug edge, and how one goes about detecting 19 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: methane emissions. To begin with, they wrote a piece recently 20 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: titled Global d mechanization poised to give us l G 21 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: an edge, and there's a good amount of coverage on 22 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: the pledge on the COP twenty six Bloomberg blog. As 23 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: a reminder, BIENNAP does not provide investment of strategy advice. 24 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: And we've got a complete disclaimer at the end of 25 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: the show. But now let's speak with Antoine and that 26 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: cool Antoine and Nicole, let's talk about this as a 27 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: greenhouse gas and why it is significant because I think 28 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: that there has been historically so much conversation around carbon emissions, 29 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: and very rightfully, but where is methane's role in the 30 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: greenhouse gas world? So methane carbon working pretty different ways. 31 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: I think one of the ways of looking at it 32 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: is carbon sticks around in the atmosphere for a very 33 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: long time. Methane is much also lived. It has a 34 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: very short half life, but within that amount of time 35 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: that it remains in the atmosphere, traps more than if 36 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 1: we're looking over two decades from emission, it traps more 37 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: than eighty times the heat that the same amount of 38 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: carbon dark side would. So let's call this out. How 39 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: long is a very long time? How long does c 40 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: O two stay in the atmosphere hundreds and hundreds of years. 41 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: And how long does meet things stay in the atmosphere, Well, 42 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:26,679 Speaker 1: it says it's half life is a lot shorter, and 43 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: a lot of the effects dissipates dramatically after the first 44 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: decade or so. Okay, so we're talking about roughly ten 45 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: years if we're thinking about the worst impacts, which is 46 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: particularly relevant right now as there are both short term 47 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: and long term emission schools that countries are actively creating 48 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: as we sit here recording during cop week. But back 49 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: to the significance of me things, what is the scale 50 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 1: of the problem in terms of how much is being 51 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: admitted since you're just noting that it's eighty times eight 52 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: times and greenhouse gas A good, great question. I think 53 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: one of the things that's come out recently there's the 54 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 1: Governmental Pound Climate Change to Report, the first of three 55 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: this year that have been released, which basically sets out 56 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: that about a quarter of all heat that's been trapped 57 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: in the atmosphere since the pre industrial age is down 58 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: to me thing and that makes it very important to tackle. 59 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: And also levels of meeting and risen a lot more 60 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: over the last two centuries than levels of CO two 61 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: very much view it as sort of carbon dioxide naughty 62 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: little brother, if you will, And I think a lot 63 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: of focus at least in the last decade or so 64 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: has been on the carbon dioxide and methane has been 65 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: sort of been able to get away with nefariuff activities, 66 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: if you will. In the meantime, in which industries is 67 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: this coming from? I think technically the largest source of 68 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: ME thing globally is the agricultural sector, but the one 69 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: that's been under the most focus, and you know what 70 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: we want to speak about today is oil and gas. 71 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: So I've definitely heard of ME thing from cows and 72 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: then a link to beef, and yes, that is a 73 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: whole another conversation action regarding where it comes from also 74 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: other parts of the agriculture sector as well. Correct, Yeah, 75 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: exactly a cow's landfills. I guess landfills aren't really agriculture, 76 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: but there are abroadly other sources other than oil and gas. 77 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: Oil and gas gets a lot of the heat though. Okay, 78 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: so oil and gas. The space that we at BNEF 79 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: spend a good amount of time thinking about as we 80 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: think about the energy transition and some of the opportunities 81 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: that this industry has in terms to pivot their business 82 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: and look at a potentially more sustainable future. Why are 83 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: they at the center of the discussion around me thing? 84 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: From my opinion, I think is really down to the 85 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: fact that there has been the sort of clamp down 86 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: from a climate perspective on oil and gas companies in 87 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: the sector as a whole, and this mostly came from 88 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: a common ox side perspective. But then to just sort 89 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: of increase the scope and capture me thing within that 90 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: clampdown I think was a fair and fairly easy at 91 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: tension to to make and to be fair, when we 92 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: talk about this in front of all and gas companies, 93 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: they talked about what about the agriculture sector? So I 94 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: think that this is a good opportunity for oil and 95 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: gas to sort of get ahead of itself and sort 96 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: of stepped benchmark, if you will. And it works very 97 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: differently if we sort of compare and gas to waste 98 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: and agriculture and natural sources of meeting I mean in 99 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: terms of reducing them tackling those emissions, it's a lot 100 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: more achievable at a low cost. The i as put 101 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: out estimates for the percentage of oil and gas emissions 102 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: that can be reduced at a net profit about it says, 103 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: and then at low cost for many others because you 104 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: can actually if you find an off taker market the 105 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: gas that mean thing that you're capturing, which is effectively 106 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: natural gas, and the technologies for actually making those reductions 107 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 1: are broadly available today. So again there was a UN 108 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: report that stated about forty of those oil and gas 109 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: emissions can be basically cut out using technologies that are 110 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: available today. It's not rocket science. It's sort of upgrading pipelines, 111 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: um like valves and pipelines, compressor stations. It's simple stuff. Yeah, 112 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: plugging empty wells pretty easy to do. So this is 113 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: essentially leakage. This isn't causes an industrial bride product of 114 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: creating things. This is waste. It's funny you say that 115 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: data because I would actually describe it as sort of 116 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: maybe not waste, but lost useful product because essentially natural 117 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 1: gas is predominantly meeting and so if you can capture it, 118 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: you can sell it and gain perhaps additional revenue that 119 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: you're effectively just getting or letting loose into the atmosphere. 120 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: In terms of leakage, I'd say most of it is 121 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: accidental fugitive if you will, But a lot of times 122 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: it is intentionally vented just because the infrastructure isn't set 123 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 1: in place to capture it. And yes, so they're like 124 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: losing value by doing it. So one would assume that 125 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: incentives are aligned for the oil and gas industry to 126 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: not want to lose this potentially sellable product. Why is 127 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: is an important role for governments to play in trying 128 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: to restrict or enforce the oil and gas industry to 129 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: actually handle some of this leakage. Yes, I think a 130 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: lot of the leakage and the reason behind it is 131 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: that companies and operators don't actually know it's being released. 132 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: It's an invisible gas. It seeps out of the upstream sector, 133 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: maybe through a loose valve or compressor, and those emissions 134 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: are broadly unknown to the operator and they don't want 135 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: to go and to take the effort to sort of 136 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: track that down and figure out how to reduce it. 137 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: So really, I think, at least from a government perspective, 138 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: it's more about putting pressure on the company's to actually 139 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: start doing it, because it is definitely possible to do yeah, 140 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: and it's that freshest built up for a number of reasons, 141 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: and one part is just that we're better able to 142 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: sort of monitor and verify large emission events using satellites. 143 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: So satellite technology has progressed very rapidly over the last 144 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: few decades, and we're now at a stage where using 145 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: for example, the Copernica's satellite program that's run by the 146 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: European Space Agency has been used by data providers to 147 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: pick up sort of large emission events above five tons 148 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: per hour, for example, and that gives you an idea 149 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: of what's going on in places where geographically the conditions 150 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: are aligned for you to be able to get good 151 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: satellite data. And that recognition, along with efforts by n 152 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,119 Speaker 1: g O S and by other organizations and by oil 153 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: and gas producers too, So basically measure emissions using other 154 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 1: techniques closer to the ground, has given us a much 155 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,079 Speaker 1: more granular picture of emissions then we've had in the past. 156 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: And that's also being really at the heart of our 157 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: recognition of of me things being a problem and also 158 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: the scale of the challenge involved in technic So there's 159 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: technical monitoring that then leads us to a place where 160 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: we can actually fix the problem, and then there's this 161 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: shorter time horizon around a decade where we can actually 162 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: see real tangible results in their being brought down. So 163 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:02,719 Speaker 1: this seems like this is an area where we can 164 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: make some pretty dramatic progress when it comes to climate goals. 165 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: Was that fair summary to say that that's why you 166 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: think that this may have come up from a policy 167 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: standpoint at least in the CUP conversations which are taking place. Yeah, 168 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,719 Speaker 1: I think that's fair. Cup. The number of issues that 169 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: are on the table that are getting a lot of attention, 170 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: that means that in terms of media attention, it's going 171 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 1: to be issues like methane, which are more like side 172 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: issues usually where we'll probably be seated seeing tangible progress. 173 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: That's something to sort of follow carefully. Over the last 174 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: few weeks, we've seen the US and the European Commission 175 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: come together launched the Global Methane Pledge, trying to get 176 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: countries to agree to cut methane emissions, and the diplomacy 177 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: around that is going to be interesting to follow. We've 178 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: already seen the European Commissions say that, well, we've seen 179 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: spokespeople say that eight countries have signed the pledge. Will 180 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: be seeing more details over the course of this week. 181 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: So who are the countries that are leading the charge, 182 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: one might say, on some of the enforcement around the 183 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: Paris Agreement targets on meeting. So I'm based in the US, 184 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: and I think effectively, over the past year or so, 185 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: maybe a bit longer, the US has gone a full 186 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: one e D and gone from what you could view 187 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: as a bit of a lagguard to perhaps even so 188 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: far as if I may go so far as to say, 189 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: a bit of a leader on the topic. Where a 190 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 1: year ago under the previous administration, we were revoking rules 191 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: that have helped curb emissions along pipelines to now, you know, 192 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: signing that Global Meeting pledge with the EU to really 193 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: be a leader, a focal point, a um sort of 194 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: someone the industry can look up to in terms of 195 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: taking proactive action to reduce emissions. So there's some alignment 196 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: here between the Eropean Union in the United States and 197 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: trying to achieve the targets around meeting. What is the 198 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: scale of the problem in these two parts of the world, 199 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: and how do their emission really relate in terms of 200 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: size and scope with other parts of the world. That's um, Yeah, 201 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: it's a good question, and that the answer is that 202 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: we don't know exactly. So the IA has come out 203 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: with estimates for the largest source of emissions from the 204 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: oil and gas sector across different geographies. Those involved assumptions. 205 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: Those also involved using imperfect data. Although it's a very 206 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 1: thorough assessment. We're still relying on satellites, for example, to 207 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,599 Speaker 1: give us an idea of what's going on in Russia. 208 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: And that's tricky because satellites are good at picking up 209 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: emissions when things are dry, when they're well lit, So 210 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: the Permian Basin in Texas, for example, in the US 211 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: is a perfect example of that. But they're much worse 212 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: at doing it for places that are offshore, like production 213 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: off the coast of Qatar, when they're equatorial so in 214 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: Nigeria for example, or when they're in northern latitudes. So 215 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: Russia is one of those countries. And that's because of 216 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: the reflectivity of the surface of water. That makes things 217 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: tricky in terms of getting a very good view on 218 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 1: emissions around producing areas. That doesn't mean we can't track 219 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: what's going on to some extent, but it does mean 220 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: that it's difficult. Yeah, I don't know if you If 221 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: you have that information, I'd love to love to fear 222 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: I basically need to have satellite business because satellites of 223 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: the future here, Yeah, exactly, Okay, So they're definitely challenges 224 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: around monitoring and pinpointing where this is all coming from, 225 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: maybe the US specifically, who's leading the charge on this 226 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: in some respects, and what are some of the other 227 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: regions that we assume do have fairly high meeting emissions. Again, 228 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: the uncertainties here are large, but you could see the 229 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: top three countries as being Russia, Tekmenistan, and the US. 230 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: But then when you're looking at the intensity of production, 231 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: production in Tekmenistan volume wise is much lower then that 232 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: of than what's being produced in the United States, for example, 233 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: So that's a particular problem. They are low incentives there 234 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: in terms of tackling the problem. There's a low level 235 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: of transparency in the local fossil fuel sector and that's 236 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: been a big issue. And it also means that when 237 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: we're looking at the global Methan pledge, a lot of 238 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: the impetus then sort of lies with importing countries, so 239 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: places like the EU, but also like East Asia, like China, 240 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: Japan and South Korea. China imports a lot of gas 241 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 1: from Turkmenistan, so if it joined the Global Meeting Pledge, 242 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: which doesn't look like it's the case now, but who 243 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: knows what could happen over the next few days that 244 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: could put pressure on producers there to clean up their act. 245 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: Just to add anecdotally, I was reading an article that 246 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: came out on Bloomberg News actually the other day that 247 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: talked about Turkmenistan's methane hell of fire crater, which was 248 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: a crater that formed because it had a build up 249 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: of meeting that eventually exploded. And then to solve the problem, 250 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,199 Speaker 1: someone lit it on fire and it has just been burning. 251 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: It has been sort of effectively on fire since one 252 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: which is over a decade ago at least. Explain this 253 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: to me. How setting it on fire solving the problem? 254 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: You know, I I don't know. I don't think they know. 255 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: But it makes for, if nothing else, a good visual 256 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: attraction if you ever find yourself in Turkmenistan. Wow. And 257 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: this is going to burn for some time because once 258 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: it gets started. There are similar things that happen in 259 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: coal basins in the US as well. It's a it's 260 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: a problem, and it's with methane emissions that there's something 261 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: similar as well. When you flare methane, you can burn 262 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: it and it converts it to carbon dioxide. But the 263 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: issues that process is rarely we'll not always entirely efficient, 264 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: and if you have older equipment, then that can mean 265 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: that your efficiency of the flaring process means only about 266 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: the methane of the natural gas is converted to carbon dioxide, 267 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: so you're still leading to it, still seeing large methane 268 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: leakage as a result of those practices. Now, for a 269 00:14:54,400 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: very short break, stay with us, So can you explain 270 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: what issues are currently being discussed in the United States 271 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: as a part of some of their domestic bills that 272 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: are making their way through the House and the Senate. 273 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: I think the biggest and the brightest star in all 274 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: of this is them talking about a me saying tax 275 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: effectively and it's in the range of about nine hundred 276 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: to a thousand, five hundred dollars per metric ton. And 277 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: we're actually doing some sort of back of the envelope 278 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: analysis on this earlier today, and we found that if 279 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: you take sort of the methane rates assumed or published 280 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: through the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency four leakage along 281 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: production sites, then you're talking about and this tax goes 282 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: into effect, you're talking about a gas producer having sort 283 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: of liability in the millions. But and this is where 284 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: it gets really interesting. If you look at it from 285 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: a sabllite data perspective and talk about, okay, what are 286 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: the actual emissions, assuming that there's some under reporting going on, 287 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: that number gets into the billions. So depending on the 288 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: actual policy, the price that it comes out at, the 289 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: tax that is um and then how they enforce it, 290 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: this could be really game changing for the for the 291 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: U S gas industry. That's exactly right, and there's also 292 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: something to be said for the pressure that already exists 293 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: on US producers, and what we've seen is that again, 294 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: as we've mentioned, accidents of geography mean that US producers 295 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: are particularly exposed to satellites, more so than is the 296 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: case for other producing regions. Also, there's practice for extraction 297 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: in place, like the permanent involved fracking. There's been a 298 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: lot of concerns around the environmental footprint that that involves, 299 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: and that's led to pushback from certain quarters, including governments 300 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: in the so France is one example where the French 301 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: government basically put pressure on energy um and local utility 302 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: to cancel an import detailed deal from next Era the 303 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: US user based on fears around frackings of methane footprints. 304 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: And we've also seen similar moves be made in in Ireland, 305 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: where there's been popular pushback against energ projects. We're also 306 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: seeing the EU try and regularize things, and we're awaiting 307 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: over the course of this year a gas decarbonization package, 308 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: part of which will be basically enacting proposals that were 309 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: made last year around setting up a framework that would 310 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 1: allow you to look at the methane intensity of different 311 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: sources of natural gas, which could then be tied to 312 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: different types of policy for actually having a bit more 313 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: of a handle on the associate or on the on 314 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: the emissions associated with supply chains and imports into the 315 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: European Union. There's been some discussion as of late, and 316 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: actually this came up as a topic of an entire 317 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: panel at the recent b an F summit in London, 318 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: which took place at the end of October, was around 319 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: engagement versus davis for some of these companies when they're 320 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: thinking about some of their highest emitting parts of their business. 321 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: So for the oil and gas industry, they're methane assets. 322 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: There has been in some circumstances companies that have actually 323 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: sold off these assets to get them off their balance 324 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: sheets so that they appear to be cleaner and greener 325 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 1: for investors. Now, would the bills that are currently being 326 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: discussed in the US, if we're just going to narrow 327 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: it down to that region, would it address those producers 328 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: that are smaller that maybe seemed to be at this 329 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 1: point in time somewhat slipping under the radar. Yeah. Absolutely. 330 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: I think from any perspective, if I was a big 331 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: integrated oil and gas company looking to clean up my 332 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: balance sheet, if you will, by selling off the dirtier assets, 333 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 1: if there's now a tax liability on some of these assets, 334 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: it would just make it much harder to sell. As 335 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 1: a private equity backed firm who's on the smaller side, 336 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: I would be left by you to come in and 337 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: purchase that. As you know, it's just not as profitable 338 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 1: as if I was able to pump out oil and 339 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: gas with no with no repercussion for my emissions. This 340 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: is an area that you know, even we at b 341 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: any of haven't discussed a ton up until I would 342 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: say the last year, And as that's happening, what is 343 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: the most frequently asked questions that you're asked regarding meeting. 344 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,199 Speaker 1: For me, it's a it's a couple of things. The 345 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: first is, if I'm a producer interested in actually reducing emissions, 346 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: how do I go about doing it? You know, what 347 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 1: are what are the best practices? What is typically or 348 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: at least the best answer, in my opinion is the 349 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: very first step is to actually figure out what is 350 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: going on within your asset base, So to go in 351 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: and actually measure real time continuous emissions monitoring for your 352 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: entire asset base, to know which valves are faulty, which 353 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: compresses a faulty, where it's coming from. If you've plugged 354 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: and abandoned a well, is that well properly plugged? Or 355 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: is methane seeping out of the ground. To truly tackle 356 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: the problem, you need to understand what the the big 357 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: issues are. And then the second question, and I'll let 358 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: Antonine come in after this. Then the second question is 359 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: more around the market for it. I think meat introduction 360 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:14,400 Speaker 1: has at least up until now, been portrayed as being 361 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 1: sort of forced onto the industry more stick than carrot, 362 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: if you will. But I think there's a real opportunity here, 363 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: and that is the carrot where if you do reduce 364 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: your emissions, you effectively have a new product, responsibly sourced 365 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: to gas product if you will, then you can use 366 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: to differentiate yourself and sell into a premium market. So 367 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: just questions around when that market might develop, what that 368 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 1: premium might look like. And you know this is all 369 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: in its nation stages, So I think if you're making 370 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: that bet, you should make it now. Uh, and the 371 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: market will develop. I can't speak to what the prices 372 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: might look like though, And and it's a massive undertaking 373 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: to set up the framework for data collection um to 374 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: actually set up benchmarks that are internationally accepted. In my opinion, 375 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 1: we kind of had a pivotal moment where these kind 376 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: of benchmarks, this kind of standard setting can make a 377 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 1: real big difference in the energy transition, and we're seeing 378 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: that because of trade taking an increasingly important role. So 379 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: there's all kinds of initiatives around understanding what we're starting 380 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: to talk about the international trade of hydrogen and then 381 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: how different sources of hydrogen might compare in their carbon intensity. 382 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: We're talking about setting up a carbon border adjustment mechanism 383 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: in the EU that requires us to have a handle 384 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 1: on the carbon that's embedded in things like steel and 385 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: cement and aluminium, and methane is just one more example. 386 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: And again the EU set up a special observatory to 387 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: basically track to use satellite data and other sources to 388 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: track the emissions associated with different sources, so that you 389 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,439 Speaker 1: can basically have a sort of labeling scheme for a 390 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: cargo of natural gas that gives you an idea of 391 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: how methane intense it was across its value chain. How 392 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: that set is going to be a matter for a 393 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: lot of diplomacy. There's going to be a lot of 394 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: a big lift in terms of making sure the data 395 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: is up to scratch, and it's not going to be simple, 396 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,239 Speaker 1: but moving into areas like this where you can have 397 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: a real impact, it is a lot low hanging fruit 398 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: in terms of the investments required to actually tackle methane 399 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 1: and the fact a lot of the technologies are already available, 400 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: But it's also tough in terms of setting up internationally 401 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: agreed structures through which to see through this transition. Would 402 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: you say that sentiment regarding producers is generally positive, so 403 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: this could be something that both governments and oil and 404 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: gas companies are an agreement on broadly speaking, I think 405 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: it will take some convincing because you're effectively asking the 406 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: industry to change their current workflow. They're the way they 407 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: go about things that has been maybe in traditional ingrained 408 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: in them for a number of years. But do I 409 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,360 Speaker 1: feel benefits for both the government, the climate and the 410 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: oil and gas company. Yes, absolutely, I think it can 411 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: potentially be a win for all of them, and in 412 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: a way, maybe even prolonged natural gas as life as 413 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: a fuel is part of this energy transition, and in 414 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: addition to that, even work as sort of a stop 415 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: gap solution for climate ambitions before these net sero targets 416 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 1: really come in and start to squeeze out molecule based 417 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: fuels apart from hydrogen, of course, So it's going to 418 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: take convincing producers that this isn't their economic self interest. 419 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: In a lot of cases, conditions are aligned for that 420 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: to be an argument you can make very convincingly in 421 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 1: the corporate space outside of the policy space. Where are 422 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: their signs of life in terms of focus and progress 423 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: on me things. So there is a lot of inaction 424 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,719 Speaker 1: and there is a lot of criticism. There are some 425 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: bright spots and one of them is the Oil and 426 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: Gas Methane Pledge, which is a pledge to limit the 427 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: methane intensity of or in gas production below a certain threshold. 428 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: And and that's something that's been signed up to form 429 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: by about sixty plus producers. And is this is this 430 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: a separate pledge that is from the one that you're discussing, 431 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: So pledges, there's a there's a few different pledges and 432 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: a few different avenues, so one for private industry and 433 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: then one for policy makers and governments. Right. But it's 434 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: what's interesting is that this and then the methodology that 435 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: they employ in the reporting practices that they've already been implementing, 436 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: are being taken up by the European Commission, for example, 437 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,479 Speaker 1: which wants to make it the basis for a methane 438 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: observatory that it's setting up. This is all incremental, and 439 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: we've seen progress start from the private sector. We've seen 440 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: it build up. What's promising is that those gains are 441 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: then contributing directly to the creation and of rules and 442 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: of policy that could have a very binding effect. Yeah, 443 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: even on the US side, there are several producers in 444 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 1: the double digits that have put out mandates for them 445 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: to be transparent and eventually report of the media emissions. 446 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 1: Along there are a by Jane, and beyond that there 447 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: are a bunch of companies that are doing exactly what 448 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,719 Speaker 1: we discussed earlier and starting a satellite business, sending up 449 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: satellites to effectually verify if if the claims it will 450 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: be made are true. And so I think on the 451 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: data front, there's a lot of progress coming up is 452 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: this significant strides are about to be made and that 453 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: really creates, as I saying earlier, the window of opportunity 454 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: now before that data starts coming in for producers to 455 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: get ahead of the game or even operators pipeline operators 456 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: to to get ahead of the game and start really 457 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: making a difference. Now, how does a pledge like this 458 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: get started In terms of specific genesis, I don't have 459 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: all the details, but it's something that starts not just 460 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 1: with producers themselves, but also with organizations like the Environmental 461 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: Defense Fund, which is being pretty instrumental to gathering industry 462 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: together and trying to work out how to to shepherd 463 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: them into basically putting their names behind something like the 464 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 1: orn Gas Mething pledge line mentioned before. It is something 465 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: that's volume treat These are commitments from producers and a 466 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: sign of progress, but at the same time they're also 467 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: the signals that there's real interest from organizations to push 468 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: this process forwards, whether it's pressure from NGOs, whether it's 469 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: efforts to link up industry, like what was happening with 470 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: the Environmental Defense Fund. Yeah, I think on this front, 471 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 1: most of it was actually pressure through NGOs, the Environmental 472 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 1: Defense Fund being a great example. UM I remember reading 473 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: articles of journalists actually going out into the Permian with 474 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 1: handheld infrared cameras and imaging individual plants or or wells 475 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: too to see to photograph these meeta in emissions coming 476 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: out of the ground. And I actually just last week 477 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: I was at a conference where one of the people 478 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: who use data continuation missions monitoring data to help producers 479 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: figure out their meeting and emissions, who showing me photos 480 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 1: of how did the same equipment can be used to 481 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: track like cow farts at a nearby agricultural facility, or 482 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: even like human farts. See, there was this one image 483 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: of a of a person getting out of a pickup 484 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: truck and as he opened the door, you could just 485 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: see a plume movi me thing coming out that was 486 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: called on the camera. So the technology made a lot 487 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: of advances and like that's a great example of it. 488 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 1: I love it is that exact, but there's just a 489 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: there's a privacy element here that I don't think I'm 490 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: going to be willing to go from. Yeah, none of 491 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,959 Speaker 1: the satellite platforms we've had access to have given us 492 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 1: that level of granularity. It is probably a good thing, 493 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: but we know that the technology is They're half fascinating. 494 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: Antoine and Nicole, thank you very much for sharing your 495 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: research on what you've learned about methane monitoring and pledges, 496 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: and we look forward to seeing what progress is made 497 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: in the coming weeks and holy months on this potential 498 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: problem and error and a real opportunity for us to 499 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: reduce emissions in the near term. Thanks Dana, Yeah, thanks 500 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:09,719 Speaker 1: for having If they know, Today's episode of Switched On 501 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: was edited by Rex Warner of gray Stoke Media. 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