WEBVTT - Episode 38: Putter Fitting Kinetics (Feat. Dr. Sasho MacKenzie) 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:01.240 The guys from Ping. 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:03.920 They've kind of showed me how much the equipment matters. 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:05.840 I just love that I can hit any shot. 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:07.520 I kind of want we're gonna be able to tell 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:09.560 some fun stories about what goes on here to help 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:10.640 golfers play better golf. 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:14.000 Welcome back to the Pink Proving Grounds Podcast. I'm shape 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:16.279 Bag and that's Marty Jersey. Marty, how we doing today? 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.520 We're gonna talk a little putting. I'm struggled with my putting. 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:22.560 I can't make anything right now. I need the advice 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:23.240 for our guests. 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:26.160 Yeah, there's a lot to putting. I think Sashow has 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:29.680 been doctor Sasha mackenzie has helped us in a number 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:34.120 of ways as an engineering brand ambassador for US, but 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:37.559 he's spent going deep on putting. How do you make 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:40.120 more putts? How do you miss less putts? And what 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:42.959 is the causal reason? I think that's where we want 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:46.519 to dive really deep with Sashow today of why you 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.639 miss putts and then tie it together to putter fitting Shane, 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:51.640 because that's kind of the you know, we want to 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:53.640 kind of tie all these different pieces together. 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:56.279 Sasho, I'm not making a lot of putts what am 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:58.720 I doing wrong? I mean, without looking at me, without 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:01.480 seeing my stroke, without saying the way I'm hitting it, 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:05.920 What is what am I most likely doing wrong? To 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.440 where I'm to Marty's point, either missing more pods, putts 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:10.760 are not making as many as I like. 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:16.040 Yeah, Number one reasons probably green reading. So that's a 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:19.240 massive chunk. At least fifty percent of miss putts are 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:23.480 due to green reading errors. Let's assume we're talking about 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:25.560 makeable putts, you know, like twelve feet and in kind 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.679 of kind of thing. Then it's probably your speed control. 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:30.920 If you improve that, you're gonna sink some more putts. 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:35.280 Then probably face angle control, so face angle variability, speed 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:39.000 club head speed variability, putter it speed variability, and then 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:41.800 it's then it's a steep drop off to things like 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:45.600 where the ball is hitting on the face and path, 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:49.560 but those those top three green reading is the biggest, 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:53.160 Then speed control and then face angle variability. 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:56.000 Esasho, how do you practice green reading? I mean, you know, 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:58.160 I mean obviously we've got green reading books and things 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:00.800 like that, But how does someone go out and actually 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:02.880 work on that part of the game. Because it makes 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:05.480 sense to someone like me to work on path and 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:07.880 to work on speed and things like that, but to 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:10.120 go out and actually perfect my ability to read a 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:12.720 green seems relatively daunting for me. 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:16.480 Yeah. Well, then the number one thing that most people 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.640 can do that they're not doing is and this is 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.799 when I work with players, especially Mini tour players are 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:24.280 really good college kids. I asked them, how many different 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:26.360 putts do you see in your putting sessions? So you're 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.120 practically putting for an hour, how many different putts are 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.760 you hitting, like different starting positions to different holes. A 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:34.960 lot of them don't really know the answer, but a 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:38.400 lot of times it's like, well six, you know. So 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:43.840 the more experience you can have hitting different putts, so 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:45.720 you have to actually assess what are you going to 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.560 do and then consciously thinking about what happened. That's a 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:53.000 big thing is that most people do not know if 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.520 they've misread the putt or if they've miss executed on 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.320 the putts, so then there's no learning. So you need 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:02.480 to see a lot of different putts, and especially putts 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:04.840 where your ability to read the green matters and you 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:07.799 can discern it based on the outcome. So forty footers 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:10.840 not so much. But you know, if we're down inside 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:13.880 twenty feet and definitely if you're missing putts, you know, 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:16.440 eight to twelve feet, you should be able to say 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.600 did I execute as intended? If you did, then it's 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.480 a misread, and then you can learn. You can start 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.519 to learn. Okay, I'm underreading the speed. You know, I'm 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.440 bad at judging whether the putt is uphill or downhill. 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:31.320 Because I hit this put as hard as I wanted to, 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:32.760 and I thought this is going to be close, and 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:36.640 you're like, whoa, you know that's that's still rolling right? 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:38.160 That was a misread, sash. 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:39.960 So this is very anecdotal, but I think we can 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:41.600 have Shane chime in on this because he was a 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:43.920 caddy at St. Andrews, done a lot of caddying in 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.840 his career. I feel like I was the best at 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:49.680 green reading when I was a fore caddy. I was 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.520 a fore caddy at Castle Pines in college and I 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:54.600 would just watch a ton of putts. I'd have to 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:56.680 debate Shane. You know, you know how this goes, like 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.320 should I tell the player where to actually hit it 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:05.520 or on underreading it for him? But I just was 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:09.600 maximizing the learning. I think, Sasho, Shane, what are your 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:11.600 thoughts on that from your experience Caddy. 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:13.720 Yeah, well, I mean Sasha made a great point about 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:15.840 the lengthy putts. I mean, Caddy and at St. Andrews, 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:17.400 you know you'd have a guy having eighty footer. I 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:19.320 mean it's not I'm not gonna give you a whole 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.120 lot of help in terms of speed. I can maybe 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:23.960 give you a line, but yeah, I couldn't agree with 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.839 you more Marty in terms of being on the back 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:29.400 for someone and watching a whole lot of different point 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.640 of putts. I mean sashow bringing up the idea of 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.120 a great player saying I hit six putts on the 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.480 practice screen and a half hour, and then you think 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.680 about going out on the golf course in real time 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.360 and how many puts you might face in around of golf. 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:43.840 I mean there's a chance you might face eighteen different putts, right, 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:45.720 I mean, there are a whole lot of different ones 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.000 out there. But Marty, I think you're spot on and 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.360 the idea of when you're watching someone else do it, 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:52.960 it feels like you learn a lot more than when 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:54.200 you're actually doing it yourself. 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:57.920 Yeah, Sasha, I think you also brought up something interesting there, 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:01.440 which is that path is not too big of a 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.839 factor to necessarily practice. So what are those kind of 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.560 like ballflight laws of a putt and why is it 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:12.360 exactly that a golfer should be focusing way more on 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.520 minimizing their face variability than their path variability? 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:19.279 Right, So what I look at is you want to 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:23.039 know from just a straight up physics standpoint. Okay, let's 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:25.320 say we're hitting a twelve foot putt. Just pick a putt, 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.520 straight flat twelve foot putt to pick one, So we can, 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:32.320 you know, set up some boundaries here, some understanding. Well, 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:34.960 you have to have your face angle be plus or 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:37.360 minus or sorry, your path be plus or minus three 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:40.359 and a half degrees to miss that twelve footer in 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:43.360 order to pull the ball far enough off your intended 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.960 start line. So you have to take the physics and 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:50.760 then say, okay, well what is a golfer's variability and path? 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.720 You need to look at both. So okay, is this 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:55.960 something that if I improve it will make a difference. 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.520 The worst putters that come through my lab do not 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:03.120 have have path variabilities that get plus or minus three 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.400 point five. Tour players are within plus or minus one. 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:11.480 So grinding on on nailing your path improving your path 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.760 is not going to move the needle and sinking more putts. 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.279 So I look at just since you brought a path, 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.000 but there are really four things that are predominantly under 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:25.320 the control the golfer. You've got path variability, face angle variability, 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.080 impact spot variability in the face of whether you're hitting 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:29.479 it off the toe the heel out of the center 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:34.640 high or low. And speed variability. And so you look at, okay, well, 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.479 how far let's take impact spot variability out of this 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:41.280 away from the center of the face. Do I need 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:43.599 to be before I miss that twelve foot putt? And 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.599 it is like plus or minus half an inch? Okay, 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:48.440 before you're going to start to miss a twelve inch putt. 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:50.800 And then you say, well, where am I at? How 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.040 many if I hit one hundred and twelve foot putts, 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:55.000 how many of those impact spots are going to be 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:57.719 outside plus or minus half an inch? And the answer 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:03.680 is zero. Right, Your directional miss is going to be 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:09.120 two percent of put length for every one centimeter outside 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.680 the impact spot. So you know, twelve foot pot one 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:14.440 hundred and forty four inches, you go, what's two percent 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.240 of that that? You know? If you go to the 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:18.800 extreme of how terribly you can miss a pot on 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.640 the putter face. It's it's accounting for virtually nothing left 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:24.640 or right of the hole, and it's only one percent 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.200 of rollout distance, so one hundred and forty four inches, 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:32.160 well one percent of that. I mean, the impact spot 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:37.680 variability gets completely washed out by face angle variability and 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:42.160 putter head speed variability. So that's when I say, what 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:44.800 should a person work on? Green reading is really important 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:46.920 seeing as many potts as you possibly can with different 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:49.800 slopes and brakes, and quantifying whether you misread it. But 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:54.960 then that same type of practice will benefit your speed control. Right, 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.480 you want to hone in your speed control. Okay, let's 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.160 hit a downhill pott. That's you know left right now 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.000 we're going uphill from fifteen feet now we're going side hill. 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.480 You start to that's the best way to get a 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:07.600 better sense of your speed controls to hit lots of 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:09.679 different putts to see it. You know, can you judge 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.560 those those speeds. Don't do drills are going to work 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:14.440 to reduce your very building path, to reduce your very 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:16.240 the impact spot. There's just not going to be any 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:18.240 gains to be had from improving those things. 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:19.240 Sasho. 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:21.120 How did you get into this world? I mean, I 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:23.120 mean listening to you talk has already opened up my 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.000 brain a bit. I mean the fact that you're telling 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:26.840 me I can hit a bad putt and still make 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.320 it if I've read the putt correctly makes me the 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.200 weight is lifted off my shoulders. Hearing you talk about 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:36.160 putting is amazing already. How did you get into this world? 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:40.160 I think I'm really drawn to it for two reasons. One, 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.800 there's not a put out there and any green that 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:48.280 any golfer can't sink. There are a million different shots 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:50.000 that only the best players in the world can hit. 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:52.640 You know you're going to try to carry a bunker 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.920 at three twenty, Well, that's eliminated just about everybody in 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.920 the planet. But everybody has the ability to sink every putts, 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:03.240 So that that's very attractive to me from like, hey, like, 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:04.960 let's see what we can ofpud. The other thing is 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:09.200 that it seems like there is a ton of room 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:13.000 for improvement. So if you took someone who's not into 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:16.160 golf and you watch them, you said, let's let's watch 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:19.240 Scotty Scheffler here hit this drive. You know, a hero 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:21.520 world challenge, and you said, are you impressed by that? 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.920 Everybody like holy smokes, like they'd be so impressed by 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:27.160 how far the ball goes. And then if you took 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:29.240 him on a putting green and you said, okay, here's 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:31.160 an eight foot putt. What percentage of these do you 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:33.760 think Scotty Scheffler's sinking? And they'd say, I don't know. 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:36.360 I just watched, like I hit probably like ninety nine percent. 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.200 Like you know, this this hole is like barely any 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:41.880 distance away, and you're like, well, he'd be doing good 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:44.640 to make half of his putts from here. So it's 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.080 like what you know, and if you go into a 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.839 lab situation, you can get players sinking nearly one hundred 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.880 percent of his eight footers. So there's a massive you know, 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.679 there's a massive potential there, I think to improve in 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.040 the putting green. And maybe I'm being a bit naive, 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:03.319 but I think that someone could come along and separate 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:07.960 themselves with putting to the same degree that say, you know, 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.760 Bryson did a few years ago with driving, or Rory's 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:13.800 you know kind of does with driving. But you know, 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.000 we haven't quite seen that with putting on a consistent basis. 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:18.880 So those are the two reasons. Is that it seems 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:21.480 like there's a lot of potential and everybody can do it. 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:24.560 Marty, it's so interesting to think about. I've never thought 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.400 about that before. Where you know, if you and I 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:29.679 go to the Masters and we go stand where Bobba 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:33.160 hit the shot on ten, I mean there's seven people 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:34.880 on the planet. They're going to hit up ye pull 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:37.679 you know, a pull hook gap wedge to twenty five feet. 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:39.600 But if you go stand on the back of the 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:43.520 eighteenth of Tory in theory A. Sasha's point, everybody can 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:45.680 make the putt raw mate. I mean, you know, you 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:47.080 get it on the right line with the right speed, 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:48.960 it's going to go in. I mean, I've never I've 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:50.080 never thought about that before. 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:54.320 Yeah, it is fun to think about, and I like that, Sasha. 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:57.240 What he brings to us is an engineering ambassador. Is 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.880 this first principles thinking right. It's just like some of 0:10:59.880 --> 0:11:04.600 the the concepts are obvious in hindsight, Sasho, now that 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:08.400 we've established the importance of face angle and delivered face angle, 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.400 let's talk about how we can affect that with the 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:15.839 putter right. Sure, and I think a big thing our 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.360 founder and a ping we've always known is that hey, 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:20.800 you know, if you have more arc in your stroke, 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:23.319 you generally do better with the more toe down putter, 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:26.559 less arc, more face balanced putter. Can you dive into 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.800 a little bit of why that is and the kinetics 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:34.440 and kinematics that connection and expand upon that a little bit? 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:39.960 Yeah, absolutely, so. I think there's there's two ways you 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:43.160 can you can measure or what you can look at 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:45.560 in terms of a of an outcome of what the 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.000 putter is doing to decide whether a putter is going 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:50.880 to be better fit a better fit for you. You've 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:55.679 got reducing the variability yep, so being more consistent with it, 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.640 and that's I think predominantly when we're fitting for a 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.200 stroke type. That's what we're trying to do. So this 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:04.000 is a little bit theoretical, This is kind of a 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:05.920 getting a bit into my opinion, but I you know, 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.079 I still think it's a pretty cool way to think 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:11.959 of it. You have folks that tend to put a 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.520 little bit more straight back, straight through, and they tend 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:19.840 to putt better with a face balanced style putter, where 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:21.760 you know, if you balance on your finger, the face 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:26.559 is pointing to the sky. These putters inherently give very 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:30.800 little feedback if you rotate them in your hands, because 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.000 the center of mass is very close to the shaft. 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:35.000 And I think there are a lot of folks who 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.080 don't want to feel the face opening and closing or 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.400 get any sensation of that. They set up an address 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.839 and they think, Okay, I've got this putter face pointing 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.160 where I want. I want to make my stroke. I 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:47.720 just want to know that if I don't do anything, 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:49.679 the putter doesn't do anything, this thing's going to be 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:53.040 delivered square. And those folks tend to do better with 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.559 a face balanced putter. Then you have people who inherently 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.440 like to feel the face opening closing. They want to 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:02.280 feel that that mass moving or so they have some 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:06.000 natural arcs, natural opening and closing of the face, and 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.600 you can enhance that feel with a putter that is 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.960 toe hang so. And that's where you'll see if you 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.200 go through like the putting sizes I've done in my lab, 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.400 and you know it happened at ping for a number 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.959 of years. Those putters that like to have some arc 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:22.600 in their stroke or tend to smark on the stroke, 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:24.360 they like little more feel. They do better with a 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.360 toe hang face balance better for the straight back straight through. 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.840 So that's that's one way to look at it. But 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:36.280 then I think some really low hanging fruit is addressing biases. 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:41.200 So a lot of people don't realize, but as you 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.800 go through the course of a round of golf or 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:48.400 a practice session, you might miss sixty five percent of 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.680 your putts to the right, and that's enough to make 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.160 a difference. You want to be fifty to fifty right. 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:55.880 You want to be in have that middle of the 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.120 bell curve of your misses be centered on the whole. 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:02.200 But you know, if it's sixty five thirty five, that's 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.000 not enough for us to remember right as we go 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.120 we're focusing on other things. It's tough to mentally if 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.040 you miss one hundred percent. Yeah, you're like, okay, I've 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.120 missed every put to the right, but it's tough to track. 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:15.120 So those systematic biases can kind of go on notice. 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.040 But hopefully you've done something where you pick up on 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.160 that right. Hey, i'm a right handed putter. I'm missing 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:21.960 everything out to the right. So we've done some really 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:26.640 neat studies showing that you can address those biases with 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:30.640 your putter type, and it seems like, well, we know 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.240 that toe hang putters, so uh, putters that have the 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:37.560 center mass off the shaft right, you're gonna tend to 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.680 leave the face a little bit more open at impact. 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.560 And that goes right across the board for pretty much everybody. 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:45.760 So if you tend to pull your putts, you're your 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.400 missing putts to the left. Hey, let's move you into 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:50.680 a toe hang we can address that bias. Your stroke 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.280 feels good, you don't want to start changing your stroke. Okay, 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.760 let's just go to a toe hang putter. Similarly, if 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.280 you tend to be you know, missing your putts the 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:00.960 other way, you tend to be pulling your putts, go 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:02.520 to a toe hang putter that's going to tend to 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.920 leave the face a little bit more open. I think 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:06.720 I've said those correct. 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:08.880 So, Sasha, is just a wrap a bow on these 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:12.400 two concepts. Here one would be and we've seen this 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:16.520 with iping. We have our consistency score that incentivized as 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:18.840 being more repeatable, and we can measure do a b 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:22.080 testing with different putters. We've seen it time and time again. 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:25.080 Like you said, if a player wants to feel less 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.640 resistance or the putter kind of feeling like it's going 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:32.480 to stay more square through the stroke. They have generally 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.640 a higher repeatability score. We can measure that, we can 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.920 we can improve the repeatability. That's number one, trying to 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.600 match the balance of the putter to what they're kind 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:45.520 of innately like the feel of. And then number two, 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.520 we can we can adjust the delivered face angle, which 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:53.360 will affect the face delivery. And because we know face 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.840 angle is is the primary thing we want to influence there. 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.040 We can eliminate a pull by playing a more toe 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.360 down putter, eliminate pushes, reduced pushes by playing more face 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:03.000 balanced putter. 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:03.680 You got it? 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:06.960 And why is that? Why is it that the face 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.520 is delivered more open? Uh, if you play more toe 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:11.040 down putter. 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.360 Yeah, And this this comes down to the kinetics, so 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:18.080 that the forces and torques that the golfers applying to 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:20.400 the club. So I'll try my best to do this 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.360 on a podcast, but there is a natural tendency of 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.920 you the center of mass off the shaft. When you 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.880 start your stroke, you're applying a force on the grip 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:34.480 away from the target that's actually going to tend to 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:38.800 close the face. So if your toe hang, the face 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.040 is going to start to close more in the backstroke 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.040 than the face balanced. And then what's interesting is then 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:48.120 from there on it's gonna be lagging the face balanced, 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:50.000 and it's going to get even more exaggerate. So as 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:53.840 you transition into your forward stroke, now you're applying a 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:57.600 force towards the target, and that starts to swing the 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.760 putter more open. So the towinguter is going to start 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:04.919 to open up more than the face balance. Okay, and 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.600 so now it's lagging in this open position. What's very 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:09.600 interesting is that that's going to be maintained all the 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:12.760 way up to impact so that it never catches up 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.160 to the face bounce. It's actually going to remain more open. 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.480 But what's interesting is that the rate that it's closing. 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:21.919 And so, I mean, I don't know whether this is 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.840 like a subconscious thing where folks realize who you know, 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.560 they're not perceiving it, but they're trying to close it faster, 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:30.199 or it's just just a reaction that you know, they're 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:34.479 not even controlling themselves. But the rate of face clothing 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:38.600 is faster at impact with the toe hang, so's it's open, 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.800 but it's trying to catch up. So that's the cause 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:43.720 for that face to be a little bit more open 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:46.800 with the toe hang hutter, and it's important to point 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:49.680 out that that's not a bad thing. You might actually 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:53.800 overclose with the face balance, so you need that little 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:54.919 bit of open bias. 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.800 Sasha, how important is it for people to maybe give 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:03.080 multiple putters a try, I mean to I mean, obviously 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:05.760 going through fitting is important and use an iping, but 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.280 to get those feels that you're talking about, to kind 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:13.280 of see throughout the options that maybe ping has available 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:16.480 to see maybe what you're describing on the pod. 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.719 Yeah, absolutely, I think that, you know, Pink does an 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.880 awesome job with the putter fitting. It pushes you very 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:25.720 strongly in a direction, but when it comes right down 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:27.600 to you, you do really want to try a couple 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.040 of putters, you know. Yeah, I firmly believe in that. 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:33.439 So there's there's always going to be someone who, you know, 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.320 if if you're not comfortable with it, it's probably not 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:38.679 going to work in the long term. It's tough to 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.399 really start to love a putter over time if you 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:44.440 don't like it, you know, within the first few days. 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.600 So I think that especially if you have you know, 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:49.800 you're like, I could use either of these, Hey, great 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:51.720 reason to go with the fitting, and the fitting is 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.080 certainly going to give you an excellent head start. But 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.040 I think I think testing out one or the other 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:00.080 is you know, we're both is obviously the best way 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:00.280 to go. 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:04.159 Sasha. We've had fun doing studies in our lab and 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:06.440 then you duplicate them in your lab and we don't 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.640 share results until until we both kind of completed them, 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.119 and that's kind of like two factor confirmation on our 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:16.680 our findings. One of them we did was on putter offset. 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:18.560 I know that's something you know a lot of the 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.200 golf world and you know, folks who followed the Proving 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:24.240 Grounds podcast probably curious about. So give us a little 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:26.639 overview and that that study we did a few years 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.359 back on a putter with more and less offset and 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.760