1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World. I recently came across 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Tim Kennedy's memoir Scars and Stripes and on apologetically American 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:20,159 Speaker 1: story of fighting the Taliban, UFC warriors and myself, and 4 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: I was intrigued. He's a decorated Greenberret sniper, a UFC headliner, 5 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: and a self described badass. But at its core, his 6 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: memoir talks about the challenges and failures he's lived through 7 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: and how those experiences shaped him into the man he 8 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: is today, a devoted husband, father, and successful business owner. 9 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: So I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, Tim Kennedy. 10 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: He is a Greenborrey sniper, former MMA fighter, and he 11 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: owns Apogee Cedar Park, a private school in Texas, and 12 00:00:54,240 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: sheep Dog Response, a tactical training company. Je I'm welcome 13 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: and thank you for joining me on news World. No, 14 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me. I have to 15 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: say first to our listeners, your book Scars and Stripes 16 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: these number seven and the New Times Nonfiction bestseller list 17 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: this week. That's an extraordinary achievement for a first time author. Congratulations. 18 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 1: Are you surprised by the reception the book has received? Yes, 19 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: it really wore my heart, I'm sure as you know. 20 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 1: Putting your thoughts in your soul in black and white 21 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: out for everyone to read and to be judged, it's 22 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: a frightening thing. And my peers, my colleagues, they're not 23 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: very kind sometimes, so I was a little fearful as 24 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: to how people would receive what I thought and what 25 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: I felt, what I experienced. I think one of the 26 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: amazing things about Scars and Stripes is how candid and 27 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: vivid you are in describing the experiences in your life. 28 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,279 Speaker 1: Would you share with our listeners opening paragraph of your book. Actually, 29 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: I have it right here. My name is Tim Kennedy, 30 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: and I have a problem. I only feel alive when 31 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: I'm about to die. I've killed evil men on multiple continents. 32 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: I've fought in main event bouts in the UFC, served 33 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: as a Green Beret, an EMT, a firefighter, and a cop. 34 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: I've hunted Nazis, drug runners, Zarkawie, human traffickers, rhino poachers, 35 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: al Qaeda, the Taliban, wildebeest, elk bear, and have the 36 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 1: recipe for the perfect souflay. I fly helicopters, jump out 37 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: of airplanes, dive mixed gas to the ocean, depths, rustle 38 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: bowls with my bare hands, lift heavyweights, blow things up, 39 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 1: and improficient and of just about every weapon system under 40 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: the sun. I train warriors, own companies, serve my country, 41 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: and I'm just getting warmed up. Yeah, but then it 42 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: gets real. The next paragraph is life hasn't been easy, 43 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,679 Speaker 1: and it has not been perfect. On the surface, I 44 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: make a pretty good rambo, but the truth is, for 45 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: everything I've accomplished, I've screwed up a whole lot more. 46 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: And I don't mean that in a self serving way. 47 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: When I say I've hit rock bottom. I need you 48 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: to understand that I went for it so hard that 49 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: if you were a car, I'd have no windows, no doors, 50 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: or offenders and I would be on fire at the 51 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: bottom of ravine. That's a pretty wild description. But you 52 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: go on and talk about the fact that life gets 53 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: better if you only do a few things. And I 54 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: think this is a really important a list of seven 55 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: that I think people are going to find fascinating. And 56 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: can you just describe the seven things that you think 57 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: really help make life get better? Yeah, So this book 58 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: is so important right now. You know, we're editorializing and 59 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: curating everything that we're doing Instagram filters and TikTok and snapchat, 60 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: and the news is curated to fit whatever agenda is 61 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: appropriate and easy. But nobody's talking about failure, or about 62 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: struggle or about hard work. I see. It took me 63 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: a long time to figure these out. And one is 64 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: take accountability for it. It's your fault. Failure is going 65 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: to happen when it does. See number one. If you 66 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: want to fail less, see number three through seven. So 67 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: three is an ounce of prevention, is worth abound a cure. 68 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: The best time to start preparing is now. You cannot 69 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: mass produce elite people. They need to be forged from 70 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: hard experiences. If you want to be one of them, 71 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: you need to seek these challenges consistently. Take care of 72 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: yourself physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. For some people that 73 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: means therapy. For some people that means yoga and a 74 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: cup of tea or fishing with a family. For me, 75 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: that means embracing a constant struggle. Rejecting comfort makes me 76 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: well comfortable. Surround yourself with good people striving to also 77 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: improve themselves, build goals, and pursue them to the ends 78 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: of the earth. Now that's what you've learned as you've 79 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: grown up and as you've reflected in life. But there's 80 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: a story that at the age of twelve, you and 81 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 1: your brother and friends went out to find a guy 82 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 1: who had escaped a mental institution. And you had sticks 83 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: you sharpened into a spear. Now, what were you guys 84 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: planning on doing once you saw it? Mean, you're twelve 85 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: years old. Yeah, I think we're going to be like 86 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: the Lost Boys in Neverland. You know, we're gonna surround him, 87 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: We're gonna poke him, and he's gonna lay down and 88 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: put his hands behind his back, and we'd call the police, 89 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: who would come in and we would be the heroes 90 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: that didn't happen. I was gonna say, did you actually 91 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: ever find him? We did, yes, sir, and we found him. 92 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 1: He was munching on a bunch of marijuana plants in 93 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: the bottom of a creek bed in a Taskadoro, California. 94 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: We literally came across him down in the creek bed, 95 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: and when he came up, he had been eating these edibles. 96 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: I'm gonnassuming for two days now, and with p running 97 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 1: down my leg, I was so scared I couldn't even scream, 98 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: and we all just took off running, throwing everything we 99 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: could up in the air as we ran from this 100 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: mental health escape. That was high as a kite. That's wild. 101 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: Was he physically a lot bigger than you guys? Yeah, 102 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: he was a grown man. I think he was in 103 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: his early forties and I was ten. My brother was twelve, 104 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: Jordan Cunningham was thirteen, Andrew Hackelman was thirteen. You know, 105 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: Jared I think was nine. We're just little children, that's wild. 106 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 1: So there's another story that during a tropical storm as 107 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: a kid, instead of hunkering down inside back to the 108 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: same team, you and your brothers and friends stole similar 109 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: tubes and rode down the river near your house. Man, 110 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: what did your parents think of these kind of antics? 111 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: This was in the eighties. The helicopter parent had yet 112 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: been created, So there was times where they would push 113 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: us out the back door and they would lock the 114 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,559 Speaker 1: door and we could come home when the sun set. 115 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: It's way different now, but back then there was a 116 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: degree of fair illness to children that grew up in 117 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: the eighties. You know, I did not wear helmets when 118 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: I rode bicycles. We did not wear elbow pads when 119 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 1: we rode skateboards. And when I went to the tire 120 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: store to steal inner tubes, it was not to replace 121 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: my flat tires. It was to blow them up and 122 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: then jump into the Salinas River during El Nino and 123 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: see if we could not drown. And did you actually 124 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: ride the water? We did, Yeah. So we jumped off 125 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: a bridge that crossed a Tascadero Creek and where a 126 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: Tascadero Creek hit the Salinas River, we had dropped a 127 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: rope across the river and as we went down these 128 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: wild rapids, and I'm talking like the water was barely 129 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: going underneath the bridge. The water had probably gone up 130 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: another twenty thirty feet and had we not caught that 131 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: rope going down the river, we would have been swept 132 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: to our death, without a doubt. And that was our 133 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: failsafe backstop was a rope across the creek. It brings 134 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: back some memories. I used to teach environmental studies in 135 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: a one time. It went to North Georgia and we 136 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: were a wild river and my two daughters, who at 137 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: that time were probably maybe nine and eleven, they both 138 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: had on helmets and jackets, but other than that, they 139 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: were floating down a wild river and one of them 140 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: actually got turned upside down. It was terrified that she 141 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: was going to hit her head on a rock, and 142 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: I'm trying to get to them, and of course the 143 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: water is so powerful it was really hard to get 144 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: to him, even though it wasn't a gigantic river, but 145 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: it was a genuine North Georgia mountain stream during the 146 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: rainy season. And so you're sort of reminding me of 147 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: that experience as we talk about this. But your father 148 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: was an elite counter narcotics officer who was up against 149 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: Pablo Escobar, which is really something. And your family had 150 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: a red phone in the closet where you're entire family, 151 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: including the thirteen year old you had to answer to 152 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,679 Speaker 1: add to his cover identity. That must have been an 153 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: amazing experience. It was surreal, and I never understood now 154 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: having a family of my own and being really careful 155 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: about who sees them and where they see them. They're 156 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: not at my businesses, they're very rarely in the public eye. 157 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: They're not very frequently even on my social media. So 158 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: I'm very careful about who sees them. But back then, 159 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: you know, social media was around, this was a different 160 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: type of danger. The Colombian cartels were the most dangerous 161 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: group on the planet. And this is like peak war 162 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: on drugs, you know, when Reagan is trying to fight 163 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: the cartels and Bush one is doing everything he can 164 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: to prevent cocaine and meth and heroin from making it 165 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: into the United States, and my dad's on the front 166 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: lines of that, and that red phone. You know, we'd 167 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: have scripts that were up on the wall, and it 168 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 1: was really just to confirm his pattern of life. So 169 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: if police officers work shifts, and if a drug dealer 170 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: or a cartel member where it's going to call and 171 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: my dad's at work, and he calls the next day 172 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: and my dad's at work again, Well, now he knows 173 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: that my dad is working a constant shift, which is 174 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: not typical of a drug deal So the goal was 175 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: just to try to disrupt the perceived pattern of life 176 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: for my father and hopefully keep his cover a little 177 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: bit more secure. You know, it's interesting. Years ago I 178 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: read Bowden's book Killing Pablo, which is the whole hunt 179 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: for Pablo Escobar, which is an astonishing story. The degree 180 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: to which he was able to hide. I met Ian 181 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 1: and really had large parts of the city that were 182 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: protecting him. You're growing up in a family where your 183 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: father's running a really big risk, wildly dangerous. He just 184 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: like my grandpa and my uncles, they were part of 185 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: a generation that knew justice, and they knew what right 186 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: and wrong was, and they would make sacrifices in an 187 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: effort to you know, for evil to conquer, it takes 188 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: good men to do nothing. And my entire family subscribed 189 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: to that. A grandpa that fought Nazis, and uncles that 190 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: fought communism in Vietnam, and a dad that in the 191 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 1: eighties that was the face of evil was the drug 192 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: cartels that were organs crime, human trafficking, all of it 193 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: was connected to the drug cartels. So your dad watching 194 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: you grow up, besides as a teenager that you need 195 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,719 Speaker 1: to go into jiu jitsu, why was that man being 196 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: that middle child? My big brother to this day is perfect, 197 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: and I mean that endearingly but also like annoyingly. You know, 198 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: he like always did the right thing, and he was 199 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: always on time. And the firstborn, with the responsibility being 200 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: the firstborn and then the second born, I had such 201 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: a need to prove myself and I would do the 202 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: craziest things just to prove that no, no, I'm a 203 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: young man. And those things were often reckless. So my dad, 204 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: very wisely early on, recognized that I had a chip 205 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: on my shoulder when I was born. I was born 206 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: with a heart murmur, a really bad one, and this 207 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: ventrical defect. They wanted to do open heart surgery on me. 208 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: They thought I was going to die. And I was 209 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: just a small runt of a child, and all my 210 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: friends were bigger and stronger, even all my cribmates. You know, 211 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: I started walking early, but I would take a few 212 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: steps and I'd stop because I was tired and out 213 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: of breath. And that added to the chip on my 214 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: shoulder of wanting to prove that no, I'm not little, 215 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: No I'm not weak. No I'm not the middle child. 216 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not the little brother. And like that 217 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: carried all the way into adolescence. And so what did 218 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: you learn out of jiu jitsu? I learned how to 219 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: control my temper. I learned how to channel rage. I 220 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: learned a little bit of discipline and regiment. You know, 221 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: I got really good at it really fast, and I 222 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: was just good at fighting, and I usually won. I 223 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: almost always won. And there was one night where I 224 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: got caught and I got submitted, and I sit up 225 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: and I think I'm fourteen maybe, and I just yell 226 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: a four letter word. My dad is sitting there. The 227 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: entire dojo just goes quiet, and they line up, and 228 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: my martial arts instructor brates me as to what went 229 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: wrong In a few moments before that, he cracked me 230 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: in the face with a stick and I looked over 231 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 1: at my dad like, he are you gonna come over 232 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,079 Speaker 1: here and address this, you know, like? And my dad 233 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: just leaned back and he crossed his arms. It's like, no, 234 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: you're the one that was out of control, and you're 235 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: the one that lost your temper. You deal with the 236 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: consequences of it. That's just an antiduinal example of how 237 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: the shaping of a young man happens, and how important 238 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 1: it is to have those learning moments. As you're growing up. 239 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 1: You want to become a policeman, but before then, because 240 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: you're still too young, you first become emt and then 241 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: a fireman. Those are very life saving and people oriented professions. 242 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 1: When I was five years old going to North County 243 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: Christian School, I wrote in my little journal a picture 244 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 1: of a man in camouflage, jumping out of an airplane 245 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: wearing a martial art belt, and I said, I wanted 246 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: to be an army karate guy, is what I wrote. 247 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: As a five year old, I had that protector, guardian, 248 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: sheepdog thing inside of me. So by the time I 249 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: got out of high school, I knew what I wanted 250 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: to do. You know, when I started college, it was 251 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: very specific purpose. I wanted to go work for the FBI. 252 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: I wanted to be a protector. I wanted to not 253 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: let evil happen. So firefighter, EMT, paramedic, police officer, those 254 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: were all stepping stones and blocks on a pathway to 255 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: ultimately being the best version of a protector that I could. 256 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: When you finally got to join the police academy, I mean, 257 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: how did you feel about that? I mean I was 258 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: proud to be there, but I was also an arrogant prick. 259 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: I have so much respect for good police officers. They're educated, 260 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: they're well tempered, they're patient, they understand human nature. But 261 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: they would do violence on behalf of their community to 262 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: try to protect their community. Those are very rare attributes 263 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: to find in one person. Not all police officers haven't, 264 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: but some do, and I did not. I did not 265 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: have temperance. I did not have grace, I did not 266 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: have patience. I did not have any of the attributes 267 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: that are great for a police officer to have. And 268 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: it was a hard learning curve of not being an 269 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: egotistical prick, you know, a little narcissist. I was the fastest, 270 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: I was the strongest, I was the best fighter. I 271 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: thought I was made to be a police officer, and 272 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: very quickly I learned just how far from reality that was. 273 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: So you're becoming a police officer. But then the day 274 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: after nine eleven you visit the Army Navian Marine recruiters 275 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: to try to enlist what drove you to move so 276 00:15:53,320 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: quickly after nine eleven justice rage. Obviously I wasn't on 277 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: the day of infamy when we were attacked at Pearl Harbor, 278 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: but this was my version of Pearl Harbor. You know. 279 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: I remember sitting there watching live on a laptop in California, 280 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: that second plane slamming of those buildings. I was frozen 281 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: to that monitor, watching Americans look out and decide if 282 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: they were going to jump to their death or they're 283 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: going to burn alive. And I couldn't allow that to 284 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: happen to another American. I couldn't sit there and be helpless, 285 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: and helplessness is not something I can handle of all 286 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: of my shortcomings, you know, not for one second can 287 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: I sit back and let something happen like that. I 288 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: was at the recruiter's office trying to figure out. You know, 289 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: we didn't even know who the evil was. We hadn't 290 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: put a name on it. We didn't know who had 291 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: done it yet. That didn't come out for a few weeks. 292 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: But whoever it was, you know, they needed retribution. We 293 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: needed to have revenge. And in that process, when you 294 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: do join up, I gather they other a unique opportunity 295 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 1: that the Army saw you as somebody that could in 296 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,479 Speaker 1: fact be extraordinary helpful. You explain the program that they 297 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: drew you into. Normally, to go into Special Forces join 298 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: the military, you spend four to seven years within your unit, 299 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: you earn your blue cord as an infantryman. You go 300 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: to airborne school, maybe go to ranger school, maybe you 301 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: a ranger regiment, but you learn how the military works. 302 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: And then as you are becoming an NCO, you are 303 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: eligible to go to Special Forces selection. And if you 304 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: are selected, about eight out of one hundred men are selected. 305 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: If you are one of those eight, then you get 306 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: to come to Special Forces training. During the war, we 307 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: were short on green berets, and they're the first ones 308 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan. They were the first ones really doing the 309 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: heavy fighting and nearly every conflict, and so the army 310 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: needed to find way to get more green berets. They 311 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: had tested a program in Vietnam called the eighteen X 312 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,479 Speaker 1: ray program where they would take college educated athletes and 313 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: they would let them instead of spending four to seven 314 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: years in the army, they would let them come in 315 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 1: and try to be selected. They were selected at a 316 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 1: way lower rate, but the ones that were selected had 317 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: a high chance of graduating from the Q course, and 318 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: that was the eighteen X ray program. Within the regiment, 319 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: it was called the SF babies. So I was an 320 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: S baby. My dad was infantry for twenty seven years 321 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: and when airborne actually after he was a grandfather, and 322 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: he said to me one day he found himself on 323 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: this very fine airplane with a parachuteing for the first time, 324 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: thinking to himself, you know the plane is going to land, 325 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: Why am I jumping out? I spent time at Benning 326 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: and elsewhere as a child. So from your standpoint, how 327 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: tough was the training and what did you go through? 328 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: I love the training. I loved how tough it was 329 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: when I got there. By two thousand and three, two 330 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: thousand and four, the war is going, this is peak surge. 331 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 1: Green Berets are dying. We have boots on the ground 332 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: and being a brand new Green Beret in the military 333 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: and having my instructors. They are men that are just 334 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: returning from war and we're children. You know, they're looking 335 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: at us, young men, these eighteen x ray SF babies, 336 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: not with disdain, but they don't want to be there. 337 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: They want to be with their teams. They want to 338 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: be overseas. They want to be part of the conflict. 339 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 1: They want to be side by side with the brothers 340 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: that they're so proud to wear the Green beret to 341 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: fight with. And not that they were taking it out 342 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: on us, but they were going to ensure that whatever 343 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: graduated from these courses, we're going to be the best 344 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: product that they could possibly create. So the weak ones 345 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 1: they left, the hard ones they made harder, and the 346 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: smart ones they made smarter. And then every once in 347 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 1: a while, a guy like me just snuck through, and 348 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 1: that's what was happening in peak war was they were 349 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: trying to to find the best and the brightest and 350 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: make them better and brighter. So special Forces training that 351 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: is separate from Ranger School. It's a different track, absolutely, 352 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: but then you ultimately go to Ranger School. Yes, there's 353 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: Ranger Regiment, which is a light infantry special operations unit, 354 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: and that's what's called the Army Rangers. And then the 355 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: rest of the Army. Everybody can go to Ranger School, 356 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: which is a leadership school, but everybody in Ranger Regiment 357 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: has to go to Ranger School. I know, you need 358 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: a flow chart. Completely separate from all of that are 359 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: the Green Berets, which is the Army Special Forces. Army 360 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: Special Forces can go to Ranger School just like everybody 361 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: else in the Army because it's a great leadership school. 362 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: So I'm a Green Beret that has a Ranger tab, 363 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: but I was never an Army Ranger. I've always been 364 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: a Green Beret, all right, And they're totally different in mission. 365 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: So the Army Rangers, they are a direct action assault force, 366 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 1: and then the Army Berets, Army Special Forces, we are 367 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:12,959 Speaker 1: unconventional irregular warfare specialists, so we go behind enemy lions 368 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: and we train. In Afghanistan, for example, we are training 369 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 1: and fighting alongside the Afghan Special Forces commandos. In Colombia 370 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,360 Speaker 1: when we are fighting the FARC, we are working with 371 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: the Colombian police and we're training the Columbian special Forces 372 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: to go and fight the cartel or the communist, socialist anarchist. So, 373 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: in a sense, the Ranger Regiment, correct me if I 374 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: get this wrong. With the Ranger Regiment is a shock force. 375 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: For a regular conventional mission, you are in fact much 376 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: more often going to be moving quietly and carefully to 377 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: a specific point to achieve a specific goal. That is 378 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: a great summary of it. Yes, Sir, I was very 379 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: fortunate years ago I got to spend an afternoon with 380 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: the general who had founded the Green Berets and who 381 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: at that point was in his late nineties, and he's 382 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: a remarkable man. He had had an amazing career in 383 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: World War Two, and it was the guy who convinced 384 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: John F. Kennedy, with great opposition from the regular Army, 385 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: that we needed irregular forces. But now, so when you're 386 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: out in the field and you're on their way to 387 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: Iraq for your first combat deployment in two thousand and six. 388 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: I mean, how did it feel? What were you thinking 389 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: at that point? Sink or swim? You know? It felt 390 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: as if I was so over my head. I didn't 391 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: deserve to be there. That's what I felt, you know. 392 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: As I looked around my left into my right. They 393 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: were seasoned combat veterans. They're experienced and hardened men. I 394 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: felt like a child. There was no other place I 395 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: wanted to be. I wanted to belong there so badly, 396 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: you know, but I didn't, not yet. So that I 397 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: was one of the downsides of the eighteen X ray program, 398 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: because you don't have the five or six years of 399 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: regular Army to get acclimated before you become agreere. You're 400 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: going right into Green Beret, that's right, And statistically we 401 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 1: would die about twice the death rate as a regular 402 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 1: Green Beret. So even though they were putting more bodies 403 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 1: and boots, those boots were going into coffins faster than 404 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: anybody else in the Green Berets. Well, they always say 405 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: it's the first couple combat events that are actually the 406 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: most dangerous because you don't yet know how to stay 407 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: down and how to make sure you're doing the right thing. 408 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: But then that same year, you're on the mission that 409 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 1: kills Zakawi, who at that time was the number two 410 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: men on the most wanted listening. Did you go out 411 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: on that mission knowing that Zarkawi was a target. Yes, 412 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: That whole entire task force was built around tracking Zarkawi. 413 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 1: The whole task force had the sole purpose of chopping 414 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: off the head of the snake in Iraq. You know, 415 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: if bin Laden is the leader of the radical terrorist organization, 416 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: as Arkawi in Iraq is the leader of all resistance 417 00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: within Iraq, effectively destroying the leader of that organization was 418 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: going to create such chaos and opportunity for us to 419 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: hopefully ultimately built stability within the region. Having been involved 420 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: in that extraordinary mission, you had a chance then to 421 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: meet with President Bush. I mean that must have been 422 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: quite a jump. It was wild once we knew that 423 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: we had Jackpot, once we knew that we had found 424 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: the number two guy on the planet, the number one 425 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: bad guy in all of Iraq. That night we figured 426 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: out how many safe houses he had left. Because we've 427 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: been hitting house after house after house, we got them 428 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: down to a manageable number where we in one night 429 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: between all of the Special Operations units on the ground 430 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 1: could attack all of the houses all at one time, 431 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: and that's what we did, and ultimately it drove him 432 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: to one safe house where we dropped a big bomb 433 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,199 Speaker 1: on it. And there was one Special Operations guy that 434 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: literally stood over his dying body with his foot on 435 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: his chest as he took his last breaths of air 436 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 1: as he succumbed to his wounds from the bomb. That night, 437 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: wild all cell phones, everything was black, no emails in, 438 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: no emails out the whole entire task force. And we 439 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: knew that for us that weren't physically on the mission 440 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: or weren't physically at the house because we were hitting 441 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: other targets, we knew we got him. And then we 442 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: find out the next morning that President Bush is flying 443 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: in to think the task force personally because Zark, how 444 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: he was not just the leader, he was also the 445 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: face of the resistance in Iraq. He hung bodies from bridges, 446 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: he burnt people alive, He always posed with American weapons 447 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: that he had taken off dead soldiers. He was the 448 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: face of it. And to know that he was gone, 449 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: it was such a victory for the United States and 450 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: President Bush. There was no fanfare, there is no publicity. 451 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: That was just President Bush as a man, as an American, 452 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: flying to us to say things didn't realizable. But you 453 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: understand from Zakaway's importance what it meant when we were 454 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: able to kill Salamani, who had been the head of 455 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: all of the Iranian terrorist operations for I think twenty years. Yeah, 456 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: I mean Salomoni. There's no doubt that Salomony, you know, 457 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: took legs from my friends and killed countless of my colleagues. 458 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: There's no doubt. So, you know, not many people really 459 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: understand how long Salmoni had been impacting that entire region, 460 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: both Iraq and Afghanistan. You know, Iran was both supporting 461 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: and financing foreign fighters in the Global War on Terror 462 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: in Iraq and Afghanistan. So after him, in part of 463 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: killing Zakali, you go to Ranger School. How tough was 464 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: Ranger school compared to your Special Forces training? It was 465 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: a blast, It was easy. It's a school. It's a 466 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: school that they want you to make sure you understand 467 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: how to be a leader. And you cannot make a 468 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: leader under perfect conditions. You know, you cannot make a 469 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: leader in a vacuum. You have to, according to the Army, 470 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: you have to starve that leader. You have to make 471 00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: him sleep deprived, you have to put him into extra 472 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: dinary circumstances. So then when you peel back a couple 473 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 1: of layers of comfort, you see what a leader really 474 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: is and who they really are as a person. Are 475 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: they going to volunteer to stay up an extra hour 476 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: to be a good guard? Are they going to give 477 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: up a blanket a meal? Are they going to sacrifice 478 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: a couple extra calories of effort to carry the heavy 479 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 1: weapons system for the rest of their team? Those are 480 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: all questions that any normal, healthy, well fed, rested person 481 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: is going to make the right decision. But what are 482 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: you going to do when you're tired? What are you 483 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: going to do when you're cold? What are you going 484 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: to do when you're hurting, Your feet are rotten, you 485 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: have crotch rot who knows what kind of spider bite 486 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 1: underneath your armpit? What are you going to do then 487 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: when somebody asks you for help? And that's what ranger 488 00:27:43,280 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 1: school is, and I loved it. So there's something almost 489 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: ironic about the fact that a week after a ranger 490 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: school you get a call from the International Fight League 491 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: about a fight in Atlanta. First of all, I have 492 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: to say, but I had no idea the Army would 493 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 1: let you do this. But tell us a little bit 494 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: about it. I mean, you're just out of Ranger School, 495 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: you've been in Iraq, and now you're getting this opportunity, 496 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: which is different than most of us ever experience. I've 497 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: had a blessed in wild life. But you know, most 498 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: people take months, you know, sometimes at half a year 499 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 1: to physically recover from Ranger School. There's people that they 500 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,360 Speaker 1: don't have to take a PT test for as long 501 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: as a year after graduating Ranger School because your body 502 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: gets so damaged because you're put under such stress. I 503 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: loved Ranger School. I went into it with a different 504 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: mentality and I graduated feeling good. And so when the 505 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: phone rang and they asked if I would go and 506 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: fight as a middleweight. The day that you graduate Ranger School, 507 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: all you do for the next month is eat. You 508 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: just eat BP. So I had this fat, pudgy face. 509 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: I had all of this like extra water weight, and 510 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: when the phone rings, they are like, hey, can you 511 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: make two oh five? Can you cut to two hundred 512 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: and five pounds? To fight in this light heavyweight tournament. 513 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, man, I don't know. I have 514 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: only been eating for the past six days. Ultimately talked 515 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: myself into it and hopped on a plane and the 516 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: Army didn't mind you doing this. So that's a tricky question. 517 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: I took my leave, so I put in like a 518 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: request for a vacation. You know, PTO paid time off 519 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: is called leave. So I put in that I was 520 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: going to be traveling, and I put the address of 521 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: the city that I was going to be at, and 522 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: I had my team sergeant and my team leaders sign 523 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: it and it went to my company. So I was 524 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: approved to travel. And by no means did the Army 525 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: say I could go and do a professional fight on 526 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: national television. But they did say that I was allowed 527 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: to travel outside a fourth brag, So okay, so you 528 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: end up fight. Did you win the first fight? The 529 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: guy I thought he was a famous black belt, you know, 530 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: he came from a famous school, and nobody knew had 531 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: any idea who I was. So the betting lines, everybody 532 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: thought that this guy would just walk right through me, 533 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: and I pummeled him like a starved pit bull that 534 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: had just been wocked in a cage for months on end, 535 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: like I just mauled him. That's spent a number of 536 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: years juggling the army in this kind of fighting. How 537 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: did you balance the two? Not well. I kept winning 538 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: as I was fighting. I'm good at fighting. But I 539 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: couldn't let either go because I love them both. You know. 540 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: I love being a fighter. I love being a martial artist. 541 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: It's who I've always been. But I finally found the 542 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: community that I belonged in, you know. I found my peers, 543 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: I found men that I aspired to be. I wanted 544 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: to be like my team sergeants. I wanted to be 545 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: like my company sergeant major. I wanted to be useful 546 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: to my country. So I would fight, then I would 547 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: go to a school, and then I would deploy. And 548 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: then I would fight, and then I would go to 549 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: a school. Then I would fight, and then i'd deploy. 550 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: So I did this merry ground of popping on different 551 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: animals on the carousel, and I'd have a wild ride 552 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: for a minute, and then I would hop on the 553 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: next one. And it all worked until the card house 554 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: came tumbling down. Weren't you at a disadvantage spending your 555 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,959 Speaker 1: time learning what the army needed and then being up 556 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: against somebody who was full time focused on being an 557 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: MMA fighter. Wasn't there a certain disadvantage to you for that? Yeah? Absolutely, 558 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: And as talented of an athlete as I think I am, 559 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: I lost razor close decisions for world titles. And I 560 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: think the argument has been if you would just dedicated 561 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: a little bit more of your time, you would have 562 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: been the world champion time and time again. But I 563 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: could never let go of that community that I loved 564 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: to be part of. Now you've gone into a slightly 565 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: different kind of world, and that you're the owner of 566 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: two businesses, the Apogee Cedar Park, which was a private 567 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: school you have to tell us about, and then Sheep 568 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: Dog Response, which is a tactical training company. There's a 569 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: totally different role for you to be the owner and 570 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: the manager and to be doing something that I assume 571 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: involves dramatically less violence. Oh yeah. At the school definitely. 572 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: If there's any violence at the school, I've done my 573 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: job horrifically wrong. And in light of recent school shootings, 574 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: my school is pretty safe. I would think you'd be 575 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: a really bad school for somebody to decide to pick on. Yeah, 576 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: our school is definitely not the school to go to. 577 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: So Sheepdog Response. Colonel Grossman wrote this book and he 578 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,959 Speaker 1: had a metaphor in it defining kind of three different 579 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: categories of humans. One is the sheep. You know, it's 580 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: just a regular, everyday human that just goes about their 581 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: life eating grass and making baby sheep. There's nothing wrong 582 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: with being a sheep. They live blissfully, ignorant of the 583 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: dangers out in the world. And then you have the wolf, 584 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: which obviously is a predator. That predator looks for the 585 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: weakest in the flock and goes and kills the weakest 586 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,719 Speaker 1: in the flock. Then you have the sheep dog. Genetically, 587 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: the sheep dog is the most similar to the wolf. Right, 588 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: He's got canines, he knows how to hunt, he has 589 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: all the predatory instincts. But the difference between him and 590 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: the wolf is that he likes the sheep. You know, 591 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: his job is to take care of it. My company, 592 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: Sheepdog Response, we are almost all special operations instructors. We 593 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: have Delta Force guys, Navy seals, marine ricon naval special warfare, 594 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: and we train American citizens. Really, anybody that believes in 595 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 1: the tenants of being able to preserve and protect human life. 596 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: We train and equip them how to do that. So 597 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: it's school teachers, it's firefighters, it's police officers, it's military units, 598 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: it's anybody that wants to protect human life. We want 599 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: to make sure that they know how to do it, 600 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: and that's what my company does. That's really amazing, that's remarkable. 601 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: And can people find both Appage Cedar Park and sheep 602 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: Dog Response on the Internet. Yes, we probably have the 603 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: largest defensive tactics company in the world now Chepdog Respondense, 604 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: you know, you can google it and there we are 605 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: an appagcar park. You know it's a private school in 606 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,240 Speaker 1: North Austin. That's terrific. Listen, Tim, I want to thank 607 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: you for joining me. Absolutely fascinating. You've had already a 608 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: remarkable life, and I think you probably have a lot 609 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: more remarkable adventures ahead of you. We're going to have 610 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: a link to your fantastic new memoir Scars and Stripes 611 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,240 Speaker 1: and on apologetically American story of fighting the Taliban, UFC 612 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,839 Speaker 1: Warriors and myself on our showpage at Newtsworld dot com. 613 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: And I started to think everybody who's heard this is 614 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 1: going to want to read it and I just want 615 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 1: to thank you for taking the time today to be 616 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: with us. It's my pleasure. Thanks for everything that you 617 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: do and I appreciate your time. Thank you to my guest, 618 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 1: Tim Kennedy. You can get a link to buy his 619 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: new book Scars and Stripes and on Apologetically American story 620 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 1: of fighting the Taliban, UFC Warriors and myself on our 621 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: show page at newtsworld dot com. News World is produced 622 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: by Gain which were six and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer 623 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: is Garnsey Sloan, our producer is Rebecca Howell, and our 624 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was 625 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at 626 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: Gingwich three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newsworld, I hope 627 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with 628 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: five stars and give us a review so others can 629 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of news 630 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: World can sign up for my three free weekly columns 631 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: at Gingwich three sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. 632 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: This is news World