1 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: This is Gavin Newsom. 2 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 2: I'm still learning the roads here. 3 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: That's good. And by the way, you're in Springfield right now. 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 2: I wasn't. I just got back this morning. I drove 5 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: back and today DHS announced sixty days and they're gone 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 2: for the Haitians. So the families that I met with, 7 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:32,279 Speaker 2: who are you know, law abiding? They're working, they fill 8 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 2: out W two's, they pay taxes, they got Social Security numbers. 9 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 2: The mayor wants them, the governor wants them, the city 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 2: council wants some business, church leaders. Trump wants them out 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 2: based on a slander of them. And they have sixty 12 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: days and they're hiding in their homes. Governor, they are 13 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 2: hiding in their homes. And the baby's twelve hundred babies 14 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 2: born since they've been here. Now the spring Court throws 15 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 2: their fate into doubt. 16 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 3: It's, you know, good for you forgive me to selfishly 17 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 3: stadi it. It's so often and it's so interesting just 18 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 3: from your prism. Now this this sort of new alignment 19 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 3: with with where you're where, what you're doing. UH, that 20 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 3: you're going back to a story that everybody's moved on from. 21 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 3: UH that was weaponized in a rubric of debates and 22 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 3: a political campaign. Uh, and now reminding everybody of the 23 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 3: human side of all this and the impacts. But it's 24 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 3: what you just said about the mayor and the governor 25 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 3: and the community. Uh, this only reinforces just the absurdity 26 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 3: of this moment. 27 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, and now you're uh fighting back in a really 28 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: interesting way. I read the suit, I read the claims 29 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: a bunch of questions. But you're suing Fox News. I 30 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: assume everybody's watching at this point, and there'll be more coming, 31 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: know that. 32 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 3: So why what's your beef and not well beef is 33 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 3: you know? You can't maliciously slander someone. You can't defame 34 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 3: someone by altering facts, editing facts, no, doing that without 35 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 3: being held to some higher level of ethics and accountability. 36 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: I have no problem. 37 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 3: Look, we all know Fox is a propaganda network, but 38 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 3: it's under the guys of being a news organization, being journalists, 39 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 3: and there's rules of engagement as it relates to that. 40 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 3: And you know, he Donald Trump and I had a 41 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 3: phone call on June sixth, early morning, maybe June seventh. 42 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 3: Four days later, Donald Trump lied and said, well, we 43 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 3: talked the day before. I highlighted the fact we never 44 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 3: talked the day before Fox decided to cover up for 45 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 3: the president's lie. Uh and they knowingly did that in 46 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 3: a way that defamed and I just think we need 47 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 3: to call that out now. It's it's one thing to 48 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 3: be on the receiving en and I've been on the 49 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 3: receiving that Fox for years and years and years. But 50 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 3: there's red lines, and on this red line that crossed it. 51 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 3: And I want a simple apology. I'm not looking. You know, 52 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 3: you've got to file these in your your own, your 53 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 3: own individual accord. It's you know, the malice is a 54 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 3: high bar. But they're dead to write on this. I mean, 55 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 3: they had a Chiron who said Gavin Lye Trump call. 56 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 3: I mean, so they've got to apologize that they don't. 57 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,399 Speaker 3: They need to be held to account and we want 58 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 3: to seek damages. 59 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 2: Right, you're asking for an apology. And seven hundred and 60 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 2: eighty seven million dollars you heard. 61 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 3: That number before. Where'd that number come from? That's the 62 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 3: that's the dominion lawsuit. And this they reacted to the 63 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 3: dominion lawsuit with a press release that they put out 64 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 3: against this lawsuit that almost was you know, you almost 65 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 3: could have cut and pasted it. And they paid a 66 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 3: big price there. But what they did do is they 67 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 3: didn't fundamentally change their practices. And that's the point. That's 68 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 3: the point of this lawsuit. This money doesn't come to me, 69 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 3: it's not about any of that. This this is charity 70 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 3: goes someplace else. But this is about changing these practices, 71 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 3: these unethical practices. 72 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: And you know, I don't do this lightly. 73 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 3: I got a bunch of calls there, this is actually 74 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 3: why this happened. 75 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: You know, I watched Jesse Waters. I watched John Roberts. 76 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 3: I mean, that's just straight news John and Jesse tries 77 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 3: to sort herself in that respect. And I got a 78 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 3: bunch of calls, said, why'd you lie about the Trump 79 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 3: call from friends? I said, what do you mean I 80 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 3: lied about it? Just making that up and say, well, 81 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 3: that's not what I'm seeing on Fox. And so I'm 82 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 3: constantly battling that. I'm like, this is doing damage. It 83 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 3: was not just on the sixty five million people and 84 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 3: watched Fox and Fox Business, but hundreds of millions on 85 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 3: social and it was weaponized on the right and it 86 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 3: started to bleed it and and and so for me, 87 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 3: that crossed the line. 88 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: And that's why I'm pushing back. 89 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 2: That is the way that's the system works on that side. Look, 90 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: I was obviously in corporate legacy, mainstream media, whatever you want. 91 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: I had a great career, loved it. I have nothing 92 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 2: bad to say about my colleagues. But it's like they're 93 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 2: fighting or they're trying to tell the truth blindfolded to 94 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: the reality of what's happening to the truth, is what 95 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 2: I would say. It was frustrating being in there because 96 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 2: there Trump has this power of bending reality for people, 97 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 2: and Fox's sister's whole ecosphere assists him in doing that, 98 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 2: and kind of both sides are the kind of vocabulary 99 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: that you can use is very difficult to serve the 100 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 2: people with still. 101 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 3: And it's it's it's look, it's and that's not news 102 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 3: worthy in and of itself. What you said, it's spot on, 103 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 3: but it's really eroding trust and it's hurting our democracy, 104 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 3: and it's it's code read. And you think Fox, who's 105 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 3: just the most blatant and you know, I mean just 106 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 3: notoriously the most blatant as it relates to being a 107 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 3: propaganda network, would have learned that lesson with that seven 108 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 3: and eighty seven million dollars settlement. 109 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: With dominion. 110 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 3: But they haven't, and they continue to cover up for 111 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 3: the folly and the lies of this president. And it's 112 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 3: one thing for the president to lie. It did it 113 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 3: just a few months moments ago, quite literally about water 114 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 3: in California. 115 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: Again any's obsession. But you don't cover up for that. 116 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 3: You don't willfully and knowingly and maliciously cover up for 117 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 3: those lies, edit information and alter what you present as 118 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,559 Speaker 3: fact and defame people. 119 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 1: You can't do that. 120 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 2: Is there something about the past few months in this 121 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 2: second term? And I don't want to post facto rationalize 122 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 2: what I did. I wasn't thinking it's too much. It's 123 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 2: the straw that breaks the camel's back. I thought I 124 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 2: was describing accurately a public figure in America. 125 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: By the way, a few words rung more true than 126 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: those words. Forgive me. That's just my editorial opinion, all right. 127 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 2: And I actually was worse is it wasn't like a 128 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 2: drug tweet. I actually looked at it and I read it. Yeah, 129 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 2: that's true, it's sin. There you go. But my point 130 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 2: is that there is this hammer blow, this daily bludgeoning 131 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 2: of the body politic with cruelty, right and and and 132 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 2: lies at every point demoralizes people. And I've seen you 133 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 2: over the past couple of years. It seems one of 134 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 2: things I really respected and enjoyed you doing was crossing 135 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 2: over going to Fox and and debating Hannity, you know, 136 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 2: taking them out of having a good debate with DeSantis. 137 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 2: People appreciate that. But there is there something about the 138 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 2: past few months and the Democrats crying out for someone 139 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: to do something that is part of the background to 140 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 2: you pulling what is in some ways it's done right 141 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 2: this lawsuit. 142 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, look back to lawsuit. 143 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 3: But let me go back almost three years ago today, 144 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 3: because we just celebrated and not celebrated. We lamented the 145 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 3: anniversary of the Dobbs decision three years ago. And I 146 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 3: remember being a playing parata in southern California in La say, 147 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 3: where the hell is my party? And it was an 148 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 3: indictment of individual leaders. It wasn't even indictment of the 149 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 3: you know, the DNC. It was sort of, frankly, it 150 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 3: was dting on my own lack of accountability. At this 151 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 3: moment that the other side was dominating the narrative on 152 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 3: CRT and DEI ESG. They were censoring and historic facts, 153 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 3: rewriting history quite literally rewriting social studies books and places 154 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 3: like Florida. And I was watching the weaponization and the 155 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:33,199 Speaker 3: propaganda coming from these networks, not just Fox One, American News, Newsmax, 156 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 3: and how they're able to shapeshift the conversation, and how 157 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 3: my party, the Democratic Party, was consistently on the defense. 158 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 3: And that's where I woke up. I said, you know what, 159 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 3: the world we're living in has happened on our watch. 160 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 3: Society becomes how we behave take some responsibility, man, and 161 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 3: so I decided I needed to actually not just complain 162 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 3: about something. I needed to do something. And that's when 163 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 3: I started to reach out and went on Fox and 164 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 3: I had Hannity. 165 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: I said, let's go. 166 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 3: Let's go into Ronald Reagan's old building, the old governor's mansion, 167 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 3: where Reagan was ask me anything you want. Let's do 168 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 3: an unedited hour hour and a half interview. We did that, 169 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 3: and I started to go back on Fox, and that's 170 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 3: why I ended up. And I appreciate your reference to 171 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 3: the debate with Rondo Santis, and so I think that's healthy. 172 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: I thought it was a point. 173 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 3: A lot of my members of my party were critical, saying, 174 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 3: why do you even indulge those guys. 175 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: It's all fake news, et cetera. 176 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 3: But I thought it's important to meet people where they are, 177 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 3: so I sail that in the context of this lawsuit, 178 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 3: I have a high threshold for the bullshit on Fox. 179 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: Is the point, all right. 180 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 3: I wouldn't do this unless I felt they really did 181 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 3: cross the line, and I don't. It's not about money 182 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 3: for a nonprofit, it's about accountability. I really did hope 183 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 3: and expect after that dominion lawsuit they would stop, but 184 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 3: they haven't. And right now, if you're covering up for 185 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 3: the cruelty, God bless you, that's the right word, not 186 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 3: just the chaos, for the abject lies in mistruths of 187 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,439 Speaker 3: this administration, you can't lay claim to being a news 188 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 3: organization any longer. That's what this lawsuits about. 189 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 2: I think that is exactly the conundrum that my former 190 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 2: colleagues and across the establishment legacy, corporate, mainstream media, whatever 191 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 2: you want to call it. They are doing their best. 192 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 2: I love my respect them. They're doing great work. But 193 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 2: there's something that's changed in this moment. It is a 194 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 2: moment in history where it requires a different response. I 195 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 2: think I'm discovering that in myself, and I do think 196 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 2: that I wonder if one of the things you're trying 197 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 2: to do is give heart to people who see this, 198 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 2: who are bludgeoned and either on the sidelines, I don't 199 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 2: want to get involved. They may have even voted for 200 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 2: Trump don't like it, or certainly the people who didn't 201 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 2: vot for Trump feeling in despair. He is all powerful, 202 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 2: controlling the narrative, and now just bring the hammer down 203 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 2: in every walk of life. 204 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 3: I wish I could show you a video I just 205 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 3: got right before we went on from a friend of 206 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 3: mine down in San Diego. In this young woman torn 207 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 3: away from her car by mass men, screaming and yelling, 208 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 3: turns out to be a housekeeper at a well known 209 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 3: hotel in southern California, a member of Local eleven unit 210 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 3: here just ripped off the streets by mass men. This 211 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 3: is the moral moment. This is happening in America. Have 212 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 3: five thousand federalized troops, the US military in the streets 213 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 3: of Los Angeles in twenty twenty five. Today, I mean, 214 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 3: this is to your point, things have radically changed. You 215 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 3: can't operate with the old constructs people talk about. I heard, 216 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 3: you know, there's been some punitry. You know, we're moving 217 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 3: towards authoritarianism, and it depends which lens, which set of 218 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 3: eyes you have. How About to that young woman on 219 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 3: the street, We're already there. For some of us that 220 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 3: have more privileged we're not there yet. And so I 221 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,839 Speaker 3: want to speak for those folks to your point. Yeah, 222 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 3: for things to change, you've got to change. It's not 223 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 3: what happens, it's how we respond to what happens. And 224 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 3: I need to be held to a higher level of accountability. 225 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 3: And so I appreciate the frame of your question. Yeah, 226 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 3: I've changed. I've changed. 227 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: I've changed when those National Guard were federalized. 228 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 3: I changed when I started to see members of our 229 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 3: community torn asunder, terrorized by these raids, and people in 230 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 3: masks and things that I've never thought i'd see in 231 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 3: this country, to see people deported, disappeared. I was with 232 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 3: a twelve year old boy, same age as of my kids, crying, 233 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 3: who lost his mother and father they disappeared. They went 234 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 3: to the same job site they've been going to twenty 235 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 3: years in Ox's, California, and he had no one, he 236 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 3: didn't even know get back in his own house. That's 237 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 3: Trump's America. So when you say those words terry about 238 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 3: Stephen Miller, you were goddamn right. Excuse my language, you 239 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 3: were right, and he is wrong, and it's wrong for 240 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 3: us to operate under the old rules. Forgive me for 241 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 3: being intense about this, but a lot of people are 242 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 3: counting us to do more and be better. 243 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: I respect that intensity. That's where we have to find 244 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 2: our courage, right, we have to find it there, and 245 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 2: I appreciate what you're saying about that. I will say that, 246 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 2: having just gotten back one of the things, if you 247 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 2: don't mind a personal note, the outpouring of people signing 248 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 2: up for this and actually very very kind and genuine 249 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 2: support for some I didn't, you know, from one perspective, 250 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 2: really screwed up. 251 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: Right. 252 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 2: This is not the way I'd recommend leaving a job. 253 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 2: But as I say, I'm kind of exhilarated and excited 254 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 2: by the possibilities and by the work ahead, the good 255 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,839 Speaker 2: work that you're talking about ahead. But I do feel 256 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 2: that it became for a lot of people a galvanizing moment, right, 257 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 2: They a sense that, Okay, whatever you think of what 258 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 2: he said, including some of my neighbors, I live in 259 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 2: a kind of a purple neighborhood in Frederick, Maryland, closer 260 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 2: to Antietam and Gettysburg. Then at Washington, d C. And 261 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 2: a lot of my neighbors voted for Trump, and one 262 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 2: of them in particular, you know, very strong for Trump. 263 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 2: He told my wife, he said, tell your husband, you know, 264 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 2: I really respect him. I though what he did was brave. 265 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, look at us at his social feeds. 266 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 2: He loves that. It was very encouraging for me. I 267 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 2: feel very encouraged. But the point of it is, I 268 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 2: think the point the cruelty is the point to dishearten people, 269 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 2: make them amenable to more and more authority. And just 270 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 2: one more note. In Springfield, one of the young Asian 271 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: men that I spoke with, he had a brain tumor 272 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 2: in Haiti. They couldn't help him. Came to the United States, 273 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 2: started working, got on Obamacare, got the brain tumor operated on. 274 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 2: But they had to remove his pituitary glands. So he 275 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 2: needs to regulate his hormonal system. If they send him back, 276 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 2: he'll die. And he said, I don't go out of 277 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 2: the house because anyone can wear a mask. Memories from Haiti. 278 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 2: Anyone can wear a mask and put ice on them. 279 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 2: I don't know if they're kidnappers or if they're the law. 280 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: So there are. 281 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 2: Thousands of people hiding in their homes from the federal 282 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 2: government who are were until a couple of weeks ago 283 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 2: here lawfully good employees. You go ask the businesses down there, 284 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 2: the dole plant, automachining plants. You ask the mayor and 285 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 2: the city council. These are good people, the vast majority 286 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 2: of them, and they're hiding from our government. That's to 287 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 2: me a disgrace. It is a disgrace. 288 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 3: But you've reinforced this point, and I want to amplify 289 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 3: the point I think you're making that the cruelty is 290 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 3: the point, but the point being that that demoralization just 291 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 3: completely neuters us, and we become numb, and we no 292 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 3: longer are active. We're inert, and that is exactly what 293 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 3: he wants. He wants to crush us into submission. He 294 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 3: wants to overwhelm. The shock in eyes about overwhelming us, 295 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 3: and so we cannot maintain neutrality at this time. It 296 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 3: was Dante said, the hottest place in Hell is reserved 297 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 3: at a time more christis for those that maintain their neutrality. 298 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 3: This is not a neutral moment, and I think, look, 299 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 3: this lawsuit, I hope represents just an expression of that 300 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 3: I want both to know we're not just going to 301 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 3: roll over, that We're gonna have people's backs, people that 302 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 3: may not have a voice, people that may not have 303 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 3: the privilege that you and I have to even be 304 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 3: able to go on substack, to be able to have 305 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 3: this conversation, to reach a few people that are kind 306 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 3: enough to take the time to listen to know that 307 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 3: they matter and we care. There are people out there 308 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 3: that give a damn. You gave a damn to go 309 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 3: back to Springfield and checking with people that that that 310 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 3: were used purely as a political you know, political fodder, 311 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 3: that were used as subjects, not human beings, and to 312 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 3: humanize them. Uh, that's important, and it's more important now 313 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 3: than ever. So Look, I think it's in that same 314 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 3: spirit that that that we initiated this lawsuit and same 315 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 3: spirit to which we're pushing back against, uh, these authoritarian 316 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 3: and tendencies and uh and in Trump. 317 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 2: Isn't can I ask you before before we move on 318 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 2: the the New York May Old primary, mc donnie winning 319 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 2: winning and and Cuomo going down to defeat a lot 320 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 2: of Democrats are seeing that as as a signal of 321 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 2: a new direction. A lot of other Democrats are saying 322 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 2: that this is maybe New York City, but it would 323 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 2: not work in other parts of the country. How do 324 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 2: you read that politically? 325 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 3: I think my my experience in this respect is we 326 00:17:55,200 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 3: tend to overstate in the short term lessons learned, or 327 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 3: we extrapolite the lessons that frankly just reinforce our own 328 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 3: pre existing biases of. 329 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: What this means or what this doesn't mean. 330 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 3: But to the credit of man Donnie, this was a 331 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 3: hell of a campaign. I mean, you know, you could 332 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 3: distinguish the message from the messenger, but his ability to 333 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 3: galvanize and to organize, to use the tools of technology. 334 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: And new media to create a. 335 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 3: I thought, a personality that even if you disagreed, you 336 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 3: kind of had a little more trust and was rather extraordinary. 337 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 3: And so from that perspective, in the power of emulation 338 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 3: success leaves some clues. Now what this means ultimately for 339 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 3: the Democratic Party, was this really apprediation of Cuomo came 340 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 3: out with a lot of baggage. Was this more parochial 341 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 3: politics in the context of just one American city, though 342 00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 3: the largest is to be to turn. 343 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 1: But I think it's a one thing. 344 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 3: I think it is is a giant wake up call 345 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 3: that democracy is still alive and well bottom up. And 346 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 3: if you're looking at this for the prism, I think 347 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 3: particularly U Speaker Johnson, you're recognizing you got eighteen months left. 348 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 3: And if you're looking at this, as Susie Wiles, the 349 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 3: chief of staff of the President, your administration ends in 350 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 3: eighteen months. We're going to take back the house. Where 351 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 3: you're seeing young people reawaken here. They haven't gotten the 352 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 3: message about the cynicism yet, they're still engaged. And for me, 353 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 3: that was maybe the most compelling takeaway from what occurred 354 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 3: last week. 355 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 2: Well that that is a great positive, hardening end because 356 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,199 Speaker 2: people people are looking for something to look forward to, 357 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 2: the good hard work of saving the country, right. 358 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 3: Saving the kind of look at you know, if it's 359 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 3: what cannot overstate, that's that's simple statement that you just 360 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:00,719 Speaker 3: made Supreme Court, Maate. 361 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: It more challenging today. 362 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 3: Look, we just cannot live in the divided States of 363 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 3: America any longer. Uh you know, I'm sort of paraphrasing 364 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 3: Bill play. You can't divorce is not an option. We're 365 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 3: going to have to find the terms of the future 366 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 3: to live and advance together across our differences. And and 367 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 3: and I think you know, one thing people need to 368 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 3: see is other people's courage. And and for those people 369 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 3: that turned out and voted, uh, that's that's an active citizenship. 370 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 3: And the office of citizen right now is the most 371 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 3: important office of all. And and I think for all 372 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 3: the assaults on institutions, that's the institution that will endure. 373 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: And that's what gives me hope and optimism. 374 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 2: All right, well, great, thanks, thanks very much. It was 375 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 2: just fun. 376 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: This was fun. 377 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 3: Terry, thanks for having me on and Congress on everything. 378 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 3: Keep doing what you're doing. 379 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, good luck, good luck in court. 380 00:20:54,520 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: Thank you with them