1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: Thing from My Heart Radio. Over the course of her 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: illustrious career, Marlo Thomas has broken barriers for women. As 4 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: an award winning actress, Marlowe became a household name from 5 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: her portrayal of Anne Marie, the lead in the television 6 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: show That Girl, a woman who in the late sixties 7 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: wanted a career more than a family. An outspoken feminist, 8 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: marlow then used her fame to launch Free to Be 9 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 1: You and Me, which was first an album than a book, 10 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: and eventually an Emmy and Peabody Award winning TV show 11 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: for children that challenged gender norms and became a touchstone 12 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:13,639 Speaker 1: for a general ration of feminists. Her best selling books 13 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: include a memoir about growing up the adored daughter of 14 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: TV star Danny Thomas, and just last year, she and 15 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: her husband Phil Donahue released a book and podcast of 16 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: marriage advice called from interviews with other happy, long lasting couples. 17 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: As a philanthropist, she's continued her family's support for St. 18 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: Jude's Children's Research Hospital in Memphis, which her father founded 19 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,279 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty two. All in all, quite a life 20 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: for that girl growing up in Beverly Hills. Marlowe says 21 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: she and her siblings spent a lot of time on 22 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: the set of The Danny Thomas Show, her father's TV series, 23 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: which ran for eleven seasons between nineteen fifty three to 24 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four. We all used to work at the 25 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: studio in the summer, you know, running film back and forth, 26 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: and when we could drive, we'd drop off scripts. So 27 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: we were kind of like interns, and my dad would 28 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: pay us an allowance to keep us off the street. 29 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: And my dad was a kind of guy, and I 30 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: have a feeling you're this way. He loved having his 31 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: kids around him. He just loved it. And when we 32 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: were children, we were allowed to sit in on writers meetings. 33 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: We'd sit on the floor and the writers would all 34 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: be talking about coming up stories or my dad's act 35 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, and I would laugh and Dad would say, Oh, 36 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: my kid loves it. Why did you like that, honey? 37 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: What was funny about that to you? He was interested. 38 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: And then sometimes I'd say something and he'd say, my 39 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: kids are so funny. They are funnier than I am. 40 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: So he gave us this feeling. He kind of empowered us. 41 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I always thought I was brilliant, and I 42 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: have no idea if I am or I am not, 43 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: but I think I am because he said I was, 44 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: and he did that for all of us. He gave 45 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: us that. It's like Lauren Michaels would always say that 46 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: his kids were like his focus group. Yeah. I used 47 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: to say to Lauren, you know, you're a couple of 48 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: generations removed from some of the musical acts that are 49 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: starring on the show. Now, his daughter Sophie is older. 50 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: Now she's graduating college. But when Sophie was a teenager 51 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: and going to school in New York, I'd say to Lauren, 52 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: how do you determine who the musical acts are on 53 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: the show? And he'd say, who's ever in Sophie's iPod? 54 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: That's right, he just went to music stremely to see 55 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: who she was listening to. But tell people how the studio, 56 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: what studio was he at? It was a Desilu, Yeah, 57 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: and that was like what like Sunset Gower somewhere in 58 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: like Hollywood. Yeah, it was below Sunset on Gower. But 59 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: you were born in Michigan. Yeah, but for five minutes, 60 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: I was born in Detroit. Now, why was the family 61 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: in Detroit. My mom had a radio show there, the 62 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: Sweet Singer of Sweet Songs, and my dad came on 63 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: as an announcer and they fell in love. And then 64 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: he wanted to go to ship Cargo with the bigger nightclubs, 65 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: where he was really a nightclub performer. So she had 66 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: to make the decision in those days, give up the 67 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: show and go with the guy she loved to Chicago. 68 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: She got pregnant and that was the decision, and off 69 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: they went to Chicago for a couple of years, and 70 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: then a blast Vogo was coming through on whatever that was, 71 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: that Pacific Railroad. He represented Sinatra and Danny Kay and 72 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: Judy Garland, so he was very well known. And he 73 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: was told that there was a great comic he should 74 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 1: stop and see on his way to New York, and 75 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 1: he saw my father and he signed him up and 76 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: brought him to Hollywood right away. And he said to 77 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: my father, you know you're a star. You should come 78 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: to come to l Ay. That's a pattern of your family. 79 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: The women in your family marrying men that they meet 80 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: on radio shows and TV shows. Right, So you're you're 81 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: out there in the fifties, you moved to California. Where 82 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: did you go to school out there, Beverly Hills High School. No, 83 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: Marry Amount went to Mary. She went to a Catholic school. Yeah, 84 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: your father is an old school Lebanese and went to Mary. 85 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: My husband went to Notre Dame. So we were raised 86 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: the same way. Actually, and he's from Cleveland and I'm 87 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: from Beverly Hills. But we have the same upbringing, really 88 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: strict Catholic upbringing. Yeah. Yeah. And when the time comes 89 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: for you to launch your own career, you start that 90 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: girl in nineteen six and you're a young woman. You're 91 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: very young. Right when I had done a pilot. You know, 92 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: everything in this business is wonderfully progressive. I had bumped 93 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: around doing seventy seven Sunset Strip and Dobie Gillis and 94 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 1: all these terrible shows. Lauren Baby did Doobie Gillis did 95 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: do Mr. Red. Not that bad, but pretty bad. I 96 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: did all those shows. I played a Chinese girl on Bonanza. 97 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: Nobody knew what to do with me. I was a 98 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: Chinese girl. I played the Hawaiian girl. I played an 99 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: Arabian girl. They never saw me as the girl next door. 100 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: You wouldn't get cast as the Chinese girl now right, 101 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: but with my coloring, I'm out of action, dark hair, 102 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: dark eyes, so they could only they never saw me 103 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: as the girl next door. But I was cast in 104 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: a pilot at Universal called twos Company, which was an 105 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,559 Speaker 1: adorable show about a young couple, and it didn't sell. 106 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: But the head of the network called me, Edgar Sherrick, 107 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: and he said, Claire, All almost bought the show because 108 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: they think you can be a TV star, so we'd 109 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: like to talk to you. So I went in. I 110 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: was disappointed the show didn't sell because I loved it, 111 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: and they said, we want to do a show starring you. 112 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 1: And they gave me a whole bunch of scripts to read. 113 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: And I called him up and I said, all the 114 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 1: shows you've given me to read, the girl is the 115 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: wife of somebody, the secretary of somebody, the daughter of somebody. 116 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: Have you ever thought about doing a show with a girl? 117 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: Is that somebody? And he said, would anybody watch a 118 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: show like that? I said, I think so. When I 119 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: gave him a book Feminine Mystique, I said, read this. 120 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: He called me up and he said, this is what's 121 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: going to happen to my wife. And it did, actually, 122 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: so we built a show based on that. A girl 123 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,679 Speaker 1: like me graduated from college. I didn't want to get married, 124 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: wanted to be an actress, want to move to the 125 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: big city. And everybody said it wouldn't succeed. And that 126 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: first night, Wow, it got a forty share on ABC. Yeah, 127 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I was the ultimate girl 128 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: next door, which was so funny because I could never 129 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: get cast like that. And then I became the girl 130 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: next door so much in people's minds that it's very 131 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: hard for me to play meaner people. The murderous. Yeah, 132 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: I have a script for you where you play a 133 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: woman that murders people. That's what I want. I'm having 134 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: trouble raising money for the film that us and I'll 135 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: do it for nothing. A lot of the financiers, a 136 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: lot of the investors I'm talking to, aren't buying you 137 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: as a murderous but I'll work on it. I can 138 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: do it. But let me ask you this. Obviously, in 139 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: the sixties, the looming cultural reality is the Vietnam War, 140 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: and a lot of programming and a lot of music 141 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: and things are things that help us to forget and feminism, 142 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: in my mind, doesn't really get rolling till the seventies, 143 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: and Your and Your show is over by seventy one. 144 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk later on about Free to Be You 145 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: and Me. But at the moment that you do the show, 146 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: you were doing Barefoot in the Park in London, right. 147 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: And I often tell people that when a company is 148 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: kind of mounting up their slate, it's a relatively new company. 149 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: So when HBO decides it wants to do original program 150 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: and they get Sarah Jessica to do Sex in the City, 151 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: they get Jimmiguan Delfini and David Chase to do the Sopranos, 152 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: and they pay these people a lot of money to 153 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: stay with the show and do the hit show for 154 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,719 Speaker 1: a long long time. And really, ABC was a fledgling 155 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: network in the sixties. I mean there was CBS, there 156 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: was NBC, and ABC was like the redheaded step child 157 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: behind the two of them, and Leonard Goldberg and all 158 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: those people were building the company during that time. Did 159 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: you feel that was a part of their faith in 160 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: you and their needed you were part of building that network. Yeah, 161 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: money doesn't talk, it it speaks obscenities. Right, Claire Ale 162 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: was willing to put up all the money from my show. 163 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: They wanted a woman, a young woman, to sell shampoo, 164 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: and I was there girl. I mean, there wasn't another 165 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: girl they could see yet, and I'm sure there were many, 166 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: but there wasn't one. They saw me as I could 167 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: sell the shampoo and the conditioner and the makeup and everything, 168 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: and so they fixated on me, and that gave me 169 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: tremendous power to get my show done. And so as 170 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: we embarked on how to get this show written and created, 171 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: I used to play charades with Bill Persky and Sam Denoff, 172 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: who had won a couple of Emmys for The Dick 173 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: Van Dyke Show. And so I said to them ABC 174 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: wants to do a show with me, and we're looking 175 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: for writers. Would you ever consider writing a show about 176 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: a girl? Because they'd only written guy shows? And they 177 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: said that would be great. We'd love to talk about it. 178 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: Mike Nichols had cast me in Barefoot in London. They 179 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 1: came to London to see my opening night and then 180 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: they decided to do it, and so they wrote the 181 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: pilot and when it's sold, they weren't willing to sign 182 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: up for five years. Nobody really wants to sign the 183 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: five year contract, as you know, everybody, you know, we 184 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: cringe when we see a five year contract. And Danny 185 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: Arnold was going to be the producer. He only wanted 186 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: to sign up for two years billion sound. So the 187 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 1: only person who said I'll be here for five years 188 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: was me, So I became the producer. Otherwise, had they 189 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: said it, they probably would have been the producer. So 190 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: not only did I become the producer, I own the negative. 191 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: I own the whole thing. And that only happened because 192 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: I was the only one who said I'll do it, 193 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: and I had learned so much working from my father 194 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: at the studio. Nothing was a mystery. And you know, 195 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: in every profession, whether it's show business or law or 196 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: interior design or whatever it is, it's mysterious. But when 197 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: you know the language, it isn't. I mean, I knew 198 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: what a scrim was, and it with dailies where I 199 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: knew what the editing machine with the three heads looked like. 200 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: I knew what musical scoring was. I knew what a 201 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: red tape was. I knew it all so because I 202 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: had just been a buzz gone the wall, being the 203 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: one who carried the film from one end of the 204 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: studio to the other, and been interested and sat in 205 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: and watched people. I was very knowledgeable, and I certainly 206 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: was knowledgeable about comedy. I mean I knew comedy. I 207 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: done Barefoot in the Park, I done under the Young 208 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: Me Contry. I had done Class Menagerie. I had done 209 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: a million plays by then. I was only years old. 210 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: But as you know, when you start out, you're just 211 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: doing stock, you know, or three city plays. I did 212 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: two for the Seesaw in three cities. So I was 213 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: very good on the stage. I mean I had my 214 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: sea legs, so I was ready. You know. Whenever I 215 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: speak at colleges and stuff, and people asked me, you know, 216 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: how do I get started? I said, started a little theater. 217 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: Get into little theater, and do as many plays as 218 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: you can do, because I believe everybody gets a shot, 219 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 1: but not everybody gets a second shot. But if you're 220 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: ready for your first shot, I was. When I was 221 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: cast by Mike and Barefoot. I auditioned for him about 222 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: I don't know a hundred people. They gave me Marty 223 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: Milner as my partner. We said, how do you do it? 224 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: Got up on staff, Yeah, and I got the part. 225 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: And Mike said to me later, who are you what 226 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: have you done? And I told him, for a kid, 227 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: I was pretty seasoned and so I was ready. So 228 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: when I came back from Barefoot, I was really strong. 229 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: I've been a year there and I was very strong, 230 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: And so by strong, I mean not scared, knowing how 231 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: to do it and trusting my instincts. I love working 232 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: with actors. I love being a part of a company, 233 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: and we had a great company. Ted Bessel was as 234 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: a propos of what you said about, you know, being 235 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: in the theater. I always tell people when they're younger, 236 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: I say do anything, as I don't have a lot 237 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 1: of pride about what you do. Don't say no to anything. 238 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: You've got to put that energy out there and give 239 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: it up, you know what I mean. Now, I know 240 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: that the world was much smaller than it is now. 241 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: Now there's so many shows. There's too many shows. There's 242 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: no way we can have everything be good. I mean, 243 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: there's just too much content out there, and and everybody's 244 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: chasing the same actress, everybody's chasing the same writers. And 245 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: for you, back then per Sky and these famous writers, 246 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: I'm imagining that the television landscape was very finite back then, 247 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 1: so finding good writers there weren't a lot of them 248 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: were there right right now? They weren't. No, they were 249 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: pretty stellar. The show was that good because they were 250 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: so good as you. Danny Arnold later created Barney Miller, 251 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: which is a fantastic show, and Billy went on to 252 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 1: do Kayton Alley and a whole lot of very good 253 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: women shows. He got to become a real guru for 254 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: women shows. They were very gifted people, and they the 255 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: thing is that they would rewrite everything. You know, we'd 256 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: get a script and it would be kind of so so, 257 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: but it had a good premise, and they rewrite the 258 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:49,839 Speaker 1: hell out of it, bring it back to the table, 259 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: and it was fantastic. And then the person whose name 260 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: was on it would win an Emmy for it. And 261 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: then somebody like you would call and say, is this 262 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: the same Joe Blow that you had? Because his is 263 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: not very good. Our guys had completely redone it. Actress 264 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: and activist Marlowe Thomas Her push for equal rights was 265 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: part of a larger conversation about gender equality in the seventies. 266 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: Feminism was also a heated topic in my two thousand 267 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: twelve conversation with author Erica Jong and her daughter Molly Jong. Fast. 268 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: I think that women who are fourteen fifteen are in 269 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: the most difficult position they have ever been in modern society. 270 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: What do you think about I mean, I agree, I 271 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: think there's a lot of sexuality. I think it's not 272 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: explained to young girls in a way very confusing Molly. 273 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: But I think that's a legacy of the feminist movement. 274 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: I mean, we said we want a legacy of the 275 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: feminist movement. It is a legacy, and here I really 276 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: feel fierce. It is the legacy of a distortion of 277 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: women's desire for equal rights. Equal riots are not platforms, 278 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: shoots and naked clothes because but you can't blow up 279 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: an atom bomb and then choose how it's going to go. 280 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: Here more of my conversation with Erica Jong and Molly 281 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: young Fast at Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, 282 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: Marlowe Thomas explains why she went to New York to 283 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: study acting with Lee Strasburg after her success on TV. 284 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 285 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: As executive producer and star of That Girl, Marlowe Thomas 286 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: worked closely with the writers to make her character and 287 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: Marie more believable. Yeah, it's a regular company. You know. 288 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: You sit around and say, let's do an arc where 289 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: she's looking for a job and she gets these four jobs, 290 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: and let's do an arc where her father wants to 291 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: move back home, and you know, and so you you 292 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: talk about the arc, and and then we'd read, have 293 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: a table read, and and everybody would give their comments. 294 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: There were very few times where, you know, there were 295 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: any huge debates. You know, I've always felt about story 296 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: that what's right always wins. You know. The first year 297 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: was a little difficult because I was the only girl 298 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: on the staff. You know, they staffed the show. I 299 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: didn't staff the show. I didn't know any writers. I 300 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: was a kid. How would I know writers. So they 301 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: staffed the show with a lot of terrific guy writers, 302 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: in which I would say, I don't think a girl 303 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: would say that to her father, or I don't know 304 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: that's the way a girl would end an argument with 305 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: her boyfriend. So we'd have these debates. So finally Danny Arnold, 306 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: who was one of the smartest guys in the world, said, 307 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: you know what we need. We need a female story editor. 308 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: You can't be the only girl in the room and 309 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: so the female story editor came on, and that was 310 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: heaven because she was able from her expertise and her 311 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: ability to write, to say, you know, let's go this way. 312 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: The only real debate we ever had was they wanted 313 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: to be a wedding for the last show. Clara wanted 314 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: a wedding. ABC wanted a wedding. The producers wanted a wedding. 315 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: And I said, we can't do a wedding. We can't 316 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: end the show with a wedding. If we end the 317 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 1: show with a wedding. This audience, which has followed this 318 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: character for five years, she's independent, she doesn't want to 319 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: get married, she's not sure she wants to get married, 320 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: she wants a career. We've had so many of those conversations. 321 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: To have a wedding is to betray them. I think 322 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: we're saying that's the only happy ending, and lots of 323 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: shows end with weddings. I don't want this show to 324 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: end with a wedding. And that was a problem. That 325 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: was the only one. And the interesting thing is, I mean, 326 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: obviously they let me have it that way. And then 327 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: a couple of years later, Billy and Sambo said to me, 328 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: that was such a right idea, because of it had 329 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: gone into syndication. That way, the show was over. Once 330 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: you see the show run through and you see the wedding, 331 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: then you know how the story ends. But I would 332 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: have felt it would have been a wrong message to 333 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: say this is the only happy ending. And Alec, I'll 334 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: tell you the mail that poured in about that. Thank you, 335 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: thank you Marlon for not copping out. Thank you, thank 336 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: you for not ending with a wedding. I mean, they 337 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: really they wanted to see it. They've been hanging onto 338 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: the fact that this is the one single girl on television. 339 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 1: Had never been a single girl before. There's this one 340 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: single girl, and she doesn't get married at the end. 341 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: And I always had a thing growing up, which is 342 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 1: why I did Free to Be You and Me that 343 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: every princess married the prince. That was the only happy 344 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: ending of a fairy tale. And I hope your children, 345 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: in fact, I'm going to send you Free to Be 346 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 1: this week. Your children should listen to Free to Be 347 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: You and Me, because there is no one happy ending. 348 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: Your boys and your girls will have the happy ending 349 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: that they create for themselves, not one that goes along 350 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: with what every other boy and every other girl has done. 351 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 1: So when the show is over, when did you go 352 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: to the actor's studio after that? Because you were in 353 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: Hollywood doing the show. So when the shows are you 354 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: moved to New York. Well, I they wanted us to 355 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: do two more years, and they wanted me and Chatty 356 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: to get married. I didn't want to get married, but 357 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 1: they said, well, they're just two two more years because 358 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: they really needed that girl. I mean, there weren't a 359 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: lot of hits on ABC, as you remember. And I said, 360 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: I just can't I was a girl when we started. 361 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: I'm a woman now. I can't be the same little 362 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: girl running around trying to get a job. I mean 363 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: it's I'm too old now, you know, I'm thirty one. 364 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: That decide to move on and I got a script. 365 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: It was called Crackers. It was about a woman who 366 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: was a drunk and it was a very touching story. 367 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: And I read it and I thought, I don't know 368 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 1: how to do this. Everything I had done had been 369 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: in this comedic vein Barefoot in the Park and all 370 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: the stuff I've done, I mean even Glass Menagerie didn't 371 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 1: have that kind of character that you had to, you know, 372 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: to play a good drunk and to have come out 373 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: of that and all the would come from the withdrawal 374 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 1: to bring yourself out, yourself up. I didn't know how 375 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: to do it. So I called Ellen Burson, who I 376 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: had met a few times. So she said, you got 377 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: to go to leave Strasburg. So I called him. He 378 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: said he'd meet me. I flew to New York and 379 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 1: he said to me, you're a big story. You've got 380 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: a lot of awards. What do you want to come 381 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: to class for. I said, because I only know how 382 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 1: to do what I know how to do, and I've 383 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: gotten by on a lot of charm and comedy instinct. 384 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: He said, don't look a gift horse in the mouth, 385 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: my dear. I said, I'm not complaining. I'm just saying, 386 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: that's that's what I got, That's my whole bag. So 387 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 1: he said okay, And after that I started doing work. 388 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I want an Emmy is Best Dramatic Actress 389 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: playing a schizophrenic. After that that Lee Grant cast me 390 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: in It was called Nobody's Child. And I don't I'm 391 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: not saying this to toot my own horn, but I'm 392 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: saying this to prove what acting classes do for you. 393 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: I was up against Vanessa Redgrave, Katherine Hepburn, Jenna Rollins 394 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: and Mayor Winningham. And I won that Emmy, and I 395 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: would not have won that I had I not stopped 396 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: my career and worked on my work for three years. 397 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 1: And I say often to people, sometimes your career gets 398 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: in the way of your work. You've got to stop 399 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: and do your work and figure out what it is 400 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: you want. When I quit that girl, my father said 401 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: to me, you have to be crazy. You are the 402 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: heir apparent to Lucille Ball. I said, Daddy, I know 403 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: that's a great compliment, but I don't want to be 404 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: Lucille Ball. I respect Lucille Ball. She's a genius. That's 405 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: just out where I'm headed. I want to I want 406 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: to be a lot of other people now now free 407 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: to be you and me. How did that start? It 408 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: really happened because of my niece. As you as you 409 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: know and as you can hear from what I'm saying, 410 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: I was born a feminist. I mean I really was. 411 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: My father used to call me misindependence. As a child, 412 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: I always had an idea of what I wanted to do, 413 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: and I wanted to do a single girl on television. 414 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: I gave feminine mystique to the head of the network. 415 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: I was obviously always going in that direction. And and 416 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: when I was doing that, girl, I got a lot 417 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: of mail from young women that was shocking. I get 418 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: a letter from a sixteen year old girl who said, 419 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: I'm pregnant. I can't tell my father. Where can I go? 420 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: I'm twenty two years old and might have two children 421 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: and my husband beats me up. Where could I go? 422 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: So I said to my secretaries we called them at 423 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: the time, I had two of them. I said, I 424 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: don't know where the hell is somebody going in Duluth 425 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: if they're pregnant. Where does somebody go in Salt Lake 426 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: City if they're being beaten up? As I've looked around, 427 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: and we looked around, there wasn't any place. There were 428 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: no legal advisors. There's no place for a woman or 429 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: a girl to go for safety or counsel or anything 430 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: which politicized me. That's how I met Gloria Steinem and 431 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 1: all these women and created the Misfoundation for women. All 432 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: that happened because of the mail I got, because there 433 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,719 Speaker 1: was no place for women to go. But then my 434 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 1: sister had a baby, the first grandchild in our family, 435 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: and she was about four and a half or so, 436 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 1: and I was reading the books in her bedroom and 437 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: they were all the thing about the the boys do this, 438 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: and the girls do that, and the Princess Mary is 439 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: the prince at the end of the thing. And I 440 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: said to my sister, this is such rubbish. It took 441 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: us thirty years to get over this. You gotta get 442 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: her something else. So I went to the bookstore to 443 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: find something else, and there wasn't anything. So I decided 444 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: to do one on my own. So I created Free 445 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: to Be You and Me for her. I really had 446 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: no intentionive of becoming a big franchise. I just wanted 447 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: to do something that would have stories for boys and 448 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: girls that said they could be anything they wanted to be. 449 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: That it would be non racist and non sexist. And 450 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: so I got together with friends like shel Silverstein and 451 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: Herb Gardener and and Clei Band who had done the 452 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: music and lyrics for chorus Line, and Patty Chayevsky, he 453 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: was a friend of Herbies, and a bunch of people 454 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: we sat around and said, I said, okay, let's rewrite 455 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 1: our childhood. What would you have liked to have heard 456 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 1: when you were a kid, and her gardener said, I 457 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: would have liked to have heard that it was okay 458 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: for a boy to cry and that it wasn't sissy. 459 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: And Carol Hall wrote that wonderful song, It's all Right 460 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: to Cry, which has become a classic, and we got 461 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 1: Rosie Greer to sing it, which was great, and then 462 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 1: I and then I said, I want there to be 463 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 1: a story where the princess does not marry the prince 464 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 1: at the end and goes on to her own life, 465 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: and and she's not a blonde, she's a brunette like 466 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: me with olive skin. We did that one. We did Atlanta, 467 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: which she runs in the race and chooses her own life. 468 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: So we rewrote all the things and the company was 469 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: called Bill Records at the time, you know, I was 470 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,239 Speaker 1: a big shot, and so they made the record and 471 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: Alan Alda directed the written pieces that Mel Brooks to 472 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: play one of the babies with me, that the two 473 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: babies who don't know who's a boy and who's a girl, 474 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: and Mel and Carl Reiner wrote it. It It was hilariously funny. 475 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: They way we did the whole thing, and he said, 476 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: you know, you're not going to sell more than fifteen 477 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: thousand records. I said, that's okay. We're not doing this 478 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: for the money. We want to change the world, one 479 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: five year old at a time. Well, it went gold, 480 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: and it went platinum, and then we did the book 481 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: and it wasn't number one on the best seller lists 482 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 1: that we did the special one at Emmy and the Peabody. 483 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just because there's been nothing like it. 484 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: And just last week it was inducted into the Library 485 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: of Congress with albums along with Janet Jackson, Kermit the Frog, 486 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: and Thomas Edison, of all people. So when an idea 487 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: is right and it wasn't, you know, I didn't write 488 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: the pieces. I I conceived the idea and assigned the pieces. 489 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: But I'm not that kind of writer. I couldn't write 490 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: a song. But you know, Alec, I'm sure you feel 491 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: this in your work. If something comes organically from you, 492 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: as that girl did, as Free to Be did, is 493 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: something you really believe and you want to do. It 494 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: does touch other people, you know, It isn't like, oh, 495 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: I think it would be really commercial. If I did 496 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 1: a show about this, that's probably not going to be successful. 497 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: But if it comes out of your own desire to 498 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 1: write or wrong, or change the world, or express this 499 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: thing that's so on fire inside of you that has 500 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: a very good chance I believe of being successful. Actress 501 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: and activist Marlowe Thomas. This is It's all Right to Cry, 502 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: sung by Rosie Greer from Free to Be You and Me. 503 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 1: That's right, Rosie Greer, the NFL defensive tackle. It's all right, cry, Ryan, 504 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: get the fat out all of you. It's all right cry. 505 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 1: It might make you feel better when we come back. 506 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: Marlowe Thomas talks about her forty year marriage to talk 507 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: show host Phil Donohue. If you're enjoying this conversation, tell 508 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: a friend and be sure to follow Here's the Thing 509 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever 510 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening 511 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing. For much of the seventies, Marlowe 512 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: Thomas was a proud single woman with no interest in 513 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: getting married, and then a guest appearance on a daytime 514 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: talk show in changed everything. I just never wanted to 515 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: be married, you know, it just wasn't for me. I 516 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: I had an idea of what I wanted to do. 517 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: I wanted to go to London and do a play. 518 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: I wanted to be free to take any opportunity that 519 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: and I don't mean in a romantic way. I had 520 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 1: a lot of fabulous boyfriends, but I just I just 521 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: wanted to experience so much. And my husband got married 522 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: at twenty one, and he said to me one day, 523 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: how the hell did you have the guts not to 524 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: get married early? I said, because I'm a girl. I 525 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: knew damn well, if I got married, I'd be responsible 526 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: for the babies, for the house, for the husband, for 527 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: the everything I grew up with. That I know. I'm 528 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: of a Lebanese family and an Italian family, and there 529 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: are a lot like the Irish, as you and phil are. 530 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: You know. The mother runs the ruse. She takes care 531 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: of the children, and she has a thousand of them. 532 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: My father's one of ten, my mother's one of five. 533 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: My mother gave up her career and followed my father 534 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: around the country and really supported him in his career, 535 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: and that was her choice. I looked at that choice 536 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: and said, that's not for me. I wanted to be 537 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: my father. I wanted to be on stage. I used 538 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: to see my father in the Sands Hotel, in Las Vegas. 539 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: In his eyes would be shining and he was having 540 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: a ball and so happy. And that was it. I 541 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: I think I discovered what you say you're discovering now. 542 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: I discovered work made me happy. It made me happy 543 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: and my husband. In the last about six years, I 544 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: did a play off Broadway and to play on Broadway. 545 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: One was Elane May on Broadway and one was Joja 546 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: Petrol off Broadway. And Phil said to me, you're so 547 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: happy when you do a play. As far as I've 548 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: been certain, you could do a play every year, I'm 549 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: the happiest when I'm on stage. And so I made 550 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: that decision. I hadn't expected to meet Phil Um. It 551 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: was beyond my control. It's like a gag. I mean 552 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 1: he walked in the green room and it was a 553 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: shampoo commercial. I mean, his big blue eyes and that 554 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: shock a white hair, and I thought, oh my god. 555 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: And I was dating like three men at the time. 556 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: Phil said the same thing. He said, I I walked 557 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: down the hall after her, and I thought, my god, 558 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: she's a bad thought. And then we flirted for an 559 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: hour on his show. He asked me out the next night, 560 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: and that was it. But what change meaning? You've said 561 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: in interviews that you had a couple of different types 562 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: of boyfriends who had the hunky boyfriend. You know, you 563 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: had the leading man boyfriend, then you had the smart, 564 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: funny boyfriend to keep you interested. Well, you're very right. 565 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: My comment was that I, you know, the the you know, 566 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: the gorgeous guy, the hunk and everything. That guy was, 567 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: you know, a sexy turn on. And the other guy, 568 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: he was so smart that he taught me things. I 569 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,959 Speaker 1: was very attracted to men like that who kind of 570 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: you know, just taught me about business or taught me 571 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,959 Speaker 1: about life, who were just very smart, which the hunky 572 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: guy didn't really have that. And this was the first 573 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: time I met a man who had it all. Phil 574 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: was hunky and sexy and real smart, and it just 575 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: was it was a great package. And so at first, 576 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: the first thing that brings you together is the hunky, 577 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: sexy part. And then the more I got to know him, 578 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: just so wise and he always does the right thing. 579 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: He always ends up with the right spot. And you know, 580 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: Phil moved his show, his show, his whole show, all 581 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: the producers and everything to New York. I was living 582 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: in l A. He was living in Chicago, and I 583 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: had a big production company, had made twelve movies for 584 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: television in a row. He had his own show, and 585 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: he was raising four boys on his own. He was 586 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: getting his boys through school. Show every day at nine am. 587 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: Our lives were insane, and I said to him, he said, 588 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: he wanted me to move to Chicago. And I said, look, 589 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: at this point in my career, I really can't live 590 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: in Chicago. I could live in New York or l A. 591 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: He said, I can't live in l A. I'm not interested. 592 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: He's had no offense, but I'm not interested in interviewing actors. 593 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: So we picked New York and we moved everything to 594 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: New York, including his show. He said, let me just 595 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: get my boys to high school, which was like another 596 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: two or three years. He got his boys where we 597 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: bought an apartment, We got married, the boys got through 598 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: high school. He moved the show and everything, and we 599 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: made a life in New York, where neither of us lived. 600 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: We bought an apartment, we bought a house in Connecticut. 601 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: We we invented a life. Now. Obviously, another enormous part 602 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: of your family's legacy, your dad's legacy, and your legacy, 603 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: is St. Jude's talk to me about the genesis of 604 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: that and why Memphis. My father grew up very poor, 605 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: an immigrant family. My grandparents were from Lebanon. They had 606 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: no money. They came here with all their belongings in 607 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: cloth bags and arranged marriage. Had ten babies, nine boys, 608 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: and a girl without a doctor hot water and her sister. 609 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: So everybody in the neighborhood. They were everybody. They were Polish, Irish, Jewish, Chinese, Italian, Lebanese, whatever, 610 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: and they never went to a doctor, and they all 611 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: had jobs on consignment. I mean it was real, real 612 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: dirt poor people. And my father had little friends who 613 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: died of things like influenza and appendicitis, which are manageable situations, 614 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: but they died because they never could see a doctor. 615 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: So he had a very firsthand look at the inequity 616 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: of health care in this country, and that always was 617 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: in his mind. And so when he made a promise 618 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: to St. Jude, show me a sign that I can 619 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: make it in my career, because he was my father 620 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: was terrified of being poor and not being able to 621 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: raise his children the way his father was. So he 622 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: was willing to give up show business if he knew 623 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: what got assigned you to something else. Anyway, he got 624 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: a sign and he can tinued on his way. And 625 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: when he got very successful and quite wealthy, he decided 626 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: it was time to pay back and he wanted to 627 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: build a hospital for very ill children where nobody would 628 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: be turned away, not for race or religion, and no 629 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: one would pay for anything, not treatment, travel, housing, or food. 630 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: And he picked the South because and this was a 631 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 1: wonderful story. My father carried this little piece of paper 632 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: in his pocket for many years. He read in the 633 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,720 Speaker 1: paper that a black boy eight years old in Mississippi 634 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: was hit by a car. A white guy hit him 635 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: on his bike. The white guy picked him up and 636 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: tried to get him to a hospital, but no emergency 637 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: room would take him because he was black, and he died. 638 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 1: So my father decided, I'm putting it in the South. 639 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,479 Speaker 1: I want the kids from the South to be able 640 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: to get here too, And so he did. And it 641 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: was the first solely integrated hospital in the South. And 642 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: we have the largest program for sickle cell We have 643 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: eight hundred sickle cell patients and we have a black, white, Hispanic. 644 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: They come from all over the world. We even have 645 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: Amish people, which so stunned me because here these people 646 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 1: won't even have a zipper. But when it comes to 647 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: saving your kid, if your childhood sick, God forbid, you'd 648 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: sell your arm to get your kids. Well, these parents 649 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: come terrified they're gonna have to sell their house, that 650 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: everything else. They don't have to sell anything. They just 651 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: have to come there and we put them up in 652 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: beautiful housing, which, by the way, I do most of 653 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: the decorating. We can put up four hundred families for years, 654 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 1: two years at a time. It's an incredible place. Well, 655 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: let me just say this to you. I want you 656 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: to tell your husband that we'd love to have him 657 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 1: on the show. I didn't want you together because I 658 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: feel like a show with Phil Donahue. That's four segments 659 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: we need to do four hours before. Because I respect 660 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: him and I admire him, and he's got a lot 661 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: to say. We'd love to have him on because I'm 662 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 1: a huge fan of your husband. And what I love 663 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,879 Speaker 1: about your husband was is that his political views, though 664 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 1: they tilted in a certain in the way, they weren't partisan. 665 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,959 Speaker 1: Do you think that you agree with that? Through most 666 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: of his career. Yes, he got hit in the head, 667 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 1: got fired from MSNBC because he opposed the war in Iraq, 668 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,800 Speaker 1: and it was an interesting time for him. Here's a 669 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 1: guy who'd been on the air for twenty nine years 670 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: in syndication. And when I first met him, he said, 671 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: I've got the best job in television. And I said why. 672 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: He said, because I can say anything I want to say. 673 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: And if you don't want to run it in Detroit, 674 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: you don't have to. But I'm I'm in two d 675 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: and fifty cities, so don't run it. So he wasn't 676 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: used to any kind of censorship overview. He just did 677 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: what he wanted. He went on MSNBC and the war 678 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: was ramping up against Iraq, so he put on fathers 679 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: who had lost their sons, both from Israel and Palestine, 680 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: to talk about what war really does. And these are 681 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: men who were opposite each other and in their beliefs, 682 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: but they had both lost sons in these wars. And 683 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: he had on all the people that were against the war, 684 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: the Colin Powells and all the people, and they were 685 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: all all the generals who were against the war. And 686 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 1: NBC told his producer, you've got to get filled to 687 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: get off the war thing. You know, NBC is run 688 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: by General Electric. General Electric makes things that go boom. 689 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 1: So he didn't stop because he felt it was not 690 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: only he wasn't being defiant, he was being a journalist. 691 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,839 Speaker 1: He was saying he was showing the other side of this, 692 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: and all the other shows everywhere actually were for the war. 693 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: I just want to say this to you, and that 694 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 1: is you probably should go back on TV because you'd 695 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: still be the funniest, most sophisticated, gorgeous woman on TV. 696 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: Get that line from Lucy to you and Mary Tyler 697 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,959 Speaker 1: Moore hovering around the same time onto Murphy Brown, those great, 698 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,880 Speaker 1: great leading ladies of network television. God, I would love 699 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: to work with you one day. What a joy. Thank you. 700 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: We'll give me a call, Alec, anytime, we will call you. 701 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: This was fun. Thank you, my very best to you, 702 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,840 Speaker 1: and thank you thanks for having me. My thanks to 703 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: Marlow Thomas. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's 704 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: the Thing from My Heart Radio. We're produced by Kathleen Russo, 705 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: Carrie Donohue and Zach McNeice. Our engineer is Frank Imperial. 706 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.