1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Body dys but Joseph's gotten more. I don't think I'd 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: have to go a long way to find a person 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: that would agree with me that liars can be the 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 1: bane of your existence. You know, in the lives that 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: we lead every day, they mess up plans, they create deceit, 6 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: they create disharmony, and it's a problem. But just think 7 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: about think about you're missing a twenty month old child, 8 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: and I mean everyone under God's good Heaven is out 9 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: there shaking the bushes and looking for all the while 10 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: you might know something different. I think it was once 11 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: Central that actually said a lie. It's halfway around the 12 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: world before the truth has a chance to get his 13 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: pants on. And it's amazing the power of words, but 14 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: how much more so when it comes down to the 15 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: death of a precious little one. Today we're going to 16 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: talk about the death of little Quentin Simon from Savannah, Georgia. 17 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Backs. Here 18 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: we go again, Dave. How many times we're going to 19 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: go around this over and over and over again with 20 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: these pronouncements seemingly where people will We'll go before a 21 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: bank of microphones and sit there and say that you 22 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: know it ain't me, it ain't me, And it turns 23 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: out the authorities think it is you, right, and again 24 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: I got it. Just let me let me lay this 25 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: out here real quick. Not really a disclaimer, it's just 26 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: a reality check. This case is currently going to trial 27 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: at this point Tom as we speak. But I felt 28 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: like it was something that we should chat about the 29 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: death of little Quinton because it's been the news. Now. 30 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: I guess you know this first kicked off back in 31 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. Here we are in twenty twenty four, 32 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: and I don't know that we'll have any more answers, 33 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,399 Speaker 1: but we'll see what the courts have to say about 34 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: to day. 35 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 2: From the nine one one call, where Leilani Simon, the 36 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 2: mother of Quinton Simon, is actually not making the phone 37 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 2: call herself, although she can be heard clearly in the 38 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 2: background of the nine one one call, The call is 39 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 2: made by Daniel Youngkin. Daniel Youngkin is the father of 40 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 2: one of her children. He is not the father of 41 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 2: Quentin Simon, but he makes the call. And the story 42 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: is we woke up, the front door was a jar, 43 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:26,399 Speaker 2: and the baby's gone. Not baby, the one year old 44 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: is gone, is what Leilanie was saying, my one year 45 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 2: old is gone because she has another baby that's younger. 46 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: There are three children in the home. One of them's 47 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 2: gone now. To be crystal clear here, Joe, the beginning 48 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 2: of the search for Quentin Simon was not that dissimilar 49 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 2: from Hailey Cummings. If you remember that story, Hailey Cummings, 50 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: a little girl who went missing in the middle of 51 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 2: the night. The story is I woke up, she was gone, 52 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: the door was open. Having heard this a couple of 53 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 2: times from people, you get really frustrated because the people 54 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 2: who should care the most, the mom and the dad, 55 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 2: the people in charge of these children, lie, They won't 56 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 2: tell the truth. And I'm gonna be honest with you, Joe. 57 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: From the minute somebody tells a lie, don't you disregard 58 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: as a researcher, as somebody looking into the disappearance. Don't 59 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 2: investigators immediately say why are you lying? 60 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: Well, let me pause you. Right there, there was an 61 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: old investigator that I knew many years back. He's long 62 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: since passed on, and he had been a longtime homicide 63 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: detective before he became an investigator with the Medical Examiner's office, 64 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: and we were chatting one night and I'd ask him 65 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: by deception, and you know, because he's literally a detective 66 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: that went back to the fifties, so their worldview from 67 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: back then was completely different. And but he he did 68 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: have a nugget of wisdom though. He said that within 69 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: every lie, there's a there's a grain of truth, and 70 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: it's up to you as the investigator to find that 71 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 1: little stitch in there that you can begin to pull 72 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: on and try to unravel it, unravel it or untwine it, 73 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: I guess, and you know, I don't know, that's probably 74 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: the wrong phraseology, But unwind, I think is what I 75 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: meant to say. Unwind all of that, that that layering 76 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: of mistruths that you know, contain that little kernel truth 77 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: in there, and you know, you begin to think about 78 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: it in the statements and so those things that they're fleeing, 79 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: I think that what he meant is logically, those things 80 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: that a suspect might be fleeing from, you want to 81 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: try to figure out what it is they're fleeing from 82 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: and find out what the true reality is here. And 83 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: one of the things that struck me about this case 84 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: is that I found it very interesting that the first 85 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: place her mind ran to Lelani, the mother was that 86 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: someone had come into the house and taken it. Okay, 87 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: well you mean they had physically come into the house 88 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: and taken your child. If that's the case, why is 89 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: your house unsecured? You know, if you've got these prayer 90 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: I mean obviously, look, dude, I could have hordes of 91 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: gold around me. That is not going to that on balance, 92 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: that is not going to outweigh the value that I 93 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: place in my babies. 94 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 2: You know, interesting how you look at things like a 95 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 2: human being and the people that we deal with a 96 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 2: lot of times, don't. 97 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: They just it's so easy I think for many of 98 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: them to dismiss it, and to dismiss it very quickly. 99 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 1: You know, now the ghost are gonna come call in 100 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: the middle of the night and drive you to madness. 101 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: I think when if you're involved in something like this, 102 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: involved in a child, but just kind of the superficial 103 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: on that surface of it, you sit there and you 104 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: look at it and say, what are you? Why are 105 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: you doing this? Weren't you helping us? You know we 106 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: aren't you truly helping us? Instead of running off to 107 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: Tadby Island, you know, it's just South Tatantah and we've 108 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: been in an elbow with Mama down there at the bar, 109 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: and I think that's that's what really got got these 110 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: people in a twist. The surrounding community, at. 111 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: Least from the beginning the press conference that began with 112 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 2: the police chief, Jeff Hadling. Yeah, all right, he says, 113 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 2: was he something? He says a mother. This is from 114 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 2: the press conference. Let me give you the direct word here. 115 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 2: A mother called nine one one advising that when she 116 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 2: woke up in the morning, her twenty month old baby boy, Quintin. Now, 117 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: he said, Quintin's. I don't know why that is. It 118 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: could have been just wrong name. Anyway, Quentin Simon was 119 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: missing from his pack and play. Quinton was last seen 120 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 2: wearing a Sesame street light blue T shirt and black shorts, 121 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 2: black bottoms. So we got here as quickly as we 122 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 2: can to assess the situation, trying to determine the nature 123 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 2: of why Quinton was missing. Now, you mentioned that they 124 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 2: said the front door was a jar, and that's step one, 125 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 2: because did Quinton get out of bed, open the door 126 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 2: and leave in the middle of the night, or did 127 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 2: somebody come into the house and snatch it. There's three 128 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 2: children to choose from. One is younger than Quentin, the 129 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 2: other is older. And since it's the middle of the night, 130 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: if a stranger danger came into the house, they would 131 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 2: have to know a which child they were looking for. 132 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 2: B where that child is located in a darkened house, 133 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: You're not going to come in and turn the lights on. 134 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 2: And so the story changed. 135 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 1: Joe, Yeah, I could. Wow, You're I'm going to give 136 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: you a detective back pretty soon. I can see it 137 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 1: coming on the horizon. Yeah, because you know, that's that's 138 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: one of the most glaring things because if you're going 139 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: to go in and literally let's just think about this 140 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: from a perspective of thievery. Okay, right, where someone burgles 141 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: a home and they spend a lot of time that 142 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: are really good. I mean these are you know, like 143 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: professional burglars. One of things they're going to do is 144 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: observe the location. They're going to know how many people 145 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: are in there. They're going to try to get an 146 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: approximation of where everybody is and then obviously what is 147 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: of value in that location and can they go into 148 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: this environment where they're not going to be detected. Well, 149 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: if you're a perpetrator, one of the worst things you 150 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: can do is go into unoccupied location. Uh you know, 151 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: you think about because if what what's being put out 152 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: there is that these were just thieves that came into 153 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: the house to steal something. They didn't find anything to 154 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: steal other than Quinton. So you have to be purposed here. 155 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: And you're talking about in the dark day. But I'm 156 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: glad you mentioned that because I don't know about you. 157 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: I can't get up out of my own bed in 158 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: the middle of the night without running into a wall 159 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: or stumping my toe on something that's immediately adjacent. And dude, 160 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: I live here. You know, just think about this, just 161 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: for a moment, being able to navigate through this environment 162 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: door secure or unsecured. You're navigating through this environment in 163 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: the darkness because you don't want to draw attention to yourself. 164 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: And you're going to go in and snatch a child. 165 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: You know, what guaranteed do you have? The child's not 166 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: going to cry out? And how do you know that? 167 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: And if the child's in a pack and play, is 168 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: that pack and play in the same location every single 169 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 1: night or does mama move it around or you know, 170 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: there's so many questions that you have to answer relative 171 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: to this. And also one other thing is if you're 172 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: going to this is something that that I'm kind of 173 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: I have kind of an awareness of my my youngest grandchild. 174 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: You know, they come over and spend the night at 175 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: we call it. My wife is Gammy and I'm Papa. 176 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: They come over and spend the weekend with us. All right, 177 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: We had a pack and play for the longest time 178 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: set up for our youngest and she would be in 179 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: the bedroom with We knew exactly what it was. But 180 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: you know, the thing about packing play is not only 181 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: do you do you is it positioned so that it 182 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: can be moved. It's created that way, and it's light 183 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: and portable and all that. But man, you you have 184 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: to really like stoop over in order to get into 185 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: this thing. And then you have to fumble around. It's 186 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: not like sticking your hands over into a crib where 187 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: anatomically the child that's in there is kind of oriented, 188 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: you know, toe to toe. This thing's perfect click square. 189 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: They can be twisted in any number and there's toys 190 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: in there and blankets and everything else, and you have 191 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: to know where it is. And then you have to 192 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: stoop way over in order to you know, extract any 193 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: child or any object that's in there. So it's the 194 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: dynamic that they're trying to present here that the mama 195 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: is letting on with. I'm not buying it. As an investigator, 196 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: I'm not buying it. 197 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 2: Do they being investigators? Because of the amount of time 198 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 2: you have spent with investigators one on one end the 199 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 2: times that you have in the last twenty years talking 200 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 2: about these things, do investigators immediately talk about things like 201 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 2: this and when they're amongst themselves, like I noticed, X well, 202 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 2: I noticed this is what the claim is. I'm not 203 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 2: believing it. Do you guys talk about that or is 204 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 2: this something you make a note of and come back 205 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 2: to later. 206 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, we would make it. We would make a note 207 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: of it. And I used to be we used to 208 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: informally call it the Dennis Club. I'm not giving a 209 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: plug for Dennis here, but we called it the Denny's 210 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: Club in New Orleans because anytime we would work a case, 211 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: there was an old Denny's restaurant that would allow they'd 212 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: love to have the police there because it was in 213 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: a really rough area and we had a table, a 214 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: huge table in the back where we could still see 215 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: the front door, and we would all gather around that myself, 216 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: the detectives and also even the crime scene tech if 217 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: they if they had the ability, and we would do 218 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: you know, kind of like a skull session afterwards. That's 219 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: when we would because you can come into that space 220 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: and kind of compare notes and you know kind of 221 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: what you're hearing. They would ask me about what I 222 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: was seeing relative to the body or the remains, and 223 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: you sit there and you're not going to make comment 224 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: about it at the scene to another investigator unless it's 225 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: something that is so urgent and so acute that has 226 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: to be taken care of it at that moment time. 227 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: And you develop a language where you kind of bounce 228 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 1: off of one another and you begin to read each other. 229 00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: It's kind of it's a weird thing, but you know, 230 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: listen to everybody in that hears us right now. It's 231 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: not that we're special, because people in just everyday life 232 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: that folks you work with, you develop a language all 233 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: of your own, you know, and investigations is no different. 234 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: But the big trick is if you've got a liar 235 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: among you and they're not set apart and they're within earshot, 236 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: you don't want to reveal what's in your hand, because 237 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: guess what if they've lied once to lie again and 238 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: again and again. Day I got to tell you quick story. 239 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: Many years ago, when I was still an EMMY investigator, 240 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: my daughter came to me and said that she wanted 241 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: to help me with my investigations. And I told her, 242 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: I said, well, baby, it's you know, this is grown 243 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: up stuff. You can't you know, I'm not going to 244 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: expect I'm just saying to see, I'm not going to 245 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: expose my child to this because they get exposed one 246 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: way or another. They hear you, you know, they hear 247 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: conversations and they see that would it take you what 248 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: total it takes on you? But I had just gone 249 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: to a conference, and this is during the days of 250 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: when we were still still trying to perfect our techniques 251 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: in doing death investigation with children, because it is a 252 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: it is a skill set that is unique. Uh, there's 253 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: so much stuff that you have to look for. And 254 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: the conference that I went to talked about using baby 255 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: dolls and these would be represent at scenes where you 256 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: would bring a baby doll to the scene. You'd ask 257 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: the parent the caretaker to demonstrate with the baby doll 258 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: what had happened to the child? Where were they? What 259 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: was their position? And you know, it was a few 260 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: days later, after my daughter had asked that question, I said, hey, 261 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: do you have you still want to help me with investigations? 262 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: And she's like yeah yeah. It was like, do you 263 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: have a baby doll that you don't that you don't 264 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: use or that you would like dad to have that 265 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: I could maybe use in my investigations. Oh yeah, And 266 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: she goes in and collects this baby doll. And I 267 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: had her the baby doll sitting on my desk for 268 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: a long time and called her Clementine. And she sat 269 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: there on my desk. And if I knew that I 270 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: was going out on a child child death, I would 271 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: take the baby doll, place it my scene back. And 272 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: the way you utilize it is you have the mother, 273 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: you say, okay, this is the position the baby was 274 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: found in. Obviously the baby's not here, the baby's been 275 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: removed to the hospital. Or you go back and do 276 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 1: a retrocing. He take, I have a baby doll here. 277 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: Will you take this baby doll and place the baby 278 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: in the in the crib just like you say she 279 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: was or just like he was. And then we just 280 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: snap photographs and you know, the mother be pointing, you know, 281 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: to different locations because it's if you're not there to 282 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: bear witness to what's going on relative to these horrible 283 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: cases involving children, you want to try to get as 284 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: much first hand knowledge as you can. Most of the time, 285 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: the parent is going to be the person that is 286 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: eyes on first, Dave, you know, they're the caretaker. I mean, 287 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: that's what you're expecting. You know, it's expected out of you. 288 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: It's been expected out of me and everybody else that 289 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 1: that that should be proud enough to call themself a parent. 290 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: There's a certain standard you know that you're hell to. 291 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: And so with that said, I'm wondering when the police 292 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 1: got there and they begin to snoop around observe. I 293 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: hate the word snoop, but as just said it already 294 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: it kind of fits, Joe, it does, it does, And 295 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: what we're you know, what could they be looking for 296 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: in that environment? 297 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 2: Now, let me ask you something very quickly about that. 298 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 2: When police come into a situation like this, they're called 299 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 2: into it. The family has called invited them into the home. 300 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 2: I have a missing child and I need your help. 301 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 2: Do police have to be careful of what they're looking for. 302 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: I know this is not illegal, that you're not a lawyer, 303 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 2: but you've been around at your entire adult life. But 304 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 2: do police have to be careful with what they're seeing 305 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 2: and doing inside that home without a search warrant? 306 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: No? No, no, no, because at that point, Tom the 307 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: underpinning for this, and particularly as it applause, and that's 308 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: this is really a this is a name see question. Nobody. 309 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: Nobody tell her I made a comment about this, Okay, 310 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: So I don't want to get. 311 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 2: That's why I said, I'm not asking you just because 312 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 2: you've been. 313 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 1: I'll tell you. I'll tell you from an investigative standpoint. 314 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: If the court is going to look at this as 315 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: an emergent situation like you have. We're trying to find 316 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: a child, all right, So if you go looking in 317 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: what they refer to as hidden places that the court 318 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: considers reasonable, like if you've got a missing child, I'm 319 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: going to look under your back and they did, okay, yeah, 320 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna I might open a closet. I'm going 321 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: to look in the cabinets, the cabinets in the kitchen, 322 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: see if child crawled in there. You know, I'm going 323 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: to look everywhere that might be a hidden where a 324 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: child could fit in. Now am I going to go 325 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: to And this is a case that goes back years 326 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: and years ago, and you guys can look it up 327 00:19:54,400 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: for yourself. But it's called uh uh the Dolly Map case, 328 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: very infamous case where it dealt with looking in hidden places. 329 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: I'm not going to go into somebody's desk drawer and 330 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: flip this thing open and look at it, you know, 331 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 1: and see what kind of files they have in there. 332 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 1: That's not the purpose of what we're doing. We're trying 333 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 1: to find a child. So yeah, yeah, yeah, So to 334 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 1: your point, no, this is this is an emergency situation. 335 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: You have to take a really close look because right 336 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: now the goal is to try to find Quentin and 337 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: try to find him intact alive and to reunite him 338 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: with his family. 339 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 2: Okay, Now, in this case, yeah, the first thing that 340 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 2: is said on the nine one one call is we 341 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 2: woke up, Quintin's not here, Yeah, front door Ajar. Now, 342 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 2: as police begin investigating and they talk to Leilanie, I 343 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 2: want to lay out a couple of things that Leilanie 344 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 2: told them. They knew they being the police because They're 345 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 2: going to immediately pull up who the parent, who the 346 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 2: adults in the building are. They want to know what's 347 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 2: their background, and you know. 348 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're going to run them. They're going to run them. 349 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: They're going to find out who's occupying this. But I'm 350 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: sorry step On you. 351 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 2: I'm glad you pointed it out, because there have been 352 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 2: a lot of things happening in the life of Leilani 353 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 2: Simon and her children in the weeks leading up to 354 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:29,679 Speaker 2: October fifth. 355 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: Now. 356 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 2: In particular, Leilanie Simon lost custody of her children to 357 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 2: her mother, Billy Joe Howell. Billy Joe Howell, Leilanie's mother, 358 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 2: has custody of Leilanie's children and is supposed to be 359 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 2: there with them. She's not. Billy Joe Howell is not 360 00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 2: at the home when the children when when Simon goes missing. 361 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 2: I'm only pointing that out because she comes into play 362 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 2: very quickly here, Billy Joe Howell. But Leilani Simon tells 363 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:14,959 Speaker 2: police fairly quickly. I think Clinton Simon is with his dad, 364 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 2: his biological father. He must have come and got Quinton 365 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 2: because police are asking her. Okay, So, like we talked 366 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 2: about a minute ago, somebody came here in the middle 367 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 2: of the night, in the dark, didn't wake anybody up, 368 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 2: and grabbed Clinton and left, or Quinton got up and 369 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 2: opened the door and left. Quentin Simon, by the way, 370 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 2: according to his grandfather, couldn't open a door. 371 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: It does twenty months ago. It doesn't surprise me. I 372 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: don't know that he could have sufficient well. First off, 373 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: I don't know that he could have sufficiently reached the 374 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: door knob. And secondly, even if he did, did he 375 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: have the arm strength and the hand strength in order 376 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: to rotate the knob after climbing out of the pack 377 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: and play yeah exactly, or to actuate the little switch 378 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,199 Speaker 1: on that. I don't know how the lock is set up. 379 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: But you know, no, I understand what you're saying, and 380 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: you're right, and listen, the granddad would have had firsthand knowledge. 381 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 1: You know, he's looking at this thing. I'm sure you 382 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: can only imagine. I think early on, and this happens 383 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 1: with the cases involving children. We always say, you know, 384 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: we're holding out hope, we hope that they're okay these 385 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: sorts of things. But let's face it, David, the younger 386 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: the child is the higher the probability is that they 387 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: will not have survived on their own, you know, without 388 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 1: you know, without their protector around them. You know, because 389 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: twenty months old child's in diaper. You know, twenty months old, 390 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: the child needs someone to feed them. Twenty months old, 391 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: they need to be bathed and taken care of. Twenty 392 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: months old, they need to be put down to sleep. 393 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,479 Speaker 1: And you know, in my experience with my kids, I 394 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,239 Speaker 1: know that when they would be put down sleep, there 395 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: were certain items they had to have with them that 396 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: brought them comfort, you know, in their little space that 397 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: they lived in. And for investigators, when they begin to 398 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: go back to the home and search through the home, 399 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: I can tell you, Dave, without any hesitation, they're looking. 400 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: They're looking for things that would indicate to them that 401 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: this is something far more than merely a missing missing 402 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: child case. They're going to be early on, I think, 403 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 1: looking for things like blood. They're going to look for 404 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: objects that might have blood on it. And certainly that 405 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: pack and play, they would have gone over that with 406 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: a fine tooth comb, looking around all of the edges 407 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 1: of it, looking at anything that was contained in their blankets, pillows, 408 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: if there was still anything in it that's the big question, 409 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,479 Speaker 1: you know, what was the status of this thing. Many times, 410 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: if you have an individual that gets rid of and 411 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: this applies to adults adults as well, say, for instance, 412 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: somebody's killed in a bed, all right, many times what 413 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: will happen is that the perpetrator will just take all 414 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 1: of the bedclothes, fold them around the body. Body is like, 415 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: you know, it's rolled up essentially and transported out of 416 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,719 Speaker 1: the house in that manner. This happens with children too, 417 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: if they're killed in that spot, they'll wrap them in 418 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: their little blankies. They'll wrap them and you'll even I've 419 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: had one case I know of where we found a 420 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: stuffed animal that was wrapped up in blankets with the child. 421 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: And I always thought about that case in particular because 422 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: I was thinking, was this like some kind of sick 423 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: thing that they wanted to have the stuffed animal with 424 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: the child, or is this just something that happened as 425 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: a result of them, you know, catching everything together and 426 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: rolling it up, and that stuffed animal wound up in there, 427 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:09,959 Speaker 1: and you never know what you're going to find. And 428 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: so with that, from an evidentiary standpoint, everything contained in 429 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: that living space for that child has value and you are, 430 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: in fact, as an investigator, hoping against hope that that 431 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: child has survived. But sometimes you just have to face 432 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 1: reality and learn that you're no longer working a missing 433 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: child case but a homicide. The purpose of a landfill 434 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: is not only to dispose of garbage. It is used 435 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: in order to render it down there. If you ever 436 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: go to a landfill, and many people have not, but 437 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 1: if you ever see one, first off, they're vast, and 438 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: there obviously is always a smell in the air, even 439 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: as hard as they might try to mask it under 440 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: what they refer to as the dome to way these 441 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: things are set up. 442 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 2: Okay, you're going to have to explain that a little 443 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 2: bit because when you said I've talked to you about 444 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 2: this that, yeah, I didn't know about landfills and how 445 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 2: they were broken down and how they actually have a 446 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 2: map that details levels of where different things are, because 447 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 2: until I watched that documentary about the et game that killed. 448 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: One of the oh yeah, the guitarist. Yeah yeah, and 449 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: that's where they found those characters, right, yeah, it really is. 450 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: And you don't really understand. I mean, and there there's 451 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 1: a reason that many people go into you know, and 452 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: study and college and environmental engineering. Well, part of that 453 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: is dealing with the refuse and understanding the biochemical properties 454 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,479 Speaker 1: of that location and certainly the items that are going 455 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 1: to be going in there. And so you have aerobic 456 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: and anaerobic environments. Aerobic with oxygen, anaerobic diminished oxygen, and 457 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: they some people have stated that you can have an 458 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: anaerobic environment where by virtue of the way the thing 459 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: is set up, you deprive the area of oxygen and 460 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: they create this kind of dome that goes over it. 461 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 1: It doesn't give off as foul smell, but everything is 462 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: kind of breaking down, and they both have upsides and 463 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: downsize to them. But the one thing that we have 464 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: to keep in mind is anything, any organic material that 465 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: goes into a landfill is automatically going to begin to decompose. 466 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: And we've even talked about this before when we did 467 00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: our series on postwartive changes with human bodies. We start 468 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: our bodies start to break down at death. Okay, mostly 469 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: it's at a cellular level. You're not necessarily going to 470 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: be able to appreciate it, but there are all these 471 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: changes that are taking place. So if an organic item 472 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: is placed within a landfill, because everything else around that 473 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: item is in fact decomposing. It promotes it, it promotes 474 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: kind of the rapid onset of decomposition things break down. Understand, 475 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: these things are so massive that they have to have 476 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: that kind of environment in order to continue to put 477 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: things in there. And it's all stratified. So just a 478 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: quick thumbnail refresher. If you have a landfill, it's literally 479 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: broken up into they'll call it grids, zones areas, and 480 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: they're enumerated and they know precisely, first off, which zone 481 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: is active at that point in time. They have it 482 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: dated and cataloged. Okay, because there are certain stipulations even 483 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: put forth by the EPA as to how they have 484 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: to manage these things. Well, once that area is filled 485 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: for that period of time, they go on to the 486 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: next zone. Here's the big key here, though, Dave. Going 487 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: back to the Azalea Motorhome Park. They're going to know 488 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: where that little truck drove out to and picked up 489 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: that dumpster and then dumped it into the back and Dave, 490 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: anything that was in that dumpster at that location. This 491 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: should chill everybody down to their core. It was compacted 492 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: on site. All of us have seen this happen. We've 493 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: all witnessed garbage trucks coming by, you know, these big behemoth, 494 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: these big machines, they grab garbage, that put it in, 495 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: and once they get to a certain level with garbage, 496 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: there's a big iron metal door, you know, thing that 497 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: comes down with a hydraulic arm on it and it 498 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: compresses everything in there. So it's literally compressing it down 499 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: so that they can go out and pick up more garbage. 500 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: So during this period of time, during that run of 501 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: that little truck going through the Azia Mobile Home Park, 502 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: there would have been layering going on even in that truck, 503 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: but they would have known which zone the truck would 504 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: have gone to on that particular day and dump. So 505 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: if they're suspecting, if they're suspecting that Quintin's remains or 506 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: in that area, they at least have an indicator as 507 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: to where they can begin to look. 508 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 2: Now, let me ask you, Joe, because when investigators arrive 509 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 2: on scene missing or dead child and you look around 510 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 2: the area of the home where the child I'm going 511 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 2: to assume was last where the parents say the child 512 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 2: last was in this case of packing play or what 513 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 2: have you. 514 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: But our law. 515 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 2: Enforcement when they're looking at this. Are they looking for 516 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 2: items that might be found with this child, whether they're lost, kidnapped, murdered. 517 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 2: As you mentioned how oftentimes a body will be picked 518 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 2: up with all the things around it, blankets, whatever that 519 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 2: they just pick up this mass and throw it away 520 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 2: or dispose of it. Are they making note of what 521 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 2: they're seeing in that environment to know what's going on 522 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 2: between the parents and the children or child and then 523 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 2: later on looking are they paying attention to looking for 524 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 2: that doll, for that blanket, for that toy. 525 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, they are they if they have been able to. Well, 526 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: you know, we have to keep in mind, you know, 527 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: everybody that's out there, there's high probability not everybody, but 528 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: a goodly percentage of people that are on that on 529 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: that search team have their own kids. They know what 530 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: their own kids have that are intimate objects that are real. 531 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: They're not gonna know anything about Quinton. And now, since 532 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: you're surrounded by a group of people that aren't exactly 533 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: being truthful, how much can you trust that base information 534 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: that's coming in. I tell you, one of the key 535 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: people here, I think would probably be like a babysitter 536 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: that would have knowledge because if they're circling the wagons. 537 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: You know, are they even going to tell you, well, 538 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: this was Quentin's favorite toy, this is the color of 539 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: his blanket, you know, this is something you know, I'm 540 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: they gave the descript of the description on the pajamas, 541 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: you know, that kind of really stuck in my mind. 542 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: They start talking about these Sesame street pajamas because our kids, 543 00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: you know, I look back in time and I think 544 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: cookie mots, you know, you think about those things, big bird, 545 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:08,399 Speaker 1: you know, you know, and yeah, and you think about that. 546 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: So they if they have that description, which most of 547 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: the time they will. You know, when you go out 548 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: on a missing person's case, one of the first questions is, 549 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: well they're missing, what were they lasting wearing? And with children, 550 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: you don't have id you know, so basically all you 551 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:33,879 Speaker 1: have are are those those descriptions. And if if I'm 552 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: asking as an investigator where was he sleeping, I go 553 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:44,399 Speaker 1: to to the crib, the pack and play and there's 554 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: nothing in it. I'm going to say, do you sleep 555 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: without a blanket? You know, And automatically I'm thinking, I'm thinking, Okay, well, 556 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: wherever he is, that damn blanket's with him more than likely. 557 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: But I'm not saying that's the case with Quinn, but 558 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 1: that's the type of thing that you're looking for, and 559 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: you have to be able to be sensitive to that. 560 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 1: And that's hard to do in these environments because they're 561 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: so emotionally charged. You've got somebody that's screaming in the background, 562 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 1: they're going on, find my baby, Find my baby, and 563 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 1: you're trying to assess the situation and you think, well, 564 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: did this child sleep, you know, on a bear mattress 565 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,839 Speaker 1: in this thing, or did they have a blanket If 566 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: it was a blanket, did they use more than one blanket? 567 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 1: That sort of thing. And so when you go out 568 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,839 Speaker 1: to a landfill, which is like I've often equated it 569 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 1: to taking the biggest jigsaw puzzle in the world that 570 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 1: you can think of with the tiniest pieces and essentially 571 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: just kind of tossing it up into the air and 572 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,280 Speaker 1: let the pieces fall with it. Because everything looks the same. 573 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 1: You get out there and you really have to fine 574 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: tune your senses and you have to have a plan. 575 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: This is not something This area, Dave is so vast 576 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: that when you assemble a search team, because right now 577 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: this is still a search, it's an evidentiary search. You're 578 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: not searching for because you don't expect to find a 579 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: live child, you know, in a landfill. You're out there 580 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: searching this area. And they were clued into this somehow, Dave, 581 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: I don't know how at this point, but they they're 582 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: making the assumption this child is dead. 583 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 2: They actually are searching the landfill because of what Leilanie 584 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 2: Simon told them Joe from the eighth day of the investigation, 585 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 2: when the Chief of police says, we are not searching 586 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,919 Speaker 2: for a live child. We believe Quinton Simon is dead 587 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 2: and we believe his mother is the suspect. Although the new 588 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 2: charges are filed, when you look back on it now, 589 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,320 Speaker 2: when they were building the timeline they know they start 590 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,399 Speaker 2: with the morning of October the fifth, when the nine 591 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 2: one one call is made, where they say Quinton Simon 592 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 2: is gone, right, Well, what happened the night before? Where 593 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 2: were you the night of October the fourth, Leilanie Simon 594 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 2: tells police the night before, on October the fourth, she 595 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 2: met her drug dealer to pay off a debt, but 596 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 2: then she volunteers well, she also left again early the 597 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 2: next morning to meet a friend to get a pain pill. 598 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 2: Leilanie Simon later tells police that she went to a 599 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 2: dumpster the morning of October fifth at the Azalea Mobile 600 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 2: Home Plaza. She claims she just dumped normal household garbage there. 601 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 2: On October thirty first, a slight change, Leilanie Simon tells 602 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 2: investigators that it was her boyfriend, not her. It was 603 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 2: her boyfriend that left in the early morning hours of 604 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 2: October the fifth. Then October twenty first, three weeks after that, 605 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 2: Leilanie Simon admits she had gone to the mobile home 606 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 2: park that morning, not to meet a friend to get 607 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 2: pain medication. Actually, she doesn't know why she was there. 608 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:40,240 Speaker 2: So police zeroed in on the Azalea Mobile Home Plaza 609 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 2: at dumpster as the location because she kept pointing that way. 610 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 2: And as you mentioned earlier, even in a lie, there 611 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 2: will be a shred of truth. It was that dumpster 612 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 2: that led the investigation to the landfill, and it was 613 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 2: the investigation that discovered the body of Quinton Simon or 614 00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 2: his remains at the landfill. 615 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: The fact that they did find human remains, and they 616 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: were children's remains out there. First off, it's a miracle, 617 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: all right. I'll go ahead and tell you right now, 618 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: and that's I think that I don't know, maybe I'm 619 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: reading too much into it, but maybe that's why there 620 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: was a celebratory mood, because you I think that most 621 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: people's perception is if you can get something to the landfill, 622 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: nobody's going to have a chance of finding it. And 623 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: they you mentioned it, and I forgot I said this 624 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: about looking for a needle in the stack of needles. 625 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: That's what you're doing here because everything's are not everything, 626 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: but the majority of stuff out there is decomposing in 627 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,720 Speaker 1: this manner. And the fact that they found these remains, 628 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: they were able to take the remains to Quantico, to 629 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: the FBI lab have them assessed. I'm pretty sure they 630 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,879 Speaker 1: probably had one of the top forensic anthropologists that they 631 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: have access to on this, maybe a couple of them, 632 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: you know, what do we have and they were able 633 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 1: to narrow down an identification. I think they actually wound 634 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: up even identification through DNA and it turned out to 635 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 1: be quinin that they had and the And since this 636 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: case is going to trial, one of the things that 637 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: is going to be really key here goes back to 638 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: a comment that was made in regards to this case, 639 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:26,839 Speaker 1: and that is that Quentin died or was killed with 640 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: an object. It's very non specific, you know when you 641 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,799 Speaker 1: hear these initial press releases and we don't know what 642 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: their findings are yet. So when you stay killed with 643 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: an object, that could mean the first thing you think 644 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 1: of killed with an object is probably blunt force trauma. 645 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 1: But the problem arises is, well, you're saying an object, 646 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: do you know what the object is? Was it hammer? 647 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: Was a baseball bat? Was it a toaster? I have 648 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: no idea. And the fact that what you're dealing with 649 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 1: our skeletal remains. There's not going to be any kind 650 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:12,800 Speaker 1: of hemorrhagic pattern necessarily, or a braided pattern on the skin. 651 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 1: I would imagine a goodly portion a soft tissue is 652 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,399 Speaker 1: gone because I keep using the term skeletal in this. 653 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: So is there some kind of pattern that you can 654 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: find on the bone? I will tell you at the 655 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:32,399 Speaker 1: age that Quentin was when he passed twenty months old, 656 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 1: the bones are still very soft and malleable. They're not, 657 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:41,359 Speaker 1: you know, kind of not really ossified like ours are. 658 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,240 Speaker 1: You know, the older you get, you know, they've become firmer. 659 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: So were they able to pick up on some kind 660 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 1: of pattern? And my suspicion is it would have to 661 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,279 Speaker 1: have something to do with the skull, and you would 662 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 1: still be able to I'll tell you how young he is, Dave. 663 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:03,399 Speaker 1: You would still be able to appreciate, certainly the more 664 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,479 Speaker 1: anterior fontenail, the soft spot, and maybe even the post 665 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 1: here fon noil that's back there by the ox put. 666 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 1: That's how soft it would not have completely closed up. 667 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 1: Even to that point. You might say, you know, if 668 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 1: you touch your child's head, you say, yeah, yeah, the 669 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: soft spot's gone. But at that age of twenty months, 670 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 1: it's it's still appreciable, particularly for people like a forensic 671 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: anthropologist that know what they're looking for. 672 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 2: But Joe, you mentioned about how constantly crushing, constantly pushing down, 673 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,840 Speaker 2: constantly making compacting it right, and yet now we have 674 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,840 Speaker 2: skeletal remains. What can be determined from exactly. 675 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 1: Well, here's the other thing. Here's the other problem they 676 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 1: can run into here, Dave, is the determination between anti 677 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 1: mortem trauma and post war and trauma. Think about everything 678 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:56,680 Speaker 1: this precious angel's body has been through. I mean, here 679 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 1: it is. I'll give you the laundry list real quick. 680 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,760 Speaker 1: This is a blunt force case. You've got that initial trauma. Okay, 681 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:11,640 Speaker 1: then you've got the trauma of packaging his body and 682 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: putting him into a vehicle. Now we don't know what 683 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:15,920 Speaker 1: was done with the body in that period of time. 684 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 1: It seems rather mild, perhaps, But then you drive to 685 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: the dumpster. Was he merely thrown into the dumpster or 686 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 1: was he gently placed? Well, my suspicion is, if you'll 687 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: put your child into a rubbish bend, there's a high 688 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:41,120 Speaker 1: probability you're not exactly going to display the most respect 689 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,920 Speaker 1: for the human remains. Then you have the body inside 690 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 1: the dumpster. Was anything else thrown on top of it? Okay, 691 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,359 Speaker 1: this is all in the post and Bortum state. Did 692 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,879 Speaker 1: somebody come by and throw their household trash in there? 693 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,720 Speaker 1: Did they throw I've gone to dumpsters where I found 694 00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 1: whole sets of furniture, you know, sticking out of there. 695 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,400 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what else was in there. 696 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 1: And then on top of that, you've now got the 697 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: truck that's going to come by and pick up this 698 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,960 Speaker 1: angel's remains and they're going to be placed into the 699 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,160 Speaker 1: back of this thing. Well, that's trauma too, because you 700 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:21,319 Speaker 1: got the contents that dumpster rolling out and bouncing off 701 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,359 Speaker 1: of those metal surfaces and then landing in the back 702 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:29,000 Speaker 1: of thing, and then the body is compacted. Okay, And 703 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,399 Speaker 1: we don't know how many other stops occur that day 704 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,719 Speaker 1: for the truck, so you've got maybe multiple times that 705 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,840 Speaker 1: it's being compacted. You see see how complex this gets. 706 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,480 Speaker 1: And then you go out to the landfill. Oh well, 707 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 1: we're not finished yet. Now the contents are going to 708 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 1: be dumped out there, and we don't know if they 709 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:55,120 Speaker 1: were initially dumped in one location and then multiple bucket 710 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 1: loaders came by and picked up that trash and deposited. 711 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,200 Speaker 1: Maybe the truck didn't go directly out. I suspect that 712 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:04,319 Speaker 1: went to a central gathering area, scooped up, taken out there, 713 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: and deposited, and then it's going to be probably they'll 714 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 1: probably pad it down with the bucket truck, okay. And 715 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:17,560 Speaker 1: then now you've got the machinery running back and forth 716 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,640 Speaker 1: and back and forth. This is so complex relative to 717 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:26,040 Speaker 1: how you determine anti mortem and post mortem trauma here, 718 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: and I think that this is a big area for 719 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,960 Speaker 1: probably the defense to feast in, if you will. They're 720 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,440 Speaker 1: going to talk about this, how exactly do you know 721 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: that this didn't occur after the fact, you know. And 722 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,840 Speaker 1: how do you know that he didn't just fall? You said, object, 723 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 1: how do you know that he didn't just fall and 724 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: strike his head and mom panicked. I can almost guarantee 725 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,720 Speaker 1: you that's what's going to come up in this trial. 726 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:56,839 Speaker 1: So I'm left. I'm left thinking here, all I can 727 00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:01,439 Speaker 1: envision right now is those two in that a tabbee island. Wow, 728 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,000 Speaker 1: this is going on, and just do that with that backdrop, 729 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,600 Speaker 1: just thinking, if you will, the sound of ice going 730 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:13,160 Speaker 1: into a class, the sound of perhaps something being poured, 731 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: people laughing, music playing in the background, and all the 732 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:23,680 Speaker 1: while there's the hum of machinery as it slowly goes 733 00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 1: back and forth over a little Quintin's body. I'm Joseph 734 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,320 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is body backs