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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. After four students slaughtered in

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Speaker 1: their beds in Idaho on the edge of campus, police

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Speaker 1: are releasing body cam footage, body cam footage that occurred

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Speaker 1: the night of the murders. Why now this as we

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Speaker 1: learn the elected coroner assigned to the quadruple murder, who

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Speaker 1: was also a Twins lawyer, also represents a killer. I'm

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and serious xmleven. First

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Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to this. For the first time,

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Speaker 1: detectives in Idaho are releasing body camera footage hoping it

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Speaker 1: can provide new leads in the case of those four

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Speaker 1: murdered college students. Seven. The videos show officers on patrol

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Speaker 1: in Moscow, Idaho, in the early morning hours of November thirteenth,

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Speaker 1: around the time investigators believe Zanner carnotal Ethan Chapin, Madison Mogan,

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Speaker 1: and Kaylee Gonzalvas were killed in a home near the

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Speaker 1: University of Idaho, taking out twenty one yeah. In one video,

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Speaker 1: officers are seen issuing citations to three teams for underage

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Speaker 1: drinking an apartment complex across the street from the victim's

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Speaker 1: home is visible just steps away from the officers. Investigators

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Speaker 1: say the people in the videos have been cleared and

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Speaker 1: the incidents have nothing to do with the murders. As

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Speaker 1: you were just hearing from our friends at ABC, bodycam

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Speaker 1: footage has been released. Detectives in Idaho releasing bodycam footage

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Speaker 1: hoping it can provide new leads with me and All

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Speaker 1: Star panel. But first to Dave Matt Crime online dot

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Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter Dave Mac, I'm just curious about the

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Speaker 1: timing of the release of the bodycam footage, but more portant.

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Speaker 1: The footage shows Moscow police on patrol in the early

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Speaker 1: morning hours of November thirteen, around the time of the murders,

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Speaker 1: and in one of the videos, we see officers giving

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Speaker 1: citations to three teams for underage drinking an apartment complex

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Speaker 1: across the street from the victim's home. It's visible. Now.

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Speaker 1: Tell me the significance of that, Dave Mac. It actually

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Speaker 1: sets the entire scene for what was taking place at

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Speaker 1: the moment we believe the murders took place. It shows

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Speaker 1: the police, as you mentioned, they're right near the apartment

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Speaker 1: complex that is near the house. You can see the

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Speaker 1: whole area. You can see the cars, you can see

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Speaker 1: anything that was going on. So again setting the table

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Speaker 1: for what was taking place in the moment we believe

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Speaker 1: the murders took place. Guys, over the past forty eight hours,

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Speaker 1: I have watched one particular video over and over and over.

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Speaker 1: I'd stop it, I'd try to reverse it. I'd watch

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Speaker 1: each segment over and over. And I've got to tell

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Speaker 1: you where I found it. I found it at a podcast,

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Speaker 1: but there is video to go with it. It's called

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Speaker 1: the Interview Room. And i gotta tell you something. Watching

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Speaker 1: the podcast and you'll see why, not just listening to it,

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Speaker 1: but watching it, and you can you can get it

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Speaker 1: on your iPad, your iPhone, the Interview Room. I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you why it was so significant to me. The words

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Speaker 1: I was hearing as I watched it helped me a

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Speaker 1: lot too. But what I saw was, well, Cheryl McCollum,

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Speaker 1: this is why I never tried a case without going

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Speaker 1: to the crime scene first. Okay, Cheryl McCollum with me

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Speaker 1: right now. Is guy named Chris mcdonnaugh now. He was

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Speaker 1: a director at a cold case foundation, former homicide detective.

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Speaker 1: That's Cold Case Foundation dot org. As I said, former

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Speaker 1: homicide worked over three hundred homicides over twenty five years,

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Speaker 1: and he is host of this podcast called The Interview Room.

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Speaker 1: And what I saw is this he and I think

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Speaker 1: it's your wife, Chris mcdonnaugh, but a lady that you

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Speaker 1: keep calling honey. Apparently the two of you were in

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Speaker 1: a car, but somebody was in a car and it

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Speaker 1: slowly ease through town. It looked a lot like where

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Speaker 1: I grew up, Chris mcdonna, not even in a city

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Speaker 1: outside a little city making Georgia was a little at

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Speaker 1: the time. There's snow everywhere in this video, and you're

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Speaker 1: riding along and you see everything and the guy and

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Speaker 1: I think that's you. McDonough is talking over it, and

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Speaker 1: he is telling you everything you're seeing. As you drive

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Speaker 1: through Moscow, Idaho. You get to a gas station, he's

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Speaker 1: telling you this is this, that's that. And at that

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Speaker 1: gas station, I think that there's going to be video

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Speaker 1: security cam. You turn the left and start climbing up

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Speaker 1: a hill and then you realize exactly what mcdonnah says.

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Speaker 1: You gotta know where you're going to get to eleven

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Speaker 1: twenty two King the Murder House. You go weave all

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Speaker 1: up in there, and you see houses all around it,

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Speaker 1: very similar to the murder house. You see the apartment complex. Guys,

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Speaker 1: I could throw a baseball from the apartment complex to

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Speaker 1: the murder house. Mcdonnah takes you up this little ridge

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Speaker 1: and guess where you end up. You're right there behind

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Speaker 1: the murder house where many of us believe the killer

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Speaker 1: had been looking down. I mean, it's right there. It's amazing.

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Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnah, welcome. Now you just heard Dave Matt Chris

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Speaker 1: mcdonnah describing the relevance of this bodycam footage. Explain to us,

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Speaker 1: where is that footage in relation to even twenty two

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Speaker 1: king the murder house. So that path, there's a path, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: directly to the front door of that residence from where

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Speaker 1: that footage was being filmed that evening from the body camera.

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Speaker 1: You mean in the woods behind the house. There's a

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Speaker 1: path going up to the door. No, if we take

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Speaker 1: the body camera footage that evening from the police officers

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Speaker 1: on the alcohol contact you, if you cross that street,

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Speaker 1: it goes directly to the front door of that house.

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Speaker 1: Oh wait a minute, Wait a minute, Chris mcdonna, wows

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Speaker 1: if your drive along wasn't enough. Did you hear that, Dave,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, did you hear that? Where this body cam

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Speaker 1: footage is? You cross the street and you're at the

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Speaker 1: crime scene with me? Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert, founder of

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Speaker 1: Cold Case Research Institute, Chris Sheryl and I fought in

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Speaker 1: the trenches together when I was a prosecutor. She's a

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Speaker 1: forensic expert. You can find her a coldcase Crimes do

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Speaker 1: or Cheryl White. Is this so important that everybody look

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Speaker 1: at this drive along? Well? I think you cannot overstate

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Speaker 1: the importance to visit the crime scene. You and I

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Speaker 1: have talked about that before. Where this house is, where

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Speaker 1: this path is, where these woods are. You're talking about

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Speaker 1: a watch area of the perpetrator. And these young people

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Speaker 1: might have been stalked for an hour and a half,

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Speaker 1: they might have been stalked for two weeks. But if

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Speaker 1: you remember, days and weeks after the murders, law enforcement

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Speaker 1: returned to that area and you can see them even

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Speaker 1: squatting down and walking through that wooded area. If they're

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Speaker 1: not collect anything, they're literally looking at this watch here.

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Speaker 1: You just see where this perpetrator might have come and

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Speaker 1: hung out for quite some time. Doctor Bethany Marshall with

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Speaker 1: me psychoanalyst joining us out of Beverly Hills at doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall dot com. She's a star in Bling Empire

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Speaker 1: and more. Doctor Bethany, I want you to hear what

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Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnaugh and Cheryl mccollumer's saying, how just on top

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Speaker 1: of the quadruple murder and we're going to go to

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Speaker 1: doctor preabannergy on that just a second. She is as

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Speaker 1: systant medical examiner and forensic pathologist. On top of that,

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Speaker 1: you've got the possibility that someone was sitting back on

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Speaker 1: that area right, it's almost a butts into the back

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Speaker 1: of the murder house, watching them. And I've tried to

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Speaker 1: show this picture a million times, doctor Bethany. It's a

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Speaker 1: picture taken from inside the Sigma Kai House and you

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Speaker 1: can see Ethan sitting there. But that's not the point.

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Speaker 1: The points you look out the window, look right at

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Speaker 1: the murder house, Nancy there on top of it. Somebody

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Speaker 1: sitting there watching them all this time. I know, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: And just like you were watching the video, I was

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Speaker 1: looking at the photos of these beautiful young people. They

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Speaker 1: are so attractive young at the prime of their life.

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Speaker 1: And there are quite a few photos of all four

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Speaker 1: of the victims together, So you amalgamate that information with

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Speaker 1: somebody who had clear visual access to this home, and

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Speaker 1: in my mind, it begins to tell me a little

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Speaker 1: bit about the motive of the perpetrator, not just to

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Speaker 1: attack one individual and then the others are in their way,

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Speaker 1: but somebody who is attracted to a group, a group

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Speaker 1: of people who love each other, who are getting along.

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Speaker 1: I haven't heard anybody else comment on this, but think

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Speaker 1: about it. I don't know if I buy into that,

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Speaker 1: and I'll tell you why. Okay, start that to Chris mcdonna,

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Speaker 1: everybody from a homicide detective, it's hard for me to

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Speaker 1: imagine a killer wanting to murder a whole group. Now

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Speaker 1: you've done so many homicides, and everybody, remember this is

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Speaker 1: crime stories. This ain't high Tea at windsor Castle. Jump

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Speaker 1: in for Pete's sake. But Chris, unless it's a family situation,

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Speaker 1: especially as we have a lot at Christmas where everybody

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Speaker 1: gets crazy and goes in with a flamethrower and just

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Speaker 1: blows all ways up, unless you're going for a whole family,

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Speaker 1: I find that really hard to believe that you are

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Speaker 1: targeting for people. Yeah, one hundred percent agree on Nancy,

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Speaker 1: because I mean that's why this is such the magnitude

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Speaker 1: that it is. One interesting point though to your discussion

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Speaker 1: a minute ago, was you know, this is one way in,

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Speaker 1: one way out. But what I thought was interesting one

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Speaker 1: way in, one way out. Yes, hold the thought, Chris,

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Speaker 1: because I want to circle back with anybody on the

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Speaker 1: panel about why cell phone tower data may be important

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Speaker 1: and why this white Olantra is so important that they're

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Speaker 1: looking for. Because who the hey, Jackie is going to

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Speaker 1: be driving out of a one way in, one way out.

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Speaker 1: I described it as almost it called USAT at three

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Speaker 1: or four o'clock in the morning. Who is that person

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Speaker 1: that's high tail and it's getting out? And in your video, Chris,

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Speaker 1: it really hit me the thick snow like he Chris

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Speaker 1: was trying to walk down in some leaves to give

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Speaker 1: you a good vantage point. He's slip, going to slip,

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Speaker 1: so he's kind of like creeping along in the video.

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Speaker 1: So I want to circle back on that, jack So

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Speaker 1: don't let me forget go ahead, Chris, y know. And

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Speaker 1: so what's interesting is the night of the alcohol contact

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Speaker 1: right that evening. That officer was in a plain clothes,

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Speaker 1: you know situation, So you have to ask yourself, what

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Speaker 1: did he see prior to the homicides. If he's spotted

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Speaker 1: the juveniles drinking alcohol, he obviously was set up in

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Speaker 1: a surveillance situation. So if a vehicle or somebody was walking,

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Speaker 1: did that officer have you know, visual contact with that

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Speaker 1: potential suspect even you know, approaching the home. So it

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Speaker 1: actually strengthened the back of the house as a potential

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Speaker 1: place where this individual would hang out. Crime Stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I don't think I noticed in your video,

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Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna. You saw the overlapping crime scene tape and

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Speaker 1: it looked like Cheryl McCollum. As Chris points out in

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Speaker 1: his video on the Interview Room podcast, I found it

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Speaker 1: on I think I found it on YouTube. Cheryl. Number one,

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Speaker 1: you cannot minimize the importance of going to a crime scene.

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Speaker 1: You can't try a case unless you've seen the scene.

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Speaker 1: I've had defense with it and says tell me what

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Speaker 1: they saw that night. And then because I had been

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Speaker 1: to the sin, I could say, well, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: isn't there a huge six foot tall thick hedge between

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Speaker 1: where you are and where the Jope deal went down,

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Speaker 1: and then they're like, uh what, huh okay, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: why you have to see it. Now, what are you

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Speaker 1: making of what Chris mcdonnad just told us? Well, I

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Speaker 1: think the most important thing that he's pointed out is

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Speaker 1: the one way in, one way out. Most killers do

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Speaker 1: not box themselves in. So if they're just driving around

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Speaker 1: randomly looking for somebody to harm, they're not going to

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Speaker 1: put themselves in a situation where they are trapped. They're

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Speaker 1: not going to do it. They're going to make sure

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Speaker 1: that they've got an escape route forward, backwards, and sideways.

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Speaker 1: This person did not do that here, and to me,

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Speaker 1: that is critical. Joining me IRV. Brandt, Senior Inspector US

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Speaker 1: Marshall Service. Also DJ I'm author of solo shot Curse

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Speaker 1: of the Blue Stone. It's on Amazon come February, also

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Speaker 1: Flying Solo. Wow or Brandt, how do you have time

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Speaker 1: to do everything that you do all your books? Question

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Speaker 1: to you, if this guy was undercover, he probably would

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Speaker 1: not have had a body cam, a shoulder a shoulder CaMLA. No,

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Speaker 1: that's correct. I mean until he's coming into contact with

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Speaker 1: the people that he wants to interview is when he

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Speaker 1: would turn on the body camera. So the events leading

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Speaker 1: up to him making contact probably wouldn't have been recorded

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Speaker 1: because he'd had no reason to turn that boy cam on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and Robert Crispins joining me PI former Federal Task Force

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Speaker 1: d EA in Miami. Never lack a business there specialty

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Speaker 1: homicide crimes on children. You can find him at Crispin

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Speaker 1: Investigations dot com. Thank god, at some point he did

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Speaker 1: turn on the bodycam. It should give us a view

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Speaker 1: or somewhat of a view of what was happening around

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Speaker 1: the murder thing. Hey, Nan, can I change in for

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Speaker 1: a second? Okay, jump in bath? So sorry, I just

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Speaker 1: disagree with the group about a couple of things, and

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Speaker 1: I am not boarded handycam. I hold it, I'll hold it.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, Crispin, finish the thought on bodycam. So the

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Speaker 1: issue with the bodycams is it's HD quality video, and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that they've gone back and they've probably pulled

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Speaker 1: a lot more than just his bodycam, because in the background,

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Speaker 1: as you saw in the ones that they've released, you

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Speaker 1: see some other cars parked there, you see some other

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Speaker 1: things that are going around. So it's kind of giving

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Speaker 1: us more of a sketch of the crime scene area.

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Speaker 1: And with the technology today, and you spoke about those

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Speaker 1: cell phone towers, which we can talk about later. You

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Speaker 1: know in the timing that this happened, and I'll explain

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Speaker 1: it when you're ready. That is going to be the

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Speaker 1: technology that's going to assist law enforcement in making an

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Speaker 1: app for pension in this case. Now Jackie has held

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Speaker 1: up a sign and it said the roads look more

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Speaker 1: like alleys than roads. I think that may be because

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Speaker 1: they're covered in snow and by the time people have

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Speaker 1: driven over then they look like muddy tracks in snow.

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Speaker 1: What about a Chris mcdonna, think about the snow factor

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Speaker 1: here and oh, everybody in your mind think about where

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Speaker 1: are they getting the chip on the white Hyundai A

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Speaker 1: Launchra and how could it get through that snow? Chris mcdonna,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't really tell. Were you driving up a road

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Speaker 1: once you get up where the house is, are those

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Speaker 1: are those actual roads? Are they paths? What are they?

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Speaker 1: They're covered in snow? Yeah. So when you turn up

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Speaker 1: that street, the main street on King Street, if you

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Speaker 1: fall it straight up, Nancy, it goes up and around

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Speaker 1: that apartment complex and it brings you behind the target house. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a big parking lot behind going up that. If

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Speaker 1: you're in that parking lot, can you look down at

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Speaker 1: the murder house? Yes? One. And that's why it was

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Speaker 1: still interesting to be back there, because just even getting

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Speaker 1: up into that area, a I have a truck and

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Speaker 1: I had to put it into four wheel drive to

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Speaker 1: to get up that hill because of the ice. You know,

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Speaker 1: to your point, Jack, you look up if a hun Alantra,

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Speaker 1: let's just go with twenty thirteen has four whole drive

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Speaker 1: because I don't think it does. But that said, all right,

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Speaker 1: so there's your answer to the roads. Yeah, it's not

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Speaker 1: only is this body camp footage just been released? What

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Speaker 1: can it tell us? We have to review the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: But in the middle of all this, another bomb is dropped.

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Speaker 1: We now have a neighbor stating they heard a woman's

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Speaker 1: scream but thought nothing of it. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: our friends at Inside Edition. And now a neighbor who

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Speaker 1: lives near the house says he heard a woman screaming

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Speaker 1: the night of the murders. Thirty year old Enon Harsh,

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Speaker 1: a chef, says he thinks he heard the scream out

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Speaker 1: around four am, but he quickly dismissed it as noise

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Speaker 1: coming from a party. I didn't think anything of it.

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Speaker 1: After what happened, I've definitely had second thoughts. Maybe it

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Speaker 1: was not a party sound for am, he says, around

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Speaker 1: for am. And you know, Cheryl McCollum, anything can start

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Speaker 1: a timeline. It could be a broken watch on a

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Speaker 1: murder victim's hand that crack and you see what time

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Speaker 1: that happened. It could be the dog in the Nicole

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Speaker 1: Brown Ron Goldman double murder at the hands of O. J. Simpson,

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Speaker 1: where the dog Akita lets out this as the neighbor

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Speaker 1: says mournful. Well, and here we've got a four am

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Speaker 1: about for am scream Cheryl, Well, Nancy, you and I

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Speaker 1: have done a whole lot together on cases, and I

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Speaker 1: am a firm believer in knocking on doors. This man

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Speaker 1: should have been found day one, day two. They should

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Speaker 1: canvas again. They should go door to door. Here, door

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Speaker 1: to door is going to answer things video can't quite frankly,

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Speaker 1: just like the earwitness video even going to give you that.

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Speaker 1: So to me, who has moved away, who didn't come

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Speaker 1: back from Thanksgiving break, who appears nervous, who drives a

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Speaker 1: similar car. They got to get boots on the ground

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Speaker 1: and go door to door crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the most recent updates in the last

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Speaker 1: seventy two hours in the investigation into the murtyrs of

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Speaker 1: four beautiful young University Idaho students. Chris mcdonnah, you have

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Speaker 1: been all over the scene. What do you make of

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Speaker 1: what this new ear witness is saying. I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out where he lives in relation to the house.

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Speaker 1: He's a chef, he says, he here's a scream at

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Speaker 1: four a m. Well, you have to ask yourself first

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Speaker 1: of all, you know to the last point is you know,

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Speaker 1: good old fashioned police work, you know, ringing doorbells was

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Speaker 1: you know needed and it still is one hundred percent agree.

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Speaker 1: But you know, if this in fact is the case,

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Speaker 1: then you can do some forensic analysis in relationship to audio.

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Speaker 1: You can bring in some folks, you know, to measure

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Speaker 1: off sound how far it travels at four am and

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Speaker 1: see if that's even a possibility. But that needs to

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Speaker 1: be that box needs to be checked now that this

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Speaker 1: witness has come forward, just to verify the validity of

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Speaker 1: that potential, and so the fact that the individual, in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, wasn't discovered immediately, you know, then you have

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Speaker 1: to ask yourself, well, what's going on in that individual

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Speaker 1: why they didn't come forward earlier, and so then you

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Speaker 1: have to go down. Can I make a comment about that, Yeah, Joe,

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Speaker 1: I heard somebody. I heard somebody screaming in my neighborhood

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Speaker 1: a couple months ago. It was about three or four

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Speaker 1: in the morning, and I heard it. My husband didn't,

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Speaker 1: and we talked about it for about three days. Did

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Speaker 1: you hear something? Did you not? Should we have called

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Speaker 1: the police? It ended up being our next door neighbor

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Speaker 1: had a schizophrenic niece he had taken in who ended

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Speaker 1: up attacking him in the middle of the night. But

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Speaker 1: we debated for a few days, and my husband's a judge,

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Speaker 1: and we should have just called nine one one right away.

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Speaker 1: So does it matter how educated you are, how smart

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Speaker 1: you are. Witnesses doubt themselves. This is why child abuse

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Speaker 1: is so vastly underreported. So I would wonder who in

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Speaker 1: this neighborhood also knows something that they don't want to

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Speaker 1: get somebody in trouble who may not be you know,

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Speaker 1: a primary accessory to the crime. You know what's interesting,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, I agree with you. I was calling nine

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Speaker 1: one one. I don't even think it through because I

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Speaker 1: know how critical it could turn out to be. What's

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Speaker 1: interesting about this scream the chef neighbor. Here's it's closer

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Speaker 1: to four am. Now if we start the timeline there,

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Speaker 1: let's just go out on the legend. We start the

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Speaker 1: timeline there. That could include or remove the validity of

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Speaker 1: the white Hyundai Elantra, which, by the way, Jackie's saying,

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Speaker 1: does not have a four wheel drop. So could it

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Speaker 1: get up the heels that Chris mcdone is showing us

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Speaker 1: in his video in the interview room. Could it What

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Speaker 1: if it was part in that parking lot behind the house.

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Speaker 1: Could it have gone down the heels if it was

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Speaker 1: already there? That's just something hand Nancy John. One other

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Speaker 1: quick thing is when does the sun come up? When

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Speaker 1: does the sun come up there? Because that's part of

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Speaker 1: your timeline too. It's whoever was watching this. That's really good, hey,

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Speaker 1: Jackie or Sydney. Just look up you can do in

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Speaker 1: Farmers out Almanac, what time was the sunrise on that day?

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Speaker 1: In Moscow. I'm gonna get that, Doctor Bethany. I always

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Speaker 1: look up the weather at the time of an incident.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Pria Banerjee joining me, for instance, pathologists. You can

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Speaker 1: find her an anchor at Forensic Pathology, Doctor Banerjee. We

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Speaker 1: believe that the four murders by NiFe occurred between three

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Speaker 1: and four a m. They police didn't get there until

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Speaker 1: noon for a lot of different reasons. Question to you,

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Speaker 1: I know it's a science, I know it's an art

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Speaker 1: determining t OD time of death. But regarding blood, what

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Speaker 1: condition would the blood have been? Okay, if the bodies,

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Speaker 1: if they've been killed at say four a m. At twelve,

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Speaker 1: would it have all been coagulated? Wouldn't it have all

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Speaker 1: been dried? And then we got to think about how

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Speaker 1: do you collect dried versus coagulated versus fresh blood? But

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Speaker 1: how can you look at a dead body dead by

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Speaker 1: knife stabbing and tell me TD Yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 1: think I have so many thoughts on this case, you know,

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Speaker 1: regarding even crime scene stuff. I'll come back to it.

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Speaker 1: But to answer this question, it is an approximation. But

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Speaker 1: I think if you work backwards, like when we I

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Speaker 1: always used to go to a crime scene. So I'm

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Speaker 1: with you, Nancy. I like to see the body at

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Speaker 1: the scene, sort of understand the environment in which the

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Speaker 1: crime and you know occurred, because that also plays into

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Speaker 1: did the person fight back or here we have multiple

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Speaker 1: you know, individuals that they fight back, what might who

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Speaker 1: might have come first or second, third, fourth? But you know,

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Speaker 1: blood is a you know, it's a fluid, but then

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Speaker 1: it'll collagulate and dry. It really depends on if it's

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Speaker 1: near an air vent and the heat, on how much

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Speaker 1: blood is pooled. I mean, so that it's hard for

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Speaker 1: me to say, but as time goes on, obviously you're

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Speaker 1: going to have sort of crust forming dried blood and

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Speaker 1: so all of that's important. But not just whether it's collagulated,

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Speaker 1: but the pattern, right, if someone's dripping blood from person,

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Speaker 1: the person, the knife is dirty, slippery, the blood spatter pattern,

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Speaker 1: and I mean there's you know, other experts on this

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Speaker 1: call that are you know, detectives that really deal with

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Speaker 1: um that you know, all of that's so critical, And

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Speaker 1: that's why I like to go because you really get

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Speaker 1: a feel for the movement of people within the Based

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Speaker 1: on what doctor Pria Banerji is saying, forensic pathologist. I

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Speaker 1: think that they can absolutely tell which two victims were

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Speaker 1: killed first, because their blood is going to be on

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Speaker 1: the other floor as victim three and four. Guys. In

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Speaker 1: the middle of all of this, we've got the elected coroner.

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Speaker 1: She's not a medical examiner, she's not an MD. It's

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Speaker 1: a huge problem, guys. She is now This female coroner said,

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Speaker 1: I looked it up like ten times her degree. The

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Speaker 1: coroner is in I want to say political science or

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Speaker 1: art history or psychology, not fat doctor Bethany. But you've

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Speaker 1: got to hear this. I'm gonna break out of our order,

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Speaker 1: Jackie go to cut one fifty two our friends at

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Speaker 1: crime Online. The coroner who ruled four University of Idaho

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Speaker 1: students were stabbed to death is also a defense attorney

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Speaker 1: who is now representing a convicted killer who was just

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Speaker 1: arrested a mile away from the murder house for stalking

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Speaker 1: his wife around the house with a knife. The Leyta

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Speaker 1: County Coroner Kathew Maybet and her office Maybet Law are

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Speaker 1: representing thirty nine year old ex convict James Curtis Leonard

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Speaker 1: of Moscow, Idaho. He allegedly assaulted his wife and her

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Speaker 1: daughter and slashed himself with a knife. Leonard was arrested

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Speaker 1: last week, just a mile from the scene where four

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Speaker 1: University of Idaho students were stabbed to death on November thirteenth. Okay,

426
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 1: Dave mack let me try to understand what I just

427
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: heard from you. Major, major issue. The coroner, who was

428
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: not a medical doctor, who was not the medical examiner. Ah,

429
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: thank you, Jackie. She majored in political science, and she

430
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: is the one that went out on TV, which my boss,

431
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: mister Slaton always said, don't speak to the press, don't

432
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: don't do it. If your jury here's it, they'll be

433
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: thrown off. The jury, the petit jury. She's representing a

434
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: convicted killer. Okay, who did the guy kill Dave mack? Well,

435
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: he actually um pled guilty to manslaughter charge in two

436
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: thousand and seven. It was he I think he was

437
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: saying it was self defending. He got into a fight

438
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 1: and killed a guy. But right, you know, he was

439
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: sentenced to like fifteen years or whatever, but he ended

440
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: up getting a suspended sentence. He spent a couple months

441
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: in jail, that was it, and got out um and

442
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: then but but again, he is still a convicted killer,

443
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: and he assaulted his wife and daughter and has slashed

444
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: himself with a knife. He chased them around. He actually,

445
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: you know, the little the girl is fifteen years old.

446
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: He slammed her so hard while he's chasing his wife

447
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: that she showed signs of the concussion. Was hiding under

448
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: a table when police got there. And he's arrested last

449
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: week one mile from the same where the four university

450
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: I know students were stabbed dead. Okay, doctor Priya Banerjee,

451
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: why do we have a coroner who's not a medical

452
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: loose hammer spout off on TV about the murders. She's

453
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: a political science major, she got her law degree. She's

454
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: representing a convicted killer at the same time she's talking

455
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: about a murder case. I know, conflicts of interest, So

456
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: coroner is that it's an elected official, so she got

457
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: her way into the position. It's a paid political position,

458
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: and now she's out there trying to represent herself in

459
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: the media. I don't think it's I think it's malpracticed

460
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: to talk I mean ethical, the ethics are just crazy.

461
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: But even to talk about an ongoing murder investigation and

462
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: release all these details when there's no potential suspects, really

463
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: nailed down. I think it's it's ridiculous, Like, I don't

464
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: know how the bar hasn't come down on her for that. Yeah,

465
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: I don't wish the bar getting up anybody's tailpipe. But

466
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: in this case, there's a big problem. And if anybody

467
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: is ever ever brought to trial, we're going to have

468
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: more problems on that. We got another problem, guys, as

469
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: if you didn't already know that in the investigation, no

470
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: fault of the police. Okay, so just get off there.

471
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: Tell for a moment. It's about the food truck guy,

472
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: as many people say, the hoodie guy. If you could

473
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: just refresh everyone's recollection. Cheryl McCollum joining me from the

474
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: Cold Case Research Institute. Who's the hoodie guy. He's a

475
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: guy in the background when you see Kaylee and Maddie,

476
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: they're ordering food, they're talking to some friends. He's in

477
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,959
Speaker 1: the background. He's not talking anybody, he's not ordering food.

478
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: He puts his hood up, he puts the baseball cap on.

479
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: He's kind of trying to shield his face when they leave.

480
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: He and so he's just very suspicious. And I believe

481
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: Kaylee's sister is the one that found the video. In

482
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: the first place, so it didn't look right to her either.

483
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnah joining me, director at the Cold Case Foundation.

484
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: I found him in his podcast The Interview Room. Chris mcdonnah,

485
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: where were the food trucks as they relate to eleven

486
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: twenty two King the murder sing They were downtown at

487
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: three thirteen North Maine, So it's about, you know, just

488
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: under three miles from the residents where Kaylee, Medicine, Zenna

489
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: and Ethan were. Okay, now, according to police and anybody, Crispin, Brant, McCollum, Marshall, mcdonnaugh,

490
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: Matt jump in, if you have anything that could help

491
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: us on this guy. We have been told and I

492
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: don't know that I believe this, that the food truck guy,

493
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: the hoodie guy has left the country. Okay, I don't

494
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: even coincidences. But take a listen to our cut one

495
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: forty eight our friend Les Trent. You're looking at enhanced

496
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: video of the confrontation between two of the University of

497
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: Idaho murder victims and another student at a food truck.

498
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: The time one thirty am, just hours before the murders,

499
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: Kaylee Gonsalves and Madison Mogan stopped for Mac and cheese

500
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: after partying out a nearby bar. Everybody seemed like in

501
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: good spirits, nothing seemed off, and then they start interacting

502
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: with a couple of other people. They're waiting for their food. Now,

503
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: look at this video shows Madison pointing out a man

504
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: in a hoodie who appeared to have followed them to

505
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: the truck. We had the video and audio from the

506
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: clip enhanced, and you can hear her using an expletive.

507
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: Blank you mister, she says. Okay, So you hear her

508
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: saying fu. Why is this significant? Take a listen to

509
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: our cut one forty nine. Our friends at Inside Edition.

510
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: Police have already announced they have cleared the young man

511
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: in the hoodie. Audio engineer Anthony Nelson enhanced the audio

512
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: for Inside Edition. What do you hear in that instant? So?

513
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: Was there an argument? If so, what was it about.

514
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: Kayley's parents say in their opinion, some of the individuals

515
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: have been cleared too prematurely. Now, according to some reports,

516
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: the so called hoodie guy was kicked out of fraternity

517
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: and has left the country. We don't know if that's

518
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: true or not, but as you all know, evidence a

519
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: flight leaving the scene of a crime can be you know,

520
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: evaluated by a jury. But yet police do they not

521
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: Dave Max say they cleared this guy, and you hear

522
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 1: the parents stating some individuals have been cleared too prematurely.

523
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: What do we know about this guy? We know they

524
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: cleared him really early. I mean this was something that

525
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: as soon as that video came out, they were like

526
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: within twenty four hours saying they'd already talked to everybody

527
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: there in the video and that you know, the hoodie

528
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: guy that had drawn everyone's attention was clear. That's what

529
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: we know about it. All the other information that we

530
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: could possibly gain about that the hoodie guy is just

531
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: that it is just a rumor of hoodie guy. We

532
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: don't really know who he is, what fraternity, who was

533
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 1: supposed to be a part of Whether you've been kicked

534
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,760
Speaker 1: out or left the country. I would not equite getting

535
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 1: kicked out of a fraternity with wrongdoing. You can get

536
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: kicked outifraternity for not paying your d's. Okay, so that

537
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 1: is irrelevent to me. Him leaving town quickly, I will

538
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 1: say jump in. Well, we'll say, if this is a

539
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: serial killer that killed these four young university students, they're

540
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,479
Speaker 1: not the brightest bulbs, and when we talk about them

541
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: as if they are like, oh, one way in, one

542
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: way out, you know, surveiling the property. But awesome. Serial

543
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: killers have something called scofftaphilia, that is a perversion with looking, looking, hunting,

544
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:07,479
Speaker 1: like hunting, pecking gathering. They they really fixate on one

545
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: people or a group of people, and they begin to

546
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: fuel their sexual and their statistic fantasies through looking. So

547
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: I would think that somebody who is that perverse and

548
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,879
Speaker 1: is that preoccupied with killing is not going to rise

549
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: to the level of being in a fraternity. They're really not.

550
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: They're going to be in a very low wage menial job.

551
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 1: And that's really where I began looking as the police. Well,

552
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: I hear you're raising dot Jo Basili. But let's not

553
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: forget ted. Bundy was very likable, that's true. A law student.

554
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: I mean, you've got the outliers like BTK, bund torture kill.

555
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: It was a dog catcher. But he also I think,

556
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: wasn't he a deacon at his church, had a wife

557
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: and children. I don't know. I think they assimilate Chris mcdonna.

558
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 1: What if anything do we know about the food truck guy?

559
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think we know a whole bunch

560
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: of about it, Nancy, And I think the PD early on,

561
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 1: you know, when the rumors started around swirling around him,

562
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: I'm assuming they contact came right away, and I think,

563
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: you know, proper protocol would have been grab a swab

564
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: pretty quickly and then you know, through rapid DNA. They

565
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: may have eliminated him through that process, and that's why

566
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: they came out so quickly and said, hey, this guy's

567
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: out of the circle. And that's about all I know

568
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: about him. The interesting thing, going back to the crime

569
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: scene for a moment, is in the back of the house,

570
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: there is a like a cinder block. There are a

571
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: couple out front, but there's one back by a back

572
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: window where you know, if you think about the house

573
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: where it's five women, you know, college students who are

574
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: staying there, and there's this block that's underneath the window,

575
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: next to the window that has to screen off of it.

576
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: And when I was standing back there, immediately what came

577
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: to my mind, you know, through past experience, was is this,

578
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: do we have a voyor here somewhere and has this

579
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: been that fantasy been building? And then you know, he he,

580
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: you know, executed the these you know, targets as a

581
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: result of what he's been you know, thinking about for

582
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,439
Speaker 1: so long. You know, I E, you know, BTK Dennis Rader.

583
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: Is that in play here? And that was one of

584
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: the thoughts that I think should be you know, considered

585
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: as we look closely at that crime scene from the

586
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: exterior inn not from the interior. Hour Chris mcdonnald, you

587
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: said a cinder block was below one of the windows

588
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: that you saw without a screen. Was a cinder block

589
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 1: in a position that someone could have stepped on it

590
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: and gone in the window? Yeah, or they well, not

591
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: necessarily use it as a tool to get into the window,

592
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: but necessarily you know, as a seat, you know, or

593
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: to stant use it to look around the blinds and

594
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: that type of stuff. Was it in a position they

595
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: could have used it to boost in or was it

596
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: further away? No, it's up against the building and you

597
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: can see it in the video, and wow, that was

598
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: it was just it didn't look right. Let me let

599
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: me put it to you that way, okay, Because I

600
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: had a cinder block right outside my dorm room so

601
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,240
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have to walk all the way through the lobby.

602
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 1: Because it was a long walk to get out of

603
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: my dorm. I just go out in the window on

604
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 1: the cinder block. Don't tell anybody at Valdosta State. But

605
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: that said, I think I heard who was that jumping

606
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: It was that U Cheryl or doctor Bethany. I was

607
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: jumping in about the idea about this perpetrator being a voyeur.

608
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 1: That's what I was trying to say about scopophilia and

609
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: why I mentioned earlier that these were four beautiful young

610
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: people who had so many pictures of themselves. I mean,

611
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: these were young people who were relating to each other,

612
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: engaging with each other, going out and partying and then

613
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: meeting late at night and having food together. And and

614
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 1: I think there mansen something not just about the individual victims,

615
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: but the intentter relatedness between all of them that was

616
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,240
Speaker 1: understand I'd like to jump in about something that I

617
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: often practice as a medical examiner, which is when I

618
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: go to the scene. You know, we're all human, right,

619
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,439
Speaker 1: so we have to notice what doesn't fit. I eat

620
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: the cinder block, like why is it there? You know?

621
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: I think that's these are like big questions that I have,

622
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: and my understanding is the back of the house that party.

623
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna drive you crazy, But I'm gonna mention the

624
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: dog again. That dog was put in the bedroom that

625
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,240
Speaker 1: was no longer being used. Who would know that unless

626
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: it was somebody that had already cased that house and

627
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: understood that to be true when that dog was possibly

628
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: led into that vacant bedroom by the killer and the

629
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 1: door shut. Most people, if you're gonna lead a dog

630
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: like that, you do it by their collar. That is

631
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: the reason. When you take that dog and let somebody

632
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: come pick it up, you no longer have that collar,

633
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: which you could have gotten some DNA off of. Possibly. Yeah,

634
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: that's not driving me, chrisy. I love every single thing

635
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: that you've just said, But guys, I want to clear

636
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: something up about the hoodie guy in the last days.

637
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: Moscow police state that they don't deny the guys left

638
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: the country. They say, quote, they are aware of the rumors,

639
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: they did not deny or confirm them. And they also

640
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: say the person in question continues cooperating. That's all we know.

641
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: And remember their duty is not to us on the outside.

642
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 1: Their duty is to solve this case. Chris mcdonna joining

643
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 1: me from the interview room. Chris, is there anything else

644
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: that's stuck out in your mind other than the cinder block. Well,

645
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: you know, nanswy One. I was walking around, you know,

646
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: out on the public street and I was, you know,

647
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: just kind of taking it all in. I looked down

648
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: by the trash cans out front and there was a

649
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:05,439
Speaker 1: black glove and it was partially covered by snow. Immediately,

650
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: you know, the red flags went up in my mind.

651
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, you know, there's a glove here, and

652
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,399
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know who it belonged to, how

653
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: it got there, how long it had been there, but

654
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: it just another anomaly that just didn't look right. So

655
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 1: I got hold of the officer who was sitting there

656
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: at the scene, and you know, asked him to come over,

657
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: and I pointed it out to him and he went

658
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: and in his reaction was wow. And I said, yeah,

659
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: you know, I'm retired homicide guy. You probably want to

660
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: know collect that. And he took some pictures of it

661
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 1: and said, I'm going to tell our CSI folks, Well,

662
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 1: come to find out there is pictures of that glove.

663
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 1: Within the first couple of days, you can see it

664
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: behind the trash cans in the front. And this was

665
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks later that you know, I saw it,

666
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking to my shelf, Okay, well, how did

667
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: this thing get here? Is the you know, it's the suspect,

668
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 1: exist even belonged to the suspect, doesn't belonged to a neighbor,

669
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 1: doesn't belong to one of the victims. I mean, we

670
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: don't know, but I thought it was an anomaly that

671
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,919
Speaker 1: you know, just again did not look right. Man, You're

672
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: giving me a bad feeling. Chris mcdonne, as if I

673
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: didn't already have one with four dead bodies. Guys. The

674
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: tipline two zero eight eight eight three seven one eight

675
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: zero repeat two zero eight eight eight three seven one

676
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 1: eight zero. Also, the Feds have set up a video

677
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 1: tip line, so to speak, where you can upload any

678
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: video or photos, your ring, doorbell, your cell phone, you're

679
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 1: anything that may help them, which was pretty brilliant at

680
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: FBI dot govs slash Moscow, Idaho, FBI dot com slash

681
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 1: Let's go Idaho, We pray for justice. Nancy Grace Crimes

682
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: story signing off goodbye for