WEBVTT - Marlo Thomas is Still That Girl 0:00:02.320 --> 0:00:05.320 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:09.959 Thing from My Heart Radio. Over the course of her 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:15.600 illustrious career, Marlo Thomas has broken barriers for women. As 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:20.160 an award winning actress, Marlowe became a household name from 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:23.919 her portrayal of Anne Marie, the lead in the television 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:27.320 show That Girl, a woman who in the late sixties 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:43.560 wanted a career more than a family. An outspoken feminist, 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:47.199 marlow then used her fame to launch Free to Be 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:50.840 You and Me, which was first an album than a book, 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:54.520 and eventually an Emmy and Peabody Award winning TV show 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:58.920 for children that challenged gender norms and became a touchstone 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:13.639 for a general ration of feminists. Her best selling books 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:18.200 include a memoir about growing up the adored daughter of 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:22.520 TV star Danny Thomas, and just last year, she and 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:26.760 her husband Phil Donahue released a book and podcast of 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:31.880 marriage advice called from interviews with other happy, long lasting couples. 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:37.160 As a philanthropist, she's continued her family's support for St. 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:41.840 Jude's Children's Research Hospital in Memphis, which her father founded 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:45.279 in nineteen sixty two. All in all, quite a life 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:49.880 for that girl growing up in Beverly Hills. Marlowe says 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.680 she and her siblings spent a lot of time on 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:56.200 the set of The Danny Thomas Show, her father's TV series, 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:00.280 which ran for eleven seasons between nineteen fifty three to 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:03.840 nineteen sixty four. We all used to work at the 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.720 studio in the summer, you know, running film back and forth, 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.520 and when we could drive, we'd drop off scripts. So 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:14.080 we were kind of like interns, and my dad would 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:17.080 pay us an allowance to keep us off the street. 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:19.640 And my dad was a kind of guy, and I 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:21.920 have a feeling you're this way. He loved having his 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:25.440 kids around him. He just loved it. And when we 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:29.040 were children, we were allowed to sit in on writers meetings. 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:32.040 We'd sit on the floor and the writers would all 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.880 be talking about coming up stories or my dad's act 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:38.000 in Las Vegas, and I would laugh and Dad would say, Oh, 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:40.160 my kid loves it. Why did you like that, honey? 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:42.720 What was funny about that to you? He was interested. 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:45.880 And then sometimes I'd say something and he'd say, my 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:48.560 kids are so funny. They are funnier than I am. 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.240 So he gave us this feeling. He kind of empowered us. 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:54.400 I mean, I always thought I was brilliant, and I 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:56.200 have no idea if I am or I am not, 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:58.480 but I think I am because he said I was, 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:00.919 and he did that for all of us. He gave 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.480 us that. It's like Lauren Michaels would always say that 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.520 his kids were like his focus group. Yeah. I used 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:08.800 to say to Lauren, you know, you're a couple of 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:12.400 generations removed from some of the musical acts that are 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:14.760 starring on the show. Now, his daughter Sophie is older. 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.840 Now she's graduating college. But when Sophie was a teenager 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:20.120 and going to school in New York, I'd say to Lauren, 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:22.880 how do you determine who the musical acts are on 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.920 the show? And he'd say, who's ever in Sophie's iPod? 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.799 That's right, he just went to music stremely to see 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.639 who she was listening to. But tell people how the studio, 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:38.440 what studio was he at? It was a Desilu, Yeah, 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:40.680 and that was like what like Sunset Gower somewhere in 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:44.040 like Hollywood. Yeah, it was below Sunset on Gower. But 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.160 you were born in Michigan. Yeah, but for five minutes, 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:50.120 I was born in Detroit. Now, why was the family 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.560 in Detroit. My mom had a radio show there, the 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.640 Sweet Singer of Sweet Songs, and my dad came on 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.080 as an announcer and they fell in love. And then 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:01.360 he wanted to go to ship Cargo with the bigger nightclubs, 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:04.320 where he was really a nightclub performer. So she had 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.080 to make the decision in those days, give up the 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:10.040 show and go with the guy she loved to Chicago. 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:13.000 She got pregnant and that was the decision, and off 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.760 they went to Chicago for a couple of years, and 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.440 then a blast Vogo was coming through on whatever that was, 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:25.000 that Pacific Railroad. He represented Sinatra and Danny Kay and 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:27.920 Judy Garland, so he was very well known. And he 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:30.839 was told that there was a great comic he should 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.359 stop and see on his way to New York, and 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:35.919 he saw my father and he signed him up and 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:38.039 brought him to Hollywood right away. And he said to 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:39.960 my father, you know you're a star. You should come 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:43.200 to come to l Ay. That's a pattern of your family. 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:45.279 The women in your family marrying men that they meet 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.600 on radio shows and TV shows. Right, So you're you're 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.320 out there in the fifties, you moved to California. Where 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:53.560 did you go to school out there, Beverly Hills High School. No, 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.839 Marry Amount went to Mary. She went to a Catholic school. Yeah, 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.800 your father is an old school Lebanese and went to Mary. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.719 My husband went to Notre Dame. So we were raised 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:06.000 the same way. Actually, and he's from Cleveland and I'm 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:08.680 from Beverly Hills. But we have the same upbringing, really 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:14.480 strict Catholic upbringing. Yeah. Yeah. And when the time comes 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:19.279 for you to launch your own career, you start that 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:24.320 girl in nineteen six and you're a young woman. You're 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:28.200 very young. Right when I had done a pilot. You know, 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:33.160 everything in this business is wonderfully progressive. I had bumped 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:37.520 around doing seventy seven Sunset Strip and Dobie Gillis and 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:41.479 all these terrible shows. Lauren Baby did Doobie Gillis did 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:43.880 do Mr. Red. Not that bad, but pretty bad. I 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:47.120 did all those shows. I played a Chinese girl on Bonanza. 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:49.320 Nobody knew what to do with me. I was a 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:51.800 Chinese girl. I played the Hawaiian girl. I played an 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.040 Arabian girl. They never saw me as the girl next door. 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:57.760 You wouldn't get cast as the Chinese girl now right, 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:00.760 but with my coloring, I'm out of action, dark hair, 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.240 dark eyes, so they could only they never saw me 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:06.800 as the girl next door. But I was cast in 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.080 a pilot at Universal called twos Company, which was an 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.559 adorable show about a young couple, and it didn't sell. 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:16.960 But the head of the network called me, Edgar Sherrick, 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:20.200 and he said, Claire, All almost bought the show because 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.640 they think you can be a TV star, so we'd 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:25.520 like to talk to you. So I went in. I 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:27.960 was disappointed the show didn't sell because I loved it, 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:31.440 and they said, we want to do a show starring you. 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.359 And they gave me a whole bunch of scripts to read. 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:36.760 And I called him up and I said, all the 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:39.480 shows you've given me to read, the girl is the 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:43.360 wife of somebody, the secretary of somebody, the daughter of somebody. 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:45.680 Have you ever thought about doing a show with a girl? 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:48.440 Is that somebody? And he said, would anybody watch a 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:50.760 show like that? I said, I think so. When I 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:52.960 gave him a book Feminine Mystique, I said, read this. 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:54.560 He called me up and he said, this is what's 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.279 going to happen to my wife. And it did, actually, 0:06:57.680 --> 0:06:59.760 so we built a show based on that. A girl 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:02.679 like me graduated from college. I didn't want to get married, 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:04.400 wanted to be an actress, want to move to the 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.760 big city. And everybody said it wouldn't succeed. And that 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.920 first night, Wow, it got a forty share on ABC. Yeah, 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:13.960 and all of a sudden, I was the ultimate girl 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.480 next door, which was so funny because I could never 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:20.080 get cast like that. And then I became the girl 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.640 next door so much in people's minds that it's very 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:25.880 hard for me to play meaner people. The murderous. Yeah, 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:27.280 I have a script for you where you play a 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:29.840 woman that murders people. That's what I want. I'm having 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:33.320 trouble raising money for the film that us and I'll 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:35.560 do it for nothing. A lot of the financiers, a 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:37.720 lot of the investors I'm talking to, aren't buying you 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:39.760 as a murderous but I'll work on it. I can 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.280 do it. But let me ask you this. Obviously, in 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:46.600 the sixties, the looming cultural reality is the Vietnam War, 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:49.880 and a lot of programming and a lot of music 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.880 and things are things that help us to forget and feminism, 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.760 in my mind, doesn't really get rolling till the seventies, 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.320 and Your and Your show is over by seventy one. 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:00.280 We're gonna talk later on about Free to Be You 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.360 and Me. But at the moment that you do the show, 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:06.720 you were doing Barefoot in the Park in London, right. 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:10.640 And I often tell people that when a company is 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:16.200 kind of mounting up their slate, it's a relatively new company. 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:19.080 So when HBO decides it wants to do original program 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.880 and they get Sarah Jessica to do Sex in the City, 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.040 they get Jimmiguan Delfini and David Chase to do the Sopranos, 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:27.280 and they pay these people a lot of money to 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:29.800 stay with the show and do the hit show for 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.719 a long long time. And really, ABC was a fledgling 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.720 network in the sixties. I mean there was CBS, there 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.720 was NBC, and ABC was like the redheaded step child 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:41.480 behind the two of them, and Leonard Goldberg and all 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.000 those people were building the company during that time. Did 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.400 you feel that was a part of their faith in 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:49.800 you and their needed you were part of building that network. Yeah, 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:53.640 money doesn't talk, it it speaks obscenities. Right, Claire Ale 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.080 was willing to put up all the money from my show. 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.840 They wanted a woman, a young woman, to sell shampoo, 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:03.040 and I was there girl. I mean, there wasn't another 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:06.040 girl they could see yet, and I'm sure there were many, 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.720 but there wasn't one. They saw me as I could 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:12.280 sell the shampoo and the conditioner and the makeup and everything, 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.199 and so they fixated on me, and that gave me 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:18.600 tremendous power to get my show done. And so as 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.680 we embarked on how to get this show written and created, 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:25.320 I used to play charades with Bill Persky and Sam Denoff, 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:28.319 who had won a couple of Emmys for The Dick 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.800 Van Dyke Show. And so I said to them ABC 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:34.559 wants to do a show with me, and we're looking 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.200 for writers. Would you ever consider writing a show about 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.520 a girl? Because they'd only written guy shows? And they 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.760 said that would be great. We'd love to talk about it. 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:47.400 Mike Nichols had cast me in Barefoot in London. They 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.320 came to London to see my opening night and then 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.760 they decided to do it, and so they wrote the 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:57.800 pilot and when it's sold, they weren't willing to sign 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:00.880 up for five years. Nobody really wants to sign the 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:03.320 five year contract, as you know, everybody, you know, we 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:06.440 cringe when we see a five year contract. And Danny 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.040 Arnold was going to be the producer. He only wanted 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.800 to sign up for two years billion sound. So the 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.559 only person who said I'll be here for five years 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:18.360 was me, So I became the producer. Otherwise, had they 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:21.080 said it, they probably would have been the producer. So 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:24.120 not only did I become the producer, I own the negative. 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:27.600 I own the whole thing. And that only happened because 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:29.480 I was the only one who said I'll do it, 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:33.800 and I had learned so much working from my father 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.480 at the studio. Nothing was a mystery. And you know, 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:41.400 in every profession, whether it's show business or law or 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:45.960 interior design or whatever it is, it's mysterious. But when 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.720 you know the language, it isn't. I mean, I knew 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:50.600 what a scrim was, and it with dailies where I 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:53.160 knew what the editing machine with the three heads looked like. 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:55.480 I knew what musical scoring was. I knew what a 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.520 red tape was. I knew it all so because I 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:02.000 had just been a buzz gone the wall, being the 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:04.160 one who carried the film from one end of the 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.320 studio to the other, and been interested and sat in 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:11.800 and watched people. I was very knowledgeable, and I certainly 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:15.160 was knowledgeable about comedy. I mean I knew comedy. I 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:17.040 done Barefoot in the Park, I done under the Young 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:20.080 Me Contry. I had done Class Menagerie. I had done 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:24.000 a million plays by then. I was only years old. 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:26.880 But as you know, when you start out, you're just 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:30.760 doing stock, you know, or three city plays. I did 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:33.240 two for the Seesaw in three cities. So I was 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:35.600 very good on the stage. I mean I had my 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:39.400 sea legs, so I was ready. You know. Whenever I 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:43.000 speak at colleges and stuff, and people asked me, you know, 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:45.480 how do I get started? I said, started a little theater. 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:48.400 Get into little theater, and do as many plays as 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.200 you can do, because I believe everybody gets a shot, 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:54.199 but not everybody gets a second shot. But if you're 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.680 ready for your first shot, I was. When I was 0:11:56.800 --> 0:12:00.360 cast by Mike and Barefoot. I auditioned for him about 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.600 I don't know a hundred people. They gave me Marty 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:05.880 Milner as my partner. We said, how do you do it? 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.880 Got up on staff, Yeah, and I got the part. 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:12.320 And Mike said to me later, who are you what 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.120 have you done? And I told him, for a kid, 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.000 I was pretty seasoned and so I was ready. So 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.400 when I came back from Barefoot, I was really strong. 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.320 I've been a year there and I was very strong, 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:29.280 And so by strong, I mean not scared, knowing how 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:33.360 to do it and trusting my instincts. I love working 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.920 with actors. I love being a part of a company, 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:39.240 and we had a great company. Ted Bessel was as 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:41.880 a propos of what you said about, you know, being 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.079 in the theater. I always tell people when they're younger, 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.800 I say do anything, as I don't have a lot 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:49.959 of pride about what you do. Don't say no to anything. 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.000 You've got to put that energy out there and give 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:53.840 it up, you know what I mean. Now, I know 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.199 that the world was much smaller than it is now. 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:59.880 Now there's so many shows. There's too many shows. There's 0:12:59.920 --> 0:13:01.760 no way we can have everything be good. I mean, 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.200 there's just too much content out there, and and everybody's 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:07.920 chasing the same actress, everybody's chasing the same writers. And 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:10.960 for you, back then per Sky and these famous writers, 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:14.160 I'm imagining that the television landscape was very finite back then, 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.719 so finding good writers there weren't a lot of them 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.160 were there right right now? They weren't. No, they were 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.679 pretty stellar. The show was that good because they were 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:27.280 so good as you. Danny Arnold later created Barney Miller, 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.640 which is a fantastic show, and Billy went on to 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.559 do Kayton Alley and a whole lot of very good 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.040 women shows. He got to become a real guru for 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:40.000 women shows. They were very gifted people, and they the 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:42.600 thing is that they would rewrite everything. You know, we'd 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.000 get a script and it would be kind of so so, 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:48.080 but it had a good premise, and they rewrite the 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:49.839 hell out of it, bring it back to the table, 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:52.880 and it was fantastic. And then the person whose name 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:54.840 was on it would win an Emmy for it. And 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:57.280 then somebody like you would call and say, is this 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.480 the same Joe Blow that you had? Because his is 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:08.000 not very good. Our guys had completely redone it. Actress 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:13.360 and activist Marlowe Thomas Her push for equal rights was 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:17.720 part of a larger conversation about gender equality in the seventies. 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.760 Feminism was also a heated topic in my two thousand 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:27.080 twelve conversation with author Erica Jong and her daughter Molly Jong. Fast. 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:31.280 I think that women who are fourteen fifteen are in 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:35.680 the most difficult position they have ever been in modern society. 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:37.920 What do you think about I mean, I agree, I 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:40.080 think there's a lot of sexuality. I think it's not 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:45.080 explained to young girls in a way very confusing Molly. 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.800 But I think that's a legacy of the feminist movement. 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.440 I mean, we said we want a legacy of the 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.480 feminist movement. It is a legacy, and here I really 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:57.800 feel fierce. It is the legacy of a distortion of 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:02.800 women's desire for equal rights. Equal riots are not platforms, 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:07.040 shoots and naked clothes because but you can't blow up 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.040 an atom bomb and then choose how it's going to go. 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:14.520 Here more of my conversation with Erica Jong and Molly 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:19.400 young Fast at Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.880 Marlowe Thomas explains why she went to New York to 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:27.320 study acting with Lee Strasburg after her success on TV. 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.920 I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:48.240 As executive producer and star of That Girl, Marlowe Thomas 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.640 worked closely with the writers to make her character and 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:56.360 Marie more believable. Yeah, it's a regular company. You know. 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.600 You sit around and say, let's do an arc where 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.960 she's looking for a job and she gets these four jobs, 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:05.240 and let's do an arc where her father wants to 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:07.800 move back home, and you know, and so you you 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.960 talk about the arc, and and then we'd read, have 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:14.920 a table read, and and everybody would give their comments. 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:18.200 There were very few times where, you know, there were 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:23.600 any huge debates. You know, I've always felt about story 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:28.040 that what's right always wins. You know. The first year 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.320 was a little difficult because I was the only girl 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.880 on the staff. You know, they staffed the show. I 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:34.720 didn't staff the show. I didn't know any writers. I 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:36.800 was a kid. How would I know writers. So they 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:39.240 staffed the show with a lot of terrific guy writers, 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:42.240 in which I would say, I don't think a girl 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.480 would say that to her father, or I don't know 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:47.520 that's the way a girl would end an argument with 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:51.640 her boyfriend. So we'd have these debates. So finally Danny Arnold, 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:53.760 who was one of the smartest guys in the world, said, 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:56.480 you know what we need. We need a female story editor. 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.280 You can't be the only girl in the room and 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.160 so the female story editor came on, and that was 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:06.919 heaven because she was able from her expertise and her 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.320 ability to write, to say, you know, let's go this way. 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.600 The only real debate we ever had was they wanted 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.879 to be a wedding for the last show. Clara wanted 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:20.080 a wedding. ABC wanted a wedding. The producers wanted a wedding. 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.440 And I said, we can't do a wedding. We can't 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.359 end the show with a wedding. If we end the 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.120 show with a wedding. This audience, which has followed this 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:34.600 character for five years, she's independent, she doesn't want to 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.000 get married, she's not sure she wants to get married, 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:40.520 she wants a career. We've had so many of those conversations. 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.720 To have a wedding is to betray them. I think 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.159 we're saying that's the only happy ending, and lots of 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.000 shows end with weddings. I don't want this show to 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:53.520 end with a wedding. And that was a problem. That 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:56.560 was the only one. And the interesting thing is, I mean, 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.960 obviously they let me have it that way. And then 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.760 a couple of years later, Billy and Sambo said to me, 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:04.720 that was such a right idea, because of it had 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:08.520 gone into syndication. That way, the show was over. Once 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.040 you see the show run through and you see the wedding, 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:13.840 then you know how the story ends. But I would 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:17.359 have felt it would have been a wrong message to 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:20.200 say this is the only happy ending. And Alec, I'll 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:24.080 tell you the mail that poured in about that. Thank you, 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:26.960 thank you Marlon for not copping out. Thank you, thank 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:29.160 you for not ending with a wedding. I mean, they 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:32.399 really they wanted to see it. They've been hanging onto 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.480 the fact that this is the one single girl on television. 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.360 Had never been a single girl before. There's this one 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:41.480 single girl, and she doesn't get married at the end. 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:44.520 And I always had a thing growing up, which is 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:46.439 why I did Free to Be You and Me that 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:49.600 every princess married the prince. That was the only happy 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:52.840 ending of a fairy tale. And I hope your children, 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:54.480 in fact, I'm going to send you Free to Be 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.159 this week. Your children should listen to Free to Be 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:01.960 You and Me, because there is no one happy ending. 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:05.480 Your boys and your girls will have the happy ending 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:09.960 that they create for themselves, not one that goes along 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.760 with what every other boy and every other girl has done. 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:16.199 So when the show is over, when did you go 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:18.760 to the actor's studio after that? Because you were in 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:20.560 Hollywood doing the show. So when the shows are you 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:23.639 moved to New York. Well, I they wanted us to 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:25.840 do two more years, and they wanted me and Chatty 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.000 to get married. I didn't want to get married, but 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:29.880 they said, well, they're just two two more years because 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:31.600 they really needed that girl. I mean, there weren't a 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.480 lot of hits on ABC, as you remember. And I said, 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:36.879 I just can't I was a girl when we started. 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.320 I'm a woman now. I can't be the same little 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:41.560 girl running around trying to get a job. I mean 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.760 it's I'm too old now, you know, I'm thirty one. 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.800 That decide to move on and I got a script. 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:50.960 It was called Crackers. It was about a woman who 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:53.640 was a drunk and it was a very touching story. 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:56.639 And I read it and I thought, I don't know 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:00.640 how to do this. Everything I had done had been 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:04.359 in this comedic vein Barefoot in the Park and all 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:08.520 the stuff I've done, I mean even Glass Menagerie didn't 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.199 have that kind of character that you had to, you know, 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:13.600 to play a good drunk and to have come out 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:16.359 of that and all the would come from the withdrawal 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.160 to bring yourself out, yourself up. I didn't know how 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.080 to do it. So I called Ellen Burson, who I 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:24.560 had met a few times. So she said, you got 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:26.840 to go to leave Strasburg. So I called him. He 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:28.760 said he'd meet me. I flew to New York and 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:31.360 he said to me, you're a big story. You've got 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:33.480 a lot of awards. What do you want to come 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:36.520 to class for. I said, because I only know how 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:38.880 to do what I know how to do, and I've 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:43.760 gotten by on a lot of charm and comedy instinct. 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:46.520 He said, don't look a gift horse in the mouth, 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:50.000 my dear. I said, I'm not complaining. I'm just saying, 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:53.880 that's that's what I got, That's my whole bag. So 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:58.199 he said okay, And after that I started doing work. 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.440 I mean, I want an Emmy is Best Dramatic Actress 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:06.119 playing a schizophrenic. After that that Lee Grant cast me 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:09.440 in It was called Nobody's Child. And I don't I'm 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:11.760 not saying this to toot my own horn, but I'm 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.920 saying this to prove what acting classes do for you. 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:20.840 I was up against Vanessa Redgrave, Katherine Hepburn, Jenna Rollins 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.480 and Mayor Winningham. And I won that Emmy, and I 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:28.200 would not have won that I had I not stopped 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:31.439 my career and worked on my work for three years. 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:36.640 And I say often to people, sometimes your career gets 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:39.240 in the way of your work. You've got to stop 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.720 and do your work and figure out what it is 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:46.000 you want. When I quit that girl, my father said 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:48.359