1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I Hood podcast, 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: and I'm Philip Logger Crancer, Senior editor for Crypto at 3 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News. In Today for Stacy Marie Ishmael. It is Monday, 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: February the twenty seventh. In a major twist to the 5 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: digital assets world, Bitcoin has added non fungible tokens or 6 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: NFTs to its blockchain. The new protocol that makes them 7 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: is called Ordinals, and just like anything in crypto these days, 8 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: fierce debate has ensued about this on social media. Bitcoin 9 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: NFT proponents called the move a game changer. Naysayers, however, 10 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: worry about potential pitfalls and bitcoin NFTs like rising transaction 11 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: costs an environmental concert. Joining me today to discuss the 12 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: ins and outs of bitcoin NFTs are Bloomberg reporters Emily 13 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: Cool and David Pan. Emily and David, Welcome to the show. 14 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about NFTs on bitcoin. And they've been 15 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: around for a while, the NFTs, but they really it 16 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: was really kind of mid twenty one something like that 17 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: that they started to really rise into the public consciousness, 18 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: wasn't it? That is correct? So the first NFT went 19 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:40,559 Speaker 1: back as early as twenty fourteen, but I didn't really 20 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: start gaining any momentum until later in twenty twenty one. 21 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: I think that was one of the best moments for 22 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: NFTs and a lot of artists that got involved in it, 23 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: and there are new marketplaces like open Sea super super rare, 24 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: and a lot of investors started paying attention to it 25 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: at the time. And Emily, what would you say, So far, 26 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: are the most famous or infamous if you want to 27 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: use that word instir NFTs? Up to this point, there 28 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: have been quite a few collections out there. I mean, 29 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: probably the biggest ones are either crypto punks they came 30 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: a little bit before, and then board apes, the ones 31 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: that really hit the scene in twenty twenty one. Those 32 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: are probably the two biggest out there, the ones that 33 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: seemed to attract it own million dollar sales. But obviously 34 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 1: in the last year or so, along with the rest 35 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 1: of the crypto market, prices souring. NFTs were no stranger 36 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: to that, and if anything, actually they were probably hit 37 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: a little bit worse. But because of that kind of 38 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: collectible nature of them, they're not seen as vital to 39 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: the ecosystem as cryptos like bitcoin, U and ether. When 40 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: we go back to looking at the rising popularity of 41 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: NFTs in twenty one and early last year. It wasn't 42 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: without any impact that you know, when these things started 43 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: getting minted and traded on mass, there was some impact 44 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: on the Etherium blockchain, which is where most of these 45 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 1: things are minted and live. As it were, wasn't their enemy. Yeah, 46 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: So as collections got more popular, more people would be 47 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: coming onto the space wanting to buy more. And the 48 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: way NFT collections work is typically there's a bunch that 49 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: get dropped at once into the market, either either known 50 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: as something through an air drop or minting, and so 51 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: when these big name collections would do fresh mints, there 52 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: would be a whole bunch of people clamoring to get 53 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: into the space, eager to get their token, their NFT 54 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: into their wallet and then mint the corresponding token that 55 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: would prove that it was THEIRS on the Ethereum blockchain, 56 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: and that rush of demand would push up the transaction 57 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: fees on Ethereum because so many people were trying to 58 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: do everything at once, it would slow down transactions for 59 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: everybody else because there was too many people on the network, 60 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: and that led to very very big spikes way, if 61 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: a piece of digital land in the suburb of twenty 62 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: twenty two would cost I don't know, three thousand dollars, 63 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: you're probably paying more than that in just the transaction 64 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: fees to mint the token for your NFT And all 65 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: this was happening on Ethereum, and it wasn't happening on 66 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: the biggest blockchain. It wasn't happening on Bitcoin. Why was 67 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: Bitcoin left out about this? So? I think it all 68 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: goes back to the ethos of these too large as 69 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: the blockchains. For Bitcoin is mainly designed as a cryptocurrency 70 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: way of pay, is designed initially as the pure to 71 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: pure payment network. For ethereum, you know, it came into 72 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: being later than Bitcoin. One of the main points for 73 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: Ethereum is that, you know, it is way more scalable 74 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: at a certain expense of security. You know, you'll be 75 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: able to scale up the projects and you know, decentralized 76 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: the applications on ethereum, so that you know what, the 77 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: training of anovitis and the minting and the naughts are 78 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: much easier to achieve on Ethereum than Bitcoin, just because 79 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: Bitcoin is not as scalable as the etherorem and so 80 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: it remained up until fairly recently when this protocol called 81 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: Ordinals decided to launched on bitcoin, and basically there was 82 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: this decision that NFTs could also live on bitcoin. What 83 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: was behind that, David? The idea of having a sort 84 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: of like an FT like project on bitcoin actually isn't new. 85 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: There were previous projects like colored coins, and some of 86 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: these ant like projects happened a long time ago. They 87 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: just didn't get any momentum. Part of the reason is 88 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: just because of all its technical upgrades didn't take place 89 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: at a time. Nowadays, when we talk about Ordernos protocols, 90 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: they are mostly enabled by two major upgrades are tap 91 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: root and Seguid. The creator of the protocol Ordinals protocol, Casey, 92 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: he started thinking about the protocol in January twenty twenty two, 93 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: which is roughly like a year ago, and then he 94 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: officially launched the project on the Midnight, which is the 95 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: real blockchain, a real Bitcoin blockchain, in January twenty twenty three. 96 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: So that's basically the history of the protocol and why 97 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: it didn't actually happen, you know earlier than this. One 98 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: word I see in stories about NFTs on bitcoin is 99 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: the word inscriptions. Is there a difference conveyed by the 100 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: word inscriptions and how how does that work? David? So, 101 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: so for ordinals it is shorthand for ordinal numbers, which 102 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: expressed the position of an object in a nutshell. The 103 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:53,119 Speaker 1: protocol allows users to stand and receive the setosis, which 104 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: are you know, the smallest measuring unit of bitcoin recorded 105 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: on the blockchain. You know, they can carry option extra data, 106 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: non financial data like digital representation in ordinal progression. This 107 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: is like what I get, you know, from the interview 108 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: with the creator. And so that's you know, essentially how 109 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: it works for the protocol. And Emily, was there a 110 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: reason why, like why wasn't in theorium enough? There issues 111 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: beyond obviously we talked about the gas fees, but Ei, 112 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: there are other considerations behind why somebody would want to 113 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: launch nft SA. Bitcoin. Ethereum in itself does present several 114 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: inefficiencies in terms of entities. So yes, we spoke about 115 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: the gas piece already, but also it's a very popular network. 116 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: Most derivative tokens in crypto tend to run on ethereum. 117 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: So if you think about most stable coins, for example, 118 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: are typically running on ethereum. They're all called arc twenty tokens, 119 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: and that makes it very, very busy. And not only that, 120 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: Ethereum is also undergoing its own little life change. It's 121 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: recently switched from being a proof of work network to 122 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: proof of stage, which means that tokens are now mind 123 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: differently on Ethereum, and as it continues to go through 124 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: these upgrades, it's got several more to come in the 125 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: next few years. That probably means that creators need to 126 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: start thinking about where else they can do things like 127 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: kind ftse if there's a future for it. And bitcoin 128 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: is the world's most valuable token still at the minute, 129 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure there are always reasons for that 130 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: network to be improved upon. And the hype that was 131 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: generated around a Thereum in the last few years has 132 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 1: definitely made some Bitcoin maxis very envious, so definitely, And 133 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: this kind of segues into an area that David, you 134 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: are really specialized in and you know everything about, and 135 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: that's mining. Mining of bitcoins is something that you've covered extensively. 136 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: How does this all this kinnot if you want to 137 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: call it a transition towards using bitcoin for NFTs, how 138 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: would that affect miners and the mining industry? So minors. 139 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: The income for bitcoin miners, it essentially comes in two parts. 140 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: The first part is the fixed amount of bitcoin rewards 141 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: currently it is about six and a half bitcoins from 142 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: a mining a block on the blockchain. And the second 143 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: part is the transaction fees. So if you want to 144 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: do a transaction, for example, treating bitcoin, and now you 145 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: have minting the bitcoin NFTs and they have to pay 146 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: a certain amount of fees, you know as the compensation 147 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: for the miners to maintain the blockchain and also validate 148 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: the transactions in the blocks. If there's more training volume 149 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: for the new kind of NFTs, that means there will 150 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: be increased in transaction fees for miners, which could be 151 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: very significant. Because you know, there's this event that happens 152 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: every four years within the bitcoin blockchain, which is called happening. 153 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: The blockchain is pre programmed to cut the first part 154 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: of the block rewards, which is the fixed amount of 155 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: a bitcoin you can get as an in half. So 156 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: like every four years, the protocol is automatically cutting the reward, 157 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: the first part of the reward in half. So that 158 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: means bitcoin miners they will receive much less rewards over 159 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: the time, so they need other revenue streams to replace 160 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: that to make up to that. So that's when the 161 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: bitcoin NFTs come in. So it could be a very 162 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: sustainable way for miners to get a compensation, especially after 163 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,719 Speaker 1: the next halvening, which is scheduled in twenty twenty four. 164 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: There's one caveat, which is, like the inscriptions that Bacon NFTs, 165 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: it is still in the early stage. If you look 166 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: at the data it is treating volume for the you know, 167 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: for the number of NFTs bitcoin NFTs, it's in the 168 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 1: range of tens of thousand dollars, whereas the same number 169 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: for ethereum is about one point three million NFTs minted 170 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: in just last month, in just January twenty twenty three. 171 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: But is it fair to say that the miners are 172 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: sort of cautiously happy with this development? I also from 173 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: an economic perspective, yes, But like we have to understand that, 174 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: you know, some of the miners they are bitcoin maxis themselves, 175 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: and so even if it's beneficial, it's financially beneficial for them. 176 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 1: Some of them they're just really really hotcore bitcoiners and 177 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: they just don't like the idea that, you know, introducing 178 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: anything other than financial transactions onto the bitcoin network coming 179 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: up right after the break more with Bloomberg reporters Emily 180 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: Nicole and David Pan on Bitcoin NFTs will be right back. 181 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: Bitcoin maxis are ambivalent to unhappy. I guess you could 182 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: call it what's being the reaction from the unhappy camp 183 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: and why you've already sort of alluded to it, but 184 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: please expand a little bit. So when the protocol came 185 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: out about a month ago, and then there are especially 186 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: like at the beginning of the project that there was 187 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: so much backclash from the hardcore bitcoiners. And one of 188 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: the examples is, you know, Adam Back from Blockstrain, which 189 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:29,599 Speaker 1: is the crypto infrastructure company. He publicly commented on the 190 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: project on Twitter saying something like this is like not necessary, 191 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: this is just the waste of resources. You already got 192 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: an ftsn etherian while are introducing that to the bitcoin blockchain, 193 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: and and then you know, put something put like monkey 194 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:51,599 Speaker 1: jpacks or images onto the blockchain permanently, and then you 195 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: know kind of like getting the chain beloated. That's generally 196 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: the reaction. But over time I feel like people there 197 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: are more people from that camp started getting more inclusive 198 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: and getting more accepting to the idea because it is 199 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: boosting utility for the Bitcoin blockchain. You know, other than 200 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: just processing Bitcoin transactions, the blockchain now can be used 201 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: to mint and treat an ft s from artists and 202 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: digital artifacts on the blockchain. So you are seeing increased 203 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: use cases on the blockchain. So that's generally the progression 204 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:35,599 Speaker 1: of this thinking process for the community. And Emily, I 205 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: kind of have to also include you here because you 206 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: are our sort of resident expert at covering crypto controversies 207 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: and the war of the blockchains as it were. What 208 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: do you make of all this and where do you 209 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: see this traveling? I think it's a very interesting debate 210 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,839 Speaker 1: because it's not just about bitcoin, right, it's about the 211 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 1: future of crypto. A lot of crypto is supposed to 212 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: be the payments network of the future. That's always the 213 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: argument that bitcoin is the solution for global remistances. It's 214 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: the way that we're all going to transact one day, 215 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: even if even beyond Bitcoin you've got stable coins ether 216 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: that you know, the whole bunch and what the Bitcoin 217 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: Maximus community is tapping on here is that very argument 218 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: whether or not Bitcoin should be open to allowing other 219 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: forms of tokens to be minted on its network and 220 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: potentially reduce the ability for it to be used as 221 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: a payment's network or to kind of state stick with 222 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: what it knows and keep with that vision. Not that 223 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: it's been super successful at it so far, And that's 224 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: where I think this becomes really interesting, because if they're 225 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: going to be able to get past this, it's going 226 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: to take a lot of banding together. I think the 227 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: crypto community itself is still very split. You know, it's 228 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: not going to commit to regulators any better that bitcoin 229 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: is a safe place for consumers to be using as 230 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: a means of payment if even its creators and people 231 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: running the network aren't able to agree on exactly how 232 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: it should be run. And at that note, I think 233 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: we can call it a rap. Guys, thank you so much. 234 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: That was great, Thank you, thanks for having us. That 235 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: was Bloomberg reporters Emily Nicole and David Pan. You can 236 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: find more of their reporting on the Bloomberg terminal and 237 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg dot com. For more, be sure to check 238 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: out our twice weekly newsletter, Bloomberg Crypto. This is Bloomberg Crypto, 239 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio for more shows 240 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 241 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions, or 242 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: suggestions for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net. 243 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Vergelina. Our 244 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producers are Mohammed Farouk 245 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: and Sharon Berriro. Our associate producers are Ty Butler and 246 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: Moses on Them. Desta wonder At is our original music 247 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: by Leo Sidron. I'm Stacy, Marie Ishmael. Have a great weekend.