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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're talking about the Definitive Travel Rewards episode

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Speaker 1: with Chris Hutchins.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Joel, this is going to be an episode that'll

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Speaker 2: be fully dedicated to what the kids call travel hacking.

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Speaker 2: And that's actually just one of the topics that Chris

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Speaker 2: Hutchins discusses on his podcast All the Hacks, which I

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Speaker 2: will say, it's a great name for a podcast, by

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Speaker 2: the way, among us personally, I'm a little jealous. And

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Speaker 2: it's also really accurate as well, because Chris he covers

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Speaker 2: a range of topics on his show, not just travel,

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Speaker 2: but like how to be more confident, ways to strengthen relationships.

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Speaker 2: I saw recent or not too long ago, he had

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Speaker 2: a conversation with Brian Johnson about living longer. Joe, we

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Speaker 2: actually we had a discussion about Brian Jonson. Yeah, on

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Speaker 2: the podcast there's a lot of money doing that a

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Speaker 2: while ago. But prior to the podcast, Chris was a

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Speaker 2: co founder of Milk, which was acquired by Google. Two

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Speaker 2: percenters killing Chris, He's the whole type of guy. But

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Speaker 2: then he was the founder and CEO of Grove, which

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Speaker 2: was subsequently acquired by Wealth Front. He is quite the

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Speaker 2: renaissance man, and we're excited to have him joining us

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Speaker 2: today to talk about travel rewards. And this is a

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Speaker 2: special episode because Chris is here in person with us,

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Speaker 2: hanging on in our little little clubhouse. So Chris, thank

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Speaker 2: you for joining us today on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Due thanks for having me. I like it. You call

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Speaker 1: him a renaissance man. He's like Leonardo da Vinci and

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Speaker 1: DiCaprio all rolled into one. I'd say, is that true?

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Speaker 1: Chris the old? Maybe the old? I'd like to let

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Speaker 1: himself all right. First question we ask everyone who comes

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Speaker 1: on the show is what do you like to Sporgehn

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Speaker 1: Matt and I sporge on craft beer? Obviously everyone knows that.

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Speaker 1: What's that for you? Even while you're still doing smart

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Speaker 1: stuff with your money?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I thought about this and I was like, well,

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Speaker 3: you guys, you guys got to graduate outside of just beer.

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Speaker 1: So I want to hear some more things. But we've

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Speaker 1: got other things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but this isn't about us, know about I see

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Speaker 2: what you're trying to do.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, I have an answer.

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Speaker 2: You're like slide into the podcast host. See, no, no, you

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Speaker 2: are the guests today, Sir.

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Speaker 3: I think recently I've started not batting an eye at

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Speaker 3: spending money on information.

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Speaker 1: So okay, So it's likely Pedia Britannica. Okay.

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Speaker 3: But like, if I think something will, like whether it's

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Speaker 3: a book, whether it's a subscription to someone's premium content

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Speaker 3: site at substack, if there's something that I think I

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Speaker 3: could learn from. I used to think, Gosh, is this

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Speaker 3: really worth it? Couldn't I go find this information online free?

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Speaker 3: Maybe it comes back to spending money to save time,

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Speaker 3: but it's just like, I'll just pay the twenty dollars,

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Speaker 3: I'll pay the fifty dollars whatever the cost is if

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Speaker 3: I think it will make me smarter, satiate my curiosity

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Speaker 3: or something. I try not to think about it.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that amazing how we went from everything needs to

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Speaker 1: be free and that supported and now think about what's

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Speaker 1: happened with sub second, all that we pay Matt for

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Speaker 1: a couple of different subs writers because it's such good content,

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Speaker 1: such good information, And you think eighty bucks a year

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Speaker 1: for this one person's writing. That's crazy, that's crazy talk.

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Speaker 1: But we're doing right and left these days, I know.

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Speaker 3: And then, but and then apps sometimes I find. I

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Speaker 3: tell my mom, I'm like, oh, you should down this

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Speaker 3: Habit's really good, and she's like, yeah, but it's ninety

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Speaker 3: nine cents. And I'm like, come on, somebody took time

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Speaker 3: to and maybe now as an AI took time to

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Speaker 3: build it, but somebody took time to submit it to

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Speaker 3: the app store. True, And so I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of those things. Maybe it's because I'm on the other

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Speaker 3: side now, I'm like, I'm a creator, Like I create things.

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Speaker 3: I'm less, you know, objecting to spending money towards things

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Speaker 3: other people build. So I'll extend that to software.

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Speaker 2: Fair enough well, and not to justify the expense. But

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Speaker 2: I like what you said too, as far as it

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Speaker 2: is a way that, yes, you could spend the time

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Speaker 2: and comb through different websites. Ask your AI app that

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Speaker 2: the system that you were just showing us before the

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Speaker 2: before we record, ask it to find the answers for you.

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Speaker 2: Or you can get it directly from the source yourself,

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Speaker 2: if you know it's a I don't know, a reliable source,

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Speaker 2: and if it provides a lot of value for you.

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Speaker 2: But you know, so I kind of mentioned I touched

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Speaker 2: on a couple of the companies that you were highly

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Speaker 2: involved with early on. How often do you think about that? Like,

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Speaker 2: does that influence how it is that you think about

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Speaker 2: Let's say, like we're just talking about paying for data.

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Speaker 2: Are you kind of constantly thinking through just new opportunities,

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Speaker 2: new ideas. I'm curious how that impacts how you view

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Speaker 2: the world right now because you've got a podcast all

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Speaker 2: the hacks, but you're you're more than just like a

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Speaker 2: podcast host. You're not just trying to find ways to

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Speaker 2: cut corners.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd love to hear you speak to that.

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Speaker 3: I think having worked for like a decade in Silicon

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Speaker 3: Valley building startups, spending a lot of time trying to

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Speaker 3: find new ways to do things, I think I bring

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Speaker 3: that to everything. I definitely this goes long before that career.

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Speaker 3: I was always the person in school where I'd be like, no, like,

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Speaker 3: there's got to be a better way. Can't I do

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Speaker 3: it a different way? Can I take the final today

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Speaker 3: so I don't have to sit in your class all day?

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Speaker 3: And so when I started a podcast, I wasn't like, Oh,

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Speaker 3: I just do what everyone else does. I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 3: why don't I treat this like a business? How do

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Speaker 3: the analytics work? How does the growth engine work. How

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Speaker 3: do you know what kind of viral loops can you create?

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Speaker 3: And I think every time I look at anything, I

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Speaker 3: come with that like entrepreneurial founder mentality of what could

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Speaker 3: this become? How could it be done differently? What is

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Speaker 3: everyone else missing? And I'm just amazed at how many

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Speaker 3: industries just kind of operate the same way they've been

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Speaker 3: operating for a long time. And podcasting is one where

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Speaker 3: we've had a lot of conversations about this, the three

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Speaker 3: of us, Like some people are just sitting there doing

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Speaker 3: the same thing they've done for ten years, and then

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Speaker 3: you're like, ooh, what if we try this thing differently?

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Speaker 3: You guys were talking about SEO earlier, Like there's all

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Speaker 3: these opportunities to treat a podcast like a business, but

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Speaker 3: I think there's opportunities to treat your life like a business,

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Speaker 3: your relationship like a business. Not in the sense that

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Speaker 3: you need to make it a business, but what are

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Speaker 3: ways to make it more efficient? How could you improve it?

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Speaker 3: Like I'm kind of taking that growth mindset to everything

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Speaker 3: I do. I'm curious relationally, what does that look like

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Speaker 3: for you and your wife? When you treat that, do

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Speaker 3: you treat your marriage like a business. I mean, we

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Speaker 3: work together. So yeah, yeah, I think one way is

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Speaker 3: what are better ways to have a healthy relationship. When's

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Speaker 3: the best time of day for us to have certain conversations?

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Speaker 1: Is it to happen in the morning.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. Does that work? We have a sauna?

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Speaker 3: Now do we have our conversations in the sauna where

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Speaker 3: we're not just dric.

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Speaker 1: That should we have them? That should have been your

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Speaker 1: your craft bere equivalent.

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Speaker 3: So things like that, like we're experiment with when we

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Speaker 3: have the conversation. We'll experiment with whether we one time

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Speaker 3: we were like, let's write up notes before we have

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Speaker 3: like a you know, like a family goals check in

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Speaker 3: or you know, we just open to different things. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: we've seen people post stuff like here's the way we

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Speaker 3: do our check ins. I don't believe that the way

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Speaker 3: we operate our relationship at any given point in time

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Speaker 3: is the answer. I think the biggest change was I

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Speaker 3: interviewed this couple that wrote a book called The eighty

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Speaker 3: eighty Marriage, and their general principle was, so many relationships

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Speaker 3: are fifty to fifty. Tip for tat you did the

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Speaker 3: dishes last night, I'll do them this night. You watched

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Speaker 3: Watch did Kids Bedtime, I'll do it, And their idea was,

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Speaker 3: if you can just operate on the assumption that everyone's

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Speaker 3: doing eighty percent, you can stop keeping score and it

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Speaker 3: gets rid of a lot of the overhead in a relationship.

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Speaker 3: And so we tried that. I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: it's so nice. It was like, you just assume the

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Speaker 3: other person is going to do as much, and obviously

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Speaker 3: you have to have a partner that's willing to do

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Speaker 3: a lot, Like yeah, if you have to be the

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Speaker 3: partner willing to do a lot too, exactly, But if

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Speaker 3: you're both that and you can stop keeping score, then

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Speaker 3: it just gets rid of a lot of the I guess,

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Speaker 3: the overhead of a relationship and operating a family, which

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Speaker 3: is kind of also like a business schedules kids.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. We talked about the startups. You started

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Speaker 1: one called laid Off Camp at one point, right, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I'm curious for people out there for unemployments

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Speaker 1: pretty low right now, but what if someone does face

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Speaker 1: a layoff or there's certain things that they need to

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Speaker 1: do immediately post that happening.

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Speaker 3: So mine kind of came by surprise, but it was

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Speaker 3: in the middle of the Great Financial Crisis in two

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Speaker 3: thousand and eight, so I was not alone in the

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Speaker 3: fact that there are lots of people who lost their jobs.

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Speaker 1: I think right now, with everything.

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Speaker 3: That's happening on the internet, with all these language models,

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Speaker 3: AI tools, it has never been easier to kind of

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Speaker 3: experiment on your own. And I really wish that I

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Speaker 3: had a complete, blank slate of time for the next three,

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Speaker 3: four or five months to just play around, because the

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Speaker 3: things you can build are unbelievable. I remember five ten

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Speaker 3: years ago, I'd get all these calls from people. I

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Speaker 3: remember one time I talked to someone at my university

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Speaker 3: and they were like, I've got an app idea, And

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh gosh, another one of these, Like

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Speaker 3: random person who doesn't have any experienced building software wants

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Speaker 3: to build an app. Well, now that person can build

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Speaker 3: the app and put in the app store like next week.

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Speaker 3: And so I would say, if I had gotten laid

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Speaker 3: off right now, assuming I'd had an emergency fund and

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Speaker 3: a lot of the things that I know you guys

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Speaker 3: care about as well, now would be an awesome time

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Speaker 3: to be able to experiment with any idea you have

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Speaker 3: and find product market fit quickly. On really anything, because

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Speaker 3: it's never been easier to build. But it sucks and

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry. Yeah, there's no way to skirt around.

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Speaker 1: What you're saying is that you wish you had that

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Speaker 1: additional time. It's funny how much you have the financial prep. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so get ready for it. But I'm curious if you

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Speaker 1: ever regret.

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Speaker 2: So it's interesting that you mentioned like the relationships part

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Speaker 2: of the question, jol.

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Speaker 1: But because like when.

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Speaker 2: You hack something, what you're typically focused on is the

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Speaker 2: end result, right and so, and the idea is that,

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Speaker 2: like what can we do to get us to the

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Speaker 2: end result quote unquote faster or more efficiently? Do you

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Speaker 2: ever regret doing that because of what you're missing out

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Speaker 2: in the process, like in the interim, Like sometimes the

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Speaker 2: process how it is that you achieve that end result.

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Speaker 2: It's formational, like the means mean more than the end.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Like so I hate to use this as an example,

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Speaker 2: but like some of the Semaglue, tides, wigov, all these

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Speaker 2: different drugs.

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Speaker 1: You got canceled the other day for using that.

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Speaker 2: So but you don't there's something that you Obviously there

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Speaker 2: are amazing results that people are experiencing by doing that,

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Speaker 2: results that they would never have been able to achieve otherwise,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's fantastic, But there's also something that

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Speaker 2: you're missing out in the interim, which is, let's just say,

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Speaker 2: movement or loading your bones, things that also benefit your body.

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Speaker 2: So in a similar way, do you ever see instances

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Speaker 2: where you say, man, it's pretty cool that I was

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Speaker 2: able to achieve that ends faster, but that there was

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Speaker 2: something that you missed out on in the interim.

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Speaker 3: I think I just try to think of it at

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Speaker 3: a higher level, so not just playing at ten thousand feet,

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Speaker 3: but thirty thousand feet and zoom out. Because if the

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Speaker 3: end goal is longevity, for example, if we're talking about health,

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Speaker 3: it's like, well, you do need strong bones and lots

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Speaker 3: of muscle mass. And if you just get on GLP

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Speaker 3: one so you don't take any protein and you don't

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Speaker 3: work out, you will lose weight, but you will lose

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Speaker 3: your muscle mass and that's not going to be good.

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Speaker 1: For the long game.

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Speaker 3: Sure, So the hack isn't to just do that. The

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Speaker 3: heck is to say, okay, what's the best set of

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Speaker 3: protocols I could put together? And maybe the hack is, okay,

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Speaker 3: I need to eat more protein and do more strength

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Speaker 3: training and do in addition.

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Speaker 1: So got it. I think it's funny.

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Speaker 3: The word hack is a tough one for me because

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Speaker 3: so many it turns off a lot of people, right,

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Speaker 3: But it also I can't find a better way to

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Speaker 3: succinctly say what I like. But what I like is

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Speaker 3: look at a thing and find out if there's a

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Speaker 3: better way to do it, And that better way might

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Speaker 3: be to take longer doing it right. That better like

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Speaker 3: the hack, might be that you don't try to make

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Speaker 3: this shorter, you actually spend the time because the energy

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Speaker 3: you put into it is the experience. And so my

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Speaker 3: ethos has always been if there's a thing you want,

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Speaker 3: there's probably a way to get that thing, whether it's

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Speaker 3: an outcome, a good, a service for less. And so

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Speaker 3: after you mentioned laid off camp, after I got laid off,

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Speaker 3: I was like, I need to find a job, and

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Speaker 3: the jobs I've had in the past I didn't love.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know what to do.

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Speaker 3: But I need to save money as aggressively as possible

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Speaker 3: with whatever I do, because I haven't found a job

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Speaker 3: I love. But I don't want to just like eat

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Speaker 3: beans and rice and live in like a little cabin

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Speaker 3: in the middle of nowhere. So how do you find

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Speaker 3: ways to take the things you love doing in life?

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Speaker 3: My wife and I love traveling, but not spend money

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Speaker 3: on them because we need to take that money and

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Speaker 3: save so that we don't have to work at jobs

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Speaker 3: we don't love forever.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you want it all?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I want it all, but like I don't want

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Speaker 3: to I don't want to sacrifice. And I think that

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Speaker 3: that's where the kind of hacking mentality comes up. It's like,

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Speaker 3: is there a way to do it? And sometimes the

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Speaker 3: answer is no, you just have to work hard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah for some folks.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's when it comes down to the individual as well,

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Speaker 2: because there are some folks that don't necessarily have the

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Speaker 2: capacity to maybe think about problems in the in the

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Speaker 2: way that you are, in which case hard work. You

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Speaker 2: know that, like for them, that's going to be the

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Speaker 2: only solution. So you alluded to travel. This is gonna

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Speaker 2: be a little teaser as we set up are the

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Speaker 2: credit card points? How many points do you do you

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Speaker 2: have like a running total of how many points that

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Speaker 2: you have a mass over your entire lifetime?

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Speaker 1: A massed over my lifetime?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: Okay have currently? Yes?

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Speaker 3: Approximately A massed over lifetime. Maybe, like I could probably ballpark.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what do you think the ballpark is? So right now,

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Speaker 1: I have a little over sixteen million.

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, that is insane.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna say it's somewhere over twenty. Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of points. We have a lot to

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Speaker 1: talk to you about credit card points than one of

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Speaker 1: the most interesting stories I've heard though, that you've used

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Speaker 1: points for, because typically we talk about buying a plane

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Speaker 1: ticket or paying for a hotel stay with your points,

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Speaker 1: and those are very traditional ways. You paid for your

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Speaker 1: wedding photographer with credit card points.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So I met this woman who was technically videographer,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, I love a wedding video. I'd

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Speaker 3: never even thought about it. It wasn't really in the budget,

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Speaker 3: but I actually had no idea how much a wedding

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Speaker 3: videographer cost. And I saw this video online and I

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Speaker 3: was like, it was beautiful, But it was for this

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Speaker 3: guy's wedding who I just I didn't know him personally,

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Speaker 3: but I knew he had a lot of money, and

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Speaker 3: I was like, well, it was really good. Let's just

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Speaker 3: reach out. You know, sometimes things are the same price

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Speaker 3: depending on who you hire, sometimes are super expensive. And

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Speaker 3: she came back with a price that was five figures

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Speaker 3: and I was like, wow, this is not in the budget.

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Speaker 3: And we were talking and we actually kind of hit

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Speaker 3: it off. She thought like we just had a good conversation.

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Speaker 3: You know, you meet people and you're like, I could

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Speaker 3: be your friend. So this wedding videographer and I were

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Speaker 3: like having a great conversation. She like me, my wife,

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Speaker 3: she grew up in Colorado, the wedding was in Colorado.

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Speaker 1: It just all seemed to click.

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Speaker 3: And then she's at the price and I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we can't do this and she was like, oh, like

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Speaker 3: I really thought it'd be a fun wedding to do.

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Speaker 3: It turns out that as you move up in the

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Speaker 3: client tele you have when you start doing weddings for

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Speaker 3: the richest people, you know, doing the most expensive weddings,

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Speaker 3: they actually sometimes lack a lot of personality. So she

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Speaker 3: actually was like just dying for a reason to do

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Speaker 3: someone's wedding that she told me this later, that wasn't

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Speaker 3: just the cookie cutter wedding she'd been doing and doing,

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Speaker 3: but not at the expense of doing a pro bono

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Speaker 3: that was not an option. But in our conversations, I

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Speaker 3: told her that we were taking our honeymoon to the

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Speaker 3: Seychelles and she was like, oh my gosh. My husband

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Speaker 3: and I thought it would be amazing to one day

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Speaker 3: go to the Seashells, which is a small tropical island

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Speaker 3: kind of halfway between Southern Africa and India, like middle

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Speaker 3: of nowhere. And I was like thinking about this, And

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Speaker 3: then a couple days later, Delta had this promotion where

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Speaker 3: if you transferred miles from your account to someone else's

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Speaker 3: account and you had to pay but not too much,

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Speaker 3: they would double them, and so I had I was like, well,

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Speaker 3: I was about to transfer all these miles to my

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Speaker 3: account to book our flight to the Stayshells. So I

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Speaker 3: reached out to her and I was like, hey, you

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Speaker 3: mentioned that you would really love to go on a

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Speaker 3: honeymoon to the stay Shehells. What if I booked you

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Speaker 3: and your husband business class tickets to the Seayshells as

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Speaker 3: you know, maybe we could do something here. And she said, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think that.

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Speaker 1: Could work a little barter. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: She came back and she's like, let's do it. She's like,

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Speaker 3: if you can just pay for the fixed costs, like

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Speaker 3: the hotel room for the videographer and those kinds of things.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll do it.

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Speaker 3: And so instead of transferring to miles just from I

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Speaker 3: think it was AMEX to my account. It was AMEX

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Speaker 3: to my account and then my account to my wife's account.

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Speaker 3: And I think the transfer call, like to transfer the

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Speaker 3: miles was like twelve hundred bucks and the hotels were

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Speaker 3: probably like five hundred bucks. So we saved I know,

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Speaker 3: we saved over ten grand.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, video, it's amazing.

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Speaker 3: And the street cost of those tickets were like ten

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Speaker 3: grand each. So she got two tickets that cost twenty grand.

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Speaker 3: Not to say she was going to pay twenty grand

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Speaker 3: for them, but she got twenty thousand dollars of tickets.

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Speaker 1: She got a better deal. You got a better deal.

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Speaker 1: You're thinking outside the box of the MSRP. Yeah, she

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Speaker 1: feels wealthy. Yeah. Now that's a great wedding video. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's awesome, dude. Yeah, I mean, I think there's so

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Speaker 1: many interesting things we can learn talking to Chris, and

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Speaker 1: specifically we're gonna dive all the way into credit card points.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna get like knee deep, maybe even chess deep

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Speaker 1: my credit card points stuff. So We'll get to more

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Speaker 1: questions about that with Chris right after this. I we're

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Speaker 1: back for the break talking with Chris Hutchins.

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Speaker 2: This is the definitive travel Rewards episode, and Chris, before

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Speaker 2: we dive into kind of like the specific details and

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Speaker 2: how we can maximize credit card travel rewards. I think

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Speaker 2: it's worth asking the question if it is even worth

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Speaker 2: it to chase points anymore, because like back in the

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Speaker 2: day before let's say Chase implemented the five twenty four rule,

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Speaker 2: it felt like it was a little bit more of

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Speaker 2: the wild wild West several years ago, where it seemed

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Speaker 2: like that there was also just more opportunity. But do

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Speaker 2: you feel like that there is still the opportunity today

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Speaker 2: to maximize the points that you can earn from some

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Speaker 2: of the different credit card issuers.

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Speaker 3: I saw this great post I think it was in

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Speaker 3: the Wall Street Journal where it's like the value of

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Speaker 3: credit card rewards has gone down, and then someone combated

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Speaker 3: that post saying, yes, the actual number of you know,

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Speaker 3: the ability to get a trip to Europe with your points,

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Speaker 3: it takes more spend now than it used to. On

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Speaker 3: the flip side, the cost of that trip has gone

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Speaker 3: up and the sign up bonuses on cards has gone up,

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Speaker 3: and the like number of points you earn per dollar

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Speaker 3: have gone up to the point that I think you're

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Speaker 3: actually better off now than you were before. Really, so

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Speaker 3: I think that's true. What has also changed, though, The

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Speaker 3: little wrench I'll throw into this is that the amount

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Speaker 3: of cash back alternative that you could return like earn

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Speaker 3: has also gone up, so your opportunity like, I think

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Speaker 3: points have gotten more, not more valuable, but the quantity

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Speaker 3: of them that you can earn gets you more total value.

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Speaker 3: But the alternative or the opportunity cost is cash back

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Speaker 3: that's also gotten better. So I think overall we win.

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Speaker 3: No matter which game you played, the game has gotten better.

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Speaker 3: Whether you want to play the game or not. I

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Speaker 3: think really comes down to how you want to travel

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Speaker 3: and whether you want to travel. Sure, if you don't

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Speaker 3: want to travel, you should probably get some cash back. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's where you should focus. If you want to travel

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Speaker 3: just domestically, and or you want to travel internationally, but

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Speaker 3: you only want to travel an economy and you always

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Speaker 3: have really fixed dates and you don't you're not that flexible.

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Speaker 3: Cash back is probably going to take you further. But

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Speaker 3: if you want to do aspirational travel. You want to

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Speaker 3: fly in you know, premium cabins, you want to stay

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Speaker 3: at really high end resorts, and you have a little

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Speaker 3: flexibility whether that's where you go, when you go, whether

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Speaker 3: you change planes along the way. I think miles and

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Speaker 3: points will get you significantly further than cash back.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of people who are listening might say, well,

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Speaker 1: it seems like the best credit cards come with significant

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Speaker 1: annual fees attached to them, right. I think you told

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Speaker 1: us before you don't have to share this if you

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Speaker 1: don't want to. But how much you spend every annually

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Speaker 1: in annual fees on credit cards? It's up there. So

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Speaker 1: what would you say to somebody who says, gosh, I

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Speaker 1: just don't know if I'm going to get the value

435
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,119
Speaker 1: for the annual fee it comes with this card, and

436
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:02,760
Speaker 1: whether or not that makes sense for me given the

437
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,440
Speaker 1: benefits I might or might not get, I would say, every.

438
00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,960
Speaker 3: Time I've done the math, the annual fee is often

439
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:14,959
Speaker 3: unjustified by the points earning rate, Meaning this card earns

440
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,680
Speaker 3: two points per dollar on everything, but this one earns

441
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,119
Speaker 3: two point five. Am I gonna spend four hundred dollars

442
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,040
Speaker 3: and make it worth that extra half a point on

443
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 3: every dollar I spend. And unless you're running a business

444
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,320
Speaker 3: putting hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars through your card,

445
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,280
Speaker 3: that one's gonna be harder. Where the annual fee is

446
00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:35,240
Speaker 3: kind of very easily negatable is looking at all the

447
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 3: perks and credits the card comes with. So if I

448
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,119
Speaker 3: had to guess, I probably have like sixteen ish credit

449
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,800
Speaker 3: cards easily probably three four thousand dollars of annual fees.

450
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 3: But let's take a card, the Hilton Aspier card.

451
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:51,120
Speaker 1: Paula has I.

452
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,639
Speaker 3: Five hundred something annual dollars five hundred dollars annual fee ish,

453
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,320
Speaker 3: but you get a free night at any Hilton in

454
00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 3: the world. And so we've used that to stay in

455
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 3: hotels that otherwise we most recently used. At a hotel

456
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:04,919
Speaker 3: it was three grand a night. Wow, Now what I've

457
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,200
Speaker 3: stayed at the three where or in Majorca, Spain? Okay,

458
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 3: it was incredible and so okay, So pay five hundred

459
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,600
Speaker 3: dollars get a three thousand dollars.

460
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:15,760
Speaker 1: A night hotel room. Sounds a good deal.

461
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's also got a fifty dollars credit. It's kind

462
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 3: of annoying every quarter for airlines so I just go

463
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 3: into the United site, I add fifty dollars to my

464
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,399
Speaker 3: travel bank, get that fifty dollars credit back, so I

465
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 3: can capture two hundred there. With many of these cards,

466
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,439
Speaker 3: if not all of them, they've kind of become this

467
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 3: little coupon book, which if you're not going to take.

468
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,639
Speaker 1: It's a perfect way to describe it. It's like those

469
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 1: Q funny books you just spend twenty bucks on and

470
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 1: you have to flip through them and find them and

471
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:41,879
Speaker 1: use them. That's how it works.

472
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 3: So AMEX, a lot of MX cards have an airline credit.

473
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,879
Speaker 3: It only works on one airline, and if you and

474
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:48,720
Speaker 3: it doesn't work on flights, it only works on the

475
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,159
Speaker 3: incidental fees. If you pick Southwest, it also works on

476
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 3: any flight under one hundred dollars, or maybe it's one

477
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,879
Speaker 3: hundred and ten dollars. So go buy a seventy dollars ticket.

478
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 3: Southwest has free cancelation. Cancel it. Use that credit to

479
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 3: book a two hundred dollars ticket. Now you've been able

480
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 3: to kind of cash out your credits.

481
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 1: You know.

482
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,120
Speaker 3: One of the things I thought about saying I splurge

483
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,920
Speaker 3: on at the beginning was I'm wearing like twenty five

484
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 3: or thirty dollars boxers, which to me seems an egregious

485
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,400
Speaker 3: amount of moneys amount of boxers. But the Platinum card

486
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 3: has a fifty dollars SAX credit, and like there's just

487
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,679
Speaker 3: nothing cheap to buy at sacks except for boxers. So

488
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,880
Speaker 3: it's like we could buy these these unreasonably expensive boxers

489
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 3: because I have this fifty dollars credit. So I wouldn't

490
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,680
Speaker 3: value that fifty dollars credit at fifty dollars because I

491
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,679
Speaker 3: wouldn't pay fifty dollars for two pairs of underwear.

492
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 1: Would do it otherwise?

493
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 3: But I probably valued like twenty bucks. Yeah, And so

494
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 3: if you sum up all the cards I have and

495
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 3: how money, how much value I get from those credits?

496
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 3: Very few of my cards have a net annual fee.

497
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,400
Speaker 1: Yeah all right, okay, So is it ballar to spend

498
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 1: four grand if you get five grand back? I don't know.

499
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,440
Speaker 1: I just think it's smart. Yeah, yeah, I think you're right.

500
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:50,120
Speaker 1: It makes sense.

501
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 2: So you mentioned Southwest, What are your thoughts there? Because Southwest,

502
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 2: specifically the Companion Pass, that has been my first foray,

503
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 2: because up until I would say last year or a

504
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 2: couple of years ago, when I first went after the

505
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 2: Companion Pass.

506
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:02,239
Speaker 1: And got it.

507
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 2: I've always been a cash back sort of guy because

508
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 2: for us, we're not doing a whole lot, weren't doing

509
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 2: a whole lot of traveling.

510
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 1: We've found four young kids will do that to you.

511
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's decade of having babies and staying home and

512
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 2: not traveling. That changed last year. But yeah, are you

513
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 2: a fan of the Southwest Companion Past?

514
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 1: Is it? I think here? Southwest Pass is amazing. It's

515
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 1: still as good of a deal as I'm macking it

516
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 1: out to be.

517
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 3: The Southwest Companion Pass is as good of a deal

518
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 3: as is the number of dollars you spend on Southwest

519
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,719
Speaker 3: on flights that one person also comes with you on.

520
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 3: So if you spend five hundred dollars a year on

521
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 3: flights and your partner or friend is traveling with you,

522
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 3: then it's worth about five hundred dollars.

523
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 1: Yeah.

524
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 3: If you spend eighteen thousand dollars a year flying around

525
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 3: the country and you bring someone with you, then it's

526
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,640
Speaker 3: worth eighteen thousand dollars. So it's a really different flight

527
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 3: on how how many flights you take and when you

528
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 3: earn it, because you get it the year you earn

529
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 3: it and the next year. So if you earn it

530
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 3: in December, you get it for thirteen months. If you're

531
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 3: on it in January, get it for twenty four months.

532
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 3: So there's a little bit of nuance there, but opening

533
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 3: two Southwest credit cards and sometimes there's a promotion whereas

534
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 3: just one can get this for you. And so I

535
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 3: think ultimately the one hang up I have with cash

536
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 3: back is that the sign up offers on cash back

537
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 3: cards are often just not as generous as the sign

538
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 3: up offers on points cards. And so I put together

539
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 3: this model where I looked at the top twenty sign

540
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,199
Speaker 3: up bonuses on all credit cards few months back, and

541
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 3: on average they earned about sixteen percent back. And that

542
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 3: was just looking at the value of the points. Right,

543
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 3: So you might open up a credit card that gives

544
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 3: you two hundred and fifty thousand points. You could cash

545
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 3: those points in even if you didn't want to try

546
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 3: to reward them for travel, you just wanted to convert

547
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 3: them to dollars. You could find a way to get

548
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,199
Speaker 3: one to one point one cents for those points. And

549
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 3: so if you you know, it's like over two thousand

550
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 3: dollars of value for opening that card, most cash back

551
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 3: cards have a kind of sign up bonus of like

552
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty three hundred and four hundred bucks.

553
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 3: So the highest ROI on your spending, to the tune

554
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 3: of sixteen percent back is going after the biggest and

555
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 3: best sign up offers. And so if you want to

556
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 3: maximize the way you spend your money, you should always

557
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 3: be putting money on a card that has a sign

558
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 3: up bonus. And if you're worried about your credit, then

559
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 3: I would just say don't because most people that sign

560
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 3: up for twenty cards a year end up increasing their

561
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 3: credit and not decreasing it.

562
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: Which you got to pay attention to your credit score

563
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,360
Speaker 1: because you won't qualify for some of these cards if

564
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: you don't, and you could ding it if you don't

565
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: use them.

566
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 3: Aropri Yeah, and you might get a bunch of credit

567
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 3: cards and you have a bunch of inquiries on your

568
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 3: credit and then you're going to go get a mortgage,

569
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 3: and that could be a problem. So I would say,

570
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 3: like within six to twelve months of any major loan

571
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 3: you're taking out, you know, playing this game really hard

572
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 3: could be less advantageous.

573
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: But if you you know.

574
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 3: Got a mortgage a year ago and you got a

575
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 3: car six months ago and you don't have any intent on,

576
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 3: you know, really tapping a major, major lending credit situation.

577
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 3: Then I would say it's a it's a game, and

578
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 3: you can play it. I don't even play it that hard, though, Yeah,

579
00:24:58,400 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 3: what do you what do you mean to be?

580
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: Play like? I'm not.

581
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 2: There are people that's cards right four to five thousand

582
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 2: dollars annual piece.

583
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 3: But I would say the average person that's really playing

584
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 3: this game hard is probably opening up ten to fifteen

585
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 3: cards a year new cards. I've tapered that back a lot.

586
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 3: I probably am like four cards a year, and so

587
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 3: I am not optimal, right because if I am going

588
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 3: to go put money on a card that's not earning

589
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 3: a welcome bonus, there's no world on any expense I

590
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 3: know where you're going to earn much more than like

591
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 3: six percent back maximum, but usually it's probably like three, two,

592
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 3: four and so versus the sixteen you'd get from a

593
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 3: sign up bonus. But it's just a lot to be

594
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 3: like I'm going to open up a new card each

595
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 3: month and and collect these people.

596
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 1: Do you have like a spreadsheet where you keep track

597
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: of everything? Like, how do you do okay, because you

598
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: have to, because you'll get lost in the shuffle.

599
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 3: There are some apps travel freely, card pointers that you

600
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 3: can sign up for that you know very you know,

601
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 3: low cost or free that will manage. Like, here are all

602
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 3: the cards I have. Remind me when my annual fees

603
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 3: are due. Help me make sure I, you know, do

604
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 3: the right thing. Back to annual fees if you're about

605
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 3: to if you have a card with an annual fee,

606
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 3: very often, if you call or live chat with the

607
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 3: bank and say, hey, annual fees a lot. I've had

608
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 3: the annual fee waived the second year I've had. Well,

609
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 3: if you can put another three thousand dollars on it,

610
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 3: you know, in the next three months, we'll give you twenty.

611
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,719
Speaker 1: Five thousand points. It's like, okay, well that negates half

612
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: the annual fee.

613
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 3: So you can negotiate their annual fee with retention offers

614
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 3: if you want.

615
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: What would you say to someone who's saying, all right,

616
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: I like the idea of getting free tickets to Spain

617
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: or something like that, and I use my credit cards responsibly,

618
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: so I'm pretty sure I can do this without like

619
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 1: screwing it up in a major way. But how do

620
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: I know which card makes the most sense for me

621
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 1: given my circumstances in the way I spend.

622
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 3: So I think there's the question of which card makes

623
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 3: the most sense for me based on how I spend

624
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 3: If I don't want to play this game too crazy,

625
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 3: And that's just looking at how much do you spend

626
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 3: and where? Right, If you're spending all of your money

627
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 3: on travel and dining, there are cards like the Chase

628
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 3: Sapphire Preferred the Chase Sapphire Reserve that are like two

629
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 3: or three points per dollar on those categories. If you

630
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 3: spend all of your if you have a contractor business

631
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 3: and you spend all your money at home depot, Like,

632
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 3: there's not a great home Depot card or card that

633
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 3: earns a lot of points at home depot. You might

634
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 3: be better off with a card like the Venture of

635
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 3: the Venture X that's just two X on everything, or

636
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 3: you might be better off going for cash back. Right,

637
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 3: the robin Hood card is now three percent cash back

638
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 3: on everything. US Bank probably by the time this comes out,

639
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 3: is supposed to have a card that earns four percent

640
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 3: cash back on everything.

641
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 1: Wow, which is pretty competitive. You do have to have.

642
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 3: It's like a varying rate of two to four percent,

643
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 3: depending on how much you keep at US Bank. So

644
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 3: if you transfer an Ira or a brokerage account and

645
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 3: you have over one hundred one hundred grand in a

646
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 3: US Bank account, it doesn't have to be cash, it

647
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 3: could be an old Ira or something, then they'll give

648
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 3: you four percent.

649
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: On everything is pretty solid. I mean, anyone listening and

650
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: that's on anything. And it just makes it easy too.

651
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 2: You know, you're a usage that could be an easy and.

652
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: So here's what I'll call a hack.

653
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 3: I used to think that the points, like I still

654
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 3: believe points are incredible because we stay at a hotel.

655
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 3: That hotel costs three thousand dollars a night, and it

656
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 3: was one hundred and thirty thousand points a night, and

657
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 3: so I'd much sure to use my points. But here's

658
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 3: the thing. Those are Hilton points. And you can earn

659
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 3: Hilton points by signing up for a Hilton credit card,

660
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 3: getting to sign up bonus of points, spending money on

661
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 3: it and all that.

662
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: That's great. You can also just buy those points.

663
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 3: And so what I've come around to is that there

664
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:26,959
Speaker 3: are a lot of people that come to me and say, gosh,

665
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 3: sometimes I want to book a trip and like there

666
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 3: just aren't ways to book it with miles and points.

667
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 3: That's a good deal, but I have all these miles

668
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 3: and points. Alternatively, you could focus on earning cash back

669
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 3: and then just buy the points if you find a

670
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 3: good points and miles deal. And I looked last year,

671
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 3: and most miles and points programs points go on sale

672
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 3: anywhere from like two to twenty times a year, and

673
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 3: so Hilton points regularly, like probably twenty times a year

674
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 3: go on sale for half a cent. So you want

675
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 3: one hundred thirty thousand points to book a room that

676
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 3: costs three grand, you can buy them for six hundred

677
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 3: fift dollar just on hillt Like you go there, say

678
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 3: I'm about to book this hotel, it's super expensive. What

679
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 3: if I just go buy the points and then book

680
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 3: the hotel with points right away? You don't even have

681
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 3: to play the points game. You could have been playing

682
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 3: the cash back game your whole life. Yeah, and then

683
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 3: see France has this amazing deal where you can get

684
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 3: a five thousand dollars ticket for forty thousand points or something,

685
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 3: and then you could just go buy the points, and sure,

686
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 3: maybe it would have been a better deal if you

687
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 3: had been earning those points in the first place.

688
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: But I would say that eighty.

689
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 3: Percent of the value that you get from having points

690
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 3: and miles is from the points in miles to the

691
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 3: value of the ticket or the hotel, and so you

692
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,239
Speaker 3: basically you can buy almost any point for less than

693
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 3: two cents. So any value over that you can get

694
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 3: from buying points, it's like that little marginal difference of

695
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 3: like are you getting it for one cent or two cents?

696
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: Like if you if you earn the.

697
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 3: Points on your card, it's probably a little cheaper, but

698
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 3: you lose the flexibility. So I would have no problem

699
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 3: with someone listening and say, I want to keep it simple.

700
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go get this robin Hood card US Bank card.

701
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 3: I'm gonna earn three to four percent cash back on everything.

702
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: And if the.

703
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 3: Hotel I want to stay at for my big trip

704
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 3: happens to be a bit available for points, maybe I'll

705
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 3: just see if I can buy those points on sale

706
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 3: and get that huge arbitrage where you can save eighty

707
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: percent yea without having to earn those points in the

708
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 3: first place.

709
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: What's the longest that you've waited for those points to

710
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 2: go and sale. I mean, I guess depending on the

711
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 2: issue or you're saying that it happens fairly frequently.

712
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 3: But yes, So I think that's the big challenge is

713
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 3: if you want to book it, if you want to

714
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 3: book it right then maybe they're not on sale. You

715
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 3: have to pay point seven, maybe you have to pay

716
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 3: point a like it really depends on the program. The

717
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,719
Speaker 3: strategy I like, and this takes a little bit of

718
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 3: knowing your travel style. Is like, Okay, I've decided and

719
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 3: this is a hypothetical. It's like I've decided I want

720
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 3: to take a big trip, and I know I'm probably

721
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 3: gonna stay at these four or five places. They're all Hilton's.

722
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 3: Hilton Points are on sale. Let me buy enough points

723
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,479
Speaker 3: to book that trip, and I'll keep that in my balance,

724
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 3: and then when that trip happens, I'll use them, and

725
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 3: the next time they're on sale after that, I'll buy them,

726
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 3: so you kind of always have the points waiting. Now

727
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 3: I realized that might take a little bit of an

728
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 3: upfront commitment.

729
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: Like your point pantry, y store them for when you

730
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: need them.

731
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 3: So for me, I played the points game. Now I

732
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 3: have those balances and all be a great name for

733
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 3: an Applets steal it this Points pantry.

734
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: You can have that one. Yeah, you build it with

735
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: chat VPT. It's got a nice little rustic right home.

736
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: We feel too, exactly like Benny Crocker.

737
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I would say if you play the points game,

738
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 3: a little build up a balance everywhere, see how you

739
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 3: use those points, and when you realize, gosh, it seems

740
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 3: like every trip we've taken, and this is true for us,

741
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 3: it seems like Air France or Air Canada Aeroplan is

742
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 3: ninety percent of the way we've used our points for flights.

743
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 3: We're not transferring them anywhere else. It's those two programs.

744
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 3: So now that I know that, that's pretty much how

745
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 3: I'm booking all of our flights. Once I have no

746
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 3: Air France or Aeroplan points, next time they're on sale,

747
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 3: it's probably worth a little bit of an investment because

748
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 3: I know I'm going to be able to use them

749
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 3: because I understand it. So maybe if you already have

750
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 3: some points, or you open up a card for a

751
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 3: really great sign up bonus, see how you use those

752
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 3: points for travel, and once you kind of get a

753
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 3: sense of your way of travel and using points down

754
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 3: the road, the thing and buying points could make sense.

755
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 3: But I can see how it's daunting. But there are

756
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 3: multiple cases where someone has come to me and said,

757
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 3: I really want this deal, and I was like, oh,

758
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 3: it's such a good deal. If you just had these points,

759
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 3: and they're I don't have them, I'm like, well you

760
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 3: can buy them, and like it will never occurred to them.

761
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 3: It never occurred to them. There's actually companies online that

762
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 3: will say, hey, you want to buy this ticket that's

763
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 3: three grand, We'll sell it to you for two grand.

764
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 3: And the reason they're selling it to you for two

765
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 3: grand is because they can get it. They're buying points

766
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 3: on like a slightly shadier marketplace of points buying than

767
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 3: just going to the airline in the hotel's websites. But

768
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 3: the cool thing and the reason why a lot of

769
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 3: this works is that there's three major airline alliances, Sky Teams,

770
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 3: Star Alliance, and One World. And so if there's a

771
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 3: flight to Europe that you think, well, I really want

772
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 3: to take this flight and it's on United, the best

773
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 3: deal might be Aeroplan, and so you might be better

774
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 3: off with Aeroplan points over United or Avianca or Luftanza

775
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 3: or you know, any other Star Alliance partner. But if

776
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 3: the United points are on sale right now, Like you're

777
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 3: not necessarily waiting for one airlines points to go on sale.

778
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 3: You're waiting for any of the partners in the alliance

779
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 3: to go on sale. And so if every airline's going

780
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 3: on sale like once a month, and there's twelve airlines

781
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 3: that you could pick, you might not get the best

782
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 3: deal ever, but you'll probably get on a significantly better

783
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,719
Speaker 3: deal than just waiting for or just buying to take

784
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 3: it out right.

785
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've also talked about ways to earn points that

786
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: don't involve spending, right, So you don't just have to

787
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: swipe or insert now or your credit or tap to

788
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: pay in order to get the points back to your

789
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: account through just what you're spending. What are the other

790
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: ways in some of which you've said, like you could

791
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: split the check right and then have other people pay

792
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: you via Venmo, but that can be annoying and frustrating

793
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: and weird on relationships. But there are ways that like

794
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: don't involve spending at all. Right, Yeah, so I did

795
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: this episode.

796
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 3: I think it was like fifty plus ways to earn

797
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 3: points without spending more, And that was my goal was like,

798
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 3: sometimes people want points, but they don't want to just

799
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 3: go out and spend more money, because that's not responsible.

800
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 3: Like I always say, if you have to pay fees

801
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 3: to use your credit card, worth it. If you carry

802
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 3: a balance on your card and you're paying interest, definitely

803
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 3: not worth it.

804
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: If I'm buying stuff you otherwise wouldn't have purchased, yeah,

805
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: that's not worth it. Right.

806
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 3: Maybe if you're trying to create a reselling business, it

807
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 3: could be worth it, but that can be a little tricky.

808
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 3: I think where it's interesting is every time I'm looking

809
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 3: to buy something on the internet, I think everyone's like, okay,

810
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 3: I want to find a good deal. It's like, okay,

811
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 3: that's fair. So I have like a checklist in my

812
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 3: head that I should probably write down everything I do.

813
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 3: So I'm like, one, if it's on Amazon, I'm just

814
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 3: gonna look at I have this browser extension, KIPA, and

815
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 3: it just shows like the historical price. I'm just looking like,

816
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 3: does it happen that this thing that's fifty dollars is

817
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 3: always forty dollars and like in the last day it's

818
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 3: been fifty then, So that's one. I'm always looking at

819
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 3: cash back monitor to see if there are places that

820
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 3: I can earn points or cash back on the purchase.

821
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 3: A lot of times there are partnerships. So I went

822
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 3: through a lot of them in this episode, so I

823
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 3: won't mention all of them. But like Verbo and Airbnb

824
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 3: and Uber and Lyft and Starbucks, they all have partnerships

825
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 3: with different airlines and hotel groups. So it's like, oh,

826
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 3: link your jet Blue or book your Verbo on jet

827
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 3: Blues website and get extra Jet Blue points. Or if

828
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 3: you're flying jet Blue, I believe you get somewhere between

829
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 3: one and three Jet Blue points per dollar if you

830
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 3: shop on Amazon from your jet Blue Wi Fi. So

831
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 3: if you ever happen to be about to spend a

832
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 3: lot of money on Amazon and you have a Jet

833
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 3: Blue flight coming.

834
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 2: Out, make sure you're doing sure you spend it while

835
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 2: you're on Jet.

836
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: Blue while you're in the air. Yeah wow, And so

837
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: you can go to that.

838
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 3: If you use Rakotin, which is like a major cash

839
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 3: back portal, you can link it with your Amex account

840
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 3: and convert all those all that Amex or all that

841
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 3: cash back into Amex points. There are just countless programs

842
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 3: that earn cash back when you're shopping. There are portals

843
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 3: that are like get a mortgage through this thing. Now,

844
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 3: I wouldn't get a mortgage that's a worse deal than

845
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 3: another mortgage, right, But if there's a portal you can

846
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 3: book your mortgage through and get points on it, why not.

847
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 3: And so I'd say, I'm always looking around for what

848
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 3: are these things? And I tried to make like a

849
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 3: full list of them so people can go one. But

850
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 3: I would not encourage people to spend more money than

851
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 3: they're already spending. I would encourage them to get creative.

852
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 2: Would you encourage them to go ahead and buy the

853
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: silk underwear, the silk boxers if.

854
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: That, I mean, if you've got sax credit to burn.

855
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,720
Speaker 2: If they're otherwise like one hundred percent cotton kind of guys.

856
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: But I don't know, you do look very comfortable right now,

857
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: incredibly relaxed.

858
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 2: I'm curious, Like it seems a lot of the best

859
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 2: card sign up offers that are out there are for

860
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 2: business credit cards, and so talk to us about what

861
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 2: it takes to qualify as a business. I think there's

862
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 2: a lot of folks who are thinking, well, you know,

863
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 2: like I've thought about starting something official like business off

864
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 2: on the side.

865
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: But I mean, yeah, like speak to that.

866
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 3: I mean that is a business in the eye there is.

867
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 3: In the United States, you can have a legal entity

868
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 3: of a business, but you also have a sole proprietorship.

869
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 3: And many of the businesses that people run in this

870
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 3: country are sole proprietorships, which means all the business revenue

871
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 3: and expenses live on your tax return. You didn't create

872
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 3: a legal entity for it. Even if you did, like

873
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 3: an LLC is not a tax entity. It's a legal entity.

874
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 3: But if you don't have a business, and you don't

875
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 3: have an EIM that you've created with the irs for

876
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 3: your business, you might still have a business.

877
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: If you have a thing.

878
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 3: That you think one day will generate revenue, that's a business.

879
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: Right.

880
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,720
Speaker 3: You do some freelance work, you've driven for Uber, you've

881
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 3: been a task grabit, you've sold some art at a

882
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 3: market like there's almost like if you've generated money from

883
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 3: almost any place except your W two employment job, you

884
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 3: probably have a business. And if you have a thing

885
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 3: that you think could become a business, your blog, your Instagram,

886
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 3: like I would say, show me a person who doesn't

887
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 3: do at least one thing some could be qualifying them

888
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 3: as a business, and I would be surprised. Yeah, So,

889
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 3: and you're right, A lot of the business cards not

890
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 3: only have better offers, great earning rates, and often lower

891
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 3: annual fees.

892
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: So there's a whole.

893
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 3: Lineup of business cards with you know, ninety to one

894
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 3: hundred thousand point sign of bonuses with zero to one

895
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 3: hundred dollars annual fees.

896
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 2: Is that typically because the issuers are the banks are

897
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 2: expecting you to run more expenses through it with it

898
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 2: being a potential Yeah, I mean I only fledged business.

899
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 2: And they're like, well, this holds the potential of you know,

900
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 2: of them racking up hundreds of thousands of dollars of expenses.

901
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 3: Businesses spend more money than people. Yeah, that's just the reality.

902
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 3: And so if if you might start a business, and

903
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 3: if bank can get your credit card business and that

904
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 3: business grows, you're gonna probably put a lot more through

905
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 3: your business than your personal I know, I do. I

906
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 3: probably I put a lot on both sets of cards,

907
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 3: personal and business. I don't know what the it's not

908
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 3: a problem, Like, it's not a legal problem. If you

909
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 3: put a personal expense on a business card or a

910
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 3: business expense on a personal card, you have to keep

911
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 3: track of it. So, like the argument for keeping them

912
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 3: completely separate is more of a bookkeeping and accounting argument,

913
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 3: sure than anything else. But people sometimes ask me like, Oh,

914
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 3: I got this business card, and I'm not sure if

915
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 3: I'm going to be able to spend the three thousand

916
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 3: dollars to get the bonus from this business. It's like, well,

917
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 3: you could put groceries personal expense on it and have

918
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,399
Speaker 3: the personal pay off the business card.

919
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 1: That's not the intent of the card, but it's something

920
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: that could happen. Yeah, what are the biggest misconceptions about

921
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: credit card rewards points? I don't know. Part of I

922
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: guess part of my hesitancy at times is I like simplicity,

923
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 1: and I'm like, how many websites am I going to

924
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: have to log into? How many account balances am I

925
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,280
Speaker 1: going to have to keep track of? How many credit

926
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: cards am I gonna have to have in my wallet?

927
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: That's one thing I guess for me is like, is

928
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: this just going to overcomplicate my life? Granted, if I

929
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: get a free trip to the Seychelles, I don't know,

930
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: maybe it's worth it, but tell me, what is that

931
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 1: A common of these myths, So one, how many cars

932
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: you need in your wallet? I would argue that my

933
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: wallet probably carries less credit cards than both of your wallets.

934
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: Could be wrong.

935
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 2: I got pretty minimal as well to more than two.

936
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 3: Okay, so with Apple pay, Google Pay, Samsung like, you

937
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 3: don't need a physical card for almost anything. I would

938
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 3: say that the only physical card I have. I keep

939
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 3: one card that's kind of blanket everything card just.

940
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: In case someplace doesn't take Apple pay or whatever yep.

941
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,800
Speaker 1: And then one card for dining.

942
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 3: Whatever my card is for dining I keep with me

943
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 3: because some restaurants in the US don't have to have

944
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 3: to pay. And then one card for everything. You know,

945
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 3: you gotta pay for the ticket to get I actually

946
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:24,280
Speaker 3: did that online for the mark.

947
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: Here in Atlanta.

948
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: Well, don't you also need to have your Costco membership

949
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 2: credit card on there as well in order to get

950
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 2: into the.

951
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: Digital Do they really? Yeah? But do you have that?

952
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: I do.

953
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 2: I don't use it though I don't even know exists.

954
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 2: I'm always carrying around because.

955
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 1: Of the the emergency you need to go to tattoo

956
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: it on his and he just lives up his shirt.

957
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 2: Why do they this is a side thing. Why do

958
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 2: they make you show your card to even get in?

959
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: If there? If you can't do wander around aimlessly, but

960
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: they don't want you to think you don't need a membership.

961
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 1: People walk into Costco, fill up their card, get all

962
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: the way to check and you can gotcha. I think

963
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: they shake at that point. It's probably an easy got

964
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: them your committee. It's gonna be sixty bucks exactly. Yeah.

965
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 3: Sorry, anyway, Yeah, you're talking about one misconcept. You don't

966
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 3: need to carry all these cards around. Yeah, that's not

967
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 3: that tough. I think knowing which one to use can

968
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 3: be tough if you were to jump from zero to sixteen, right,

969
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 3: But if you do it over time, I think that's okay.

970
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 3: There's an app called card Pointers that you know, you

971
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 3: kind of load in all your cards. They don't actually

972
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 3: sync to your bank, so you're not sharing any of

973
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 3: your personal information. You just say I have this card,

974
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 3: and then they say, great, this is your dining card,

975
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 3: this is your this card. So if you don't want

976
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 3: to figure that out yourself, their apps that will do

977
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 3: that for you.

978
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 1: Nice.

979
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 3: Let's see other misconceptions. The whole blackout date thing, I

980
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 3: think is something that kind of came up back when

981
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 3: airlines used to have really fixed prices. They'd say we

982
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 3: have miles flights and non milesflights. Now it's a little

983
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 3: bit more mysterious. Most of the airlines have these dynamic

984
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 3: pricing where they will give you a ticket with your

985
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 3: points on delta. Sometimes that ticket might be four hundred

986
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 3: thousand points for the same route, and then the next

987
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 3: day it might be fifteen thousand points. It's like you

988
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 3: have no idea what it's gonna be, which is a bummer,

989
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 3: but it means there's no blackout dates. But what has

990
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 3: come up in the last two or three years that

991
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 3: has made this so much easier is all of these

992
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,839
Speaker 3: both free and paid award search tools. So I'll give

993
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 3: you an example of one that I really like. Points

994
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 3: Yeah dot com y e ah, And if you go there,

995
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 3: they have this thing called Daydream Explorer, and they'll just

996
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 3: show you great deals with your points, like incredible deals.

997
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: I like that because then I can let let the

998
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,280
Speaker 1: deal drive where I go, instead of being like trying

999
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: to find the square peg in the round hole of

1000
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: like this date for that destination.

1001
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 3: Yes, now, to an extent, you don't want to necessarily

1002
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 3: let the points decide what you do. Like, is the

1003
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 3: trip deciding you? Are you deciding the trip? I'm not

1004
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 3: gonna go to Antarctica just because it's cheap, you know,

1005
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know Antarctic, but yeah. So from

1006
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 3: a finding a great way to use your points, generally

1007
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 3: you used to have to log into like seven or

1008
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 3: eight different websites search on all of them. Now there

1009
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 3: are a handful of tools. Another One's award tool, dot Com, Point,

1010
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 3: dot me, seats, dot arrow if anyone listening wants to

1011
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 3: kind of go down the rabbit hole, those are kind

1012
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 3: of four that I use regularly for different reasons. I

1013
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 3: did an episode going over like the ten of them.

1014
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 3: But Points, he has a great place to start, and

1015
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 3: you can find great options. I think if you're the

1016
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 3: kind of person that says, oh, my family and I

1017
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 3: we want to take a trip, and we want to

1018
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 3: go to Barcelona this summer, and we really want this

1019
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 3: one direct flight on this one day, you're gonna probably

1020
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 3: just need to get lucky for your Points to ever

1021
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 3: be a good deal. But if you're someone who says, gosh,

1022
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 3: this summer, we've got two months and we're kind of

1023
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 3: flexible to go somewhere in Europe and we're willing to

1024
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 3: change planes no problem. Now the day you look, it

1025
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 3: might not be there, but I'll set up an alert.

1026
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 3: And this is how we ended up going to Paris

1027
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 3: this past summer. We just set up an alert and

1028
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 3: we said, hey, we need five tickets. We want to

1029
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:49,919
Speaker 3: fly from San Francisco. We'll go to one of these

1030
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 3: six cities in Europe direct. We want to do it

1031
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 3: in business class, and we want it to be under

1032
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 3: I think it was like under eighty thousand points. We said,

1033
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 3: just let us know when you find something, and then

1034
00:43:58,160 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 3: it popped up. It was like we found something and

1035
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 3: we're at great well bucket.

1036
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 1: Yeah that was points.

1037
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was award tools alerts okay. Points Yeah also

1038
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 3: has alerts.

1039
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 1: Okay.

1040
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 3: But so if you're willing to be flexible, you will

1041
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 3: get an incredible value. If you're sitting on a few

1042
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,439
Speaker 3: hundred thousand points and you want to take a trip,

1043
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 3: and I say a few hundred thousand, which might seem

1044
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 3: like a lot, but everyone in this room has a

1045
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 3: lot of family members in our old family. If you're

1046
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 3: single by yourself, fifty thousand points can take you lots

1047
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 3: of plasure.

1048
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: But if you're talking five or six seats, it's like

1049
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: gets pricey real quick. It gets pricey.

1050
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 2: Chris, you want to loan me sixteen million points or

1051
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 2: maybe not next next time we take.

1052
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: A tur he's got plans for those. Yeah, yeah, now.

1053
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 2: It might actually be a good time to take a break.

1054
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 2: We've got more to get to. We're gonna talk more

1055
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 2: about ways that you can redeem those points for even

1056
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: more value.

1057
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: We'll get to that and more right after this. All right,

1058
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: we're back. We're still talking with our buddy Chris Hutchins,

1059
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: who's right here with us in person, which is so nice.

1060
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: When did you meet Chris? By the way, do you

1061
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: recall it was? It was at a fin con I

1062
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 1: want to say, yeah, mutual friends. And it was before

1063
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: you started the podcast. This was back when you had

1064
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: an entrepreneurial startup. You were getting off the ground in

1065
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 1: the midst of grove growth. Okay, I want to keep

1066
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: talking about points for just a second. I'm curious you

1067
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: talked about the sixteen but trillion points or whatever you have.

1068
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: That's like the number my son would use. But we've

1069
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: talked too about how over time your points become worthless. Right,

1070
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 1: there's inflation in the points game too, So how do

1071
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: you think about all the points you're holding? Does it

1072
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 1: stress you out? Are they garning a hole in your pocket?

1073
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: Are you like, I gotta go take some trips because

1074
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: these are going to be worth less next year and

1075
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 1: the year after.

1076
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 3: You are one hundred percent right, And if I could

1077
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 3: go back in time, I don't know if I would

1078
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 3: have done it differently. But I have more points than

1079
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 3: I am using each year. I don't have as much

1080
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 3: of a desire to do all these sign up bonuses,

1081
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:53,760
Speaker 3: so I will probably net burn points each year going forward,

1082
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 3: or at least that's what I keep telling myself. But

1083
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 3: I'm also we have two kids under five, and so

1084
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 3: the last five years there's just been no great opportunities

1085
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 3: to use lots and lots of points. This trip I

1086
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 3: talked about in Paris, we finally got the five tickets,

1087
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 3: and then we decided to cancel it because we're like,

1088
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 3: what are we doing taking a two and a four

1089
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 3: year old to Europe?

1090
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 1: Like, just this is if the deal's great. Even if

1091
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 1: the deal is great, it sounds like it's not a vacation. Yeah,

1092
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: And so I think that I would rather I know

1093
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: the value I can get from them, and even if

1094
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 1: I get a fraction of that a few years from now,

1095
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: it's probably better than cashing them out for you a

1096
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 1: penny a point.

1097
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 2: Would you take some some of the points off the

1098
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 2: table where you're like, all right, well, I know if

1099
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,240
Speaker 2: I take this off the table, now it's converted to cash,

1100
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 2: still have let's say eight million points sitting there.

1101
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 1: I think the trade off.

1102
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 3: I think, knowing what I can get from these points,

1103
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 3: like using them in ways that I would use them,

1104
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 3: I probably if I don't use them in the next

1105
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 3: seven years, then it would probably not be worth keeping

1106
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 3: them all because of how I think they'll devalue. Though,

1107
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 3: when this recent merger between Alaska and Hawaiian sparked a

1108
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 3: bunch of conversations in kind of regulatory agencies in the

1109
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 3: United States, which one of which was one stipulation towards

1110
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 3: Alaskan Hawaiian was if you are going to complete this merger,

1111
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 3: you cannot devalue each other's points. And then this kicked

1112
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:14,760
Speaker 3: off this thing where I want to say to DOJ

1113
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 3: but I can't remember. Sent a letter to United American

1114
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 3: Delta and said, you need to justify why your points

1115
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 3: are getting so devalued, as if it's like a cost

1116
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 3: on the consumer. And so realistically, I think at domestic

1117
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 3: US based airlines are probably going to be pretty hesitant

1118
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 3: in the next twelve to eighteen months to devalue any points,

1119
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 3: given everything that's happening about it now. But because the spotlight, yeah,

1120
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 3: they're they're asking why are you doing this thing?

1121
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 2: And because of Leena Colon fails, probably the f DC.

1122
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there is there is a bit of scrutiny

1123
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 3: towards airlines for devaluing points. So I don't think you're

1124
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 3: going to see as much of it in the next

1125
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 3: eighteen months. But obviously that's just my speculation. And I said,

1126
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 3: most of the points I use are in international carriers

1127
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,240
Speaker 3: and they're obviously not subject to any US oversight Noway,

1128
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 3: so who knows, But I think I think that when

1129
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 3: our kids. Right now, my wife and I both work

1130
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 3: for the podcast, and so we have flexibility. We're years

1131
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 3: away from our kids being a little bit easier to

1132
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 3: travel with, and so it wouldn't surprise me if in

1133
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 3: the next three years we took a couple summers and

1134
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 3: did some real fun, slower but farther travel, and boy,

1135
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 3: it would be nice to have all these points to

1136
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 3: do that.

1137
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 1: That's true. Okay, we're getting close to the end.

1138
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 2: Here, do you have any I guess final thoughts when

1139
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 2: it comes to just the average person out there who's

1140
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 2: looking to you know, they're looking at some of the

1141
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 2: different ways that they can maximize their their travel rewards.

1142
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 3: Chris, I think a lot of times you listen to

1143
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 3: people on this podcast, on my podcast, and you're like, gosh,

1144
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 3: those people are really dialed in. That seems so far

1145
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 3: from where I am today. And that's true, but that's

1146
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 3: not where I started. And so you know, this all

1147
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 3: started with let's get one card and use that sign

1148
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 3: up bonus to take one trip. And I was like, wow,

1149
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 3: I took a trip in college to Mexico that I

1150
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 3: couldn't otherwise afforded on American Airlines points that I got

1151
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,240
Speaker 3: from an American Airlines credit card opening is that literally

1152
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 3: true story? And I was like a freshman and I

1153
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 3: went with these like sophomores and juniors going to Mexico.

1154
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 1: I was like, this is the coolest trip ever, but

1155
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: I literally didn't have the money to take that trip.

1156
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, And all of a sudden, I was like, oh,

1157
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 3: now I get how it works, and I promise that

1158
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 3: this is the kind of thing where you do it

1159
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 3: once you see how it works. You go on that

1160
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 3: trip and then you're like, now I feel a little

1161
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 3: bit more comfortable getting a second card.

1162
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 1: I'm not the bug. Yeah, I'm not telling people to go.

1163
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 3: Out there and go open sixteen credit cards. That would

1164
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,839
Speaker 3: be aggressive. I don't even do that. These are many

1165
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 3: of these cards that I have. I've had for you know,

1166
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 3: some even a decade or longer. So I think you

1167
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 3: can get started slowly with the caveat that if you

1168
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 3: can't pay the cards off in full every month, this

1169
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 3: is not a game for you. Clear clear caveat, and

1170
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 3: just keep an eye out for when really exciting offers

1171
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 3: are coming out.

1172
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys talk about them on

1173
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: the show.

1174
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:54,839
Speaker 3: I sent out a newsletter each week, and if there's

1175
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 3: something exciting, I'll put it in there. If there's not,

1176
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:02,240
Speaker 3: I won't. And that' one way. But you guys probably

1177
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 3: have links to cards on the site also.

1178
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and we have a little tool if you

1179
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,280
Speaker 1: got to have the money dot com here the credit

1180
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: cards buttons. There's literally a thing where you can click

1181
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: and see which which credit card maybe makes the most

1182
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 1: sense right now, based on sign up bonus, based on

1183
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 1: how you spend, based on what sort of points you're

1184
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 1: trying to based on an airlines. Yeah, yeah, I think

1185
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: that's important to mention though, too, Matt or Chris, because

1186
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: in I think, like let's say, in the Real Estate

1187
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 1: Influencer game, there's so many people trying to sell something

1188
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: that's like way more than most people want or can

1189
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 1: get to can achieve. And I think the same thing

1190
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: is true in the travel rewards points game so much

1191
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,399
Speaker 1: at the time too, it's blown up through this massive thing.

1192
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: And I appreciate that kind of start small, ghost steady.

1193
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 1: You'll get somewhere great and you might not need to

1194
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 1: overcomplicate things in the process. You might just be able

1195
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,439
Speaker 1: to like crush, you know, in a small way, get

1196
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: some free trips and enjoy your life and enjoy the

1197
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: savings because of it.

1198
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and ask yourself, what what is your time otherwise

1199
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 3: spent doing? Because I'm giving this talk at the end

1200
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 3: of the week about the points of Miles game, is

1201
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 3: it worth it? Which is where we start of this conversation,

1202
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,919
Speaker 3: And depending on what your time is otherwise doing, maybe

1203
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 3: it's not worth it. Right if you're in the middle

1204
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 3: of building a business and that business could be you know,

1205
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 3: you could build a business that you know, your kids

1206
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 3: and their kids and their kids could could own and

1207
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,919
Speaker 3: work for and all this stuff. Well, that's probably gonna

1208
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 3: be way more impactful than getting a free trip this year.

1209
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 3: But if you're working at a job and you got

1210
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 3: a little time on the side, and you're not trying

1211
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 3: to start a new projects, and you're not dealing with

1212
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 3: you know, two to four kids running around the house,

1213
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 3: maybe this is the way you can plan for a

1214
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 3: free vacation. The easy version of this is not that hard, right,

1215
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 3: You guys are both, in some way, shape or form,

1216
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 3: playing the credit card game by just not using a

1217
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 3: debit card. Like, if there's one thing you can take away,

1218
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 3: it's use Like no matter which card you use, you

1219
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 3: can earn no less than two percent back, Like you

1220
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 3: should not be earning less than two percent back on

1221
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 3: everything you spend money on.

1222
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you want to go beyond there, and

1223
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:51,919
Speaker 1: now with we talk trash about debit cards all the time.

1224
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, now with the robinhood, maybe three percent you know

1225
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 3: on everything, So like that's your threshold you want to

1226
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 3: optimize beyond that? Great, you know, come talk to me

1227
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 3: or come find any of the content I'm making but

1228
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 3: you don't.

1229
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 1: That's okay too. I'm curious. So your your show's called

1230
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,919
Speaker 1: all the Hacks. You've talked to a lot of hackmeisters,

1231
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 1: that's what I'm calling. That's the term on your show.

1232
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: What is the thing maybe in all of those chats

1233
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: that you've had that you've taken away into your own

1234
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: personal life more than anything else.

1235
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 2: I would if okay, So this is this a way

1236
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 2: for him to plug his most impactful episode that's impacted

1237
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 2: him personally?

1238
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 1: Is that us? Okay?

1239
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 3: Oh, okay, that makes it easier because I know that

1240
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 3: one and I don't know if you've had this conversation

1241
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 3: on and just caution to anyone sensitive to inappropriate language.

1242
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 3: My guest in this episode was full of it. But

1243
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 3: Bill Perkins, Yeah, have you had Bill Perkins on this? No,

1244
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 3: we haven't, Okay, So Bill Perkins wrote this book, Die

1245
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,800
Speaker 3: with Zero. We've talked about the book and the concept,

1246
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 3: but we've never had them line. So for anyone who

1247
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 3: wants to go get a like a crash course in

1248
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 3: this concept, that episode was really really impactful for me

1249
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 3: because what's the point of all this money?

1250
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:56,879
Speaker 1: Right?

1251
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:00,360
Speaker 3: Like you can just earn money endlessly and you know,

1252
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:02,839
Speaker 3: I'm here in Atlanta for a conference for a bunch

1253
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:06,319
Speaker 3: of financial content creators, and we had a conversation this

1254
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 3: morning about like, oh, what new line of business are.

1255
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: You going to launch?

1256
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 3: How are you going to grow this? And I was like,

1257
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 3: at what point do we stop spending our time trying

1258
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 3: to make more money and start deciding how we want

1259
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 3: to spend our money and so in our time and

1260
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:24,439
Speaker 3: our time, And so the book's premise is just don't

1261
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 3: accumulate wealth for the soul's sake of accumulating wealth. Right,

1262
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,399
Speaker 3: there are times in life where it might make more

1263
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 3: sense to spend money than to earn more money or

1264
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 3: save that money. And especially when we're younger and we

1265
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 3: can go on these one mile walks to the office,

1266
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 3: we can go run around with all of our kids,

1267
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 3: like there are things that you might wish that you

1268
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 3: did or spend money on now twenty thirty forty years

1269
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 3: from now. And every conversation to go back to the beginning,

1270
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 3: you know, my relationship with my wife, it started with, Okay,

1271
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 3: here's how much money we have. What's our next target?

1272
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 3: What's our next target? Oh, we want to have this

1273
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 3: many you know, dollars in the bank. What net worth

1274
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 3: goal do we have? And after that conversation we went

1275
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 3: to one of these like catchups with my wife. She

1276
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 3: was like, this is the target and I was like,

1277
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 3: i don't care about the target anymore, Like I'm no

1278
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 3: longer focused on getting to a place, because maybe the

1279
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:14,439
Speaker 3: answer is we should actually not save money this year.

1280
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 3: Maybe there's an opportunity to do something that's.

1281
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 2: Literally what I'm doing this year. It's not saving money, Yes,

1282
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 2: I mean I'm saving money. I'm not investing it though,

1283
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 2: because of other goals. Yeah, there's bigger, larger, more impactful,

1284
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 2: loftier goals.

1285
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 1: To Matt loss and focus on all his treat credit.

1286
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,359
Speaker 3: When you said that, and I think I left that

1287
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 3: conversation with Bill Perkins and I was like, I have

1288
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 3: a completely different mindset on how I want to use

1289
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 3: my money in my life for the rest of my life,

1290
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 3: which very rarely happens in a moment.

1291
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: And so I wass a powerful message. I'd say, in.

1292
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 3: Almost two hundred episodes, I've probably picked up hundreds of

1293
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 3: tactics that I use all the time for various things,

1294
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 3: but that one kind of hit me like a freight

1295
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 3: truck in terms of the way I think about money

1296
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:53,760
Speaker 3: and how I want to use money.

1297
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 2: There's a paradigm shifting kind of conversation as opposed to, oh,

1298
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,439
Speaker 2: here's another new tip, yes and the tips.

1299
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1300
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:02,800
Speaker 3: I love saving money. I love learning how to optimize

1301
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 3: everything in my life. Like you guys know this.

1302
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: The guys, I've always got some random, crazy thing I'm

1303
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:11,839
Speaker 1: doing to try to eat better, nutrition, you know, exercise,

1304
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 1: health career points, miles, investing, Like I love all of it,

1305
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, at the end

1306
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 1: of the day, it doesn't matter. But I'll let's day.

1307
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 3: We all have children, and it's like, what is the

1308
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 3: whole purpose of life?

1309
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: And I'm not going to go down that rabbit.

1310
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 3: Hole here, but you start going down that pathway, yeah,

1311
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:31,959
Speaker 3: you start thinking like how do I want to spend

1312
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 3: my time? And you know, you probably had this conversation

1313
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 3: here about people asking if they'd trade places with Warren Buffett,

1314
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 3: and it's like, well, no, no one wants to trade

1315
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:42,359
Speaker 3: places to Warren Buffett, even though he has all his money,

1316
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 3: because look how old he is. He's there, and look

1317
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 3: at the cost it took him to get there. Like

1318
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 3: my understanding is he didn't have a great relationship with

1319
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 3: his kids and his wife. Like someone asked me, would

1320
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 3: you trade places with and you can insert almost anyone

1321
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,879
Speaker 3: and if you look at what that person also has

1322
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 3: in their life, right, not just you can't trade places

1323
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,959
Speaker 3: with someone and just get one aspect. So think about

1324
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 3: it anytime you get jealous, anytime you get jealous of anyone.

1325
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 3: And this happens a lot with money. I've been there

1326
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 3: for sure, dozens of times. But ask yourself, oh gosh,

1327
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 3: I'm so jealous this friend of mine just you know,

1328
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 3: worked at this company, hit this lottery ticket, got all

1329
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 3: this money. But if I'm jealous of them, I have

1330
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 3: to be jealous of the whole them, And very rarely

1331
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 3: am I actually.

1332
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: Jealous of it.

1333
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 3: Together, the toll on their family, you know, where they

1334
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 3: had to live, what they had to do, the sacrifices

1335
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 3: they made. And so I just learned to kind of

1336
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 3: appreciate where I am and want what I can do,

1337
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 3: and not want that much more. And not to say

1338
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 3: I don't want to be ambitious. I want to go

1339
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 3: do amazing things and build crazy projects.

1340
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 2: It's a hard balance to strike though, Yeah, you know,

1341
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 2: like and I think we are all here trying to

1342
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 2: achieve that So how much of that sort of lifestyle

1343
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 2: philosophical shift do you think had to do with y'all

1344
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 2: having kids.

1345
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:55,279
Speaker 1: I think a good part of it had to do

1346
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 1: with that. I think a good part of it had to.

1347
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 3: Do with this natural evolution in life where this other conversation,

1348
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 3: if you asked me for two, would be a conversation

1349
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:07,279
Speaker 3: I have with a kind named Arthur Brooks who's a

1350
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 3: professor on happiness, and we had talked about how when

1351
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 3: you're young, there's these two curves and I'm going to

1352
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 3: blank on them and they'll come back in one second,

1353
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 3: where these two mindsets where you have different types of

1354
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 3: work throughout your life, and you have this jump from

1355
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 3: when you're young. It's all on its intelligence, crystallized and

1356
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 3: fluid intelligence.

1357
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: I said it would come I knew it would come back.

1358
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 3: So when you're young, you have this fluid intelligence and

1359
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 3: you can learn things, and you can try things out,

1360
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 3: and you can just grind it out. And then there's

1361
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 3: this happiness curve where when you get older and you know,

1362
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 3: I'm forty, like it's starting to get there, you build

1363
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 3: your career around crystallized intelligence, which is all the things

1364
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 3: you've learned, the knowledge you have, you might be a

1365
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:56,479
Speaker 3: better manager or delegator than just a grinder. And people

1366
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 3: who don't make that jump end up being really unhappy

1367
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 3: in life because they're still trying to grind it out

1368
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 3: like they did in their twenties. But that just doesn't

1369
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 3: work with our brains when we're in our forties and

1370
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 3: and for some people maybe it's fifties sixties. You know,

1371
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 3: that's not the main point. But I think I got

1372
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 3: to this point in life where it's like, wow, I've

1373
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 3: seen a lot of things. I've gotten a little older,

1374
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 3: and I've started to really reflect on what I want.

1375
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 3: By the way, if you look at like life expectancy,

1376
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 3: by the time you get to forty, you're like, Okay,

1377
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 3: I gotta start like thinking about what I want to

1378
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 3: do in life.

1379
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 1: Second half of life. Yeah, yeah, start looking down the road.

1380
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: You know.

1381
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 3: We talked about Brian Johnson, maybe waalda forever and I'm

1382
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 3: the youngest I've ever been.

1383
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 1: But at least in a vat of goo somehow. Yeah.

1384
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 3: But I think it's somewhere between kids and just realizing

1385
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:42,000
Speaker 3: that like I'm not a kid anymore, Like this is life,

1386
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 3: Like there's only one of them and We're a decent

1387
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:46,600
Speaker 3: way through it, and I better be doing what I

1388
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 3: care about. And it's just so hard to get caught

1389
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 3: up chasing net worth goals and you know, earnings goals.

1390
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 3: And if you've traveled at all anywhere, you know internationally,

1391
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 3: you've probably met people who have way less than you

1392
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 3: and you're like, wow, these people so happy. It's like,

1393
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 3: there's just so much more to life. And the more

1394
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 3: I talk to people, the more I learned that, and

1395
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 3: the more I'm able to change my mindset, which is

1396
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 3: not a hack like that, like no, which is part

1397
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:11,560
Speaker 3: of the reason I don't like the title.

1398
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 1: That's a slow roll, that's a slow burn, and that's

1399
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: an intentional thing that takes a lot of time, intentionality, discussion,

1400
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 1: I think, and introspection, and a lot of people they

1401
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 1: are continuing along just the pure money metric because they

1402
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 1: haven't taken the time to think about those deeper realities

1403
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: of life and what they want out of life. And

1404
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 1: I feel like we could this could be a.

1405
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 2: Whole nother podcast conversation shifting gears more philosophical side of things.

1406
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of things we care about, Matt, we care

1407
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: about craft beer, and craft beer goes beyond just satisfaction

1408
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 1: of my taste buds. It warms my soul. And Chris,

1409
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 1: you you enjoyed this beer with us? This was called

1410
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: flash Cat. It's an imperial IPA by Creature Comforts. You're

1411
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 1: not a huge IPA fan, But what were your thoughts

1412
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 1: on this one?

1413
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 3: I was surprised. A lot of IPAs for me are

1414
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 3: just like too much. Yeah, this one was I would

1415
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 3: drink this thought. Would you really look at that a

1416
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 3: ringing endorsement?

1417
00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: See?

1418
00:59:58,280 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 2: I thought Joel was putting words in your mouth because

1419
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 2: he's said, you enjoyed this one with us?

1420
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 1: Right, Chris? I would it? Yeah?

1421
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 2: This West Coast ip it's an imperial so it's a

1422
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 2: little higher in the ABV. But yeah, did I say

1423
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 2: West coast? It takes like a West coast. It takes

1424
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 2: like a West Coast.

1425
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so to me it was like the pithy

1426
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 1: greapefruit bitterness going on. Yeah, but I guess I don't know,

1427
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: not over the top. I don't have a lot of

1428
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: ibas to compare it to.

1429
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, glad you're able to join us here in

1430
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 2: the studio, Chris, can you tell us where our listeners

1431
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 2: can go to find out more about you, more about

1432
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 2: your podcasts and all the stuff you're creating.

1433
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, podcasts called All the Hacks. If you're listening to this,

1434
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 3: you're in a place where you can search for it. Yep,

1435
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 3: I'm Chris Hutchins. You can find me searching All the

1436
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 3: Hacks or Chris Sutchions anywhere on the internet. Email and

1437
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 3: podcasts are the best two places to see what I'm

1438
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 3: doing each week.

1439
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 1: Perfect. We'll link to all that stuff in the show

1440
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 1: notes too. Up on our side, I have to money

1441
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 1: dot Com. That's gonna do it for this episode until

1442
01:00:50,600 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 1: next time. Best Friends out and best Friends Out. That's

1443
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 1: gonna make a joke about it. I want to be

1444
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 1: your best friend. I