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Speaker 1: March eighth, nineteen ninety, an unknown homicide victim washed ashore

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Speaker 1: in West Point Lake, just north of Lagrange, Georgia. He

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Speaker 1: is still unidentified today. We need your help, y'all tonight.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, Chief clay Brant. Chief, how are you doing well?

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Speaker 2: Doing? Glad to hear from your share?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you're back because this case, I honestly

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Speaker 1: believe with the help of as many people that we

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Speaker 1: can get the word out. You used to had a

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Speaker 1: better chance of identifying this man well, without.

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Speaker 2: A doubt, And I'm so privileged to be able to

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Speaker 2: have your platform to be able to put this word out.

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Speaker 2: This case has gone long enough.

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Speaker 1: Well I just won't be able to know. West Point

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Speaker 1: Late is a man made reservoir located in west central

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Speaker 1: Georgia on the Chattahoochee River, and it's maintained by the

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Speaker 1: Army Corps of Engineers. It flows from the north. Now, Chief,

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Speaker 1: the body of this man was in advanced state of decall.

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Speaker 1: The medical examiner theorized that it had been about sixty

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Speaker 1: days post death and the gunshot wound was the cause

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Speaker 1: of death.

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Speaker 2: Correct, that is correct.

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Speaker 1: What those gunshot wounds look.

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Speaker 2: Like typical keyhole defects in the skull to the rear

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Speaker 2: of the skull, if you would termine as an execution.

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Speaker 1: Style killing execution style. So two, so they met business.

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Speaker 2: They were d shots were intended to dispatch the victim quickly.

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Speaker 1: And the victim was between thirty and sixty, approximately six

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Speaker 1: feet tall and one hundred and eighty pounds Caucasian.

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Speaker 2: Correct, And there's time span on age is kind of lengthy,

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Speaker 2: but that had to do with the fact that he

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Speaker 2: was in advanced stage of decomposition. And the medical examiner

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Speaker 2: said that's about the best he could do. And if

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Speaker 2: you if you look at some of the things he

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Speaker 2: had on him, uh, in the way of tattoos and

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Speaker 2: other items. He was a mature Caucasian male.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, let's talk about the tattoos because I am

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Speaker 1: real interested in especially one of.

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Speaker 2: Them, the uh one of the uh, the most distinctive

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Speaker 2: one he had on his back, and it was if

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Speaker 2: you remember back in the seventies, I guess it was

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Speaker 2: maybe the early eighties, there was the old keep on

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Speaker 2: trucking tattoo where they had the guy came keeping back

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Speaker 2: and he's got taken big long strides and it's and

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Speaker 2: this was pretty much crossed some shoulder to shoulder to

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Speaker 2: his back, and he had one finger that appeared to

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Speaker 2: be trying to touch down on what appeared to be

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Speaker 2: a either a mirror or a saucer or a razorblade

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Speaker 2: beside it, which was kind of indicative with drug use.

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Speaker 2: He also had a tattoo on his right chest of

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Speaker 2: the old original Mickey Mouse cartoon steamboat Willie. It was

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Speaker 2: on his right chest. And then he had a amateur

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Speaker 2: tattoo on his right upper arm that said.

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Speaker 1: Mob Okay, now those if you know this person, that

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Speaker 1: is pretty distinctive. The one on the back, that's the

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Speaker 1: one that got my attention the most. It's a big tattoo,

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Speaker 1: is an unusual tattoo. So I think that's something that

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Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna be able to put out and

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Speaker 1: show y'all some photographs of Now. He was also wearing

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Speaker 1: a T shirt, flannel shirt, blue jeans, and insulated coveralls.

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Speaker 1: Now Chief. He was also wearing a ring, a commemorative ring.

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Speaker 1: What was that about?

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Speaker 2: He had on it Manifat actually by battle for and

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Speaker 2: it was a ring that was obtained through the Missouri

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Speaker 2: Pacific Railroad for employees and people that had worked for

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Speaker 2: the Missouri Pacific and its best. They said that the

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Speaker 2: Missouri Pacific was actually acquired by the Union Pacific in

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four, and there's a lot of records that

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Speaker 2: didn't make the cut. This ring, they said they were distributed,

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Speaker 2: to the best of their knowledge, the Missouri Pacific Historical

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Speaker 2: Society in Kansas City said that this ring was distributed

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Speaker 2: between eighty and eighty two. On the it's a bluestone

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Speaker 2: and it had Kansas Division, which that line would have

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Speaker 2: run from Kansas City to Pueblo, Colorado. I don't know what.

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Speaker 2: From the other artifacts he had in his possession tell

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Speaker 2: me that he was probably a steel worker of some type,

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Speaker 2: pipefitter that type. One thing was surprising to me. I

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Speaker 2: contacted Balfour to try to get a list of the

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Speaker 2: folks that during that time period bought those rings through

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Speaker 2: the Missouri Pacific in Kansas City, and they said they

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Speaker 2: didn't keep records anymore other than seven years. I kind

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Speaker 2: of find it hard to believe. I, you know, on

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Speaker 2: occasions where class rings have been returned to folks fifty

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Speaker 2: years ago. But I'm not quite finished with that yet.

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Speaker 2: We're going to try to go up a level on

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Speaker 2: that one.

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Speaker 1: I've heard that too. Wow. Okay. Inside the ring it

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Speaker 1: had some initials c AM.

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Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am it did. And also there was an old

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Speaker 2: zip O flip top lighter in the pocket of the

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Speaker 2: cover offs and it was also inscribed with the initial

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Speaker 2: C A M.

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Speaker 1: Well, that leads me to think this was the victim's ring,

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Speaker 1: because if they had guided out of a poem shop

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Speaker 1: or found it or stole it, they wouldn't have a

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Speaker 1: correspondent lighter.

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Speaker 2: Chances are yes, man, that's my guess as well, unless

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Speaker 2: there would be possibility that some relative like maybe his

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Speaker 2: father or somebody that was near and near to him

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Speaker 2: could have had this. And if that's the case, maybe

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Speaker 2: someone would know who this might have been. There's also

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Speaker 2: a very very unique craft made buckle on the belt.

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Speaker 2: It is a same as steel bucker and it is

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Speaker 2: in cases a Eisenhower silver dollar with tails facing out.

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Speaker 2: Very nice buckle. Like I it's well made, and I

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Speaker 2: contacted just because of what I believe his profession may

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Speaker 2: have been, has been a pipefitter or a welder. I

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Speaker 2: contacted Pipefitters Union in Kansas City because that's had the

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Speaker 2: Kansas City rain and they told me that those particular

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Speaker 2: belt buckles. They said that the craftsman in union guys,

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Speaker 2: when they went on a particularly big job, usually they

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Speaker 2: made some type of unique momento that identifies them as

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Speaker 2: being on that job. This particular belt buckle, he said,

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Speaker 2: fit the bill of a job that was in Kansas City,

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Speaker 2: and it was the Folly Corporation, and it would have

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Speaker 2: been somewhere seventies and eighties. It was a pretty long

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Speaker 2: project that was a chemical plan, So that does fit

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Speaker 2: right with thing. He may have been a pipefitter and

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Speaker 2: also depending on his age, he literally could have been

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Speaker 2: a pipe fitter for the railroad or worked as a

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Speaker 2: welder in the mechanical shop or in the car shop.

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Speaker 2: I was told there was a possibility that they could

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Speaker 2: have been used an outside union labor. Of those particular jobs.

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Speaker 2: Usually the railroad tried to stay in house, but sometimes

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Speaker 2: work volume overwhelming them, and that was a possibility as well,

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Speaker 2: which would fit hand in glove the ring, the belt buckle.

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Speaker 2: It all makes sense now. I have contacted the union

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Speaker 2: financial guy that is there now and with the Pipe

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Speaker 2: Fitters Union five point fifty three in Kansas City, and

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Speaker 2: he says that he was going to check with some

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Speaker 2: other people he knew had participating in that job see

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Speaker 2: if maybe I hadn't heard anything back from him yet,

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Speaker 2: but I'm fully expecting to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Chief, Just so people know, West Point Lake is

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Speaker 1: really close to Interstate eighty five. It runs about thirty

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Speaker 1: five miles along the Chattahoochee at the Alabama Georgia line.

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Speaker 1: So this person could have been in Alabama, could have

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Speaker 1: been in Georgia. Do you have a feeling where he

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Speaker 1: originated from before he was found in the lake?

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Speaker 2: Well, there are also two fairly large Georgia Power price

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Speaker 2: just north of us on the Chattahoochie River, and they

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Speaker 2: would have employed certified welders. I'm sure Union guys to

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Speaker 2: for the pipe fitting work for Georgia Power, and I'm

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Speaker 2: kind of the opinion that he may have been there.

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Speaker 2: And there are several campgrounds and things where these guys

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Speaker 2: that they because they it's a traveling job and they

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Speaker 2: come on, they come on the scene, they work days

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Speaker 2: and then go home, maybe months and go home. But

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking this possibly he could have been working at

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Speaker 2: Plant Wansley, which was called Yellow Dirt. Also uh Plant Yates,

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Speaker 2: which is out of Highway sixteen. Both of them are

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Speaker 2: right along the Chatahoochee River and draw water for those

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Speaker 2: plants from the Chattahoochee, and both were involved in some

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Speaker 2: fairly headed construction back during the period that just were

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Speaker 2: taken place.

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Speaker 1: Now, the lake itself has about five hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: five miles a shoreline. Where he was found, is it

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Speaker 1: near woods, is it near a parking lot, is it

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Speaker 1: near a campground, like you said, a cabin?

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Speaker 2: Actually where he was found at the time in ninety

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Speaker 2: it was pretty remote. It was where Georgia Highway two

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Speaker 2: nineteen crosses the Shadohooche River, close to the headwaters of

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Speaker 2: the West Point Lake. He was probably a mile down

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Speaker 2: river and he was on the western shore. He'd washed

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Speaker 2: ashore and he was actually found by a fisherman recognized

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Speaker 2: as being a human body and call the authorities. And

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Speaker 2: what we've described is what was found.

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Speaker 1: Do you think he was shot there at the lake

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Speaker 1: or do you think he came in through the river?

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Speaker 2: He came in through the river. There's no doubt in

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Speaker 2: my mind about that. He had been a wash. Actually,

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Speaker 2: it was during the winter drawdown and he was ten

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Speaker 2: or fifteen feet from water up on the shoreline.

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Speaker 1: And when you say winter draw down, you mean the

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Speaker 1: lake is just lower in the winter.

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Speaker 2: It is west Point Lake, I think six hundred and

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Speaker 2: thirty five feet at summer proval above sea level, and

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Speaker 2: it draws down to six hundred It drops down ten

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Speaker 2: feet in the winter time. It was in March and

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Speaker 2: lake hadn't been maked back again. Of course, that does

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Speaker 2: fluctuate some with the amount of rain and whatnot. You know,

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Speaker 2: the reasion. They draw it down so to store water

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Speaker 2: in case, be able to store water in case have

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Speaker 2: a particular rainy season, and then don't have to dump

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Speaker 2: it all down river.

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Speaker 1: At one time, I just wanted to be sure the

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Speaker 1: folks listening and understood what winter draw down was. I

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Speaker 1: didn't know if they would know that term. So I

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Speaker 1: just want to be sure we're all on the safe page.

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Speaker 1: So one thing that you and I talked about is

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Speaker 1: you have a skull.

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Speaker 2: We do GBI had they retained the skull. I have

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Speaker 2: contact the crime lab. They have located that piece of

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Speaker 2: evidence all the way back to nineteen ninety and the

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Speaker 2: other remains were turned back down here after the autopsy

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Speaker 2: and they are located in the shadow Lown cemetery in

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Speaker 2: Lagrange and a pauper's grave. What our plan is at

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Speaker 2: this point is to contact a lab that is willing.

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Speaker 2: I I was hoping that GBI would try to extract

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Speaker 2: this DNA for us, but doesn't look like that's going

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Speaker 2: to happen, and I'll have to get see what I

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Speaker 2: can do to get a private lab to do it

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Speaker 2: for us.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, I'm pretty sure we can help you that.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I talked to Kelly Lawson over there,

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Speaker 1: and she is an amazing artist and she could do

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Speaker 1: a facial reconstruction for you and go ahead and get

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Speaker 1: a phase out there. She could make a poster, and

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Speaker 1: you know, along with the jewelry, I think we could do.

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Speaker 3: An unbelievable media blitz from Kansas to Colorado and say,

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Speaker 3: does anybody recognize this face along with this jewelry, because.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you, most men, if they wear any rings,

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Speaker 1: it's a wedding ring, maybe a college ring or sports ring,

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Speaker 1: but a work ring is rare. They're out there. But

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Speaker 1: if it's not a Masonic ring or a wedding ring

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Speaker 1: or a college football you know, bowl ring, most men

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Speaker 1: don't wear a lot of jewelry. So for this man

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Speaker 1: to have that ring and the belt buckle, I think

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Speaker 1: that's significant.

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Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, along with that lighter it was inscribed. You know,

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Speaker 2: old Zippo lighters are hard to find, but you know

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Speaker 2: that quite hard to find. But still that was a

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Speaker 2: point where you know, everybody just about going to the

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Speaker 2: disposable stuff, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and like you said, being engraved, I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: something you just cannot put on the shelf.

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Speaker 2: Den Graven was not a bad quality either. It was

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Speaker 2: like the jewelry store maybe had done it. Of course,

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Speaker 2: a baalpoor ring. Again, I was shocked when they said

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Speaker 2: they kept. Of course, the person that I talked to

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Speaker 2: in customer service and it's like everything else been computerized

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Speaker 2: and about now, I guess it's a possibility that if

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Speaker 2: you've talked to the right folks, you can find somebody

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Speaker 2: to go into an archive somewhere and maybe dig out

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Speaker 2: some information for us.

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Speaker 1: Right, and the person in customer service probably knows they

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Speaker 1: can only go back seven years, that's all their capability

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Speaker 1: is on their computer. But to your point, there's some

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Speaker 1: archive somewhere and you get the right person on the phone,

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Speaker 1: and here's the thing. Let's talk a little bit cheap.

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Speaker 1: And this is why I say to everybody listening to

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Speaker 1: Zone seven, we need your help. Y'all may think of

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Speaker 1: something cheap and I hadn't thought about. But you know,

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Speaker 1: every now and then on a gold case, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: hit a wall and it's nothing to do with your

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Speaker 1: investigative skills or what you've thought to do. It is

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Speaker 1: what it is. So I called the Missing Persons Unit

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Speaker 1: at the Kansas City Police Department because I thought six

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Speaker 1: feet one hundred and eighty with a keep on trunk

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Speaker 1: and tattoo, that's gonna take me about four minutes. But

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Speaker 1: they told me in all of their digitized files that

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety was a gap missing. They don't have it digitized.

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Speaker 2: And I thought something as well. You know, the only

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Speaker 2: thing separates Kansas City, Kansas and Kansas City, Missouri is

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Speaker 2: the river. Back in the day, you know, when methamphetamine

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Speaker 2: was just getting started. You know, Kansas City, Missouri was

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Speaker 2: a mess of methamp metha amphetamine capital of the world.

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Speaker 2: Did you check with Kansas City, Kansas, because that's what

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Speaker 2: was on the ring. Did you check with Missouri as well?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: But the detective that I talked about it and I

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Speaker 1: looked through NamUs. I went there instead, but I hadn't

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Speaker 1: got there yet, but I went there because of what

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Speaker 1: was on the ring. I thought, that's the most you know,

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Speaker 1: a to b to look at. But then I went

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Speaker 1: to the newspaper and I tried to find the archives myself,

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Speaker 1: and then I called a reporter at the Kansas City

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Speaker 1: Star and just said, I just want to know if

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Speaker 1: anybody's done some articles, if family members are looking for somebody,

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Speaker 1: if police are looking for somebody. And he said he

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Speaker 1: would go through the archives and call me. But I

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Speaker 1: don't have a response yet, but he said either way

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Speaker 1: he would call me back. So I'm hoping tomorrow, maybe Thursday,

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Speaker 1: I'll hear something.

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Speaker 2: I got to say one thing for your tenacious well

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Speaker 2: you're today.

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Speaker 1: I'm just trying to follow you. But I mean, these

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Speaker 1: are things you know a lot of times, and you

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Speaker 1: know this better than anybody. You may have something and

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Speaker 1: you say, well, I got a white female thirty to

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Speaker 1: forty five, you know, five six, whatever, and that's it.

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Speaker 1: He's got so many things that are unique about him.

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Speaker 2: It is you know, I came out of retirement and uh,

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Speaker 2: the sheriff down here, Sheriff James Woodruff. He asked me

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Speaker 2: to come and look at some cold cases and so

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Speaker 2: far been pretty successful, and this one was one of

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Speaker 2: the ones who has been on the shelf for a

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Speaker 2: long time and uh, and there was credible work done

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Speaker 2: on it. They actually contacted the railroad and got a

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Speaker 2: list of employees. But the stumbling block is that when

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Speaker 2: they traded over from the Missouri Pacific and it was

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Speaker 2: assumed by the Union Pacific, it was a fair amount

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Speaker 2: of history loss there in the way of records. And

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Speaker 2: but the guy with the hit Missouri Pacific UH Historical Society,

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Speaker 2: and it's a pretty incredible outfit. I mean, they have

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Speaker 2: conventions and a lot of the people stay together and

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Speaker 2: they're trying to help me with this as well, or

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Speaker 2: doing all they can because they don't have access to

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Speaker 2: those records anymore in the Union Pacific at the time

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Speaker 2: they sent what they had in ninety but that was

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Speaker 2: nearly ten years after they were required. And I'm thinking

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Speaker 2: that he might have been an outside guy that was working,

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Speaker 2: you know, through the Union with the.

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Speaker 1: Railroad well thirty four years. You know, somebody might have

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Speaker 1: just started with the railroad and they gave it thirty years.

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Speaker 1: And if they go to maybe a convention or reunion.

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Speaker 1: You never know, they may remember, oh.

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Speaker 4: You member, Oh you know Joe went missing because again

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Speaker 4: he's wearing the insulated coveralls, so that would be indicative

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Speaker 4: of somebody working outside.

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Speaker 1: So was this done right after work? Was this done

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Speaker 1: on the lunch break? Was this done on the way

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Speaker 1: to work?

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Speaker 2: You know, I thought about something else too, Cheryl. We

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Speaker 2: need to check into is he could have moved his

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Speaker 2: union membership to Atlanta. Yes, And the way that works,

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Speaker 2: you know, the union companies call one outfit that a

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Speaker 2: large outfit that were doing work at Yellow Dirt that

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Speaker 2: was using union labor was Flori Daniel and they're out

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Speaker 2: of South Carolina, but their worldwide outfit. And I need

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Speaker 2: to be able to get in touch with a living,

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Speaker 2: breathing soul at Flori Daniel. It might have some access

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Speaker 2: to some records from back then where somebody might not

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Speaker 2: have showed up to pick up a check or something

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Speaker 2: like that.

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Speaker 1: That's smart, Chief. You know, I am a firm believer

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Speaker 1: in the media being a tool on cold cases.

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Speaker 2: Well, absolutely, there's nothing better.

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Speaker 1: Actually, there's nothing better. And you know, I try to

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Speaker 1: get young guys to understand that all the time. But

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Speaker 1: you know, they just say they're distrusting of the media

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Speaker 1: and whatever. But in a case like this, I believe

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Speaker 1: that's going to be the ticket.

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Speaker 2: I I do that I do as well. Information and

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Speaker 2: its ability to travel will be the only thing that

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Speaker 2: will always crime. We might get extremely lucky, and because

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Speaker 2: in ninety our guy is not going to be in

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Speaker 2: a coatisbank.

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Speaker 1: That's right?

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Speaker 2: If we were extremely lucky, I mean to the point

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Speaker 2: of we're talking looking at chickens teeth. By chance a

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Speaker 2: member of his family has thrown in to twenty three

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Speaker 2: and me or ancestry dot com. In those databases cross match,

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Speaker 2: we might find somebody in a family tree that's relative

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Speaker 2: of his. But other than that, it's going to be

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Speaker 2: word of mouth, and with the help of the media

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Speaker 2: and folks like good people like you, will be the

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Speaker 2: only thing they ever solved this one. I can't tell

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Speaker 2: you again how much I appreciate your interest and all

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Speaker 2: the things that you do. I've been very, very fortunate

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Speaker 2: in my career and I can't do anything but admire

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Speaker 2: what you do and what you have done that for

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Speaker 2: that matter, for the help that you rendered to me

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Speaker 2: this last little case a couple months ago where you

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Speaker 2: actually came out and gave us your time to help

355
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Speaker 2: us with determining where we think of homicide had taken place,

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Speaker 2: and with the information that you helped us gather, I've

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Speaker 2: been able we turned it over to Fulton County and

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Speaker 2: they've gone back now and did an extensive search in

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Speaker 2: the place that you've indicated that you thought there was

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Speaker 2: evidence of the crime. And had it not been for that,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if we'd got any of that done

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Speaker 2: in that case, will we prosecuted? And I think we're

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Speaker 2: going to be able to bring somebody to.

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Speaker 1: Justice for well, you know, good and well anytime you

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Speaker 1: pull up and say hop in the front seat of

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Speaker 1: patrol car, I'm gone. I mean, is an honor to

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Speaker 1: work with you. You know that. And I tell you here's

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Speaker 1: what we're gonna do. We're gonna put a story together

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Speaker 1: for Crime Online, which will include the photographs that you

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Speaker 1: have sent to me and what we talked about, just

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Speaker 1: a brief story, and we're going to get this thing

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Speaker 1: really pushed between Kansas City, Colorado, Georgia, and Alabama and

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Speaker 1: see what we can come up with.

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Speaker 2: Well, I prove, like again, I appreciate you know all

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Speaker 2: the help that you're doing. Because of your position, you know,

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Speaker 2: with dealing with folks in the media, you're so much

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Speaker 2: more well equipped to know the availability of being able

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Speaker 2: to use them as a tool, even more so than

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Speaker 2: I do. And again I appreciate it very much.

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Speaker 1: Here, well, you know, we both know that little low

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Speaker 1: girl out of Bibb County. I think we can get

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Speaker 1: some attention put on this thing. We'll see what we

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Speaker 1: can do. But I appreciate you too, and you know

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Speaker 1: all the Zone seven we're fixing to go to work again.

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Speaker 2: I just appreciate what you do and it's going to help.

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Speaker 2: You been to me and it's been invable, and I appreciate, Yes.

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Speaker 1: Sir, y'all almost end Zone seven. The way that I

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Speaker 1: always do with a quote for me, jewelry is a

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Speaker 1: way of keeping memories alive, Lily Collins. I'm Cheryl McCollum

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Speaker 1: and this is Zone seven.